| hmm Could it because Shounen as a genre never really grown for the past 3 decades or so since its popularity rise in the 1980s. The same concept, identical plot, identical character progression or lack thereof and over saturation/over exposure. It feels like the new shounen animes have already been watched before you could even finish it. Also the reality that Shounen as a genre is aimed at Kids and those who grew with Shounen are now adults and finds it childish and repulsive. I too started from the 90s and grew tired of Shounens. |
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| I can only speak for myself, it's not that I suddenly hate shonen anime in recent years, it's just that most anime I hate are shonen anime specially fighting ones. There are many reasons why I hate it, to me they feel very shallow with either forced character developments or no developments at all. I don't like the design, I don't like the power system (or whatever you call it), the premise is too generic (family member killed, wanting to be the strongest/number 1, searching for treasure). There are shonen anime I like, for one I like Sket Dance. Now I think people should direct their hatred toward isekai stuff. That I can support you for doing. |
"Nobody could laugh at someone who's trying their hardest" -Machio- |
| Its simply because of their toxic part of the fanbases. It is what it is. The target demographic are young teenage boys afterall. |
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| > Popular anime genre (battle shonen) exists > Wannabe-different mfs like "artistic" stuff > Popular stuff isn't that artistic > ihateitsoitmustbeshit.jpg |
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| Because it's media for teenage boys, and anyone who isn't a teenage boy might think that it's written like it's for teenage boys. Shounen is in fact so popular to hate that on this site 22 out of the top 50 anime are shounen anime. And more specifically out of the top 25 anime, 14 are shounen anime. |
KumiveneellaMay 23, 2023 7:45 PM
DigiCat said: salarx said: If those show become popular among them, they aren't normies anymore. But statistically, a 5 year is going to enjoy Doraemon more than Violet Evergarden or Madoka Magica. How a kid is gonna enjoy or relate to slice of life when they haven't even experienced real life yet? Mature themes like depression and death will go above their head (unless their life is depressing already, which is strange and cruel for a 5 year old). When Violet Evergarden becomes more popular among 5yo than Doraemon, I'll write an official apology letter to an Shonen fans Ah, so you really do have no idea what you're talking about 1) Doraemon is Kodomo, not Shounen, so an even younger demographic 2) Although more rare, there are Kodomon shows out there which do deal with complex and darker topics and do a great job telling these stories, they of course also do so in a way that's easier for kids to understand And to alswer your question "how is a kid gonna enjoy or relate to a slice of life when they haven't even experienced real life yet?", guess what? You don't have to relate to or understand every aspect of a show to be able to enjoy it, you can like it for the story, the comedy, the characters, heck even relate to a character's personality, you don't have to be in the exact same situation or be the exact same age as a character to share personality traits Ofcourse things are not set in stones. Some shows stand out in their genre, and some might even stand out in the boundaries of their target demographic. But since the starting of my thread, I've clearly focused on the word 'average'. What you say is a rare example, which doesn't usually happen. Even if it happens, it's because it's intended that way. It doesn't usually happen by accident, so most probably the show is marketed to one demographic or genre to deceived the viewers for an even bigger surprise. So coming back to my original point, Shonen is the largest anime demographic, and those kids on average are the most edgy and loud mouthed. That doesn't mean everyone is like that, some kids are more mature than their age, and some adults are immature (manchildren). But if you talk about the average population out there, they are normies who consume normies content. Even if they watch something above average, they are gonna get average out of it, and probably miss the whole freaking point. They might enjoy it somewhat, or end up rating it low because it didn't meet their expectations, or bored them, because they missed the whole freaking point. |
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RobertBobert said: yes, it’s reasonable and deserved…Tendo_GM said: But is this reasonable? For example, I am annoyed by yuri fans because of their twisted mentality, but is it justified if it makes me hate yuri in general? Not to mention that I actually see hatred towards shonen fans more than anything from them.It’s because Shonen fans are the worst of the worst and all the hate the shonen anime get is actually targeted at them |
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| Back in the days when Big 3 was still the thing, they had plenty of fans but also plenty of haters. I think often fans of one title would attack fans of the other and. Most likely it is started with Bleach fans attacking Naruto fans because they were salty that Naruto is more popular that Bleach. Thus came Big 3 flame wars and name calling of narutards, bleachtards and piecetards. Then Naruto and Bleach ended so flame warriors lost anything to defend. However they did not lost anything to hate as new shows such as FMAB, AoT, MHA, Boruto and Demon Slayer had all the flaws of the old Big 3 but few of what made them appealing in the first place. To make matter worse for Naruto fans, its spinoff sequel, Boruto (Naruto next generation) is mcuh worse than original Naruto which contributes to overall negative view on current era battle shonen. So not older and salty old fans keep attacking current shows as stupid and not as good as Big 3 were back in the days. Kind of like boomers like to defend their hippy ages and worldviews from back then even if other demographics think that hippies and all their hippy greenwash are retarded. I would say if you were not watching Naruto, Bleach or One Piece back in 2006 you will not understand. Not to mention old fans are now older age wise. So by now shonen and shoujou are outside their age bracket. There are for those younger than 29 (teen and young adult (YA) demographic in western terms). They are simply too silly for a full grown adult, unlike Seinen or Josei. Kind of like Teletubbies are too silly for 13+ teens. So it is only natural for them to progress to older shows of Seinen and Josei. Still as Millennial I would say that Big 3 is better than current generation of battle shonen, because back then sky was bluer, grass was greener and I was younger if for no other reason. |
EmperorThorMay 24, 2023 1:33 AM
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ForgotEyeWasHere said: You sound like it was meant to be a derogatory parody when the author is a big fan of the genre and even wrote the equally iconic Mob Psycho afterwards. With just as many shonen tropes.RobertBobert said: This can be said about any genre, not just the most popular ones. But do you really feel the need to tell me about the meaning of the term and "fake anime fans" after being registered here a couple of months ago? I don't think you need to be the second Gigguk to be considered a "true" anime fan. I'm specifically talking about people who ONLY watch the most popular battle shounen like the ones mentioned and My Hero Academia, JoJo and One Punch Man, and refuse to watch anything else. There is no problem with watching battle shounen, as long as you also watch some other anime too. Also I've watched anime for years before registering here, but didn't think I needed to make an account here because I thought it wouldn't be a problem if I didn't have an anime list. I also don't think you have to watch a million anime to be a true fan, but you should have some variety in what you watch, and also not have a history of bashing anime and its fans like many new fans do. DigiCat said: I was really impressed by how many people here non-ironically wrote things like "baby stuff is stupid, I'm too cool as an adult to love it".RobertBobert said: Can anyone explain to me when and why Western fans went from literally worshiping shonen to using any loophole to attack shonen and its fans? I understand that all things have their fans and their haters, but for the last year or two, it seems to me more and more that hatred of shonen is becoming somehow excessive or even insane. To the point where I see normies attacking shonen just to seem like cool anime fans. For example, a couple of people used "shonen MC" quite seriously when talking to me with the expectation that I would understand it as a derogatory term without any problems. Can anyone explain this? Because they want to look mature by trashing on a genre/demographic targeted towards kids/teens, ironically, this just makes them look like immature children Case in point this comment right here vv salarx said: Because children (and manchildren) are target demographic for these (shonen) shows. These fans are the main reason we have score manipulation. Also when I watch an anime, I don't like to feed good, I like to feel like shit. Shonen Anime usually paint a lie, show us what we want to see and believe. I'd prefer a lie as a joke, but no presented as something serious. I prefer my soul being crushed. Something that changes my psychology, and / or leaves me bawling. Something that makes me question my beliefs and reality, something that changes my life by giving me depression, followed by some amount of hope. I only watch Shonen if it has god tier animation, or a bad (realistic) ending. |
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BadSenpai47 said: This month's signup with 40+ shows is telling me how one of the biggest phenomena in the industry hasn't evolved in 30 years. Lol, ok, fine. I won’t be surprised that if I ask you to argue your thesis in detail, you will simply try to give me the laws of the genre as a cliché, because people with such a point of view simply do not understand the difference between thishmm Could it because Shounen as a genre never really grown for the past 3 decades or so since its popularity rise in the 1980s. The same concept, identical plot, identical character progression or lack thereof and over saturation/over exposure. It feels like the new shounen animes have already been watched before you could even finish it. Also the reality that Shounen as a genre is aimed at Kids and those who grew with Shounen are now adults and finds it childish and repulsive. I too started from the 90s and grew tired of Shounens. |
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RobertBobert said: BadSenpai47 said: This month's signup with 40+ shows is telling me how one of the biggest phenomena in the industry hasn't evolved in 30 years. Lol, ok, fine. I won’t be surprised that if I ask you to argue your thesis in detail, you will simply try to give me the laws of the genre as a cliché, because people with such a point of view simply do not understand the difference between thishmm Could it because Shounen as a genre never really grown for the past 3 decades or so since its popularity rise in the 1980s. The same concept, identical plot, identical character progression or lack thereof and over saturation/over exposure. It feels like the new shounen animes have already been watched before you could even finish it. Also the reality that Shounen as a genre is aimed at Kids and those who grew with Shounen are now adults and finds it childish and repulsive. I too started from the 90s and grew tired of Shounens. The fundamental foundation of shounen remains the same or almost the same for the last few decades. How many plots have deviated from "The overpowered guy that life f@cked over and fighting to change this" or "a guy who is virtually weak f@cked by life and fights for it" or maybe "just beihg the best and strongest or finding a certain treasure" etc etc This is pretty much common and pretty much what the classic shounen animes revolve around. There might be some niche shounen animes that had found its way to be unique but yall rarely see one or have been buried in obscurity. |
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BadSenpai47 said: So you literally tried to sell me the fundamentals of the genre as its clichés and stagnation? Even after I directly ridiculed it beforehand? I do not even know what to say. It's like saying that all yuri look alike because they're all about lesbians, even after someone jokes about it.RobertBobert said: This month's signup with 40+ shows is telling me how one of the biggest phenomena in the industry hasn't evolved in 30 years. Lol, ok, fine. I won’t be surprised that if I ask you to argue your thesis in detail, you will simply try to give me the laws of the genre as a cliché, because people with such a point of view simply do not understand the difference between this The fundamental foundation of shounen remains the same or almost the same for the last few decades. How many plots have deviated from "The overpowered guy that life f@cked over and fighting to change this" or "a guy who is virtually weak f@cked by life and fights for it" or maybe "just beihg the best and strongest or finding a certain treasure" etc etc This is pretty much common and pretty much what the classic shounen animes revolve around. There might be some niche shounen animes that had found its way to be unique but yall rarely see one or have been buried in obscurity. |
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RobertBobert said: BadSenpai47 said: So you literally tried to sell me the fundamentals of the genre as its clichés and stagnation? Even after I directly ridiculed it beforehand? I do not even know what to say. It's like saying that all yuri look alike because they're all about lesbians, even after someone jokes about it.The fundamental foundation of shounen remains the same or almost the same for the last few decades. How many plots have deviated from "The overpowered guy that life f@cked over and fighting to change this" or "a guy who is virtually weak f@cked by life and fights for it" or maybe "just beihg the best and strongest or finding a certain treasure" etc etc This is pretty much common and pretty much what the classic shounen animes revolve around. There might be some niche shounen animes that had found its way to be unique but yall rarely see one or have been buried in obscurity. You can put it any way you want but this is the fundamental problem of the creative stagnation/drought/likelihood of battle shounen for a long time now. Creative storytelling has been severely lacking on Shounen these days. Some will even admit that they only enjoy this via the fight scenes, the other elements of thhe plot and not really thinking one way or another when it comes storytelling. The difference with the Yuri comparison is "that its nature it itself" - what's the problem is "creative story telling". That's why you cant really make a comparison into something inherently changeable whereas one that is not. A Yuri being lesbian are unchangeable - The plot is changeable. |
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BadSenpai47 said: You continue to pointlessly repeat the same thesis and it seems that you sincerely do not understand my irony about this. Further conversation is meaningless.RobertBobert said: So you literally tried to sell me the fundamentals of the genre as its clichés and stagnation? Even after I directly ridiculed it beforehand? I do not even know what to say. It's like saying that all yuri look alike because they're all about lesbians, even after someone jokes about it. You can put it any way you want but this is the fundamental problem of the creative stagnation/drought/likelihood of battle shounen for a long time now. Creative storytelling has been severely lacking on Shounen these days. Some will even admit that they only enjoy this via the fight scenes, the other elements of thhe plot and not really thinking one way or another when it comes storytelling. The difference with the Yuri comparison is "that is nature it itself" - what's the problem is "creative story telling". Thats why you cant really make a comparison into something inherently changeable whereas one that is not. |
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RobertBobert said: BadSenpai47 said: You continue to pointlessly repeat the same thesis and it seems that you sincerely do not understand my irony about this. Further conversation is meaningless.You can put it any way you want but this is the fundamental problem of the creative stagnation/drought/likelihood of battle shounen for a long time now. Creative storytelling has been severely lacking on Shounen these days. Some will even admit that they only enjoy this via the fight scenes, the other elements of thhe plot and not really thinking one way or another when it comes storytelling. The difference with the Yuri comparison is "that is nature it itself" - what's the problem is "creative story telling". Thats why you cant really make a comparison into something inherently changeable whereas one that is not. Because you tried to making a point between an "Orange" and a "Apple" and make a comparative narrative against it. Calling that they are same. Creative Plot and Storytelling needs to evolve in the shounen genre. This has stayed for decades now. |
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BadSenpai47 said: No, because I don't take abstract complaints seriously from ignorant people who can't even tell the basics of the genre from the cliches. It's really like you're accusing yuri of having lesbian characters lol. You don't even realize that shonen literally started as a genre decades ago.RobertBobert said: You continue to pointlessly repeat the same thesis and it seems that you sincerely do not understand my irony about this. Further conversation is meaningless. Because you tried to making a point between an "Orange" and a "Apple" and make a comparative narrative against it. Calling that they are same. Creative Plot and Storytelling needs to evolve in the shounen genre. This has stayed for decades now. |
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| I thought a little bit and figured out why old Big 3 era shounen were better than current stuff. Naruto was a proper tragedy, especially pre-Shippuden Bleach was masculinity galore. OP, while was often silly, still had elements of proper tragedy here and there. Naruto especially had a very well written relatable protagonists that were actually like the young people we were back then. People would actually have user picks of Sasuke, Sakura, Hinata, Garra, Itachi and Pain because they could relate to these guys. Show was sympathetic to young people and their struggles. They portray our Millennial generation really well, reflect our feelings and moods. They were like us, not what out parents wanted us to be. Naruto, Sasuke, Garra, Itachi and Nagato were all victims of circumstances as well as the system around them, that wanted to use them and then treated them poorly as things did not worked out as their elders expected them to. Naruto complained about what their older leaders make them do as well as all the BS Konoha and the world used to have. He also wanted to become Hokage and change Konoha, change the world. Minato just left Kyuubi in him for the same reasons, 3rd Kazekage placed Ichibi in Garra (see Garra paragraph). That left Naruto to grow up as reviled by the village orphan. Sasuke was absorbed in his hatred and desire to take revenge on his brother for killing his parents and subjecting him to a harder life. Sasuke was also jealous of Itachi as his parents clearly paid more attention to Itachi. He is strong and talented ninja, but that often causes him trouble as it attracts to him all sort of evil people who are all after the vaunted Uchiha's Sharingan. Itachi himself was too overburdened by all that workload and pressure his parents and the rest of the clan make him do 'for the sake of the clan'. Eventually he snapped and just killed them all with exception of his younger brother, who he was very found of for some reason. May be because he was not like the rest of the Uchihas. Tobi later retconned it in Shippuden, but original story strongly hinted that was the actual reason. I trust it more than that lying Tobi. Garra was made jinchuriki so that village can have more firepower compare to neighbors, that made people hate him for no real fault of his own. Eventually even his parents decided to kill him. His very caretaker wanted to take him down. Nagato's parents were killed in war between 3 great nations that spilled into Amegakure for no reason other that it borders all three. From there on he struggled to survive and probably would have died of starvation if not for Yahiko and Konan. Jiraiya did took some interest in three of them, but eventually left them to survive on their own. As powers of the original Akatsuki grew, Hanzo the Salamander grow worried that Akatsuki will eventually overthrow him and become new government of Amegakure. He and Danzo of the Konoha conspired and lured Yahiko and Nagato into a trap in order to eliminate them. Yahiko died in a trap but Nagato and Konan managed to escape. After a while Nagato (now Pain) indeed overthrew Hanzo and became a new power in Amegakure. Then he went on to collect tailed beasts and use them to change the world. In contrast modern battle shounen is farce rather than tragedy. Boruto tries to be new Naruto, it is somewhat of an official sequel. Boruto is son of Naruto, but he is more of an equivalent of Konohamaru than Naruto of the original. The only difference is that Kono was a grandson of the 3rd Hokage and Boruto is son of Naruto who is Hokage in Boruto. He has none of hardships and tragedy of the original Naruto, as privileged son of Hokage he has nothing better to do than to make stupid pranks to get attention. Naruto would never be that popular if that was all there was to Naruto himself. Even more seriously looking Demon Slayer and AoT are rather farcical. Eren picks fights with just everyone even when it is obvious they going to beat him. He also volunteers to join a suicide squad to fight titans on their own turf. None of the Naruto characters would go for an obvious suicidal self-harming move. They often end up in such situation but only because their intel was wrong and enemy is much stronger than what they anticipated. Tazuna told Hokage that there are some non-ninja bandits after him, not a S-rank missing-nin. Orochmaru was clearly not of Genin rank so he should not have been among the participants of Chuunin exam. Demon Slayer has goofy trio for a main cast. Plus Tanjiro is a kind of teacher/parent favorite pet kid. I did not watch MHA, but it does not look promising at all. |
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RobertBobert said: BadSenpai47 said: No, because I don't take abstract complaints seriously from ignorant people who can't even tell the basics of the genre from the cliches. It's really like you're accusing yuri of having lesbian characters lol. You don't even realize that shonen literally started as a genre decades ago.Because you tried to making a point between an "Orange" and a "Apple" and make a comparative narrative against it. Calling that they are same. Creative Plot and Storytelling needs to evolve in the shounen genre. This has stayed for decades now. Yeah because you don't even know the fundamentals of the Genre "Shounen" - Shounen is about "Action" and "Fights" or "Battle" that is equals to Yuri being lesbians. That is why its called "battle shounen". Not the plot of which it is. I can tell you some plot that is actually shounen but have deviated from the usual plot of shounens. One is "Sword Art Online" and the likes. See, why you are confusing a genre classifier and its own plot. A shounen anime doesn't need to use this tropes to be called a shounen - creative storytelling and plots are never considered as a genre classifier. |
BadSenpaiMay 24, 2023 2:52 AM
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| Non-ironic pointing out that plot is not important in shonen because the genre doesn't specify plot in premise (with a literal misunderstanding that plot is a matter of course and that neither genre specifies plot as premise), followed by an equally un-ironic reference on SAO as on shonen. Please remind me why I should not take your opinion as ignorant and take it seriously? At the moment, you only convince me more and more that you absolutely do not own the topic of conversation and only speak clever words, the meaning of which you do not understand. |
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| "Western fans" huh? Good for me i'm from the east. |
RobertBobert said: Non-ironic pointing out that plot is not important in shonen because the genre doesn't specify plot in premise (with a literal misunderstanding that plot is a matter of course and that neither genre specifies plot as premise), followed by an equally un-ironic reference on SAO as on shonen. Please remind me why I should not take your opinion as ignorant and take it seriously? At the moment, you only convince me more and more that you absolutely do not own the topic of conversation and only speak clever words, the meaning of which you do not understand. Sure, sure.. I thought that "further discussion with me is meaningless" but here you are, cant control yourself to reply and quote my reply. I am so privileged for you to kept wasting your time with me. lol.. Thanks. lol Anyway I dont hate shounens I just dont watch it anymore due to this same reason. |
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BadSenpai47 said: I love when people continue to bait me into a pointless argument, but at the same time accuse me of continuing this. Watch whatever you want, just don't waste my time on ignorant things please. There is too much of this in my life.RobertBobert said: Non-ironic pointing out that plot is not important in shonen because the genre doesn't specify plot in premise (with a literal misunderstanding that plot is a matter of course and that neither genre specifies plot as premise), followed by an equally un-ironic reference on SAO as on shonen. Please remind me why I should not take your opinion as ignorant and take it seriously? At the moment, you only convince me more and more that you absolutely do not own the topic of conversation and only speak clever words, the meaning of which you do not understand. Sure, sure.. I thought that "further discussion with me is meaningless" but here you are, cant control yourself to reply and quote my reply. I am so privileged for you to kept wasting your time with me. lol.. Thanks. lol Anyway I dont hate shounens I just dont watch it anymore due to this same reason. |
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RobertBobert said: BadSenpai47 said: I love when people continue to bait me into a pointless argument, but at the same time accuse me of continuing this. Watch whatever you want, just don't waste my time on ignorant things please. There is too much of this in my life.Sure, sure.. I thought that "further discussion with me is meaningless" but here you are, cant control yourself to reply and quote my reply. I am so privileged for you to kept wasting your time with me. lol.. Thanks. lol Anyway I dont hate shounens I just dont watch it anymore due to this same reason. No one is wasting your time. You do it yourself. Getting your pants wet due to some people's opinion regarding your hobbies. Being an anime fan is still considered a "derogatory" term. I can see that you are an anime fan for so long already but still finding things to complain in this matter. Maybe grew some balls and let it go man. Even in Japan, Otakus and Weebs are still a bad classification for people to belong to. You should have been used by now. Just being an anime, people will call you "Childish" nor "Shut in" or a "Neet".. That is still a reality happening everywhere else. |
BadSenpaiMay 24, 2023 3:14 AM
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BadSenpai47 said: I'm sorry, but right now you're continuing to do exactly what I was talking about. Deliberately getting my attention and blaming myself for it.RobertBobert said: I love when people continue to bait me into a pointless argument, but at the same time accuse me of continuing this. Watch whatever you want, just don't waste my time on ignorant things please. There is too much of this in my life. No one is wasting your time. You do it yourself. Getting your pants wet due to some people's opinion regarding your hobbies. Being an anime fan is still considered a "derogatory" term. I can see that you are an anime fan for so long already but still finding things to complain in this matter. Maybe grew some balls and let it go man. Even in Japan, Otakus and Weebs are still a bad classification for people to belong to. You should have been used by now. |
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RobertBobert said: BadSenpai47 said: I'm sorry, but right now you're continuing to do exactly what I was talking about. Deliberately getting my attention and blaming myself for it.No one is wasting your time. You do it yourself. Getting your pants wet due to some people's opinion regarding your hobbies. Being an anime fan is still considered a "derogatory" term. I can see that you are an anime fan for so long already but still finding things to complain in this matter. Maybe grew some balls and let it go man. Even in Japan, Otakus and Weebs are still a bad classification for people to belong to. You should have been used by now. Because it appears you are being "oblivious" to the reality that being an anime fan alone is a "taboo" to the society. Then complains on why this is happening. I too is still hiding my anime hobby to some people and some friends specially in my workplace. Maybe try to grew some balls and never care about another's opinion. As someone who is gamer first before anime - I already accepted the reality that people wont like me for my hobbies. Even had a "girlfriend" who axed me just because I am a gamer. |
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BadSenpai47 said: Okay, fine, great. Are you sure you have to tell me all this?RobertBobert said: I'm sorry, but right now you're continuing to do exactly what I was talking about. Deliberately getting my attention and blaming myself for it. Because it appears you are being "oblivious" to the reality that being an anime fan alone is a "taboo" to the society. Then complains on why this is happening. I too is still hiding my anime hobby to some people and some friends specially in my workplace. Maybe try to grew some balls and never care about another's opinion. As someone who is gamer first before anime - I already accepted the reality that people wont like me for my hobbies. Even had a "girlfriend" who axed me just because I am a gamer. |
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| Some of these are contradictory lmao |
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RobertBobert said: BadSenpai47 said: Okay, fine, great. Are you sure you have to tell me all this?Because it appears you are being "oblivious" to the reality that being an anime fan alone is a "taboo" to the society. Then complains on why this is happening. I too is still hiding my anime hobby to some people and some friends specially in my workplace. Maybe try to grew some balls and never care about another's opinion. As someone who is gamer first before anime - I already accepted the reality that people wont like me for my hobbies. Even had a "girlfriend" who axed me just because I am a gamer. Yeah I told you that because I feel privileged for you to talk to me despite your disdain for it. Don't worry I already had a much better girlfriend. Hopefully you find peace in this matter and stop being a 6 year old kid because some kid offended you for your animes. |
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| - If something you dislike gets talked about constantly, it's going to annoy you more - Desire to feel smarter, different from mindless crowd - Fans of popular shonen praise them to heavens, annoying those that don't share that opinion |
MarkVijetMay 24, 2023 5:27 AM
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BadSenpai47 said: Do you seriously not understand how arrogant and rude your attempts to lecture me for words that I did not express at all look like?RobertBobert said: Okay, fine, great. Are you sure you have to tell me all this? Yeah I told you that because I feel privileged for you to talk to me despite your disdain for it. Don't worry I already had a much better girlfriend. Hopefully you find peace in this matter and stop being a 6 year old kid because some kid offended you for your animes. MarkVijet said: I still don't understand why this is a problem. Because for the second year the most hyped shows are seinen.- If something you dislike gets talked about constantly, it's going to annoy you more - Desire to feel smarter, different from mindless crowd - Fans are popular shonen praise them to heavens, annoying those that don't share that opinion |
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| You're talking about the typical battle shounen, right? I don't think people suddenly hate it; opinions have always been varied. There will always be people who like it and people who don't. |
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Purple_Gh0st24 said: I don't remember people always complaining about shonen fans or shonen MCs in the past. Not to mention the fact that a significant part of the complainers themselves started watching anime only yesterday and are in the whole audience of this.You're talking about the typical battle shounen, right? I don't think people suddenly hate it; opinions have always been varied. There will always be people who like it and people who don't. |
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RobertBobert said: Purple_Gh0st24 said: I don't remember people always complaining about shonen fans or shonen MCs in the past. Not to mention the fact that a significant part of the complainers themselves started watching anime only yesterday and are in the whole audience of this.You're talking about the typical battle shounen, right? I don't think people suddenly hate it; opinions have always been varied. There will always be people who like it and people who don't. Hmm, I can't speak from experience here because I wasn't an active anime fan back in the 2000s. If I had to guess, I'd think there always were people who disliked battle shounen, but you just didn't see them. It was probably just outside of your circle. As for some of the more recent complaints coming from newer anime fans, I guess they're just going by what they've heard from older fans? It isn't fair if they haven't given it a try themselves (it reminds me of all the people who used to complain about CGDCT/moe even though they didn't watch it). |
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Purple_Gh0st24 said: You are probably confusing complaints about shows like Naruto or Bleach and their fans with complaints about shonens themselves.RobertBobert said: I don't remember people always complaining about shonen fans or shonen MCs in the past. Not to mention the fact that a significant part of the complainers themselves started watching anime only yesterday and are in the whole audience of this. Hmm, I can't speak from experience here because I wasn't an active anime fan back in the 2000s. If I had to guess, I'd think there always were people who disliked battle shounen, but you just didn't see them. It was probably just outside of your circle. As for some of the more recent complaints coming from newer anime fans, I guess they're just going by what they've heard from older fans? It isn't fair if they haven't given it a try themselves (it reminds me of all the people who used to complain about CGDCT/moe even though they didn't watch it). |
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RobertBobert said: Like Oshi no Ko? That too gets hated on for being to popular and having too high of a rating BadSenpai47 said: Do you seriously not understand how arrogant and rude your attempts to lecture me for words that I did not express at all look like?Yeah I told you that because I feel privileged for you to talk to me despite your disdain for it. Don't worry I already had a much better girlfriend. Hopefully you find peace in this matter and stop being a 6 year old kid because some kid offended you for your animes. MarkVijet said: I still don't understand why this is a problem. Because for the second year the most hyped shows are seinen.- If something you dislike gets talked about constantly, it's going to annoy you more - Desire to feel smarter, different from mindless crowd - Fans are popular shonen praise them to heavens, annoying those that don't share that opinion |
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| I dunno. Maybe fandoms like the AOT, BNHA or OP ones can give you the answer. |
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MarkVijet said: Including. A lot of people don't understand what shonen is in general and that many non-shonen shows still use shonen tropes as generic to anime, so they keep complaining while many of these shows aren't even shonen.RobertBobert said: Like Oshi no Ko? That too gets hated on for being to popular and having too high of a rating Do you seriously not understand how arrogant and rude your attempts to lecture me for words that I did not express at all look like? I still don't understand why this is a problem. Because for the second year the most hyped shows are seinen. |
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RomanceEnjoyer48 said: I asked. They told me that hating the show because you don't like the fans is stupid and pointless. Not to mention, One-Punch isn't even shonen.I dunno. Maybe fandoms like the AOT, BNHA or OP ones can give you the answer. |
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RobertBobert said: OP is for One Piece just in case. And if the anime has a despicable fandom, naturally people will get a bad impression about it. Now, if you mean in terms of writing, many nekketsu are very poor in that aspect imo.RomanceEnjoyer48 said: I asked. They told me that hating the show because you don't like the fans is stupid and pointless. Not to mention, One-Punch isn't even shonen.I dunno. Maybe fandoms like the AOT, BNHA or OP ones can give you the answer. |
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RomanceEnjoyer48 said: And it's still stupid. Because we are not talking about some simple things like "I don't like Naruto, this show has toxic fans", but about very aggressive and toxic hatred, which, as you yourself say, comes from hatred towards the fans, and not towards the shows themselves as such.RobertBobert said: OP is for One Piece just in case. And if the anime has a despicable fandom, naturally people will get a bad impression about it. Now, if you mean in terms of writing, many nekketsu are very poor in that aspect imo.I asked. They told me that hating the show because you don't like the fans is stupid and pointless. Not to mention, One-Punch isn't even shonen. |
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Kollmk said: Sorry, I don't talk to blank pages that were created to anonymously bait me into an argument with someone who doesn't have enough balls to post from a real account.RobertBobert said: Not to mention, One-Punch isn't even shonen. It is according to Viz Media's Weekly Shonen Jump. It's originally a webcomic without any demographics. |
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salarx said: Ofcourse things are not set in stones. Some shows stand out in their genre, and some might even stand out in the boundaries of their target demographic. But since the starting of my thread, I've clearly focused on the word 'average'. What you say is a rare example, which doesn't usually happen. Even if it happens, it's because it's intended that way. It doesn't usually happen by accident, so most probably the show is marketed to one demographic or genre to deceived the viewers for an even bigger surprise. So coming back to my original point, Shonen is the largest anime demographic, and those kids on average are the most edgy and loud mouthed. That doesn't mean everyone is like that, some kids are more mature than their age, and some adults are immature (manchildren). But if you talk about the average population out there, they are normies who consume normies content. Even if they watch something above average, they are gonna get average out of it, and probably miss the whole freaking point. They might enjoy it somewhat, or end up rating it low because it didn't meet their expectations, or bored them, because they missed the whole freaking point You do realize that "average" is the majority of any genre/demographic, not only Shounen or Kodomo, right? And the whole last paragraph of your statement, they might enjoy it somewhat, rate it low, get bored, these things are entirely subjective and in no way corraleted with the overall quality of a show, you could have the highest quality of storytelling, character developement, ecc., but if that specific story or characters don't interest someone, all of that is not going to matter, yet you specifically point out not liking above avaerage shows as being "because they missed the whole freaking point" aka calling people who don't enjoy these shows at full stupid, such condecsending words only make you look like the immature manchild you call others |
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DigiCat said: You do realize that "average" is the majority of any genre/demographic, not only Shounen or Kodomo, right? And the whole last paragraph of your statement, they might enjoy it somewhat, rate it low, get bored, these things are entirely subjective and in no way corraleted with the overall quality of a show, you could have the highest quality of storytelling, character developement, ecc., but if that specific story or characters don't interest someone, all of that is not going to matter, yet you specifically point out not liking above avaerage shows as being "because they missed the whole freaking point" aka calling people who don't enjoy these shows at full stupid, such condecsending words only make you look like the immature manchild you call others Yes, but kids and small kids make up the majority (0-24 yo have 70% share). Coincidently, they are also the most active on internet. So their majority is not the same numbers as rest of 30%. Also, there's a difference between not relating to story / characters vs not been able to comprehend the them. For example, You might agree or disagree with a poet, but only after understanding what the poet wanted to say. Just reading the lines, misinterpreting, or saying I didn't get it, hence the poet was a bad writer doesn't make you intellectual. That's why literature is taught in school, and even if one didn't go to school, they should acknowledge they don't get it, atleast try to get it, or just move on, before giving biased ultimatums on subject. It's ok to have wrong opinion and share them and be corrected, but immature to rate the shows and give your expert opinion as reviews. |
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salarx said: Yes, but kids and small kids make up the majority (0-24 yo have 70% share). Coincidently, they are also the most active on internet. So their majority is not the same numbers as rest of 30%. Also, there's a difference between not relating to story / characters vs not been able to comprehend the them. For example, You might agree or disagree with a poet, but only after understanding what the poet wanted to say. Just reading the lines, misinterpreting, or saying I didn't get it, hence the poet was a bad writer doesn't make you intellectual. That's why literature is taught in school, and even if one didn't go to school, they should acknowledge they don't get it, atleast try to get it, or just move on, before giving biased ultimatums on subject. It's ok to have wrong opinion and share them and be corrected, but immature to rate the shows and give your expert opinion as reviews Wrong opinions... correcting people's opinions... someone doesn't know the difference between opinions and facts it seems It's immature to rate shows, give your personal opinion, or review them, right... Biased ultimatums, like what you're giving to shounen anime? |
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Kustogg said: How is this different from other popular shows? Not to mention the fact that you again confuse clichés and the laws of the genre as such. Really worth considering complaining that every yuri show is about lesbian lol.Repetitive stories and tropes that haven't evolved or changed in years. I like shounen, but the new zoomer brand of shounen is so bland. There's always a wimpy MC that gains a new power unexpectedly, There's always a school or training spot where they learn their powers by fighting and making friends with other people with those powers, the villains usually have very little goals outside of world domination for some reason or another. I've watched countless anime with these settings now and they just start to blend and merge together in my brain. Some stand out that go against the mold like Mob Psycho which parodies a lot of these cliches and tropes while also having a very strong emphasis on its characters and their growth. There's no world building or any sort of creativity anymore, its just Tokyo, Japan, modern day. its just the same tropes and cliches over and over. The new Isekai genre |
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DigiCat said: From the way people here keep attacking the genre's foundations under the guise of critiquing clichés or throwing out endless general complaints without details, I get the impression that people are just biased against the genre itself, and everything else is an excuse after the fact. I mean, seriously, blaming shonen for the power of friendship and rising above yourself to defeat a powerful enemy? Explain how this is different from complaining that every yuri anime is about lesbians or that all idol anime is musical?salarx said: Yes, but kids and small kids make up the majority (0-24 yo have 70% share). Coincidently, they are also the most active on internet. So their majority is not the same numbers as rest of 30%. Also, there's a difference between not relating to story / characters vs not been able to comprehend the them. For example, You might agree or disagree with a poet, but only after understanding what the poet wanted to say. Just reading the lines, misinterpreting, or saying I didn't get it, hence the poet was a bad writer doesn't make you intellectual. That's why literature is taught in school, and even if one didn't go to school, they should acknowledge they don't get it, atleast try to get it, or just move on, before giving biased ultimatums on subject. It's ok to have wrong opinion and share them and be corrected, but immature to rate the shows and give your expert opinion as reviews Wrong opinions... correcting people's opinions... someone doesn't know the difference between opinions and facts it seems It's immature to rate shows, give your personal opinion, or review them, right... Biased ultimatums, like what you're giving to shounen anime? |
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RobertBobert said: From the way people here keep attacking the genre's foundations under the guise of critiquing clichés or throwing out endless general complaints without details, I get the impression that people are just biased against the genre itself, and everything else is an excuse after the fact. I mean, seriously, blaming shonen for the power of friendship and rising above yourself to defeat a powerful enemy? Explain how this is different from complaining that every yuri anime is about lesbians or that all idol anime is musical? Exactly, the same people who complain about shounen fans "not getting the whole freaking point" about other anime genres, then themselves can't hold a coherent debate about why they dislike shounen anime |
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DigiCat said: Well, it really shocks me when people call the power of friendship or rising above themselves to defeat a powerful enemy "annoying clichés" without realizing that it's literally an element of the genre. They might as well complain that mecha shows don't develop because they're all about war. Well G-Witch actually did it but they still made up for it lol.RobertBobert said: From the way people here keep attacking the genre's foundations under the guise of critiquing clichés or throwing out endless general complaints without details, I get the impression that people are just biased against the genre itself, and everything else is an excuse after the fact. I mean, seriously, blaming shonen for the power of friendship and rising above yourself to defeat a powerful enemy? Explain how this is different from complaining that every yuri anime is about lesbians or that all idol anime is musical? Exactly, the same people who complain about shounen fans "not getting the whole freaking point" about other anime genres, then themselves can't hold a coherent debate about why they dislike shounen anime |
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Kustogg said: In this case, under shonen we are talking about battle shonen, which is indeed a kind of genre and has its own laws. And everything that you describe is exactly them, and not some kind of cliche that you can refuse. It's like scolding isekai for getting into another world, and mecha for robots. So you probably just don't like the genre itself, not some cliches or lack of development in it.RobertBobert said: There are no laws of shounen, shounen is a demographic. Not a genre. I don't think enjoying or creating a shounen is a crime, what I do find utterly crushing is the fact that any creativity has been utterly sucked dry and these shows are just repeats of each other with minor differences. Anime is a media that can create shows with boundless imagination, and many have in the shounen genre too. As of late however, most shounen have used this imagination to become carbon copies of another. MHA's popularity when it came out was massive and laid the foundation for most of the current shounen works coming out which is unfortunate because this boundless imagination has been used to create a whole new genre, the Harry Potter. You have a chosen one MC that is super strong, they go to a secret school that ordinary people don't know about and its set in our modern world. With this extreme oversaturation and zealous fanbase that hype up everyone of these shows, I think its quite obvious why more people have grown to dislike the genre, including people that its aimed towards including myself. The total lack of any sort of uniqueness or effort into world building or having these characters meet outside of a setting that isn't school, when not even that effort is put in. Then I think its time to wrap it upHow is this different from other popular shows? Not to mention the fact that you again confuse clichés and the laws of the genre as such. Really worth considering complaining that every yuri show is about lesbian lol. |
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