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Poll: Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 9 Discussion


Dec 6, 2014 2:07 PM

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CookingPriest said:
ANGRY2011 said:

So, taken correctly, your complaint is aimed at the earlier eating scene where the status of the students is fully resolved and the motivation to go by the Matou household is planted, as well as the scene showing where Saber sleeps and that Shirou is still not particularly comfortable with it, even though it was a compromise?


Yes.


The first scene is only needed if he actually went to shed to do you know what.

Second scene is utterly pointless.


Ah, ok. So then, the eating scene with Saber explaining how she intends to protect Shirou by sleeping closer is obviously pointless. It doesn't present a solution to the fact that Shirou was just kidnapped in the dead of night because Saber wasn't nearby. Further, showing where she sleeps and Shirou's discomfort with it is also pointless. After all, we should just leave it with a vague "nearby" and weird look from Shirou, which will just leave people wondering what that was about instead of showing them the current arrangements. Or maybe you'd rather Shirou just happily accept, so that people can rain even more "he's building his harem" arguments down on the show.

The next eating scene, which shows that the students will be ok, that school will still happen, and plants the motivation to go to the Matou household is also pointless. There was nothing communicated there.

I'm glad we can see how nothing at all happened and they were useless wastes of space with no value.
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:11 PM

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RinArcher said:
y123y said:
TEAM SHINJI!!!!!!!!


There's no such team as team Shinji

The hell you're talkin about? Shinji is so cool he's obviously his own one-man team!

GO SHINJI-OH!
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Kellhus said:
GuusWayne said:
there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief

And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat.
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:15 PM

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RinArcher said:
y123y said:
TEAM SHINJI!!!!!!!!


There's no such thing as team Shinji



That's too awesome.
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Dec 6, 2014 2:18 PM

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GangstaPriest said:
Me during that Issei scene

SHERLOCK :D
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:22 PM

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Shinji's got a lot going for him. Nobody can dispprove this.



 
Dec 6, 2014 2:29 PM

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haha that stripping scene was kinda funny.
Overall, a pretty good episode
Hi there
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:29 PM

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Shinji's ass is such a cutie



toyall123 said:
GangstaPriest said:
Me during that Issei scene

SHERLOCK :D

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Kellhus said:
GuusWayne said:
there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief

And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat.
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:32 PM
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:35 PM

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So much ass and whipped men this eps 11/5
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:36 PM

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GangstaPriest said:
Shinji's ass is such a cutie




^Not hawt enough for me

 
Dec 6, 2014 2:38 PM

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RinArcher said:
HeisenPriest said:


^Not hawt enough for me



What the hell is that,

my eyes.

*gives mind bleach*

Still, that stripping scene made me ROFL for 5 mins xD
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:40 PM

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Great episode, even without struggles, the development of the story was good and had great scenes of humor, as Shirou undressing Issei

Rin is certainly the best girl, I like his personality and facial expressions


Pity to have to wait until next year to see the continuation, but I hope they finish impressively this season ..
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:49 PM

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To people saying that Ufotable made this with the intention that people already knew about the Fate route, this is the complete WRONG way to make an adaptation. The point is for the adaptation to be able to adapt itself into the new medium and be able to stand on its own two feet without requiring outside knowledge. I shouldn't "have" to read the Fate route in order to get my bearings as to what is going on in this current show.

Think of it this way; what if you're someone who lives in Japan and does indeed have access to this free version of the Fate route. However you come across this series, either on TV, you bought the blu-ray, etc. You started watching/bought it without knowing ANYTHING about Fate or that the Fate route is available for free. Is it really your fault for being ignorant? The show should be able to explain itself to reasonable degree how its world/characters function. Not only that but why must you cross to an entirely different medium just to get said information? What if you just don't like VNs? That would be completely unfair to them.

This is the problem some fans are having in not presenting certain information yet. Now it's still possible for this information to be brought up before a certain event, but I don't think these fears are unfounded.
Modified by Shintai, Dec 6, 2014 2:53 PM
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:52 PM

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Shintai said:
To people saying that Ufotable made this with the intention that people already knew about the Fate route, this is the complete WRONG way to make an adaptation. The point is for the adaptation to be able to adapt itself into the new medium and be able to stand on its own two feet without requiring outside knowledge. I shouldn't "have" to read the Fate route in order to get my bearings as to what is going on in this current show.

Think of it this way; what if you're someone who lives in Japan and does indeed have access to this free version of the Fate route. However you come across this series, either on TV, you bought the blu-ray, etc. Is it really your fault for being ignorant? The show should be able to explain itself to reasonable degree how its world/characters function.

This is the problem some fans are having in not presenting certain information yet. Now it's still possible for this information to be brought up before a certain event, but I don't think these fears are unfounded.


Yep. Agreed.

HF and UBW complementing each other makes sense since both get adapted.

Fate is not adapted.

Assuming someone read the manual before adapting this is BAD.

Hilariously this lacks even the hints and set up that UBW DOES have, which is kind of the problem too.
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:54 PM

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All those Shinji haters.
You all are just jealous because he's best boy:
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:55 PM

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Well if you make a 1:1 standalone adaptation of UBW route without Fate it's not gonna work without at least a few changes.

This is why the FSN series translates weirdly into anime, the routes depend so much on each other.
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:56 PM

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BotatoPriest said:
All those Shinji haters.
You all are just jealous because he's best boy:


Shinji best master. He seems to be the only master who seems to care about winning the tournament
 
Dec 6, 2014 2:57 PM
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A much better episode than last week and I have to ask. WHY IS THERE NO ISSEI ROUTE????
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:00 PM

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WrongPriest said:
Well if you make a 1:1 standalone adaptation of UBW route without Fate it's not gonna work without at least a few changes.

This is why the FSN series translates weirdly into anime, the routes depend so much on each other.


Its strange because ufotable MADE those changes to some things that do note even matter, while not making changes for things that are huge for this route.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:00 PM

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Found this episode a little boring.
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:01 PM

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Fai always overreact at everything so i'm not surprised.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:03 PM

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WrongPriest said:
Well if you make a 1:1 standalone adaptation of UBW route without Fate it's not gonna work without at least a few changes.

This is why the FSN series translates weirdly into anime, the routes depend so much on each other.




Go to 4:02

I feel like this girl gives a pretty solid interpretation of how the adaptation works. Furthermore, her points about how the routes interact is excellent.
No matter where you start, as long as you see everything, you'll end up seeing just how intricate the holy grail war is. The worst thing you can do is to limit yourself to portions of the story because you'll only be able to see few pieces.

I feel like we're putting too much stress on what should be shown and in what order. It's like the Star Wars chronology debate (IV-VI, II-III of course.) The most important thing for people introducing outsiders to the series is that they get hooked, because they end up learning everything eventually anyways.


 
Dec 6, 2014 3:03 PM

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RinArcher said:
Z4k said:
A much better episode than last week and I have to ask. WHY IS THERE NO ISSEI ROUTE????


It exists.

it's unfair that there is an Issei route (With asking instead of forcing) but no Ayako route :(
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:08 PM

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RinArcher said:


Yeah, I'm pretty sure by the time Heavens Feel is all out, everyone will know mostly everything important you need to know about the fifth Holy Grail War that what we're arguing about right now wouldn't really matter.

UBW is only like 1/3rd of Fate, so we still gotta get to HF which will then equate to most people knowing 2/3rd of Fate.

Then hopefully after all that's done, Ufo will make a Fate Route and we can get to Ataraxia after that.
But then where is Mahoyo? :"(
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:08 PM

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GangstaPriest said:

toyall123 said:

SHERLOCK :D

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Dec 6, 2014 3:09 PM

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Someone did not just go "watching this out of order is totally alright you guys"....


whatever. Not gonna bother in ep thread with b aits.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:11 PM

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CookingPriest said:
Someone did not just go "watching this out of order is totally alright you guys"....


whatever. Not gonna bother in ep thread with b aits.


You're right. It's just an anime. It just doesn't matter.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:20 PM

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fst said:
CookingPriest said:
Someone did not just go "watching this out of order is totally alright you guys"....


whatever. Not gonna bother in ep thread with b aits.


You're right. It's just an anime. It just doesn't matter.


"just an anime"...... Ouch..... that hurts....
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:20 PM

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CookingPriest said:
Someone did not just go "watching this out of order is totally alright you guys"....


whatever. Not gonna bother in ep thread with b aits.


Yea, what? It's almost like the VN had an update that allowed you to go into any route you wanted first, but we all know that you can only do it one way! And if you do it any other way, it is totally wrong!

It isn't like the routes all contain differences from each other that can be enjoyed as setups, explanations, or interplay between them if you do it wrong! If you don't do it that way YOUR EXPERIENCE WILL DIFFER FROM MINE.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:30 PM

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ANGRY2011 said:
CookingPriest said:
Someone did not just go "watching this out of order is totally alright you guys"....


whatever. Not gonna bother in ep thread with b aits.


Yea, what? It's almost like the VN had an update that allowed you to go into any route you wanted first, but we all know that you can only do it one way! And if you do it any other way, it is totally wrong!

It isn't like the routes all contain differences from each other that can be enjoyed as setups, explanations, or interplay between them if you do it wrong! If you don't do it that way YOUR EXPERIENCE WILL DIFFER FROM MINE.
An update that is no longer for sale. It was made that way to make more money, obviously, and that didn't work out. And just so you know, the latest update has locked the order again.

Of course there's an actual order to this for FSN and of course you can start with the third route first for all you care, but no, you actually shouldn't.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:34 PM

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ANGRY2011 said:

Yea, what? It's almost like the VN had an update that allowed you to go into any route you wanted first, but we all know that you can only do it one way! And if you do it any other way, it is totally wrong!

It isn't like the routes all contain differences from each other that can be enjoyed as setups, explanations, or interplay between them if you do it wrong! If you don't do it that way YOUR EXPERIENCE WILL DIFFER FROM MINE.


ARE YOU SERIOUSLY ARGUING THAT BULLSHIT NOW?

The decision to change that for re-release was dumb

I do not need my literature degree to know whyt hat was dumb.

Fate is the start
UBW is the middle
HF is the fucking epilogue
Are you seriously going to try to argue the info transfer from route to route now? SERIOUSLY

Fate dumps all the info you need for introduction
UBW builds off of that
HF assumes you know both FAte and UBW stuff.
FACT.

stop baiting.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:36 PM
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Haha Shirou nice idea of stripping Issei xD

5/5
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:37 PM

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Look at the interaction between Rin and Archer. That looks like it would be really fun to watch. I dont know why the two of them barely have any scenes together.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:37 PM

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RinArcher said:




I am hopeful for that

having it be turned into a chekov's gun that is set up in the same episode is still better than an asspull.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:38 PM

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CorePriest said:
ANGRY2011 said:


Yea, what? It's almost like the VN had an update that allowed you to go into any route you wanted first, but we all know that you can only do it one way! And if you do it any other way, it is totally wrong!

It isn't like the routes all contain differences from each other that can be enjoyed as setups, explanations, or interplay between them if you do it wrong! If you don't do it that way YOUR EXPERIENCE WILL DIFFER FROM MINE.
An update that is no longer for sale. It was made that way to make more money, obviously, and that didn't work out. Of course there's an order to this for FSN and of course I can start with Higurashi's answer arcs before the question arcs, but no, I actually shouldn't.


Well, I can't argue against the fact that it isn't for sale any longer. I can ask if you know the reason why it didn't sell more though. There's not necessarily any causation there.

Putting aside the semantics and nitpickings though, the meat of the issue has more to do with what SwordHand is talking about.

SwordHand said:
I feel like we're putting too much stress on what should be shown and in what order. It's like the Star Wars chronology debate (IV-VI, II-III of course.) The most important thing for people introducing outsiders to the series is that they get hooked, because they end up learning everything eventually anyways.


I'm hesitant to call any particular consumer's viewing order wrong. If they completed everything, and enjoyed it, I find it hard to call their experience wrong.

There are definitely starting points which make understanding the world easier than others, with Fate being the obvious example in comparison to UBW and HF. That's generally the reason it is put as the first of the order, because we assume that ease of understanding and world-building are some of the key traits for newcomers, and I'd agree with it. But I don't think it makes anyone else's experience wrong if they do it differently and still learn all the pertinent information and understand it.

This is, of course, not a popular opinion around here, especially since one can see how it can easily be transplanted into saying that starting with F/Z before F/SN isn't wrong necessarily. And we know how that opinion flies around here.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:40 PM

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ANGRY2011 said:
CorePriest said:
An update that is no longer for sale. It was made that way to make more money, obviously, and that didn't work out. Of course there's an order to this for FSN and of course I can start with Higurashi's answer arcs before the question arcs, but no, I actually shouldn't.


Well, I can't argue against the fact that it isn't for sale any longer. I can ask if you know the reason why it didn't sell more though. There's not necessarily any causation there.

Putting aside the semantics and nitpickings though, the meat of the issue has more to do with what SwordHand is talking about.

SwordHand said:
I feel like we're putting too much stress on what should be shown and in what order. It's like the Star Wars chronology debate (IV-VI, II-III of course.) The most important thing for people introducing outsiders to the series is that they get hooked, because they end up learning everything eventually anyways.


I'm hesitant to call any particular consumer's viewing order wrong. If they completed everything, and enjoyed it, I find it hard to call their experience wrong.

There are definitely starting points which make understanding the world easier than others, with Fate being the obvious example in comparison to UBW and HF. That's generally the reason it is put as the first of the order, because we assume that ease of understanding and world-building are some of the key traits for newcomers, and I'd agree with it. But I don't think it makes anyone else's experience wrong if they do it differently and still learn all the pertinent information and understand it.

This is, of course, not a popular opinion around here, especially since one can see how it can easily be transplanted into saying that starting with F/Z before F/SN isn't wrong necessarily. And we know how that opinion flies around here.


You are free to start with Carnival Phantasm, go to UBW 2010 movie, then to second season of Zero and then to DEENFSN then.

#ALLORDERSRIGHT
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:43 PM

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When did anyone give two fucks about my approval on how to enjoy themselves?

Never

So why should anybody care about yours?


 
Dec 6, 2014 3:44 PM

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I like to watch the episode backwards
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:46 PM

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SwordHand said:
When did anyone give two fucks about my approval on how to enjoy themselves?

Never

So why should anybody care about yours?


Because mine is backed up by facts source material, author and fucking RULES OF NARRATIVE WRITING? and yours by pure speculation?

If you are still confused about watching order, please do check the pinned faq. Its not that hard.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:48 PM

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I have no intention to deal with another "FZ/FSN first" debate, as I made clear several times how I see it. Whenever someone asked where they should start, I recommended people to go with the intended order. I don't care if they actually do that and I can see that following the chronological order can also be a unique and enjoyable experience. I tell them that too. And I tell them that not all routes have been adapted yet and it would take a while until HF is done, so they might just as well watch FZ after UBW, or vice versa, if they can't wait.

What made me respond is your post with the route order. The PC 2012 version was sold for a while as three separate games. Each one costing as much as the entire FSN VN (and FHA) package before. I don't know exactly why it's been taken off, but even I see that this was a total ripoff. I can just as well, if I possess the Vita, buy the superior latest Realta Nua update for the PSVita, which btw locked the routes again, so I would have to play it in the actual order.

Edit: So many posts already posted since I responded? Man.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:48 PM

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Shintai said:

Think of it this way; what if you're someone who lives in Japan and does indeed have access to this free version of the Fate route. However you come across this series, either on TV, you bought the blu-ray, etc. You started watching/bought it without knowing ANYTHING about Fate or that the Fate route is available for free.


That wouldn't happen when it comes to BD. BD and DVDs are sold for a niche markets of otakus. They are very expensive stuff, cost hundreds of dollars for a single volume comprised of 2 to 4 episode. The people who buy BDs are those who are already big fans of the source material.

I do agree with criticizing the show as a standalone version if it was meant to be that way. UBW in the source material was never meant to be a standalone. It was unlocked after completing the first route. So expecting that the producers of the show intended this to be viewed by newcomers is a little too much to ask for.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:50 PM
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Pretty relaxed episode, seems like something bigger will happen next episode. Rin was quite the tsundere this episode, very cute. The stripping scene was the highlight of the episode, I kinda shit Shirou x Issei now lol. Can't help but feel he really is Caster's master though..

I wonder who Shinji's new servant will be, although he really doesn't deserve to be a master. I also want to know what's up with that blonde guy that was standing outside Sakura's house. Hopefully we find out soon!
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:50 PM

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WrongPriest said:
Well if you make a 1:1 standalone adaptation of UBW route without Fate it's not gonna work without at least a few changes.

This is why the FSN series translates weirdly into anime, the routes depend so much on each other.


The fate route doesn't need anything from the other routes.
 
Dec 6, 2014 3:54 PM

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Kolios said:
WrongPriest said:
Well if you make a 1:1 standalone adaptation of UBW route without Fate it's not gonna work without at least a few changes.

This is why the FSN series translates weirdly into anime, the routes depend so much on each other.


The fate route doesn't need anything from the other routes.


But it is 100% just set up and foreshadowing. Nothing else. No real pay off. Yes it needs other routes.
 
Dec 6, 2014 4:02 PM

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CorePriest said:
I have no intention to deal with another "FZ/FSN first" debate, as I made clear several times how I see it. Whenever someone asked where they should start, I recommended people to go with the intended order. I don't care if they actually do that and I can see that following the chronological order can also be a unique and enjoyable experience. I tell them that too. And I tell them that not all routes have been adapted yet and it would take a while until HF is done, so they might just as well watch FZ after UBW, or vice versa, if they can't wait.

What made me respond is your post with the route order. The PC 2012 version was sold for a while as three separate games. Each one costing as much as the entire FSN VN (and FHA) package before. I don't know exactly why it's been taken off, but even I see that this was a total ripoff. I can just as well, if I possess the Vita, buy the superior latest Realta Nua update for the PSVita, which btw locked the routes again, so I would have to play it in the actual order.

Edit: So many posts already posted since I responded? Man.


Thank you for your response CorePriest. I didn't know they were sold separately for full price. Shady. I can see where you're coming from, then.

CookingPriest said:
SwordHand said:
When did anyone give two fucks about my approval on how to enjoy themselves?

Never

So why should anybody care about yours?


Because mine is backed up by facts source material, author and fucking RULES OF NARRATIVE WRITING? and yours by pure speculation?

If you are still confused about watching order, please do check the pinned faq. Its not that hard.


Thanks for your response too CookingPriest. If we didn't have you to belittle everyone and ramble on about how you can only enjoy entertainment in the way that the God CookingPriest recommends, people wouldn't be able to live their lives.
 
Dec 6, 2014 4:09 PM

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Dec 6, 2014 4:16 PM
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Seeing that I'm one of the people that approached the Fate series and saw F/Z, DEEN s/n, and now this...I was wondering if

 
Dec 6, 2014 4:19 PM

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Modified by SwordHand, Dec 6, 2014 4:26 PM


 
Dec 6, 2014 4:19 PM

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^^That's the point. She doesn't know that person called Emiya Kiritsugu that they described.
 
Dec 6, 2014 4:27 PM

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ANGRY2011 said:
CookingPriest said:


Because mine is backed up by facts source material, author and fucking RULES OF NARRATIVE WRITING? and yours by pure speculation?

If you are still confused about watching order, please do check the pinned faq. Its not that hard.


Thanks for your response too CookingPriest. If we didn't have you to belittle everyone and ramble on about how you can only enjoy entertainment in the way that the God CookingPriest recommends, people wouldn't be able to live their lives.


CookingPriest's criticism adds a lot to the conversation. People always need to hear the opposite view and he doesn't come off as a troll either. I'm going to re-familiarize with the source material now because this anime is leaving important details. And you can't blame secondaries for calling asspull in the next episode.
 
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