Anyone really frustrated in abusive slapstick humour in shoujo anime?

--Ryu-- said:
Of course. This is the reason why I hate Toradora and Shigatsu wa kimi no uso (not a shoujo but the point is still there).

Mark_Jason said:
I didn't care for it when I was young. I am 23 now and it's really pissing me off. In nearly every episode the male characters get punched, kicked etc for the dumbest reason, by both the male and female characters.

Even if it's warranted, shouldn't this be a bad lesson to teach the viewers as it obviously says it's OK to hit boys for whatever you want.

I just watched Fruit Basket 2019 till ep 3 when Kagura starts beating the crap out of Kyo but he just stands there and doesn't hit back.

I had enough of it, this is how I turned into Yaoi and Shounen Ai.

Mark_Jason said:
I didn't care for it when I was young. I am 23 now and it's really pissing me off. In nearly every episode the male characters get punched, kicked etc for the dumbest reason, by both the male and female characters.

Even if it's warranted, shouldn't this be a bad lesson to teach the viewers as it obviously says it's OK to hit boys for whatever you want.

I just watched Fruit Basket 2019 till ep 3 when Kagura starts beating the crap out of Kyo but he just stands there and doesn't hit back.

I had enough of it, this is how I turned into Yaoi and Shounen Ai.

-Ecliptix- said:
Equality is not a reality and never really will be until we are completely androgynous as a species. There are so many things that are not the same for both sexes in media etc.

Zero no Tsukaima
Toradora

are two that came to mind quick

The reason I could never give Toradora a higher rating even though I liked it is the excessive tsundere and how violent she is. I am not against it but its excessive for no real reason in my eyes. There are lots of anime with this sort of make up and I find them lacking because of it. I am fine with women being treated as sex objects if men are as well. I am fine with women beating the shit out of guys if men can do the same to women.

If you crave or want equality than you cant claim that because men are stronger it is more dangerous. It doesnt take much to kill someone. My issue is my experience with this is that women I talk to want to be treated as equals with out giving up any of the advantages that exist and that just isnt equality.

Seiya said:


Wait, you were able to literally "turn into" yaoi and shounen ai? :P

In all seriousness though, when it comes to the abusive slapstick humour tropes, you can ultimately blame Rumiko Takahashi, as she started it. Her comedies suck, because there's nothing funny about them.

mono_mer said:

Watch josei, rather than shoujo.
30 characters limit.

Mark_Jason said:


So why are women beaten by men in films or TV series? Nobody has a problem with it. Women get slapped constantly in cinema by men.

It's just anime and manga that omit this because I think kids wouldn't watch it if girls got beaten instead.

-Ecliptix- said:


Not talking about depiction talking about social acceptance. It is far more socially acceptable in one direction than the other.

Mark_Jason said:


I am not looking for lessons, but romance anime are watched by kids. It doesn't transfer a good message at all.

And its definitely sexist because girls are not treated this way. It's only guys, why?

Because if the creators would show guys hitting girls, people wouldn't watch it and complain about domestic violence and that the author or whoever made it is pure scum.

So if you think of it that way, it is abusive and sexist.

Maou_heika said:
I was going to agree with you till I read the last sentence. You like a genre filled with sexual violence and rape and then complain physical violence against males. Those semes are far worse than any of those girls hitting the guys for comedy.

I absolutely hate slapstick humor, I've never found it funny but the whole problem is far more common in shounen rom-coms than shoujo. Shoujo has its issues with bad boys but girls hitting boys isn't all that common.

ngl, I hate tsunderes so I was quite pleased to see someone behave aggressively with Kyo, that's the only right way to treat a tsundere.

Nalusa_Falaya said:

Tbh, I think even the kids will laugh instead of taking it as a motive to hit people or abuse a certain gender, And if he does get influenced by it then you should probably make him stop watching anime other than Doraemon since he's probably way too young for these shows. Most anime where slapstick like this happens is stuff like romance, harems and slife of lifes and most of these genres are dominated with PG-13 ratings, Purifying every bad lesson in media for every kid is impossible since parents have different views on morals, You know what isn't impossible tho ?, Making your kid not watch "abusive" shows that he won't get the humor of.

Also, In your second statement you say something I already replied on, You're fighting fire with fire. Not because women take slapstick of guys hitting girls too seriously then you should too, What you should be doing is realizing that it's comedy and there are way more harmful stuff in media that you should be worried about instead of these minuscule details that you think will imbed sexism in our brains even though all people do is cringe or giggle at em.

You literally saw some women bitching and were like "Wait, Why are they bitching ?, Why can't men bitch about things"

You should both stop bitching and realize it's just some stupid slapstick and not freaking mind control

Mark_Jason said:


I do realise it's comedy.

I am saying its wrong for all the reasons I gave.

Nalusa_Falaya said:

Tbh, I think even the kids will laugh instead of taking it as a motive to hit people or abuse a certain gender, And if he does get influenced by it then you should probably make him stop watching anime other than Doraemon since he's probably way too young for these shows. Most anime where slapstick like this happens is stuff like romance, harems and slife of lifes and most of these genres are dominated with PG-13 ratings, Purifying every bad lesson in media for every kid is impossible since parents have different views on morals, You know what isn't impossible tho ?, Making your kid not watch "abusive" shows that he won't get the humor of.

Also, In your second statement you say something I already replied on, You're fighting fire with fire. Not because women take slapstick of guys hitting girls too seriously then you should too, What you should be doing is realizing that it's comedy and there are way more harmful stuff in media that you should be worried about instead of these minuscule details that you think will imbed sexism in our brains even though all people do is cringe or giggle at em.

You literally saw some women bitching and were like "Wait, Why are they bitching ?, Why can't men bitch about things"

You should both stop bitching and realize it's just some stupid slapstick and not freaking mind control

Mark_Jason said:


I never said I like sexual violence. I am saying its more acceptable for the reason I gave. The Ukes in yaoi are not depicted to be suffering, they take it easily just like boys who get hit by girls in romantic comedy manga.

You support one Tsundere and don't like the other?

Geez, you are contradicting yourself and being hypocritical as hell.

Maou_heika said:
But you just said that sexual violence is more acceptable than physical violence. Those boys getting hit love the girl that's hitting them so they aren't exactly suffering as well by that logic.

Which tsundere did I support? As long as someone behaves aggressively with tsunderes I'm fine with it no matter who it is.

billybub said:
nope not at all. If it bothers you so much then perhaps this isn't the rigjt form of entertainment for you

-Ecliptix- said:


Im not bitching at all I dont actually care but it doesnt mean I am incapable of being impartial and seeing it for what it is. Society says violence in general is wrong. So it shouldnt be more right or wrong from either sex. But it is. I dont claim mind control or that it is a good or bad influence. People can make up their own minds to what ever degree they see fit. Opinions are simply a person own thoughts on it.

You cant cherry pick right and wrong because of the degrees of it. It is why there are laws that say murder is wrong and illegal but if you ask people in general they may not tell you there are degrees of it but they will say as much in their beliefs.

Many people are quite alright with someone killing a murderer but not an innocent child. In the end they are both murder.

We can agree to take varying sides in it but I am and always will be impartial to such things. I think society is broken when it comes to crime and punishment. I generally agree what is in anime is not a big deal and dont think it needs to change. From and equality stand point it is just off the mark a lot on both sides. You cant strive for equality while using inequality as entertainment. It is why I dont think there can be equality it is woven into the fabric of society. I am either agree or disagreeing with you I just think the direction you are coming at it is flawed if you think equality is a good and important thing than you cant trumpet it in anyway as being okay even in comedy. It enables people to believe or show it can be fine sometimes when the message people are saying is it is never okay. People understanding that depiction in comedy doesnt make it right isnt something you can say all people will understand.

I dont want to get into a philosophical debate in an anime forum but thats my stance

Mark_Jason said:


EH,not sure. I think that reasoning is really stupid. Just an excuse to promote violence against boys so little girls can laugh.

Fruits Basket was made for little girls anyway, so what can I say?

It's cringy at its best, and Kagura deserves to be slapped.

Just an excuse to promote violence against boys so little girls can laugh.

YoungBreezy23 said:
No not really.

Slapstick humour is supposed to be funny because of how extreme and unrealistic it is. Sure, it may be unfunny to a lot of us, but it isn't targeted for us. Shoujo's are mostly made for teen-young women.

Most of the times, slapstick humor rarely has anything to do with the plot except to highlight a girl's(Tsunderes most of the times) aggressiveness and cold natured. It's really just an extreme way of showing that.

And like the guy above me stated, slapstick humor is an common theme in basically all cartoons that kids watch. Looney Tunes, Spongebob, Ed Edd and Eddy, Regular Show, Gumball, 2003 Teen Titans, etc. Mind as well just cancel all of those as well, because they incite a "violent" message, right?

No one should really be getting frustrated about this. Sure, it's annoying a lot of the times and unfunny (To us, it's probably funny to the designated audience), but it's importance in the overall plot of most romcoms is miniscule. Stop trying to make this an gender issue.

Short_Circut said:

Stupid in what way though?

I can agree that Kagura needs a little pecking, but to say her story is is a bit asinine, especially looking at far worse similar characters in most shounen (because it's honestly worse in shounen than it is shoujo imo).

Nalusa_Falaya said:

Cool, I don't have any more rebuttals or counter arguments other than the ones I already said, See if you'll agree or disagree on them

Peace

Mark_Jason said:


It IS a gender issue though. They don't show girls being hit because it wouldn't be as acceptable even if its a bloody cartoon and meant for humour.

You sound hypocritical and sexist.

YoungBreezy23 said:


I don't understand how I sound hypocritical at all, as nothing I said contradicted my point. Nor do I see how I'm being sexist.

Let's make this clear, this isn't a gender issue.

Of course, girls rarely get hit back in shoujos because they are aim for an female audience and it isn't gentlemen like to hit a girl. Most girls prefers male leads that act like a gentlemen. So of course, they won't hit back.

That's simple marketing.

Second, you are sounding hypocritical. You watched the Fairy Odd Parents, right? Did you get angry over how Wanda kept on abusing Comso? Did you get angry when Foop, blue box baby, tried to kill Poof multiple times?

Of course not. That is comedy and plot for children. Stop trying to add gender issues for shows made for children/teenagers. It's incredibly stupid.

You have this mindset that slapstick humor is used to teach morals when in reality it is used for simple comedic purposes. And if you're that mad, why not just get rid of all slapstick comedy then? Why does it has to the ones where the females are doing it?

This is the equivalent of an woman getting mad because Yuuta hit Ruka (love chunibyo & other delusions). There is no reason to get mad because it's fucking comedy. It has nothing to do with the plot and is irrelevant to the grand scheme of things. Just like as romcoms are not implying "Girls should hit boys because they can" Love Chunibyo and Other Delusions isn't saying "Boys should hit girls when they are being stupid". Or is just like the show Konosuba isn't telling young males to steal girls panties, but to parody these tropes.

Like I said before, slapstick humor is used to illustrate a girl's personality in a extreme comedic way. It's just an overused cliché that entertains the audience. You say how this gives the viewers and kids a bad message but do you see any Japanese women actively bullying men? That's way more common out here in the US then Japan.

Mark_Jason said:


No, feminism wasn't the foundation of this topic, I am just saying they are the ones who complain about using violence on females as a humour.

Many other people wouldn't watch a guy hit a girl as a humour as well, but they don't mind girls abusing boys.

It's sexism ingrained in the society.

amusedmonkey said:


Have them watch Barakamon then (lovely anime, by the way), where the MC kicks a little girl and an old man. Equal abuse to all, no sexism or ageism!

Mark_Jason said:


I didn't care about Fairy Odd Parents. Like at all.

I cared about Fruits Basket and other rom coms hence why it made me mad,i think that's pretty normal.

So why do they not get guys to hit girls back in other genres like Seinen, Josei, Shounen etc?

It's totally a gender issue, and I am not saying that in negative manner, it just is.

And women bully men everywhere. Maybe not in Islam.

YoungBreezy23 said:


1. Guys don't hit girls most of the time in Shounen, Seinen, Josei, etc because most of them are goody two shoes.

If they aren't that, then they don't really care. For example, Yusuke, Guts, Miyamoto, Spike, Thorfinn, Lelouch, most AOT characters, Nafoumi, Killua, Onziuka, etc. Even Goku isn't afraid to hit a woman, except for Chi-Chi because that's his wife and he might kill her.

Other than your honorable and morally "superior" protags, a lot wouldn't care if there's a woman, man, or microwave. For romcoms, most of the MCs are, for lack of better term, beta males. They submit to a lot of people needs and desires, especially girls. A lot of time, they are too "nice" to hit a girl back.

2. It's not an gender issue at all. It's simple comedy. These shows aren't aimed for adults audiences, so applying sexist themes to romantic-COMEDIES doesn't make any sense. The writers and animators just used slapstick humor to make people laugh. There is no ulterior motive or no underlying message. They aren't promoting sexism, they are just trying to make comedy. David Chappelle isn't racist for making light hearted JOKES about his own race, right?

3. Women bully men everywhere. Woman bully women everywhere. Men bully women everywhere. Men bully men everywhere. Humans bully humans. It's bound to happen, sexism is everywhere. Japan is however one of the least sexist countries. In fact, it's in the top 20 in gender equality. So obviously, these shows aren't influencing or teaching bad values to young girls. Also, women can bully men in Islam too. Not every Islamic country oppresses women like Saudi Arabia.

Mark_Jason said:


Excellent, give me the names please.

Mark_Jason said:


Kagura is a horrible tsunderes.
She's all about physical violence and not being able to control herself.

And you support her

AquaMailman said:
The guy walks in/changes and gets hit thing really doesn't bother me. It's based on the idea of female modesty x male visually oriented sex drive, so like all humour there's some truth behind it, at least in a culture that isn't a complete degenerate trainwreck (or at least pretends not to be). Now when it's occurs in every episode of the same series, it's a bit repetitive, but any joke wears out its welcome when overdone.

It's Japanese. It's not my culture. I give things a lot of leeway, even in this case where it's a running gag that has kinda lost its steam. Take it in stride, get to the next scene, calm tits, don't overthink it. I always feel like it's a fucking privilege to be able to enjoy anime, so knocking it for these things would feel like pissing on my host's rug.

Maou_heika said:
I'm not a fan of Kagura but I support her because I hate Kyo. Also I don't think she was a tsundere.

Mark_Jason said:


Then you don't know the definition of a tsundere.

Kagura Is an extreme example of a tsundere and a dumb and useless character too.

Wish she hit Yuki too, hate him so much.

But she really needs a slap across the face. She needs to calm down.

Maou_heika said:
I can already see your double standards, if you were to watch a male tsundere doing the same thing you wouldn't even complain.

Maou_heika said:
I can already see your double standards, if you were to watch a male tsundere doing the same thing you wouldn't even complain.

Mark_Jason said:
I didn't care for it when I was young. I am 23 now and it's really pissing me off. In nearly every episode the male characters get punched, kicked etc for the dumbest reason, by both the male and female characters.

Even if it's warranted, shouldn't this be a bad lesson to teach the viewers as it obviously says it's OK to hit boys for whatever you want.

I just watched Fruit Basket 2019 till ep 3 when Kagura starts beating the crap out of Kyo but he just stands there and doesn't hit back.

I had enough of it, this is how I turned into Yaoi and Shounen Ai.

LeonhartAugust said:

There's a massive difference between slapstick humour and actual abuse. For example, Kyo getting hit by Yuki and Kagura for shit and giggles is no big deal compared to him getting locked up for the rest of his life due to his fate as the cat. And there's Akito who straight up abuses the entire zodiac (which is taken seriously but it's straight up weird how she goes from a mentally troubled young woman to a cute moe girl in the span of a few episodes - not the best wording, but you get it). And Yuki isn't a bitch, it's just that both him and Kyo were both pitted against each other by Akito and neither of them had no idea what a trash childhood the other person had.

Larry009 said:


You are obviously missing the point he was making. He was talking about sexism here. If its "nothing" as you say, why aren't the female characters getting abused?

I agree that it's annoying and repetitive, and obnoxious. No adult would take such shows seriously, and that's why romance animes have a really low viewership.

Mark_Jason said:
[
It happens in romantic comedies instead, but romance and shoujo are used interchangeably.

_Maneki-Neko_ said:

Glad they only have rape and absolutely toxic boyfriends in a lot, or at least too many, BLs. Welp.

saz3000 said:
Shounen AI isn't much better either what with all the rampant sexual assault and overly-possessive behavior. It's sad because the genre has stories with genuine heart but most people are understandably put off by it's rapey reputation.

YoungBreezy23 said:
No not really.

Slapstick humour is supposed to be funny because of how extreme and unrealistic it is. Sure, it may be unfunny to a lot of us, but it isn't targeted for us. Shoujo's are mostly made for teen-young women.

Most of the times, slapstick humor rarely has anything to do with the plot except to highlight a girl's(Tsunderes most of the times) aggressiveness and cold natured. It's really just an extreme way of showing that.

And like the guy above me stated, slapstick humor is an common theme in basically all cartoons that kids watch. Looney Tunes, Spongebob, Ed Edd and Eddy, Regular Show, Gumball, 2003 Teen Titans, etc. Mind as well just cancel all of those as well, because they incite a "violent" message, right?

No one should really be getting frustrated about this. Sure, it's annoying a lot of the times and unfunny (To us, it's probably funny to the designated audience), but it's importance in the overall plot of most romcoms is miniscule. Stop trying to make this an gender issue.