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| Pretty great episode! I also, agree with the theory that Ledo has time traveled to the past, and is the one who creates the Hideauze threat, by attacking the Whalesquid. We are over halfway through the series, and its hard to guess where this is going, which is the way I like it. Also, on the Captains heart attack, he's old for one, and stress can cause tension on the heart, it'd be understandable for him to experience a heart attack, due to the idea of the fracturing of the fleet. Sure, it's kind of convenient, but it isn't impossible. Plus, there isn't any proof that he has died. |
| Finally, something is happening! Good episode, so this is really environmental anime like Nausicaa after all. |
Takuan_Soho said: StopDropAndBowl said: Almost every single one of the "glaring contradictions in the plot" you listed thus far were either misunderstandings of the story by you, or pretty ridiculous assumptions. None of them were what I would consider valid. LOL, care to name one? The only partial "misunderstanding" I have had was over the use of "nanotechnology" and even there I still had episode 2 to justify my confusion. I can't help if the writer contradicts what he had previously written with no justification or explanation. You misunderstood the difference between a tiny octopus and the enormous whale-squid. You assume that because some people revere the beast in some fashion, that this reverence must take the form of a fanatical worship for all people, and that any action or intention to oppose the common reverence must result in zealotry and revulsion so powerful that the heretic be ripped to shreds for his/her sin. You misunderstood the nature of their power source for the same reasons: you take the first thing said or revealed by the show and file it away as gospel truth without thinking about who is doing the saying or revealing. Who shows no reverence for the whale-squids? The man who's brother was killed by them. Who tells us that the power comes from life-forms? The uneducated populace of Gargantia. What form does the reverance of the whale-squids take? Did everyone rush out and celebrate the coming of the pod? No. They fled. They hid. They panicked. They revere the thing because it frightens them. Because to anger it is to invite destruction and death upon themselves. There would, of course, be some who don't hold that same fear, or wish to destroy the source of that fear. And when those people, who would naturally exist, decide to leave, those who hold a reverence caused by fear point guns at them to prevent them from leaving. You're assertions and complaints were addressed in the EXACT MANNER YOU SUGGESTED THEY SHOULD BE! You assume, incorrectly, that a society where scarcity is a threat (find me a society where it isn't) would have no reason to celebrate in times of bounty. You seem to assume that a society where scarcity is a threat has no times of bounty. Otherwise your criticism of that makes no sense. You seem to be under the misunderstanding that there was wide acceptance of Ledo's/Pinion's desire to hunt in whale-squid territory. In fact, all indications seem to point to that not happening. The majority of people find it to be a bad idea, an unacceptable risk, entirely out of the question. Only a select few are willing to go; and in society there will always be those who are willing to take unfathomable risks to gain profit. You blame Bellows for not... doing something about Ledo before the whale-squid? I don't know what you expect her to do that would matter. She explains that it's a harmless octopus, calms him down, and then makes a joke about a whale-squid. She probably assumes that she'll be able to talk him down again next time, JUST LIKE SHE DID THAT TIME. And she probably would have been able to, IF Chamber hadn't confirmed it as Hideauze. And how is she supposed to know that the whale-squid, is, in fact, Hideauze? As far as she knows, the Hideauze are something that Ledo doesn't like that don't exist on Earth and he sometimes freaks out a bit about them. She would be perfectly reasonable to assume that she could, if needed, calm Ledo down if he ever sees a whale-squid and explain all about them. The only reason she couldn't is because she doesn't have full information. Further, you accuse her of not warning him in advance that attacking the whale-squid could be deadly. Uh... have you been watching this show? For the entire time he's been there, they have been telling him non-stop to think about his actions before he flies off the handle and to listen to them before he does things. Unless the person is mentally handicapped, you'd assume that he would have gotten the point already. Ledo isn't mentally handicapped, and he probably would have listened, only he went into full soldier mode the second it was confirmed to be Hideauze. NO ONE ON GARGANTIA KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT THE HIDEAUZE!!!!! They don't know Ledo's past with them, they don't know the extent to which he will react if he is reminded of them, and they would have no reason to believe that Ledo hadn't already learned his lesson when the pirate situation went down. And for reference, do you think prior warning would have mattered to Ledo when Chamber confirms it to be Hideauze? I'll tell you right now that it wouldn't. He would have done the exact same thing for the exact same reasons. You completely miss the reference to the energy coming from nano-machines and then you blame the writer for not re-reiterating it all. Sorry, but good writing does not entail explaining in detail every single plot-point. Don't blame the writer and director for your mistake. There. I have gone through every single one of your criticisms, one by one, and found not a single one that did not include some kind of misunderstanding or flawed assumption. |
| Let's go bowling. |
| This episode took quite the turn of events! From Ledo learning how to live with the earthlings, only to be reminded what his true purpose of life is when seeing that sea monster. Loving every second of this show |
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| Brilliant Episode!!! Things are starting to get slightly serious as Ledo fights and kills the Hideauze or called 'Whalesquid' by the people on Gargantia. Seems like everyone is surprised and they are apparently ancient creatures and Bellows seems to be in a bad mood for this accident. Only Pinion seems to be find this exciting as he plans to salvage 'Whalesquid's territory' along with some allies Flange and most likely Ledo. I think Amy also starts to see Ledo more than just a friend as she attempts to stop Ledo from attacking the 'Whalesquids' and that moment when they swarmed past through Gargantia was pretty intense in my opinion. An interesting thing is that Ledo discovered the same type of flute that he made attached on Chamber possibly from the battle with the 'Whalesquid' so it may potentially relate to the mystery. The Commodore Fearokku is having problems with his health and at a time like this being crucial, how will Gargantia deal with all these problems!? Looking forward to see how this progresses in the next episode!! 5/5 |
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CallMeIshmael said: Spirai said: We haven't seen a mass of them show interest in discovering new things or studying new technology. For example, ever since Ledo popped out of Chamber and started getting along with the natives, no one has bothered to ask him about perhaps examining Chamber. And guts? To go again? To do what? What do you want a war? And we haven't just invented the flat screen tv. We've made a new computer interface called the sixth sense and a retinal implant for the blind. We've invented new fabrics from raw silk, successfully made an electronic bloodhound, the world's smallest ink jet printer, high altitude flying windmills, smog-earing cement, and bionic contacts. We've progressed quite a bit- even in things you might find silly like making a tv flatter. But from those advancements, we're able to improve other areas of life and other inventions. Don't underestimate our society just because you live here and choose to be blind to all the innovation and abundant creativity around you. On making flat fucking TVs electronic bloodhound - miniaturized GCMS world's smallest ink jet printer - miniaturized inkjet bionic contacts - miniaturized circuit in contact lens In other words, flatter TVs new fabrics, smog-eating cement - useful, hardly something to brag about "progress" high altitude flying windmill - probably more hype sixth sense user interface - definitely hype The Haber Process, Teflon®, and Public Key Cryptography (Computers as well) were actual innovations, and they required a significant infrastructure - both physical and cultural. Gargantia seems to be a village of about 10,000, far too small to have the resources, so the whole salvaging business is a clever bit of writing. Even assuming they had preserved knowledge about quantum mechanics, electronic engineering, etc, they only way that examining Chamber could've affected anything would need some EXTREME Hollywood Hacking to gloss over a one man Manhattan Project scale job. Exactly. You want to tell me we are making real progress other than what we made during the cold war and after WWII? Call me when you put nanomachines inside people that kill all sickness, hell call me when you cure AIDS and cancer, Call me when you make a robot that can wash my dishes and take out the garbage. Call me when my fucking laptop battery can go for a year and my freaking car needs no gas and nothing that will force me to stop at a station and fill it with. And call me when you put a man on Mars. For now shut up because all the fucking progress i hear is always in the laps and never seems to get out of them. Our current society only makes progress on whatever trivial things can be profit exploitable and kills progress as it stands in anything that will destroy profit margins with the resold of progress being stand still in the face of less money making, fear of system change, copyrights and lack of vision. We ain't any better at all. |
| Wondering if the Commodore will be the 1st good guy to die =/ I'm guessing Ledo and Pinion will get into trouble because of their decision.. |
Claude_KennyMay 20, 2013 2:33 PM
| Keep moving forward |
Monad said: Exactly. You want to tell me we are making real progress other than what we made during the cold war and after WWII? Call me when you put nanomachines inside people that kill all sickness, hell call me when you cure AIDS and cancer, Call me when you make a robot that can wash my dishes and take out the garbage. Call me when my fucking laptop battery can go for a year and my freaking car needs no gas and nothing that will force me to stop at a station and fill it with. And call me when you put a man on Mars. For now shut up because all the fucking progress i hear is always in the laps and never seems to get out of them. Our current society only makes progress on whatever trivial things can be profit exploitable and kills progress as it stands in anything that will destroy profit margins with the resold of progress being stand still in the face of less money making, fear of system change, copyrights and lack of vision. We ain't any better at all. We have (theoretical) cures (using the word loosely, but we can prevent it from being lethal.. theoretically) for aids and cancer btw :D In fact, most of human development has been held back because of, arguably evil, individuals and organizations. Did you know light bulbs could run for hundred of years, before the industry fucked with it? http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/light-bulb-conspiracy/ Wordsmith said: There are many animals on this world that can and will attack, and possibly kill, a human if provoked. Shall we exterminate them as well? You know, just to be on the safe side. While I haven't really picked a side yet, and I'm sure the empire has plenty of skeletons in the closet, this argument is.. bad. Yes, a Lion might maul and kill you if you walk up to it and kick it in the face. It will not, however, organize Lion-kind and maul all of humanity to death. Exblaster said: i swear so many people here are so impatient and spoiled... complaining about the "slice of life" or the fanserice anime fandom is getting worse each passing year This is about as intelligent of an argument as the people going "hurr durr people are idiots for criticizing modern game graphics. Back in my day we had 2D sprites and we were fine, everyone are dumb". Standards will go up as the quality does. Deal with it. |
XartaXMay 20, 2013 2:35 PM
Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
XartaX said: Monad said: Exactly. You want to tell me we are making real progress other than what we made during the cold war and after WWII? Call me when you put nanomachines inside people that kill all sickness, hell call me when you cure AIDS and cancer, Call me when you make a robot that can wash my dishes and take out the garbage. Call me when my fucking laptop battery can go for a year and my freaking car needs no gas and nothing that will force me to stop at a station and fill it with. And call me when you put a man on Mars. For now shut up because all the fucking progress i hear is always in the laps and never seems to get out of them. Our current society only makes progress on whatever trivial things can be profit exploitable and kills progress as it stands in anything that will destroy profit margins with the resold of progress being stand still in the face of less money making, fear of system change, copyrights and lack of vision. We ain't any better at all. We have (theoretical) cures (using the word loosely, but we can prevent it from being lethal.. theoretically) for aids and cancer btw :D In fact, most of human development has been held back because of, arguably evil, individuals and organizations. Did you know light bulbs could run for hundred of years, before the industry fucked with it? http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/light-bulb-conspiracy/ Exactly we have "treatments" not cures. The reason we have treatments is because they need to be constant. If an AIDS patient can be kept alive but still not being cured and having to constantly pay for meds and treatments then that's good profit. The guy will be paying as long as he lives. If he can be cured with a single pill or shot then it's bad for profits. That's how our society does things now. |
| Shit's tense! I wonder if either Ledo or the fleet will ever change their views. |
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| I know this is hard for Ledo since he is a soldier and he is trained to kill the Hideazeu. But I am with the Gargantia people. He should just leave them be since they are not doing any harm anyway.. And I almost held my breathe when those pod of whalesquids passes by. Good thing Ledo did not do something.. the suspense! |
Monad said: XartaX said: Monad said: Exactly. You want to tell me we are making real progress other than what we made during the cold war and after WWII? Call me when you put nanomachines inside people that kill all sickness, hell call me when you cure AIDS and cancer, Call me when you make a robot that can wash my dishes and take out the garbage. Call me when my fucking laptop battery can go for a year and my freaking car needs no gas and nothing that will force me to stop at a station and fill it with. And call me when you put a man on Mars. For now shut up because all the fucking progress i hear is always in the laps and never seems to get out of them. Our current society only makes progress on whatever trivial things can be profit exploitable and kills progress as it stands in anything that will destroy profit margins with the resold of progress being stand still in the face of less money making, fear of system change, copyrights and lack of vision. We ain't any better at all. We have (theoretical) cures (using the word loosely, but we can prevent it from being lethal.. theoretically) for aids and cancer btw :D In fact, most of human development has been held back because of, arguably evil, individuals and organizations. Did you know light bulbs could run for hundred of years, before the industry fucked with it? http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/light-bulb-conspiracy/ Exactly we have "treatments" not cures. The reason we have treatments is because they need to be constant. If an AIDS patient can be kept alive but still not being cured and having to constantly pay for meds and treatments then that's good profit. The guy will be paying as long as he lives. If he can be cured with a single pill or shot then it's bad for profits. That's how our society does things now. But my point is we have theoretical cures. Ish. I have a microbiologist mate that goes on and on about it, it's just not profitable (and scare-tactics are used to prevent it from being used) thus it's not done (basically you can program a virus to destroy all the cells in a body you do not want to be there. Once it's killed all the target cells it dies off. It's kinda complex and I only got the gist of it. If you're interested PM me and I'll ask him for a better explanation). So contrary to what was said we have made great developments - they're just not made ready for public use yet. |
XartaXMay 20, 2013 4:02 PM
Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Assume? The Sub Commander was the one who said it, she also said that she was worried about how people would react as the rumor spread through the fleet. So in your first two "examples" you confused me, and then you ignored what the writer wrote. The Sub-Commander said that the creature was revered and that killing it was frowned upon. They never said or implied that it was analogous with killing a god, or that the whale-squid is worshiped, or that anyone who even thinks about killing it will be torn to shreds. The Bible is revered. 99% of people in a relatively advanced culture will not tear you to shreds because you spit on the Bible. Gargantia is relatively advanced. Have you ever studied anthropology? Or even stereotypes. How exactly do the villagers think about the volcano they live next to: they hold it in fear and awe. The problem here is that you are comparing the Gargantians to ancient man. They are primitive in comparison with Ledo, they are not (very) primitive in comparison with modern man, in some ways they are more advanced. You heard the word: "revered" and instantly supplied the idea of deity and worship; nowhere in the anime was it suggested that they see the whale-squids as gods, as the source of their energy, or that they worship them. YOU supplied all that, not the writer, and it seems you were incorrect. Uhm, he got a hearing with the fleet commander to talk about doing it. Who immediately said no, not going to happen. And yes, it is going to happen. And? They asked permission, the majority/leadership said no, they're going to ignore the majority/leadership. Your whole point was originally that everyone was suddenly fine with them going off to kill whale-squids when the exact opposite was true: they were told in no uncertain terms that they wouldn't be allowed to do so. It seems the Commander will be out of commission, and honestly they couldn't stop Ledo anyway, so yes... they will almost certainly be going. That's not the point. The point is that there was no inconsistency in the character's reactions. The people who wanted to go still want to go and the people who don't want them to go still didn't want them to go. but it is going to happen and no one will try to stop them Can they stop them? They already pointed guns at Ledo (I like how you ignored that) to stop him from going. Now that he has allies... it will be harder to justify pointing guns at them. (Can't kill everyone) But again, them not stopping Ledo and Pinion would not, in any way, justify your criticisms. Given all that, pulling Ledo aside, showing him a picture of a whalesquid (or describing it to him) and saying "hey when we go underwater tomorrow and you see something like this, whatever you do DON'T KILL IT. Doesn't seem to be that much of a stretch. You ignored me last time: Would that have stopped Ledo from attacking the whale-squid? Also, you're assuming that seeing whale-squids are common occurrences that she should expect to encounter. You are assuming that she knows he will not listen to her when he sees a whale-squid. He listened to her the first time with the octopus, why would she assume he wouldn't listen the next time? Further, how does she know that Chamber will confirm it as a Hideauze? If Chamber hadn't, then Ledo probably wouldn't have killed it, he would have stopped just like with the octopus when Bellows freaked out and screamed at him to stop. You have perfect knowledge and are expecting the character to also have perfect knowledge when they don't. And also, since when was Bellows (19-20 year old) established as the world's smartest person? This is a pretty weak "criticism" even if we accept that she should know all the particulars, which she clearly couldn't have. Thanks for again proving my point. You are saying she knows he has the habit of taking action before thinking, but she didn't think to prepare him for an encounter with an animal the fleet finds sacred and which could destroy them if they want. So you didn't pay attention to the show when they said: "A pod has never come this close to the surface before!" When he killed the squid, they weren't all saying: "Oh my god, they're gonna wipe us out now!" They were worried about people's reactions when the word got out. Why are you assuming that they knew a pod would or even could come up to surface to destroy them if attacked by Ledo? The show implies pretty heavily that this was a surprising development for them. And she has spent the entire time he's been on Gargantia repeatedly preparing him for that exact situation. and once again, since you ignore this point continuously: HE WOULD HAVE LISTENED TO HER IF CHAMBER HADN'T CONFIRMED IT AS BEING HIDEAUZE!!!!!!!!!! You know, you are quoting me. I said that back in post 156. I suggest you re-read it. Now a good writer would have made some sort of explanation for this (like having chamber say that the people on the boat thought they were living creatures, but they were really nanomachines) No... a good writer would have done EXACTLY what they did, which is to have the fucking damn-near omnipotent robot point out the truth and expect the audience to get that the robot with micro-scanners 10,000 years more advanced than the Gargantians probably has a better idea of what is actually causing the energy! A good writer would not, and did not, have Chamber Barney-style it by openly saying that the Gargantians were wrong, because that is implied pretty heavily. So, you have confused my argument with other people, you ignore information that the show itself provides, and then you task me for pointing out this inconsistencies you have overlooked, About sums it up, don't you think? I confused one, irrelevant argument (the one I spent the least time refuting, if you'll notice). I didn't ignore information the show provided, I actually paid WAY more attention than you did, apparently. And I tasked you with pointing out a single inconsistency that actually is an inconsistency. NOT a "Well this character didn't do this thing, so that's inconsistent." When did that character ever do that thing before? If they didn't, no inconsistency. NOT, "Well they said revere so I thought of how primitive, pre-historic man was with volcanoes, so that's what it was even though these aren't volcanoes and these aren't primitive people." They didn't say: "Oh my Whale-Squid! He killed GOD!!! He will bring the wrath of GOD!!!!" They never implied any kind of worship. YOU put that in with no evidence whatsoever and instead of changing your opinion when the evidence against it shows up, you just keep stubbornly insisting that your interpretation was actually correct when it clearly wasn't. There are some valid criticisms to be made about this show, but you're straight off the deep end with this stuff. |
| Let's go bowling. |
| Also the only thing I kinda think is stupid is how they threaten Ledo at gunpoint. He's made clear, and their observations back this up, that they are no threat to him. Whatsoever. He could easily wipe them out. By threatening him at gunpoint, they aren't really threatening HIM, but saying "if you want to go against us, you have to kill us". Which is a fucking retarded thing to do against someone you know nothing about. I'm honestly surprised Ledo didn't just go "fuck it", shoot her, and fly off (and even if his character wouldn't want to do this, how on Earth can they be sure of that!?). I know he was worried about supplies and stuff, but he has confirmed that there are others around now, so he doesn't require their help to survive (and part of the fleet wants to leave with him anyways). I doubt everyone on Earth would be as dumb as this woman (heck, going by the law of animu, that pirate woman is probably in love with him now). ^ btw Iran is relatively advanced as well (certainly ahead of Gargantia). Try spitting on the Quran in the streets of Teheran. I'll leave it at that note before this turns into a bible fight, heh. |
XartaXMay 20, 2013 4:23 PM
Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| kill that whalesquid! hoping for some juicy action in the next episode. nice episode though.. hoping amy don't come along for the salvage.. please. |
| Mmmmm I find it hard that they can't sympathize with Ledo all to much conisdering he has been fighting against the enemy for his entire life and then they expect him to just lie down and let it go when he discovers them on earth |
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jack2727 said: Mmmmm I find it hard that they can't sympathize with Ledo all to much conisdering he has been fighting against the enemy for his entire life and then they expect him to just lie down and let it go when he discovers them on earth they don't know the whalesquids like he does, so its only natural that they don't understand. but they could try to see why he's so upset though.. |
| Not enough squid killing in this episode. Hopefully the next one rectifies this problem. |
| Expecting whalesquid tentacle doujinshis now... Oh how glorious. |
| Was surfing over on Animesuki and it's been confirmed that the Hideauze DO consume energy. But indeed it's a very advanced type of energy, and so it might go back to what Red was saying that the Hideauze doesn't attack Gargantia yet because they haven't developed enough. The Hideauze might though be going along the galaxy sea because the nanites in the water use a more advanced type of energy? |
Paul said: This must be what it's like at the end of the road, you start with vanilla and eventually succumb to NTR, and then... this.Expecting whalesquid tentacle doujinshis now... Oh how glorious. |
Takuan_Soho said: I like your use of "relatively" twice meaning you know you already lost and are trying to avoid the obvious counter example "spitting on the Koran". But I guess they are not "relatively advanced", eh? Or if you were to go to India and butcher a cow in the middle of the street. But India isn't "relatively advanced" either. Besides weren't you the person last episode who called the people on Gargantia "uneducated". How can uneducated people be "relatively advanced"? Inquiring minds want to know. I used relatively as a qualifier. From Ledo's perspective, they are not advanced at all. From our perspective, they are somewhat advanced and somewhat primitive. To ancient man, they are very advanced. Thus, they could be called relatively advanced. And I believe I said: "relatively uneducated". A society of people whom are relatively uneducated can be relatively advanced. And for the record, does Gargantia seem like the kind of culture that breeds fanaticism and violence to you? Is there any indication that a cultural comparison with the Middle East or India is more apt than a cultural comparison with the USA or Japan? I would argue that Gargantia doesn't fit in with the stereotype of a culture that responds with either fanaticism or violence to many things at all. No, just to man. Threaten people's livelihood, and we will see how "primitive" they become. In what way are the whale-squids the people's livelihoods. In fact, the whale-squids are what threaten their livelihood... this supports my point that there would be those who don't revere the whale-squids, and that even among those who do revere them to some degree, there would be some who would not be terribly concerned if there was a way to eliminate the threat completely. Leaving aside the scene were some people were actually praying when the whalesquids passed underneath, (cut) I repeated what the show actually said: that people viewed them as sacred, that killing was considered inauspicious, and that there was the chance of violence when word got out. They could easily be praying because they think they're going to die. There is no indication that they are praying TO the whale-squids. And nothing mean there would be NO ONE who would suggest eliminating the whale-squids (only Ledo was really suggesting this) or harvesting the treasure within their territory (what Pinion and everyone else in his group were suggesting). You used all of this as justification for your criticism that Pinion would NEVER talk about harvesting the treasure inside the whale-squid territory if they revered whale-squids. There is absolutely no reason to think this would be the case. Irrelevant considering the point you were trying to make, and I am predicting that next episode Pinon and Ledo and Bellows will make it happen. Okay... you and everyone else (including me) watching the show are making that prediction. What does that have to do with anything? Never said that. I said that given the fear the subcommander talked about Pinon would never have openly talked about offending them. Talk to the commander I could see, but not in public. My point about the commander considering it was in reply to the point you made, which is wrong. Why not? There are people who talk openly about all kinds of socially unacceptable things without being torn to shreds. Also: 1. They weren't talking about it in "public", there was five of them talking about it amongst themselves. And all of them except Pinion thought it was a bad idea. 2. The commander wasn't considering it. He straight up said: No, I will not allow you to leave. Your contradicting yourself again. Your last point you were the one who said that no one was seriously thinking about doing this except Pinon, now you are talking about how they have allies. I never said only Pinion and Ledo wanted to do this... I said the majority didn't want them to do it, and the majority didn't want them to. Ledo and Pinion are the only ones who show any kind of emnity toward the whale-squids and even Pinion seems more concerned with getting the treasure than eliminating them. There is no contradiction of attitudes here: the vast majority revere and fear the whale-squids, Pinion and Ledo and a select few do not. The expedition is going to need ships to support the submersibles. I doubt seriously if the leadership opposed the expedition they would let a ship leave the fleet. But I am confident that the writer will gloss over this point. Battleships be damned. Hence my point that it would be difficult to stop a large section of your ships (keep in mind that a large section of ships can be owned by one man or a small group of men/women) from leaving if they didn't want to be stopped. They could threaten violence, but that threat would necessarily be empty as the ramifications of using violence against a segment of your population (even if it is a minority) could lead to the collapse of all order. Why do you think the writer will just gloss over this point, especially considering the next episodes title is "Separation" which seems to imply it will be entirely devoted to this exact plot-point? Maybe, maybe not, but don't you think she should have tried instead of going "hey, wait stop" after the fact? Are we arguing what she ideally should have done, or are we arguing about whether it was inconsistent/unbelievable that she didn't? It seemed perfectly consistent with her character (it was not inconsistent), and it is relatively reasonable of her, as I will explain in a moment. Irrelevant. First we don't know, but everyone who deals with underwater seems to know all about them. Everyone knows about them, period. That could easily be because the small amount of people who have seen them tell stories. But as you said: we don't know. Evidence suggests that it is a rare occurrence as they were not diving in whale-squid territory, she seemed surprised to see one, and no one mentioned them before the last episode and that was in passing. To go back to the polar bear example: suppose there was only a 1% chance of being mauled by the bear, wouldn't you still want to know? The polar bear example doesn't work here. Polar bears are aggressive: they will attack you without you instigating the attack. The whale-squid does not do so. Polar bears are also non-territorial, whale-squids are territorial. Bellows would have no reason to assume that 1) a whale-squid would show up, 2) that Ledo would assault it, or 3) that Ledo would not listen to her and stop when she told him to. You're assuming that she paid close attention to how Ledo reacted to the octopus, when it was clear that she mostly found it to be funny (didn't see it as a momentous reveal about his character). Why are you acting like she should have obviously known that he would react that way AGAIN with the whale-squid after he had been told that it (and the octopus) were harmless to him? When she made her comment about the whale-squid, did you instantly think: "Oh crap, if he sees one he'll go insane and try to murder it and won't listen to her if she tells him to stop!" She doesn't know what the Hideauze are or look like. She doesn't know Ledo's history with them. She doesn't know how he will react when one of them seems to him to be attacking him. For all she knows, he would see the whale-squid, freeze up like before, and she would say: "Oh, don't worry, those are harmless" and everything would be fine. The only reason it didn't happen that way was because Chamber confirmed it to be Hideauze, something she could have no knowledge or foresight of. So now she is stupid as well as "uneducated"? I didn't call her stupid, I was implying that she probably isn't looking at every single clue to every possible threat that Ledo could at some point pose to them. And even if we accept that she made a mistake by not telling him, how is that bad writing? Is it good writing to have characters who are perfect and never make mistakes? Who have perfect foresight and always take every possible problem into account, no matter how unlikely said problem is to occur? It's not bad writing, or unbelievable, to have a character who could theoretically have stopped something from happening but didn't think ahead far enough to do it. Keep in mind that WE the audience had that scene specifically pointed out to us. To Bellows, the character, that would have been one of many "fish out of water" moments of weirdness that Ledo has shown, one among hundreds. It is not unreasonable to say that a young woman who is drinking doesn't take any special notice of something that happens all the time and doesn't instantly think about the wider ramifications this particular action could possibly have on the whole of her society. But if you want to ignore what the show says one second with what they do the next, then by all means there are no contradictions. You are making things up, applying your omniscient (in the context of the story) knowledge to the characters, ignoring what the show says one second and what they do the next, and using all this to point out things that don't even qualify as contradictions EVEN IF THEY HAPPENED AS YOU SAID THEY HAPPEN... |
StopDropAndBowlMay 20, 2013 7:17 PM
| Let's go bowling. |
| Here's what I've noted. Ledo broke free randomly in the wormhole without a proper “swing in”. This is what caused him to land on Earth. Aside from the random coordinates it threw them in, it could also have sent them back in time as well for all we know. Which could be a possible reason Chamber is having such a hard time getting coordinates from the stars. It would also strengthen the reasoning as to why no one has seen or come across the materials Chamber is made of. Apparently the earth froze and melted. Humans fled to space. It’s possible some stayed, and became the inhabitants of Gargantia. Maybe some returned from space before Earth was forgotten altogether; maybe it became more like a black market territory, and hence the pirates. Honestly, I don’t get too hung up on finding an explanation to this. It simply is what it is. However, this somewhat breaks down the argument that they went BACK in time, and instead persuades me to think that they traveled to the future instead, where Gargantia is only behind due to isolation. Chamber mentions the glowing critters that make up the “sea galaxies” are nanomachines. They make electricity. The only logical thinking I have behind this is that humans made these things to help with an energy crisis. Coming from the fact that the Hideauze highly resemble octopi/squid, it leads me to think that the effect of the nanomachines changed sea creatures into what became known as the Hideauze.Since it is fairly clear that the Hideauze feed off of energy, and the squid on Earth glow, perhaps it all started with these nano machines messing with nature. As for arguments over Ledo's and Gargantia's reactions, this is what I draw from it: Whalesquid are a rarity near the surface, and pods are usually 10-30 at most. Gargantia is used to run-ins with them which can be shown by Bellow's discharging her mech's appendages to escape. However, they generally do not deal with them if they don't need to. The fact that Ledo killed one is new to all of them, and knowing general tales of the like that ship captains and sea-faring people would have, disturbing something unknown can only bring bad luck such as the Kraken. Think of it as bad mojo. When they see the giant pod coming for them in unseen numbers and much closer to the surface than normal, I could see how they would freak out as it would be a sign of that bad luck possibly coming true had they attacked the ships. Why were there so many and so close to the surface? Who knows. Perhaps they smelled blood in the water, and simply acted as a hive mind to go after whatever was attacking them by going to the dead squid, which would've been quite a ways back by the time the fleet encountered them. Maybe it's just a large pod that no-one's seen before, or they are headed after or away from something we don't know about yet.(I'd be up for something possibly driving them out of the nest, personally.) Ledo is just acting out of instinct, which is totally fine, especially since Chamber has pretty much confirmed the squid are Hideauze. However, even though he might be able to hover above the water and fire a bazillion lasers to kill all of them at once, that would be extremely cheesy and any other way would either wind up the same, or pretty much be suicide. Everyone played it cautious because it was all new to them, and who's to say if he killed them all, another even BIGGER pod or "Queen Squid" wouldn't come down the road, posing an even bigger threat to Gargantia? Next episode I see the captain dying. It was spelled out enough how frail he was with not being able to walk and the doctor's checkup that basically ended with "You should really step down and go easy in the fields for the rest of your life." Instead he remains as he is, and with a sudden burst of anger/adrenaline from the expedition group request, it's easy to see his heart failing. Extremely convenient? Yes. Just dropped in from nowhere? No. This leaves the question of who takes over from there. Perhaps we'll get a whole episode devoted to selecting a new captain, but I see the co-commander taking over. Though she doesn't want them to leave, hasn't she also wanted Ledo off the ship from day one? Sure, it'll cause turmoil since a major sub-captain is branching off, but I see her accepting the separation simply to rid herself of all the hassle that has been Ledo so far. Who will go with them? I'm not too sure. It's almost guaranteed that there will need to be a woman present for relationship/fanservice purposes. I can see Bellows going along because she "needs to keep an eye on them", or Amy/the three girls becoming stowaways. Maybe the whole fleet winds up splitting in half over it. What will they find? Perhaps some sort of energy source, maybe a missile/rocket silo Ledo will try to use to get back to space, maybe some secret that the Pirates are keeping. (I'm sort of waiting to see if Lobster girl shows up again.) I don't know, but for some reason I feel like next week's episode will be mostly about the separation and the end will be a cliffhanger of them just getting to the Whalesquid nest. .....Here's to waiting another week to find out! |
 |
| Personally, I think the whale-squids came to the surface as a kind of warning. Basically saying to the Gargantian's: "We can destroy you at any time if you kill our kind or mess with us. No more attacks." It seemed like a show of power to me. I've always thought of the Hideauze as being more sentient than not, even if that sentience doesn't necessarily take the form a human would instantly recognize. I wonder if it's the Hideauze who feed off the energy though, or if perhaps they are the ones who created the nano-machines in the first place? Chamber thinks it was earlier human civilizations, but he could be mistaken. It could be that the Alliance are the ones who feed off Hideauze energy sources and that is the cause of the war. And it seems kind of interesting that a Hideauze would just show up the first time Ledo goes down into the ocean. Maybe they sensed something about Chamber and sent a probe to check it out. And it seems the Hideauze are protecting/guarding some kind of secret: their territories are where the major remnants of the old human civilization are found. I wonder if Ledo and Pinion's expedition will ignite some kind of response in the "Overmind" of the Hideauze and bring the outer-space ones toward Earth. The Alliance would probably follow them, hunting them down, and Ledo would have inadvertently brought the war to Earth. The Alliance would naturally want the humans to join with them and wipe out the Hideauze on Earth, which will cause conflict with the Gargantians. Ledo will probably have to end up fighting against both sides of the war to protect his new people. I predict either a heroic sacrifice on his part or a quest for revenge after someone else's heroic sacrifice for the finale. |
| Let's go bowling. |
| finally something happens in this boring ass series, it wasnt that big or interesting of a development but finally there IS a development |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| If there's a like button, I'd thump up to every single post of StopDropAndBowl <3, love your arguments. The show has a solid plot and good writing as far as I can tell. People considered it flawed are just nitpicking. |
| I hate how everyone was hatin' on Ledo... they praise him when he does well, but they blame everything on him when he does something wrong and it's convenient for them to scold him. They don't remember that it's the way he was raised and it's been his natural mindset to kill the Hideauze, yet they freak out over him killing this squid. Why don't they try understanding his perspective?! |
pp813 said: I hate how everyone was hatin' on Ledo... they praise him when he does well, but they blame everything on him when he does something wrong and it's convenient for them to scold him. They don't remember that it's the way he was raised and it's been his natural mindset to kill the Hideauze, yet they freak out over him killing this squid. Why don't they try understanding his perspective?! Although I'm leaning towards Ledo's side, it's quite reasonable that they go "WTF ARE YOU DOING!?", but pulling a gun on him is pretty retarded. |
Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| That episode was a nice change of pace. Enjoyed it overall. XartaX said: but pulling a gun on him is pretty retarded. In any other scenario it is, but if Ledo had attacked the Hideaus the entire fleet would have been caught in the middle of it. |
Beryllus said: That episode was a nice change of pace. Enjoyed it overall. XartaX said: but pulling a gun on him is pretty retarded. In any other scenario it is, but if Ledo had attacked the Hideaus the entire fleet would have been caught in the middle of it. If he wanted to it's not like they could stop him even if there were thousands of them at that exact moment aiming their guns at him. And they know it. I'm not saying it's retarded because he's a friend. I'm saying it's retarded because it's a COMPLETELY futile action, which might additionally put their fleet at risk from HIM (arguably a bigger threat than the Hideauze currently below them if you push him too far). Pulling your gun at someone is not how you make them (stay) friendly towards you. All they are saying is "if you want to go, then kill/incapacitate us first". Seriously, that woman should lose her job. |
XartaXMay 20, 2013 10:28 PM
Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
XartaX said: pp813 said: I hate how everyone was hatin' on Ledo... they praise him when he does well, but they blame everything on him when he does something wrong and it's convenient for them to scold him. They don't remember that it's the way he was raised and it's been his natural mindset to kill the Hideauze, yet they freak out over him killing this squid. Why don't they try understanding his perspective?! Although I'm leaning towards Ledo's side, it's quite reasonable that they go "WTF ARE YOU DOING!?", but pulling a gun on him is pretty retarded. I agree. They don't know how his living in past before he came there. They only know he is soilder, been in war and somehow end up on their fleet. |
 |
AoiMizu said: XartaX said: pp813 said: I hate how everyone was hatin' on Ledo... they praise him when he does well, but they blame everything on him when he does something wrong and it's convenient for them to scold him. They don't remember that it's the way he was raised and it's been his natural mindset to kill the Hideauze, yet they freak out over him killing this squid. Why don't they try understanding his perspective?! Although I'm leaning towards Ledo's side, it's quite reasonable that they go "WTF ARE YOU DOING!?", but pulling a gun on him is pretty retarded. I agree. They don't know how his living in past before he came there. They only know he is soilder, been in war and somehow end up on their fleet. Yeah and he possesses enough firepower to singlehandedly wipe out their whole fleet without much of a trouble. Lets not forget that part, heh. When I think about it, that woman (can't remember her name at all) has done a terrible job all around. Why would you ask such a person to work for restoring the damages and make him go through such an amount of "bureaucracy"? Just seems like a fine way to make the guy who can basically sneeze and annihilate everything you hold dear pissed off. They're lucky he's an easily influenced kid (until you start asking him to not kill Hideauze, anyways). |
Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
XartaX said: Seriously, that woman should lose her job. Unfortunately, I'm 90% convinced she'll be captain of Gargantia by the end of next episode. |
|
Spiegelmeister said: XartaX said: Seriously, that woman should lose her job. Unfortunately, I'm 90% convinced she'll be captain of Gargantia by the end of next episode. Fortunately, he's getting the crap out of there by the end of the next episode, going by the title :p Anyways gonna sleep, will check by later. |
Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| waaaa.. that was very thrilling >< so many whalesquid! :X |
| On the subject of Ridget pulling the gun on Ledo, it was an necessary action. Their first priority isn't to keep him a friendly, it was to keep him from killing the Hideauze/squids at all costs. StopDropAndBowl said: 1. SnG>SnK Finally, someone who isn't overhyped by SnK. Sure, it's a great show, but Gargantia is overall more stable, and stronger characters, and better pacing, and manages to get its theme across easier. |
danna45 said: On the subject of Ridget pulling the gun on Ledo, it was an necessary action. Their first priority isn't to keep him a friendly, it was to keep him from killing the Hideauze/squids at all costs. StopDropAndBowl said: 1. SnG>SnK Finally, someone who isn't overhyped by SnK. Sure, it's a great show, but Gargantia is overall more stable, and stronger characters, and better pacing, and manages to get its theme across easier. Maybe if it hadn't wasted an episode and three quarters on making the sales and dicks of the OTAKU rise instead of developing the plot. But it did and therefore it is inferior for wasting precious story time. |
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