Why did you like/dislike the ending of Attack on Titan?

ktg said:
@CipherKen I address this separately, because you are not lying, so I can keep this thread clean.


I had a previous comment where I explained this, here's the quote:



That's correct, but previously he was portrayed as a smart, cautious man. So accepted Eren's ideas, or I assume Eren proposed them and not Zeke, was a stupid thing to do.
He should have forced a contact when he met Eren in Marley, so in case Eren was "truly" bad, not brainwashed and Zeke couldn't control the founding titan, he had a chance to stop him because his "allies" were in Marley.


Yes, I understood, my point is that even if at that point technologically they are on the same level as the Paradis Island, they will still advance faster, so there's no "real peace", because it takes a year and they are already ahead again, theoretically.
So there's no way to have 2 civilization with the same amount of resources, knowledge and technology.

Also, as far as I know, the 20% that Eren left behind is still significantly more than what Paradis' population was, at least based on the estimations. Like on Paradis we have couple million people at best, while on the whole planet hundred millions. So a conservative estimation would be that 500 million people lived on the whole planet and 20% of that is 100 million. Compared to Paradis' couple millions, that's a huge difference.
Like if they wanted to punish Paradis Island, they could have. They even lost their walls, so they had no chance to defend themselves.

Irshiki said:
You're the only one stating that a mental journey is a time traveler. So, even before Eren, the Owl did a time travel. Something that can be explained by their power, looking into other users memories, become time travel.

Irshiki said:
Something so easy, people able to look at each other and interact because they have the same power to look into users memories become time travel.

Irshiki said:
What about this, when you remember what you ate yesterday, is that time travel too? When you ask your friends what they did yesterday, is that time travel too?

Irshiki said:
Fixed timeline doesn't mean everything go according to Eren. Fixed timeline mean that there are no changes in the past.

Irshiki said:
Eren perverting Grisha has always happend, it's not something that happening as the first time when you see it during the story, it already happend, that's what fixed timeline means.

Irshiki said:
And yes, your point was trying to convince me that Eren changed anything since you've tried to use this to prove me wrong.

DigitalParadox said:
I feel if the other guy was less defensive and had attempted to explain as eloquently as yourself, we probably also would have been in agreement.

ktg said:

That does not explain how different users manipulated each other.
Someone showed Owl a memory about Grisha that made him say that "if you don't have a family, then you will repeat the same cycle" or something like that. So we can clearly see that your interpretation DOES NOT WORK.


That's time travel by definition. Your interaction with that other person is not a memory. That's something that you actively "create".


Well, if I can have a conversation with my past self and my past self can lie about what I ate, then yes, because that lie is not a memory. It's the opposite actually, that lie blocks me to access my real memories.
So when someone told Owl that Grisha had to have a family inside the wall, otherwise history would repeat itself, then someone lied about future memories.
In fixed timeline you don't have alternative futures, so no matter what Grisha would have done, there's no memory of the future where he does no have kids inside the wall AND history repeats itself.


Incorrect, it means that there's no change in past AND FUTURE EVENTS. You can think differently, you can change someone's thinking, but the events are the same.


Omg, either you can't read or you are too lazy to open a fkn link. No, that's not what it means.
Fixed timeline means that the events do not change. So even if Eren didn't manipulate Grisha, Grisha would have made the same decision. And that's what happened, that's how in fixed timeline no matter what you do, the outcome would be the same. So Eren's manipulation was pointless.

(Also, your phrasing is pretty bad here. You cannot describe accurate what you want. I can only guess it because your statement is so stupid.)


So you can't read. Thanks for answering my question.
No, I've never said or implied that Eren changed anything.

To prove that this is time travel I've only used what Owl said to Grisha and what the implications are in that case. Because Owl mentioned that what would happen if Grisha didn't have kids, it implies that someone showed him a "memory" where Grisha doesn't have kids and what would happen, but in fixed timeline that's impossible, because there are no alternative timeline where Grisha doesn't have kids. So someone actively manipulated Owl, instead of letting Owl see that person's memories.

The clues that Isayama hinted pre-timeskip, all points to a dynamic timeline, while the rules or reveal post-timeskip clearly implies that this is a fixed timeline. That's why the time travel also introduces plot holes.