Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Part 2 Episode 11 Discussion

evoniee said:


aot is not that deep dude, mikasa literally one of the most useless under developed character that rise our of nowhere.

Marinate1016 said:
So we all in agreement it’s gotta be a movie coming for the final few chapters right? Or some type of OVA set up

YayaBunWa said:
So like.... how the hell do they wrap this up in 1 more episode? Double-length episode? I feel like there's easily room for another 12 eps but the title suggests otherwise. Is the next ep the end of this show completely?

MironBiron said:

9 chapters is a little too long for a movie if they decide to follow the current pacing (1 Chapter per Episode).

A three hour movie is too much to pull off.

On the other hand, it might not be enough for a television season, unless they’ll say fuck it and go for a short season of 7, 8 or 9 episodes (the second season of Owarimonogatari is only 7 episodes long, for example).

sketchydood said:

What the hell are you talking about??? The animation is fine, thunder spear action is fine. the camera movements are done intentionally to focus on the action, if it were completely still it would be more cheap, static and more boring.

What I find more baffling is how you have a problem with Annie and Reiner shielding people with their arms. What else are they going to protect them? It’s possible they could’ve grabbed them and put them on the ship but that just puts them in danger. They’d have 1 single target.

samashi20 said:
I'll take whatever they give me, but I really prefer a part 3.

YayaBunWa said:


Ahh, thanks for clarifying this. So there really is quite a bit left before this finalises (at least, more than 1 episode...). Idk, aren't movies generally used as alternatives rather than sequels to shows? Not sure if I've just missed them, but I can't remember many movies that were used to tie up a show (as opposed to adding-to or revising/reviewing).

Wonder how they'll finish this one. Guess they could go for one more shorter season, but that'd be costly for them I'd imagine - presuming they don't stretch it out though.

MironBiron said:

Same here.

If they decided to split it into 2 movies, there would be a gap of (at least?) 1 year in-between their release, opposed to a gap of 1 month—which simply isn’t possible when you consider the amount of work that goes into a movie level production.

I’m personally anticipating the release of an alternative ending in both mediums (manga and anime) and I’m curious wether the manga ending will be adapted at all.

Kodansha, being the cash cows they are, could potentially go all the way and release two endings in the span of three years, in the form of a television season, volume releases and one or two additional movie releases.

I don’t think they’ll stop milking this thing until maximum profit is generated, and I believe that Yams knows perfectly well what he’s doing (although I’m not on the AOE side of things, manga readers should feel free to send me a DM about this).

samashi20 said:
Very interesting take here. What makes you think they would release 2 different endings? On one hand it'll cost money to animate 2 versions of the same show. On the other hand, wouldn't that be stepping over Isayama's toes? I read a few things about him not being satisfied with what he came out with and I bet he would make changes, but do you think he's willing to re-write the last few chapters and maybe even add more? Not to mention that his involvement with the anime seems a lot smaller compared to the previous seasons (I read something about providing 2 pages where he went into details about a few things, but that only makes me think that he's not as involved as he used to be).

MironBiron said:

If you approach the final 9 chapters (I won’t spoil them to you) + all interviews (from November 2020 up to December 2021) in detail, from an objective point of view, it becomes pretty clear that they don’t plan on finishing this anytime soon.

It’s not a big deal either. Stories get updated all the time; From director’s cuts and alternative endings, to revised novels, to additional content in video-games. Isayama’s biggest inspiration isn’t named Muv Luv Alternative for no reason.

The only big deal here is the current state of the fanbase tbh. That, and the amount of money Kodansha will end up generating when this all ends.

Headlights said:
Ashes on the fire used for the billionth time ✓
Animation worse than a mid level shonen ✓
Most of the art looks like it's only 20% finished ✓
Thanks Mappa! Keep up the great work!

samashi20 said:
Hmm, this doesn't sound like good news to me LOL I would hate to wait for a couple more years to see the finale. I am also not the biggest fan of the idea of adapting an alternative ending. I know Isayama said the anime is the final product before, so unless it's him writing the new ending, it will be hard for me to stomach anything else, but we'll see. I'm sure they'll make an announcement soon after the last episode comes out. We'll find out in 2 weeks how it'll go.

Unusual_Kmc said:
I feel like a lot of people are gonna say this episode was awesome simply because they've been conditioned to watch the garbage we've been getting so far from MAPPA. Sure, this episode had some good animation moments - but overall it was cheap.

Just because there were a few seconds with a cool Falco transformation, or a few OK Mikasa scenes, dosen't mean I'm going to ignore the horrendous thunder spear animations, random zoom ins, and the scenes where Annie and Reiner were using their arms to cover the scientists.

Also, they're definitely not gonna fit the ending into one episode. I'm assuming the last episode, seeing as it's being delayed by a week, will be 40 - 60 minutes long? Or they'll potentially announce an ending movie?

notsofamousxD said:

Dude even though I am neutral floch also killed eldians and transformed hundreds of them into mindless titans

MironBiron said:

I wouldn’t worry about it at all. Unless you happen to be a Yaegerist.

If they’ll decide to release the real ending (anyone with half a brain should be able to see that the one we received last year is fake, but reality is different, I guess), it’ll be on Isayama’s behalf.

Part of me wants them to adapt the manga ending from last year before releasing the real deal, and part of me doesn’t want to wait that long. If they do adapt it, the animated medium will undoubtedly highlight a lot of the flaws that went unnoticed by most of the readers.

Anyhow, the fanbase’s shitstorm will continue to rage on for years regardless of what Isayama and Kodansha decide to do.

CQLLIST said:
This episode, if I have to describe it in one word, is a “Bloodbath”. Still feeling bad for Connie that he had to kill both of his comrades, thank god they made it more gruesome in the adaptation and Armin is not looking good at all :(

Man don’t know why but deep inside I’m still in disagreement when they form an alliance and indicates Isayama may be the imposter among us because from what can be tell they’ve not been in good terms in the past and it’s unexpected for them to be in good terms this fast but good thing for sure they’re moving up with some action packed

Annie and Reiner are both saviors in this episode while the others go forward and ensure each and every of them are safe. Jean, Mikasa, Connie, and the rest fight for their lives and I’m impressed by the effects of the blood flowing through + Falco’s Jaw Titan transformation looks pretty SICK HOLY. The sakuga here were pretty solid overall.


And ah yes FaZe Gabi is bAcK At iT aGaiN, from shooting Potato Girl, to Eren Jaeger, and now Chad Floch, bruh she never misses a single snipe shot LMAO, and in conclusion, this is where we all have to instant ban her for having an aimbot injected in her eyes but still, she takes the 🐐 because Chad Floch is finally dead, no more provocative side of his talky talky anymore

RIP SHADIS AND MAGATH, both the chad heroes who doesn’t deserve to die but had to face the reality, my heart is completely shattered when watching both of them pulling up the trigger and causing an explosion in the end 😭

Can you kill Eren? What an interesting way to end the credit for this episode.

Best episode up for this cour. I’m not mentally prepared for some tearsome I’d expect in the final episode of this but hopefully there’ll be a sequel announcement.

Unusual_Kmc said:
I feel like a lot of people are gonna say this episode was awesome simply because they've been conditioned to watch the garbage we've been getting so far from MAPPA. Sure, this episode had some good animation moments - but overall it was cheap.

Just because there were a few seconds with a cool Falco transformation, or a few OK Mikasa scenes, dosen't mean I'm going to ignore the horrendous thunder spear animations, random zoom ins, and the scenes where Annie and Reiner were using their arms to cover the scientists.

Also, they're definitely not gonna fit the ending into one episode. I'm assuming the last episode, seeing as it's being delayed by a week, will be 40 - 60 minutes long? Or they'll potentially announce an ending movie?

Nurguburu said:
No. Good animation can't save this terrible writing at this point. Too late now. What a shame.

Icebreaker93 said:
MAPPA already damaged the AoT final seasons, nothing will fix.
Atleast this level of animation was needed for the previous season, at this point nothing can save this season.

evoniee said:

damage what? it's as shit as in the manga

11_BlueSky said:
"conditioned to watch the garbage we've been getting so far from MAPPA" pls stfu 🤦‍♂️ I bet you watch aot with your eyes close. Part 2 production has been good so far.

racers551 said:

What? This literally rivals WITs best scenes. Even brought wit animators/freelancers into the show once again.

Unusual_Kmc said:


Don't embarrass yourself, this dosen't come anywhere near close to WIT's scenes. The thunder spear scenes in S3 were legendary. The thunder spears in S4 have been merely passable (with the exception of Levi vs Beast in P1).

racers551 said:

This comes way close, considering some of the best animators in the industry worked on this episode.

Takashi Kojima, Q, and many others are on this show. Even former wit freelancers for AOT worked on this show.

Do you even know their names?

Studio bind animators too.

Unusual_Kmc said:
If Elon Musk were to create a car that blows itself up, would you defend the car? "b..but Elon Musk made it! Do you even know his name?"

I don't care what animators worked on it, it means nothing if the work looks bad. Good people can still make garbage products. Why do I have to explain this basic concept to you?

Look back to my original post, I've edited it to show the visual effects differences. It's embarrasing. Hey, at least it has "some of the best animators in the industry working on it".

X-Offender said:

It's undoubtful that Wit Studio did a better job overall but it's not like MAPPA are delivering the next Plan 9 From Outer Space or something. It's absolutely fine work. The way people blow this matter out of proportions is truly puke-inducing.

I didn't know AoT fans were such cancerous crybabies before visiting these forums, but I should have realised from the pathetic assaults on MAPPA staff from last year.

Watchanime324 said:
‘hesitate, and we’ll never stop the rumbling’

this episode presents the full brutality of a conflict & the consequence of the alliance’s choice to ‘save the world’. it’s an episode centered around the actions ppl take based on opposing viewpoints, and this is highlighted by the mid-card.

‘there will always be an enemy’ is a line that points back to erwin’s words to eren that are repeated throughout the story in different ways - ‘who is the enemy?’


ultimately aot goes down the path of human nature. due to our subjective perspectives, we all create an enemy out of those we believe oppose us.
it’s the same for the alliance. to follow through on their ideals (genocide is wrong) they kill their new enemies the yeagerists. hence it’s a great detail that the most hopeful of them is sidelined after having been shot in the mouth - he literally cannot ‘talk this out’.

however, the alliance also represents something else. unlike the yeagerists who can only view the world through the portion they see, every member of the alliance has adapted their worldview to accommodate both sides of the conflict. the warriors, along with magath/gabi have now understood how twisted their perspective on the ‘island devils’ were, while those same island devils cannot go back to being ‘ignorant’ due to their own visit to liberio. they’ll fight to stop indiscriminate killing on either side of the walls because ‘we are all the same’.


this is what aot has always been. people living by their beliefs, making tough choices in a cruel world that align with their sense of morality. there is also the notion of ‘special’ people, those who do not get caught up by the ‘flow’ of life but form their own path.

this is exemplified by mikasa. she is driven by the philosophy that the world is not only cruel, but also beautiful, and fights to WIN in order to preserve that beauty. this juxtaposes bertholt who was happy to go with the ‘flow’ because he was unable to see the beauty too.


this is why mikasa would be classed as ‘special’. even when protecting eren it was always due to her own feelings which often went against what eren actually wanted, hence this episode where she fights the symbolic extension of eren (the yeagerists literally worship him) is key
this episode highlights a lot of her growth implicitly. whether that be her bond with annie, fighting ‘eren’, or the idea of not hesitating. not hesitating is about accepting the responsibility of ones beliefs and acting on them, the culmination of her arc throughout.
she is emotional, she does feel the weight of her ‘sins’ (the overt imagery of the blood ‘staining’ her as the needs to pause in the middle of the conflict). she exemplifies pushing down emotions to stand by one’s beliefs, while still understanding the full weight of that.

this idea of not hesitating is the same for jean, the culmination of his own struggle with human killing that started in uprising. he is fighting due to his own morals and idea of what being a scout truly means, just like everyone else is fighting for their own beliefs.

FLOCH
floch in his own way is doing the same, fighting for his own beliefs about the security of paradis even if that involves genocide. he leans into the ‘devil’ eren and opposes the alliance both thematically and functionally. his twisted salute(Shizou wo sasageyo) the perfect representation of this.

you can even view floch as similar to shadis when he was first a soldier. flochs was swept up by the ‘flow’ when he first became a scout but now that switches to an attempt to make a personal impact - ‘I will be the one to save eldia’. its these things that make him interesting

Keith and Magath
the conversation between magath and shadis spells out the underlying message aot is trying to send. these are both commanders of their respective sides who grew past their own conceit to accept the true reality of their actions and try to grow past them.

shadis believed he was an average person, a bystander who could do nothing but go with the flow. that’s why it’s important that annie plays a part in what ends up moving him, as she aligned with that same philosophy. in his conclusion, he shows that anybody can be special

no matter how we perceive ourselves. his original goal was tainted by the need for validation, he had to be SEEN as special. hence in his conclusion he plays a role that no one will ever actually know of - emphasized by the irony of magaths line (no one knows he’s here).

true validation can never come from others, it has to be something we find within ourselves. magath refused to pat himself on the back due to his failings, but understanding his true feelings allows him to end his life by doing something he wholeheartedly believes in.

he found value in his bonds with the warriors, and while it was too late, it presents a route that could’ve made him happy had he realized it sooner. a route that could’ve made him ‘free’. he had warped his own conscious to justify his actions and now feels the full weight of it
the last part is their names. we have a couple of examples in the rumbling arc (eg gabi & kaya), where a resolution between characters ends up with them calling each other by their real names. this is very important because names above all represent personal identity.

in a world where the other side is generalised (‘island devils’, ‘mainland’) this personal identity is key. each individual on each side has a right to live, each name is valuable and each life is different. you cannot group everyone as an enemy or the cycle is only perpetuated.

they may never know those names but they DO exist. magath and shadis recognize each other as people, they find common ground and they show a way past the barriers of ones birthplace - albeit too late.

another brilliant episode with a layered commentary on the human condition