Why do many people born in 2000s whine about lewdness or act ashamed of having body that gets turned on by things?
New
Jun 1, 9:51 PM
#1
I thought it was just an American issue but it's actually global. |
Jun 1, 9:59 PM
#2
Because they are brought up in a strictly liberal family, they have been influenced to prefer vinland saga shirtless characters and hate dirty pair. |
Jun 1, 10:02 PM
#3
If I had to guess, it's either a form of contrarianism where being prudish is somehow considered rebellious to them or they're full-blown porn addicts who are coping by pretending to be prudes and be no-fun-allowed to everyone else instead of fixing their own issue. |
Jun 2, 12:02 AM
#4
This has been the case ever since I got to interact with the Western anime community as early as the 2010s. People were whining back then too. |
Jun 2, 12:16 AM
#5
It's all because of derivatives. Can't believe I have to explain this to someone so financially literate. See, back in the primal days, a hairy monkey with a swinging dick met a slightly less hairy monkey with boobs, and boom - straightforward valuation, assets on the table, no shame, no shame-based inflation. Fast forward a few millennia, and now we have built so many psychological and cultural derivatives on top of those basic assets - shame, guilt, performance anxiety, social taboos - that no one knows how to assess real value anymore. Your original capital is still there, but you are stuck trying to trade in a market full of overleveraged expectations and emotional volatility. And worst of all? You make an assertive move, your prediction fails, and you take an L on the emotional ledger. That's not just shame - it's sunk cost. No wonder people walk around hiding their IPOs. |
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
Jun 2, 12:34 AM
#6
Dumb cultural trends hyped up by social media algorithms that promote negative emotions being the most engaging for their financial profit. It isn't an age specific thing but someone younger on average will have spent more time exposed to this without experiences to help them be capable of even questioning it when their whole life has been a brainwashing program for capitalist greed. Not that this is particularly new but the current influences are a lot more dangerous from how tailored they are to each individual. There also is a sort of Hegelian dialectics at play where history is looping back to like it was in the past as a reaction of contrarianism to more positive sexuality and nudity. Of course with this pattern means there should be many against this but they are too afraid to speak out because of how extreme things have gotten their lives would be in danger. |
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Jun 2, 12:44 AM
#7
My best guess would be is it's probably the generation itself. These individuals are raised to complain about everything and anyone that disagrees with them when it comes to topics that they don't like, and since they were born in the era of the internet that gives them a louder voice then any of the pre internet generation had. Many of these individuals are not used to not getting their way in life. Wanting things spoon fed for them. |
Jun 2, 3:00 AM
#8
Honestly I wonder that myself sometimes. I blame social media. |
Jun 2, 3:21 AM
#9
There are people from previous eras complaining about this kind of thing, from what I understand those who are trying to ban any kind of nudity in the United States are prejudiced old people and not young adults or teenagers. |
Jun 2, 3:49 AM
#10
Jun 2, 3:49 AM
#11
people whined about having dicks but no chicks all the time |
Jun 2, 4:41 AM
#12
Probably a pushback sort of thing as like sort of rebellion against the norm of lewdness. Like seriously perverted shit has never been this common and popular so as people that are still finding themselves (the ones that are under 20) it's pretty common to go against the norm of sociaties. |
Jun 2, 4:43 AM
#13
Reply to Nysse
Probably a pushback sort of thing as like sort of rebellion against the norm of lewdness. Like seriously perverted shit has never been this common and popular so as people that are still finding themselves (the ones that are under 20) it's pretty common to go against the norm of sociaties.
@Nysse Nah, Weimar Republic had it worse than we do right now actually. So did early 20th century Communist Russia. But the West are headed there. The internet is accelerating everything and the reach is global rather than isolated now. |
Jun 2, 5:04 AM
#14
Reply to minzera
@Nysse Nah, Weimar Republic had it worse than we do right now actually. So did early 20th century Communist Russia. But the West are headed there. The internet is accelerating everything and the reach is global rather than isolated now.
@minzera fair fair didn't mean the current being unique. Also the Weimar Republic is a good example of a place and era where certain types of expression were more prominent than people would think |
Jun 2, 5:07 AM
#15
Hmm... idk but |
Jun 2, 6:38 AM
#16
Assuming this is the case, then maybe they think it's trendy to deny and suppress their sexual desires. |
No, this isn't my signature. |
Jun 2, 7:14 AM
#17
It's most likely because of unwanted sexual advances, mostly done by guys who might try to hide it when it doesn't lead to the desired results by making it seem like a joke or some sort of accident. Given the rise of social media apps where you can more easily share photos and have the whole chat deleted from the other side as well, it's not surprising that such occurences can happen more frequently and that this sort of behavior would become off-putting particularly to girls/women who may not be amused from seing your thing or you talking about your thing without any prior buildup. But I can also understand that it can become quite taxing if many guys have tried their luck before and that girls/women may either flee more in Yuri relationships because they can satisfy their emotional desires better than sexually deprived guys or end up having their libido down as some form of maladjustment |
Jun 2, 7:51 AM
#18
The Bible says don't be a degenerate. |
MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
Jun 2, 7:55 AM
#19
Jun 2, 7:59 AM
#20
This question is framed in bad faith. For a real answer, some of us are female and know full well the men who air their lewdness in public tend to be those we don't want to meet in real life (obviously, it's possible to be horny and still respect women, but these men usually give away their misogyny quite readily). |
Jun 2, 8:09 AM
#21
Jun 2, 8:13 AM
#22
Reply to LoveYourSmile
@minzera The Holy Tom Cruise says if we thetans want to reunite with xenu, we gotta put the dollar in da boxa. Thanks god at least someone is honest on this sinful land.
@LoveYourSmile Makes sense, funny. |
Jun 2, 8:19 AM
#23
Reply to minzera
@LoveYourSmile Makes sense, funny.
@minzera Finally, a trustworthy source! I was starting to think real scientists went extinct on this forum - just like the so-called dinosaurs. |
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
Jun 2, 8:37 AM
#24
Reply to MelodyOfMemory
This question is framed in bad faith. For a real answer, some of us are female and know full well the men who air their lewdness in public tend to be those we don't want to meet in real life (obviously, it's possible to be horny and still respect women, but these men usually give away their misogyny quite readily).
@MelodyOfMemory 1)This question is asking why they don't want to ACT SEXUAL THEMSELVES. 2)It's also asking why they hate seeing sexual things in entertainment. It's not asking about sexual advances. It's about being scared of your own libido instead of celebrating sexiness. |
IpreferEcchiJun 2, 8:43 AM
Jun 2, 8:39 AM
#25
cool story bro... unfortunately it seems that nobody cares. |
Jun 2, 8:43 AM
#26
Well, those are kids. 2000? Like born in 2000? Bro, these people should go drink their mom's milk, and not use the internet. Like... how young even is that 2025 - 2000 = twenty fi... fuck, I am old. |
Jun 2, 10:57 AM
#27
Reply to MelodyOfMemory
This question is framed in bad faith. For a real answer, some of us are female and know full well the men who air their lewdness in public tend to be those we don't want to meet in real life (obviously, it's possible to be horny and still respect women, but these men usually give away their misogyny quite readily).
For a real answer, some of us are male and know full well the women who air their prudishness in public tend to be those we don't want to meet in real life (obviously, it's possible to be frigid and still respect men, but these women usually give away their misandry quite readily). |
No, this isn't my signature. |
Jun 2, 11:05 AM
#28
Because it isn't exciting, or new, or clever anymore to splash titties all over your TV screen. In the world of endless free online porn, we don't have to rely on endlessly rewinding topless scenes on our VCRs to get our jollies. When we want lewdness, there's porn. Nothing is wrong with a bit of sexiness in media, if it's done in good taste. Let's face it, in the world of anime it very rarely is. You're lucky if the characters are even legal to be aroused by. So, unblinded by horniness we see it for what it is: trashiness, cheap attempts to keep us watching. Usually at a detriment to the plot of the anime we all came to watch. |
Old is Gold "Look, look, we can do spinning shots without wasting our entire budget" "Did you see? Look, it's all smooth and everything !" "You're not looking, please, it's SO AWESOME LOOK AT HOW SPINNY IT IS!!!!" - All anime animators since the invention of CGI. |
Jun 2, 11:07 AM
#29
Ahp, I see two bandwagoners of the movement running about the thread hoping to derail it. |
Jun 2, 11:08 AM
#30
Reply to BritishBlitz87
Because it isn't exciting, or new, or clever anymore to splash titties all over your TV screen. In the world of endless free online porn, we don't have to rely on endlessly rewinding topless scenes on our VCRs to get our jollies. When we want lewdness, there's porn.
Nothing is wrong with a bit of sexiness in media, if it's done in good taste. Let's face it, in the world of anime it very rarely is. You're lucky if the characters are even legal to be aroused by.
So, unblinded by horniness we see it for what it is: trashiness, cheap attempts to keep us watching. Usually at a detriment to the plot of the anime we all came to watch.
Nothing is wrong with a bit of sexiness in media, if it's done in good taste. Let's face it, in the world of anime it very rarely is. You're lucky if the characters are even legal to be aroused by.
So, unblinded by horniness we see it for what it is: trashiness, cheap attempts to keep us watching. Usually at a detriment to the plot of the anime we all came to watch.
@BritishBlitz87 The alternative is ugly anime characters, like what the West is doing right now. Cuz you know, it is something brand new and exciting. |
Jun 2, 11:14 AM
#31
i don't get it either, the whole american prudish thing is stupid to me. Like you can have all the gore and violence you want but no tits. |
My waifu is the most wonderful waifu. Mai Valentine. We're freaking out that we're running out of time, but to do what? Should i stop and think of that? Is there something i could do to slow it down? Live in a day for once, instead of watch it sprinting by |
Jun 2, 11:14 AM
#32
Reply to minzera
@BritishBlitz87 The alternative is ugly anime characters, like what the West is doing right now. Cuz you know, it is something brand new and exciting.
@minzera Well that's just a fallacy. Kyoani works anyone? Hyouka? Because Eru Chitanda is still my anime crush to this day. Are you calling Kumiko, Reina and co ugly because they don't have massive bouncy animu tiddies? How very dare you. |
Old is Gold "Look, look, we can do spinning shots without wasting our entire budget" "Did you see? Look, it's all smooth and everything !" "You're not looking, please, it's SO AWESOME LOOK AT HOW SPINNY IT IS!!!!" - All anime animators since the invention of CGI. |
Jun 2, 11:20 AM
#33
Any examples? I have never encountered what you describe. |
Jun 2, 11:20 AM
#34
Reply to BritishBlitz87
@minzera
Well that's just a fallacy.
Kyoani works anyone? Hyouka? Because Eru Chitanda is still my anime crush to this day. Are you calling Kumiko, Reina and co ugly because they don't have massive bouncy animu tiddies? How very dare you.
Well that's just a fallacy.
Kyoani works anyone? Hyouka? Because Eru Chitanda is still my anime crush to this day. Are you calling Kumiko, Reina and co ugly because they don't have massive bouncy animu tiddies? How very dare you.
@BritishBlitz87 Now, don't put words into my mouth. KyoAni shows sell on sex appeal as well, moe is meant to appeal to men's paternal instincts. They are still cute girls and this is still fanservice. We do not only like super sexualized girls, many like simply cute girls (the entire lolicon subgenre exists because of that fact) and just because you treat it as proper does not change the fact that it still is there to appeal to a man's libido. |
Jun 2, 12:00 PM
#35
Reply to Zarutaku
For a real answer, some of us are male and know full well the women who air their prudishness in public tend to be those we don't want to meet in real life (obviously, it's possible to be frigid and still respect men, but these women usually give away their misandry quite readily).
@Zarutaku I'm only engaging because I respect you and hope you can understand why someone might post what Melody posted. Generally speaking, males don't have to be afraid of a female pervert, it's not so the other way around. I've said it before but the well is poisoned for well-intentioned perverts because of the actions of the dangerous kind of pervert. It's easier for a woman to throw the baby out with the bathwater than repeatedly have faith that you aren't dangerous, that you do see her as human. Are you really going to say you haven't seen some of the vile things men post on this very forum? Or do you just not see it that way because you're offended by the women reacting to it? Empathy is a two way street. I feel for those who have had their entire sexuality demonised because of the actions of bad people, but when @MelodyOfMemory says she doesn't want to meet these men in real life, it isn't because she's going to go "Ew!" and roll her eyes at them, it's because she likely feels like those men aren't safe to be around. Maybe you think that fear is stupid, but its hardwired into so many of us as a way to stay safe, because we've had or seen women and girls near to us have life-alternating (negative) experiences because we trusted the wrong man. Even just in posting this, it's likely I make a male reader angry, like the one who responded to an opinion in anime discussion (that had nothing to do with gender) the other day wishing violent things happen to the female poster. I can't post a screenshot of it, because it violates MAL rules, but that sort of thing happens frequently when you're female online. Especially if you're equally as outspoken as your male counterparts. It's difficult to talk about these things without dismissive language for most women, in part because it asks for a vulnerability we'll be mocked for, and because some men will be angry about it no matter what. You even felt the need to mock her post, even though she clarified that she believes you can be perverted and still respect women. If I were you, I'd have done what I almost always do seeing much worse from guys every day, I'd just keep scrolling. |
Another hero? Oh, please! You're a god-damn philistine. |
Jun 2, 12:05 PM
#36
Reply to Zarutaku
For a real answer, some of us are male and know full well the women who air their prudishness in public tend to be those we don't want to meet in real life (obviously, it's possible to be frigid and still respect men, but these women usually give away their misandry quite readily).
@Zarutaku Ah, the master debater strikes again. I have no choice but to bow to your superior intellectual prowess! But really, these things are not the same. So-called "prudish" women may be annoying to you, but women constantly have to worry about a guy turning out to be an abusive creep, and one of the tell-tale signs is a man who sees women purely as ogle bait. @CC Thank you! This is precisely what I was getting at. It's not like women don't enjoy sexy women either. The anxiety comes from when that's all a guy cares about from said women. |
Jun 2, 12:09 PM
#37
@CC it wasn't meant that seriously, I just inverted her sentence because I occasionally get too annoyed to ignore serious gender war posts, unfortunately I have seen her post them frequently. CC said: I have picked fights with them as well in the past, but I'm rarely in the mood for that in both cases.Are you really going to say you haven't seen some of the vile things men post on this very forum? Or do you just not see it that way because you're offended by the women reacting to it? CC said: Sure, but that's also the case the other way around, many men have serious trust issues because they had or heard of negative experiences like getting ditched after long term commitment, that usually leaves deep emotional scars, but when they express their frustration about this, they often aren't taken seriously or even accused of misogyny.we've had or seen women and girls near to us have life-alternating (negative) experiences because we trusted the wrong man. |
ZarutakuJun 2, 1:45 PM
No, this isn't my signature. |
Jun 2, 12:21 PM
#38
Back before 2009 accessing the Internet required sitting down in front of a desktop computer. This limited the pool of people you could talk to on the Internet severely. After everyone got smartphone in their pocket everyone can now access the Internet from nearly anywhere. So we now get voices of people we didn't hear before, since they didn't bother using the Internet before. It's not only the people born in the 2000s and later that now have a voice when they previously didn't. It's also all the people that weren't tech literate enough to use something that isn't a smartphone and the people that don't enjoy sitting in front of a desktop PC. |
Jun 2, 2:03 PM
#39
Maybe they are secretly lewd. XD They're just hiding it for some reason... |
I LICK POTATOES. O__O |
Jun 2, 6:18 PM
#40
Reply to CC
@Zarutaku I'm only engaging because I respect you and hope you can understand why someone might post what Melody posted.
Generally speaking, males don't have to be afraid of a female pervert, it's not so the other way around. I've said it before but the well is poisoned for well-intentioned perverts because of the actions of the dangerous kind of pervert. It's easier for a woman to throw the baby out with the bathwater than repeatedly have faith that you aren't dangerous, that you do see her as human. Are you really going to say you haven't seen some of the vile things men post on this very forum? Or do you just not see it that way because you're offended by the women reacting to it?
Empathy is a two way street. I feel for those who have had their entire sexuality demonised because of the actions of bad people, but when @MelodyOfMemory says she doesn't want to meet these men in real life, it isn't because she's going to go "Ew!" and roll her eyes at them, it's because she likely feels like those men aren't safe to be around. Maybe you think that fear is stupid, but its hardwired into so many of us as a way to stay safe, because we've had or seen women and girls near to us have life-alternating (negative) experiences because we trusted the wrong man.
Even just in posting this, it's likely I make a male reader angry, like the one who responded to an opinion in anime discussion (that had nothing to do with gender) the other day wishing violent things happen to the female poster. I can't post a screenshot of it, because it violates MAL rules, but that sort of thing happens frequently when you're female online. Especially if you're equally as outspoken as your male counterparts.
It's difficult to talk about these things without dismissive language for most women, in part because it asks for a vulnerability we'll be mocked for, and because some men will be angry about it no matter what. You even felt the need to mock her post, even though she clarified that she believes you can be perverted and still respect women. If I were you, I'd have done what I almost always do seeing much worse from guys every day, I'd just keep scrolling.
Generally speaking, males don't have to be afraid of a female pervert, it's not so the other way around. I've said it before but the well is poisoned for well-intentioned perverts because of the actions of the dangerous kind of pervert. It's easier for a woman to throw the baby out with the bathwater than repeatedly have faith that you aren't dangerous, that you do see her as human. Are you really going to say you haven't seen some of the vile things men post on this very forum? Or do you just not see it that way because you're offended by the women reacting to it?
Empathy is a two way street. I feel for those who have had their entire sexuality demonised because of the actions of bad people, but when @MelodyOfMemory says she doesn't want to meet these men in real life, it isn't because she's going to go "Ew!" and roll her eyes at them, it's because she likely feels like those men aren't safe to be around. Maybe you think that fear is stupid, but its hardwired into so many of us as a way to stay safe, because we've had or seen women and girls near to us have life-alternating (negative) experiences because we trusted the wrong man.
Even just in posting this, it's likely I make a male reader angry, like the one who responded to an opinion in anime discussion (that had nothing to do with gender) the other day wishing violent things happen to the female poster. I can't post a screenshot of it, because it violates MAL rules, but that sort of thing happens frequently when you're female online. Especially if you're equally as outspoken as your male counterparts.
It's difficult to talk about these things without dismissive language for most women, in part because it asks for a vulnerability we'll be mocked for, and because some men will be angry about it no matter what. You even felt the need to mock her post, even though she clarified that she believes you can be perverted and still respect women. If I were you, I'd have done what I almost always do seeing much worse from guys every day, I'd just keep scrolling.
CC said: I definitely don't blame women for being reserved around guys, granted it's not fun being seen as a predator or danger by society. It's not a social role I personally love. Empathy is a two way street. I feel for those who have had their entire sexuality demonised because of the actions of bad people, but when @MelodyOfMemory says she doesn't want to meet these men in real life, it isn't because she's going to go "Ew!" and roll her eyes at them, it's because she likely feels like those men aren't safe to be around. Maybe you think that fear is stupid, but its hardwired into so many of us as a way to stay safe, because we've had or seen women and girls near to us have life-alternating (negative) experiences because we trusted the wrong man. MelodyOfMemory said: While true, there isn't a lot of nuance in these discussions, that leads to pretty sex negative views, at least in some feminist spaces. I get objectification as a concept, and how going against it could be positive; however, I almost never see it applied to actual moral issues. Still even as someone that wants art to be unabashedly itself, without restriction, which includes sexy content, I won't lie that many people who also want that, seem to only care when it can cater to whatever fantasy they have. So-called "prudish" women may be annoying to you, but women constantly have to worry about a guy turning out to be an abusive creep, and one of the tell-tale signs is a man who sees women purely as ogle bait. |
Jun 3, 6:39 AM
#41
Reply to BritishBlitz87
Because it isn't exciting, or new, or clever anymore to splash titties all over your TV screen. In the world of endless free online porn, we don't have to rely on endlessly rewinding topless scenes on our VCRs to get our jollies. When we want lewdness, there's porn.
Nothing is wrong with a bit of sexiness in media, if it's done in good taste. Let's face it, in the world of anime it very rarely is. You're lucky if the characters are even legal to be aroused by.
So, unblinded by horniness we see it for what it is: trashiness, cheap attempts to keep us watching. Usually at a detriment to the plot of the anime we all came to watch.
Nothing is wrong with a bit of sexiness in media, if it's done in good taste. Let's face it, in the world of anime it very rarely is. You're lucky if the characters are even legal to be aroused by.
So, unblinded by horniness we see it for what it is: trashiness, cheap attempts to keep us watching. Usually at a detriment to the plot of the anime we all came to watch.
@BritishBlitz87 What if I told you some people want a comprehensive experience, instead of a separated one? |
No, this isn't my signature. |
Jun 3, 9:56 AM
#42
MelodyOfMemory said: women constantly have to worry about a guy turning out to be an abusive creep, and one of the tell-tale signs is a man who sees women purely as ogle bait. How do you even know how someone sees someone else? You would need to make assumptions based on a few things someone expresses, which is rarely the full picture, and there's a huge leap from ogling to abusing, same with open lewdness to hateful disrespect, trying to equate these is a terrible generalization. |
No, this isn't my signature. |
Jun 3, 12:34 PM
#43
Society does seem like it’s getting more and more prudish, and there’s a huge increase in content, language, and behavior being labeled as “problematic” nowadays. I’m guessing the cause of this is likely politics-related and/or social justice-related. |
Jun 3, 6:50 PM
#44
BilboBaggins365 said: I agree with everything you've said here! The sex negativity that you've mentioned is a problem, but I think it's overcompensation in response to an oversaturation of sex positivity (to the point that I think it's beyond just "positivity"). While true, there isn't a lot of nuance in these discussions, that leads to pretty sex negative views, at least in some feminist spaces. I get objectification as a concept, and how going against it could be positive; however, I almost never see it applied to actual moral issues. Still even as someone that wants art to be unabashedly itself, without restriction, which includes sexy content, I won't lie that many people who also want that, seem to only care when it can cater to whatever fantasy they have. This isn't limited to anime! The sexual revolution or "Free Love" movement happened in the 60s/70s, followed by the same sex negativity you see today in the 80s/90s. There's a few reasons for this, one of them being AIDS, but a lot of it was reactive from both the religious right and feminists. Some women felt that some men used sexual liberation as a way to pressure them into sex, "You don't want to be an uptight prude, do you?" Women were still shamed for their sexual choices, even if they did participate in non-monogamy and no strings attached sex. If they weren't comfortable, they were dismissed as too emotional, not liberated, etc. Much like the "sexual liberation" of today, some women felt that it disproportionately favoured men. There's a lot of literature about this, far too much for me to cover on the MAL forums, but I feel like it's just another example of history repeating itself. We need equilibrium, but humanity is bad at that. Please forgive the impromptu history blog. BilboBaggins365 said: I see a lot of this too, it reminds me of the first time I noticed it. When Free! came out, Twitter was a mess, an absolute mess. It was just one little anime, but you'd think the entire anime industry turned into shirtless anime men with no nipples at that exact moment. I won't lie that many people who also want that, seem to only care when it can cater to whatever fantasy they have. |
Another hero? Oh, please! You're a god-damn philistine. |
Jun 3, 6:55 PM
#45
Zarutaku said: You would need to make assumptions based on a few things someone expresses, Yes, this is how all animals operate. You only have so long to decide whether or not someone is a threat to you. Unfortunately, our brains aren't wired to perceive internet people as far away as they (often) are when it comes to instinct. Zarutaku said: Sure, but that's also the case the other way around, many men have serious trust issues because they had or heard of negative experiences like getting ditched after long term commitment, that usually leaves deep emotional scars, but when they express their frustration about this, they often aren't taken seriously or even accused of misogyny. No, men are accused of misogyny in these instances because when women talk about being dehumanised and the serious bodily harm that can sometimes come with it, every single time men show up and say something like "well sometimes we're emotionally injured too" using women's struggles as a springboard instead of allowing space for both conversations to exist separately. If every time one group tries to talk about something hurting them, and another tries to hijack the conversation, everyone is going to be upset. If you were trying to talk about, for example, male loneliness or that society doesn't adequately support or acknowledge the struggles of young men, and I showed up to be like "well what about how men keep sexually assaulting women" you'd probably think I'm a jerk who hates men too. It's cyclical, and you're better off not engaging. Sorry for the delay in responding, didn't see that you edited more into your post until now. If you're not offended by it I'd be happy to explain this point of view to you in private, as I believe this is getting into rule violating territory. Otherwise, this is the last I'll say. |
CCJun 3, 7:10 PM
Another hero? Oh, please! You're a god-damn philistine. |
Jun 3, 8:05 PM
#46
Reply to CC
BilboBaggins365 said:
While true, there isn't a lot of nuance in these discussions, that leads to pretty sex negative views, at least in some feminist spaces. I get objectification as a concept, and how going against it could be positive; however, I almost never see it applied to actual moral issues. Still even as someone that wants art to be unabashedly itself, without restriction, which includes sexy content, I won't lie that many people who also want that, seem to only care when it can cater to whatever fantasy they have.
I agree with everything you've said here! The sex negativity that you've mentioned is a problem, but I think it's overcompensation in response to an oversaturation of sex positivity (to the point that I think it's beyond just "positivity"). While true, there isn't a lot of nuance in these discussions, that leads to pretty sex negative views, at least in some feminist spaces. I get objectification as a concept, and how going against it could be positive; however, I almost never see it applied to actual moral issues. Still even as someone that wants art to be unabashedly itself, without restriction, which includes sexy content, I won't lie that many people who also want that, seem to only care when it can cater to whatever fantasy they have.
This isn't limited to anime! The sexual revolution or "Free Love" movement happened in the 60s/70s, followed by the same sex negativity you see today in the 80s/90s. There's a few reasons for this, one of them being AIDS, but a lot of it was reactive from both the religious right and feminists. Some women felt that some men used sexual liberation as a way to pressure them into sex, "You don't want to be an uptight prude, do you?" Women were still shamed for their sexual choices, even if they did participate in non-monogamy and no strings attached sex. If they weren't comfortable, they were dismissed as too emotional, not liberated, etc. Much like the "sexual liberation" of today, some women felt that it disproportionately favoured men.
There's a lot of literature about this, far too much for me to cover on the MAL forums, but I feel like it's just another example of history repeating itself. We need equilibrium, but humanity is bad at that. Please forgive the impromptu history blog.
BilboBaggins365 said:
I won't lie that many people who also want that, seem to only care when it can cater to whatever fantasy they have.
I see a lot of this too, it reminds me of the first time I noticed it. When Free! came out, Twitter was a mess, an absolute mess. It was just one little anime, but you'd think the entire anime industry turned into shirtless anime men with no nipples at that exact moment. I won't lie that many people who also want that, seem to only care when it can cater to whatever fantasy they have.
CC said: Won't deny that. Still again, what is the actual equilibrium? If you put 5 guys and 5 girls into a room, and asked them to figure that out, you probably would get a 100 different opinions. We need equilibrium, but humanity is bad at that. Personally, I approach the issue by asking "am I harming someone directly by doing x?" For instance, you could argue people viewing and supporting the porn industry is encouraging sketchy directors/studios taking advantage of sex actors. Though by drawing a female character, who basically is a pinup, am I doing anything morally wrong? I mean I am creating a sexual "object" of my own desire, which many feminists would say is wrong; however, again who has actually been harmed by this? If I treat women as human beings, does this matter? That's how I will continue to see things, and ultimately if people engaged in that approach, they would chart a better middle path, than some of the extremes we do see, which is just a product of our current polarized world. I don't like to assume people's views in bad faith, unless they really jump down that pit. CC said: I mean I am a bi guy, so I can't really empathize with how straight guys, or women feel about all of this. Granted, all that really looks appealing in Free is that hey it's another sports anime. People really should just ignore things that don't interest them. I see a lot of this too, it reminds me of the first time I noticed it. When Free! came out, Twitter was a mess, an absolute mess. It was just one little anime, but you'd think the entire anime industry turned into shirtless anime men with no nipples at that exact moment. |
Jun 3, 8:10 PM
#47
I think you should count people born in the late 90s too since they don't even remember the 90s lol. Besides, I've seen older people complaining too while I found a lot of proshippers younger than me or even around my age so I don't think its an old vs young thing. |
BANZAI NIPPON. Nippon is the Land of freedom. Nippon is the Land of Peace. Nippon is the Land of Justice and Prosperity. In Nippon, we trust. We love Nippon, we love Anime. Anime love us, Nippon love us. 日本 |
Jun 3, 9:53 PM
#48
Good the less the better. There is time and place for everything. @TheBlockernator It's about desensitization. Blood and gore is exaggerated in most media. Fights in cartoons are exaggerated. @ToumaTachibana Not true lol. The 90s didn't end until 2007 that's when the stuff from the 90s got fazed out. 90s was terrible political wise. |
Jun 3, 10:01 PM
#49
"Why do many people born in 2000s whine about lewdness or act ashamed of having body that gets turned on by things?" No, it’s more of an Asian cultural thing. The socially conservative environment makes people feel restricted, so they tend to see these things as shallow or inappropriate. |
𝒩𝑒𝑜-𝒱𝑒𝓃𝑒𝓏𝒾𝒶 𝒾𝓈𝓃’𝓉 𝒿𝓊𝓈𝓉 𝒶 𝓅𝓁𝒶𝒸𝑒~ 𝐼𝓉’𝓈 𝒶 𝒻𝑒𝑒𝓁𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝓎𝑜𝓊 𝒸𝒶𝓇𝓇𝓎 𝓌𝒾𝓉𝒽 𝓎𝑜𝓊 |
Jun 3, 10:07 PM
#50
CC said: @Zarutaku I'm only engaging because I respect you and hope you can understand why someone might post what Melody posted. Generally speaking, males don't have to be afraid of a female pervert, it's not so the other way around. I've said it before but the well is poisoned for well-intentioned perverts because of the actions of the dangerous kind of pervert. It's easier for a woman to throw the baby out with the bathwater than repeatedly have faith that you aren't dangerous, that you do see her as human. Are you really going to say you haven't seen some of the vile things men post on this very forum? Or do you just not see it that way because you're offended by the women reacting to it? Empathy is a two way street. I feel for those who have had their entire sexuality demonised because of the actions of bad people, but when @MelodyOfMemory says she doesn't want to meet these men in real life, it isn't because she's going to go "Ew!" and roll her eyes at them, it's because she likely feels like those men aren't safe to be around. Maybe you think that fear is stupid, but its hardwired into so many of us as a way to stay safe, because we've had or seen women and girls near to us have life-alternating (negative) experiences because we trusted the wrong man. Even just in posting this, it's likely I make a male reader angry, like the one who responded to an opinion in anime discussion (that had nothing to do with gender) the other day wishing violent things happen to the female poster. I can't post a screenshot of it, because it violates MAL rules, but that sort of thing happens frequently when you're female online. Especially if you're equally as outspoken as your male counterparts. It's difficult to talk about these things without dismissive language for most women, in part because it asks for a vulnerability we'll be mocked for, and because some men will be angry about it no matter what. You even felt the need to mock her post, even though she clarified that she believes you can be perverted and still respect women. If I were you, I'd have done what I almost always do seeing much worse from guys every day, I'd just keep scrolling. People on the internet cant physically hurt you unless you are particularly careless about your personal information and actively piss the wrong person off enough though slim odds there, or go meet up in a private secluded place alone without anyone knowing with someone that hasn't shown themselves trustworthy. Worst they could do in most cases is something psychological / emotional if they get personal about something left to public knowledge or said directly to them and girls can and do do this just as easily as guys. So the real danger is ignorance in how people overshare these days not being selective with who they entrust information with whether online or face to face. Being calmly vigilant and prepared is likely more constructive and healthy than being fearful or hateful which go hand in hand. Even people in person aren't that dangerous generally speaking. Most violent crimes are committed by close family and friends and acquaintances not usually random people in the street except in particularly poor countries. MelodyOfMemory said: But really, these things are not the same. So-called "prudish" women may be annoying to you, but women constantly have to worry about a guy turning out to be an abusive creep, and one of the tell-tale signs is a man who sees women purely as ogle bait. If you look at the data of domestic violence when it comes to more developed countries it's unclear and more pointing in the direction of equal victimization and perpetration by both sexes. Although women are more often portrayed as victims than perpetrators of domestic violence, recent studies report equal domestic violence victimization prevalence in men and women (de Vogel et al., 2016; Lysova et al., 2019). It is striking that even though a large part of the domestic violence perpetrators is female, not much is known about how female criminogenic risks differ from those of males, or which different criminogenic risk factors are associated with treatment dropout in females compared to males (de Vogel et al., 2014). https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9679567/ Although much available research indicates that intimate partner violence (IPV) is male perpetrated, growing recent evidence suggests a gender symmetry model of family violence. This article examines gender differences in IPV in current and prior relationships reported by young adults. Data comprised 2,060 young adults (62.1% females) who participated in the 30- year follow-up of the Mater Hospital and University of Queensland Study of Pregnancy (MUSP) in Brisbane, Australia. The Composite Abuse Scale was used to measure IPV during the last 12 months in the respondents’ most recent relationship. Similar proportions of males and females reported leaving their prior relationships. Both males and females who were not currently in a relationship reported experiencing much higher rates of IPV than those who were in a relationship. There were no differences in the past experience of IPV between males and females who were not currently in a relationship, but males in a current relationship reported they experienced most forms of IPV more often than did females. IPV typically involves both male and female perpetrators and victims. It does appear that the majority of relationships involving higher rates of IPV were dissolved. IPV was more likely to have occurred in relationships that ended than in relationships that persisted. Males more often remain in an abusive relationship and report experiencing higher rates of IPV in their current relationships compared with females. In more economically developed countries, men may be inhibited from using violence, especially physical violence, against women (Felson, Ackerman, & Yeon, 2003), although a degree of aggression by women toward male partners is tolerated (Simon et al., 2001; Sorenson & Taylor, 2005; Taylor & Sorenson, 2005). It is likely that representative or community samples produce results that differ from those observed from a selected sample based upon those in con- tact with the criminal justice system (Archer, 2000; Johnson, 1995). Similarly, details of IPV that are derived from official reports of women who are using a medical service may overrepresent severe and unidirectional male perpetration, whereas population sample surveys may identify IPV cases that are less severe and bidirectional. In a comprehensive review of 50 studies (Langhinrichsen-Rohling, Selwyn, & Rohling, 2012), mutual vio- lence was identified in half of the IPV cases, whereas male-only perpetrated violence comprised a quarter of all cases. In addition, mutually perpetrated violence was reported across all types of samples—either representative or selective—whereas only male–perpetrated violence was much more fre- quently observed in samples selected from those in contact with the criminal justice system. Estimates of gender differences in IPV may vary depending upon the degree of violence, as females are more likely to experience more severe injuries (Catalano, 2013). One important discrepancy in IPV estimates can be attributed to the diverse ways of measuring IPV. Some widely used measurements of IPV have been developed based on a particular theory or a selective aspect of IPV. For instance, the Abusive Behavior Inventory (Shepard & Campbell, 1992) is derived from, and consistent with, a feminist perspective about the nature of domestic violence and leads to arguably biased findings that family violence is exclusively male perpetrated. By contrast, the commonly used Conflict Tactics Scale (Straus, 1979) measures the act of violence rather than its con- sequences, which arguably produces findings suggesting an overrepresenta- tion of women as “violent.” In much of the available research on IPV, emotional, economic, and sexual abuse as well as gender-specific types of IPV may not be adequately represented (Archer, 2000; DeKeseredy, 2000; Ford-Gilboe et al., 2016; Kimmel, 2002). There is also a recent debate about how assessments of IPV, which refer to prior or current relationships, may affect gender-based conclusions (Ackerman, 2012). Ackerman suggests that women are more inclined than men to terminate In more economically developed countries, men may be inhibited from using violence, especially physical violence, against women (Felson, Ackerman, & Yeon, 2003), although a degree of aggression by women toward male partners is tolerated (Simon et al., 2001; Sorenson & Taylor, 2005; Taylor & Sorenson, 2005). It is likely that representative or community samples produce results that differ from those observed from a selected sample based upon those in con- tact with the criminal justice system (Archer, 2000; Johnson, 1995). Similarly, details of IPV that are derived from official reports of women who are using a medical service may overrepresent severe and unidirectional male perpetration, whereas population sample surveys may identify IPV cases that are less severe and bidirectional. In a comprehensive review of 50 studies (Langhinrichsen-Rohling, Selwyn, & Rohling, 2012), mutual vio- lence was identified in half of the IPV cases, whereas male-only perpetrated violence comprised a quarter of all cases. In addition, mutually perpetrated violence was reported across all types of samples—either representative or selective—whereas only male–perpetrated violence was much more fre- quently observed in samples selected from those in contact with the criminal justice system. Estimates of gender differences in IPV may vary depending upon the degree of violence, as females are more likely to experience more severe injuries (Catalano, 2013). One important discrepancy in IPV estimates can be attributed to the diverse ways of measuring IPV. Some widely used measurements of IPV have been developed based on a particular theory or a selective aspect of IPV. For instance, the Abusive Behavior Inventory (Shepard & Campbell, 1992) is derived from, and consistent with, a feminist perspective about the nature of domestic violence and leads to arguably biased findings that family violence is exclusively male perpetrated. By contrast, the commonly used Conflict Tactics Scale (Straus, 1979) measures the act of violence rather than its con- sequences, which arguably produces findings suggesting an overrepresenta- tion of women as “violent.” In much of the available research on IPV, emotional, economic, and sexual abuse as well as gender-specific types of IPV may not be adequately represented (Archer, 2000; DeKeseredy, 2000; Ford-Gilboe et al., 2016; Kimmel, 2002). There is also a recent debate about how assessments of IPV, which refer to prior or current relationships, may affect gender-based conclusions (Ackerman, 2012). Ackerman suggests that women are more inclined than men to terminate In more economically developed countries, men may be inhibited from using violence, especially physical violence, against women (Felson, Ackerman, & Yeon, 2003), although a degree of aggression by women toward male partners is tolerated (Simon et al., 2001; Sorenson & Taylor, 2005; Taylor & Sorenson, 2005). It is likely that representative or community samples produce results that differ from those observed from a selected sample based upon those in con- tact with the criminal justice system (Archer, 2000; Johnson, 1995). Similarly, details of IPV that are derived from official reports of women who are using a medical service may overrepresent severe and unidirectional male perpetration, whereas population sample surveys may identify IPV cases that are less severe and bidirectional. In a comprehensive review of 50 studies (Langhinrichsen-Rohling, Selwyn, & Rohling, 2012), mutual vio- lence was identified in half of the IPV cases, whereas male-only perpetrated violence comprised a quarter of all cases. In addition, mutually perpetrated violence was reported across all types of samples—either representative or selective—whereas only male–perpetrated violence was much more fre- quently observed in samples selected from those in contact with the criminal justice system. Estimates of gender differences in IPV may vary depending upon the degree of violence, as females are more likely to experience more severe injuries (Catalano, 2013). One important discrepancy in IPV estimates can be attributed to the diverse ways of measuring IPV. Some widely used measurements of IPV have been developed based on a particular theory or a selective aspect of IPV. For instance, the Abusive Behavior Inventory (Shepard & Campbell, 1992) is derived from, and consistent with, a feminist perspective about the nature of domestic violence and leads to arguably biased findings that family violence is exclusively male perpetrated. By contrast, the commonly used Conflict Tactics Scale (Straus, 1979) measures the act of violence rather than its con- sequences, which arguably produces findings suggesting an overrepresenta- tion of women as “violent.” In much of the available research on IPV, emotional, economic, and sexual abuse as well as gender-specific types of IPV may not be adequately represented (Archer, 2000; DeKeseredy, 2000; Ford-Gilboe et al., 2016; Kimmel, 2002). There is also a recent debate about how assessments of IPV, which refer to prior or current relationships, may affect gender-based conclusions (Ackerman, 2012). Ackerman suggests that women are more inclined than men to terminate abusive relationships and may more frequently report violence in a previous (but not current) relationship. A focus on IPV in a current relationship (characteristics of gender symmetry studies) may ignore “gendered differences” and asymmetric consequences of IPV such as injuries or fear. Restricting the sam- pling frame to a current relationship may also lead to overrepresentation of male victimization and underestimation of male perpetration (Ackerman, 2012; Currie, 1998). Ackerman’s findings that females often disproportionately leave an abusive relationship have not been replicated by other studies (Ackerman, 2012; Anderson, 1997, 2005, 2007; Choice & Lamke, 1997). Anderson (2007) argues that the interplay between internal (e.g., depression, low self-esteem, sense of control) and external barriers (e.g., economic dependency, social expectations of a mother to remain for the sake of children) constrain women from leaving an abusive partner. There is a need to know whether males or females are more likely to terminate an abusive relationship. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29294920/ As for making judgments that really depends what it is as to whether it even makes sense going by for example some shirt they have or some media they consume or something won't tell you anything meaningful that seeing how they act toward others in an aggressive or controlling manner would tell you, and even that you can only judge who they seem in the moment not as a whole person due to not knowing if there is other circumstances behind something. |
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