Oniichan wa Oshimai! Episode 12 Discussion

Marinate1016 said:
Yea it’s gonna take something insanely special to not have Onimai as AOTY. Absolutely amazing finale that had everything that’s made this show so good. Perfect showcase of Mahiro growth. What a truly beautiful tale of growth and the importance of friendship.

It’s funny, I want Bind to focus on Mushoku, but when you see them doing things like this, how could you not want more stories like this? The animation was just breathtaking at times during this show. The direction was stellar and they improved the source material so much. Bravo.

kojimaaoba said:
What do you know about transgenderism to talk as an expert? You know nothing and also you guys said that you don’t believe it. Why denying other people’s head cannons and fighting with them about a thing you don’t even believe? It’s a show, loved by trans people too and it is wholesome. That’s it. 

Many people who denied their trans identity for a long time recognize mahiro’s behaviour immediately. So let people enjoy it. Also I know that nothing will change your opinions because you are annoyed by something that you do not believe, how many times mangaka likes a trans flag, or trans head cannon tweet, or trans flagged blankets etc. etc.

I am very happy that they did not betray trans people like Steins:gate betrayed or Mahiro was not sexually assaulted like other cross dresser anime or manga. 

Mahiro is in another territory now, she is exploring the being a girl, she may stay there forever. She may want to go back, maybe she wanted to be there for the first time, but I don’t think that she, with her personality that fits exactly to a girls, would like to go back.

As the title says, she is done for! 

kojimaaoba said:
This is not about a character specifically. It is about how the gender swap stuff is used as a story tool. It is as foolish as using going blind to change the flow of the story. Or cancer. If you’d be blind or had cancer, and people in the anime you watch made fun or even sexually assault the character that had similar issues with you, that would be pretty offensive and stupid. 

I am very happy that onimai was not stupid or foolish. Also, mahiro has never been a femboy or anything like that, so the canon her being trans should not offend anyone. Anyway, this is a wholesome show. Nice to explore gender roles and identities and mangaka does not just support trans identities, he supports trans canons as well. And it feels good.

Note: You cannot raise a boy to be like a girl or be feminine or viceversa. It is scientifically impossible. If you take a cis person and force them opposite gender roles, you induce dysphoria on them and this is the worst thing you can experience in life. That’s why conversion therapies are banned worldwide. Steins being a show that respected science so good, was extremely disappointing in that sense.

cevnways said:
Having now watched the show I feel all the talk about gender from the community was completely miss placed, this is an incredibly wholesome show that comes from a very dark place, let's be blunt here Mahiro was a hikikomori, he had been overwhelmed by societal responsibilities and withdrawn to his room for 2 full years at the series start. there was only one person who gave even a slight shit about him anymore and it was his sister who was becoming estranged since he himself had given up.

That is a real position a lot of people have found themselves in and traditionally the only place things go from there is down, about 6ft under to be precise. which is why this show is so wholesome, it is giving a hikikomori a second chance at life, he has another chance to reconnect to his sister another chance to make friends and memories all from a clean slate where no one will judge him for his past mistakes, and he can grow as a person moving forward.

All this discussion about "ooh this scene totally means Mahiro is trans" kind of completely misses the point and I wish it wasn't the aspect of the show so many people latched onto.

Aoishi366 said:
it's cringe, don't respect the manga at all (it's litteraly shit on the manga), reeally a big shit.

Droebie said:

This last episode has Mahiro start to turn back. The sister presents him with another dose of the experimental drug and gives Mahiro the "choice" to turn back. Is it really a choice though? Mihari spent the last several episodes forcing him to be social, introducing him to people, eventually even sending him to school. Mahiro is happy about it but because of all the fun, love, and emotional bonds he's formed it's not really a choice anymore when you consider his alternative. Why would anyone choose to become a loser adult again with no friends and no life... over having 4 new great friends and feeling like you have a future again.

cevnways said:
Correct, no one in this position would ever choose the alternative, it's why I said earlier in the thread that all the focus put on gender in the community is completely misplaced, the focus of the story is the "brother rehabilitation project" It's about taking someone who has given up on life and helping to give them another chance. the crux of the show is Mahiros's mental growth as a person nothing more nothing less.

Droebie said:
Mahiro might be fine with it because of the alternative but what you quoted is more me looking at it as a negative. I think what Mihari did is take away his chance at real growth and maturity. Turning back the clock and starting over certainly is a fantasy a lot of people in his place dream of but it's a dangerous fantasy too. It takes away real responsibility from him and while Mihari is happy to see her brother recovering, unless he changes back she'll never have that big brother that she admired again. It's not true rehabilitation to me. But again I get the it's not meant to be that deep.

traed said:

Mahiro was consistently showing a lot of responsibility and so called maturity (I say that because I think the concept of maturity is stupid and manipulative like how masculine and feminine are). Going to the store to pick things up being trusted with handling the money and not blowing it all on whatever. Doing homework even though there is no real legal need having already finished school in past. Being a good sibling and friend even going out of the way to help others in need like taking care of sick Mihari. That’s more than most people do.

Droebie said:
To mature means to develop, it's about growth both mentally and physically, I don't really get why you would dislike that term. Also all the things you've listed he did could have been achieved by him as a man if given the chance, it doesn't excuse having this done to him. My point was she gave him an easy way out, and didn't give him a chance to prove he didn't need such a crutch.

bolemis said:
Kinda shed a tear on this episode, how silly. Guess it just reminds a lot of us how carefree being a child was. sigh 

traed said:

Because often it is used to manipulate people to be a certain way like if someone has a sense of humour even if it’s not hurting anyone they will be called immature for example, or it otherwise can falsely equate all “development” as equally good when there is tons of ways to develop in ways that are actually negative like becoming emotionally deadened, pessimistic in denial and unquestionably obedient to all authority. Plus there has to be a limit to how much someone would change you cant really expect eternal “growth” whatever that means as if someone is going to go beyond being a Bodhisatva or something and that kind of suggests that a person should never be accepted for who they are now no matter how good they can be. It just skirts around the fact it’s just an opinion of someone on someone else not some objective universal truth of mature versus immature which itself is black and white thinking. I use the term mature myself sometimes as a relative term but i try to avoid it but avoid immature more.

It’s kind of implied Mihari did try to ask Mahiro to do things but he just would rather play games since he accepted defeat and just was trying to enjoy his life for what it was.

Droebie said:

Thanks for clarifying, I can understand what you're staying but that really depends on the context of what someone is trying to get across with the word and it certainly doesn't apply to how I meant it.  That said  I didn't really pick up on the idea that Mihari tried, at least not hard enough. There were multiple instances where Mahiro found out that his sisters cares more than she lets on. Like when he found out how she talked about him all the time, or learned to bake cookies for him. Not to mention Mahiro opened his shell pretty fast, all it took was some pushing. I don't see why Mahiro is willing to go outside as a girl to the store at his sisters request but wouldn't have done the same if his sister insisted in the past. Now again I get we're not supposed to look this deeply at a show that keeps it pretty light. I'm just saying whatever was implied wasn't spelled out strongly enough for me not to feel this way. If you want to be logical about it, her forcing experimental drugs on her brother is a lot more forceful and than telling him to get a job or leave. However we wouldn't have a show if that's how it went down.

nekotan7 said:
Eh, power dynamic shift was really important to even get mihari to interact with mahiro like this and mahiro's own shortcomings are easier to deal with in this body than his original because the pressure is far less and he felt the body matched his own feelings of inferiority.

Also the amount of time that passed was tremendous, your acting like he went through all this in a few weeks when each episode probably covered something closer to a month.

Anyways in the end, the story doesn't relate to you, I think its pretty clear. To me the show had a lot of meaning, and I definitely don't agree with you that someone cannot have their hand held and mature. Rather I think that some people need that, because I feel its the only way I will ever make it out of my own failures, but I know that nobody will ever do it for me, so I will be stuck in my room forever I guess. Like 5 years now, where the heck is my Mihari at.

Droebie said:
I understand that but I would counter by saying the power dynamic was already in Mihari's favor as the caretaker to Mahiro.
I am well aware of it being a years time, the show spells that out well with multiple seasons/holidays. It doesn't change the flaws as I see them.
Or maybe I relate to it more than you realize and am just in a different place in my recovery from that lifestyle than you. I was supported for years by my parents in my early 20's, I was basically on life support the way I lived barely leaving my room. I was diagnosed with severe anxiety and depression, trust me I know all too well how intimidating a grocery store can be. I was never against support, my point of view is that this fantasy crutch Mahiro is given is a false hope, it's hard to measure real growth because he's been pushed into a scenario that makes everything easier. If in the final episode the second dose of the drug didn't work, there is a good chance after losing the crutch, the friends, and hope of a brand new start at life, that it would just have him reverting back, begging his sister to figure out how to make the drug work again rather than accepting that he needs to fix his own life, that his adult life still has so much to offer if he just takes the steps to start over. Who knows, the manga is ongoing so maybe my opinion will change when I see more. I can't help but feel taking the second dose for up to another year like this cemented him onto the path for good and yeah he'll likely be okay and have a happy life, but there is a disappointment I feel in this conclusion.

nekotan7 said:
I mean if you want to be like that sure I can shit on any single show you want by coming up with a dozen what ifs and saying a non realistic element shouldn't exist because it offers a solution to a problem I personally disagree with. To me it looks like your not here to critique the show itself but rather the author/those involved with the anime storyline for not being you and having the same opinions as you.