why are women being so unseen as audience ?

@TransferUser Yes, but there has also been a sharp increase in anime in general 😅 those numbers don't really mean anything if you don't take into account the total anime released each decade

@rodmanii nooo that's no fun! you were supposed to come up with something new :')

@DigiCat you can't even refute it. Shoujo anime are everything people criticise about the medium of anime/manga in general but excused because the target demographic is female and pickmes as well as contrarians will pretend to like it to have "better taste." and the vast majority have some form of romantic element and josei is even more explicit in this regard. Womxn will even flock to non romance shonen like Haikyuu in droves and create the impression that its a romance series with the amount of pairings they create. To suggest romance isn't a MAJOR factor in shoujo series proves you're a pickme who thinks romance is bad but hand waive it when it dominates female literature.

@LittleOwlbear sorry blud even queer folx flock to more male dominated spaces and tastes such as yuri or genderbending. Onimai for example had a 100% male at birth audience. the only people you will find josei on their bookshelf are fujo adjacent womxn who are considered non shitty otaku merely because of their gender so idk what you mean about misogyny when negative words in the community only apply to male fans.

because shoujo is an outdated notion of what the demographic wants these days
pretty sure right now relying on girls salivating over boys is not as reliable anymore
nowadays girls are gay and the classic shoujo tropes such as heterosexuality are simply not something that many girls and women anime fans are seeking
shoujo died for a reason
im not saying that void is filled - cuz i say its still obviously empty - but for sure we can fill it with more yuri

or maybe anime needs to be more like the euphoria tv show who knows but thats also like pretty fkn gay

@DigiCat

1960s - Less than 5 anime aimed at women out of around 200 titles - 2.5%
1970s - Less than 10 anime aimed at women out of around 400 titles - 2.5%
1980s - A bit over 50 anime aimed at women out of around 1100 titles - 4.5%
1990s - A bit over 80 anime aimed at women out of around 1800 titles - 4.4%
2000s - A bit over 170 anime aimed at women out of around 3500 titles - 4.8%
2010s - A bit over 500 anime aimed at women out of around 6300 titles - 7.9%

Anime geared towards women have increased in both absolute and relative numbers.
The relative numbers are even higher if you exclude low effort short anime.

@TransferUser Yes, but there has also been a sharp increase in anime in general 😅 those numbers don't really mean anything if you don't take into account the total anime released each decade

@Dienen Yes, a lot of shoujo are romance anime, because guess what? Most women love romance and that makes it the most popular genre among them! It's not personally my cup of tea, but i damn well have eyes and can see what the women around me are generally interested in

Also "a lot" does not = "all" as the OG comment seemed to be implying

And "romantic elements" does not = "romance genre", by that logic most shounen are romances too then cuz the characters have love interest, and if the series goes on lomg enough they even get married and have kids and then become grandparents too!

@DigiCat

Just a little correction, romance in fact doesn't seem to be the most popular genre among women, it's the genre in which there is a bigger discrepancy among men and women. There's a difference between the two statements.

In a survey, for example, I saw the following when it comes to the romance genre:
- Liked by 55% of the male audience
- Liked by 77% of the female audience

Meanwhile, with crime for example, you had:
- Liked by 79% of the male audience
- Liked by 84% of the female audience

As for action:
- Liked by 90% of male audience
- Liked by 86% of female audience

The more I look at surveys everywhere, the more it seems that women in general are not that picky about the genres they gravitate towards. Horror, Sci-fi, and Historical seem to be on the unpopular side consistently though (which pains me, as a gal whose favorite genre is historical, but it is what it is). Meanwhile, "crime" and "thriller/mystery" always seem to appear consistently high.

The reason why romance is always marketed toward a female audience is not exactly because romance is THE most popular genre among women, it's actually because it is the MOST unpopular (or second most unpopular in some cases) among men.

***

By the way, the reason I'm insisting on this is not because I'm against more anime that focuses on romance. Personally, it's not my cup of tea, but lots of women (and some men) like romance-heavy plots.

I just don't want the creators to feel the following sentiment: "Oh, my show has romance, so girls will prefer it over other shows" because that's not how it works. Romance shows are not just competing with other Romance shows. They are competing with everything else that is releasing at the moment. Yeah, some women who truly love romance will want to watch it regardless, but the majority of women will watch whatever looks more interesting independently of the genre. A creator can't expect that having romance in their work will make women fly toward it like a flock of birds. That's all.

OP, many women watch shonen or BL now. Demographics have already lost their meaning time ago.

And mahou shoujo was always more popular with adult males, not women lol.

I made the list myself at some point for unrelated purposed and included everything that I personally think is geared towards women without checking any tags.
It also includes a few sports anime that prominently feature Bishounen, like "Free!". Even some titles that are explicitly tagged Shounen, but that I feel are really more for women, like Golden Kamuy. But there aren't many like that and since the numbers I used to calculate the percentages were rounded they don't make a difference, I believe.

I'd be happy to have someone look over the list and tell me if there's anything that is missing or shouldn't be there, but I understand that it's very long, so there's probably no one reading the whole thing.

I added Noragami and Owari no Seraph. (Not to the post above, but to the list I have elsewhere.)
House of Five Leaves is already part of the list, but I only use Japanese names, so it is called by its original name: Sarai-ya Goyou.

Yuukoku no Moriarty and Vanitas no Karte are from after 2019 and I only went up to 2019 (and a bit of 2020) so far. Should have mentioned that the list is not "complete", sorry.

The others I feel are more neutral, like Higashi no Eden. Inuyasha is arguable, though.

The list doesn't discriminate against movies, but I think of Ghibli stuff more as family movies. (Hauro no Ugoku Shiro is my second favorite Ghibli movie behind Mononoke-hime. It's noticeable that the source was probably more for women but I think the movie did a good job being for everyone.)

@AppleIceCream Miyazaki creates young female characters for HIMSELF he has openly professed his "preferences" and its not a secret at all. The idea that he's a feminist is pure marketing and lack of media literacy.

@AppleIceCream cite your peer reviewed sources lil bro because with regards to manga romance is the fundamental draw for female audiences hence you see them find romance and pairings in NON ROMANCE series like Haikyuu or Gintama.

I made the list myself at some point for unrelated purposed and included everything that I personally think is geared towards women without checking any tags.
It also includes a few sports anime that prominently feature Bishounen, like "Free!". Even some titles that are explicitly tagged Shounen, but that I feel are really more for women, like Golden Kamuy. But there aren't many like that and since the numbers I used to calculate the percentages were rounded they don't make a difference, I believe.

I'd be happy to have someone look over the list and tell me if there's anything that is missing or shouldn't be there, but I understand that it's very long, so there's probably no one reading the whole thing.

@AppleIceCream the work speaks for itself and is full of the male gaze and the focus on little girls goes beyond "feminism" concerning his statements on falling in love with 12 year old girls and why he switched to a career in anime in the first place. He is at the very least an otaku lolicon and the feminist image is marketing for auteur reasons which is what a lot of creators when asked about the cartoon they make hand waive so horseshit which is not represented in the final product. Nothing about the movies he mentioned express any kind of feminism but the design of these characters are from his era of lolicons lol.

@NoelleIsSleepy The only people who give a shit about Josei and aren't poser contrarians know the source languages (Korean, Japanese) and can actually access the Josei library/put their money where their mouth is and seek it out. OP needs to be spoonfed so hard they need something to trend so hard it breaks the mainstream in order to find something rather than create ragebait threads.

@DigiCat

Just a little correction, romance in fact doesn't seem to be the most popular genre among women, it's the genre in which there is a bigger discrepancy among men and women. There's a difference between the two statements.

In a survey, for example, I saw the following when it comes to the romance genre:
- Liked by 55% of the male audience
- Liked by 77% of the female audience

Meanwhile, with crime for example, you had:
- Liked by 79% of the male audience
- Liked by 84% of the female audience

As for action:
- Liked by 90% of male audience
- Liked by 86% of female audience

The more I look at surveys everywhere, the more it seems that women in general are not that picky about the genres they gravitate towards. Horror, Sci-fi, and Historical seem to be on the unpopular side consistently though (which pains me, as a gal whose favorite genre is historical, but it is what it is). Meanwhile, "crime" and "thriller/mystery" always seem to appear consistently high.

The reason why romance is always marketed toward a female audience is not exactly because romance is THE most popular genre among women, it's actually because it is the MOST unpopular (or second most unpopular in some cases) among men.

***

By the way, the reason I'm insisting on this is not because I'm against more anime that focuses on romance. Personally, it's not my cup of tea, but lots of women (and some men) like romance-heavy plots.

I just don't want the creators to feel the following sentiment: "Oh, my show has romance, so girls will prefer it over other shows" because that's not how it works. Romance shows are not just competing with other Romance shows. They are competing with everything else that is releasing at the moment. Yeah, some women who truly love romance will want to watch it regardless, but the majority of women will watch whatever looks more interesting independently of the genre. A creator can't expect that having romance in their work will make women fly toward it like a flock of birds. That's all.

I made the list myself at some point for unrelated purposed and included everything that I personally think is geared towards women without checking any tags.
It also includes a few sports anime that prominently feature Bishounen, like "Free!". Even some titles that are explicitly tagged Shounen, but that I feel are really more for women, like Golden Kamuy. But there aren't many like that and since the numbers I used to calculate the percentages were rounded they don't make a difference, I believe.

I'd be happy to have someone look over the list and tell me if there's anything that is missing or shouldn't be there, but I understand that it's very long, so there's probably no one reading the whole thing.

How about a counterpoint?

One of the biggest anime of the last 5 years was written by a woman. Demon Slayer. The highest rated anime on MAL was also written by a woman. Full Metal Alchemist. FMA even got two seperate adaptions.

Magi: The Labriynth of Magic got a even better sequel series and a super mid spinoff anime. They love the mangaka so much they adapted her next anime Orient and gave it two seasons to be extremely basic. And I say this a someone who would put the Alma Toran arc of Magi up with literally any arc in any manga ever.

Also I watched a lot of great Shoujo last year and this year. G-Witch's mediocrity finally moved me to seek out the best of the best. Sailor Moon S. The third season of Sailor Moon Crystal. Revolutionary Girl Utena. The Yuuki Yuuna film trilogy. Even Shakugan no Shana, which is shoujo in almost every way a non shojo anime can be.

I even started realizing the reason Bleach got so popular in the first place was because Tite Kubo basically dropped a shoujo romance right in the middle of the first few seasons with Ichigo and Rukia.

That's not even counting Migi to Dali, Blue Exorcist, or any of these other anime I gave the time of day that put a uniquely feminine spin on the way men and boys talk, walk and exist. Basically, I'm all for more shoujo anime. The thing is, I can't stand school anime with very few exceptions, and shojo anime frequently finds someway to make middle and high school the be all end all. So I can't cap and say I want more basic ass school anime. Shonen, Shojo, or anything else. I'd even choose an isekai over a basic school based anime.

So I do want more shojo anime. I just want them to have nothing to do with schools or idols or any of that cultural stuff that gets recycled in almost every anime.

I think women have many talents and shouldn't be limited to only Shoujo or Josei. I also think they should get more opportunities to put out more stuff they think is cool, whether it be Shoujo, Shonen, or something else.

That surprises me given the upcoming reboot of The Rose of Versailles and the nonstop milking of Hakuoki.

Thanks.

Golden Kamuy gave me strong shoujo vibes. It's the whole narrative and how the characters are portrayed.
It's been a while since I saw it, so I'd have to go back to it to give a better answer, but since I disliked it a lot, I do not want to go back to it..
If more people disagree on its inclusion I'll remove it.

Haikyuu is included for being a sports anime with lots of Bishounen. It's narratively a shounen, but also appeals to women.
The same way that lots of mahou shoujo titles are narratively shoujo, but also appeal to men.
In a purely shoujo list I wouldn't have included it, but the list I was trying to make also includes this type of show.

I added Whistle! to the list.

Psycho-Pass was part of the noitamina project, whose goal it was to expand the target audience beyond males and I also feel that it's trying to appeal to women without going for the typical shoujo narrative. I don't feel strongly either way. If a few people disagree I'll remove it.

I've commented the list below.





When I started the list I had the mind of doing only one title per franchise, but I gave up that idea midway through the 1980s without going back and adding all the stuff I omitted.


Both of your lists commented with my thoughts:



Thanks a lot, you two. I appreciate someone taking the time to look through it.

Thanks.

Golden Kamuy gave me strong shoujo vibes. It's the whole narrative and how the characters are portrayed.
It's been a while since I saw it, so I'd have to go back to it to give a better answer, but since I disliked it a lot, I do not want to go back to it..
If more people disagree on its inclusion I'll remove it.

Haikyuu is included for being a sports anime with lots of Bishounen. It's narratively a shounen, but also appeals to women.
The same way that lots of mahou shoujo titles are narratively shoujo, but also appeal to men.
In a purely shoujo list I wouldn't have included it, but the list I was trying to make also includes this type of show.

I added Whistle! to the list.

Psycho-Pass was part of the noitamina project, whose goal it was to expand the target audience beyond males and I also feel that it's trying to appeal to women without going for the typical shoujo narrative. I don't feel strongly either way. If a few people disagree I'll remove it.

I've commented the list below.





When I started the list I had the mind of doing only one title per franchise, but I gave up that idea midway through the 1980s without going back and adding all the stuff I omitted.


Both of your lists commented with my thoughts:



Thanks a lot, you two. I appreciate someone taking the time to look through it.

real women only watch/read shounen and seinen. they also larp as male fans on the internet.

Thanks.

Golden Kamuy gave me strong shoujo vibes. It's the whole narrative and how the characters are portrayed.
It's been a while since I saw it, so I'd have to go back to it to give a better answer, but since I disliked it a lot, I do not want to go back to it..
If more people disagree on its inclusion I'll remove it.

Haikyuu is included for being a sports anime with lots of Bishounen. It's narratively a shounen, but also appeals to women.
The same way that lots of mahou shoujo titles are narratively shoujo, but also appeal to men.
In a purely shoujo list I wouldn't have included it, but the list I was trying to make also includes this type of show.

I added Whistle! to the list.

Psycho-Pass was part of the noitamina project, whose goal it was to expand the target audience beyond males and I also feel that it's trying to appeal to women without going for the typical shoujo narrative. I don't feel strongly either way. If a few people disagree I'll remove it.

I've commented the list below.





When I started the list I had the mind of doing only one title per franchise, but I gave up that idea midway through the 1980s without going back and adding all the stuff I omitted.


Both of your lists commented with my thoughts:



Thanks a lot, you two. I appreciate someone taking the time to look through it.

I'm not very concerned with the source material, since if you want to go by that compiling a list is fairly straightforward.
What I was going for when compiling my list was style and narrative. Characters aren't really drawn in a shoujo/josei style in either of these and while the narrative might not be typical shounen I didn't get the feeling of them being proper shoujo/josei, either. This is, of course, debatable.

07-Ghost is on the list.



If you go by my MAL list you'll only find a small fraction of what I've watched/read, since my full anime list is on another platform. Can't import data from there and it's too tedious to enter thousands of anime/manga.



I'd say old Tezuka in general is a bit dated, so it's difficult imagining anyone not interested in history watching 1970s and earlier anime.
But for what it's worth Fushigi na Melmo (1971) has nudity with nipples and panty shots which isn't really a defining feature of anime for women.

This cant be true.
Like half the anime in any given season is a bunch of SoL, School Life, romance junk. Directly targeted at women.
Not to mention that some women would like all the action stuff too. Which there are still a few female driven ones.
Id go as far as to say that every boy-love bait show is also directed at women.

@ComboSmooth There's no chance that even half of the things you have in mind are "targeted at women".

@LostSpectre

care to explain why that is?

@LenRea So who do you think watch/read shoujo and josei ? "Fake" women ? Men ?

I'm not very concerned with the source material, since if you want to go by that compiling a list is fairly straightforward.
What I was going for when compiling my list was style and narrative. Characters aren't really drawn in a shoujo/josei style in either of these and while the narrative might not be typical shounen I didn't get the feeling of them being proper shoujo/josei, either. This is, of course, debatable.

07-Ghost is on the list.



If you go by my MAL list you'll only find a small fraction of what I've watched/read, since my full anime list is on another platform. Can't import data from there and it's too tedious to enter thousands of anime/manga.



I'd say old Tezuka in general is a bit dated, so it's difficult imagining anyone not interested in history watching 1970s and earlier anime.
But for what it's worth Fushigi na Melmo (1971) has nudity with nipples and panty shots which isn't really a defining feature of anime for women.

@ComboSmooth How about because you're mentioning school/sol like those genres are in any way limited to female demos.

There's also a lot more male targeted romance these days than what you would have found 10+ years ago.