Attack on Titan
| TLDR: Most of it is a rant about how I feel about aot and why the hate for the ending makes no sense to me. The main question is the bold giant text at the end if you don't want to read the whole thing. Attack on titan s1-3 while not my favourite thing ever, (although with me being newer to anime it was pretty up there) It was to me absolutely amazing. In s1 in particular, the characters and story were a bit too simplistic for me to call the show anything more than "very good". but then with season 2 and 3, the show actually got developments, that made the plot and characters far more interesting than they were ever before. S4p1 continued that trend, but the rushed release and studio change massively affected it's production quality. S3 was a small drop for that same reason, but the drop of to s4p1 was drastic. It was around here when the manga ended, and the hate for the ending was almost unanimous. I did not believe them. because up to s4p1's end, AOT Had 0 major blunders. It felt like fully planned out story, and all the pieces fell together seamlessly, how can a show with one of the strongest examples having the entire thing planned out from the start, fail at the ending? That's absolute nonsense. But then.... In S4p2, after the rumbling.... everything changed. the plot was suddenly directionless. The rumbling had just happened yet we spend an entire episode on Conny stealing some kid to feed his mother, the entire cast decides to fight/save Eren, even though as far as they knew, it would be impossible. Eren could have taken away their power anytime he wanted. Yet the cast was more than willing to kill their comrades even though it visibly hurt them, for something that would be logically impossible. That.... scared me. I thought, how could the show possibly start messing up NOW? had isayama only planned the story up to the rumbling? and for around a year, that was what I believd. but then.... The first special happened, and with eren announcing that they are "free" to stop him, my main problem was solved.... in a way that still didn't fix s4p2 but at least it wouldn't be a problem going forward. My hopes were still low though, the internet had convinced me that the ending is the worst thing ever, and after the obvious blunder of s4p2 I kinda believed them. I was also partly spoiled with my only context being "mikasa cuts off Erens head and kisses it". SO.... YOU SONS OF GUNS ALL LIED TO ME!!!! Can one of you help me understand what the fuck was so wrong with the ending, that one of the most overpraised pieces of great fiction was getting so much undeserved hate? I looked around to understand it, and the complaints included shit like: "Eren killing 80% of the population was bad and not justified" No shit sherlock, did you figure it out on your own. What makes you think Eren was suppose to be the HERO of the story? The show never hides how he massacred so many people nor does it say what he did was "right". His friends, lover, and the yeagerists support him to some degree, but like fucking OBVIOUSLY!!! What is wrong with the main character not being morally perfect? If you're about to say that's not it, then it's probably reason 2, which is somehow 100 times dumber than the already stupid reason 1. 2. Because giga chad eren is now a beta male who cries and bitches about his girl getting with another man. and to that I say go get help. If you measure the quality of writing by the chadness of the characters, go watch baki. not that baki is bad or anything, but genuinely go watch baki, it will probably become your all time favourite show. But no genuinely I want to understand, What is wrong with the ending? It's complete, it's satisfying, it makes sense, it completes the themes, Hell it even gives mikasa who I thought was one of the blandest characters in the show a satisfying conclusion to her arc, which makes her more interesting. so genuinely, what was so bad about the ending that even the simps who sucked off this show like it was sausage eating contest hated it? |
APolygons2Nov 5, 2023 4:06 PM
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Reply to RandomPerson9348
You must understand that a lot of viewers/readers are 14-17 year olds who think that violence and dark themes are cool. For a lot of people, just that was enough to get angry about a relatively happy ending.
Others were very angry because the manga condensed most of the Eren/Armin conversation and it was hard to read all the subtext in it for a lot of people. They made it abundantly more clear in the anime because they didn't have time/page constraints.
And some just had a pre-built idea of the end that they wanted to see. I've seen and argued against people who literally thought that the twist of Eren indirectly killing his own mother was bad. They didn't even want that character development/didn't even understand such a simple twist.
Thanks for this thread though. I have spent the last two years fighting the manga readers who hated the ending. Seeing so many people love it warms my heart. Isayama worked hard to make Eren one of the greatest protagonists of all time, and his work feels like it's finally paid off.
Others were very angry because the manga condensed most of the Eren/Armin conversation and it was hard to read all the subtext in it for a lot of people. They made it abundantly more clear in the anime because they didn't have time/page constraints.
And some just had a pre-built idea of the end that they wanted to see. I've seen and argued against people who literally thought that the twist of Eren indirectly killing his own mother was bad. They didn't even want that character development/didn't even understand such a simple twist.
Thanks for this thread though. I have spent the last two years fighting the manga readers who hated the ending. Seeing so many people love it warms my heart. Isayama worked hard to make Eren one of the greatest protagonists of all time, and his work feels like it's finally paid off.
RandomPerson9348 said: And some just had a pre-built idea of the end that they wanted to see. I've seen and argued against people who literally thought that the twist of Eren indirectly killing his own mother was bad. They didn't even want that character development/didn't even understand such a simple twist. THAT WASN'T EVEN A TWIST THOUGH!! Like, We saw Eren manipulate the past in memories of the future, we knew he could have changed the past, and we knew he started the whole thing which then indirectly or even directly resulted in half the horrible shit that happened in the story. and we already knew The attack titan's power was seeing the future, which eren we once again knew, was following. I though eren regretting his mother's death was moment of having some regrets and actions that eat at him, similar to his conversation with the young boy in s4p3p1. I didn't even register it as a twist. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
Reply to AndrwsAnimeList
i liked it except the part aftwr where the kid finds the tree
the part where it shows that in future humans still fight even if titan powers are no longer is to show that humans no matter what will always find a way to fight for some reason or another but the kid finding the tree.. put me off so mich aot was amazing i loved every part of it but seeing how this kid can bring back titan powers just beacuse when eren did all that sound silly to me
the part where it shows that in future humans still fight even if titan powers are no longer is to show that humans no matter what will always find a way to fight for some reason or another but the kid finding the tree.. put me off so mich aot was amazing i loved every part of it but seeing how this kid can bring back titan powers just beacuse when eren did all that sound silly to me
| @AndrwsAnimeList I mean, that was only implied, for all we knew the tree could be empty. There is no proof that the titans can come back, so if you don't like that, just imagine it's not the case. There is no proof of you being wrong. |
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Reply to Chisa_ki
It just ruins characters and makes the previous actions all for nothing. I’m not asking for a happy ending but it’s rushed and makes the story building crumble at the end. Can’t possibly tell me it was good in any regard
| @Chisa_ki Explain what action was for nothing, and how was any of the characters ruined. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
| Some people unironically argue, that murdering 80% (or even everyone) of the world is NOT wrong just because mommy died and would rather see Eren being a shallow, one dimensional villain. That is the problem. |
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Reply to Pieromysl
Some people unironically argue, that murdering 80% (or even everyone) of the world is NOT wrong just because mommy died and would rather see Eren being a shallow, one dimensional villain. That is the problem.
| @Piromysl but that's crazy "mainstream" anime fans who eat raw brick for breakfast. It's not really the show's fault. The story doesn't say killing 80% of people is not wrong. In fact, it goes out of it's way to just show how wrong it is multiple times. If people don't see that, it's them being dumbasses. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
APolygons2 said: @Piromysl but that's crazy "mainstream" anime fans who eat raw brick for breakfast. It's not really the show's fault. The story doesn't say killing 80% of people is not wrong. In fact, it goes out of it's way to just show how wrong it is multiple times. If people don't see that, it's them being dumbasses. As I said, the "bad ending" is just watchers being disappointed that characters did not acted the way they wanted, which is quite common for people who are unable to feel empathy or relate to others due to never facing any hardship and living in privilege. They wanted Eren to murder everyone, while his true goal was just to make Paradians a heroes, who will stop him and world will spare them. Overall, I think that AOT is a perfect example how people are prone to manipulation and propaganda. Some people unironically see nothing wrong with global genocide just because they have seen one side of the story, became emotionally attached to Eren and hate everyone who wronged him. But Gabi is receiving full hate for being basically just like Eren at the start of the story and killing fan favourite comic relief character. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ending. As you said, it's conclusive and satisfying. People are just idiots. Honesty, when I saw this outrage two years ago, I was expecting something like aliens invading out of nowhere, Eren turning into a spaceship, Mikasa piloting him and them going together to destroy alien homeworld. |
PieromyslNov 5, 2023 4:45 PM
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Reply to seratNA
Quite literally the only part I "disliked" about the ending was that Jean ended up with Mikasa. They never even showed the slightest bit of romantic interest in any way or at any point in time. I'm with Eren on his speech with Armin, regardless on how selfish it is it should have been him or nobody.
| @seratNA There is no proof to this claim |
RandomPerson9348 said: Piromysl said: As I said, the "bad ending" is just watchers being disappointed that characters did not acted the way they wanted, which is quite common for people who are unable to feel empathy or relate to others due to never facing any hardship and living in privilege. They wanted Eren to murder everyone, while his true goal was just to make Paradians a heroes, who will stop him and world will spare them. Overall, I think that AOT is a perfect example how people are prone to manipulation and propaganda. Some people unironically see nothing wrong with global genocide just because they have seen one side of the story, became emotionally attached to Eren and hate everyone who wronged him. But Gabi is receiving full hate for being basically just like Eren at the start of the story and killing fan favourite comic relief character. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ending. As you said, it's conclusive and satisfying. People are just idiots. Honesty, when I saw this outrage two years ago, I was expecting something like aliens invading out of nowhere, Eren turning into a spaceship, Mikasa piloting him and them going together to destroy alien homeworld. Idk man, I'd totally see Eren turning into a spaceship, have Mikasa pilot him and Armin read the star map to give them enemy positions. 100/10 ending. I wish I was high enough to make this shit up by myself, but nah. Some people at TRIGGER actually did it. |
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Reply to dxtremecaliber
RandomPerson9348 said:
You must understand that a lot of viewers/readers are 14-17 year olds who think that violence and dark themes are cool. For a lot of people, just that was enough to get angry about a relatively happy ending.
Others were very angry because the manga condensed most of the Eren/Armin conversation and it was hard to read all the subtext in it for a lot of people. They made it abundantly more clear in the anime because they didn't have time/page constraints.
And some just had a pre-built idea of the end that they wanted to see. I've seen and argued against people who literally thought that the twist of Eren indirectly killing his own mother was bad. They didn't even want that character development/didn't even understand such a simple twist.
Thanks for this thread though. I have spent the last two years fighting the manga readers who hated the ending. Seeing so many people love it warms my heart. Isayama worked hard to make Eren one of the greatest protagonists of all time, and his work feels like it's finally paid off.
You must understand that a lot of viewers/readers are 14-17 year olds who think that violence and dark themes are cool. For a lot of people, just that was enough to get angry about a relatively happy ending.
Others were very angry because the manga condensed most of the Eren/Armin conversation and it was hard to read all the subtext in it for a lot of people. They made it abundantly more clear in the anime because they didn't have time/page constraints.
And some just had a pre-built idea of the end that they wanted to see. I've seen and argued against people who literally thought that the twist of Eren indirectly killing his own mother was bad. They didn't even want that character development/didn't even understand such a simple twist.
Thanks for this thread though. I have spent the last two years fighting the manga readers who hated the ending. Seeing so many people love it warms my heart. Isayama worked hard to make Eren one of the greatest protagonists of all time, and his work feels like it's finally paid off.
Again its not about being an edgy reader its about its inconsistency it didnt achived what the characters what needed to do in fact all of their hardships are wasted its not a good ending man people just like myself would want an happy ending too if it was excuted correctly so its not about wanting happy or tragic ending its all about making sense even Eren said it in the end "because i am an IDIOT" yes because Isayama didnt know what hes doing in the end they even changed Eren’s character and pleased the shippers the anime made the ending better tho but by no means its a good ending
just watch this amazing 2hour analysis on why the ending is too flawed https://youtu.be/Hr44dBCWcHY
| @dxtremecaliber What is the inconsistancy? what is exactly wrong here? eren was always simple minded. what is the controdiction here? |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
| I'll give my opinions on why I thought the ending was bad, but if you check the score I gave it, it's 7. Here's why: First thing, the ending isn't all bad. I was enjoying it, even though it wasn't my favorite part of the series (being everything from Kenny to the beginning of the rumble). Up to the point where they're fighting Eren, it's a solid 8/10. When Armin has the vision with Eren, I begun thinking it was bad for a few reasons. Trying to make the viewer feel sorry for Eren at a point in the story where he has killed 80% of humanity doesn't work. It's obvious he wasn't all evil before the rumbling, but after season 3's ending, Isayama did quite a good job building Eren up to be an antagonist that has "good reasons" but does bad things because he think he's justified. That's good, that's great. Then, right at the ending, Eren starts crying like "ooohhhh i didnt want to do it 😭😭😭 i saw every future but it always ended on war so i thought that killing 80% of humanity was good so i could make you guys the heroes and then have you kill me like get me off of here man i dont want to deal with this anymore im just dumb lmao also sorry for killing you guys 😭😭😭". Like... what? That's such a bad turn of events at the worst possible time it's just funny. Even worse, the characters act like Eren wasn't all bad he just didn't know what to do. Like he was a tiny bit justified. For Mikasa, this works, she was alredy crazy for him, that's understandable. For Armin? Not so much, but ok, I can make that stretch. Now, for all the rest? Jean? Connie? FUCKING LEVI? Levi quite literally saw Erwin die because of Eren, then saw Hange die because of Eren, and he was like "ok maybe he wasn't that bad, he's just stupid...". I mean, what the fuck? The rushed "development" or "reason explaining" Eren does at the end was what made me dislike the thing at the end. It's not natural, it isn't good, it's hilariously bad. It's like Isayama thought he couldn't just make Eren a complex character by making he go the deep end and become a genocidal maniac so he made Eren feel bad for what he did but he had no choice to do otherwise. This is another problem. Eren said he gave up because he tried countless futures and none worked. Ok, understandable, that's human nature and war's hardly going anywhere anytime soon. So why didn't Eren ask for Hange's help? Or Armin's? Or for anyone's help? You telling me he's all good telling his powers to Floch so he can kill 80% of humanity, but talking to his friends about his future seeing powers is a no go? Like wtf. It doesn't make any sense. Another reason the ending was bad was the scene where Eren told he killed his mother because otherwise Bertolt would die. That was just funny. Out of nowhere and for no reason at all besides making the reader be like poor Eren he was """"forced""""" to kill his mom :( Besides that? The ending was good. Eren loyalists still exist, people hate eldians because of Eren, but Armin and our bros will still try to make peace a thing. And Mikasa became a celibate because no Eren for her anymore. Anything that had to do with Eren and his motives and the characters trying to make it even slightly ok was bad. That's what I thought of it, basically. |
| I already made a thread about anime improved the ending but the things is I didn't hated the ending. I still think there're some problem after 2nd half of s4p2 (it's mostly me problem) but the biggest problem is manga failed to show Eren character meaningfully (or I'm just blind idk). Conversation between Eren and Armin is shorter and I would say quite a shit still, (and I still stand by it, but only a little bit) I was going back and forward on do I like the ending or not and anime finally put me into, "yea it's good" group. |
Reply to theMario3721
I'll give my opinions on why I thought the ending was bad, but if you check the score I gave it, it's 7. Here's why:
First thing, the ending isn't all bad. I was enjoying it, even though it wasn't my favorite part of the series (being everything from Kenny to the beginning of the rumble). Up to the point where they're fighting Eren, it's a solid 8/10. When Armin has the vision with Eren, I begun thinking it was bad for a few reasons.
Trying to make the viewer feel sorry for Eren at a point in the story where he has killed 80% of humanity doesn't work. It's obvious he wasn't all evil before the rumbling, but after season 3's ending, Isayama did quite a good job building Eren up to be an antagonist that has "good reasons" but does bad things because he think he's justified. That's good, that's great. Then, right at the ending, Eren starts crying like "ooohhhh i didnt want to do it 😭😭😭 i saw every future but it always ended on war so i thought that killing 80% of humanity was good so i could make you guys the heroes and then have you kill me like get me off of here man i dont want to deal with this anymore im just dumb lmao also sorry for killing you guys 😭😭😭".
Like... what? That's such a bad turn of events at the worst possible time it's just funny. Even worse, the characters act like Eren wasn't all bad he just didn't know what to do. Like he was a tiny bit justified. For Mikasa, this works, she was alredy crazy for him, that's understandable. For Armin? Not so much, but ok, I can make that stretch. Now, for all the rest? Jean? Connie? FUCKING LEVI? Levi quite literally saw Erwin die because of Eren, then saw Hange die because of Eren, and he was like "ok maybe he wasn't that bad, he's just stupid...". I mean, what the fuck?
The rushed "development" or "reason explaining" Eren does at the end was what made me dislike the thing at the end. It's not natural, it isn't good, it's hilariously bad. It's like Isayama thought he couldn't just make Eren a complex character by making he go the deep end and become a genocidal maniac so he made Eren feel bad for what he did but he had no choice to do otherwise. This is another problem.
Eren said he gave up because he tried countless futures and none worked. Ok, understandable, that's human nature and war's hardly going anywhere anytime soon. So why didn't Eren ask for Hange's help? Or Armin's? Or for anyone's help? You telling me he's all good telling his powers to Floch so he can kill 80% of humanity, but talking to his friends about his future seeing powers is a no go? Like wtf. It doesn't make any sense.
Another reason the ending was bad was the scene where Eren told he killed his mother because otherwise Bertolt would die. That was just funny. Out of nowhere and for no reason at all besides making the reader be like poor Eren he was """"forced""""" to kill his mom :(
Besides that? The ending was good. Eren loyalists still exist, people hate eldians because of Eren, but Armin and our bros will still try to make peace a thing. And Mikasa became a celibate because no Eren for her anymore. Anything that had to do with Eren and his motives and the characters trying to make it even slightly ok was bad.
That's what I thought of it, basically.
First thing, the ending isn't all bad. I was enjoying it, even though it wasn't my favorite part of the series (being everything from Kenny to the beginning of the rumble). Up to the point where they're fighting Eren, it's a solid 8/10. When Armin has the vision with Eren, I begun thinking it was bad for a few reasons.
Trying to make the viewer feel sorry for Eren at a point in the story where he has killed 80% of humanity doesn't work. It's obvious he wasn't all evil before the rumbling, but after season 3's ending, Isayama did quite a good job building Eren up to be an antagonist that has "good reasons" but does bad things because he think he's justified. That's good, that's great. Then, right at the ending, Eren starts crying like "ooohhhh i didnt want to do it 😭😭😭 i saw every future but it always ended on war so i thought that killing 80% of humanity was good so i could make you guys the heroes and then have you kill me like get me off of here man i dont want to deal with this anymore im just dumb lmao also sorry for killing you guys 😭😭😭".
Like... what? That's such a bad turn of events at the worst possible time it's just funny. Even worse, the characters act like Eren wasn't all bad he just didn't know what to do. Like he was a tiny bit justified. For Mikasa, this works, she was alredy crazy for him, that's understandable. For Armin? Not so much, but ok, I can make that stretch. Now, for all the rest? Jean? Connie? FUCKING LEVI? Levi quite literally saw Erwin die because of Eren, then saw Hange die because of Eren, and he was like "ok maybe he wasn't that bad, he's just stupid...". I mean, what the fuck?
The rushed "development" or "reason explaining" Eren does at the end was what made me dislike the thing at the end. It's not natural, it isn't good, it's hilariously bad. It's like Isayama thought he couldn't just make Eren a complex character by making he go the deep end and become a genocidal maniac so he made Eren feel bad for what he did but he had no choice to do otherwise. This is another problem.
Eren said he gave up because he tried countless futures and none worked. Ok, understandable, that's human nature and war's hardly going anywhere anytime soon. So why didn't Eren ask for Hange's help? Or Armin's? Or for anyone's help? You telling me he's all good telling his powers to Floch so he can kill 80% of humanity, but talking to his friends about his future seeing powers is a no go? Like wtf. It doesn't make any sense.
Another reason the ending was bad was the scene where Eren told he killed his mother because otherwise Bertolt would die. That was just funny. Out of nowhere and for no reason at all besides making the reader be like poor Eren he was """"forced""""" to kill his mom :(
Besides that? The ending was good. Eren loyalists still exist, people hate eldians because of Eren, but Armin and our bros will still try to make peace a thing. And Mikasa became a celibate because no Eren for her anymore. Anything that had to do with Eren and his motives and the characters trying to make it even slightly ok was bad.
That's what I thought of it, basically.
theMario3721 said: Trying to make the viewer feel sorry for Eren at a point in the story where he has killed 80% of humanity doesn't work. It's obvious he wasn't all evil before the rumbling, but after season 3's ending, Isayama did quite a good job building Eren up to be an antagonist that has "good reasons" but does bad things because he think he's justified. That's good, that's great. Then, right at the ending, Eren starts crying like "ooohhhh i didnt want to do it 😭😭😭 i saw every future but it always ended on war so i thought that killing 80% of humanity was good so i could make you guys the heroes and then have you kill me like get me off of here man i dont want to deal with this anymore im just dumb lmao also sorry for killing you guys 😭😭😭". Like... what? That's such a bad turn of events at the worst possible time it's just funny. Even worse, the characters act like Eren wasn't all bad he just didn't know what to do. Like he was a tiny bit justified. For Mikasa, this works, she was alredy crazy for him, that's understandable. For Armin? Not so much, but ok, I can make that stretch. Now, for all the rest? Jean? Connie? FUCKING LEVI? Levi quite literally saw Erwin die because of Eren, then saw Hange die because of Eren, and he was like "ok maybe he wasn't that bad, he's just stupid...". I mean, what the fuck? Eren is actually one character that never even changed. Eren always was an idiot who happened to get too much power in his hands. He only pretended to be this cold, calculating menace, and he had every single one of us fooled. Memories of the future went ahead and showed that he never changed his goal, and the ending showed that he never changed at all. he is still and idiot with a single track mind, who went ahead and killed 80% of the population because it helped him reach his goal. but eren is not an emotionless monster, he never was, even in s4p1 where we all believed he was as cold as ice, there were still scenes where him being affected by the damage he caused slipped through. his face after sasha died was probably the biggest slip through we got. besides that, none of the characters in our cast ever agreed with what Eren did. It was more of an understanding that, He did something horrible, but he did it for us, and we can't hate him for it. For levi it wasn't even that, he did not have a single line saying anything positive about what eren did. so I really would like to know where is this: theMario3721 said: he was like "ok maybe he wasn't that bad, he's just stupid...". that you speak of. cause I don't remember him saying anything like that, and I watched the episode today. theMario3721 said: Another reason the ending was bad was the scene where Eren told he killed his mother because otherwise Bertolt would die. That was just funny. Out of nowhere and for no reason at all besides making the reader be like poor Eren he was """"forced""""" to kill his mom :( what? no You remember how in memories of the future Eren stepped in to encourage his father to kill historia's family? That's the gist of what that line is. having access to the past and all that he could do something that would save his mother, but the attack on paradise had to happen. Eren didn't kill his mom. He just didn't do anything to stop it. I'll be it the time travel aspect of aot is basic, and functions on a "if the past is changed, you would have already seen the change in the past" kind of time travel. which is a type of time travel that can easily turn into a paradox if you try to use it too much, but that's the idea. It wasn't a sudden "oh by the way I killed my mom" It was him as someone who has some level of control over time, having regrets about not stopping his mother's death. |
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| The reveal that Ymir actually loved King Fritz which makes no sense considering her character's been all about being oppressed and all. The Armin and Eren talk scene. The whole thing felt like they were doing a bad skit especially Eren saying he was just trying to impress Mikasa or whatever. Parodic. Mikasa crying over Eren under the tree. She SHOULD'VE gotten over it at that point but no. The fast forward scenes during the credits showing future mankind at war yet again (presumably with Paradis) which i thought shouldn't have been there. The Eldian-Marley and the Titan power conflicts had already ended with the mcs' story. Showing whatever happens afterwards kinda ruins the sense of conclusion it should've had. And then there's the climax which was even worse. |
TRC_RandyNov 5, 2023 7:31 PM
| Of course some people is gonna hate, why would you want realism in a media where escapism is the goal. The self insert people feel like they got killed and never got the girl. A 1000 years of peace wasn't enough, they wanted paradise until the end of time. Anyways, the show has a fking 9 at the moment, most people seems to be pretty sane. I expected a lower score for the final season, but it's always the butthurt the one that screams the loudest. Great ending for a great show. Considering the most popular anime bad written it's funny, people that say that are just insane. |
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Reply to TRC_Randy
The reveal that Ymir actually loved King Fritz which makes no sense considering her character's been all about being oppressed and all.
The Armin and Eren talk scene. The whole thing felt like they were doing a bad skit especially Eren saying he was just trying to impress Mikasa or whatever. Parodic.
Mikasa crying over Eren under the tree. She SHOULD'VE gotten over it at that point but no.
The fast forward scenes during the credits showing future mankind at war yet again (presumably with Paradis) which i thought shouldn't have been there. The Eldian-Marley and the Titan power conflicts had already ended with the mcs' story. Showing whatever happens afterwards kinda ruins the sense of conclusion it should've had.
And then there's the climax which was even worse.
The Armin and Eren talk scene. The whole thing felt like they were doing a bad skit especially Eren saying he was just trying to impress Mikasa or whatever. Parodic.
Mikasa crying over Eren under the tree. She SHOULD'VE gotten over it at that point but no.
The fast forward scenes during the credits showing future mankind at war yet again (presumably with Paradis) which i thought shouldn't have been there. The Eldian-Marley and the Titan power conflicts had already ended with the mcs' story. Showing whatever happens afterwards kinda ruins the sense of conclusion it should've had.
And then there's the climax which was even worse.
TRC_Randy said: The reveal that Ymir actually loved King Fritz which makes no sense considering her character's been all about being oppressed and all. We barely know about Yimir. her arc is more like a "lore" dump. she isn't really a character. it's pretty obvious her love was a Stockholm syndrome kind of situation. It could have been expanded, but it's nowhere near "not making sense". TRC_Randy said: The Armin and Eren talk scene. The whole thing felt like they were doing a bad skit especially Eren saying he was just trying to impress Mikasa or whatever. Parodic. Eren always cared about mikasa in the subtext, he was just too much of a meat head tsundere to say it. There are so many moments where it's so obvious how much he genuinely cares about her from the very start. That was just the moment he was venerable enough to open up his true feelings. TRC_Randy said: Mikasa crying over Eren under the tree. She SHOULD'VE gotten over it at that point but no. REALLY? are you telling me the character that her entire arc, and personality, has been 80% liking eren, should have fully gotten over it in 3 years? This one I don't even understand why you would say it. TRC_Randy said: The fast forward scenes during the credits showing future mankind at war yet again (presumably with Paradis) which i thought shouldn't have been there. The Eldian-Marley and the Titan power conflicts had already ended with the mcs' story. Showing whatever happens afterwards kinda ruins the sense of conclusion it should've had. well no, because a big point in aot is conflict always will happen. They needed to show that what eren did never ended war in general. Eren was not a hero, and the ending is extremely necessary in showing that. the message already went over most people's head. without that I wouldn't be surprised if people started claiming aot is pro genocide or something stupid like that. TRC_Randy said: nd then there's the climax which was even worse. what why? It had some plot armour, but other than that, that shit was epic. the music in particular was a love letter to the entire soundtrack, and the animation was consistently amazing. And then there's the climax which was even worse. |
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Reply to APolygons2
theMario3721 said:
Trying to make the viewer feel sorry for Eren at a point in the story where he has killed 80% of humanity doesn't work. It's obvious he wasn't all evil before the rumbling, but after season 3's ending, Isayama did quite a good job building Eren up to be an antagonist that has "good reasons" but does bad things because he think he's justified. That's good, that's great. Then, right at the ending, Eren starts crying like "ooohhhh i didnt want to do it 😭😭😭 i saw every future but it always ended on war so i thought that killing 80% of humanity was good so i could make you guys the heroes and then have you kill me like get me off of here man i dont want to deal with this anymore im just dumb lmao also sorry for killing you guys 😭😭😭".
Like... what? That's such a bad turn of events at the worst possible time it's just funny. Even worse, the characters act like Eren wasn't all bad he just didn't know what to do. Like he was a tiny bit justified. For Mikasa, this works, she was alredy crazy for him, that's understandable. For Armin? Not so much, but ok, I can make that stretch. Now, for all the rest? Jean? Connie? FUCKING LEVI? Levi quite literally saw Erwin die because of Eren, then saw Hange die because of Eren, and he was like "ok maybe he wasn't that bad, he's just stupid...". I mean, what the fuck?
Trying to make the viewer feel sorry for Eren at a point in the story where he has killed 80% of humanity doesn't work. It's obvious he wasn't all evil before the rumbling, but after season 3's ending, Isayama did quite a good job building Eren up to be an antagonist that has "good reasons" but does bad things because he think he's justified. That's good, that's great. Then, right at the ending, Eren starts crying like "ooohhhh i didnt want to do it 😭😭😭 i saw every future but it always ended on war so i thought that killing 80% of humanity was good so i could make you guys the heroes and then have you kill me like get me off of here man i dont want to deal with this anymore im just dumb lmao also sorry for killing you guys 😭😭😭".
Like... what? That's such a bad turn of events at the worst possible time it's just funny. Even worse, the characters act like Eren wasn't all bad he just didn't know what to do. Like he was a tiny bit justified. For Mikasa, this works, she was alredy crazy for him, that's understandable. For Armin? Not so much, but ok, I can make that stretch. Now, for all the rest? Jean? Connie? FUCKING LEVI? Levi quite literally saw Erwin die because of Eren, then saw Hange die because of Eren, and he was like "ok maybe he wasn't that bad, he's just stupid...". I mean, what the fuck?
Eren is actually one character that never even changed.
Eren always was an idiot who happened to get too much power in his hands. He only pretended to be this cold, calculating menace, and he had every single one of us fooled.
Memories of the future went ahead and showed that he never changed his goal, and the ending showed that he never changed at all. he is still and idiot with a single track mind, who went ahead and killed 80% of the population because it helped him reach his goal.
but eren is not an emotionless monster, he never was, even in s4p1 where we all believed he was as cold as ice, there were still scenes where him being affected by the damage he caused slipped through. his face after sasha died was probably the biggest slip through we got.
besides that, none of the characters in our cast ever agreed with what Eren did. It was more of an understanding that, He did something horrible, but he did it for us, and we can't hate him for it.
For levi it wasn't even that, he did not have a single line saying anything positive about what eren did. so I really would like to know where is this:
theMario3721 said:
he was like "ok maybe he wasn't that bad, he's just stupid...".
he was like "ok maybe he wasn't that bad, he's just stupid...".
that you speak of. cause I don't remember him saying anything like that, and I watched the episode today.
theMario3721 said:
Another reason the ending was bad was the scene where Eren told he killed his mother because otherwise Bertolt would die. That was just funny. Out of nowhere and for no reason at all besides making the reader be like poor Eren he was """"forced""""" to kill his mom :(
Another reason the ending was bad was the scene where Eren told he killed his mother because otherwise Bertolt would die. That was just funny. Out of nowhere and for no reason at all besides making the reader be like poor Eren he was """"forced""""" to kill his mom :(
what? no
You remember how in memories of the future Eren stepped in to encourage his father to kill historia's family?
That's the gist of what that line is. having access to the past and all that he could do something that would save his mother, but the attack on paradise had to happen. Eren didn't kill his mom.
He just didn't do anything to stop it.
I'll be it the time travel aspect of aot is basic, and functions on a "if the past is changed, you would have already seen the change in the past" kind of time travel. which is a type of time travel that can easily turn into a paradox if you try to use it too much, but that's the idea.
It wasn't a sudden "oh by the way I killed my mom"
It was him as someone who has some level of control over time, having regrets about not stopping his mother's death.
APolygons2 said: this is what Eren said 1:00:46That's the gist of what that line is. having access to the past and all that he could do something that would save his mother, but the attack on paradise had to happen. Eren didn't kill his mom. "That day, in that moment, Bertholdt had to stay alive. So i... sent it toward my mom and not him." And yeah it did feel like Isayama was just pumping out more plot twists for the sake of it. |
| Everybody should read Isayama's interviews about his thoughts on the manga Himeanole. For me it's just so tiresome seeing this discussion about the character of Eren when the man himself already said with plain and clear words what was his thought proccess characterizing him and what he tried to convey. It's a disservice to the community that this text isn't more known. Just search on google "Isayama himeanole interview", there's a translation for it in reddit. I hope this helps to clear some ambiguities about Eren's motivations and true intentions, although this is already beautifully portraited in the anime. |
 |
| Only manga readers are still crying about ending, it isn’t that bad. Ellen become dove for symbolism is my favourite part. |
Reply to TRC_Randy
APolygons2 said:
That's the gist of what that line is. having access to the past and all that he could do something that would save his mother, but the attack on paradise had to happen. Eren didn't kill his mom.
this is what Eren said 1:00:46That's the gist of what that line is. having access to the past and all that he could do something that would save his mother, but the attack on paradise had to happen. Eren didn't kill his mom.
"That day, in that moment, Bertholdt had to stay alive. So i... sent it toward my mom and not him."
And yeah it did feel like Isayama was just pumping out more plot twists for the sake of it.
TRC_Randy said: "That day, in that moment, Bertholdt had to stay alive. So i... sent it toward my mom and not him." You missed some of it: "Armin, my head has gotten all messed up _ The founder's power has made it so that there is no past or future _ It all exists at once. So I had to do it, That day, in that moment, Bertholdt wasn't suppose to die yet So I let him go... and made it go towards my mother." He is basically saying he could change the past, and make it so the titan would attack bethorlt instead of continuing ahead and reaching his mom. It's not that "he killed his mom". It's that he didn't save her. |
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RandomPerson9348 said: You must understand that a lot of viewers/readers are 14-17 year olds who think that violence and dark themes are cool. For a lot of people, just that was enough to get angry about a relatively happy ending. Others were very angry because the manga condensed most of the Eren/Armin conversation and it was hard to read all the subtext in it for a lot of people. They made it abundantly more clear in the anime because they didn't have time/page constraints. And some just had a pre-built idea of the end that they wanted to see. I've seen and argued against people who literally thought that the twist of Eren indirectly killing his own mother was bad. They didn't even want that character development/didn't even understand such a simple twist. Thanks for this thread though. I have spent the last two years fighting the manga readers who hated the ending. Seeing so many people love it warms my heart. Isayama worked hard to make Eren one of the greatest protagonists of all time, and his work feels like it's finally paid off. Thissss exactly!! People need to read this! |
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Reply to Confused_100
APolygons2 said:
You missed some of it:
"Armin, my head has gotten all messed up _ The founder's power has made it so that there is no past or future _ It all exists at once. So I had to do it, That day, in that moment, Bertholdt wasn't suppose to die yet So I let him go... and made it go towards my mother."
He is basically saying he could change the past, and make it so the titan would attack bethorlt instead of continuing ahead and reaching his mom.
It's not that "he killed his mom". It's that he didn't save her.
TRC_Randy said:
"That day, in that moment, Bertholdt had to stay alive. So i... sent it toward my mom and not him."
"That day, in that moment, Bertholdt had to stay alive. So i... sent it toward my mom and not him."
You missed some of it:
"Armin, my head has gotten all messed up _ The founder's power has made it so that there is no past or future _ It all exists at once. So I had to do it, That day, in that moment, Bertholdt wasn't suppose to die yet So I let him go... and made it go towards my mother."
He is basically saying he could change the past, and make it so the titan would attack bethorlt instead of continuing ahead and reaching his mom.
It's not that "he killed his mom". It's that he didn't save her.
Made it go towards my mom… Idk if you are just playing around with english words right now but start being genuine or remove the thread if you don’t want to have an open mind.
| @Confused_100 The problem is that you are not thinking. so let me break it down. - why did he do it? to save bertholt that was the goal. There is no reasoning for why the mom had die specifically. so what does that imply? it implies that the titan would either go for bertholt, or would enter the city and end up eating eren's mom. The delima, would be unfinished otherwise. |
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