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| (original version) nooooooo idea what is going on wow ballsy to introduce kaworu now and make him so affable with his silver hair and singing ode to joy and then kill him off. but kaworu and shinji........... are they......... you know................ ;) and turns out adam is not really adam but rather lilith. what difference that makes, i don't know i admit, i'm finding the philosophical aspects really hard to follow. i don't understand what kaworu's purpose was (i'm guessing to merge with lilith and...... do what? cause the third impact to destroy humanity? but again i ask, why?) and if seele sent kaworu i.e. an angel, does that mean they have been sending all of them thus far as well? i am so confused asuka :( |
| (director's cut) still confused about lilith and lilim and adam and what anything even means.... but it's still so engrossing so do i care (a little but not that much) oh kaworu, he's so charming with his floppy hair. i kinda love him. so obviously he dead. also what was that weird eye on gendo's hand?? and he called unit 01 "yui", so some things are tying together - i wonder if shinji was born for the sole purpose of piloting unit 01 because its soul/core/base/whatever is his mother poor asuka, she's sat wondering how did she get from the top of the world to the bottom of the heap with a boss that's such a creep |
| I don't really think that Shinji is gay, he accepted Kowaru's feelings because he felt they were genuine, while he rejected Misato's hand because he felt she was only doing it to make him forget his sadness, thus not genuine. But I guess Shinji is already shy and Kowaru was making some fast moves |
| --AbiSa-- |
| Most crazy but probably best episode out of 4 director's cut ones. It's very rare when a character which appears only for 1 episode pretty much makes an unbelievable change and earns a lot of praise from viewers for it ( I mean look how many people have Kaworu in their favorites probably only because of this one appearance). Who are Lilith and Lilim is definitely the most confusing thing here, but it might actually end up getting explaining soon just like many very confusing things in the story. Let's not forget that Asuka is still continuing to suffer and Rei pretty much didn't do much during whole episode, maybe there are good reasons hidden behind that. Of course I just can't stop writing without mentioning the so called 'hillarious gay part' of episode which involved Shinji and Kaworu. It was just a weird and funny thing to see 2 male teens explaining their feelins to one another and even sleeping close to each other. I feel like Shinji was confused and got into too good of a relations with Kaworu very fast which resulted a very dark ending to this episode and a big psychological effect to Shinji's already damaged mental state. Well looks like I've got 2 more to go and then theres no way I'm ending evangelion watching without the infamous film |
| @Figva It isn't confusing: Kaworu distinctly adresses humans as "Lillin/Lilim, children of Lillith" while talking to Shinji (about what's an AT Field, and so on). And he clearly calls what was until now known as Adam the First Angel (in the Terminal Dogma) "Lillith" (in case you don't know, the name comes from the biblical Adam's first "wife", created like him rather than from him), revealing that all Angels were deceived by Gendô & co. Since when is the film "infamous"? I grew up always reading about how infamous the TV end of EVA was. Very effective indeed. What did Hyuga say about what ? The Misato moment ? January 6, 2020 @Code0018 It wasn't confusing. or rather, Kaworu was confused at first because he ended up facing a being called "Lillith" (you can check who this biblical character is if you feel like it) when he was expecting to meet "Adam", father of all Angels. That's why he reacted like this, he realized at that moment the fishy thing with all of this. You didn't ask about it so I guess you understood what Kaworu meant by "Lilim" (or "lilin" depending on the transliteration), the "children of Lillith". The "thing" growing in Gendô's hand, you actually know what/who it is. ;) @Danielf6 Your wish would be made true, years later in the third chapter of "Shin Eva". Kaworu was killed immediately because in one of the original plans (that came to change a lot over the TV course) he was to be added to the roster around the mid-point. |
Rei_IIIAug 28, 2021 3:53 AM
| I liked the Beethoven soundtrack in the background also the fight was pretty good. |
| Asuka. Shinji tells Asuka that Kaji is gone. Asuka's been taken into custody. The Fifth Children. Gendo and Ritsuko. Gendo was making love to Ritsuko? Toji and Kensuke left. A boy is humming. Nagisa Kaworu. He's the Fifth Children. When Akira Ishida says he loves you, you love him back. As for what Hyuga said.... |
| If you see that my post is exactly 1 month old (or more) from when it was posted... Don't waste your time, especially when you want to reply with something petty & insignificant. Assume that I've moved on (because I have). |
| kaworu-kun said he loved me it was... it was the first time someone told me they loved me he was like me, and like ayanami i loved him fucking love this episode |
| overall, pretty interesting episode. In just 25 minutes, we see Shinji go through, probably every stage of heartbreak, an Angel make it all the way down to where Adam(???) is held, then Shinji commit his first kill. What an episode. First part fucking shook me, i genuinely thought Asuka's past couldn't get any worst and then just...fuck bro. I know a lot of people don't like Asuka to much, but fucking hell i felt horrid for her this ep, even if we only saw like 1 minute of her, 7 days wandering in the middle of no where, completely let go of herself, her pride was gone, she couldn't pilot Unit 02, once again everyone had left her. Later being left in hospital. Seems like they are really shifting the gear up, and it feels like everyone, and i mean everyone is simultaneously having a mid life crisis, regardless of their role. Kaworu's deal was interesting. Him being similar to Rei e.g. being made from Adam (practically an Eva with a soul), except he seemed to be able to more of an Angel then Rei, maybe much more. He could use an A.T. Field and control Unit 02 like a puppet and seemed to have a better grasp about what Adam truly is, and how angels work. I wonder how many others like him are out there? His statement about the "Adam" underground is still pretty confusing to me, referring it to "Lilith" instead. His relationship with Shinji was also pretty interesting, although short, he did seem to have genuine feelings for Shinji. Gendou has a bit of a thing growing on his hand, i'm no doctor but, he should probably see a professional about it. 2 episodes left. Although this ep felt fast pace in terms of story telling, they continue to amaze me by each episode. Wonder how they will end this. |
 "yabe." |
| I am, if possible, even more confused than before. Looking forward to watch the last two episodes! |
| Wow this arc was a speedrun. I was just waiting for a splat noise lol. 30 seconds of no movement again. Guess Gendou is going to become adam or something |
| I feel so bad for Shinji...heartbreak is horrible. Kaworu was really interesting. Hoping to see more of him in the rebuild movies. That last minute felt so long. |
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| wtf shiji's GAY.. a big no-no for this episode |
| this episode was my favorite in the series, it really set shinji's final character development into motion aided directly by kaworu. kaworu is seriously an awesome character, very sad episodes, but to my final point. why are there so many homophobes on MAL i mean i knew you all were probably cishet men sitting in your moms basements and keyboard warring against people living their lives while sexualizing 14 year old girls, but JEEZ. you don't even have to scroll down that far to see someone call kaworu the f slur. do you guys have any sense of character depth or... like.. comprehension?? jfc you people |
| Well that relationship was very short-lived Yay I finally learned something I'd been wondering about. Nerv is Seele's execution agency So if all of the angels have been defeated then what's next? Will they finally reveal what the Human Instrumentality Project is? |
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GoZha said: Well that relationship was very short-lived Yay I finally learned something I'd been wondering about. Nerv is Seele's execution agency So if all of the angels have been defeated then what's next? Will they finally reveal what the Human Instrumentality Project is? Human instrumentality is to unite both angel and every living being into 1 existence,either original ending that maybe can changed your life or EoE which ihs literally rumbling also did you now figure out rei and yui relationship? |
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| Kaworu's pretty scary. Especially when his voice got all weird because of the Progressive Knives clashing. That moment with Kaworu in Unit-01's grasp was the most suspenseful thing I've ever seen. 5/5 |
| It seems that we'll never see Pen Pen again :( Angels have really evolved into an outstanding state huh |
| I literally have no idea whats happening |
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| This episode was kinda gay man |
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| This episode is too rush. Shinji suffers being alone and Kaworu befriend with him. That was a realy good idea. They should expand it in more episodes. Why they kill Kaworu in his debiut episode? He has such a great potential. |
| almost all comments from 2009 are bitching about the "shounen-ai aura" of this episode. There are some recent complaints yet, but very few. So, nice to see people becoming less dumb and less sexually insecure. |
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Phrophetsam said: The pacing in these past few episodes have been way too fast for me to properly enjoy the story arcs. I suspected Kaworu was the Angel from the moment I saw him and I think we're breezing past so much of the possible psychological trauma this has on the characters. Danielf6 said: This episode is too rush. Shinji suffers being alone and Kaworu befriend with him. That was a realy good idea. They should expand it in more episodes. Why they kill Kaworu in his debiut episode? He has such a great potential. Same, same. Instead of getting attached to what's happening, I just kept getting left thinking "what if this idea got the time & attention it deserved?" It's all like trying to eat a raw steak. |
| Boys love is great but this episode doesn't mean Shinji's bi-sexual or anything, I agree with the early comment that said he accepted Kaworu's feelings because they're genuine. As in he respects his love for him but we do not get any indication in this episode that he lusts for him physically but more platonically. After all Kaworu is the perfect person that Shinji was looking for, someone who reached out to him not for his position but him as a human being. Also dang, Asuka really let herself go. The girl is broken at this point. |
| So Kaworu is the last Angel and could have caused the third impact, but instead, he allowed Shinji to catch up with him and let him kill him. So it's either to kill or to be killed. Damn, so much has happened. Definitely need a video explanation after watching the last two episodes. Oh yeah, everyone's mental state has all depleted. I wonder where this series is going to go in just two episodes. |
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| I didn't understood A THING about Adam, the EVAs and the Angels |
| Pretty sure the Evas are clones of the first angel Adam. Angels from Adam. Human/clones from Lilith. Lilith who is also an angel. Adam is an angel inserted with human DNA. So Evas were 'born' of Adam? Rei was cloned via Lilith, that angel in the basement. She's a 'lilun'. Humans are 'lilun'. Kaworu? Made from Adam and not Lilith like Rei. But if Adam is part of Gendou then Gendou put in the recovered piece of Adam brought by Kaji into himself? (Hence his hand). To turn into an angel? But why? This is my brain trying to work all this out. Everyone is mentally degrading. Poor Asuka and her past, her fallen from her own state of grace along with the loss of Kaji. Poor Rei, a clone of herself, part Yui (Shinji's mom who merged with unit 01)...part angel, part nothing. Poor Shinji, discovering the truth of Rei/his mother/the evas/his father/NERV. Being so alone. Alone enough to let anyone who is kind to him close to him: Kaworu. Kaworu who gives him paternal love and affection so openly. He's so lonely he lets an angel close to him. Making Kaworu the same as Gendou, betraying and hurting Shinji...Yet it was different. Shinji had respect for Kaworu born out of affection and kindness. Poor Ritsuko, being with Gendou, whom her mother was also with, whom Yui was with...(Yui who is also ...Rei, sort of). The AT field is the wall of the soul but also equates our loneliness as it keeps people at a distance. Though, my only unanswered query is...what does Seele want? What does Gendou want? What are the motives here and the ultimate 'goal'? |
Joony said: From my understanding, SEELE is evil. Though their objective seems to be the destruction of these angels, their true, ulterior motives are to create an autopilot system in Evas, so that they could be controlled without the need for opinionated, human pilots. So, Kaworu was created using Adam's genes (or soul), (which makes him an angel, and also asexual), to invade Central Dogma and fuse with Adam. Adam is the first "Angel" and Lilith is the second. Both angels and humans were created by them, respectively. We fight angels to maintain our dominion over earth, as both races cannot co-exist. Gendo grated the embrio-form Adam in his palm, so that, after he destroys all angels, he can ultimately become god. (Who knows why and how.) Rei and Kaworu were also created with Adam's genes/soul, so in that sense, Gendo and the two are "alike" and share a bond. The question is, whether Gendo created Rei, a pseudo Yui, to replace his wife, or to use her somehow in his 'Become-God' project. (I have a feeling the first Angel has something to do with it, thus, the embrio in his hand.) I may be off, but this is just my interpretation of it. This sounds very legit! Amazing interpretation. |
| Very confusing episode, but in the end, I think I understood the main points |
asdasdsadad |
| My man came and died just like that in a single episode. Lmao These awkward still shots are increasing every episode. >:( |
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| wow, they HAD to kill off the only cool guy in the anime thanks guys queerish themes in the 90's? could never have imagined. appreciate it. |
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| Asuka's synchronization rate has hit zero and boy does she look depressed. But she's being collected back by the NERV authorities? Wait so Akagi was making love with Gendoh? Dude wtf is with women falling for such a weird-ass man? First, it was Shinji's mom, then it was Akagi's mom then Akagi herself? Shinji finally gets to know and realizes that Rei and his mom are kinda the same since those are her clones. Kaworu Nagisa, the Fifth Children is here. I'm not sure if he's just really interested in Shinji or if he's bi/gay. Also, he's an Angel?!? An Angel in the form of a human? No wonder he has such a good grasp over an Eva. I can't believe he was killed in the same episode he was introduced in. That was a pretty brutal way to die too. Poor Shinji has lost all hope once again. |
 ◑ ━━━━━ ▣ ━━━━━ ◐ "Everything I've witnessed... This whole system you have built has always rejected me. Now I'm ready to reject it. That's why I destroy. That's why I took this power for myself. Simple enough, yeah? I don't care if you don't understand... That's what makes us... Heroes and Villains." ◑ ━━━━━ ▣ ━━━━━ ◐ |
| confused mainly about kowaru and some of the lore surrounding the angels (why did angels attack one at a time? why does kowaru look like a human?) but can't wait to see how episode 25 and 26 will payoff with a different mindset |
| good opinions on anything, block = I own you |
| 2022 Rewatch |
Fortress_MaximusApr 27, 2022 3:55 PM
 Novels I have read/am reading pending approval: since November 10 2022 |
| I see.. So we got a few important confirmations -- Ritsuko was sexually involved with Gendo.. who was also her mother's lover... ew -- There seems to be an Adam vs Lilith thing going on with Seele believing that Adam is the 'rightful' god and Lilith is bad? -- The crucified thing in the Dogma is actually Lilith and the little embryo thing that Kaji gave Gendo all that time ago is Adam, but now it looks like Gendo stuck Adam into his hand? -- Kaworu is an angel(?) directly descended from Adam whereas the humans on Earth are descended from Lilith, which explains why he kept calling everyone on earth Lilin --Eva-02 is made from Adam DNA which is why Kaworu was able to control it so easily Anywho, Kaworu's introduction as the 5th seemed very sudden and almost random? I know it's more or less meant to be something Seele planned and Kaworu did arrive at an opportune time for Shinji since he felt like he didn't have anyone else to turn to and Kaworu essentially embodied all the affection and kindness that Shinji had been so desperately craving. Although I feel like more development would have been nice? It seemed like Kaworu was able to perfectly read Shinji's mental state and insecurities almost instantly and Shinji was automatically smitten. I guess part of it COULD boil down to how, as a close descendent of Adam, Kaworu comes across as this 'perfect' entity. Even certain lines like "worthy of my affection" or in some translations he literally says "worthy of my grace" which clearly lean towards the religious realm. That in mind, you could argue that Shinji's feelings for Kaworu were a combination of needing unconditional affection from someone AND Kaworu coming across as this holy being. But even then, we don't really see any other characters view Kaworu as some divine creature -- if anything, everyone else found him creepy and Rei of all people even seemed weirded out by him. So THEN if Shinji's feelings for Kaworu were solely ingrained in his need for love and affection, couldn't his emotional breakdown at the end be seen as sort of.. melodramatic? Like he knew this dude for one day (maybe even less) and suddenly he regrets saving humanity because he thought Kaworu 'deserved' to live more than he did... Shinji even knows that Kaworu's love and affection was all a stunt to enact his plan ordered by Seele. Even Kaworu's whole 'kill me to save humanity' thing seemed like a cop-out because he realized Adam wasn't in central dogma and that there was no point to continue on since he had effectively lost. He was only genuinely appreciative of Shinji at the very end because he wanted to die and Shinji was able to grant him that wish. Finally, to top things off, when Misato tries to comfort him Shinji calls her 'cold' -- DUDE WTF? Misato isn't perfect, but she sure as hell cares for Shinji. She's taken him in and been as hospitable as possible since day one. I mean she even lashed out and slapped Ritsuko on TWO separate occasions and cussed out Nerv as a whole when Shinji was placed in fatal danger. Jesus, she even came and listened to Shinji cry about his dead boyfriendo-chan in front of a lake in the middle of the night just to offer some type of comfort and support BECAUSE SHE KNOWS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO LOSE SOMEONE |
tiaamyomMay 25, 2022 2:45 AM
sponny said: wow, they HAD to kill off the only cool guy in the anime thanks guys queerish themes in the 90's? could never have imagined. appreciate it. I feel you, but Kaworu was never 'in love' with Shinji. It was all an act orchestrated by Seele. Kaworu was sent in at the perfect moment to get close to Shinji so that Shinji could destroy Unit-02 and Kaworu could fuse with Adam in Central Dogma. |
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