Thoughts on this whole 'South Park' issue?

animechap said:

this.

ShibuyaRiver said:
There is a limit to freedom of speech when it starts to hurt someone. Perhaps I should start calling black people the N word... Why? Because it’s my freedom of speech. If you have 1 billion people saying not to make fun of their prophet and it is considerd a blasphemy to show any physical form of the prophet Muhammad then maybe you should respect those 1 billion people. Freedom of speech goes both ways. Muslims, in general, have every right to condemn South Park if they feel offended or disrespected.

ShibuyaRiver said:

People here will say "oh but what about Jesus. They show his pictures all the time". Well in Christianity it is okay to draw images of jesus. The reason why it is not allowed to show the prophet Muhammad in pictures is because the people used to worship Idol's before him so if it was allowed to show the prophet Muhammad’s images they would have made a statue of him and start worshiping that.

ukonkivi said:
This whole topic reminds me of how at Narutofan forums a topic about someone peeing on the Quran was brought up, and I said I should have the freedom to do such things and anyone who wants to partake in blasphemy should. And that nobody should dare impede upon our freedom of expression if we want to do such a thing as we aren't hurting anybody who doesn't deserve to be hurt by words and free speech.

And I got a temporary ban for racism.

Honestly, piling up things like this make me WANT to partake in more blasphemy. I mean, how can you not feel irritated at the special treatment religious groups get?

ukonkivi said:
This whole topic reminds me of how at Narutofan forums a topic about someone peeing on the Quran was brought up, and I said I should have the freedom to do such things and anyone who wants to partake in blasphemy should. And that nobody should dare impede upon our freedom of expression if we want to do such a thing as we aren't hurting anybody who doesn't deserve to be hurt by words and free speech.

And I got a temporary ban for racism.

Honestly, piling up things like this make me WANT to partake in more blasphemy. I mean, how can you not feel irritated at the special treatment religious groups get?

Nabi123 said:
Can everyone stop grouping the people who threatened the creators of south park with the rest of the muslim world. Why do you assume that every muslim wants them dead? Sure I believe that what they did was wrong but I don't want them dead, I will just not watch the show and ignore it. But then again I guess that it is what I should expect of people who believe fox news and the rest of the media when they say that the whole of the muslim world are a bunch of terrorists

Nabi123 said:
Can everyone stop grouping the people who threatened the creators of south park with the rest of the muslim world. Why do you assume that every muslim wants them dead? Sure I believe that what they did was wrong but I don't want them dead, I will just not watch the show and ignore it. But then again I guess that it is what I should expect of people who believe fox news and the rest of the media when they say that the whole of the muslim world are a bunch of terrorists

Drunk_Samurai said:
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/23/its-on-everybody-draw-mohammed-day-set-for-may-20th/

Nabi123 said:
Can everyone stop grouping the people who threatened the creators of south park with the rest of the muslim world. Why do you assume that every muslim wants them dead? Sure I believe that what they did was wrong but I don't want them dead, I will just not watch the show and ignore it. But then again I guess that it is what I should expect of people who believe fox news and the rest of the media when they say that the whole of the muslim world are a bunch of terrorists

Drunk_Samurai said:


There are many Muslims who think the episode should not be aired. That's just as much bullshit as wanting the creators dead.

Defiance said:
Yes, let's blame fox news for Muslim extremism/Islamists, THAT'S BOUND TO WORK! If you want to shake off the image, start standing up to the people who are really giving you the bad name.... the Islamists themselves.

To me it just sounds like you prefer to attack the messenger more than the one who wrote the message. Islamism is a real threat to free speech and it should be held as such.

Neiru2012 said:
I don't know about anybody else, but I'm not blaming Muslims or Islam, just the extremist individuals who made the threats. All the Muslims I know are very nice, mature people. For those who think Sharia law is oppressive, if you let Christian fundamentalists run the government, or reinstate Mosaic Law, you'll end up with the exact same thing. None of the Muslims I know want Sharia law (plus how true Sharia law is to the Koran is debatable), and if you want to accuse them of not being true Muslims, then you gotta say the same about Christians and Jews who ignore most of the laws from their own holy books. The fact is the Abrahamic religions have mellowed out over the centuries, keeping the essence of the faith and reinterpreting the literal verses into a modern context.

Nabi123 said:


How is not wanting the episode to air the same as wanting someone dead?

Drunk_Samurai said:


Censorship is bullshit no matter what the reason. Comedy Central was retarded to censor it just because some Muslims didn't like it.

nabi123 said:
I am not blaming fox news for Muslims extremism I am blaming them for showing Islam in the light that it makes it seem as though the whole of the muslim world hold extremist views, when in fact this is not true and it is only a small minority who are the extremists. So rather than listen to the messenger and believe everything they say you should find out information for yourself

Defiance said:
The only reason it seems to you that Muslims are being portrayed as a whole to be extremists by the media is because the moderate muslims aren't doing nearly enough to voice their opposition to the Islamists.

Besides in western countries, muslims aren't as moderate as you portrait them anyway. To say "well its only a small part of the muslims that think this way" is a complete fallacy. There are ENTIRE COUNTRIES that enforce sharia.

So in my opinion, what you are trying to do is delegitimize the extremism threat by saying "well its only a few of them" when in reality it is a much more serious problem.

Defiance said:
The only reason it seems to you that Muslims are being portrayed as a whole to be extremists by the media is because the moderate muslims aren't doing nearly enough to voice their opposition to the Islamists.

Besides in western countries, muslims aren't as moderate as you portrait them anyway. To say "well its only a small part of the muslims that think this way" is a complete fallacy. There are ENTIRE COUNTRIES that enforce sharia.

So in my opinion, what you are trying to do is delegitimize the extremism threat by saying "well its only a few of them" when in reality it is a much more serious problem.

Hoppy said:
Actually the moderates do try very hard to get their message of opposition to the radicals out but just like in the videos of the summits, they get drowned out by the radicals

Defiance said:
This is my point though. How does a (self-proclaimed by nabi123) majority get drowned out by the minority?

Nabi123 said:
Well if you refer back the point I made about the media you will have your answer

Defiance said:
Scapegoating the media doesn't help your argument. As a matter of fact, the media goes out its way specifically not to offend muslims. A perfect example would be the very topic this thread is based about. Comedy central gave special treatment to muslims(which they have not given to other religions) and censored what they had broadcast.

Defiance said:
Scapegoating the media doesn't help your argument. As a matter of fact, the media goes out its way specifically not to offend muslims. A perfect example would be the very topic this thread is based about. Comedy central gave special treatment to muslims(which they have not given to other religions) and censored what they had broadcast.

So I really don't see why they would go out of they way to demonize the general population of muslims(who you say are moderates), yet bend and censor themselves not to anger the few that are crazy(the islamists).

ESSWHY said:
Also, just because you live in a country doesn't mean you like everything it is doing.

Defiance said:
Scapegoating the media doesn't help your argument. As a matter of fact, the media goes out its way specifically not to offend muslims. A perfect example would be the very topic this thread is based about. Comedy central gave special treatment to muslims(which they have not given to other religions) and censored what they had broadcast.

So I really don't see why they would go out of they way to demonize the general population of muslims(who you say are moderates), yet bend and censor themselves not to anger the few that are crazy(the islamists).

Esley said:

Don't bother with him...

Esley said:
Don't bother with him...

Nabi123 said:
So what if I am part of the muslim club, why should defiance not bother with me, am I an extremist myself just because I am part of this club?

Defiance said:
Besides in western countries, muslims aren't as moderate as you portrait them anyway. To say "well its only a small part of the muslims that think this way" is a complete fallacy. There are ENTIRE COUNTRIES that enforce sharia.

Defiance said:
Talk about straw manning an argument >_>

Esley said:

Nah, I don't think any "extremist" would visit MAL forums.

Just that it's obvious where's your standing, of course you're going to defend it.

Neiru2012 said:

Most of the people on this forum are Christian. Does this mean they should have no say in an issue that involves their religion? Should atheists not speak about religious issues since they're biased against religion? That's a ridiculous argument.

Neiru2012 said:
Most of the people on this forum are Christian.

Neiru2012 said:
Does this mean they should have no say in an issue that involves their religion?

Nabi123 said:
The fact that comedy central censored the program itself is an example of how the media works. By doing the censoring they made the whole situation bigger than it should have been. So rather than just let the whole blow over they have given unnecessary attention to the extremists.

Beatnik said:
We're in the 21st century peeps, there's no need to disregard an entire faith because of various sects. That's too lazy.

Defiance said:
Islamism is a real threat to free speech and it should be held as such.

Defiance said:
You are really making my head hurt man. So let me get this straight, they censored the episode(as not to blaspheme Mohammad and piss off muslims) just so they could....piss off muslims? This only became big in the headlines after some American muslim group made a threat against the creators

Sure the episode pissed of some muslims but they made the whole thing bigger than it should have been by censuring the episode thus leading people to go wtf why was the ep censured and blame Islam and led them to think that Islam is a threat to democray as you say. If they really wanted to "protect" muslim feelings the they would have not played the episode.



If you believe my argument is to demonize the entire muslim faith, you must have misinterpreted me. My whole point was that you should not delegitimize the islamist threat to democracy as if there was only a tiny fraction of the muslim population participating in it, when in fact there are whole countries enforcing the draconian laws of sharia. Which I said in my first statement...I find it a little contradicting btw when you said you're a muslim or you're not then go on to differentiate these so called "real" muslims from whatever else you want to call them. So you are saying the islamists are not muslims? Or they are "fake" muslims(to use an antonym to your word)?

Yes that is exactly it they are not real muslims most of the muslim world does not consider them to be muslims. Again what countries? Please name them

Nabi123 said:
Again what countries? Please name them

Defiance said:
Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to name a few.

Nabi123 said:


Well if you go to Iran you will see women walking around with short sleeve shirts on and the same can be said for Pakistan(my parents are from there and I went back there last summer). Trust me if they had sharia this would not be happening. Here is a perfect example of believing what you see in the news

Defiance said:
So you are telling me these countries have no sharia laws whatsoever?

No they do have sharia law in the remote lawless places, for example in Pakistan they have it in the north west of the country in the remote mountains which at the moment have the army in there tying to fight the terrorists. But it is certainly not the whole country as you were saying.

Beatnik said:
There's no such thing as a 'moderate' muslim. You're a muslim or you're not. The ones that are have nothing in common with the loonies, so as a result they have very little to comment on the loonies crazy antics. What do you want from them? You want them to make statements like "We are against those crazy dudes who want to kill people for drawing pictures!" Yay, well done. That achieved a lot, huh?

I think the fact is that real muslims want nothing to do with the crazy guys. If they speak out against them then it's as if they are legitimising the crazy guys idea that they are in the same religious group. By distancing themselves from the crazies, the real muslims can create a divide. Obviously this concept is not working these days, because as we can see in this thread there are labels like 'moderate' and 'extremist' bandied about.

Its kind of hilarious how there is this burgeoning idea that islam makes people go crazy. There's like billions of self-proclaimed muslims on this planet, but how many of them are nutjobs ruining peoples lives? Sure there's quite a few of those types running around the planet blowing shit up or enforcing dystopic laws, at least the media paints that picture for us constantly, but a billion of them? No.

Every literary, philosophical and spiritual piece of work will have followers that disagree on how the work should be understood. It's like the law of averages. We're in the 21st century peeps, there's no need to disregard an entire faith because of various sects. That's too lazy. Look at the sufis or alevis for example, they're muslims too but you don't see them threatening cartoonists!

Anyway, this whole South Park debacle has indeed left a sour taste, even though Matt and Trey 'won' because the entire point of the episode was proven by the people the episode was mocking.

Nabi123 said:
No they do have sharia law in the remote lawless places, for example in Pakistan they have it in the north west of the country in the remote mountains which at the moment have the army in there tying to fight the terrorists. But it is certainly not the whole country as you were saying.

Nabi123 said:
Yes that is exactly it they are not real muslims most of the muslim world does not consider them to be muslims.

Schezar said:
What the deuce? We were talking of extremists giving death threats, which being a Muslim myself, I assure you even I find ridiculous. But how is giving death threats = to enforcing Shariah? It's their bloody free will they want to follow the law being Muslims. Who gives a shit to what you an outsider thinks of it?