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does age matter?
always
19.0%
11
often
29.3%
17
sometimes
32.8%
19
rarely
8.6%
5
never
5.2%
3
i do not know
5.2%
3
58 votes
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Apr 3, 2024 8:52 AM
Offline
Jan 2017
312
Reply to Noboru
DreamWindow said:
Some of you guys need to realize that calling a child "mature for their age" is actually something pedophiles say when they are grooming children. So the argument of "emotional or mental maturity" is out the fucking window. It doesn't exist. It's not up for debate. And if the kid thinks they are mature for their age -they almost definitely aren't. If you've been a kid or a teenager, you should realize that you were a fucking idiot around that age. Child predation is an act of aggression that almost always leads to mental problems later on in the child's life. The abuser creates a toxic relationship, and attempts to separate the child from the family, because they know that their parents would take action if discovered.
Too many buzzwords. 14 years old are no prepubescent children. We are not talking about ages where even more people would raise eyebrows (11-13, hebephilia) or would find outright shocking (usually 10 or younger, the actual clinical definition), but about ages (14+) where in cultures around the world, the girls have been considered (young) women already.
When it comes to physical and psychological development, girls have an edge over boys. After 14, girls will barely grow any further. Compared to that, guys can have their last growth spurt in their late teens even after the age of 18. With "mature for their age", it can be also just meant that they act polite/nice around the older person.
Under "grooming" can pretty much every love relationship fall that escalates sexually over the course of time. I wonder if you would call how Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip came together as "grooming", since she was just 13 when she fell in love
Not all parents would take actions that's just an emotional appeal here over what you perceive as moral. And last but not least, it depends on the people whether a relationship is toxic and/or abusive because it can very well happen even with two full-fledged adults in their 30s or older

You guys should worry more about cases where primary schoolers or even kindergarteners learn about sexual orientation, gender identity and self-pleasure in the West, because that's the actual vile thing. Or any form of unwanted contact because the culture is either too sexualized or focused on seducing (Japan, Hispanic especially when the girls start dancing at very young ages) or too restrictive (Islamic/Arabic) and then the guys get overly horny because they haven't been raised properly and they haven't been used to see girls bodies from younger ages
@Noboru
You guys should worry more about cases where primary schoolers or even kindergarteners learn about sexual orientation, gender identity and self-pleasure in the West, because that's the actual vile thing. Or any form of unwanted contact because the culture is either too sexualized or focused on seducing (Japan, Hispanic especially when the girls start dancing at very young ages) or too restrictive (Islamic/Arabic) and then the guys get overly horny because they haven't been raised properly and they haven't been used to see girls bodies from younger ages

Just Islam. While I'm not an Arabian, but a southeast asian man, my wife and my ex are Arabians, and both of them as well as some other Arabian female friends of mine said that their parents aren't as restrictive, though they are strict enough when it comes to clothing. Devoted Muslim parents, regardless the race, on the other hand...



Gintoki and Joseph ftw!
Also, STR or DEX? Quality build, of course!
Apr 3, 2024 9:05 AM

Offline
Mar 2008
53206
Going off what was said in some other post somewhere in here. No one is immune to flattery at any age. To assume otherwise is to be vulnerable to what could be empty words. Actions and intentions mean more. There is no shortage of people in their 30s think they were dumb in their 20s and in their 40s say the same about their 30s or in their 70s about their 40s. This path isn't the same linear path for everyone it has twists and turns taking people different places at different times and some assume it must be their age not their experiences that are guiding and shaping their outlook. People as they get older have a tendency to push their perceived boundaries of when they think stages of life occur more and more in attempt to not feel like it was so long ago trying to cope with how they are getting older. Anyone can think they are wiser than themselves in past before whether true or not since even if they get more foolish they think it because of a bias of always thinking they are right and not wanting to consider being wrong. Anyone at any age can overestimate or underestimate themselves. Sad truth is no one knows what they are doing at any age and will likely die never knowing. All anyone can do is try their best with what they got and be mindful of their own actions and biases.

@PeripheralVision
They are two unrelated things though. Look at for example the age someone can apply for a drivers license. What about how in something like 30 states in the US kids (and i literally mean like 8 year olds) can own and operate rifles and shotguns even if their body isnt strong or heavy enough to handle the recoil which is an extremely dangerous situation. What about how in the US you can go war 18 but arent old enough to drink at 21. Age based laws arent made to be logical and more serve political shenanigans to have something to endlessly shift goalposts on to avoid actual changes to society and governance.

Edit:oops you had written something to someone else so it is less clear i was replying to your reply to me.
traedApr 4, 2024 2:12 PM
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Apr 3, 2024 9:12 AM
Offline
Jan 2017
312
Reply to Zarutaku
It's just a funny gender stereotype that sometimes comes up in controversial debates.
@Zarutaku Agreed. This is speaking from personal experience, so it sounds subjective, but most of the chef I know are male. Of course, I daresay women will always cook better than men; hence why Mom's cooking is the best is a universally known and arguably accepted saying, but there are times where men's cooking are simply excellent on professional level. Gordon Ramsay and Ainsley Harriot's cooking, for example.

Ainsley Harriot? Hehe boi. Look up for his videos on YouTube. His cooking is extraordinary and his voice is ASMR-worthy.
Gintoki and Joseph ftw!
Also, STR or DEX? Quality build, of course!
Apr 3, 2024 9:20 AM
Offline
Jul 2018
561912
Reply to traed
Going off what was said in some other post somewhere in here. No one is immune to flattery at any age. To assume otherwise is to be vulnerable to what could be empty words. Actions and intentions mean more. There is no shortage of people in their 30s think they were dumb in their 20s and in their 40s say the same about their 30s or in their 70s about their 40s. This path isn't the same linear path for everyone it has twists and turns taking people different places at different times and some assume it must be their age not their experiences that are guiding and shaping their outlook. People as they get older have a tendency to push their perceived boundaries of when they think stages of life occur more and more in attempt to not feel like it was so long ago trying to cope with how they are getting older. Anyone can think they are wiser than themselves in past before whether true or not since even if they get more foolish they think it because of a bias of always thinking they are right and not wanting to consider being wrong. Anyone at any age can overestimate or underestimate themselves. Sad truth is no one knows what they are doing at any age and will likely die never knowing. All anyone can do is try their best with what they got and be mindful of their own actions and biases.

@PeripheralVision
They are two unrelated things though. Look at for example the age someone can apply for a drivers license. What about how in something like 30 states in the US kids (and i literally mean like 8 year olds) can own and operate rifles and shotguns even if their body isnt strong or heavy enough to handle the recoil which is an extremely dangerous situation. What about how in the US you can go war 18 but arent old enough to drink at 21. Age based laws arent made to be logical and more serve political shenanigans to have something to endlessly shift goalposts on to avoid actual changes to society and governance.

Edit:oops you had written something to someone else so it is less clear i was replying to your reply to me.
@traed

I do not agree with every law that the states have, and am open to new restrictions or lessening older ones.

Although I do not disagree with the notion of progressive adulthood, or the idea that our laws are contradictory or serve as political theater, or that children should not have any freedoms or rights, I think whether or not it is used as political theater it is all that irrelevant here.

Unless you think 14 years olds should have all the legal freedoms of adults, I fail to see how we can argue that they can consent to sexual activities with an adult. We do not allow them many freedoms because we do not think they capable of having them responsibly.

My argument is not an appeal to the law itself dearest Traed, but to the general moral arguments underpinning their implementations. Children generally cannot but and purchase weapons. Children cannot drink or smoke or vote or sign contracts without major oversight or work full hours at a workplace.

Why? Because we generally recognize children as a uniquely vulnerable group in our society that would be further exploited in the absence of labor laws and laws regarding sexual relationships. You are not wrong to point out the de jure or even the de facto consistencies, but this is not an argument for having no protections whatsoever, but better and more consistent ones overall. Acknowledging the complexity does not address the necessity to have a society which condemns, both legal and morally, any system that allows predators to prey on children, on seniors, in the mentally incapacitated or those with a severe intellectually disability.

Which by the way, I really hate the MADD implementation of drinking at 21.
Apr 3, 2024 9:36 AM

Offline
Jun 2019
6746
Why isn't this thread locked? I was forced to watch a human birth in a middle school biology class and that left me "traumatised" for years. There was also a weird moment where we were shown with infrared the evolution of a man's virility under a proper stimulus—it took me a while to understand what it was going on. When it comes to violence, I have never seen the point of respecting the age regulations about movies and video games (if you are at least 13-14, say; I watched Alien around 11-12 and it scared me so much that I could not sleep afterwards), considering how violent the school environment is.

The people in this thread who pretend that they turned out okay after having been exposed to traumatic material are all social outcasts...

PeripheralVision said:
Which by the way, I really hate the MADD implementation of drinking at 21.

This law is perfectly well justified from a medical viewpoint:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240228-how-alcohol-affects-teens-and-young-adults-brains
Apr 3, 2024 9:43 AM

Offline
Jan 2009
15933
Reply to IAmOdie
@Noboru
You guys should worry more about cases where primary schoolers or even kindergarteners learn about sexual orientation, gender identity and self-pleasure in the West, because that's the actual vile thing. Or any form of unwanted contact because the culture is either too sexualized or focused on seducing (Japan, Hispanic especially when the girls start dancing at very young ages) or too restrictive (Islamic/Arabic) and then the guys get overly horny because they haven't been raised properly and they haven't been used to see girls bodies from younger ages

Just Islam. While I'm not an Arabian, but a southeast asian man, my wife and my ex are Arabians, and both of them as well as some other Arabian female friends of mine said that their parents aren't as restrictive, though they are strict enough when it comes to clothing. Devoted Muslim parents, regardless the race, on the other hand...



@IAmOdie To be fair, the Islamic world was not as crazy before the extremists took over, if you compare countries like Afghanistan or Iran in the 1950s-early 1970s. There are different views on what people see as modest and what as restrictive. Wearing a headscarf was for example the normal thing in my grandma's and great-grandma's respective time, but in modern society, it's more associated with restrictive views on the woman. But yes, I agree that too much fanaticism is not good.
How strict were they though?
Apr 3, 2024 12:04 PM

Offline
Dec 2016
322
People can say whatever they want, that teenagers will do whatever they want lol

Yeah, you can defend the idea that they shouldn't be dating adults and yet i dare yall to ask a bunch of girls if they are virgin and take notes of the age the man had when they lost it. You'll be surprised lol

The fake is of far greater value. In its deliberate attempt to be real, it's more real than the real thing.

If u hate monogatari, u are just dumb
Apr 3, 2024 1:32 PM

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Sep 2016
20863
Reply to skapito
People can say whatever they want, that teenagers will do whatever they want lol

Yeah, you can defend the idea that they shouldn't be dating adults and yet i dare yall to ask a bunch of girls if they are virgin and take notes of the age the man had when they lost it. You'll be surprised lol
@skapito

I remember in my high school years a 16yo girl from our friend group wanted to lose her v-card and she preyed on a 21yo acquaintance. According to her "it" happened, her bestie was shocked but she didn't make a big deal about it. After high school she studied medicine and became a doctor, no clue what happened to the lucky bastard, I guess he's happy with some fond memories.
Apr 3, 2024 1:53 PM

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Mar 2008
53206
PeripheralVision said:
Why? Because we generally recognize children as a uniquely vulnerable group in our society that would be further exploited in the absence of labor laws and laws regarding sexual relationships. You are not wrong to point out the de jure or even the de facto consistencies, but this is not an argument for having no protections whatsoever, but better and more consistent ones overall. Acknowledging the complexity does not address the necessity to have a society which condemns, both legal and morally, any system that allows predators to prey on children, on seniors, in the mentally incapacitated or those with a severe intellectually disability.

I wanted to focus on broader topics than just this fixation on age of consent. Most people dont even understand laws and wrongly assume why they were created. The age of consent was not created for that which is why it has so many flaws and is so ineffective. Generally speaking and simplified in the West and and Mid East it was no sex outside marriage because girls were treated as property of their father's to be sold off. Then this shifted to an age out system after individualism became more the norm and people just got tired of this marriage only system but this still kept offspring as property of their parents. It was a failed attempt at ending sex under X age as means of control of youth. Though in US I recall reading it was raised to where it is in a failed attempt to end teenage pregnancy instead of having sex education and birth control methods though i have trouble finding that source again to verify more. You dont really hear about it because it damages the narrative but even minors can be charged with a crime for having sex with other minors even of same age. They get charged for it going to juvenile court. You see further proof it isn't about objective ability when something as inconsistent as "parental consent" exists. You see this all over in different laws that minors are not considered full people and more property like how in some places kids even teenagers cant even have right to refuse forensic examination so they are legally sexually assaulted in the name of justice against those who defile the "property" with sexual acts even if consensual because "who cares about their thoughts and feelings, they dont know what is good for them. I"m protecting them" kind of mindset. This is further done by calling them a "child" a category that places them in the same group as infants and fetuses. Earlier in the thread you cited potentially dangerous neurological misinformation that has been spreading to help support this kind of oppression of young people from having rights and i guarantee it will be used to justify to raise voting age. Actual predators of every kind dont care about something irrelevant like age they care about opportunity and vulnerability and these things can exist in any and all ages in some form or another at some point and can be exploited by any age. This could be in many forms like physical disability or mental illness of any kind including depression but it isnt even limited to just that it can be loss of a loved one and financial troubles. Should they all have their bodily autonomy and right to a relationship taken away to "protect" them from "predators" because "who would ever love them" and "they dont know what is good for them. I'm protecting them"? No one would have rights in the end. Ive mentioned before earlier in the thread forcing people to secrecy about their relationships fosters abuse regardless of any ages involved. No one is arguing for no protections. Sexual assault laws already exist and need improved on expanded into defining what is informed consent, as does the general societal structures could be improved to better foster healthy relationships and have a generally better environment for everyone. That is the ideal at least. Otherwise you at very least need age systems that takes into context individual relationships not just age in order to avoid the many harms of broad stroke laws and a few countries try to do this but it can always be improved.

Edit:
@PeripheralVision
I dont really like how you responded nor the kind of conflict seeking people the thread is attracting and I never wanted to go on about age of consent to begin with, Doesnt motivate me to respond to everything so im making this quick and not bumping the thread for it.

You seem to have conflated verbal consent (which usually no one means but that was your focus it seems), legal right to consent, right to refuse and informed consent. These are different things. Informed consent basically just means while not applying as coerced consent a sort consent made from being informed enough to make a rational decision. Problem is defining the line on what is informed enough. It seems difficult but not impossible and many count systems already look at individual cases for example how minors get emancipated a judge examines their ability to live away from their parents or get out of the foster care system earlier. However this is already technically defined in some laws as an age different by country so it is not irrelevant and impossible to have actual definitions that go beyond an age because unless they literally drew them from a hat there had to be some sort of rational even if it were poor ones it is something, it is why they dont charge someone having a relationship with a teenager same as someone preying on like a 5 year old and the crimes if broken fall into different categories.

I in that section was defending the rights of minors to not be sexually assaulted for the legal system. No I wasn't accusing you of anything personally, I'm pointing out the roots of where this all comes from and all the hypocrisy and lies involved. The US was what i was talking about some info i had come across before reading law in a different state for personal reasons involving someone i know awaiting sending someone to prison for rape although i am a little fuzzy if it was for sure forensic examination or court examination (where they basically get harassed and abused by lawyers and the judge). Reading legalese can get tedious so im not really in mood to track down every state's and every countries laws and their time of being added. And that was just one example, why that example is I was pointing out how there is another side to the legal system, the side of those who go through it and are abused by it even though the system is claiming they are victims. The backlog is for actual sexual assault cases is quite huge. They get held up for years and years which is bad for the victims having everything dragged out so long and bad for the accused if they are innocent and this gets held up even more from consensual sex cases. Maybe it would be better processing speed of rape kits and court dates if at least for a certain age range to handle consensual things where those involved can choose to take it in civil court if they feel wronged, in order to not further backlog time sensitive rape cases for priority of parents mad their offspring may have had sex and wanting to punish them and everyone else involved.

Horseshoe theory is an internet meme joke not a legitimate political theory by people that actually understand politics.

"Fuck you"
I wasn't really talking about you. It was random and a lot of what I said could apply to me.

Different people even if they were same age can have very different life experiences, social lives, or lack of those and different characteristics and qualities to them and different capabilities and difficulties Wouldn't you agree? Im sure there is times you have mistaken the age of people on MAL whether for older or younger.

People can be manipulated at any age. People of any age can manipulate. Anyone saying otherwise is the perfect target.

I'm not even saying anything controversial. I am supported by the latest findings over years that apparently researchers are increadibly slow to figure out common sense that age itself isnt what makes someone feel bad about their sexual experiences but the other factors around it are greater signifigance, even if someone is in their mid 20s or older they have a lot of the same experiences about first time having sex. There is multiple studies backing this up as straight fact. You have to learn to read between the lines on some studies though. Here is for a quick glance at some things researchers say.
The timing of first sexual intercourse is often defined in terms of chronological age, with particular focus on “early” first sex. Arguments can be made for a more nuanced concept of readiness and appropriateness of timing of first intercourse. Using data from the third National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles (Natsal-3), conducted in 2010–2012, this study examined whether a context-based measure of first intercourse—termed sexual competence—was associated with subsequent sexual health in a population-based sample of 17-to 24-year-olds residing in Britain (n = 2,784). Participants were classified as “sexually competent” at first intercourse if they reported the following four criteria: contraceptive protection, autonomy of decision (not due to external influences), that both partners were “equally willing,” and that it happened at the “right time.” A lack of sexual competence at first intercourse was independently associated with testing positive for human papillomavirus (HPV) at interview; low sexual function in the past year; and among women only, reported sexually transmitted infection (STI) diagnosis ever; unplanned pregnancy in the past year; and having ever experienced nonvolitional sex. These findings provide empirical support for defining the nature of first intercourse with reference to contextual aspects of the experience, as opposed to a sole focus on chronological age at occurrence.
[1]
A substantial proportion of young Britons are not ready for their first sexual activity– whatever their age–and lose their virginity “under circumstances that are incompatible with positive sexual health,” reveals research published online in BMJ Sexual & Reproductive Health.

Rather than focusing on the age at which a young person starts having sex, a much more nuanced approach is needed to this key milestone, say the researchers, in recognition of the fact that “young age alone doesn’t threaten sexual health any more than older age safeguards it.”
[2]

I already made my views clear I am against the large oversights of the current more common systems as is for all the harms it brings to those you claim it protects and I dont like to see people as mere stereotypes and averages, it's dehumanizing and a poor representation of people's individual experiences as they are. It is dangerous for someone to think themselves or someone else is safe or unsafe merely because of their age. Ive known too many people hurt from this. One even was almost murdered by a teen around her age she dated after she broke up with him for his frequent abuse..
traedApr 4, 2024 2:26 PM
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Apr 3, 2024 1:58 PM

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Dec 2016
322
Reply to Zarutaku
@skapito

I remember in my high school years a 16yo girl from our friend group wanted to lose her v-card and she preyed on a 21yo acquaintance. According to her "it" happened, her bestie was shocked but she didn't make a big deal about it. After high school she studied medicine and became a doctor, no clue what happened to the lucky bastard, I guess he's happy with some fond memories.
@Zarutaku I mean, i'm surprised all this folks are arguing about smth that happens on a daily basis (i get they are just stating in which "side" they are about the topic). I was pretty friendly with a bunch of girls back in the day and of course we would talk about sexual things a lot. I can assure you at least half of the girls i knew lost her V-card with adults and not only that but would repeat whenever they could

The fake is of far greater value. In its deliberate attempt to be real, it's more real than the real thing.

If u hate monogatari, u are just dumb
Apr 3, 2024 2:00 PM
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Jan 2017
312
Reply to Noboru
@IAmOdie To be fair, the Islamic world was not as crazy before the extremists took over, if you compare countries like Afghanistan or Iran in the 1950s-early 1970s. There are different views on what people see as modest and what as restrictive. Wearing a headscarf was for example the normal thing in my grandma's and great-grandma's respective time, but in modern society, it's more associated with restrictive views on the woman. But yes, I agree that too much fanaticism is not good.
How strict were they though?
@Noboru Forget dating, going with your opposite gender is not allowed, especially if you are a girl, though these girls would find their way to do so discreetly. But there are also the cases where the dating couple tell each of their parents that they are dating, and they approve it. In my personal experience, I have a friend who were dating with such conditions for 10 years straight, only for her to end up marrying someone else whom she dated for not more than 5 months. She told me that the reason was in the last 2-5 years of their relationship, the dude she was dating never made any advances or any possible signs of settling down. Let this be a lesson for us all.

As far as headscarves go, it is still pretty normal whether you wear it or don't, simply because there are lots of others who don't. But for clothing, revealing outfit is a big no-no. Devoted Muslim girl, well, Devoted Muslimah, raised by devoted Muslim parents would wear long hijab covering not only their hair, but also their breasts and even their butts. Other Muslimah would just wear headscarves long enough to cover their hair. But there ARE muslimah here who don't wear such things, either because the parents are quite lax, negligence, or absent. Even so these women are mostly hesitant to wear revealing outfit in public.

I daresay devoted Muslim parents are all universally the same when it comes to parenting; loving but strict at the same time.
Gintoki and Joseph ftw!
Also, STR or DEX? Quality build, of course!
Apr 3, 2024 2:00 PM

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Apr 2020
3936
Yeah...it's a pretty important number xD

You might have been one hell of a mature 8 year old.
But chances are: You weren't and watching porn/violence, on screen, wasn't good for you^^
Apr 3, 2024 2:08 PM

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May 2014
3442
Uhh this thread is just maps. Maps everywhere.
Apr 3, 2024 2:56 PM
lagom
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Jan 2009
106929
@Noboru i remember youre from germany and the age of consent there is 14 now it makes sense
Apr 3, 2024 5:15 PM
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Jul 2018
561912
Reply to traed
PeripheralVision said:
Why? Because we generally recognize children as a uniquely vulnerable group in our society that would be further exploited in the absence of labor laws and laws regarding sexual relationships. You are not wrong to point out the de jure or even the de facto consistencies, but this is not an argument for having no protections whatsoever, but better and more consistent ones overall. Acknowledging the complexity does not address the necessity to have a society which condemns, both legal and morally, any system that allows predators to prey on children, on seniors, in the mentally incapacitated or those with a severe intellectually disability.

I wanted to focus on broader topics than just this fixation on age of consent. Most people dont even understand laws and wrongly assume why they were created. The age of consent was not created for that which is why it has so many flaws and is so ineffective. Generally speaking and simplified in the West and and Mid East it was no sex outside marriage because girls were treated as property of their father's to be sold off. Then this shifted to an age out system after individualism became more the norm and people just got tired of this marriage only system but this still kept offspring as property of their parents. It was a failed attempt at ending sex under X age as means of control of youth. Though in US I recall reading it was raised to where it is in a failed attempt to end teenage pregnancy instead of having sex education and birth control methods though i have trouble finding that source again to verify more. You dont really hear about it because it damages the narrative but even minors can be charged with a crime for having sex with other minors even of same age. They get charged for it going to juvenile court. You see further proof it isn't about objective ability when something as inconsistent as "parental consent" exists. You see this all over in different laws that minors are not considered full people and more property like how in some places kids even teenagers cant even have right to refuse forensic examination so they are legally sexually assaulted in the name of justice against those who defile the "property" with sexual acts even if consensual because "who cares about their thoughts and feelings, they dont know what is good for them. I"m protecting them" kind of mindset. This is further done by calling them a "child" a category that places them in the same group as infants and fetuses. Earlier in the thread you cited potentially dangerous neurological misinformation that has been spreading to help support this kind of oppression of young people from having rights and i guarantee it will be used to justify to raise voting age. Actual predators of every kind dont care about something irrelevant like age they care about opportunity and vulnerability and these things can exist in any and all ages in some form or another at some point and can be exploited by any age. This could be in many forms like physical disability or mental illness of any kind including depression but it isnt even limited to just that it can be loss of a loved one and financial troubles. Should they all have their bodily autonomy and right to a relationship taken away to "protect" them from "predators" because "who would ever love them" and "they dont know what is good for them. I'm protecting them"? No one would have rights in the end. Ive mentioned before earlier in the thread forcing people to secrecy about their relationships fosters abuse regardless of any ages involved. No one is arguing for no protections. Sexual assault laws already exist and need improved on expanded into defining what is informed consent, as does the general societal structures could be improved to better foster healthy relationships and have a generally better environment for everyone. That is the ideal at least. Otherwise you at very least need age systems that takes into context individual relationships not just age in order to avoid the many harms of broad stroke laws and a few countries try to do this but it can always be improved.

Edit:
@PeripheralVision
I dont really like how you responded nor the kind of conflict seeking people the thread is attracting and I never wanted to go on about age of consent to begin with, Doesnt motivate me to respond to everything so im making this quick and not bumping the thread for it.

You seem to have conflated verbal consent (which usually no one means but that was your focus it seems), legal right to consent, right to refuse and informed consent. These are different things. Informed consent basically just means while not applying as coerced consent a sort consent made from being informed enough to make a rational decision. Problem is defining the line on what is informed enough. It seems difficult but not impossible and many count systems already look at individual cases for example how minors get emancipated a judge examines their ability to live away from their parents or get out of the foster care system earlier. However this is already technically defined in some laws as an age different by country so it is not irrelevant and impossible to have actual definitions that go beyond an age because unless they literally drew them from a hat there had to be some sort of rational even if it were poor ones it is something, it is why they dont charge someone having a relationship with a teenager same as someone preying on like a 5 year old and the crimes if broken fall into different categories.

I in that section was defending the rights of minors to not be sexually assaulted for the legal system. No I wasn't accusing you of anything personally, I'm pointing out the roots of where this all comes from and all the hypocrisy and lies involved. The US was what i was talking about some info i had come across before reading law in a different state for personal reasons involving someone i know awaiting sending someone to prison for rape although i am a little fuzzy if it was for sure forensic examination or court examination (where they basically get harassed and abused by lawyers and the judge). Reading legalese can get tedious so im not really in mood to track down every state's and every countries laws and their time of being added. And that was just one example, why that example is I was pointing out how there is another side to the legal system, the side of those who go through it and are abused by it even though the system is claiming they are victims. The backlog is for actual sexual assault cases is quite huge. They get held up for years and years which is bad for the victims having everything dragged out so long and bad for the accused if they are innocent and this gets held up even more from consensual sex cases. Maybe it would be better processing speed of rape kits and court dates if at least for a certain age range to handle consensual things where those involved can choose to take it in civil court if they feel wronged, in order to not further backlog time sensitive rape cases for priority of parents mad their offspring may have had sex and wanting to punish them and everyone else involved.

Horseshoe theory is an internet meme joke not a legitimate political theory by people that actually understand politics.

"Fuck you"
I wasn't really talking about you. It was random and a lot of what I said could apply to me.

Different people even if they were same age can have very different life experiences, social lives, or lack of those and different characteristics and qualities to them and different capabilities and difficulties Wouldn't you agree? Im sure there is times you have mistaken the age of people on MAL whether for older or younger.

People can be manipulated at any age. People of any age can manipulate. Anyone saying otherwise is the perfect target.

I'm not even saying anything controversial. I am supported by the latest findings over years that apparently researchers are increadibly slow to figure out common sense that age itself isnt what makes someone feel bad about their sexual experiences but the other factors around it are greater signifigance, even if someone is in their mid 20s or older they have a lot of the same experiences about first time having sex. There is multiple studies backing this up as straight fact. You have to learn to read between the lines on some studies though. Here is for a quick glance at some things researchers say.
The timing of first sexual intercourse is often defined in terms of chronological age, with particular focus on “early” first sex. Arguments can be made for a more nuanced concept of readiness and appropriateness of timing of first intercourse. Using data from the third National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles (Natsal-3), conducted in 2010–2012, this study examined whether a context-based measure of first intercourse—termed sexual competence—was associated with subsequent sexual health in a population-based sample of 17-to 24-year-olds residing in Britain (n = 2,784). Participants were classified as “sexually competent” at first intercourse if they reported the following four criteria: contraceptive protection, autonomy of decision (not due to external influences), that both partners were “equally willing,” and that it happened at the “right time.” A lack of sexual competence at first intercourse was independently associated with testing positive for human papillomavirus (HPV) at interview; low sexual function in the past year; and among women only, reported sexually transmitted infection (STI) diagnosis ever; unplanned pregnancy in the past year; and having ever experienced nonvolitional sex. These findings provide empirical support for defining the nature of first intercourse with reference to contextual aspects of the experience, as opposed to a sole focus on chronological age at occurrence.
[1]
A substantial proportion of young Britons are not ready for their first sexual activity– whatever their age–and lose their virginity “under circumstances that are incompatible with positive sexual health,” reveals research published online in BMJ Sexual & Reproductive Health.

Rather than focusing on the age at which a young person starts having sex, a much more nuanced approach is needed to this key milestone, say the researchers, in recognition of the fact that “young age alone doesn’t threaten sexual health any more than older age safeguards it.”
[2]

I already made my views clear I am against the large oversights of the current more common systems as is for all the harms it brings to those you claim it protects and I dont like to see people as mere stereotypes and averages, it's dehumanizing and a poor representation of people's individual experiences as they are. It is dangerous for someone to think themselves or someone else is safe or unsafe merely because of their age. Ive known too many people hurt from this. One even was almost murdered by a teen around her age she dated after she broke up with him for his frequent abuse..
@traed

You dont really hear about it because it damages the narrative but even minors can be charged with a crime for having sex with other minors even of same age.


I did cite support for Romeo and Juliet laws[1], and they are pretty common throughout the states and other countries, though obviously we need more of them. You really need to space these response out.

I wanted to focus on broader topics than just this fixation on age of consent.


My response were focused to a large extent on Deg's and Noboru's position, with Deg outright saying that they believed the age of consent laws should be 14-16 like a supposed majority of the world. I just want to clear that up because I want at least some common ground that people our age should not be having sexual intercourse with junior high students.

I mean, you agree right? Not a simple "I would not", but an actual "no one should", Prince Philip be damned. Or rather, we should not live in a society that condones this sort of thing.

You see this all over in different laws that minors are not considered full people and more property like how in some places kids even teenagers cant even have right to refuse forensic examination so they are legally sexually assaulted in the name of justice against those who defile the "property" with sexual acts even if consensual because "who cares about their thoughts and feelings, they dont know what is good for them. I"m protecting them" kind of mindset. This is further done by calling them a "child" a category that places them in the same group as infants and fetuses.


In many of those places the age of consent law is lower if not nonexistence. The horseshoe theory of politics if you are familiar with suggests that extremists on both ends can agree despite their opposing beliefs, often because they are the very least agree in terms of the logic following their premises. I understand the notion of criticizing one for using perhaps the "same" sort of logic that many child abusers may use, but this is a false equivalency in this case, because unlike child abusers, I think some semblance of my logic makes actual sense.

Like children are not mentally capable of entering a sexual relationship with an adult. We often view relationships as being between two equal (Or mostly equal) parties without coercion of manipulation. Children are not equal to adults in terms of their mental faculties and often subsequently the rights afforded to them by society. There is an intrinsic power imbalance here, in addition to a societal one. Children don't have financial independence, for one.

This is further done by calling them a "child" a category that places them in the same group as infants and fetuses.


I hope you are playing devil's advocate, because Children. Cannot. Fucking. Consent.

Earlier in the thread you cited potentially dangerous neurological misinformation that has been spreading to help support this kind of oppression of young people from having rights and i guarantee it will be used to justify to raise voting age.


Fair enough, I was wrong. However, slippery slope. I could just as easily argue that the idea that treating children as adults with fully realized "rights" is itself oppressive by placing the onus of responsibility on individuals who cannot be assumed to be mentally capable of certain decisions. Therein lies two different freedoms. Freedoms from and freedoms to.

"Freedoms from" is the ability of ours to do what we want. I could be ditched in a desert, far away from the prying eyes of any government, but it wouldn't be "true" freedom because I would fucking die. I haven't been given any means to survive. This is where "Freedoms to" comes in. For example, the freedom to drive somewhere necessitates the production of roads. In some countries, this can further encompasses services like public healthcare, the freedom to act as one can without being inhibited by sickness or a lack of money.

We recognize children as being in a unique position where they can be exploited or they can be taken advantage of far easier than most adults. Of course we would restrict the freedom of children to vote or to work hours or jobs we deem unsuitable for them. Yes, these laws do limit the actions of children, but I argue that this is not a bad thing.

What libertarian nonsense could be used to justify the inclusion of children in the roofing industry? [2]

I support the rights of children in many cases, but I also realize that this has a limit. This is not a support of abolishing the rights of children, but safeguarding them. The "think of the children" plead to morality is not an intrinsically bad argument, however memeable it is, but ultimately dependent on the contexts.

Actual predators of every kind dont care about something irrelevant like age they care about opportunity and vulnerability and these things can exist in any and all ages in some form or another at some point and can be exploited by any age. This could be in many forms like physical disability or mental illness of any kind including depression but it isnt even limited to just that it can be loss of a loved one and financial troubles. Should they all have their bodily autonomy and right to a relationship taken away to "protect" them from "predators" because "who would ever love them" and "they dont know what is good for them


First of all, age is not fucking irrelevant. There are clear general differences between a 37 year old and a 14 year old. I shouldn't have to explain this.

I know you are playing Devil's Advocate, but you are doing a terrible job at it by trying to get me to explain every position that I have as if you were acting in bad faith and suggesting I wanted no one to have rights. I think I done a pretty good job of not accusing you of being a child molester thus far.

Where was I? Don't you fucking compare adult persons with my conditions to young children, first and foremost. Fuck you.

Sexual assault laws already exist and need improved on expanded into defining what is informed consent, as does the general societal structures could be improved to better foster healthy relationships and have a generally better environment for everyone. That is the ideal at least.


The issue is that grooming exists where children can be manipulated into "consenting", but these are the sort of laws that favor predators and abusers. Children cannot say "no" or "yes". No one can in the absence of being able to understand consequences or being a position where they can safely refuse. If you believe consent is just a matter of getting someone to say "no" or "yes", regardless of intellectual capacity, then you just might be a predator.

I don't believe that a society that does not openly condemn and criminalizes these actions are doing anything to protect children. You have argued that sometimes the law are ineffective, and I do not disagree. However, I do think the spirit of the law can help reinforce these social values of, you know...not diddling kids. At the very least, I think not openly tolerating such things has gone a long way to avoid normalizing such abuse.

No one is arguing for no protections.


Did you not read the fucking thread and what has been posted previously? Some people are literally arguing lowering the age of consent to 14.

So Traed, I really hate to put the loaded question here, but do you think that a 27 year old male should be allowed, legally or otherwise, to have sex with a 14 year old girl? Do you think you should be able to have sex with a 14 year old person?

I don't know where exactly the lines should be drawn in many cases, but I think 14 is a bit extreme of an age for a legal adult, personally.
removed-userApr 3, 2024 5:18 PM
Apr 3, 2024 8:17 PM
ああああああああ

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Apr 2013
5720
Reply to Noboru
DreamWindow said:
Some of you guys need to realize that calling a child "mature for their age" is actually something pedophiles say when they are grooming children. So the argument of "emotional or mental maturity" is out the fucking window. It doesn't exist. It's not up for debate. And if the kid thinks they are mature for their age -they almost definitely aren't. If you've been a kid or a teenager, you should realize that you were a fucking idiot around that age. Child predation is an act of aggression that almost always leads to mental problems later on in the child's life. The abuser creates a toxic relationship, and attempts to separate the child from the family, because they know that their parents would take action if discovered.
Too many buzzwords. 14 years old are no prepubescent children. We are not talking about ages where even more people would raise eyebrows (11-13, hebephilia) or would find outright shocking (usually 10 or younger, the actual clinical definition), but about ages (14+) where in cultures around the world, the girls have been considered (young) women already.
When it comes to physical and psychological development, girls have an edge over boys. After 14, girls will barely grow any further. Compared to that, guys can have their last growth spurt in their late teens even after the age of 18. With "mature for their age", it can be also just meant that they act polite/nice around the older person.
Under "grooming" can pretty much every love relationship fall that escalates sexually over the course of time. I wonder if you would call how Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip came together as "grooming", since she was just 13 when she fell in love
Not all parents would take actions that's just an emotional appeal here over what you perceive as moral. And last but not least, it depends on the people whether a relationship is toxic and/or abusive because it can very well happen even with two full-fledged adults in their 30s or older

You guys should worry more about cases where primary schoolers or even kindergarteners learn about sexual orientation, gender identity and self-pleasure in the West, because that's the actual vile thing. Or any form of unwanted contact because the culture is either too sexualized or focused on seducing (Japan, Hispanic especially when the girls start dancing at very young ages) or too restrictive (Islamic/Arabic) and then the guys get overly horny because they haven't been raised properly and they haven't been used to see girls bodies from younger ages
Noboru said:
14 years old are no prepubescent children. We are not talking about ages where even more people would raise eyebrows (11-13, hebephilia) or would find outright shocking (usually 10 or younger, the actual clinical definition), but about ages (14+) where in cultures around the world, the girls have been considered (young) women already.


A 14 year old is still a fucking child bro! Far too young to consent to sexual act.

When it comes to physical and psychological development, girls have an edge over boys. After 14, girls will barely grow any further. Compared to that, guys can have their last growth spurt in their late teens even after the age of 18. With "mature for their age", it can be also just meant that they act polite/nice around the older person.


Bullshit, man. Any 14 year old is still developing. Most people don't stop developing until they are in their late 20s. Being "mature for their age" doesn't mean anything. They should still be treated the same as any other. You don't get to just fuck a kid just because they say that they are mature.

Under "grooming" can pretty much every love relationship fall that escalates sexually over the course of time. I wonder if you would call how Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip came together as "grooming", since she was just 13 when she fell in love
Not all parents would take actions that's just an emotional appeal here over what you perceive as moral. And last but not least, it depends on the people whether a relationship is toxic and/or abusive because it can very well happen even with two full-fledged adults in their 30s or older


If they were both kids around the same age, it's a different story. You're trying to muddy the waters here to justify creepy behaviour. If an adult is calling a child "mature for their age" to get with a child, YES that is FUCKING GROOMING and you are a creep if you think otherwise. If the parents do not take action, if an adult is going after their child, they are committing an act of child endangerment. At that point, it becomes a matter of the community to intervene. Bottom line. Most parents, thankfully, understand that 20/30 somethings should not be getting together with their 14 year old. I pray you never have children.

Noboru said:
You guys should worry more about cases where primary schoolers or even kindergarteners learn about sexual orientation, gender identity and self-pleasure in the West, because that's the actual vile thing. Or any form of unwanted contact because the culture is either too sexualized or focused on seducing (Japan, Hispanic especially when the girls start dancing at very young ages) or too restrictive (Islamic/Arabic) and then the guys get overly horny because they haven't been raised properly and they haven't been used to see girls bodies from younger ages


We should worry about both, bro. Children should not be doing anything remotely sexual. Aso what the actual fuck do you mean when you say "they haven't been raised properly" because they haven't been used to seeing young girls' bodies? What the actual fuck?

Good lord, man, it's a problem when the sister fucker has their head on straight more than some of you on this issue. I'm done. This site is a shithole.

Mod Edit: Removed insult
FluffygreygrassApr 4, 2024 11:59 AM

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Apr 4, 2024 2:58 AM

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It's kinda entertaining when @deg threads are escalating.
Apr 4, 2024 3:32 AM

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When you truly think about it, does ANYTHING matter?
Mao said:
If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart!
Apr 4, 2024 3:39 AM

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When you truly think about it, does ANYTHING matter?
@vasipi4946

Nihilist: "No"
Hoper: "Yes"
Apr 4, 2024 7:01 AM

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IAmOdie said:
Forget dating, going with your opposite gender is not allowed, especially if you are a girl, though these girls would find their way to do so discreetly. But there are also the cases where the dating couple tell each of their parents that they are dating, and they approve it. In my personal experience, I have a friend who were dating with such conditions for 10 years straight, only for her to end up marrying someone else whom she dated for not more than 5 months. She told me that the reason was in the last 2-5 years of their relationship, the dude she was dating never made any advances or any possible signs of settling down. Let this be a lesson for us all.
That's quite the interesting information here
Also thanks for the elaborate response. Though what is seen as "revealing" may also depend on what people are used to

deg said:
i remember youre from germany and the age of consent there is 14 now it makes sense
Yes, but with restrictions, sections 176 and 182. But it would be only prosecuted upon request or if the authorities think there would be a special public interest.
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html
I have also posted an example in #34 where a court decided it was okay for a 15 years old to be legally together with a much older adult. So there are precautions, but it doesn't have to come to that and even if, it will be decided on a case by case basis, which I find to be the best approach

DreamWindow said:
A 14 year old is still a fucking child bro! Far too young to consent to sexual acts.

"40. Women are called ladies by men right after they are fourteen. And so when they see that they have nothing else except to go to bed with men, they begin to make themselves up and place all their hopes in that. It is therefore worthwhile to pay attention so that they are aware that they are honored for nothing other than appearing modest and self-respecting."
+
"42. When someone acts badly toward you or speaks badly of you, remember that he does or says it in the belief that it is appropriate for him to do so. Accordingly he cannot follow what appears to you but only what appears to him, so that if things appear badly to him, he is harmed in as much as he has been deceived. For if someone thinks that a true conjunctive proposition is false, the conjunction is not harmed but rather the one who is deceived. Starting from these considerations you will be gentle with the person who abuses you. For you must say on each occasion, "That’s how it seemed to him."

Handbook of Epictetus
Well that's how it seems to you.

DreamWindow said:
If they were both kids around the same age, it's a different story.
No, it's not. On the contrary, it would be a different story if both were prepubescent like 9 or 10 years or if one partner would be 17 and the other just about hitting puberty at 11 or 12. These would be completely different cases from having two people do it that are already at Tanner V (see also), which is usually at 14 or 15 for girls/young women

DreamWindow said:
We should worry about both, bro. Children should not be doing anything remotely sexual. Aso what the actual fuck do you mean when you say "they haven't been raised properly" because they haven't been used to seeing young girls' bodies? What the actual fuck?
"Children" by legal definition are any people under 14 here. So I do agree that those shouldn't be doing anything like that.
I mean what I said. They come from cultures where it's not even normal to see girls in bikini. Compared to that, it's rather normal here to have young children who are clearly below 14 and visibly children be naked in summer like in public swimming pools. No one bats an eye over that here, because we are all used to it. But for someone from a more restrictive culture, even having a more developed teen in shorts could be too stimulating for them, in which case it's a parental failure if they don't manage to teach their sons to treat the girls/women with respect
NoboruApr 4, 2024 7:27 AM
Apr 4, 2024 8:14 AM
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Reply to Noboru
IAmOdie said:
Forget dating, going with your opposite gender is not allowed, especially if you are a girl, though these girls would find their way to do so discreetly. But there are also the cases where the dating couple tell each of their parents that they are dating, and they approve it. In my personal experience, I have a friend who were dating with such conditions for 10 years straight, only for her to end up marrying someone else whom she dated for not more than 5 months. She told me that the reason was in the last 2-5 years of their relationship, the dude she was dating never made any advances or any possible signs of settling down. Let this be a lesson for us all.
That's quite the interesting information here
Also thanks for the elaborate response. Though what is seen as "revealing" may also depend on what people are used to

deg said:
i remember youre from germany and the age of consent there is 14 now it makes sense
Yes, but with restrictions, sections 176 and 182. But it would be only prosecuted upon request or if the authorities think there would be a special public interest.
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html
I have also posted an example in #34 where a court decided it was okay for a 15 years old to be legally together with a much older adult. So there are precautions, but it doesn't have to come to that and even if, it will be decided on a case by case basis, which I find to be the best approach

DreamWindow said:
A 14 year old is still a fucking child bro! Far too young to consent to sexual acts.

"40. Women are called ladies by men right after they are fourteen. And so when they see that they have nothing else except to go to bed with men, they begin to make themselves up and place all their hopes in that. It is therefore worthwhile to pay attention so that they are aware that they are honored for nothing other than appearing modest and self-respecting."
+
"42. When someone acts badly toward you or speaks badly of you, remember that he does or says it in the belief that it is appropriate for him to do so. Accordingly he cannot follow what appears to you but only what appears to him, so that if things appear badly to him, he is harmed in as much as he has been deceived. For if someone thinks that a true conjunctive proposition is false, the conjunction is not harmed but rather the one who is deceived. Starting from these considerations you will be gentle with the person who abuses you. For you must say on each occasion, "That’s how it seemed to him."

Handbook of Epictetus
Well that's how it seems to you.

DreamWindow said:
If they were both kids around the same age, it's a different story.
No, it's not. On the contrary, it would be a different story if both were prepubescent like 9 or 10 years or if one partner would be 17 and the other just about hitting puberty at 11 or 12. These would be completely different cases from having two people do it that are already at Tanner V (see also), which is usually at 14 or 15 for girls/young women

DreamWindow said:
We should worry about both, bro. Children should not be doing anything remotely sexual. Aso what the actual fuck do you mean when you say "they haven't been raised properly" because they haven't been used to seeing young girls' bodies? What the actual fuck?
"Children" by legal definition are any people under 14 here. So I do agree that those shouldn't be doing anything like that.
I mean what I said. They come from cultures where it's not even normal to see girls in bikini. Compared to that, it's rather normal here to have young children who are clearly below 14 and visibly children be naked in summer like in public swimming pools. No one bats an eye over that here, because we are all used to it. But for someone from a more restrictive culture, even having a more developed teen in shorts could be too stimulating for them, in which case it's a parental failure if they don't manage to teach their sons to treat the girls/women with respect
Noboru said:
Well that's how it seems to you.


Excuse me? What the fuck are you talking about? Are you trying to attribute that quote to me or something? You expect that to enlighten me? I read that as "the only purpose of the 14 year old girl is to serve their abuser". That is the worst fucking script you could have possibly chosen, because it just shows how toxic it is to make someone that young into a sexual being. You make yourself look worse the more you pile on this shit.

Noboru said:
No, it's not. On the contrary, it would be a different story if both were prepubescent like 9 or 10 years or if one partner would be 17 and the other just about hitting puberty at 11 or 12. These would be completely different cases from having two people do it that are already at Tanner V (see also), which is usually at 14 or 15 for girls/young women


So you genuinley believe that an adult can and should fuck a 14 year old? And you think that it is actually better than if a teenager close to the same age as them were to be the ones who enter that relationship? How, under any circumstances can this be justified? How the FUCK is it better if a 30 year old man fucks a teenager, then if a teenager fucks a teenager? Are you fucking serious right now?

Noboru said:
"Children" by legal definition are any people under 14 here. So I do agree that those shouldn't be doing anything like that.


NO. A 14 year old is still a child. I don't care what you're countries' legal definition is. In either case, a grown adult should not be fucking around with teenagers period.

Noboru said:
I mean what I said. They come from cultures where it's not even normal to see girls in bikini. Compared to that, it's rather normal here to have young children who are clearly below 14 and visibly children be naked in summer like in public swimming pools. No one bats an eye over that here, because we are all used to it. But for someone from a more restrictive culture, even having a more developed teen in shorts could be too stimulating for them, in which case it's a parental failure if they don't manage to teach their sons to treat the girls/women with respect


Of course you would want to look at naked children.

Zarutaku said:
It's kinda entertaining when @deg threads are escalating.


Maybe if he wouldn't say shit like "the age of consent should be 14" then these pedos wouldn't come out of the woodwork.

Mod Edit: Removed Insult
FluffygreygrassApr 4, 2024 11:21 AM

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Apr 4, 2024 9:02 AM

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DreamWindow said:
Excuse me? What the fuck are you talking about? Are you trying to attribute that quote to me or something?
It means that I cannot change your stance on the matter and how you feel about this. So all that's left to say here is that it is how it seems to you. To me, the case seems to be completely different. The book I've quoted from is btw. a very good read

DreamWindow said:
So you genuinley believe that an adult can and should fuck a 14 year old?
If they are in a commited love relationship, then while it wouldn't be the ideal case, it would be still much better than having two people at the same age but at much earlier Tanner stages do it. I'm not promoting adult-teen relationships, I'm just not condemning those when the younger party is at least 14

DreamWindow said:
NO. A 14 year old is still a child.
Technically, everyone will be a child of their parents. Outside of that, "that is how it seems to you", since I don't think of people that age as little children

edit: @DreamWindow:
So I guess what I want to know, then, to hopefully clear up a bad picture, is why even respond, then, if you aren't advocating for such relationships?
To make a statement that what the laws are and what is seen as moral depends on the person and the culture/country. Also, to be fair, I never stated that all 14 years old are ready for any form of romantic and/or sexual relationship, but so aren't people just because they are 18, 25, 30 or even older. My point is just that they can decide on their own what kinds of relationships they want to have and in the cases they find happiness, wouldn't be against it, even when it's only temporary. Of course, this is provided that the older person treats the younger person respectfully, regardless of sex/gender. I'm fully against people who target people of their preferred sex/gender just because they got a fetish for a specific age group or any other trait. I'm also aware that it's by far not an ideal situation, but I'm also against any form of acting fearful towards any form of age-gap relationship even when the love wouldn't be consummated until much, much later, if at all

I hope this clears everything up and we can end this with "things seem different to each of us"
NoboruApr 4, 2024 12:31 PM
Apr 4, 2024 9:23 AM

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DreamWindow said:
Maybe if he wouldn't say retarded shit like "the age of consent should be 14" then these pedos wouldn't come out of the woodwork.

To be more precise: he said 14-16 because that are the ages of consent for most countries atm (including Canada btw)
Oddly enough most countries with higher age of consent, are seemingly the worst ones for women to live in.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/age-of-consent-by-country
Apr 4, 2024 11:11 AM
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Reply to Zarutaku
DreamWindow said:
Maybe if he wouldn't say retarded shit like "the age of consent should be 14" then these pedos wouldn't come out of the woodwork.

To be more precise: he said 14-16 because that are the ages of consent for most countries atm (including Canada btw)
Oddly enough most countries with higher age of consent, are seemingly the worst ones for women to live in.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/age-of-consent-by-country
@Zarutaku

Nobody in Canada thinks it's acceptable for under 18s to be in a relationship with an adult. Quite the contrary, you'd probably get beaten up if you say shit like that, rightfully so. The laws on the book are merely an abstraction -not reflective of the actual culture. 14 is still way too fucking young. Bottom line. Especially if we are talking about an adult in the relationship.

If by that you mean places like Saudi Arabia yes, because they are oppressive regimes... that's not what we are talking about. Nor is the problem the law -it's the culture. This kind of wonk shit is so irritating. It just distracts from the actual issue, which is don't diddle kids.


@Noburu
Noboru said:
If they are in a commited love relationship, then while it wouldn't be the ideal case, it would be still much better than having two people at the same age but at much earlier Tanner stages do it. I'm not promoting adult-teen relationships, I'm just not condemning those when the younger party is at least 14


Look, I don't know if you are just playing devil's advocate, really bad at social cues or something, or, hell, maybe I'm the autist in this situation, i don't know. I just don't want to walk away from this conversation with a bad outlook on you or humanity. I think it's awful to even entertain such a relationship. You say that you are not promoting that kind of relationship, but you seem to keep playing devil's advocate for it, and the fact that you even respond to me and defend it so adamantly just puts a really bad taste in my mouth.

So I guess what I want to know, then, to hopefully clear up a bad picture, is why even respond, then, if you aren't advocating for such relationships?

Edit: Jeez literally seconds before the lock. Wow.
DreamWindowApr 4, 2024 11:22 AM

This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes
Apr 4, 2024 11:16 AM
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Thread Cleaned and locked for being a controversial topic.

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