DrewTheDoofus said: NAMBLA exists too. It doesn't make it right. Child porn is a sin, whether it's drawn or real. I somehow missed this post before. Too bad for you that there is no such thing as drawn child porn then. |
| When did this topic resurface? If it isn't real, I don't think they should be punished. Monitored possibly, but not prosecuted, it may seem bad to do so, but letting the government arrest people for thought crimes is down right wrong, and scary. It should not be done. |
InfiniteRyvius said: When did this topic resurface? Hat trick InfiniteRyvius said: If it isn't real, I don't think they should be punished. Monitored possibly, but not prosecuted, it may seem bad to do so, but letting the government arrest people for thought crimes is down right wrong, and scary. It should not be done. Yeah I kinda agree with you there First of all isn't it technically art? who cares what the subject matter is While I'm not actually a fan of it but anime-lolis are not exactly something to get crazy about. And what? watching loli will eventually lead to a pedophile lifestyle? Haven't people already know these type of anime fan prefer 2D over 3D? XD |
Jaconator said: Haven't people already know these type of anime fan prefer 2D over 3D? XD As a lolicon I can support this statement. Such things are much less appealing in real life and in my experience almost any loli fan I've talked to has agreed with the term "3DPD". |
| I don't get why they'd persecute the guy. "OH NOES, WE MUST PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF THESE VIRTUAL CHILDRENZ" I can understand child pornography as being wrong when you look at it from the perspective of the child, and the possible shame/scarring they'd have to grow up with after being photographed in all these fucked up ways. But come on, it's fucking art. You might as well jail someone for watching a psychological thriller based on rape. It's not like someone is actually getting raped, but hell, it looks like it! JAIL THE GUY! ~~~~ 3nokta said: This is what I'm on about.Just TL:DR,What is there to be argue about ? Man convicted to 1 year in prison in Canada for having 'child pornl'' on laptop. This is the way it should be otherwise its just plain wrong. Sure it might be seen as fucked up to alot of us. I personally don't see how one could get so aroused by watching a little cartoon girl getting her brains fucked out (POMF =3) But really..? ~~~ And geez, I can't believe this thread has grown so much O_O Morality only goes so far. He isn't actually harming anybody. Just leave him be. You can start crying when he goes and rapes a child. |
SucroseOct 24, 2011 5:57 PM
Onibokusu said: Hah, this thread still exists. I remember getting multiple death-threat PMs for supporting this man being jailed. Anyways, taking out whether you see sexually-oriented lolita hentai as 'bad' or not (I personally think it's a pretty messed thing to fap to - if it's drawn, why does it have to be a child? Definitely underlying implications there, whether the lolicon knows it or not), the man still broke Canadian law. Canada's child pornography laws also cover drawn/CG depictions of children in a sexual act, he broke that law by bringing sexually-oriented lolita hentai into Canada. Tough. The point is these laws should not exist because lolicon is not child porn. |
| ^ I am truly speechless about that post o.o........ |
| Hint: Paragraphs are your friend. |
 |
Jaconator said: And what? watching loli will eventually lead to a pedophile lifestyle? Haven't people already know these type of anime fan prefer 2D over 3D? XD apparently its morally wrong and a sin to consider a drawing of a non-existant 2d girl attractive personally i disregard anyones argument the moment they drag bullshit religious terms into it but i guess thats semantics, all in all point being, 3d children are ugly little bratty assholes that i wouldnt touch with a 10 foot pole and yet somehow im a pedophile because i think 2d lolis are cute go figure |
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| i dont really understand the logic behind that either. its only art as long as theres no nudity? so all of Michelangelo's works aren't art? if its a drawn picture its art. whether its depicting a can of spilled tomato juice or a girl with the appearance of a 10 year old eating a bowl of man chowder. and besides, since its drawn, the artist responsible for the character's creation can say theyre whatever age he wants them to be, regardless of their appearance. that's the major reason why this whole argument is pants on head retarded. |
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| The fuck you talkin' about man? Art is in the eye of the beholder, just because you don't think it's art doesn't mean someone else can't. |
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ironicatheist said: Cucumbers said: see your the reason that claim maker is retarded, because you explained and proved how not everyone who likes loli thinks it's hot lol but if your looking at something naked and saying it's cute, i doubt that, and if you are, then that definitely needs help... no I'm not saying all lolicon is nude but for the ones that are, it definitely isn't art, which either means it is useless or used for "other things"...Jaconator said: And what? watching loli will eventually lead to a pedophile lifestyle? Haven't people already know these type of anime fan prefer 2D over 3D? XD apparently its morally wrong and a sin to consider a drawing of a non-existant 2d girl attractive personally i disregard anyones argument the moment they drag bullshit religious terms into it but i guess thats semantics, all in all point being, 3d children are ugly little bratty assholes that i wouldnt touch with a 10 foot pole and yet somehow im a pedophile because i think 2d lolis are cute go figure You obviously don't know what art is. |
| ironicatheist, I deleted about half your posts. To be more specific: the ones that follow up your own replies. If you continue to give me work by deliberately disregarding the rules, I'll suspend your account for a week. Same goes for JigokuNoMegami. One word replies aren't welcome. Both of you should re-read this: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=311035 Drunk_Samurai said: ironicatheist said: Cucumbers said: see your the reason that claim maker is retarded, because you explained and proved how not everyone who likes loli thinks it's hot lol but if your looking at something naked and saying it's cute, i doubt that, and if you are, then that definitely needs help... no I'm not saying all lolicon is nude but for the ones that are, it definitely isn't art, which either means it is useless or used for "other things"...Jaconator said: And what? watching loli will eventually lead to a pedophile lifestyle? Haven't people already know these type of anime fan prefer 2D over 3D? XD apparently its morally wrong and a sin to consider a drawing of a non-existant 2d girl attractive personally i disregard anyones argument the moment they drag bullshit religious terms into it but i guess thats semantics, all in all point being, 3d children are ugly little bratty assholes that i wouldnt touch with a 10 foot pole and yet somehow im a pedophile because i think 2d lolis are cute go figure You obviously don't know what art is. To support your argument: "Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect. It encompasses a diverse range of human activities, creations, and modes of expression, including music, literature, film, photography, sculpture, and paintings." That covers a lot. Including lolicon. |
| Just three things I'm gonna comment on in this resurfaced thread... 1) Law and morality aren't entirely separate. Anyone who says otherwise really needs to look closer at the laws around them. 2) Technically speaking, tickling can be a punishable offence. 3) I'm pretty sure most people know, let alone law students (!), that there doesn't need to be 100% proof in order for the court to find someone guilty. Burden of proof etc etc. |
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| 1 year only for having lolicon on his computer wat a load of crap. |
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| This is semi amusing to me for two reasons, 1) I was born in Canada and I intend to move back in about 5 years. 2) I'm a pretty big fan of the series the offending content depicted (Nanoha). While I do not approve of such content like H Doujins and the like, I don't think this guy deserved to get jail time, atleast not as much. Though one could argue that having loli is like having real CP - both are content to fuel your imagination. |
| LOL they need to calm the fk down! 1 year just for that? Geez... |
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| The thing I still find Bad is that they checked his laptop. I don't like that to be honest, it seems like a breach of privacy to me. |
| Gotta remember to do the following: |
| Dirty pedo images. |
Chavez said: To support your argument: "Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect. It encompasses a diverse range of human activities, creations, and modes of expression, including music, literature, film, photography, sculpture, and paintings." That covers a lot. Including lolicon. The argument instead should have been about what art is worth. Like this painting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_5_%28painting%29 I consider it art but find it absolutely ridiculous somebody paid that much money for a bunch of lines thrown all over a canvas. Jack_Rav said: Just three things I'm gonna comment on in this resurfaced thread... 1) Law and morality aren't entirely separate. Anyone who says otherwise really needs to look closer at the laws around them. 2) Technically speaking, tickling can be a punishable offence. 3) I'm pretty sure most people know, let alone law students (!), that there doesn't need to be 100% proof in order for the court to find someone guilty. Burden of proof etc etc. Law and morality should be separate for the most part. Also there should be 100% proof because you get people like Troy Davis thrown in jail and executed because he was black. TheScarletSword said: This is semi amusing to me for two reasons, 1) I was born in Canada and I intend to move back in about 5 years. 2) I'm a pretty big fan of the series the offending content depicted (Nanoha). While I do not approve of such content like H Doujins and the like, I don't think this guy deserved to get jail time, atleast not as much. Though one could argue that having loli is like having real CP - both are content to fuel your imagination. Just like how violent video games make people go out and murder. InfiniteRyvius said: The thing I still find Bad is that they checked his laptop. I don't like that to be honest, it seems like a breach of privacy to me. Not even the TSA is that asinine. Alpha-kudasu said: Dirty pedo images. Trollface.jpg. |
Drunk_SamuraiOct 25, 2011 10:29 AM
Onibokusu said: Hah, this thread still exists. I remember getting multiple death-threat PMs for supporting this man being jailed. Anyways, taking out whether you see sexually-oriented lolita hentai as 'bad' or not (I personally think it's a pretty messed thing to fap to - if it's drawn, why does it have to be a child? Definitely underlying implications there, whether the lolicon knows it or not), the man still broke Canadian law. Canada's child pornography laws also cover drawn/CG depictions of children in a sexual act, he broke that law by bringing sexually-oriented lolita hentai into Canada. Tough. Nobody will agree with you because everybody else on MAL probably has 500 GB of loli porn on their computers and is afraid of being arrested. |
| @ironicatheist Just stop posting. You clearly aren't even thinking, you must just be smacking your hands on your keyboard. You can't effectively argue something of which you have no idea what the hell you are even talking about. 1) "murder should be legal? same with stealing? same with rape? same with child molestation? same with date rape? " Those hard things that harm people. While stealing is not harm in the bodily sense, it still is a physical type of harm: ie: you stole their money, something tangible and measurable. How can you not wrap your head around this concept? Morals and laws may coincide, but there are many many many many many more morals than there are laws. Many you would disagree with. 2) "laws are rules, and rules are about fairness" So the head tax imposed on the Chinese to prevent them from entering Canada during its earlier years was fair? How about homosexuals not being able to be married in most of the states (last I checked)? Laws are about reducing harm to society and people. 3) Charles manson. Manson had intent to harm others. Despite Manson not doing any killing himself, it is a crime by association and inciting crimes. Furthermore, this is why we have courts and juries, so that we can form case laws if there are not current laws to deal with the problem. But in the end, Manson actually got people killed. This is the difference. If Manson just sat around with his cult talking about killing people than he wouldn't have been charged. @Onibokusu No one is arguing that he didn't break a law. However, we are arguing that the law itself is founded on misguided principles. In the 1800's homosexuality was dealt with the death penalty in many countries (still some countries today), in the early 1900s it was no longer the death penalty, but rather imprisonment (in a lot of cases indefinitely) for incurable homosexuality. Those were the laws. They changed when people evidence was presented and people discussed the laws. The laws were eventually overturned in many places. This is progression. Now one final point to clarify: The above story was ONLY to describe how laws change. @DrewTheDoofus Feel free to agree with Onibokusu. If you provide an reasonable coherent arguement, I'll gladly discuss it. If you feel like ad hominem'ing it up, then troll on lol. |
AlexSadist-sama said: I don't think that should cause someone to go to jail because lolicon is fiction. +1. other people have real girls in sex scenes and they do anything. |
DrewTheDoofus said: Nobody will agree with you because everybody else on MAL probably has 500 GB of loli porn on their computers and is afraid of being arrested. How dare you! I have only 200GB of loli porn on my laptop, the rest is actual child pornography, so stop generalizing! |
| @ironicatheist 1) Teddy Bear: It's trivial harm, but harm none the less. I had to work to pay for that bear, and if you were to take it, it is equivalent to taking the money value of that bear. 2) "the forfathers intents for the countries civilization was to be fair" which is why they allowed slavery? I could argue that slavery was beneficial for the inclusive society which is why said society would have had laws allowing it. 3)Punishment systems exist (or should) to reduce harm. You place a person in prison for several reasons: i) To get him off the streets (to prevent him from harming others) ii) To rehabilitate the person (attempt to prevent future harm) iii) to act as a deterrence (for others who might cause people harm) 4) For god sakes don't confuse justice and law. Hence the saying "court of law, not justice". 5) edit: Also i must point out that the laws prohibiting gay marriage are not only UNFAIR, but those laws are not preventing any harm, how does gay marriage cause harm?" Many western countries have Christian heritages. It wouldn't be odd to say that early America/Canada/Britain were Christian societies. If homosexuality stands in contradiction to the Bible, than homosexuality could be deemed to be harming society. However, as our countries and societies become more secular, and realize the ridiculas baseless claims made in the Bible for what they are, than we can get rid of these laws (as we can now see the real harm that is happening). The penalty in Canada for first degree murder is (if I'm not mistaken) 20-25 years (life sentence). Many people, really anyone, would say that this is not fair. The life expectancy is at least 80, so why 25 years? The reason is simple: If a criminal kills someone in Canada, if they kill another person then they will now get 50 years. Kill yet again and its now 75. This acts as discouragement from going on a killing spree. If the penalty for killing a person was a life sentence/death penalty, than the criminal would kill however many people it takes to get away with the crime, as his penalty would not get any worse no matter what measures he takes. In America (or atleast some states) they still have the death penalty. I'm no expert on American law, but I assume in many states its the old fashioned "you kill a person you get the death penalty" mentality. Need I point out the differences in crime rates between Canada and America? So in short: Laws should exist to reduce harm done to society/people. |
ironicatheist said: "While stealing is not harm in the bodily sense, it still is a physical type of harm: ie: you stole their money, something tangible and measurable." how is that HARM? i mean if it DIDN'T cause them to starve to death, or not be able to eat for a day, or it didn't cause them to not pay a bill, then how are they being HARMED? i think your trying to say they got there rights violated, which doesn't mean harm necessarily... i could steal your teddy bear, how is that HARM? Why are you still going on about stealing? You keep talking about digital means and switching to physical means. I already told you that copyright infringement is not stealing. |
| onibukso said -Drawing without reference is extremely difficult, and you have no way of knowing if you've made mistakes. What you said earlier, bolded, is still drawing with reference. However, I doubt you'll find the body of a human child in a biology book. Talk to a serious art student about drawing from memory, you'll find out it's actually a pretty hard thing to do. It's not just 'wiz bang bing, I've made a loli'. FYI, you can find a lot of example of drawing from memory on a site like Devientart. They're the ones with unrealistic body proportions (no, I'm not talking about large breasts) and strange perspectives. Dude i dont watch lolicon or read it, the artist in me told me to reply but that Is absolute garbage i draw almost everything from out of my head apart from the odd portraits....... are you an artist? there are many types of artists out there many use references, but you will find there are kraploads of people who draw from their imagination to create what they want. |
| lol lots of people from here would be arrested if caught then |
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| I suppose I can see how liking lolicon material like that can lead to stuff like crimes associated with pedophilia or child pornography, but that can be said for any sort of animation, books, or even any entertainment. If that's the cause for his arrest, then that's just paranoia. It's not really fair or even closely justified. |
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