Eureka Seven AO Episode (23 &) 24 Discussion

aiNkyy said:
Wait, it's over ? This is the last episode?

I want to know what happened after the 2 years...maybe an OVA ?

Dangerr said:

It is technically a sequel; the producers have stated this.

To specify, it's a sequel only insofar as Renton and Eureka's plotline goes, which is their legacy, being Ao. From a character perspective, that's the only factor, honestly, though the actions of the Scub Coral post-Second Summer of Love kind of makes it a direct sequel on a much larger scale in big ways.

Dangerr said:

There's going to be another OVA. No one know's what it's about yet, however.

Vuyo said:
I laughed really hard at the AO lifting with no trapar.

So were the secrets just a manifestation of the scub coral made to destroy other scub coral coming into different dimmensions as a means to prevent the limit of questions?
because it seemed kind of like that to me when Renton was explaining it, but I don't know.

Sad waiting for a series you're excited about, then you lose interest. Then it's coming out and you want to get excited, but it's only alright.
I didn't think E7 would end this way, I thought I'd always want more.
Good thing my life brings wonderful things as well everyday.
7/10

Samhiuy said:
You know, considering that Ao was drifting between different worlds for a considerable amount of time. It is possible that Ao is 16 right now right?

This means....Ao and Fleur will be the same age!! I mean, it's a possibility and that would more likely mean Ao X Fleur.

Give me a Second Season for this damn it! Bones, you asshole do it right now! I mean, they can still do a Second Season where it'll focus more on Ao's character relation with others. Give him some romance, let Fleur express her feelings!!l

... but I feel that if it had more episodes, say 50 like the original, it could have been great! The pacing is whats dragging it down, it needed more episodes. However, I have liked it, and I am incredibly excited for these last two episodes.

303devilfish said:
you know, despite the fact that the eureka and renton we all know would never let their child sacrifice his life for their sake.... probably the most notable annoyance with the ending for me. renton acted out of character, wanting to destroy the scubs after he went through so much to protect them in the original, all to protect Ao and his world. yet he so easily lets Ao give up his reality for them.

303devilfish said:
it honestly needed more of a connection to the original. as i write this, i feel as though E7:AO is almost like it's own series, interdependent of eureka seven.

BHancock said:
My answer is NO, IT DOESN'T SUCK. Just because it wasn't understandable doesn't mean it sucks. BONES just put up a number of coat hangers called plot points, hung some coats on them called characters, and removed most of them without even letting them be completely dry through the hands called the Quartz Gun, yet many of you care about the coats that haven't dried yet. This is quite-on-of-a-kind, E7 AO, that it manages to weave plot points together so beautifully only to remove most of them with a reset button and still manage to complete the main character's plot.

AnimeGio96 said:
What confuses me is how bones manages to ruin Eureka 7 with the sequel. Since they are the original creators of Eureka 7, shouldnt they have known what to do to make it actually good.

BHancock said:
To be honest I didn't understand anything until now, really. Also, I realize that the reason for all this negative reaction is because you:

a.) Didn't get the ending you wanted
b.) Didn't get the ending you predicted
c.) Didn't get an easy-to-understand ending

And some of you have the gall to mock Shounen anime. -_-

Here's the thing. If you concentrate at Ao and only at him as was what BONES intended then maybe you'd appreciate this little standalone sequel even more.

Stop trying to tie everything in. Most of the things are supposed to be inconclusive because they were meant to be inconclusive and/or be left to die. The only thing you have to know is that in the last 2 episodes Ao didn't know who the real enemy was ... when in fact there were none. He just got pinned between the forces known as the Scab Coral, the Secrets, the not-archetype Truth, the Quartz Gun (aka the Reset Button), the various politicians and military officials involved, and different ideologies.

It doesn't matter where Truth came from anymore because Quartz Gun. It doesn't matter if Naru or Fleur got hooked up with Ao because Quartz Gun. It doesn't matter what happened to the real Elena Peoples because Quartz Gun. Want to know why Ao sacrificed himself and went in limbo for 20 plus years? He didn't want to live in his chaotic dimension anymore. You had to make a choice, whether to destroy the Scab (Naru will die) or not (Everyone will die). It was a lose-lose situation, and don't tell me you'd choose the second (humans are stupid like that for love - figuratively speaking of course, since Ao's a Coralian).

TLDR, yes he ran.

It's quite an amazing plot device, that Quartz Gun.

Anyway, you should just all think that Ao's happy where he is a world without (or only minimal, I guess?) Trapar and his parents are happy too, that in his dimension he can start a whole horde of mixed Coralian/Human kids with superpowers just like Goku and Vegeta did, except Ao is Gohan.

EDIT: I just realized, that BONES went the hard way instead of making Ao some fanservice where we could see Renton and Eureka living together with Linck, Maeter, and whatsisname.

Also, I hear some of you asking "What kind of story is it then, where we don't have to care for the characters? Isn't that a sucky story?"

My answer is NO, IT DOESN'T SUCK. Just because it wasn't understandable doesn't mean it sucks. BONES just put up a number of coat hangers called plot points, hung some coats on them called characters, and removed most of them without even letting them be completely dry through the hands called the Quartz Gun, yet many of you care about the coats that haven't dried yet. This is quite-on-of-a-kind, E7 AO, that it manages to weave plot points together so beautifully only to remove most of them with a reset button and still manage to complete the main character's plot.

AnimeGio96 said:
.... if they tried they could have had something good like the Naruto Shippuden series....

Dangerr said:

"Good" is subjective; I don't mind that you hated it, but why don't you try substantiating your complaints rather than making lofty, hollow, and sweeping statements.

Dangerr said:

I'm sorry, but this is killing me; I never try to degrade one's arguments based on their tastes, but seriously?

As for "no one should have to think so hard", then what do you think of shows like Serial Experiments Lain, Gankustsuou, Mushi-Shi, Texhnolyze, and etcetera? Ao doesn't begin to approach their levels in storytelling, but like them, it at least presents the audience high-concepts to ponder over. Are you saying that anime as a medium should be nothing but crowd-pleasing, mindless entertainment?

BHancock said:


What if you realized that all you've stood for is evil? He didn't act out of character, the Scab was no longer the most important thing to him; HIS FAMILY WAS. Of course he'd put more priority on his family.

About Ao's decision, it's because he was the one holding the Quartz Gun. Renton realized right away that Ao's decision to put himself in limbo instead of Eureka was better instead of making Eureka the fall girl for 20 plus years. Ao didn't want to be in his hard-to-understand dimension too anyway. They all make sense and in character. You were the one who wanted the power of love and friendship to solve everything. THAT makes lesser sense.



Then write a fanfic about Renton and Eureka's family life, Talho and Holland's chaotic marriage, the Gekko's resurgence, etc.

daniysixzero said:
in the end how does ao trapar surf when there isnt even any trapra in the first place bcouse he eradicates it after saving his mom.

lkx said:
Pay close attention, when Ao jumped out of the Quartz form Nirvash Neo, there were trapars in the atmosphere, so Ao definitely did not fall to his death like many of you have wished.

Acxelion said:
And now I learn, basically Ao never existed,

Dangerr said:
Actually, comprehension, or how "understandable" it is, is one of the most important aspects of effective writing; you're trying to say that it's being purposefully ambiguous, though the ending answered a lot of ambiguities left hanging in the series. That is not to say, however, that there aren't a lot of remaining plot threads left hanging; each of which that I could point out, if someone really wants me to. The bottom line is, however, is that in order for it to be effective writing, it MUST be comprehensible to the audience, and where any plot elements are left ambiguous, there must be room for one to formulate their own structured conclusions, rather than a complete failure to comprehend (bad writing).

There are some minor holes here and there, though I think the story was told effectively, overall. The biggest problem this series faced was characterization, pacing, and a propensity to focus too much on details that are ultimately irrelevant to the story.

Not that I don't agree with you in some things, but the plot should be comprehensible, and avoid unnecessary convolution, which AO didn't fully succeed in.

AnimeGio96 said:
something good like the Naruto Shippuden series

AnimeGio96 said:
Again, i was most likely unclear here. No I'm not saying that anime has to be mindless like most forms of mainstream entertainment, but it doesn't need to have the kind of thought Ao establishes. Ao is convoluted is so many ways, and it's unnecessary to have to decipher through all this while remaining entertained, this is why most reactions to this series is "Eh, it was alright" or "It could have been better". Elements like time travel in shows/anime have been known to be confusing (not always) and Ao applies it in one of the worst cases I've seen. The point i was trying to confirm was it shouldn't be necessary for us to decipher the meaning behind every point Ao makes, while trying to make it both comprehensible and in relation to its origins. Things like Scubs are now the enemies but they weren't in the original series are too trivial to mull over the whole time, and complicating an established fact in one series and then contradicting it in its sequel WHILE still trying to validate the former is just too much to ponder over and has little to no point. Thanks for your input nonetheless, and i know gramatically this post probably lacks so sorry in advance

BHancock said:


Have you ever watched a single BONES series besides the E7 one? If you did, then you should know they're notorious for storylines like this. If not, well, it's your loss.

Didn't you understand what I said? BONES made a fool out of us. They made us think that we should care about minor characters when they were totally irrelevant to the story because of the Quartz Gun. You know why I find your reactions funny? It's because BONES made you care about them, Naru, Georg, Ivica, Rebecha, etc. They made you feel for them until such time they pulled the rug on us, revealing that they weren't that involved in the first place. I don't know whether to call this masterful writing or failed trolling, but it's on par with what a crazy genius would think up. BONES successfully convinced us that there was more to the other characters, but in the end weren't any good. OMG, Elena killed the real Elena? Whoop, Quartz Gun, joke's on youuu! They did that, TO OUR FACES. And now that I get it, I think it's funny.

Dangerr said:
DtB2, AO, and Xam'd are the only titles I can really think of, off the top of my head, that have caused this sort of polarizing controversy, though I haven't seen Xam'd. Expectations, however, based upon the studio's other series with different producers should have no bearing on one's vierwership with AO; not from a legitimate storytelling perspective.

Dangerr said:
As for the series as a whole, even I have to admit, that characterization was a weaker point to AO; in order for this "twist" to have an effect on the audience, they must have some capacity to make the audience empathize, or be invested in them, which AO did a fairly mediocre job of doing, overall. Even so, despite the fact that Ao erased their memories and experiences with him, by changing reality, it doesn't make the story itself irrelevant; Ao still experienced his journey, and still had to face his parents' consequences -- no quartz cannon blast had changed that, which was Ao's sum experience. Of course, if the audience manages to empathize enough, it hurts; it evokes a sentimental reaction for what Ao has gone through, and that those he loved and cared for no longer remember him; that's the idea, anyways - too bad the level of writing couldn't keep up with the concept, dulling its execution (not that I didn't enjoy it, however; it's just not as effective as it should have been).

Dangerr said:
All I'm saying is that it's not concepts alone that makes a series brilliant; AO had a great story and ideas, at its heart. Its execution, however, cheapens these factors to an extent, and while I enjoyed the series, and greatly enjoyed discussing it, it's certainly a flawed experience. Finally, however, I must disagree that the concept you're mentioning is in of itself "genius"; it's been done countless times before in sci-fi, and even a couple other recent anime (Steins;Gate, Madoka) have used this plot-device to varying extents. Without proper writing and characterization, many people will just call it cheap. I understand what you're trying to say, but to reiterate, the concept itself is no longer brilliant.

GigaSPX said:
Okay, I don't want to be in the middle of this argument, and I have no reason to enter it by asking a bunch of questions I have that are unanswered by the series, so I'll ask just this one....

When Ao stopped at his last destination, the date was June 15, 2027. What particularly happened in this day in the series? Is it a day in the past, the present he just returned to, or is it a new day?

RentonThurston16 said:
Am i the only one that think bones left themselves some wiggle room? if you not sure than look at the last 8 min and tell me what you think.

BHancock said:
To be honest I didn't understand anything until now, really. Also, I realize that the reason for all this negative reaction is because you:

a.) Didn't get the ending you wanted
b.) Didn't get the ending you predicted
c.) Didn't get an easy-to-understand ending.....

OBVIOUS EDIT FOR LENGTH

...... This is quite-on-of-a-kind, E7 AO, that it manages to weave plot points together so beautifully only to remove most of them with a reset button and still manage to complete the main character's plot.

GigaSPX said:

Hard to say, they did the same with Darker Than Black 2. Such a huge space for a sequel, but they turned it down.

Too many unresolved mysteries...but there's just space for a spinoff somehow.

TeamSatomi55 said:
the show was no higher than a 5/10, possibly lower. Stop trying to find some hidden meaning that makes the show good or over analyzing something that has no depth. The fact that you're trying so hard to defend that it wasn't a bad show is proof enough. The best thing about the show was the hype is caused, watching each episode hoping that the next one would be good :(

Linkark07 said:
Eureka Seven: Psalms of the Planets never had a sequel. That seems right.

TheMaverickk said:
"If you concentrate at Ao and only at him as was what BONES intended" This line bothers me a lot. That logic has so many problems with it in regards to a story.

See if BONES intended for the viewer to only care about Ao, and Ao alone.... they wouldn't have bothered creating so many characters. Yet BONES did in fact create many different character groups, and even takes the time to show them extensively. Even following their stories and tales. For example you have Gazelle and his group who you are introduced early on, and become integrated into team Pied Piper. They have interactions with various characters, and their own little story arcs, like searching for who Elena Peoples is, or about them digging out the truth of Generation Blue and what they are hiding.

If E7 Ao is meant to be focused solely on Ao, then BONES already made a mistake in even following other characters in a half-assed fashion. In the end people follow what these side characters are doing, and for what? No reason. They don't contribute to the overall story in any significant way.

In many ways so many supporting characters play out this way, from Elena, and Fluer who are even involved with Ao extensively. I mean why even put Elena in the spotlight and talk about her issues as someone who has time traveled because of Eureka's involvement if the focus is on Ao... and at the end of the day why are we supposed to care about her. In the end though it doesn't matter because even she is shelved and pushed to the side towards the end so that Ao can get back to his relationship with Naru.

Which even that is kind of thrown around right at the end. Again why bother showing these characters, showing their side of a story, and then completely disregard it or dismiss it. That's just bad story telling.

You can argue that it's not about them, and it's about Ao, but at the end of the day if the story is solely about Ao then BONES should have focused only on him, and only on his feelings, and supporting cast should have reflected that. Most of which didn't in any shape or form.

There is nothing amazing about the Quartz Gun... it's a Deus ex machina. It's a scape goat to rectify problems with the narrative. That which there was a lot of. Between the story focusing on details that don't matter to the overall story, to covering up some very obvious plot holes in regards to why certain things exist in the first place (two Nirvashes as an example... which even Renton asserts.... there really should only be one).

A show can be smart, have time travel and have a co-hesive story without being convoluted. A lot of deeper anime's that involve time travel have done so.

The time travel/multiple universes aspect (the fact that it's never clearly explained whether it's time travel or multiple universes is never clarified is an issue) is loose at best. Things like why is it that Ao's memory isn't affected by the use of the gun for example.... or why is it that they even hint at the fact that Maggie regains some insight to a previous alternate life... which doesn't make sense in any way shape or form.

It's important for a TV series or any story for that matter to have a sort of internal logic. Rules and guidelines to that created universe. When a story doesn't you end up with issues like these.

Also Eureka and Renton are absolutely fan service. They were used specifically to drum up hype on a few occasions. Just look at episode previews.... the glimpses of Eureka are there to keep fans of the series watching and hoping.

The fact that they reveal Renton in the last 30 seconds of episode 22, right before they tell people they have to wait 2 months to see the end.... that was fan service to build up hype for the finale.

In many cases them having Renton in the last two episodes is almost like a distraction device. I mean hey I was excited and happy to see him, he looked cool, he had the original Nirvash and it's bad ass, and he's out to save Eureka again essentially (although again they waffled on that and Renton says he's basically going to erase the original Scub and essentially Eureka with it... which goes against the statement at the end of episode 22 about "now I can get her back from that sky".... erasing scubs and her is not getting her back). In either case I was swept up in the moment, and all the emotions that flood back from memories of the original E7.

Yet as events played out there was this kind of head smacking thing going on ... where I love what I'm seeing on the screen, but at the same time my mind is thinking... none of this is adding up. It makes sense, and I don't think it's that hard to understand what happened... it's simply "why did this happen?" or "why did BONES creatively feel this was the best way to tell a story within the Eureka Seven universe?".

I mean personally I can live with the ending... I can be content that Ao will have a happier life living in the world he is familiar with, and that at the end of the day Eureka and Renton are probably just happy knowing he will survive in the past... where as if he returns with them to their proper time, the Trapar may in fact kill him.

The nagging problem is still why BONES chose to make some of these creative choices which really don't fit with the Eureka Seven universe... to a certain degree Ao even conflicts with the events of the original.

It's an entertaining story, it does rectify itself, but it didn't need to be under the Eureka Seven brand.

peacefulfiasco said:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdvmamSGbx1qirqi6.jpg

My friend posted this and I don't know where he found it or if he made it but what if Ao was born in the future universe.