Kami no Tou Episode 5 Discussion

Mr_Trotskywalker said:
Sadly she's probably going to stay relevant for a long while as she's Bam's main reason for going up the tower but oh man do I want to see her burn in hell

sleepinoldei said:


I think you mistook Yu Han Sung for Evankhell. Yu Han Sung is the instant coffee guy while Evankhell is the ruler of the 2nd floor and hasn't been shown yet.

herrickluk said:
Some interesting developments this episode...

1) The rules state that acquaintances can't participate in the same test, and if Rachel knew about this, it would explain why Rachel was pretending not to know Bam and wouldn't answer him

2) Leroro is about to ask Hansung "If your goal is to-" but is cut off, alluding there might be some reason why he put acquantainces in the same test (My guess is he probably wants to use Rachel's group to weed out any potential threats to the tower)

3) Urek Mazino is the first Irregular besides Bam we hear about (likely to be an obstacle later on)

Questions that still remain...
- If Rachel is on Bam's side, why did she say at the end of Ep 4 it was okay for her team member to kill everyone? (was it just to cover for point 1?)
- Why did Rachel's team not try to pursue to crown, and how is it related to what Hansung said about expelling those who might harm the tower?
- Why does Leroro cover for Bam when asked if he knew anyone who would harm the tower, despite witnessing his powerful Shinsu

KorhalChild said:
Rachel is a bitch. I hate her character so much. If anyone read the manwha, please tell me these questions get answered. Why go so far as to betray Bam, who only had her and nobody else in his life? Why even befriend him if she was going to betray him anyway? Was he something like a pet for her? Does she get better further into the story or is she still a bitch?

bruhcam said:

Not really an asspull since its been hinted at since episode 2, the shinsu barrier, the administrator's hints, and also literally the infinite amount of chocolate bars lmao.

Kimurah said:


Lampshading isn't some sort of "disclaimer" that can justify an exagerated act or asspull later on. Going back at episode 2 when Khun got called out by the test master, it could mean absolutely anything because the narrative had been pretty vague on what can it be done and what can't by these main characters and their nifty gadgets.

The infinite amount of chocolate is just one of the many unexplained attributes of Khun's magical bag until episode 2, along with it being indestructible and in the later case able to transport pretty much anything size and weight wise, so each of them are individual that do not contribute to justify that his asspull plan was rightfully set up.

Secondly, these 3 characters he had been carrying for a while have no real reason to either jump in the bag in the first place nor to work as bodyguards until this past episode. The dum narrative just tells us that they jumped inside and are following orders without them getting some retribution or because they were blackmailed or something between the lines that gives them proper reason to act according to Khun's orders.

Lastly is ridiculous that these minor characters previously beaten by Khun are far stronger than these other casuals that fill in as methaporical punching bags, similar to the ones boxers and wrestlers face before an actual grand event against a real competitor.

Khun transporting these 3 nameless characters and making them their servants without them opposing at all fills in as an asspull because, it wasn't stated before this episode that Khun's bag could transport pretty much anything (it was only stablished that somehow it could duplicate items) there was no sign of Khun actually having time to talk and/or fight other characters during the first trial.

A good writer would have shown vaguely Khun beating or talking with these nameless characters during the first trial and showing their perspective on why they follow his orders.

SethBigBoss said:
The studio is doing too much changes,it would have been better if they stick with how it goes in the source material.
-they exaggerate baam's uselessness
-they exaggerate Khun's behavior toward baam
-they exaggerate with the jokes
-they exaggerate things to make things epic (Baam's explosion)
As a reader I'm not quite happy but otherwise it was fine I guess

chefalicious said:


well when anime literally copy the source material and just animate it, people complain that it was too close to it and if it doesn't, then it's complained that it is the other way around. Enjoy it for what it is, there's a reason movies don't also directly copy it's source material

brzytki said:

It's kinda hard to defend it not being an asspull in the anime since it cut out a lot of stuff from the webtoon, both when in comes to certain scenes and worldbuilding dialogues, but let's try.

1 The webtoon explains the origins of the bag a little faster than the anime as well as some of the exposition regarding Khun's family which in turn explains his strength and how powerful the bag is - not its powers specifically but where it is on the power scale.

brzytki said:

2 The "hidden team" has numerous reasons to do it. Firstly, each and every one of them is weaker than Khun, and i'm not only talking about his intelligence but also sheer strength (which in webtoon was heavily implied and in the anime hidden behind 2 instances of comedy). Keep in mind they met during the battle royale test which should be reason enough for them to agree to his proposal, otherwise they could end up dead. Secondly, they get a free ride doing absolutely nothing to pass the tests by themselves - Khun literally carries them through four (!) tests and, as it was shown during the barrier test, at least one of them would likely fail it, possibly other tests too. Basically, thanks to Khun they are in a group of say 35 survivors (if not fewer after the crown game) out of 400 regulars.

brzytki said:

3 Khun explicitly states in episode 2 and episode 5 that he is looking for interesting regulars to climb the tower with. Interesting means not weak or at the very least with uncommon powers/abilities. So i don't know why you think it's a ridiculous idea.

brzytki said:

4 Again, why would they oppose? It's really beneficial for them - they pass the tests doing nothing and in return have to help him out once. In the webtoon there is actually a subtle foreshadowing of his bag being able to carry people inside in the middle of the battle royale test, not to mention the barrier test and Hansung Yu's words after the door test. In the anime they made it pretty obvious i'd say, especially during the barrier test and a lot of anime only's caught it.

Kimurah said:

Khun could had disolved the society at any point during the first test up to this point because there could had been a plethora of reasons how the Black March had ended on the hands of such a weakling like Bam (stolen from Yuri by a stronger/wiser group of thieves or just straight up killing Yuri by a stronger guy and using Bam just as a courier)

Kimurah said:

but it's so farfetched that these guys that failed the first test are way stronger/clever in combat than all those other trash mobs that appeared in the last rounds of the crown game wich they managed to pass the previous tests.

Kimurah said:


That is my point, people can't pull out the source and use it as a troubleshoot manual using an indexed page "when the anime fails to explain this and that, refer to chapter X page Y for an answer". Adaptations should be able to stand on their own. This is an example of a bad or lousy rushed adaptation.



This is what makes it even harder to believe. Khun managed to beat these 3 nameless either in a free for all or in a 1 on 1 fights during the first trial wich had an already short period of time before he met Bam & Gator guy. Secondly, if these guys get carried to a superior level and get caught by the administrators (wich they did, but of course for plot convenience the admins are acting in a shady way) they could suffer penalties for cheating, from getting kicked out to probably their own lives (who knows how harsh or lenient can these test admins be). It's ridiculous that all 3 choose the same outcome. Also I kinda understand the level disparity from Khun to these mobs, but it's so farfetched that these guys that failed the first test are way stronger/clever in combat than all those other trash mobs that appeared in the last rounds of the crown game wich they managed to pass the previous tests.



This becomes another story contrivance. During the first test Khun's line of thought was that Bam was strong just because he was carrying the Black March, but he didn't show any strenght or special abilities until the end of the Crowns game. Khun could had disolved the society at any point during the first test up to this point because there could had been a plethora of reasons how the Black March had ended on the hands of such a weakling like Bam (stolen from Yuri by a stronger/wiser group of thieves or just straight up killing Yuri by a stronger guy and using Bam just as a courier)



Again, you can't use the source as a troubleshoot manual, that only works if you're both a manga reader and an anime watcher, and I can asure you tons of us are anime onlys (and the reason why the first rule of every discussion thread has a disclaimer not to discuss about the source)

I also had explained previously that without confirmation on what Khun's bag can and can't do, you can't use the dialogue of the shinso wall teacher as an excuse that foreshadows his abilities because in a title focused completely in the fantasy genre, a lot can happen without setting boundaries first.

Ryuseishun said:
5 episodes in and I will still continue to say that the only thing the series really has going for it is the obvious mysterious elements (hopefully they're not ending up as blatant "sore-thumb" plot holes, but I'm not far into the manga to make a proper judgment for that part).
While I will say that anime does at least have an edge in the obvious department of audiovisuals, the presentation of storytelling and characters hasn't improved much at all. It again goes back to the lack of needed context. Then again, I don't remember the spirit of the Black March literally DIOing the entire place to stop Baam from violating their previous deal.

As for that........well........Baam Ex Machina....if I remember correctly, the translations from the manga stated that the "GodWater" acted on its own will in response to Baam's will, desire, or whatever it may be that involving him essentially forfeiting the game to protect his boo....I mean, female friend. As silly as I still think that moment was, at least his decision wasn't all that ill-advised, as the Crown Game was essentially a bonus game. So yea, the whole script had become more extended due to these events, cause Baam's adventure has been deprived of a shortcut....lol

There's a lot of food for thought here, but nothing necessarily positive to speak of. I know I'm obviously in the minority here, but when you've watch or at least known a lot of shows with this sort of setup or characters, it's not as easy to be impressed or sold on it anymore.

dc22 said:
Another week, another dumb episode full of dull fights.

Dreamxer said:


I am very surprised that Rachel and her team protected Bam during the crown game, I do wish Rachel did something before getting hit, She just accepted the blow and it wasn't that difficult to avoid.

Kimurah said:

That is my point, people can't pull out the source and use it as a troubleshoot manual using an indexed page "when the anime fails to explain this and that, refer to chapter X page Y for an answer". Adaptations should be able to stand on their own. This is an example of a bad or lousy rushed adaptation.

Kimurah said:

This is what makes it even harder to believe. Khun managed to beat these 3 nameless either in a free for all or in a 1 on 1 fights during the first trial wich had an already short period of time before he met Bam & Gator guy. Secondly, if these guys get carried to a superior level and get caught by the administrators (wich they did, but of course for plot convenience the admins are acting in a shady way) they could suffer penalties for cheating, from getting kicked out to probably their own lives (who knows how harsh or lenient can these test admins be). It's ridiculous that all 3 choose the same outcome. Also I kinda understand the level disparity from Khun to these mobs, but it's so farfetched that these guys that failed the first test are way stronger/clever in combat than all those other trash mobs that appeared in the last rounds of the crown game wich they managed to pass the previous tests.

Kimurah said:

This becomes another story contrivance. During the first test Khun's line of thought was that Bam was strong just because he was carrying the Black March, but he didn't show any strenght or special abilities until the end of the Crowns game. Khun could had disolved the society at any point during the first test up to this point because there could had been a plethora of reasons how the Black March had ended on the hands of such a weakling like Bam (stolen from Yuri by a stronger/wiser group of thieves or just straight up killing Yuri by a stronger guy and using Bam just as a courier)

Kimurah said:

Again, you can't use the source as a troubleshoot manual, that only works if you're both a manga reader and an anime watcher, and I can asure you tons of us are anime onlys (and the reason why the first rule of every discussion thread has a disclaimer not to discuss about the source)

I also had explained previously that without confirmation on what Khun's bag can and can't do, you can't use the dialogue of the shinso wall teacher as an excuse that foreshadows his abilities because in a title focused completely in the fantasy genre, a lot can happen without setting boundaries first.

badabass said:
Okay. Crown game was over with no win solution. So whats the deal to Anaak? Can she surrender and let Green April go or else? Now everything may come to nonsense.

RinTheWanderer said:
Seems to be a little confusion. Pretty sure Anaak won the bet because Bam's team didn't win.

Bam having powers has been foreshadowed. You guys are kind of thinking in the wrong direction here. They created a situation for bam to show off his power as an irregular. It's not easy to force your way into the tower so clearly something is different about Bam, he just has amnesia and thus doesn't know how to use his powers. Theres enough set up even in the anime to support that possibility.

Khun having a team in the bag also makes plenty of sense. Yeah, it wasn't directly confirmed until he revealed it this episode. The people in the bag were all pretty much in a situation of accept his help or die so they all owe him their lives. The first test wasn't some even situation where only the strongest made it out. Even if you were second strongest, you could get taken out by the first strongest. Surviving the test doesn't really speak to how strong you are.

They give us not one, but two hints that there are people in the bag and I feel thats plenty. The show isn't obligated to reveal every characters tricks before the battles, they just need to leave room for them to reasonably have a trick up their sleeve. This reveals a lot about Khun here. He is someone that always wants to have a trick up his sleeve and he doesn't want to reveal any more of his power than is absolutely necessary. In a world with all sorts of fantastic items and powers, keeping your tricks a secret is vital to winning. Thats why he would use the other team at all. It wasn't so they could win round 4, it was so Khun could enter round 5 without revealing their strength. They are free to reveal just about anything in round 5 because if they win, they move to the next floor. It was a very sound strategy. Optimal even and if Bam hadn't been such a simp, probably would have worked. Well, ok, it wouldn't have but it would have given them the best chance. No one was beating red hair girl at this stage.

RinTheWanderer said:
If I recall he did have amnesia in the webtoon, they just weren't as explicit about it. He doesn't know how he got into that dark pit.

RinTheWanderer said:
If I recall he did have amnesia in the webtoon, they just weren't as explicit about it. He doesn't know how he got into that dark pit.

YururuY said:


so like luffy is simping when he saved nico robin? xD
some of you all need to learn some dictionary definitions before going to discussion boards

YururuY said:


so like luffy is simping when he saved nico robin? xD
some of you all need to learn some dictionary definitions before going to discussion boards

ayaan692 said:

no because luffy isnt a slave to robin like bam is too rachel

he literally said "i belong to her"
you cant really defend that

Clairully said:


wow haha because care of parental figures is indicative of slavery

HEY- said:
So... 5th episode from 13 episodes and here I am wondering why is everyone hyped about this. The anime feels so shallow and there isn't anything that would caught my attention just yet. Only one girl that goes by the name Rachel, who is a big walking plot hole.

YururuY said:


that just means you have no empathy, you are probably a sociopath
you just can't comprehend and empathize with baams existence in the slightest
dude has literally lived all his live inside a cave without even sunlight until he met rachel

seriously if u don't like it drop it and move on, ur comments are unsightly and add nothing of value to this thread

and now to explain something else to you
a simp is by default someone with ROMANTIC feelings and hopes of winning a female over for SEXUAL purposes, which baam outright denied right before he said that "he belongs to her"

btw if it was Khun or any Dude who found him instead of rachel it would be EXACTLY THE SAME SITUATION, because thats just the kind of cirumstance he was in, he views her as friend and family, as more than that, the only person he has known and the only other thing he has known apart from the dark walls of his cave, he has no internet, no world to go out and do stuff, he was alone, in a cave, for god you know how long

if it was khun who found him or shibisu, and they went off like rachel, he would be "simping" after khun / shibisu?

right, he wouldn't because that word doesn't apply towards males, which means it also doesnt apply if romance is not involved therefore he is not a simp

i hope that convinved you, if it didn't, then i have my confirmation that either you simply can not comprehend logic, or you are a troll and then that basically invalidates everything u have ever said and will ever say in these threads so yeah.




yea its like calling someone who opens a door for a girl a simp, or rapist, hey everyone who looks in the general direction of a girl , lets all call them rapists from now on because its just a joke and the misuse of words isn't derogatory towards anyone