Rokka: Braves of the Six Flowers (light novel)
DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
black1blade said: CookingPriest said: That one of seven is lying? Sure. That the set up of parameters outside the seven people can be a lie? Not really. At this point - "hey who said that the others are not fake - maybe they ALL are fake" as well as "hey who said that the six braves are working to save the world and seventh to stop them is right - maybe its the other way around!" are just as feasible because the rules are broken without the establishment of which rules can be lies. 2+2= 4 Right? Wrong! The + is actually a cross so its two numbers with a cross in between them. No wait thats a lie, its actually a drawing of a fence. If you had no understanding of mathematics then you might well think that there is a cross between the numbers (if you know what numbers are..). The understanding of mathematics is a trail of logical thought to be applied upon the visual of 2+2. It only works and is correct if the statement "Math is applicable here" is correct. If the answer is "it is a fence", then throwing away that logical train of thought that it is mathematical equation is needed. And in this case "this might not be math" was never hinted. Frrrosty said: CookingPriest said: Shooting a sun laser beam at the castle =/= Heating up an are multiple kilometers long = creating fog in an are multiple kilometers long. Again, I keep relying on quotations/examples to support my reasoning (unlike some): Episode 9: Fremy: "Given her (saint of Fog's) powers, it would take her to cover the forest in 15 minutes, but the forest was covered instantly" Riura's power was in power since at least episode 3 (i.e. a lot more than 15 minutes): Adlet: "It's gotten a bit hot" Case and point. This deduces Riura could cause the entire peninsula to decrease in temperature to create fog since she had a lot of time to generate her power. Plus, Riura was the most experienced/powerful saint alive whilst the saint of fog is still inexperienced (see episode 6). Again that is the info thrown at us right before the actual reveal happens. We could not have possibly known those bits of lore before hand thus we could not have come to the same conclusion as the reveal. thanks for proving my point. IF Fremy and ADlet had that discussion during the set up phase of the mystery, then it would be proper but the narrative withheld those clues amongst many others thus witholding viewers ability to solve the mystery thus defeating the purpose of it being a mystery. |
 |
CookingPriest said: It requires a twilight zone level of out-of-nowhere information reveal - as a similar example "you are in a mansion and you see a corpse floating in mid air. How is it possible? Because the mansion is actually a room in a space station so it has no gravity!" - its the same level of logic leap that is impossible without outside information. I gotta say, while I don't agree with your points, your analogies are perfect in conveying what they intend to... |
| 5 main aspects I base my ratings on: 1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it? 2. Is it better than Breaking Bad? 3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it? 4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL? 5. Is it actually good? Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant... |
CookingPriest said: Frrrosty said: I can confidently say that this was very well done. Firstly there have been two axioms the anime has presented us with, whether one should be suspicious or not. The rules at this point are laid out pretty well: Verbal information is to be considered trustworthy only if corroborated by visual evidence or the testimony of at least two people. Examples: - Claim: The barrier is impassable. Evidence: We see Adlet run with string (while Hans drags a stick) in a straight line, and they both end up back at their respective starting points. Verdict: Trustworthy. - Claim: Hans let slip that Nach was a princess before he could have possibly known that. Evidence: Only one character claims it, and the audience never heard it. Verdict: Not trustworthy. Basically one needs to go back and re-evaluate every single statement in this fashion. I am sorry but that's not a clue. There's no way to follow that train of thought without already knowing it - you would not look at those cases that way unless you knew you had to look that way. The establishment of rules is missing. The only thing that was established was that any of seven can be lying. Nothing was said about outside factors. Let me tell you that: A. These are rules set at the start of the mystery not clues. B. I did not come up with this interpretation (yes, plagiarism), go look on the "Nihon Review Forum". I just copy and pasted a post from a guy named HuuskerDu in the Rokka no Yuusha thread. He's an anime-only just like you and formulated this since episode 8. |
CookingPriest said: black1blade said: I don't see why you wouldn't suspect that anyone was telling the truth especially with anything related to the barrier because all the characters present seem to know pretty much nothing about it. Because the show presented us with the info about the barrier without presenting us the possibility of any info being fake? It requires a twilight zone level of out-of-nowhere information reveal - as a similar example "you are in a mansion and you see a corpse floating in mid air. How is it possible? Because the mansion is actually a room in a space station so it has no gravity!" - its the same level of logic leap that is impossible without outside information. You must admit it was pretty suspicious how only those guys survived. I thought it was anyway at the time :/ It's pretty obvious that anything we know about the barrier is fake when the source of most of our knowledge in the show (maura), doesn't actually properly know anything about said barrier apart from what she has been told by that suspicious guy who somehow survived. Also I can't remember it was touched on in the anime or not, but the guard dudes said they would activate the barrier once all the rokka where assembled. Adlet or someone actually searched for those guys to see if they had arrived at the temple or already had been killed but there was no evidence that they had been there. Adlet comes up with a few hypothesis as to why and I'm pretty sure one of them is that they didn't even bother setting out... Again I did recently read all the section of the LN where all the clues where given out... |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
CookingPriest said: This too. Yet another example of the narrative changing the rules on a whim for its own benefit and against the viewer. Wasn't this your point? Because my post certainly disprove this one. |
| Anyway this thread has kept me up far too long (midnight where I am at!) so I'm gonna finish the last 2/5ths of the LN and go to bed :p |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
mira-nyan said: skudoops said: I wasn't wrong at all, I'm 100% certain the person I suspected from the get beginning is the 7th but ignoring that for a minute your first sentence didn't make sense to me. Every single defense he made was shut down due mechanics we didn't know about, why are you so easily brushing that aside? Look at what you are saying here, these are the two MAJOR reasons that people suspected adlet in the first place and why it was so difficult for the viewer to formulate a solution of their own in the beginning. Another thing is the saint of fog can't produce a fog in that area, yet the saint of the sun can heat up that entire area + more? This came back to my point about us not knowing about the abilities of the saints.. why can't the fog saint create a barrier that big yet the sun saint can heat up an area that big? This is actually mentioned in the show like I stated before. I am still enjoying the show, but I really can't defend the way it handled its mystery, there was too much emphasis on knowledge the viewer did not have. It's funny cuz she heated it over a month. The Saint of Fog can only create fog with a barrier. Which is impossible coz only 1 barrier at a time. Without the barrier, it's impossible for her to create a fog at once in such a huge forest. The Saint of the sun god, however, did this over a month and she doesn't need a barrier to work. Considering this is heat, and not mist, [insertthingsaboutthingshere] Yeah, basically. Riura didn't even create a barrier, she just created Fog over an entire region using natural phenomena. The Saint of Fog still can't do that without a catalyst and years of preparation. |
Iron_MawSep 12, 2015 4:23 PM
black1blade said: CookingPriest said: Because the show presented us with the info about the barrier without presenting us the possibility of any info being fake? It requires a twilight zone level of out-of-nowhere information reveal - as a similar example "you are in a mansion and you see a corpse floating in mid air. How is it possible? Because the mansion is actually a room in a space station so it has no gravity!" - its the same level of logic leap that is impossible without outside information. You must admit it was pretty suspicious how only those guys survived. I thought it was anyway at the time :/ It's pretty obvious that anything we know about the barrier is fake when the source of most of our knowledge in the show (maura), doesn't actually properly know anything about said barrier apart from what she has been told by that suspicious guy who somehow survived. Also I can't remember it was touched on in the anime or not, but the guard dudes said they would activate the barrier once all the rokka where assembled. Adlet or someone actually searched for those guys to see if they had arrived at the temple or already had been killed but there was no evidence that they had been there. Adlet comes up with a few hypothesis as to why and I'm pretty sure one of them is that they didn't even bother setting out... Again I did recently read all the section of the LN where all the clues where given out... The anime does not show anything about them after ward leaving the viewer to assume the guys died to the fiends before reaching the temple. Again them being acomplices is fine and dandy but there's no way to establish it or think that way with what anime is given to us before the withheld clues are given. This specific clue could have been fixed by just moving Adlet's village flashback to before the mystery starts. So by the time they reach the barrier we have a precedent to suspect people at the fortress. Yet again, withheld information. There's no way to even suspect info being fake till Adlet's story of his village and the idea that humans might work with fiends. This goes back to my original point - the clues follow the way of logical thinking that is indecipherable for the viewer because the clues HINTING at that way of logical thinking are unavailable to the viewer till almost the reveal itself. black1blade said: Anyway this thread has kept me up far too long (midnight where I am at!) so I'm gonna finish the last 2/5ths of the LN and go to bed :p Yeah this "debate"(more like people defending the work they like from critique) is going nowhere. I am jut going to shift this from detective mystery to plot twisty pulp fiction genre and expect everyone of the introduced braves to be a fake and not just seventh and the real braves jut chilling outside barrier wondering why the fuck they can't pass. The anime is still good, but the mystery aspect and this whole barrier stuff has certainly been a huge let down. let's just hope everything else(the seventh, the mindgames, the unstable and untrustworthy team where nobody is a hero, the psychological mindgames being focus, etc) is not just as much of a letdown and are as promising as it seems |
AhenshihaelSep 12, 2015 4:12 PM
|
| So bunny girl instantly believes that Adlet is 7th because Maura said Hans is badly wounded? Really? She doesn't even try to confirm that? Before she would question each and everything regarding proof and whatnot but no for some reason she accepts it? Idk that felt really poorly written. They just wanted her to go full yandere retard for hell's sake. |
 |
TheNaturalPerm said: So bunny girl instantly believes that Adlet is 7th because Maura said Hans is badly wounded? Really? She doesn't even try to confirm that? Before she would question each and everything regarding proof and whatnot but no for some reason she accepts it? Idk that felt really poorly written. They just wanted her to go full yandere retard for hell's sake. Yeah, not like fact she's known Mora for much longer than Adlet wouldn't think she would lie about that or anything... |
-Panda_Hero- said: and this is quality xD  I'm so sorry I usually don't even care about these things but I had to stop and laugh at this one xD It ws so bad But how do you even notice those? I swear you all MAL users have frame by frame vision, that's unreal :D |
inb4 "The seventh is ... I don't know" |
darboux said: Jagd84 said: Yeah, not like fact she's known Mora for much longer than Adlet wouldn't think she would lie about that or anything... Or the fact that to her Hans was the 7th so adlet fighting/attacking him would be only natural? Shouldnt her reaction be ''Hans is the 7th he prolly tried to kill adlet but adlet defended himself'' ? Convenient momment to remember that she knows maura for longer time than the 3 days she knows adlet heh She was so bent on "ADLET CAN'T BE THE 7th!!!" and then she doesn't even confirm Maura's statement. If that isn't inconsistent poor writing then what is? |
|
CookingPriest said: black1blade said: I don't see why you wouldn't suspect that anyone was telling the truth especially with anything related to the barrier because all the characters present seem to know pretty much nothing about it. Because the show presented us with the info about the barrier without presenting us the possibility of any info being fake? It requires a twilight zone level of out-of-nowhere information reveal - as a similar example "you are in a mansion and you see a corpse floating in mid air. How is it possible? Because the mansion is actually a room in a space station so it has no gravity!" - its the same level of logic leap that is impossible without outside information. That's lateral thinking to its finest, which is completely different from logical thinking used by adlet to reach the truth. Anyway, you seem to continue bitching about the show needing more than 5 episodes to presents you all the clue. Which is completely ridiculous and completely against how a detective story work. Im not taking about the cheap stuff where the detective enters the crime scene and already knows the culprit but for some reason don't say it (that's poor writing and used a lot in anime). After seeing the crime scene, the Detective has to hear the other parties, looks aroudn for mroe clues, think of hypothesis, question the other side about those hypothesis to see if they work, learn new informations that disprove a part of it, then comes with a new ones that can cover the problems and conclude. if by the moment the detective concludes the reader had received all the clues and explanations necessary to find out, it's good as a mystery. If the reader didn't, it's a fatal flaw as it breaks one of the ironclad rules. Why are you trying so much to complain about the fact that some info were given after episode 5? Obviously there is some. Espeially since there is a lot of info to provide because it's using fantasy setting here. So it needs to explain properly how work the magic involved or it will not work as a detective story. That's a lot more info to give, and as good writting, you cannot throw everything to the reader in one go and bore him to death. So you keep the reader interested by making things progress while giving new infos. The point is, they were given before episode 11. A detective story is a competition between the detective, and the reader. WIth the clues given, who can reach the conclusion faster. As long as that competition is fair (no clue kept secret by the detective) and that the conclusion could be reached by both side, it's fair game and the detective story is correct. I could go on about all the other ironclad rules RnY is respecting but that's besides the point right now. It's perfectly fine as a mystery. It allowed watchers to think for weeks about the solution and was hard enough for watchers to miss the solution. I'd call that the author's win here. TheNaturalPerm said: So bunny girl instantly believes that Adlet is 7th because Maura said Hans is badly wounded? Really? She doesn't even try to confirm that? Before she would question each and everything regarding proof and whatnot but no for some reason she accepts it? Idk that felt really poorly written. They just wanted her to go full yandere retard for hell's sake. You wish ^^". So even you didn't notice that point yet. I'm really surprised no anime watcher is noticing. |
 |
| you wish? what do you even want to say with that... I don't wish for bad writing. edit: if bunny girl is 7th then it's fine I guess... |
|
TheNaturalPerm said: you wish? what do you even want to say with that... I don't wish for bad writing. So even you didn't notice then. I'm really surprised no anime watcher is noticing. Wait until the explanation of some character next episode then :p. That, or think again x) |
|
| haven't even finished watching the episode. was so mad at the beginning that I went on the forums lol :D Not too clever I admit. |
|
TheNaturalPerm said: haven't even finished watching the episode. was so mad at the beginning that I went on the forums lol :D Ah lol. Finish it and think again about what you just said then xD. n that work, it's better off thinking that there is nothing stupid or badly written. Not because it's better to be a fanboy ( x) ) but because there is usually a proper reason for everything. Keep in mind that the first book have been putting foreshadowing for following arcs as well during it too. Some of the "suspected bad writing" get explained far later. But the one you're talking about can be explained already easily and is part of those that will be explained during the anime in the last episode. |
|
Tylaen said: Obligatory meme In honor of Adlet;  I hate that picture. Jessie never says the quote that way. One of the most mis quoted lines from anything |
 |
| dat cliffhanger tho |
Valaskjalf said: inb4 "The seventh is ... I don't know" Adlet:"I will now reveal the seventh... it's... quite simple actually. Let me show you." *Begins writing complex formula* "As you can see it's quite simple. And this is what led me to believe to it:" [spoiler]  "In other words the seventh is..." ... |
Valkata said: HAHAHAHA. That's probably the CLIFFHANGER OF THE YEAR. GOD I KNEW IT WILL END LIKE THAT. I AM PISSED. I tried to search over the internet who the fake is, and there is no ANSWER ANYWHERE. you r so lucky. if you had searched in Chinese, you would find answers EVERYWHERE!! |
CookingPriest said: And if you notice I already talked about those hints but the way they were used within the mystery is complete asspull that breaks the preset rules. Now if those set-ups were used WITHIN the rules the mystery established this would actually be a good mystery. Now, even if the pieces fit, they fit according to such logic that no viewer could have genuinely used, by breaking the rules the bounds of which the viewer was supposed to think within. And that is bad writing. It feels that the author took all the set-up they did and just threw it together randomly, thinking up new random things to glue it all together. Fai, you are only complaining because you don't want to admit that you yourself couldn't solve it. All of the basic mystery rules (the common sense ones, not Knox, VD, etc.) were followed and while the fog science could be hard to come up with, it is not impossible. Some knowledge of physics and rewatching the eps was all that was needed. Granted, finding that Saint's body was maybe too hard... but it is not a part of the mystery for us watchers as it only proved Adlet's innocence and we already knew he was innocent. Only the existence of her ability and her being mentioned were that mattered. Was she forced, was she a willing culprit, was she some part of government conspiracy... none of that mattered here. No new pieces were added in this episode, all necessary pieces were hidden throughout the episodes and the science behind the fog seems legit. If any mystery rules were broken it is the inability to solve the why-dunnit (because I can't for life of me find a motive amongst any of the characters besides Goldov but somehow I doubt this kid could pull it off... though I might just be fooled by him). skudoops said: Um other than some scenes a lot of the things weren't really possible to figure out because we had no knowledge of the world or the way things worked. The fake barrier for instance.. I mean how many would really figure that out? Several episodes ago Adlet tried to solve this mystery. When it was said that no Saint could create the fog with their power, it became obvious that a round-about way was used. Actually, I am sure the whole failed solution was there only to tell us to look in that direction. ALL necessary info was given back then. Since some kind of Saint had to do it, we should have looked over Saints we had (which some of us immediately did) and some of those Saints that were only mentioned (which I did not but maybe others did). geralt said: But that's what last week's episode was for. Before then, it made sense to not really think about how the fog appeared, but after Flamie clearly stated it was impossible for two barriers to be erect at the same time, the idea that the fog was actually not related to the barrier can be thought of. The rule is that you need to have all the clues BEFORE the "Detective" says he will give us the answers. Here, that was episode 11 (I think all of us expected to find out the culprit today... which we didn't, but most of the how-dunnit is solved) which means that by episode 10 the mystery should be easy enough to solve. Zeando said: that aside, i agree with skudoops on the participation in the mystery, a well written mystery which is enjoyable to follow is one where the watcher/reader discovers the mystery alongside the characters, where you see them putting clues together, Before the solution is exposed this didn't happened, it felt more like a game of random guessing where finally one random guess got confirmed by "luck" :/ cause before discovering the body, the only revealing clue adlet used to base his theory on was the lower temperature :/ which he realized just some minutes before while running away from nashetania it was like low temperature --> seventh's plan, if anything the explanation was too abrupt and didn't allow the watcher to follow before it got revealed No, a mystery that an average person can solve before revalation is not even a proper mystery. The only lucky guess was the body, but it served only to prove what all of us already knew. The Saint herself was mentioned before as was the hot temperature (and later on I think there were also signs that it was cold). HandsomeMan said: He's right though, this series breaks pretty much every rule laid down here: http://gaslight.mtroyal.ca/vandine.htm Whatever people want to believe, this is not the next coming of jesus. In fact as far as detectives stories go, this is mediocre as fuck. You have to never had read proper detective books to not see it. I still enjoy the show, but due to how entertaining it is, not how profoundly "clever" it is. 1. Necessary parts of the Mystery are solvable 2. This is BS. But even if we consider it, the Anime got out of its way to help solve the fog trick so it is not only followed but strengthened 3. This rule applies only for pure Detective stories. Since Rokka no Yuusha is not that, this rule does not apply 4. Not broken as Adlet is not the culprit 5. Culprit is still not found so can't see how this clue goes until next ep 6. Adlet is the Detective character here 7. BS rule: murders are the most interesting objects of murder mystery, but you must be an idiot to think it is essential. Anyway, the rule obviously does not apply here 8. Broken when Adlet proved Fremmy's innocence with that syringe 9. BS rule which is not even necessary for Detective Novels. Naturally, many Detective stories do not follow it and two Detectives is a norm 10. Will need to wait for the next episode, but I doubt that the Seventh will prove to be someone else than the seven characters we have 11. Another proof that Van Dine's rules are a joke. This is not even a rule but a poor advice. Anyway, the rule does not apply here 12. ...why are people bringing Van Dine again? Of all rule-makers, his rules are most BS. A skilled mystery write could break this and still have a satisfying and solvable mystery. I don't know if Rokka follows it, but even if it doesn't it is no biggie: nobody does nowadays 13. Unless next ep reveals one, there are no secret super societies here 14. Rokka is a fantasy story so this rule can only be partially followed. Seeing as science is used here, the rule applies until someone proves the science used is BS 15. The Anime literally threw early clues into your face. In other words, followed 16. Same as rule 3 17. Seriously, couldn't you at least bring up the Knox rules? That guy made actual rules and not an essay on his tastes. Do I even need to explain why this is BS? In any case, we can't know if this rule applies until next ep 18. I will laugh it gets revealed that this was all just an accident. Technically speaking, can't know for sure until next ep but I really doubt that this rule will be broken 19. You should feel ashamed of yourself for bringing VD instead of Knox or someone else. Only half of the stuff this guy wrote are rules and even those are arguable. This is not even a proper freaking rule. Anyway, can't know until next ep if the rule is followed 20. You know VD, you could just have made this 30 rules... All the rules are either followed, partially followed due to genre or we won't know until next ep, besides rule 8. One rule is not "pretty much every rule" though. And again: Van Dine? Please, next time use someone else like Knox whose rules are universal. Van Dine's rules are just an essay on what the guy likes while as a rule-set it is so weak that no mystery writer actually follows them nowadays And since I mentioned Knox rules... http://www.thrillingdetective.com/trivia/triv186.html 1. Won't know until next ep, but is likely one of the seven heroes. You don't need to know the rules to be pissed if it proves to be anyone else 2. Only applies for Detective stories. Can't be followed at all by Rokka due to it being a Fantasy fiction 3. Characters confirmed that there are no secret passages into the temple. Can still be retconed later though, but doubt it 4. Broken, the fog needed a long scientific explanation (there, he already did better than VD :P ) 5. Right now, there is no Chinaman (for those who wonder what that means, Chinaman is something like a super-genius villain behind everything) 6. Broken by finding the Sun Saint. But as I mentioned, finding her is not important for the mystery 7. Adlet did not commit the crime 8. The item Adlet used to prove Fremmy's innocence. But that is the only one AFAIK 9. There is no Wattson (a character fully representing a confused reader... or watcher in this case) in this story so it can't be broken. 10. We know of no doubles or twins so it can still be broken. But I really doubt it that we will find out that one of characters had an evil twin/double responsible for all this Three rules are broken. One is that science should not be used. But seeing as today people are much better educated than in Knox's time, this rule is not as meaningful anymore (though it is always preferred to not have too much science in Detective fiction). In other words, I wouldn't say it really counts for modern stories unless the science is really high level. The second rule is finding the Sun Saint by chance. But I already talked about it twice. The worst rule is Fremmy's innocence being proved by a supernatural item. That's really it. |
NayraelSep 12, 2015 4:51 PM
 |
| Yep, yep, obviously the episode ended right there. Next episode, can't wait! This episode was just fantastic. Adlet's analysis was just spot on and well thought out, just great. Damn though, that next episode will be the final.... |
  |
| ARE YOU FKING KIDDING ME ?????????? WHO IS IT ? WHOOO IIIIIIIS IIIIIIIIIIIIT ? |
HandsomeMan said: Nayrael seems to be having her period His :P Though I wouldn't bother to post all that if I were angry XP |
|
HandsomeMan said: Nayrael seems to be having her period Men have periods!? Nayrael said: His :P Though I wouldn't bother to post all that if I were angry XP Glad you did. It eased my heart. |
 |
juicykitten95 said: ARE YOU FKING KIDDING ME ?????????? WHO IS IT ? WHOOO IIIIIIIS IIIIIIIIIIIIT ? It's... |
GSupernova said: CookingPriest said: The twist of private working with the seventh, which had absolutely zero foreshadowing and just appeared out of nowhere last episode. . Definitely did have foreshadowing... I mentioned this possibility multiple episodes ago, before it was addressed by Adlet. not sure if speculation of the audience counts as foreshadowing in the case of the fortress a foreshadowing would have been if there was anything odd happening while they were following the private around, but during their trip in the fortress nothing suspicious happened, so there was no foreshadowing |
ZeandoSep 12, 2015 5:00 PM
 Fixes to make the Profile more bearable after "the Modern★Profile★Update★★Rip★Profile★" |
Tylaen said: HandsomeMan said: Nayrael seems to be having her period Men have periods!? Well, one can act like a woman on a period. And I admit, VD can sometimes annoy me to that extent. |
|
CookingPriest said: Zefyris said: So I'm going to ask those complaining that they could not find out because they were lacking some clues what exactly were they still lacking. Hmm? I'm waiting. There was everything. There was no new info needed to make them fit together. No asspull. The info about how barriers work. Throwing out every pre-set parameter like barrier activation, how it is done, when it happened, etc. Randomly finding Riura's body in the middle of huge forest because plot required it for explanation. The twist of private working with the seventh, which had absolutely zero foreshadowing and just appeared out of nowhere last episode. In these last two or three episodes, the show kept bringing in the new info to make the clues fit. Thus there was absolutely no way to actually figure out what is going on. The narrative presented us with a mystery. And then in the last part of it suddenly threw out all the parts of it out of the window to answer it. Sure it fits together but without a shitload of things thrown into viewer's face in last two or so episodes, there as no way to actually put the pieces together. And that is bad in terms of writing a mystery. ANy more and this "trap of the seventh" would be as logical and grounded and explainable as the plans and traps of Lelouch Lamperouge or Light Yagami. As in total nonsense. We were told everything about how the barriers worked prior to episode 11. So before watching 11, you had the knowledge of how the barriers worked. Adlet himself helped with the barrier theory by throwing his ideas out. He said himself that he thought the barrier was activated by someone else when they entered and the initial activation was fake. He gave the theory about fake Lauren a while ago. I reiterate - you had this information before episode 11. Adlet explained the placement of Riura's body. Chamot's pets were mentioned to be able to tunnel underground. Chamot is the world's strongest saint. Its likely she'd be a brave in the fog, so the fiends needed a place to hide the body where her fiends wouldn't wander past/dig. How many other locations are there other than a fiend's corpse? Don't forget the corpse had to be close to the temple as it had to hear the signal cry from the transforming one. Also, the presence of outsiders in the form of Lauren and Riura was suggested by Adlet ages ago, when he mentioned an eighth. And by that point, Riura and Lauren were both mentioned and the transforming fiend too. The presence of the transforming fiend also gave suggestions that not all humans seen may have been totally human, i.e. the humans in the fort. Anyway, tl;dr If you analyze the first 10 episodes, you would have found all the clues you needed for this theory of how it activated by paying attention and theorizing. Nothing new was thrown in this episode 11, and that's what matters. Everything was hinted at or suggested in some way, even the change in temperature. |
| Okay, so this is talking a lt about the 20 rules. Peoples talk about them WITHOUT KNOWING ALL THERE IS TO KNOW and decides by themselves which one is respected. You want to know? I'll put inside spoiler the number of the rules and those who are respected/not respected. BEWARE, some of the answer will surprise you so they are technically linked to a spoiler. I'm not writing spoiler there, only if yes or no the rule is respected, but when it contradict what you were thinking, this may lead you to conclusion that you would have liked to avoid concluding. Don't open except if you're decided to believe that RnY is too bad as a detective story to be worth continuing with reading/watching further volumes. You have been warned. If you just want the conclusion , it's respecting 16 of 19 rules (one rule left out for being a special case). Among those not respected, one mention that it cannot be fantasy setting with magic, which is obviously breached. The other 2 are minor rules that are in no way rules to absolutely respect to do a mystery. As a matter of fact, those two rules don't appear in other list of detective story rules and are mostly the rules list's author's preferences, which are quite extremist. |
ZefyrisSep 12, 2015 5:14 PM
|
darboux said: Equitum said: Adlet was incapacitated by his many wounds and effectively captured. There was no need to attack/kill him right away, like Maura and Nachetanya wanted to. yes there was if he was the 7th.It was the best chance for him to kill him with no suspicion. About what he did at ep 5 was because nashetania played jealous game with his head. Nashetania : goes insane to sane whenever it is convenient and acted suspicious since the first episode. She also played around with the knife ''accidentally'' broke the plate and said i will be the mistress of the barrier or weird stuff like that.... *poor* princess that has been trained to fight as a saint,lived through civil war and was set to execution(by her own father i think gonna need rewatch),didnt have any problem fighting fiends on her own and did not loose her cool.BUT 1)She suddenly gets ''excited'' attacks adlet when they were alone 2)She looses her cool when inside the temple all conveniently and calms down in 1 second after she broke the plate. 3)Resolves her mind to prove adlet innocent!!!!because hans is the 7th!!! but she hears maura saying adlet injured hans and immediately goes *adlet which i only know for 3 days betrayed i am so innocent* and goes mental to kill him till last moment.......If she was so resolved then maura saying adlet attacked hans makes sense because in her mind Hans was the 7th.......not to mention someone that was set to execution by her people wouldnt be so surprised or go mad over a guy she knows for 3 days betraying her lol. Or waiit she is so innocent that she does not know her own kingdom hires assasins when she herself was about to be executed and she knows firsthand how cruel people can be ok sure...l Maybe because she's mentally unstable? |
GSupernova said: Zeando said: not sure if speculation of the audience counts as foreshadowing in the case of the fortress a foreshadowing would have been if there was anything odd happening while they were following the private around, but during their trip in the fortress nothing suspicious happened, so there was no foreshadowing The fact that there was a fiend attack on the fortress and only like 12 survivors(when there were corpses littered everywhere inside of the fortress, suggesting the walls were breached) was suspicious in itself, which I mentioned when I brought it up. Agree that it didn't give a whole lot to go on by itself, but with the knowledge that fiends can take on the appearance of humans I don't really think there's a leap in logic or anything. If it was overtly foreshadowed I don't really think most of the middle part of the story would really function the right way. never said it should have been overtly, nor easy to notice, but there was hardly anything to stand out the thing is there should be a balance between the characters and the audience, if a clue is hidden too well so that the audience doesn't notice it, how could the characters notice it instead? if the difference between audience and characters becomes too big the believability of the resolution of the mystery gets damaged, which is what happened from my point of view, the way the clues were exposed and the solution got reached was not executed very well unless the characters are all geniuses like in phi brain (which is full of asspulls, but doesn't takes itself seriously), in which case the audience isn't expected to solve anything but just wait for the solution to be given to them (which anyway is what many watchers did even for this show..) |
Fixes to make the Profile more bearable after "the Modern★Profile★Update★★Rip★Profile★" |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Rokka no Yuusha Episode 12 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Sep 19, 2015 |
984 |
by Dawizz
»»
May 27, 4:42 AM |
|
Poll: » Who is the strongest of the braves? ( 1 2 )jbeat - Jul 25, 2015 |
65 |
by Talamare
»»
Apr 16, 4:00 PM |
|
Poll: » Rokka no Yuusha Episode 2 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Jul 11, 2015 |
292 |
by alphxmane
»»
Jan 10, 9:49 PM |
|
Poll: » Do you have a favorite character? ( 1 2 3 )IncestEmblem - Aug 18, 2015 |
111 |
by Gator
»»
Nov 29, 2023 12:41 PM |
|
Poll: » Rokka no Yuusha Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Sep 5, 2015 |
576 |
by Gator
»»
Nov 28, 2023 8:46 AM |