DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
jfs said: But Nobu has shown absolutely no signs of favouring Jeanne over Himiko, so Himiko wouldn't jump ship over that belief. And Hideyoshi/Himiko hasn't been teased since episode 14 at all. The only thing that can even remotely be considered a tease was Hideyoshi's concern this episode, and even that's a stretch, it's likely just concern over a friend. It'd be stupid to squander development that's been prominent since episode 3 of the series, especially after this whole "war" thing Himiko has going on with Jeanne. Now more so than ever since if anything, Jeanne seems to be losing that war after demonstrating in this episode that she still can't trust Nobu fully yet. Feelings change, Himiko might realize no matter what she does, nobu will always love jeanne, himiko x saru was teased since ep 14 or even before that, Ichi and caesars death last ep is perfect to give her a new perspective.. Look at ichihime, she seemed to have so much affections for mitsu, and she was crying and sad when she went off to caesar, but in the end, gravely wounded and dying, she used the last bit of her strength to crawl past mitsu towards caesar, not even giving a glance/thought to the person she liked at the beginning, in the end she found true happiness with someone else, and you never know, in their funeral next episode, himiko might just have the realization that its not always your first love that will end up being your soulmate, its not too late, caesar and ichi only interacted properly in episode 14 (ONE episode) and compared to them, Hideyoshi/himiko has already have much more screentime together The affections Ichi displayed for Mitsu don't even come close to those displayed by Himiko for Nobu. Himiko/Hideyoshi may have had more screen time together than Caesar/Ichi but how much of that was the two of them by themselves, conversing properly? hardly any if at all. |
jfs said: Making possibilities for something to develop isn't ship teasing. That convo in ep 14 was a comedic 5 second interaction about Nobu's sandals which actually lessened Himiko's opinion of Hideyoshi. The way it was built up was purely as a platonic relationship.Well there are a few scenes like the one in ep 14 where Hideyoshi and Himiko were arguing about the sandals and nobu popped out and said 'arent you two getting along well' and stuff like that, there were also other moments.., its definitely not romantic yet, but they are certainly making the possibility for it to develop in that direction the way its been built up.. seriously? i think its quite obvious nobu has zero romantic interest in himiko, but he does have for jeanne, like in ep 11 after caesars powerup owned them and she was freaking out, he hugged her to calm her down, and how desperate he was to rescue jeanne after she was kidnapped in ep 14, i know he also cares for himiko, but jeanne is definitely the one nobu has feelings for... its really quite obvious Yeah well its true himiko worships nobu, but the reason she loved him is because of ONE brief meeting in their childhood, so she might get over that and move on when she realizes there is someone else, but maybe youre right, it May not happen, what im saying is that the way the story have been set up, it CAN happen if the writers want it to Hugging someone to calm them down is natural action to take, it doesn't signify Nobu's favouritism. In order for your examples to work, Himiko would have had to be put into similar situations, and Nobu react in different, less desperate ways, but there's nothing to compare it to. I can just as easily bring up Nobu's desperation to save Himiko when she fell off the ship in ep 17. Nobu doesn't treat Jeanne any differently now to how he did in the beginning of the series in terms of normal interaction, would you have said he had feelings for her then? He's shown no obvious romantic feelings for either of them. He wouldn't have been so quick to shove Jeanne out of the way in this episode if he did harbour these obvious feelings for her. The fact that it was one meeting in their childhood has no relevance to the scope of Himiko's feelings. That's like saying she's basing all of how she feels on that one meeting and disregarding everything that's happened in the years between, which is obviously not the case. Hideyoshi may develop some kind of feelings for Himiko in the last 3 episodes, but if that does happen then they won't be reciprocated. Not if the writers have any sense. |
| Well holy fuck. So much happened O.o Caesar is dead... Meh. I had wanted him to die a long time ago, then they made him more likable. Just not enough for me to care so his death was uhh... Well basically I don't care much whether he lived or died. So Ichihime kicked the bucket too.. Poor Nobunaga lost his whole family, and one of his best friends is showing signs that he'll betray him. But hey, best thing that happened this episode, was the DEATH OF THOSE FUCKING TWINS!!! Automatic 11/10 for this episode. Fucking finally. |
 |
jfs said: Just because they didn't meet doesn't mean she didn't think about him, monitor him, observe his accomplishments etc. You don't always have to be with someone for your affections for them to grow, being apart from them often has the same affect. This was likely the case, since she showed that she was willing to die for him in ep 6. And that's not mentioning all that's happened from her introduction until now.The years that passed in between, she never met him again.. so her love for him and desire to marry him only comes from that ONE childhood memory Well like i said it was NEVER romantic between them yet, but they are given platonic interactions in such a way that slowly grew, with ep 20 having him putting a blanket over her and she smiled in her sleep and last ep having him worry about her, when he worries for her she replied 'you.....' , her opinions of him can and probably will change (next ep preview has him holding her hand), as i said, the potential is there... And idk how to explain unless you rewatch the show, its clear that jeanne will win and that nobu has feelings for her.... Since when does the writers of this show have any sense? None of the interactions you mentioned are ship teases though, that's my point. In order for there to have been an adequate build up to a potential romantic relationship, there needs to have been ship teases, the romantic interactions ranging from subtle to obvious, and between Hideyoshi and Himiko, there have been none. There my be some in the following episodes but by then it'd be too late. You can't just say it's clear this will happen or that this is the case, and then tell me to re-watch the show because you're unable to support your claims. If anything, I'd say it's more likely that there's going to be no resolution between the three of them, because Nobu has never once expressed romantic affections for either of them, both in his words and even in his head, and that's a fact. The only thing Jeanne has going for her is that she's the main girl, that's it. I'm obviously not saying it's impossible, but in terms of interactions it's anything but clear. You don't think the writers have ever had any sense in the show? So you don't agree with anything that's happened thus far? Including Ichi choosing Caesar over Mitsu? I somehow find that hard to believe. |
jfs said: That sounds really stalkersih.. but i guess she might do that Ichi x caesar makes more sense than most other things, but even they lack interactions, and even ichi liking mitsu was NEVER hinted (her attitude to him was platonic) until she threw herself at him in ep 9... so like i said its never too late to do something at the last minute, its not like they have to make a true relationship between them by the end.. When i said this show doesnt really make sense.. well julius caesar x oichi, julius caesar wielding excalibur, and charlemange x (female) hannibal can happen, then nothing is too ridiculous in this show Like i said although it wasnt explicit, its still quite obvious, even in ep 15 when they rescued jeanne and mitsu was like 'are you sure its not ranmaru herself that you need?' and himiko had a very sad expression, and again later in the episode, its nothing explicit but theres enough, im not going to list all of it-_- like i sid its just my intepretation of the relationships,it may or not be right, but for me the hints are there BTW i dont care for who nobu ends up with, i only care about caesar x ichi (you might have noticed it by now).. so im being quite objective here...i just cant imagine why else they gave all the hideyoshi x himiko moments (platonic interactions, then her saving his life, him putting blanket over her, him worrying about her, him holding her hands next ep) unless something will happen between them (so really im neutral on who nobu ends up with, but im sure its jeanne You said it yourself, Mitsu and Ichi's development began in episode 9 when there was still plenty of time. This potential Hideyoshi/Himiko pairing would be last minute, and would be the epitome of a forced relationship if it were to happen. Even if they don't become official, if Himiko reciprocates, with their microscopic interaction, then that's just fake considering the scale of her devotion to Nobu. Hideyoshi developing last minute feelings for her if fine. Himiko reciprocating is not. Himiko even said while she was healing Hideyoshi, that for the sake of Nobu, she wouldn't let his right hand man die. She healed him for Nobu's sake, that was her primary motivation. She wasn't determined to heal him because he was Hideyoshi, it was because he was Nobu's right hand man. Of course she'd also want to heal her comrade, but that came second. I guess the definition of "making sense" changes depending on whether we're referring to the plot or the character interactions/relationships, or even the historical accuracy. The plot can get rather off the walls, but the relations between the characters are believable. If its just you're interpretation, that's fine, we can leave it at that. Nobu and Jeanne obviously have had their moments, and I'm sure most people (myself included) would argue that if Nobu were to end up with anyone, it'd be Jeanne. I only took issue with you saying that from these moments, it's clear that Nobu reciprocates her feelings and they'll end up together, because it's not. Nobu has had similar moments with Himiko, and treats both girls no differently from the beginning of the series.. |
jfs said: Because at that point, Ichi wasn't harbouring a very deep, unwavering love for someone else. If Ichi had deeply loved Da Vinci for instance, for many years, then suddenly threw herself at Mitsu, then there would be an issue, but that wasn't the case with Ichi/Mitsu. Ichi wasn't in love with anyone else, whereas Himiko is, and has been for a very long time. That's the difference between Mitsu/Ichi and Himiko/Hideyoshi, and it's a very significant difference.Youre sort of missing the point, which is that up to episode 9, Ichi only showed platonic interactions with mitsu, and then in ep 9, out of nowhere she throws herself at him... so theoritically why cant the same happen for himiko? jfs said: Yes, Nobu and Jeanne have had deep conversations, so have Nobu and Himiko. They had one in ep 17 concerning his worries over Mitsu and Caesar. To say that this is what "clearly" demonstrates a higher emotional connection with Jeanne just isn't right. That'd be like me saying every time Nobu has said blunt/unkind things and has acted physically aggressive towards Jeanne is a sign that he isn't emotionally connected to her at all. Not true is it?And the thing about Jeanne and himiko is, you can see who nobu trusts/relies on more emotionally, its jeanne, see ep 16 after he rescued her he confided to her about his fears and nightmares about killing lots of people which he never did to anyone else, there is just this emotional connection between nobu and jeanne that isnt there with himiko... i guess its what you call chemistry or something (like in ep 14 caesar x ichi showed much more chemistry than there ever was between her and mitsu) Im not saying nobu doesnt care about himiko, he clearly sees her as someone important, but jeanne is clearly the one he is more emotionally reliant on... it doesnt help himikos case that ranmaru historically was said to be nobunagas lover jfs said: I never said that you said Hideyoshi/Himiko WILL happen, I just gave justifications as to why it shouldn't happen. My issue was with you saying that the Nobu/Jeanne moments were "clear" indications of Nobu favouring Jeanne, because they aren't. Also, the 3 examples you give of Hideyoshi/Himiko all indicate potential feelings on Hideyoshi's part, which as I said, is not what I'm concerned with. The issue is if Himiko somehow reciprocates. Besides, I think you tend to look too deeply into things. Do you really think putting a blanket over someone who is extremely ill is a clear sign of romantic affection? Under the circumstances it really shouldn't be.Im not saying saru x himiko WILL happen, im just saying that the way the last few episodes went, and the way the final 3 is set up, it CAN happen if they want it.. think about it Ep 20- Saru puts blanket over himiko Ep 21-Saru Worries for her safety openly and seemed embarassed doing it Ep 22- Preview has Saru holding her hand for some reason I just cant believe all these scenes wont serve a higher purpose to develop their relationship |
Madara31Jun 3, 2014 5:44 PM
jfs said: I also said this previously, but the affection Ichi displayed for Mitsu is nothing compared to that of Himiko for Nobu. It wasn't clear if Ichi was actually in love with Mitsu at any point, but it is very clear that Himiko is very much in love with Nobu. Furthermore, Ichi had plenty of time to develop feelings for Caesar, while having an uncertain degree of feelings for Mitsu. Whereas Himiko would have 3 episodes to to get over an undying love that she's nurtured for years. Like I said I'm not saying it's impossible, it just shouldn't happen because that would be the most forced, inauthentic pairing ever.I get what you mean, but we are supposed to believe Ichi liked mitsu so much, and yet she fell for caesar hard despite their lack of interactions (only ONE episode, in spite of the previous ep 13 she was obviously sad to leave mitsu and go to him), so its POSSIBLE that they might make it at least POSSIBLE at the end that himiko and saru hass a chance.. you are comparing himiko and nobu worrying about 2 different people, and nobu sharing with jeanne his own personal fears and insecurities about his past life being a man who liked destruction and death etc etc for the first time, which he never did with anyone else Seems like you are misunderstanding me, i didnt mean that Saru has feelings for himiko yet, i meant that what the writers are trying to do.. look, saru and himiko in the series have a number of platonic interactions more than between any other 2 otherwise unrelated cast , such as Mitsu and jeanne or Mitsu and himiko.. I guess what im trying to say here is that the writers went out of their way to give us multiple so called 'saru x himiko' moments, and i cant imagine it WONT serve a higher purpose later in the story, at the very least like i said, himiko might get kidnapped and saru will rescue her (just a POSSIBLE thought), what happens from here, whether it remains platonic or a romance will develop, its up to the writers, but if it turns out that saru x himiko ended up being hinted or becomes canon, i can buy into it and at least it would be somewhat believable for me Why does it matter if they were worrying over two different people, one of whom has been by Nobu's side for years? I'll admit that out of the two conversations, the Nobu/Jeanne one was deeper, but my point is that these sort of things only add to the implications, and don't give a clear indication of anything, because Nobu/Jeanne and Nobu/Himiko have each had a comparable number of implications and ship teases that could lead to a potential pairing. If the numbers weren't comparable, then there'd be a clear indication. Da Vinci has had FAR more platonic and one on one interactions with with Jeanne (and I'd say Himiko too), than Hideyoshi has had with Himiko. But that doesn't mean anything does it? I really do think I get what you're trying to say, that the minuscule interactions between Hideyoshi and Himiko create the possibility for a potential pairing at the end, and you're right, they do. But that wasn't what I had an issue with. My issue is that I just really don't think it'd be believable, given the small amount of time remaining for development, and the sheer depth of Himiko's feelings for Nobu, I don't think it'd be a good idea. But hey, if you have no problem with it that's perfectly fine. I've given my justifications as to why it shouldn't happen, but that's just my opinion. |
Madara31Jun 3, 2014 6:43 PM
jfs said: But prior to this episode, that was pretty much the only 'heartwarming' interaction between the two of them, and was one of around maybe 3 direct interactions in total. Another one was with Nobu's sandal and that was anything but heartwarming. Conversely, Da Vinci's many interactions with Jeanne have had a sort of 'understanding' feel to them, as he gives her advice to better understand herself and others, and on which course of action to take for future endeavours. This could have also built up to a potential pairing, but they didn't.what you said (da vinci x jeanne) interactions, is different from himiko and sarus, himiko and saru e.g when he put the blanket over her, had a sort of 'heartwarming' feel to it rather than just da vinci explaining stuff to jeanne or anyone else jfs said: Yeah that's true. If Nobu and Jeanne do get together, then a possible scenario may be one where Hideyoshi has feelings for Himiko, and Himiko struggles to let go of Nobu while hinting that the possibility of maybe something happening between the two of them sometime in the future isn't completely off the table. That'd be acceptable. But anything where Himiko shows even the slightest signs of romantic affection for Hideyoshi shouldn't happen in my opinion.But as far as how beliaveable the himiko saru pairing is, it depends on what happens, like i said next ep they seem to have a moment together, if, for example, himiko gets kidnapped and saru desperately rescues her or something like that, i might believe that, at the end of the series, there are hints her feelings is changing, ESPECIALLY if nobu and jeanne becomes canon at the end But we're both kinda jumping the gun here, lets wait and see what actually happens. Hideyoshi may not even have feelings for Himiko, which was my initial impression. Himiko may not even survive until the end, which I really hope doesn't happen. |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Nobunaga the Fool Episode 14 Discussion ( 1 2 )Stark700 - Apr 13, 2014 |
98 |
by Vindicater
»»
Jul 16, 2023 5:00 AM |
|
Poll: » Nobunaga the Fool Episode 5 Discussion ( 1 2 )Stark700 - Feb 2, 2014 |
76 |
by Dobko
»»
Aug 25, 2022 3:53 PM |
|
Poll: » Nobunaga the Fool Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 )Stark700 - Jan 26, 2014 |
79 |
by Dobko
»»
Aug 24, 2022 4:37 PM |
|
Poll: » Nobunaga the Fool Episode 3 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - Jan 19, 2014 |
105 |
by Dobko
»»
Aug 24, 2022 4:10 PM |
|
Poll: » Nobunaga the Fool Episode 2 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - Jan 12, 2014 |
133 |
by Dobko
»»
Aug 23, 2022 5:55 PM |