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| So sad there's too many haters... This kind of ending is one of the possibilities that would happen when a story has the time travelling concept involved. Too bad it's not the Steins;Gate way of things that people would enjoy. |
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| Am I the only one who thought it was pretty good? The last two episodes rushed things but I thought the ending was rather fitting. |
| This wasn't as bad as most people say. Not an awe-inspiring ending but somewhat solid ending. Too much details in the last two episodes.Mostly story and characters are pretty inconsistent. Anyway, final episodes rating - 3/5 Series score - 7/10 (fanboi rating - 8/10) |
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tacomaster05 said: This show never existed that crap is getting old now GigaSPX said: So sad there's too many haters... This kind of ending is one of the possibilities that would happen when a story has the time travelling concept involved. Too bad it's not the Steins;Gate way of things that people would enjoy. true and apparently people had forgotten that Maggie had a sudden flashback of her time in Generation Bleu in ep 21 so there is hope for Ao not being completely forgotten |
Brigs77Nov 25, 2012 12:51 AM
| The biggest problem with this is it was 24 episodes of what? It was way to drawn out when you now have the conclusion in hand. It would of been better served to expand on all the drama in the last two episodes instead of this realllllly slow build up to what we have been waiting for since episode 1. The quartz gun rewriting history thing...Truth being a coy villain, then a baby, then a crazed villain, then archetype? So much time was dedicated to Truth and alter Naru which untimely boiled down to Truth's massive screen time not really amounting to much after Renton appeared and Naru only serving as a piece of evidence for Ao to not want to rid the world of everything scub. It's sad when an entire show only got "good" when Renton appeared, described the situation between the scub and secrets, why Eureka was in between time periods, and untimely gave Ao his purpose and direction (not the direction he planned but still). In short 2 episodes, really the last episode, can't amend all the other wrongs. And really, no post credit scenes. Come on man. Renton x Eureka that's all I needed. Good show on Ao's part for taking one for his parents, really showed how much he feels he owes them. Hopefully he isn't a relic of the past/future/whatever and his presence is remembered in the current time. |
Astralsailor said: True0 said: This is due to fact the Truth Version was the only thing left in that world that can make trapers. I don't see that there would be any implications that the world and/or time he arrived at in the ending would not have been infected by the Coralians. Truth just tells Ao that its a completely different possible world then the one he is used to and that he may never even have existed in it. However as there is traper waves even after truth leaves in the ending we can only assume that there is something emitting the trapers. I like to think ao finds his way back to Okinawa and has a great life enjoying the awesome place that the southern islands of Japan actually are. Heck if I would have to pick a place to grow old Miyako-jima would absolutely be it! The whole point of Ao travelling through time was to stop the Coralians from travelling back in time. So in the end there is no Coralians on the earth in 2027, it is set up like that so it wouldn't create inconsistencies between the sequel and the original series, if not it would be a time paradox. The sequel is set in the past and the orginal in the future. I know that the irony of this series is that it is a time paradox, it happened but it did not happen. So Ao and the Truth Version were outside time traveling through it. But Ao rejoined time in the year 2027. |
zeta1 said: I'll just say the show to me started out great ! are you sure?cause from my point of view it was a fail from the first episode! the secret appears and it starts shooting at farms,peoples,houses,refineries,power stations...instead of attacking the scub coral!so where is that amazing rule that:the secret are the universes re-action against the scub coral???cause just from that ,it looks like the secret have something against humans.i mean the first secret's actions follow standard invasion protocol against humans!it destroys power stations,refineries,farmland and shoots at unarmed civilians! the secret should have immediately attacked the scub coral thus the following fusion explosion would annihilate and erase the island and ao and naru would have died from episode 1!it doesnt make sense,does it?Major script/plot/story flaw.the entire story/plot of this anime has collapsed from episode 1!just because it wasnt convinient for the writter.just because the writter was bored to write a better story.or probably because the writter made up the secrets agenda later in the series,so yeah he kind of canceled all previous episodes by making up that rule. but the worst thing in this is that the production studio didnt bother to correct the writters fault!!! |
techstepmanNov 25, 2012 10:30 AM
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| This anime has to be one of the biggest disappointments this season. I was hyped for this series when I first heard about it since I loved the original series and now finishing it I wish Bones never made it. Weak story, whiny characters and the only good thing is the soundtrack. This has to be the worst bones production I ever watched. 6/10 overall |
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| I didn't understand half of the things that were going on. 7/10 just because some episodes got me all excited. |
zeta1 said: there are much worse ones around and it definitely had promise.also the overall pacing and development of the show for several episodes was pretty good. ok...but...you know what...if you can handle the lack of any story or plot its ok but what exactly did you enjoy?i mean the characters were also extremely weak...the only thing to enjoy are the mecha battles,the music/score and the designs and effects.there is nothing else. also there is very good reason for this series to be considared an abomination based on that one mistake.you see when you create an imaginary world you need some rules in order to convince the viewers to let go and dive into the story so they can enjoy it.the secrets rule is like the foundation pillar for this world.the moment the writter breaks that rule just so the secret would appear as villains is the moment this concept stops making sense.and thats the fail.cause if you cause your viewers brains to fill with questionmarks about everything then they cant allow themselves to dive into your world thus they loose interest,their logic kicks in and every little mistake becomes obvious and the show becomes difficult to watch and enjoy.combine that with the lack of strong characters and basicly you get an anime that was made just to make a quick profit.im sorry but i dont considare "story development" to be just random ideas so that the show can move on.story development is something that you have decided before even starting writting the script.obviously that didnt happen here and thats why most of this show doesnt really make any sense and also why the already weak character dont get any real development.dont even get me started on the whole messed up timeline issue that got completely out of hand.i can deal with a paradox or two but to have the entire world and plot change 3 times?thats just too much. i dont know about you but that insults me as a consumer of this product.it insults me that they thought that i would buy this...thanks to a friend who warned me not to buy ,but instead first watch it on some site i was saved from wasting my money. |
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BHancock said: Think about it. You say you pointed out some big issues in how they told the story in Ao's POV ... but then it's just most people's issue really. You don't even address the main point of your - and most people's - problem. You didn't understand anything, since most hints were dropped to vaguely and only made sense to people who overthought, like me whose mind went into overdrive as soon as the last 2 episodes aired. I admit that E7 AO is crap compared to the original, but to say that this was a failure? ................. ......................... And now that E7 AO threw all those episodes out the window and delved immediately into the plot LIKE MOST OF YOU WERE SCREAMING FOR BACK IN 2006 you say you didn't get close to the characters, didn't feel for them, and didn't care for them at all which made them crap. Before new anime projects get greenlit the companies don't just look into DVD sales, they also surf the net like us to see opinions and feedback. Guess what, we got what we wanted, and it's still not enough. There was no problem with the way the story was told. It was cheap of BONES to end every episode with a cliffhanger to create cheap tension, but it got us to think. Possibilities became endless, the theories were flying left and right, and timelines became convoluted and you almost had to read between the lines every time a character uttered an important line. But that's where it also fell: the casuals watching the story didn't understand jack. They (and maybe you, just theorizing) came watching this show thinking it was going to be a straightforward shounen all over again, Renton and Eureka all over again just with more girls ... but they were wrong. In short, you didn't get what you wanted, and now you don't like it. SIMPLE. It's not me who's in denial, it's you my dear sir, and your colleagues around the world, for condemning a show you never understood in the first place. It's easy to label something you don't understand a plot hole, but it's never easy to hide the ignorance for not trying to think why and how BONES would do this. Seriously you don't get it.... really don't. I understand everything that happened on the show. They explain everything... loosely... but they explain it. The last two episodes tie everything up, there aren't any real loose ends (it's hard to get into, because the story rectifies itself, but it's everything leading up to that point that's all over the place). I've never said there was loose ends. The problem is that they are still poorly executed conclusions. Not to mention that the way they tie it all up uses a poorly executed device. The Quarts Gun creates lots of plot holes. I will give you a huge one right here. If you have it all figured out, then you are free to explain it. The Quartz Gun is used on Truth in episode 23.... according to the logic of the show that means he never existed, especially as a Secret. If that is the case then every event that involved him, never happened. For example Naru getting whisked away by Truth. She would've never been shown that being around the scubs made her feel better, she would've never learned the truth about the origin of the scubs... so on and so on... she wouldn't have become a terrorist such as what is implied in episode 23 after the quartz guns use. Again another ridiculous plot hole in the whole "Truth was removed aspect".... Eureka would've never been sent through the scub burst by Ao. Ao sent Eureka away through the scub burst because of the attack caused by Truth on top of the Gekko. That is what sparked that whole string of events. With out that encounter it also means that Nirvash wouldn't have abandoned Eureka to fight Truth on it's own.... which as a result means Nirvash would've never landed in Naru's hands. Since Truth gave the Nirvash to Naru basically. Then you could get into all the possible theoretical outcomes to what else wouldn't have occured with out Truth's existence... from Eureka not returning to her proper timeline and instead staying with Ao a bit longer... to Truth helping Nakamura push the Japanese to being at odds with the world. These are huge plot holes. Yet we are expected to just except what BONES has created at face value. Not to mention that there isn't much of a point of speculating, cause again the Quartz Gun is used once more after this instance, and so we just write off the poorly executed use of the gun, yet again. This is basically what I'm talking about... there is no logic or reasoning to the Quartz Gun. There wasn't rules for it's use (again issues like why Maggie had flashbacks of another timelines life, or what objects are affected or unaffected by the quartz gun... or can it affect beings outside of it's timeline, for example Eureka or Renton). It's stuff like that, which ruins kind of the entire flow of the narrative. That's a poorly told story. Also even in reading between the lines of characters and their motives, nothing adds up, or really contributes to the story as a whole. You simply have all these fleeting moments between characters. Which may reflect the overall ending of the show (with how timelines can be just as fleeting as real life interactions), but added no real substance to the overall plot. This is the kinds of things I DON'T LIKE ABOUT THE AO SERIES. Poorly thought out and poorly executed story devices. Not to mention the poorly developed characters, regardless of the long term outcome of their fates. I mean even if the fate of the characters is to have their whole lives re-written, I'd at least feel something for the event taking place if I cared about the characters, because they had relevance to the story. Personally I never expected this show to be a straight forward shounen, that's not what draws me into an anime. I don't need love triangles, or happy endings, or clear cut endings either. Also never cried foul at the original E7 story either, I don't think there is an episode of the original I didn't enjoy, or didn't feel contributed anything to the story. So I don't fall into the camp who cried about wanting them to "get back to the plot". Although I think if a company is going to create a sequel to a series, they should at least be able to keep in mind who their audience is. Clearly if you are making a sequel to a series, the intended audience is fans of the original. So a good writing choice would be to appeal to such viewers by doing the original series justice (in theme, story elements, ect.). As for myself I simply wanted to be told a story that was worth the time invested in watching. Which at the end of the day I didn't feel was necessarily worth the time. I can't argue with the "Didn't get what you wanted" statement, cause it's true. I didn't get what I wanted... cause all I wanted was; A solid story with no huge plot holes. Although it would've been a plus for the series to do justice to the original E7. |
TheMaverickkNov 25, 2012 9:48 PM
zeta1 said: The problem here is that they basically went with a motivation for the Secrets similar to how the Scub Coral himself had for attacking humanity. Except that the Scub Coral only attacked humanity when they themselves were attacked or when something was altering the delicate balance that the world was in. This is why the Coralians in E7 only attack en-masse after Dewey starts his crusade and begins to throw missiles underground and the Coralian attacks start small and slowly grow more chaotic the more threatened they become.techstepman said: zeta1 said: I'll just say the show to me started out great ! are you sure?cause from my point of view it was a fail from the first episode! the secret appears and it starts shooting at farms,peoples,houses,refineries,power stations...instead of attacking the scub coral!so where is that amazing rule that:the secret are the universes re-action against the scub coral???cause just from that ,it looks like the secret have something against humans.i mean the first secret's actions follow standard invasion protocol against humans!it destroys power stations,refineries,farmland and shoots at unarmed civilians! the secret should have immediately attacked the scub coral thus the following fusion explosion would annihilate and erase the island and ao and naru would have died from episode 1!it doesnt make sense,does it?Major script/plot/story flaw.the entire story/plot of this anime has collapsed from episode 1!just because it wasnt convinient for the writter.just because the writter was bored to write a better story.or probably because the writter made up the secrets agenda later in the series,so yeah he kind of canceled all previous episodes by making up that rule. but the worst thing in this is that the production studio didnt bother to correct the writters fault!!! I agree with you on how dumb the secret's actions were but this very same erratic attack behaviour exists for all secrets in the show, they just wantonly attack everything around them to turn them into villains until they reach the scub, it's a common thing with many anime where the villain does all kinds of horrible things before being turned into a hero because of one small event, nothing that makes me feel too bad about that error here. I also started the show with extremely low expectations, the pocketful of rainbows movie was to me much much worse than ao since it was shallow all over the place with Peter Pan shoehorned into the mythos, characters, etc so these obvious flaws were somewhat offset with the promise of what happened to Eureka and Renton and also the overall pacing and development of the show for several episodes was pretty good. It was not a total fail start, there are much worse ones around and it definitely had promise. What I mean by that is, this isn't new ground for them. they HAVE created this type of "villain" before. Yet even though the first series have this very same type of "counterbalnace force" type of enemy, they couldnt even just imitate what they did already properly and instead they just made big baddies who just kill at random. |
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kingkurry said: I dunno, if they HAD done atual character developement for the other characters the outcry would have been even worse when the ending shoved them all as unimportant distractions.To be honest, the plot holes, premise, ending and other story related issues were not what I found to be the biggest problem. Sure none of those aspects were very good either, but the worst part was the lack of character and theme development. I'm not mad about how they ended it in terms of the plot, but how the ended it without any character or theme development. Overall this was a very shallow series. I'd rate it 5/10 at best. That said, I won't deny myself that E7 dropped the ball a bit in the epilogue scenes by basically not showing even a glimpse of Gekkostate at all during the long retrospection scene at the end (I mean, come on, is it that hard to show short clips of the character's current situation while gramps is doing his big monologue?) but at the very least we knew what their plans were after it was all over, they were developed for the most part and had definite goals and objectives. This... this was just shallow. |
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Leon-Gun said: I dunno, if they HAD done atual character developement for the other characters the outcry would have been even worse when the ending shoved them all as unimportant distractions. That said, I won't deny myself that E7 dropped the ball a bit in the epilogue scenes by basically not showing even a glimpse of Gekkostate at all during the long retrospection scene at the end (I mean, come on, is it that hard to show short clips of the character's current situation while gramps is doing his big monologue?) but at the very least we knew what their plans were after it was all over, they were developed for the most part and had definite goals and objectives. This... this was just shallow. I don't think the outcry would've been that bad. I'm sure some people would've been upset at first, but in the long run, I think it would've made people actually care about the actions Ao takes in the end. I mean I really wanted to care about Ao and his goal to see his mother, to essentially save her from the scub burst. Sadly it was hard to feel anything for him in his journey to that point when he reached his goal. Even a bittersweet ending can have value and depth. Sadly everything in the ending feels very rushed. There isn't much else to say about it. |
Leon-Gun said: What I mean by that is, this isn't new ground for them. they HAVE created this type of "villain" before. Yet even though the first series have this very same type of "counterbalnace force" type of enemy, they couldnt even just imitate what they did already properly and instead they just made big baddies who just kill at random. ...if they are big baddies that kill randomly then why is there an explanation to their existance that clearly states that they are here to erase the scub corals?whats going on?are they here to just shoot at things or are they here to kill the scub?decide already...ofcourse it appears the writter couldnt decide so there you go!a plot that makes absolutely no sense...simply because it didnt have any sense from the beginning lolz.simply because it doenst need any sense since this anime was created with the sole purpose of acting as an excuse for new merchandising.thats why it used the E7 story that has many fans.cause they already have a consumer base that they can take advange of.am i the only one who sees that? if you have such a specific reason to exist,like "kill the scub,erase the scub" then you dont have the luxury of taking your time with target practice on others...like humans.actually ominpotent existances like the secret wouldnt even bother with humans.the secret have no reason to exist in this story.they dont help in any way in developing the story.they were just put in the story just so we could get mecha battles.cause the scub coral is just an alien coral formation that wants to assimilate the planet and its creatures,so the scub wont make any actual coral mecha to fight the humans,the scub dont really need to fight humans since its so easy for it to assimilate humans through infecting their lungs and then spread to their entire body and in the end consume their minds and make them part of the scub...like naru.so they made up the secret...because without the secret there would be no need for mecha in this series...and no mecha means no merchandise to sell.its so simple. and what im saying is that if you wanna sell mecha models and figures so bad then make a new anime with lots of mecha...like gundam or macross.its stupid to just throw in a story stupid needless bad guys so you can have the excuse to make mecha designs. all this anime does is to act as a big advertisement for the merchandise that the companies hiding behind the anime studio want to sell.thats why the plot sucks,that why the characters are so lame and generally thats why this anime is a total fail as an anime.as an advertisement its really cool.actually why bother making 24 episodes?12 episodes should have been enough.it has great designs,great fps,great sound and great battles/action.thats all there is to it.its a freaking advertisement!!! then again they use the temporal multiverse idea to add more depth to the story but you see, that stuff needs brains.a writter that is unable to write a balanced story cant possibly have any brains to make a universe with so many different and messed up timelines...so you get paradoxed to oblivion if you make the mistake to try to figure out what was happening!!! a small note on characters...they defect all the time just because they are a little depresed or confuced.ive lost count of how many people changed sides.lol all the characters in this anime are so offhand-made,where is their dang agenda?oh they dont have any!no thought was put in them at all.lol i mean the people of the island hate Ao because they think hes an alien.seriously?why do they think that hes an alien?because he has blue hair?come on...no because his mother made the "sea giant" angry...seriously?people who go to school,have families,have tvs and electricity believe in "sea giants"???what kind of lame excuse is that?this looks like a story a young elementary student would come up with.it really is weird that a writer was actually paid to write this!im pretty sure that the producers children could have written a better story! "they just made big baddies who just kill at random"...and that is enough for you?does that constitute a good story to you?just make a big baddie for the story to progress?is that how you would write a story?would you pay your hard earned money to watch a story like that?...no need for an answer cause you too understand how badly made this is. ahhhhh!!!im leaving the conversation...going to watch some other anime to change the mood...i spent too much time talking about this pitiful excuse of an anime... |
techstepmanNov 27, 2012 12:32 AM
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kitsuko said: I just want to know what happened, what in the world could be so bad that everyone complains but no one says anything specific about it? It never happened that's why we can't complain about it. ^_^ This accompanies the non existent tsukihime anime. |
| I have absolutely no idea what the was this all about. It was flashy and had giant robots shooting beams so it was good enough for me. Probably only because I didn't care much about this show and noticed a few times that I missed some episodes only after updating my list... After what Bones did to DtB and after Freud-obsessed Star Driver I decided to switch off my mind while watching anything from them. |
Ii tenki desu ne... |
| So very bad.... I, like many others, will go under the assumption that this never happened. |
| 8/10. I liked the show and that's all that matters and one can't do anything about it. Now allow me to get outside to get some fresh air. |
| Around 9:20 Renton performed a classic and skillful fighter pilot move the pigochev cobra impressed that Ao could keep up. Renton turned badass for such a cry baby in the past. I thought this anime was great. The reason people didn't like this is because they felt it contradicts the originals ending where Renton and Eureka seemingly disappeared. But no wonder people hated the ending it was really sad that's a lonely path to take...even though we have seen this kind stuff before due to time traveling still sad. TBH it should have been Eureka and Renton's responsibility to take care of the mess now their son has to deal with the curse and nooo Truth wtf?? I was starting to like him. He should have let Renton destroy the scab corals I mean those people that were coral carriers would live their life pain free in the alternate world because the corals would be non existent. Good show though. People didn't like this because it wasn't as long as it's predecessor with 50 episodes people were able to see the cast growth as a whole, that what I think if this was given the same most people would like it and some people wanted romance me not being a fan of romance it was a nice change from the regular cliche lines from last series. I love you....i'll protect you...we'll be together forever that stuff and lets not forget the moon heart ...so this was a nice change. |
| Wow. All i can say is WOW. I loved E7 with an undying passion. Ending AMAZING. I do agree that this show really did not have to happen. I have no idea what kind of cluster fuck of time jumping universes that was but man that was confusing. I still hate naru at the end, she was such a pain. I dont understand where Ao ended up and not to mention he basically shoots his parents off to another dimension. I am so beyond confused @_@ |
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Guys, please remind me, is there a sequel to our beloved Eureka Seven? I have a hazy feeling about that sequel............. |
Fujimiya said: Guys, please remind me, is there a sequel to our beloved Eureka Seven? I have a hazy feeling about that sequel............. Nope. I think you're imagining things ^^ |
Kjeldoran said: TheMaverickk said: A solid story with no huge plot holes. After breaking down the initial mess that was the time travel/dimensional theory (with a bit of thinking, it actually pieces together rather cohesively), there are,in fact, a number of plot holes worth mentioning. The origin of Naru's Nirvash (essentially Spec 2 from the original E7:PoP because it has a plane-mode) is a gaping hole that is never explained. When Renton forced Eureka away, she was in Nirvash RA272 (the one Ao uses throughout the series) and it did not have an archetype, but Naru, who claims she got it from Eureka, says it has an archetype. How it suddenly got one and why this Nirvash appeared out of thin air is a mystery. The other unexplained plot hole is the Canon's origin/purpose. Aside from being a blatant reference to Type TheEnd, no clues or explanation as to what it is are given. That, and of course why there is still trapar on Earth at the end. Other plot holes exist, but they get more theoretical and subjective and remain outside of the direct storyline. Now, just to add, I have my own analysis of E7:AO as a series and its relationship and overall cohesion with E7:PoP, but I'll have to provide it at a later time (finals, anyone?). Whether in here or as a review/quasi-rant in the review section, I have yet to decide. Not to be cliche, but there's more than meets the eye with E7:AO, and one has to understand it within its context. Naturally, everyone is within their own right to love or hate the series, but I think that one should at least have an informed opinion before doing so. Look out for it... Below is a timeline that I came across that I found to be fairly helpful and comprehensive for those left confused about the time traveling/alternate universe part of the story. Having (freshly) re-watched E7:PoP and E7:AO twice (major episodes multiple times), I find it fairly accurate in that it confirmed most of my own suspicions. I would type my own version, but the original creator put it so eloquently that I ended up supplying an exact copy of the original post. All credit goes to Kairi1 of the mangafox forums. From my understanding of several viewings, here's the sequence of events. The end of Kokyoshihen (Psalm of Planets) Eureka Seven Half the Scub leaves the planet, the moon is engraved with Renton and Eureka's names, and everyone moves on with their lives. In AO's universe, simultaneously The half of the Scub that left the Land of Kanan is now using quartz to travel to this universe (in 12006, the same year at the end of Eureka Seven but in a different Universe), but upon arrival, the large quantity of Scub is attacked by Secrets, the natural antibodies that exist in that world. Wishing to escape and establish itself in that universe (and perhaps others), the Scub uses its Quartz to travel back in time in that same universe to where there aren't any Secrets. However, the Secrets follow and the history of Scub Bursts is created in an instant. Eureka becomes pregnant and meets 13 year old Ao Something like fifteen years later in the Land of Kanan, Eureka and Renton are pregnant with their daughter despite being cautioned by her doctor that the high levels of trapar is potentially dangerous for the baby. During this time, Scub is mysteriously disappearing (possibly replacing the casualties in the Scub-Secret battles) and Eureka is accidentally sent to the other universe during Ao's life (episodes 12-14). It's here that she discovers that the Scub is being attacked by the Secrets. Eureka meets 13 (or 15?) year old Ao The Ao stuck in time from the end of the series sends Eureka back to either the Land of Kanan or the parallel time to her world but in his universe (not sure on this bit; there are lots of Pole Lights in the landscape but Eureka exclaims that she's back anyway). This is important because this is how Eureka finds out that Ao will be born; in other words, she finds out one of her children will survive, and it's what causes her and Renton to try to conceive after their daughter dies. Eureka and Renton fight off the Secrets before the birth of their daughter Here's where stuff gets tricky. You can argue both ways, but I'm tempted to say that at first, Renton and Eureka, once they find out the Scub is being destroyed in this universe, choose to fight on the side of the Scub and protect it from the Secrets. However, when their daughter is born and dies from trapar poisoning, they realize that their children are forever doomed as long as there is too much trapar, and also that the battle between Scub and Secrets is causing many casualties. Eureka and Renton change their stance after the death of their daughter I'm of the opinion that, had it not been for the fact that Eureka and Renton were aware that Ao would be born and would live in this universe, then perhaps they wouldn't have bothered to have Ao or to change their methods. However, because Ao was conceived and also because he created a time paradox by cluing Eureka in to his existence, Eureka and Renton had to do what they did in order to protect him. Regardless of how grand or right it is to protect the Scub, parents as devoted as Eureka or Renton would put aside all of that if it meant they got to save Ao. For them, their child was the most important thing to them, especially after going through the heartbreak of losing their firstborn. Eureka becomes pregnant with Ao While pregnant with their second child, Eureka and Renton are busily fighting off Secrets and Scub with the intent of removing the Scub from this universe. Nearing her delivery date, Renton decides on his own that Eureka and their child will be safer if she finds a time in that universe with an acceptable amount of trapar. He sends her off without her consent and she lands in Iwato Jima in 2012, where she gives birth to Ao. The Scub Burst in 2015 Eureka gets taken by the Allied Forces and two separate, but intimately interconnected, timelines are created. 1)Eureka takes the Quartz and as a result becomes lost in time, causing Ao to search for her and thus setting in motion the events of Astral Ocean. 2)Ao in episode 24 goes back in time to this point and stops Eureka from taking the Quartz; Renton finds them both and Ao forces them to go home with the intent of erasing himself. This is fairly ugly in terms of time travel, but both must occur in order for either to occur. Ao can't do the second without having been influenced by the first, and the first can't happen without the second because Ao uses his exile in time to go back and let his mother know he will be born, causing Eureka and Renton to choose what they did. Renton looks for the Quartz Gun While Ao is born and grows up to join Gen Blue for the purpose of finding Eureka, Renton, in that universes future, is searching for the Quartz that will let him erase the first Scub Coral in AO's universe from existence, not the first Scub Coral in the Land of Kanan. This is an important distinction because Renton is trying to protect Ao; if he were to destroy the first Scub in the Land of Kanan, Eureka would not exist, and neither would Ao. However, destroying the first Scub to come into Ao's world would not have any effect on the Land of Kanan; it serves the simple purpose of stopping Scub Bursts from occurring and also of protecting Ao, at least in Renton's reasoning. Renton finds a way to Ao's time Renton and Ao meet; their ideals clash and Renton is convinced that he has the responsibility of erasing his and Eureka's mistakes, while Ao believes that Renton shouldn't abandon his mother regardless of the circumstances, and that his parents have suffered enough for his sake. Ao goes back in time and causes timeline 2, sending Eureka and Renton back to their lives on the Land of Kanan It is not stated whether or not they will remember him, but I think they will, if only because Renton and Ao, and probably Eureka, are the only ones ever shown to know that the world has been changed by the Quartz Gun. Ao, contrary to popular belief, does not erase himself from actually existing. What he does is something like create another timeline in which he was effectively never born but because he's become a time wanderer, he still exists because that timeline where he was born exists in his memories. It's the Anthropic Principle, as Renton puts it; Reality is different for the beholder. I found this super helpful as that storytelling mess. |
| #49 who said "so... they killed all the Ao's potential romance for the sake of keeping Eureka x Renton... way to just piss off the protagonist in the story no one knows hiim in the new world he's in and archetype Truth disappears = AO HAS NO FRIENDS :(" Actually truth said that they MAY not remember him, to which AO replied "It's alright I chose this, I wanted my parents together and for the world to be more or peace." - Or along those lines. So really there's a chance they remember him but not in the role he took in the series, or maybe only a few details were altered. Remember nothing HUGE ever got altered with the Quartz gun. Just character changes and their history. Such as Maggie now being an allied forces member and the rest of her team being either erased or moved to their home area, etc. (can't remember) So yes while some characters had their roles changed, none died IIRC, and the changed history didn't cover multiple people except in relation to the character's history that was changed. Plus remember Maggie getting flashes of her time with her IFO team? If that's possible it's possible for AO to do the same to anyone that doesn't remember him. Basically like Amnesia. he can get those memories back for them. As for Eureka/Renton - that really pissed me off with that part of the ending. AO spent the entire show getting to know and then trying to save his mom. Then reconciles with his father and BOOM they are taken away from him. HUGE difference from the original series ending where everything was tied up, everyone was together and happy. But I guess that's to be expected because Eureka Seven AO is 99% Action 2%romance/char dev. Where as the original was 50/50. EDIT: Also Renton and Eureka's daughter didn't die directly from Trapar poisoning. It was a combination of being pregnant in a high density trapar area and two different species mating and as a result the baby's human cells and Coralian cells were destroying each other and thus she turned to stone just like a scub coral. (After all Coralian are born from scub.) So to remove the part of the equation that set the genetic makeup of her into rejection/antibody mode, they chose a low Trapar density world. |
xPreatorianxDec 10, 2012 4:54 PM
xPreatorianx said: snip - #350 Outlined below is my working-theory on how the Quartz Gun functions, so in the process of explaining it, I can attempt to address some of the controversy surrounding its role as a plot device. To start off, here are the objective facts regarding Quartz and the Quartz Gun:
As we all learned through the plot, the Quartz Gun has the power to change the world in a big way. In what way or how it does so is not explicitly stated, but the observed consequence is that the gun can alter the past. With no further explanations as to its use or true functions, if we only had just this to go by, then this would obviously be problematic. But that is not entirely the case. In episode 24 (at 15:22 to be precise), Truth states that, "The emotions of intelligent creatures make the Quartz resonate." So what does Truth mean by "resonate" (going with the GG subs translation as I can't clearly hear what words he says)? It could mean a lot of things, and thus the floodgates to the realm of speculation are opened, which is what follows. So here's my theory. Quartz certainly has the ability to let the user traverse time and universes, but I argue that Quartz is a substance that has the ability to bend to the will of the user and make expressed emotions a reality, to a certain extent. Furthermore, I argue that this is the Quartz's primary function; that is, “resonating” with the user, an intelligent creature, and conceptualizing its emotions. It would then follow that the specific ability that allows the user to traverse time and universes is a byproduct of the primary function. I’m basically saying that it is incorrect assume that the Quartz Gun only has the power to change the world by erasing events/people/places. Neither is it some omnipotent wishing device that materializes Ao's thoughts. Think of it as manipulating space, with "space" being an umbrella term for the events/realities/people/places in a given universe, which the gun manipulates via powerful instincts/emotions resonating from Ao. So let’s put it to application. There is the conceptual hurdle of how and why the Scub Coral came to be able to produce or acquire the Quartz, but let’s set that aside. Leaving the Land of Kanan in order to escape the Limit of Questions, the Scub Coral sought a new place to exist. That was the driving factor for using Quartz: to get to a new universe. To put it this way, the Scub Coral, through its emotions, expressed its desire to leave the universe of E7 through the Quartz, which resonated and brought it to the universe of AO. Therefore, its ability to traverse through time and universes is a result of expressing its emotions (the will to survive is, after all, a powerful driving force), and the Quartz fulfilled that strong desire. The same can be applied to Eureka. As Renton states (mentioned within the first two minutes of episode 24), Eureka's strong emotions (to protect Ao) and her strong desire to specifically take the Quartz to a safer time and place caused the Quartz to react. Eureka’s case presents two interesting observations. The first is that while Quartz responds to strong emotions, expressing them through broad (and ambiguous) desires leads to unintended consequences. Eureka was brought to a different time and place, but that raw desire was so strong and unspecific that it had the consequence of her hopping to and from different times/places, forever in limbo. After all, the Quartz did as she had wanted, technically speaking. Conversely, if one has strong emotions and voices a specific desire to the Quartz Gun (Ao wanting to be taken back to Eureka just before she turned herself into Quartz), then it will fulfill it. The second observation is that the world, or rather what is hit by the Gun, is only changed insofar as the desire of the "wish". I’ll explain with an example. Ao knew that the satellite carrying the Quartz was going to hit the Norway plant and desperately wanted to find a way to protect everyone from harm. The Quartz manifested itself as a weapon for Ao. One would assume that Ao’s emotions were expressing something like, “I want the power to protect everybody living near the Norway plant, especially Chloe and Maeve.” The specifics behind “protecting” someone are impossible to figure out in such a sweeping desire, so this once again leads to the assertion that the Quartz Gun, in the absence of a specific, pointed desire, changes the world with some unintended consequences. In this case, if Chloe and Maeve never had anything to do with the plant in Norway (especially how they came from there and had family there, and Ao knew this), they would never be in danger; therefore, the Quartz changed the world in a way were the Norway plant never existed and that they never had a reason to ever get in harm’s way. If circumstances preempted them being there, they would never be in danger in the first place, and so this can explain why the plant did not exist in the new world. Finally, though this could have already been derived from context, the Quartz Gun has the innate ability to let the user traverse through Scub Bursts that occur throughout time/space. Also, since Eureka is part Coralian herself, she supposedly has Quartz, but more importantly can manipulate it in its natural state. With that out of the way, I can address at least one specific criticism to the Gun as a plot device and at the same time debunk previous outrageous claims. TheMaverickk said: The Quartz Gun is used on Truth in episode 23.... according to the logic of the show that means he never existed, especially as a Secret. If that is the case then every event that involved him, never happened. For example Naru getting whisked away by Truth. She would've never been shown that being around the scubs made her feel better, she would've never learned the truth about the origin of the scubs... so on and so on... she wouldn't have become a terrorist such as what is implied in episode 23 after the quartz guns use. Rather than “erasing” events/people/things and the flow of them, I am actually of the opinion that the Quartz Gun “alters” them through the user’s emotions and expressed desires (naturally, one could desire to erase, thereby altering events that way, but my distinction stands). Here are a few things I noticed that helped me lead to this conclusion. In the world after the first time the Gun was shot, one would assume that if Team Goldilocks never existed, their IFO’s would have never have been built (no pilots, no IFO). However, when Elena decides to defect, she takes Credo. Credo was explained to have been something along the lines of a prototype IFO undergoing testing, but we all know that it was one of the IFO’s of Team Goldilocks. Another example is that in episode 23, Naru got her Nirvash Spec 2’s arm shot off by Truth. In fact, the animation shows blood (?) spraying out of its arms and then the Nirvash falls down. In the world after Truth shoots the Quartz Gun (same episode), Ao is the one who shoots Naru in the arm; the same animation is shown, and Naru’s Nirvash falls down in similar fashion. What these examples showed to me was that even if someone/something was removed from the world as a result of using the Quartz Gun, the events would arrange themselves in a way that brings about a similar outcome in the world after firing the Gun. To put it another way: even if Truth did not exist in this world, some other catalyst would have made Naru a coral-carrier. After all, she is still in the Nirvash Spec 2 and a pro-Scub bio-terrorist when Ao changes the world for a second time. Of course, even with all this said, there are a number of large conceptual issues that still need addressing, of which I lack. For example, does the Quartz Gun affect the entire fabric of that iteration of the universe or does it simply create a new “perceived” reality starting from the point-in-time the Gun was fired? Also, how would it affect those coming from different universes/times/places? There are a few others, but I think I will touch upon them later. A final note: the ideas discussed earlier in this thread that Bones (really, Aikawa Shou, the series composer/main script writer) "trolled" us is a ridiculous argument, as are a lot of previous arguments regarding the plot and characters and how they all tie together. I'll address them in due course. Finally, that Eureka AO's ending conflicts with or "erases" the ending of PoP:E7 is simply false; in fact, AO is the answer to the original's ending. The short version: a utopian, fairy-tale ending where dreams come true vs. a harsh and bittersweet reality filled with light and dark shades of gray. If you want the long version, ask for it. Also check out and understand the context of Eureka Seven: New Order. See? That's why most like the anime ending. |
Kjeldoran109Aug 12, 2013 10:35 PM
Kjeldoran said: xPreatorianx said: snip - #350 Speaking of the Quartz Gun, I have a working-theory on how the Quartz Gun functions, so in the process of explaining it, I can attempt to address some of the controversy surrounding its role as a plot device. To start off, here are the objective facts regarding Quartz and the Quartz Gun:
As we all learned through the plot, the Quartz Gun has the power to change the world in a big way. In what way or how it does so is not explicitly stated, but the observed consequence is that the gun can alter the past. With no further explanations as to its use or true functions, if we only had just this to go by, then this would obviously be problematic. But that is not entirely the case. In episode 24 (at 15:22 to be precise), Truth states that, "The emotions of intelligent creatures make the Quartz resonate." So what does Truth mean by "resonate" (going with the GG subs translation as I can't clearly hear what words he says)? It could mean a lot of things, and thus the floodgates to the realm of speculation are opened, which is what follows. So here's my theory. Quartz certainly has the ability to let the user traverse time and universes, but I argue that Quartz is a substance that has the ability to bend to the will of the user and make expressed emotions a reality, to a certain extent. Furthermore, I argue that this is the Quartz's primary function; that is, “resonating” with the user, an intelligent creature, and conceptualizing its emotions. It would then follow that the specific ability that allows the user to traverse time and universes is a byproduct of the primary function. I’m basically saying that it is incorrect assume that the Quartz Gun only has the power to change the world by erasing events/people/places. So let’s put it to application. There is the conceptual hurdle of how and why the Scub Coral came to be able to produce or acquire the Quartz, but let’s set that aside. Leaving the Land of Kanan in order to escape the Limit of Questions, the Scub Coral sought a new place to exist. That was the driving factor for using Quartz: to get to a new universe. To put it this way, the Scub Coral, through its emotions, expressed its desire to leave the universe of E7 through the Quartz, which resonated and brought it to the universe of AO. Therefore, its ability to traverse through time and universes is a result of expressing its emotions (the will to survive is, after all, a power driving force), and the Quartz fulfilled that strong desire. The same can be applied to Eureka. As Renton states (mentioned within the first two minutes of episode 24), Eureka's strong emotions (to protect Ao) and her strong desire to specifically take the Quartz to a safer time and place caused the Quartz to react. Eureka’s case presents two interesting observations. The first is that while Quartz responds to strong emotions, expressing them through broad (and ambiguous) desires leads to unintended consequences. Eureka was brought to a different time and place, but that raw desire was so strong and unspecific that it had the consequence of her hopping to and from different times/places, forever in limbo. After all, the Quartz did as she had wanted, technically. On the opposite spectrum, if one has strong emotions and voices a specific desire to the Quartz Gun (Ao wanting to be taken back to Eureka just before she turned herself into Quartz), then it will fulfill it. The second observation is that the world, or rather what is hit by the Gun, is only changed insofar as the desire of the wish. I’ll explain with an example. Ao knew that the satellite carrying the Quartz was going to hit the Norway plant and desperately wanted to find a way to protect everyone from harm. The Quartz manifested itself as a weapon for Ao. One would assume that Ao’s emotions were expressing something like, “I want the power to protect everybody living near the Norway plant, especially Chloe and Maeve.” The specifics behind “protecting” someone are impossible to figure out in such a sweeping desire, so this once again leads to the assertion that the Quartz Gun, in the absence of a specific, pointed desire, changes the world with some unintended consequences. In this case, if Chloe and Maeve never had anything to do with the plant in Norway (especially how they came from there and had family there, and Ao knows this), they would never be in danger; therefore, the Quartz changed the world in a way were no plant existed there and that they never had a reason to ever get in harm’s way. If circumstances preempted them being there, they would never be in danger in the first place, and thus this can explain why the plant did not exist in the new world. Finally, although this could have already been derived from context, the Quartz Gun has the innate ability to let the user traverse through Scub Bursts that occur throughout time/space. Also, since Eureka is part Coralian herself, she supposedly has Quartz, but more importantly can manipulate it in its natural state. With that out of the way, I can address at least one specific criticism to the Gun as a plot device… TheMaverickk said: The Quartz Gun is used on Truth in episode 23.... according to the logic of the show that means he never existed, especially as a Secret. If that is the case then every event that involved him, never happened. For example Naru getting whisked away by Truth. She would've never been shown that being around the scubs made her feel better, she would've never learned the truth about the origin of the scubs... so on and so on... she wouldn't have become a terrorist such as what is implied in episode 23 after the quartz guns use. Rather than “erasing” events/people/things and the flow of them, I am actually of the opinion that the Quartz Gun “alters” them through the user’s emotions and expressed desires (naturally, one could desire to erase, thereby altering events that way, but my distinction stands). Here are a few things I noticed that helped me lead to this conclusion. In the world after the first time the Gun was shot, one would assume that if Team Goldilocks never existed, their IFO’s would have never have been built (no pilots, no IFO). However, when Elena decides to defect, she takes Credo. Credo was explained to have been something along the lines of a prototype IFO undergoing testing, but we all know that it was one of the IFO’s of Team Goldilocks. Another example is that in episode 23, Naru got her Nirvash Spec 2’s arm shot off by Truth. In fact, the animation shows blood (?) spraying out of its arms and then the Nirvash falls down. In the world after Truth shoots the Quartz Gun (same episode), Ao is the one who shoots Naru in the arm; the same animation is shown, and Naru’s Nirvash falls down in similar fashion. What these examples showed to me was that even if someone/something was removed from the world as a result of using the Quartz Gun, the events would arrange themselves in a way that brings about a similar outcome in the world after firing the Gun. To put it another way: even if Truth did not exist in this world, some other catalyst would have made Naru a coral-carrier. After all, she is still in the Nirvash Spec 2 and a pro-Scub bio-terrorist when Ao changes the world for a second time. Of course, even with what I have thus far alone, there are a number of big conceptual issues that would need to be addressed. For example, does the Quartz Gun affect the entire fabric of that iteration of the universe or does it simply create a new “perceived” reality starting from the point-in-time the Gun was fired? Also, how would it affect those coming from different universes/times/places? There are a few others, but I think I will save these for another time, should there even be anybody remotely interested in such a discussion. All of this is already a lot to chew on in one sitting. Hell, even I didn’t want to be this long-winded. Also, I hardly fancy myself as a logician, so there are bound to be some errors in my reasoning. Nonetheless, I’m still interested in seeing how my theory holds up, but that’s assuming that anyone actually has the interest in discussing this, much less the interest to read this wall of text in the first place... Naru's nirvash spurted blood when its arm was cut off because it had an archetype ala TypeZero. All LFO's in E7 had Archetypes and thus bled. But in AO only the special ones did (all Nirvash variants by the end of the series and Truth's IFO.) About everything else - now that I think about it the whole thing makes sense now. I'd type more but I'm on a laptop and its sensitive as hell. But tomorrow I'll hook this up to my comp monitor and K&M to give a proper reply and go over the analysis. |
xPreatorianxDec 12, 2012 2:28 PM
| Are you sure its blood? Sure it has an Archetype but if i remember correctly the mon-soono's would also gush up allot of dark-red stuff when their limbs were dismembered. I always figured it was oil, or grease or whatever fuel it needs to keep the thing going |
xPreatorianx said: Naru's nirvash spurted blood when its arm was cut off because it had an archetype ala TypeZero. All LFO's in E7 had Archetypes and thus bled. But in AO only the special ones did (all Nirvash variants by the end of the series and Truth's IFO.) I was actually just expressing my uncertainty as to whether you could call that blood or not. I guess it technically would be since Coralians (archetypes) are living things. But yes, I already knew that Naru's Nirvash was the same Nirvash Spec 2 with an archetype that Eureka arrived in back in episode 12. ZappaBappa said: Are you sure its blood? Sure it has an Archetype but if i remember correctly the mon-soono's would also gush up allot of dark-red stuff when their limbs were dismembered. I always figured it was oil, or grease or whatever fuel it needs to keep the thing going Well, given that LFO's are bio-mechanical in that there's mechanical parts built over the frame of the archetype's "skeleton," it could be any mix of blood, oil, and other gunk. So yes, technically, since those archetypes in the Mon-Soonos are "alive," they should have blood, or whatever you want to call it. |
Kjeldoran109Aug 12, 2013 10:38 PM
| This was more confusing than a doctor who episode. Still enjoyed the series, but that ending was a clusterf*ck. Don't know what else I can really say except don't mess with time. |
 |
| Forgive me for not having the mental fortitude for reading these walls of text at the moment, but I wanted to point out that Fleur may most likely remember Ao; her third engine was activated at the time he went through the light, and changed their universe - due to her synchronization with the quartz in her IFO, her memories, much like Ao, will have been mostly or completely unaffected by the third and final blast of the quartz cannon due to the beacon-effect it has on the mind; hence, the relation to the "anthropic principal". |
DangerrDec 13, 2012 8:18 PM
| I found this series to be enjoyable, but these last two episodes show that the timing of the story was completely off. Episode 23 & 24 just about undid everything that was done in the previous episodes. They should have condensed the first part and expanded on the time traveling and universe jumping part. There was a lot more to this series than I initially thought, and it could have been amazing if writers would have focused on the right things. I would still love to see another series come out of the Eureka 7 universe, but I wonder if they’ll do that after AO. |
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