Accel World (light novel)
mikozee said: Really? Your favorite anime has people cutting each other up. I think that's way less healthy of a lifestyle than being a little chubby. You're favorite anime is encourage people to disregard the law and start cutting people up with a katana.If we were to see a real life equivalent to him, he would be unhealthy and obese. It's one thing to encourage being happy with who you are, but it's another to encourage a clearly unhealthy lifestyle. By having a main character that's obviously not healthy, it encourages the audience that that sort of lifestyle is acceptable, when it's not. Being at an unhealthy weight (over or under-weight) is bad. I'm not saying every fucking character has to be the epitome of human beauty, but it wouldn't have killed the creators to make a character who's at least healthy looking. |
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mikozee said: If we were to see a real life equivalent to him, he would be unhealthy and obese. It's one thing to encourage being happy with who you are, but it's another to encourage a clearly unhealthy lifestyle. By having a main character that's obviously not healthy, it encourages the audience that that sort of lifestyle is acceptable, when it's not. Being at an unhealthy weight (over or under-weight) is bad. I'm not saying every fucking character has to be the epitome of human beauty, but it wouldn't have killed the creators to make a character who's at least healthy looking. That is so dumb , I don't even... |
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IntroverTurtle said: Really? Your favorite anime has people cutting each other up. I think that's way less healthy of a lifestyle than being a little chubby. You're favorite anime is encourage people to disregard the law and start cutting people up with a katana. The poster asked why people had a problem with him being fat. I stated my personal opinion on why I had a problem with the protagonist being fat. It was a problem dealing exclusively with his body image, not the show itself, nor the subject matters of the show (i.e., Violence). If we're going to bring up other matters of the show into discussion, then I can bring up plenty of other good reasons that "cancel" out the bad parts, such as what the show primarily bases its moral compass around -- Loyalty, friendship, etc., even if it was a bit melodramatic at times. But I'm not. It's pointless to say something that's worse then obesity like violence shadows it, and saying something good nullfies it also doesn't make sense, especially in the context of the question. We're not looking at a balance-scale here. The question was why do people have a problem with the protagonist being fat. My reason? Because it encourages that an obese lifestyle is okay. Accel world is a action adventure sci-fi anime. Chances are, the people who watch it aren't going to care; I certainly didn't. But I was still answering a question with what I viewed as a problem. tsudecimo said: That is so dumb , I don't even... Instead of coming up with a snarky, passive-aggressive condescending remark, at least have the decency to reply with something discussable. Posting a cheap one-liner just gives me the impression you're close-minded. You clearly disagree. I don't discourage discussion. However, let me preemptively write that if you're going to reply saying that my post was so dumb that it's a waste of your time to reply, than please don't reply at all, as it's a waste of my time as well, and spare us both a few minutes of our busy lives. Good day to you. |
mikozee said: The question was why do people have a problem with the protagonist being fat. My reason? Because it encourages that an obese lifestyle is okay. Accel world is a action adventure sci-fi anime. Chances are, the people who watch it aren't going to care; I certainly didn't. But I was still answering a question with what I viewed as a problem. I agree with you there. Its a fact that some humans look into an anime character as an idol, making it as a reference on real life identity. So, giving a bad example, like a stupidly looking fat protagonist, that will really affect humanity. |
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| Some people don't like fat characters but I personally don't really mind. Although he does act like a cowardly pig at times, he shows some character development. |
| I wish he were fatter and shorter. Basically just like a little Cartman. That would be fun. I'd enjoy that. And all the other characters have to push him around in a cart. |
| I don't care about him being fat, I care about him being a whiny bitch. I understand that it's justified to him to act that way regarding how he grew up, but he pisses me off. |
MinagatachiSep 29, 2013 8:29 PM
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| I don't have anything with the protagonist being fat... I have something with him being fat but still somehow getting a harem! WTF was the author think when making him a chick magnet?! Damn you, Reki Kawahara! |
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| I've never seen a fat MC but I prefer action anime so they wouldn't be able to do much. Just doesn't make sense. |
WalkingMisery said: I've never seen a fat MC but I prefer action anime so they wouldn't be able to do much. Just doesn't make sense. It's not like they're in a game and shit. Also... Being fat doesn't mean you can't be fast or have strength/muscles. Fat has little to do with muscle and flexibility, it's all about being fat AND not exercising, that's where the problem lies. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: It's hard to be fast when you're fat and what type of fat are you thinking? I'm thinking fat fat, not someone that has fat.WalkingMisery said: I've never seen a fat MC but I prefer action anime so they wouldn't be able to do much. Just doesn't make sense. It's not like they're in a game and shit. Also... Being fat doesn't mean you can't be fast or have strength/muscles. Fat has little to do with muscle and flexibility, it's all about being fat AND not exercising, that's where the problem lies. You most likely wouldn't be fat if you exercised and fat people usually have health problems and etc. A fat person jumping around, running, and doing other athletic stuff just isn't realistic. For a person of average fitness this can be hard so I doubt a fat person could. |
| While I prefer the MC's not to look like parody characters (those eyes..) in a non parody anime, I mainly hate him for whining and being weak for most of the show. |
WalkingMisery said: Immahnoob said: It's hard to be fast when you're fat and what type of fat are you thinking? I'm thinking fat fat, not someone that has fat.WalkingMisery said: I've never seen a fat MC but I prefer action anime so they wouldn't be able to do much. Just doesn't make sense. It's not like they're in a game and shit. Also... Being fat doesn't mean you can't be fast or have strength/muscles. Fat has little to do with muscle and flexibility, it's all about being fat AND not exercising, that's where the problem lies. You most likely wouldn't be fat if you exercised and fat people usually have health problems and etc. A fat person jumping around, running, and doing other athletic stuff just isn't realistic. For a person of average fitness this can be hard so I doubt a fat person could. You're wrong, think of roman gladiators, roman legionnaires, sumo wrestlers, think of other fighters that are actually really fat, like Butterbean, James Toney, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_exercise Fat people can be agile because they rely on fast twitch anaerobic muscles. Give them a quick burst of speed and they'll become Juggernauts. So, if you have no idea what you're talking about, don't talk at all, thanks. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: Sorry but I don't see sumo wrestlers running alot. They may be strong, but they are NOT in good shape.WalkingMisery said: Immahnoob said: It's hard to be fast when you're fat and what type of fat are you thinking? I'm thinking fat fat, not someone that has fat.WalkingMisery said: I've never seen a fat MC but I prefer action anime so they wouldn't be able to do much. Just doesn't make sense. It's not like they're in a game and shit. Also... Being fat doesn't mean you can't be fast or have strength/muscles. Fat has little to do with muscle and flexibility, it's all about being fat AND not exercising, that's where the problem lies. You most likely wouldn't be fat if you exercised and fat people usually have health problems and etc. A fat person jumping around, running, and doing other athletic stuff just isn't realistic. For a person of average fitness this can be hard so I doubt a fat person could. You're wrong, think of roman gladiators, roman legionnaires, sumo wrestlers, think of other fighters that are actually really fat, like Butterbean, James Toney, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_exercise Fat people can be agile because they rely on fast twitch anaerobic muscles. Give them a quick burst of speed and they'll become Juggernauts. So, if you have no idea what you're talking about, don't talk at all, thanks. And roman gladiators weren't fat, they were big. There is a difference. Fat people can be flexible and agile (I never said they couldn't be), but most don't have endurance. Endurance is really important when it comes to fighting if you didn't know. I don't want to watch a show where some fat guy has to keep taking breaks in between his "quick burst of speed". |
| Because people are so judgmental. |
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WalkingMisery said: Immahnoob said: Sorry but I don't see sumo wrestlers running alot. They may be strong, but they are NOT in good shape.WalkingMisery said: Immahnoob said: It's hard to be fast when you're fat and what type of fat are you thinking? I'm thinking fat fat, not someone that has fat.WalkingMisery said: I've never seen a fat MC but I prefer action anime so they wouldn't be able to do much. Just doesn't make sense. It's not like they're in a game and shit. Also... Being fat doesn't mean you can't be fast or have strength/muscles. Fat has little to do with muscle and flexibility, it's all about being fat AND not exercising, that's where the problem lies. You most likely wouldn't be fat if you exercised and fat people usually have health problems and etc. A fat person jumping around, running, and doing other athletic stuff just isn't realistic. For a person of average fitness this can be hard so I doubt a fat person could. You're wrong, think of roman gladiators, roman legionnaires, sumo wrestlers, think of other fighters that are actually really fat, like Butterbean, James Toney, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_exercise Fat people can be agile because they rely on fast twitch anaerobic muscles. Give them a quick burst of speed and they'll become Juggernauts. So, if you have no idea what you're talking about, don't talk at all, thanks. And roman gladiators weren't fat, they were big. There is a difference. Fat people can be flexible and agile (I never said they couldn't be), but most don't have endurance. Endurance is really important when it comes to fighting if you didn't know. I don't want to watch a show where some fat guy has to keep taking breaks in between his "quick burst of speed". As I was saying, your lack of knowledge is astonishing. http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1002/ajhb.1310060509?locale=en Sumo wrestlers had a significantly greater FFM than bodybuilders, who had a greater FFM than the untrained men. Six of the wrestlers had more than 100 kg of FFM, including the largest one of 121.3 kg (stature: 186 cm, mass: 181 kg, %fat: 33.0%). The FFM/stature ratio of elite Sumo wrestlers averaged at 0.61 kg/cm, with the highest 0.66 kg/cm. This is the first. http://outofthiscentury.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/fat-gladiators-modern-misconceptions-regarding-the-dietary-practices-of-swordsmen-of-the-ancient-roman-arena/ That's two. Muscle implies endurance too, that's three. Example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm07iPOl4ko You don't have to, I was talking in general, in Accel World they're playing a game, you won't see him get out of breath anyway. And this is four. So, 4 out of 4 points were countered. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| Gotta love how everybody whines about male leads being bland and generic-looking for the purposes of audience self-insertion, but the instant one breaks the mold by having a different body type, people fall all over themselves to condemn him. Kind of like the complainers about shy/indecisive/asexual harem leads getting all riled up about Makoto Itou of School Days actually getting some action. |
| Protagonist looks ridiculous from the first glance, one episode through - his actions prove the aforementioned thoughts. No point denying this. Calling him a dwarf would be a great insult to the dwarves themselves. More likely an adaptation of Kolobok (search this one), but a depressing and annoying, and (specifically!) whining one. |
Tienz said: Zalis said: Gotta love how everybody whines about male leads being bland and generic-looking for the purposes of audience self-insertion, but the instant one breaks the mold by having a different body type, people fall all over themselves to condemn him. Kind of like the complainers about shy/indecisive/asexual harem leads getting all riled up about Makoto Itou of School Days actually getting some action. He's just too much of a caricature. Absurdly short to the point of ridiculousness, a personality that emanates weakness and that of a doormat without some compensating intelligence or wit. He just possesses a lot of characteristics we don't like in people and combine that with his relationship with a bit of a marysue and it breaks a bit of the immersion. Gradually he gains some grit which kinda turns people's head to him but he still has that horrible dependence on others for value. I guess it's that he's not a hero who we can see potential in who then faces a challenge/burden and then we need to see him over come it. He's coming in with so much luggage that he's simply pathetic. The absurdly small and fat stature combined with the pig really never let him advance. He could be short. He could be tubby but it would be nice to see him look dignified. He's just too pathetic. And it's not helped by the other archetypal designs. edit: Maybe I just hate how he cries every instant. Auron pond 1-12-13 best sums up the problem with the character. He's smarter and braver than you give him credit for. Shit, the whole training with a gun should have clued you in. He deduced Noumi's method of hiding. He figured out Chrome Disasters "flying" and defeated it single-handily. He's grown in strength from his own determination. What people don't really understand, is what effects seeing your parents argue and divorce, and then being bullied for a long time, has on you. That isn't something you get over. Much like depression or any other mental disease, it takes a long time to move past, even with a support system. If Haru was cured of that in the span of a couple of episodes, it wouldn't be realistic. Yet despite that, he still manages to find the strength to stand up and move forward. He only gets stalled for very short periods of time, until he realizes that people are supporting him. Then he gets back up. By the end of the anime, he has grown. If you go on into the light novels, you'd probably not recognize him because he gets so much stronger. He no longer really cries much at all. The anime actually gives a bad impression, because he was vulnerable emotionally early on, and the Noumi arc was particularly rough on him (and yet, he still got strong enough to deliberately not give in to the new bullying or cry from it). Guys hate Haru because they hate seeing someone less worthy, ie fatter and uglier, than them get attractive girls. It doesn't feel right to them. It's the whole Alpha male syndrome. It should be noted that every girl I've introduced AW to, has *loved* Haru. One of them loved him the first moment they saw him, from a random episode that she happened to walk by and see. It's only ever been guys that I've seen dislike Haru, which should tell you something. Girls like that he's more emotional; spending enough time around women, and you'll realize that they'd like guys to be more in touch with their emotions. And no, he doesn't cry at every instant. Most of the times he does, are at legitimately sad moments: such as Kuroyukihime in the hospital, prospect of losing Chiyu, etc. There is still a big impression among males that it is wrong for a guy to cry, or cry so much. It's a similar societal expectation, that says girls have to look pretty/a certain way, or only act feminine. Although, nowadays, it is a bit more okay for women to act masculine, than it is for a guy to act feminine. Prejudice still exists, sadly. Haru is emotional. Which, given his past history, is very understandable. And he grows slowly out of it, like a realistic human being would. To expect anything else, is to not understand his trauma, and to have unrealistic expectations. And then, we might as well toss everyone else away who has traumas or doesn't conform to our notion of what a human should be. I find that sad. |
| Yes, it does bother me, but the problem doesn't really lie in the fact that he is fat per say. I'm sure this has been stated ad naseum in this thread, but his proportions are so off as to make him seem not even human. To be THAT short and THAT fat is just too much too take. I would be perfectly fine with an overweight protagonist that is correctly proportioned, or a short protagonist as long as it doesn't look like he will have to use a ladder to get up stairs. The final two nails in this characters coffin though are 1. That he is designed as one of the biggest cry babies in all of anime and then 2. Despite all these failings he is still a chick magnet. It's like the producers of this anime are saying that this is how most of their fans are, BUT don't despair because despite the fact you have zero character or looks you can still pull bitches. His character just feels forced. That is the short way to state it. They should have given him at least 1 or 2 redeeming factors instead of trying to create the most pathetic character they could. |
Kaijo said: Tienz said: Zalis said: Gotta love how everybody whines about male leads being bland and generic-looking for the purposes of audience self-insertion, but the instant one breaks the mold by having a different body type, people fall all over themselves to condemn him. Kind of like the complainers about shy/indecisive/asexual harem leads getting all riled up about Makoto Itou of School Days actually getting some action. He's just too much of a caricature. Absurdly short to the point of ridiculousness, a personality that emanates weakness and that of a doormat without some compensating intelligence or wit. He just possesses a lot of characteristics we don't like in people and combine that with his relationship with a bit of a marysue and it breaks a bit of the immersion. Gradually he gains some grit which kinda turns people's head to him but he still has that horrible dependence on others for value. I guess it's that he's not a hero who we can see potential in who then faces a challenge/burden and then we need to see him over come it. He's coming in with so much luggage that he's simply pathetic. The absurdly small and fat stature combined with the pig really never let him advance. He could be short. He could be tubby but it would be nice to see him look dignified. He's just too pathetic. And it's not helped by the other archetypal designs. edit: Maybe I just hate how he cries every instant. Auron pond 1-12-13 best sums up the problem with the character. He's smarter and braver than you give him credit for. Shit, the whole training with a gun should have clued you in. He deduced Noumi's method of hiding. He figured out Chrome Disasters "flying" and defeated it single-handily. He's grown in strength from his own determination. What people don't really understand, is what effects seeing your parents argue and divorce, and then being bullied for a long time, has on you. That isn't something you get over. Much like depression or any other mental disease, it takes a long time to move past, even with a support system. If Haru was cured of that in the span of a couple of episodes, it wouldn't be realistic. Yet despite that, he still manages to find the strength to stand up and move forward. He only gets stalled for very short periods of time, until he realizes that people are supporting him. Then he gets back up. By the end of the anime, he has grown. If you go on into the light novels, you'd probably not recognize him because he gets so much stronger. He no longer really cries much at all. The anime actually gives a bad impression, because he was vulnerable emotionally early on, and the Noumi arc was particularly rough on him (and yet, he still got strong enough to deliberately not give in to the new bullying or cry from it). Guys hate Haru because they hate seeing someone less worthy, ie fatter and uglier, than them get attractive girls. It doesn't feel right to them. It's the whole Alpha male syndrome. It should be noted that every girl I've introduced AW to, has *loved* Haru. One of them loved him the first moment they saw him, from a random episode that she happened to walk by and see. It's only ever been guys that I've seen dislike Haru, which should tell you something. Girls like that he's more emotional; spending enough time around women, and you'll realize that they'd like guys to be more in touch with their emotions. And no, he doesn't cry at every instant. Most of the times he does, are at legitimately sad moments: such as Kuroyukihime in the hospital, prospect of losing Chiyu, etc. There is still a big impression among males that it is wrong for a guy to cry, or cry so much. It's a similar societal expectation, that says girls have to look pretty/a certain way, or only act feminine. Although, nowadays, it is a bit more okay for women to act masculine, than it is for a guy to act feminine. Prejudice still exists, sadly. Haru is emotional. Which, given his past history, is very understandable. And he grows slowly out of it, like a realistic human being would. To expect anything else, is to not understand his trauma, and to have unrealistic expectations. And then, we might as well toss everyone else away who has traumas or doesn't conform to our notion of what a human should be. I find that sad. Sorry but I just don't see how his past is so damned traumatic. Characters like him, just like their real life counterparts, piss me off because generally their life hasn't been that bad. I know I'm not much of one to be used as a litmus test for allowable whininess, but if I can carry myself just fine after losing my dad to an accident at 10, my little brother to brain cancer at 15, one of my best friends to a car crash at 17, and then other traumatic events; I think characters and people like Haru should be able to man up without too much of a complaint. |
| Everyone is different. For instance, the way you dismiss other people's feelings instead of empathizing, would be indicative of past issues. But you mostly coped because you were 10. Haru's issues started when he found his parents arguing, when he was much younger, around 5 or 6 or so. And there is a difference between losing a parent, and having a parent leave because they don't like you anymore. Watching your family being torn apart when you are too young to really understand, is much more traumatic than at age 10. Empathy, would be realizing that. And sounds like you haven't been bullied hard for many years, either. Even if you went through some, again, everyone is different. Trying to tell someone to "just carry it" and "man up" would be like telling someone who suffers from depression to just shake it off. Doing so, showcases a profound lack of understanding. Would you just tell someone suffering from anorexia that they just need to man up and eat regularly? Mental diseases and trauma affect everyone differently. And let me tell you something, from a survivor of bullying myself: It's a downward spiral. Once you get beat up and made fun of regularly, your confidence and self-esteem takes a nosedive and never really recovers. And again, Haru is drawn that way to make him appear more cute. Also, if you can't understand why Haru attracts the women, then you aren't paying attention. He's kind, honest, and most importantly, he's empathetic. Empathy means being able to understand and sympathize with someone else's problems. Also, Kuroyukihime isn't your average teenager, and neither are most of the Burst Linkers. They are much older mentally, and there are different things that attract them. You'll understand when you get old enough to date older women. |
Kaijo said: Everyone is different. For instance, the way you dismiss other people's feelings instead of empathizing, would be indicative of past issues. But you mostly coped because you were 10. Haru's issues started when he found his parents arguing, when he was much younger, around 5 or 6 or so. And there is a difference between losing a parent, and having a parent leave because they don't like you anymore. Watching your family being torn apart when you are too young to really understand, is much more traumatic than at age 10. Empathy, would be realizing that. And sounds like you haven't been bullied hard for many years, either. Even if you went through some, again, everyone is different. Trying to tell someone to "just carry it" and "man up" would be like telling someone who suffers from depression to just shake it off. Doing so, showcases a profound lack of understanding. Would you just tell someone suffering from anorexia that they just need to man up and eat regularly? Mental diseases and trauma affect everyone differently. And let me tell you something, from a survivor of bullying myself: It's a downward spiral. Once you get beat up and made fun of regularly, your confidence and self-esteem takes a nosedive and never really recovers. And again, Haru is drawn that way to make him appear more cute. Also, if you can't understand why Haru attracts the women, then you aren't paying attention. He's kind, honest, and most importantly, he's empathetic. Empathy means being able to understand and sympathize with someone else's problems. Also, Kuroyukihime isn't your average teenager, and neither are most of the Burst Linkers. They are much older mentally, and there are different things that attract them. You'll understand when you get old enough to date older women. I can't believe you really just compared his and my situations. And growing up I went through my fair share of bullying too, even though most looking from the outside in would think I was one of the popular kids. I'm the type of person that never lets someone be left out and cares so much that I put myself on the line too much, so yes I do have trouble emphasizing with this character. I know all anyone would ever want to know about depression. I know about feeling hollow inside but putting on a smile for everyone so that you can cheer them up, even though you feel like shit. I know about that dark downward spiral. Also, I'm not sure if you implied that Haru is dealing with depression or if that was just an allusion, but someone that has ever really been depressed knows that you don't cry all the time. Someone who is depressed doesn't have the energy to cry. So if you were implying he is, I don't believe that he is suffering from depression. I realize why he attracts the "women" (They are girls and nothing more. 15 year olds, a woman is not) in this anime, but if you don't realize how outlandish it is I don't know what to say. The world we live in is very skin deep no matter how mature the girl is. Now, if he had a very attractive personality and his proportions were more in line-- He could still be pretty rotund as long as he was at least of normal height-- I could see him getting this attention, but he does not have enough character for this. Never would a situation like this be even remotely possible with beauties of these girl's caliber. I was really turned away by this; I honestly believe that the producers only made it this way because in every other highschool S.o.L. anime the male protagonist must be loved by every female character that steps onto the screen. I feel like they forced it, and it would take a great deal of banter to convince me otherwise. |
aLooserNov 4, 2013 5:52 PM
aLooser said: I can't believe you really just compared his and my situations. Yes, I did. That is entirely the point. I will restate it for you: "Everyone is different." Got that? If not, I'll say it again: "Everyone is different." If I can't compare the his situation and yours, then you can't either. You can't have it both ways. Pick one. I don't need to do that, because as I said, everyone is different. Everyone handles things differently. And plenty of people struggle with things that you or I might be able to handle more easily. The whole point about depression (and no, not saying Haru has this), was that you can't just tell someone, "Hell, I was sad and unable to cry and get up out of bed once, but I just shook it off. You can do the same!" It completely misses the point, and shows that you don't really understand their situation. A lot of people can't just shrug it off. This goes for Haru and his accumulated issues. The differences between your situations, is that he was much younger; the younger a kid is, the more profoundly mentally it affects them. The divorce of Haru's parents so shook him, and was so horrible, that his mind basically shut that trauma out. Haru didn't get his wings because of his bullying; he got it because he is much more deeply scarred then you realize. He wanted to get away from his arguing parents that badly. So much so, that his mind shut those memories out in order that he can function. But suppressed traumatic memories still affect the emotional state of the individual, and it left him a more sensitive, emotional, and easily hurt human being. Until Haru explores those memories (and the light novels hint that he is heading that way), he'll never really deal with the trauma that gives him his power in BB. I realize why he attracts the "women" (They are girls and nothing more. 15 year olds, a woman is not) in this anime, but if you don't realize how outlandish it is I don't know what to say. Because they aren't "girls" in the sense you are thinking. Remember, time flows differently in the accelerated world. Niko outright told Haru that "if you knew how much time she and I have spent in the other world..." Haru was warned the first time he set foot in the unlimited field, not to spend a whole lot of continuous time there, because you'd come back a different person. The minds of Kuroyuki, Niko, Fuuko, and all the other women are older than their bodies. They have years, if not decades, of experience to draw from. That has aged them. So yes, we are dealing with women, who happen to inhabit the bodies of teens. And note that of all the women, only Kuroyuki really loves him. Well, Chiyuri does, too, but she's known him for most of his life. The other women are mainly friends who tease him occasionally. If you have problems with a guy attracting girls who are just friends, then you really need to get out more. I feel like they forced it, and it would take a great deal of banter to convince me otherwise. Well, I love talking about this stuff, and I can go for months discussing and debating, so I'll be here as long as you are. :) Consider the points above carefully, as I have stated them before, and it's important to understand them before we can move on. I'll be waiting for your reply. |
| It does appear that you are well vested in civil debate. You know how to pick out small points, running them into the ground while you ignore the points that you might have a harder time refuting. I respect this. It's always fun to enter a line of discourse with someone that posses a brain and not just having to play devil's advocate to keep it going. First, I will give my concessions: Kaijo said: The whole point about depression (and no, not saying Haru has this) I didn't believe that you were trying to make that argument, but it's good to have that cleared up. I'll say it again: "Everyone is different." If I can't compare the his situation and yours, then you can't either. You can't have it both ways. Pick one. I meant that more so as in, "You can't compare the severity of the two situations that lightly. One case is death and the other is separation, the former would be considered more severe by the general populace.", but I understand where you are coming from. It is inane trying to compare situations because no two people are the same. This is something that I have understood all too well my entire life, since all well-wishers tend to say something along the lines of "I can't understand how you are able to cope so well". The only reason I took offense with that point of yours was because it felt like you were making light the situations I have had to go through. But, I will concede this. The minds of Kuroyuki, Niko, Fuuko, and all the other women are older than their bodies. They have years, if not decades, of experience to draw from. That has aged them. I also realize that the physical and mental ages of the girls in this anime are vastly different. Well, maybe not vastly but it is within the realm of reason to think that they are probably at a minimum a couple of year older mentally then physically. With that said though, I would put the limit at probably a decades difference max so it's not like they are mentally 30-40 years old, at most they are mid to late 20's. Since I'm 20, I find it hard to call 20 year olds "women". But since these are my concessions, I will concede that I did not include that in my original argument, thus your point is valid. And that ends my concessions. Now I'll refute one of your statements that I didn't tack on to my concessions and then kinda delve into discussion: And note that of all the women, only Kuroyuki really loves him. Well, Chiyuri does, too, but she's known him for most of his life. The other women are mainly friends who tease him occasionally. If you have problems with a guy attracting girls who are just friends, then you really need to get out more. Alrighty, note that when I use the term "love", I am using it in the anime sense. I can agree that out of all the female characters only Kuroyuki and Chiyuri love him in the form of "eros". The others are sitting somewhere between "phillia" and "eros". In most anime, depending on the translation you read, "love" and "like" are interchangeable. In anime you always hear how x-chan loves y-chan, but I believe for a realistic audience the word "like" usually works better in romantic interactions between characters. Falling in love is not something as easy as shown in most anime. It just doesn't happen that way. And I have no such problem with a guy being surrounded by more female friends then male. I don't have a problem with that because that's how I am. Hell my college roommate whom I share my apartment with is a girl. I have always felt more at ease being surrounded by girls than the average guy because my household only included my mom, my younger sister, and me after all the deaths. What is the purpose of this anime? Is it to be taken with at least some amount of seriousness, or is it to be a complete farce? The answer to that is what will decide my feelings toward Haru. If this anime is purely a comedy and not intended to be taken seriously, I can forgive Haru's ridiculous proportions. I can even assent to him being able to steal the affections of all the anime's female characters. If this was all intended for a shock factor to try and elicit a laugh then it has my blessings and I will no longer complain about Haru. But. If this anime is to be taken seriously, as I believe it is, then his proportions are unforgivable. I don't really care about having every male lead be the same cookie cutter build, I encourage some different looks. But Haru looks like someone packed pounds onto a male Suzu from "Seitokai Yakuindomo". "Setokai Yakuindomo" is hilarious and that is all it wants to be so for a character to appear like they must use a ladder to get up stairs is ok. I view Haru in a simliar light as I do the female leads of "Highschool of the Dead", physically ridiculous people in a seemingly serious anime. As I've stated many times, I don't care if the lead is fat, as long as he is proportionate. I don't care if the lead is short, as long as he is proportionate. But for him to be THAT short and THAT fat makes this whole thing seem like a farce. I don't care how kind he is, someone that looks like he does has no chance with those beauties in a realistic situation. They can be extremely mature and find his personality to their liking, but I can promise you that under no circumstance would they relent and date someone like him. It is just too much of a stretch. It is illogical however you look at it. I really wish the creators of this anime had just made Haru obese. If he was of average height and fat I wouldn't have a single problem with this anime or Haru. I've had friends that were overweight have rather attractive girlfriends, so I'm not saying fat guys can never take home the prom queen. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here. Well, I love talking about this stuff, and I can go for months discussing and debating, so I'll be here as long as you are. :) Consider the points above carefully, as I have stated them before, and it's important to understand them before we can move on. I'll be waiting for your reply. Yes, let the debate! Haha, but really I'm all for volleying this one with you. I'm interested in seeing how you reply, and yes this discussion is going to start dragging in outside sources as references so I'm looking for that as well. You've got a good head on your shoulders, I'll be looking forward to your reply. |
aLooser said: It does appear that you are well vested in civil debate. You know how to pick out small points, running them into the ground while you ignore the points that you might have a harder time refuting. If you feel I overlooked points, feel free to point them out and I will address them. I don't believe I did. But I will point out something yet again, that you have repeatedly ignored, and that is regarding Haru's proportions. I repeatedly stated that he was drawn that way to make him look "cuter." His actual dimensions, if one reads the light novels, are actually closer to what you'd expect. And the few pictures from the light novels have him a bit closer to the others in height. If he were drawn the way you expect, he'd appear much "uglier." It's similar to how sometimes a character is drawn in a chibi fashion. I will admit that this isn't everyone's thing. But this is anime, and so one has to make allowances for art style. I fully admit, though, that there are anime where I don't like the art style, such as Blood C, where everyone is drawn super thin like toothpicks. But this would be the sole reason you would have a problem with him, that would be considered legitimate. First, I will give my concessions: I meant that more so as in, "You can't compare the severity of the two situations that lightly. One case is death and the other is separation, the former would be considered more severe by the general populace.", but I understand where you are coming from. With all due respect, you don't, quite yet. While on the surface your statement might seem to suggest your point, and thus draw agreement, it is ultimately not fully correct. You aren't taking into account one major issue: age. You were 10 when that happened. Haru was somewhere between 4 and 6. The younger a child is, the more emotional vulnerable they are, and the easier they are traumatized and scarred. I don't think you would debate this point. So your situation, which I do not make light of, is different because you were older and thus more able to mentally adapt and cope. A younger child in your shoes would not fare so well, and I think you would agree. As I said, everyone is different, too. It seems like you haven't watched the two OVA episodes, and so I would encourage you to do so. They might help shed some more light on things. Well, the second OVA starts giving hints, but the light novels gives many more hints. I also realize that the physical and mental ages of the girls in this anime are vastly different. Well, maybe not vastly but it is within the realm of reason to think that they are probably at a minimum a couple of year older mentally then physically. With that said though, I would put the limit at probably a decades difference max so it's not like they are mentally 30-40 years old, at most they are mid to late 20's. Since I'm 20, I find it hard to call 20 year olds "women". There are many 20 year old women who wouldn't take kindly to your statement. At 20, they are no longer children or teenagers, and thus "women" is a perfectly legitimate descriptor. It is, in fact, the most accurate one. But this is beside the point you are ignoring. Watch episode 10 again where they explain about the time difference. One day in real life is 3 days in the Unlimited field. The Accelerated World itself has been in existence for 7000 years. Digest that for a bit, and realize that Kuroyuki was there a year or two after the start of the Accelerated World. She wasn't logged on for the entirety of the time, but even a small fraction of time easily gives her decades of time. So yes, she is mentally much older than she looks. Much older. She still has a teenage body and hormones, though, so she still acts a bit like a teen girl. But her decades of experience has changed her, much like it has changed many other Burst Linkers. Watch the series again, and pay attention to them. Especially the kings, who act much like adults, despite being kids. If you are to continue with Accel World, then learning to grasp the time difference is critical to understanding the characters therein. Alrighty, note that when I use the term "love", I am using it in the anime sense. I can agree that out of all the female characters only Kuroyuki and Chiyuri love him in the form of "eros". The others are sitting somewhere between "phillia" and "eros". In most anime, depending on the translation you read, "love" and "like" are interchangeable. In anime you always hear how x-chan loves y-chan, but I believe for a realistic audience the word "like" usually works better in romantic interactions between characters. Falling in love is not something as easy as shown in most anime. It just doesn't happen that way. Sometimes it is easy, and sometimes it is not. There are all different types of people in the world. Don't try to cram them all into your own limited experiences and understanding. Some people do fall in love easily. But I won't say that Haru and Kuroyuki's love life has been easy. Haru, especially, has to learn to come to grips with his insecurities and self-image, in order to have a relationship at all. If this were easy, he would have immediately returned Kuroyuki's feelings and the two would be a steady normal dating couple now. They're not. I like that; as opposed to most anime with superficial reasons to keep an obvious pair apart, there are very real psychological issues at work here. What is the purpose of this anime? Is it to be taken with at least some amount of seriousness, or is it to be a complete farce? Why must you try to cram it into one extreme or the other? Can't it be a more middle-ground mix of both? Or rather, it has serious moments and comedic moments. Only you can decide if you like this anime enough to continue with it, as there are subjective tastes involved. But let's be honest about expectations and reality here. Your issues seem to come from extremes, and from arguing against the nature of anime itself, and from not quite understanding where the characters are coming from. If it doesn't work for you, fine. There are thousands of shows, and everyone likes different plots. I hate typical harems, myself. But some people like them. So I won't tell you to like Haru. I will, however, point out where incorrect assumptions and statements have been made. |
| I'm going through the series now and I don't mind an MC (or any character) for being fat, but this guy is ridiculously small and round, while having the personality of a worthless wimp. He's finally growing a spine, but ehhh. Also, why was his avatar in the game a pig? C'mon, I would expect a self deprecating guy like that to at least pick something normal or even cool as a way of compensating of sorts (haha) for his real life stature. Just saying. |
ZRShay said: Also, why was his avatar in the game a pig? C'mon, I would expect a self deprecating guy like that to at least pick something normal or even cool as a way of compensating of sorts (haha) for his real life stature. Just saying. Yeah, I asked myself that as well. Apparently, the author wanted to depict an otaku-gamer with self-esteem issues without being one himself, or even understanding them. |
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ZRShay said: I'm going through the series now and I don't mind an MC (or any character) for being fat, but this guy is ridiculously small and round, while having the personality of a worthless wimp. He's finally growing a spine, but ehhh. Also, why was his avatar in the game a pig? C'mon, I would expect a self deprecating guy like that to at least pick something normal or even cool as a way of compensating of sorts (haha) for his real life stature. Just saying. The light novels covered it, and I'm a bit upset that the anime left it out. But it was Araya, the bully at the start, who had forced Haru to choose a pig as an avatar. Just more bullying. And Reki (the author) is a an otaku-gamer. Listened to him at a con once in the US. He knows his gamer stuff. |
| this isn't really my issue I believe he just looks completely out of place, in comparison to everyone else |
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| Because in this world a pretty girl like Kuroyukihime would never,never talk to fat boy like Arita LOL My opinion xD |
"There is no such thing as an Anime elitist. You watch Anime, therefore, you are trash by society's standards." |
AivanK said: Because in this world a pretty girl like Kuroyukihime would never,never talk to fat boy like Arita LOL My opinion xD I find myself repeating this often, but... women aren't as focused on looks as guys are. So some guys can sometimes find it hard that a girl would like an unattractive guy. It's actually not that strange at all, once you learn what really attracts women. Plus, Kuroyuki is a special case, due to how Brain Burst has affected her. You'll find out as the series continues. |
| I don't mind if he's fat, it's just the way he's designed, he doesn't look normal at all He also looks really cartoony :S |
| "I'm going to have to work harder to open your eyes, aren't I?" ~Erudito "You're here because you want to feel like something you're not, a hero." "Do you feel like a hero yet?" ~Konrad |
Plightz said: I don't mind if he's fat, it's just the way he's designed, he doesn't look normal at all He also looks really cartoony :S That is an issue. Rumor has it was done that way on purpose, to make him look more "cute." If he was drawn more realistically, he'd appear much uglier and thus it would be harder for fans to accept him. |
| Fat F*ck. |
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Digglett said: I don't care that he's fat. I think he's a dick. Except when he's a pig because I can't hate pigs. Yes, I too find it hard to hate bacon. |
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dblbch said: Digglett said: I don't care that he's fat. I think he's a dick. Except when he's a pig because I can't hate pigs. Yes, I too find it hard to hate bacon. 3/10. Your trolling needs work. I've seen some really good trolls over the years, but they put effort into it. Not just one or two short sentences. They get several paragraphs going and start some serious flame wars. They also pick more active forums. In short: find better forums and put more effort into it, dude. This is pathetic. We anime nerds demand better trolls. |
| Completed this anime today. My problem (physically) with him isn't its height or weight, my problem with him it's the same as others said. He seems out of place. I mean, you can take any character from Clannad or another anime with a similar style and put it into another anime like Berserk, KnB, Slam Dunk, wtf no way. Well, he seems something like this example, in my opinion. |
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TenshiGeraku said: Completed this anime today. My problem (physically) with him isn't its height or weight, my problem with him it's the same as others said. He seems out of place. I mean, you can take any character from Clannad or another anime with a similar style and put it into another anime like Berserk, KnB, Slam Dunk, wtf no way. Well, he seems something like this example, in my opinion. It is an art decision that won't work for everyone. But as stated before, if he was drawn more inline with everyone else, you'd probably hate it more, because he'd look uglier. It's much harder to get behind an uglier character as a main hero, thus the decision to render him more "cutely" chubby. Right now, the anime audience can't handle an ugly main, so this is the best we get. I think Reki deserves props for not only doing such a unique main character, but doing it so well that a lot of people like him and the series. I don't think any other writer has the balls to even go this far. Luiz_Daemon said: I am going to take a shot here and end with your pussy talk! As far as i could read at least 40% of the people on this discussion went like: "oh it's not because he is fat or short or cartoony or out of place or just too fucking weak minded...blablabla" I will end this right now and say, YES, IT IS! I think AccelWorld is an awesome, really amazing series, thank you Reki Kawahara for making it, BUT why does the MC have to look like that? A lot of MC in other series go through bullying and they dont look like that, not even close. So yeah I hate that he looks like that and at least 70%roughly of people who watched it also hate it. The World is about looks, like it or not, so deal with it, thank good kawahara-sensei learned his lesson and look at SAO: no fat/short/cartoony/weak MC. Just look at the difference of impact, AccelWorld:great, really awesome. SAO:Made people go crazy saying all around the world things like: shut up everyone this is motherfuckingmasterpiece! thats a huge gap of distance in my opinion... The thing you're missing, and I don't blame you for it, is that it isn't just the bullying that made him turn out that way. Without giving too much away, you'd have to watch the OVAs and/or read the light novels to start getting an idea as to why. Suffice it to say, the bullying happened afterward. Why does he have to look that way? Because it ties in to why he's the hero. If he hadn't gone through what he had, then he wouldn't have had the trauma to be Silver Crow. He's a hero who has every reason to be emo at times and depressed. Kirito, as much as I like the guy and don't feel he deserves the hate he gets, was very emo for almost no reason. He had a sad event or two, but he had no reason to stay that way. He comes across as a stereotypical "tortured" main hero, but it never really feels totally justified. Haru does. He has a severe inferiority complex that he is fighting against every step of the way. He has real fears that he confronts. I suppose, as a real person, and perhaps hitting too close to home for some, it does make them feel uncomfortable enough that they downgrade him. While Kirito hits all the right buttons for the mindless masses as typical-tortured-action-hero-guy. |
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