Why are most female characters in shonen garbage?

Minute_Hand said:
"tsunade is pathetic hokage"
Lmao , there isn't anything wrong with tsunade you are just retarded.

I am pretty much convinced this is a bait thread , but still I would like to give you a chance.

what do you believe to be a well written female character in anime / manga , give me 5/6 examples. I don't get it , A female character needs to be stronger than their male counterparts to be considered well written, is that what you're trying to say?

Schwarznight said:


I am assuming you didn't see or read it. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. I think a majority of the fanbase became livid about how Historia was treated. No respect. Made no sense either. I just think male authors (maybe female as well) are bad when it comes to romance or that type of interaction. It's so awkward. In some cases, it is just misogynistic.

Scud said:
Are the male characters really any better? Can't remember the last shounen character I actually liked.

FanofAction said:

Actually, yeah I did see it. That doesn't change my thoughts on this. I I didn't really agree with it, but I could wrap my head around the decision within the show. Its like the Shield Hero thing. I know slavery is fucked up, but I could understand why the mc resorted to that.

naerbo said:
Oh. That. It's a multitude of different reasons all playing a part, so just pointing to one would be a disservice to you. These are the reasons I have thought of now, but there are certainly more:
- Wish fulfilment for target demographic. You draw what your audience wants, or at least sells.
- Some haven't enough training in creating realistic or at least deeper female characters and might not even need to, so why bother.
- I don't know if this is a reason at all, bu Japan is a different country to many other countries with all that follows including, but not limited to: laws, norms, societal expectations, and more. And as far as I know Japan has had a reputation to be more conservative than other countries we consume media from. And as such the culture of Japan (a little to broad a term) permeates through everything created there.

I personally subscribe to the thinking that all these factors, and more, play a role in some form or another. I am however aware that this might not be able to completely answer for the lack of female depth in shounen. I also want you take this with a grain of salt as I have no literature backing up my reasoning and therefore I might be seriously wrong.

Schwarznight said:


Hey, thanks for putting so much thought into your response. I agree. I think I am pretty satisfied with everyone's contribution. It's not easy to answer. And, as some have rightfully said, a lot of male characters are also garbage. Female authors also get it wrong, so it's not exclusive to male authors or even shounen. People have pointed out that this problem is not just limited to shounen and the works of male authors... In any case....It might also be more obvious because there tends to be a disproportionate number of guys in most shounen. So weak female characters in terms of emotional and intellectual development stick out more...as the author has to nail it. When there are, say, 10 females and 50 males, it is much easier to see flaws in the females. This might also be one of the reasons. Also, with many characters, it's easy to get lost...Some characters don't get developed properly due to the scope of the universe. Still, it doesn't fully explain why some of the main females tend to be inferior to their male counterparts (and I am not comparing the females against the protagonist), i.e., other side characters.

naerbo said:

No problem. I enjoy discussions with at least some depth and not the usual VS. or what do like more (ore less).

You can also see male characters don't get very much depth outside a minimum amount of people. The reason why they might be noticed less is partly due to people being used to them not having depth and not missing said depth due to partly the target audience paying more attention to the female characters or protagonist.

Another reason is that if you have 50 males in a work, the author skips quite a few, but he/she has more training in writing personalities or depth for males and it will show when you get to the few female characters. From what little shoujo I have read the opposite is true. I.e. if you write 25 females and 5-10 males and aren't used to write somewhat grounded males you will end up with the same scenario with the genders switched.

Another thing to consider, though might be very minor, is that any features of a gender that is missing or exaugurated is more apparent to the same gender. I notice more when the male characters is shallow and seems contrived in a shoujo than when a female character is contrived in a shounen.

I sometimes have a really hard time articulating my arguments and they sound great in my head and come out a tad out of order in writing. Sorry about that.

Schwarznight said:



I understood what you said, and I agree. Many excellent points have been raised in this thread. I just hope that the moderators don't take this thread down. They might say it should be a Blog...as my opening feels like a rant, where I am asking people to agree. MAL's rules can be annoying. The thread might be removed.

Schwarznight said:
Claymore:
Teresa - badass and lit af...her cold personality softened and she got development in a short space of time

JaniSIr said:

Oh ye, that's something I have watched.
Those 2-3 episodes of flashbacks convinced me to not drop the anime, but then the entire rest of it was garbage.
Kinda like how I watched Akame ga kill for the romantic subplot. Also wasn't worth it whatsoever.

cosmico456 said:
gotta pander to the incels that just want busty/cutesy females rather than actually making them well written 😔😔😔

Schwarznight said:



Yeah, Claymore had some issues after a major incident happened. Still, I think Teresa was class. I think maybe it was poorly adapted. Not sure how faithful it was to the manga.

LostSpectre said:
You have pretty much admitted in the thread that you don't actually care about a well written female character, you just want to see a female character that's more or less a male in every respective way. So, I have a great recommendation for you in the new He-Man Masters of the Universe reboot.

TinaTunaTina said:
I agree with shows like mha and aot its like the females are just put on the back burner and have little purpose. Maybe you should watch something like Black Lagoon or JJK, both have badass females that aren't sexualized and have good development.

TinaTunaTina said:
I agree with shows like mha and aot its like the females are just put on the back burner and have little purpose. Maybe you should watch something like Black Lagoon or JJK, both have badass females that aren't sexualized and have good development.

LoveLikeBlood said:
Shounen is generally written by men, who are more familiar with male perspectives than female perspectives. It's also written for teenage boys, so there's not a great deal of incentive to provide female characters with a substantive amount of complexity.

Schwarznight said:


Wrong. Where did I say that? Look at my post where I listed some great females. I wasn't talking about physical powers. That's just one side. Often, the females are just there as a love interest...They are so awkward and serve no purpose other than to enhance the male's presence.

Phosphophyllita said:

Yep, I hope nobody cares about my shit opinion.
Have a great weekend.

LostSpectre said:
You don't have to spell it out word for word, it's there between the lines. You also just admitted to looking down on female characters if they are love interests, implying they're lesser characters who are only complementing a presumably superior male character. That's some textbook feminist bullshit.

Schwarznight said:
That makes sense. I think what bothers me is more the misogynistic angle. Some chaarcters are just sloppy. They don't need to be deep, but don't stick them in a kitchen with their boobs hanging out sort of thing. I mean there are different genres, but in some shounen, women are just reduced to objects... It seems intentional, as if the mangaka has some hatred towards women. Maybe I am reading too much into it.

LostSpectre said:
Now you're denigrating female characters in domestic roles, and sexually shaming them on top of that, nice. It's not uncommon for female characters to be drawn as sexually appealing, but dismissing them as "objects" is certainly a sexist way of viewing it. Personally, I wouldn't devalue a female character just because I find them sexually appealing.

Schwarznight said:



No, you just keep making your own assumptions. There is a difference between a developed love interest and an object of affection. Even in romance, it is possible to have a strong female lead in a relationship, not the subservient type that is coy, ticking various stereotypes. You do know that in a relationship, there are two people. Nothing wrong with being a love interest. But there is something wrong when the girl is just clumsy with big tits, and serves no purpose other than that. Hope you can see that. My qualm is more with the difference in attention. Males tend to be developed better, and I don't just mean in terms of powers and physical abilities. Even on emotional levels. Stop being so butthurt.

AwokenStroken said:
You know the male characters are often bad too right?
It's not just because it's men who write it, even (female) battle shonen characters written by women are shit.

Schwarznight said:


No, you are just trolling at this point. Come back with more cogent points, because you are starting to sound argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. I have defended my point well. You just like being difficult.

LostSpectre said:
Male characters are hardly developed better in shonen, you're just viewing roles more commonly associated with females, negatively. Claiming Hinata serves no purpose is evidence of that. You're also ignoring the surrealist nature of shonen, these are not characters in fucking literature, expecting them to act like fully competent human beings is going way too far. lol

LostSpectre said:
You haven't, actually. You just have a typically sexist, feminist mindset in regard to female characters, nothing else to see here.

Schwarznight said:



Be honest, you are just a triggered AoT fanboy. I shat on Mikasa, etc., and now you are bitter. Saw that you gave the latest season 9/10. I understand, my man. I understand. Stop with the feminist bullshit.

LostSpectre said:
I don't give a fuck about Mikasa lol. You're the one spouting feminist bullshit, and you're telling me to stop? Interesting.

ryumance said:
Option 1: Men don't know how to write women
Option 2: They just want their girls to be shallow wank material
Option 3: They ran out of brain juice after writing all the boys

Nowadays there are a good handful of colourful girls in anime tho

Schwarznight said:



No, you are just a sensitive snowflake, who is making lots of assumptions. You assumed that when I meant love interest, that I implied both parties are equal. There is a difference between a fleshed out male character, with superpowers...high intellect, etc., and a cardboard damsel in distress. The woman can be attractive...but if that is the only thing she has...then that is sloppy...and clear bait from the managaka to appeal to teenagers. Don't bring this feminist bullshit if you can't form cogent arguments.

LostSpectre said:
There wasn't an assumption, you're just an open book. I also can't help it if you're incapable of comprehending my points that relate to feminism. lol

Cheers.

Schwarznight said:



Same shit happens in Bollywood as well. Must be a problem across most of Asia, tbh. Backwards.

Either a love interest or damsel in distress, etc.

Luckily, Kagura from Gintama is great.

KIOSHI_17 said:

Yup, kagura and girls from bleach are some of the few ones that I recall being good female shounen characters.

Schwarznight said:

Annie was cold. I agree. Potato girl was a decent comic relief...but it got boring after a while. Hange was okay. My fav female character in AoT was Annie as well. Can't forget what she did to my girl Petra, though, lol. Team Levi got done dirty.

TinaTunaTina said:
It's different from being fanserviced and having sex appeal. I dont mind if a woman knows shes sexy and takes pride in it, thats not fanservice. Random ass shots and boob shots is fanservice. They never sexualized Revy in that show. She was a good badass female with development and she might have sex appeal, but I'm not attracted to women so I wouldn't know.

Schwarznight said:
The coolest and strongest characters are the guys.

Schwarznight said:


That is not the issue, though. Like in Attack on Titan, for example, Historia, one of the main female characters, was reduced to a baby maker... She got impregnated by a guy who used to throw rocks at her... What is the mangaka trying to say here? Or what about Mikasa...who obsesses over Eren ...She has barely a will of her own. Even Levi, an ackerman, has more independence... This is not just lazy writing. This is downright offensive.

DeepRiver said:


Lmao, but the things Shojo offer arent simply the same, not to mention how a lot of these female shojo MC are a lot of time bland girly girls, and overwhelmed by these shitty male characters and their obnoxious abusive tropes.