Goblin Slayer Episode 8 Discussion

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Nov 2013

20892

Protoz said:
is the physics behind combustible fine flour real?

Yes. It's called dust explosion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion

You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright
This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi

Nov 28, 2018 7:41 AM

#258

GosuDRM

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Dec 2012

2953

Priestess: "Did you see!?"
Goblin Slayer: "Yeah" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Nov 28, 2018 8:56 AM

#259

removed-user

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Jul 2018

562462

he will soon be the hentai mc we need with these looks, this show trys to be everything but doesnt commit to something at all and why does the witch girl talk like a retard, its so annoying, if they are trying to make her unique they definitly did it.

removed-userNov 28, 2018 9:12 AM

Nov 28, 2018 9:15 AM

#260

Only_Brad

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May 2018

1811

Chrome_Falcon said:
The whole flour thing wouldn't have worked if
-the enemy was mobile
-if it was not a small room with a single door which can be closed
-goblin slayer himself said it wouldn't work against goblins
Then why did he go to the trouble of ordering it from another town when he did not know the nature of the enemy he was going to encounter?

Read back what he said. He said IF it ignites or explode to soon it'll be useless against goblin. He never said it's useless against goblin all the time. He was actually gonna use this against goblin, at least that what he said to the lancer dude.

Nov 28, 2018 9:54 AM

#261

Katsuki_Kagure

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May 2015

Is can someone can tell me why onna sinkan sleep and naked with goblin slayer, and goblin slayer that how it feel sleep with virgin girl. Is goblin slayer have sex with onna sinkan? Anyone can describe the details, I'm really confused

Nov 28, 2018 10:41 AM

#262

Chrome_Falcon

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Jun 2017

748

Only_Brad said:

Okay. I missed that part. Now it is a bit better. Thanks.

Nov 28, 2018 10:50 AM

#263

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Nov 2013

20892

Katsuki_Kagure said:
Is can someone can tell me why onna sinkan sleep and naked with goblin slayer, and goblin slayer that how it feel sleep with virgin girl. Is goblin slayer have sex with onna sinkan? Anyone can describe the details, I'm really confused

The miracle "Resurrection" requires a virgin to work. Sword Maiden performed the miracle, Priestess contributed the virgin element. Goblin Slayer didn't have sex with her, since he was unconscious. Also don't take resurrection literally, it can't bring a person back from the dead, "only" bring back a person from the brink of death.

You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright
This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi

Nov 28, 2018 1:14 PM

#264

Monchete99

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Aug 2017

TheBigGuy said:

Monchete99 said:
Liked the episode, even if it wasn't the most action packed, but the Beholder scene was ok (btw, flour CAN do that), GS's master reminds me of Splitter and the Priestess is protecc/10 onward

Indeed. I like how he used the principle of a dust explosion to kill the Beholder. You mean Splinter?

I agree about Priestess. The brainfreeze. :)

It reminded me of the Beholder from Epic Battle Fantasy

WILL YOU STOP WHINING!?
No I don't understand! You snap at people, you're scary, you tried to eat me, but you're also kind and you're filled with life!
You gave me a name when I was a number, you gave me that compass, you taught me what it means to be alive!
That's why I care about you Velvet! I'll protect you for my own sake. I don't care if you're malevolent, or if it was pointless! If it's a mistake to love you, then I"ll fight the whole world! A world without you, Velvet, is the one thing I couldn't bear!
Eat my arm, just leave me the other one! I need it to clobber the jerk who made my Velvet cry!
-Laphicet, Tales of Berseria

Nov 28, 2018 1:35 PM

#265

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Nov 2013

20892

Monchete99 said:

TheBigGuy said:

Indeed. I like how he used the principle of a dust explosion to kill the Beholder. You mean Splinter?

I agree about Priestess. The brainfreeze. :)

It reminded me of the Beholder from Epic Battle Fantasy

Interesting. A few extra eyes can't hurt, I guess.

SAO Re: Hollow Fragment has a similar enemy too.

You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright
This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi

Nov 28, 2018 3:29 PM

#266

dantex11

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Jul 2016

papsoshea said:

GreenNet said:
@Papsoshea

But I never said that...and i read everything you wrote. Also, i clearly adressed every point you made so...What?

For example the scroll wasn't at all a Deus Ex Machina but you keep saying it is. You keep saying that the Goblin Slayer is a Gary Stu/Mary Sue when clearly it's not.

But you did, you didn't clearly address everything either - your first response on my wall was cherry picking, then after I called you b.s out, then you replied to every point in even more poorer English + turning everything into a red-herring argument. The scroll was Deus Ex Machina and Goblin Slayer is a Mary Sue, deal with it.

FreezePeach said:

The fact that this world has "miracles" performed by priests was established in the first 5 minutes of episode 1.

This is where your argument falls flat, basically, every single thing that doesn't make sense from a meta point of view is that we can easily refer everything to "miracles" which that in itself isn't even explained properly. As stated, "The literary device of deus ex machina means to solve a seemingly intractable problem in a plot by adding in an unexpected character, object, or situation. Deus ex machina often has the sense of being quite contrived, as it seems like the author must resort to something that he or she did not set up properly plot-wise." The rest of your argument is something I can use to literally explain other Deus Ex Machina in other series aren't actually Deus Ex Machina.

When I watched the first 2 episodes of the Slime anime, admitted I was bored to death because of the constant info dumps but AT LEAST that show has enough inworld consistency and properly set up its laws and rules so most of the ridiculous things Rimuru or anyone does so far isn't a Deus Ex Machina. Not everything has to be explained but stuff like this does, with proper setup.

DonTrumpolino said:
Was there a need to remind us that goblins rape? Like jeez, they are really pushing their fanbase by all that retrospective storytelling and the rather blatant waifu-fanservice. It's a wonder the elf wasn't in that bed, too. But did they have the balls to talk about sex here, when he meant "sharing a bad with a trope, I mean virgin" or was it maybe a phrase of which meaning I didn't get?

The results of bad writing. Why do they have to be naked if all they have to do is share a bed? Are the so-called "Gods" voyeuristic perverts?

wait how the fuck is goblin slayer a mary sue?

Nov 28, 2018 4:10 PM

#267

Lu4n4264

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May 2018

313

Oh, Goblin Slayer's past is so gloomy ... I enjoyed the battle with the Giant Eye.

"No matter where you go, everyone's connected." Iwakura, Lain.

Nov 28, 2018 4:49 PM

#268

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Aug 2018

121

@Papsoshea

I meant when i actually tried to answer to every point you made before, not on this board. Since...well, you say the SAME things here.

Anyway, Deus Ex Machina as Tv tropes said:

Deus ex Machina are external to the characters and their choices throughout the story. The solution comes from a character with small or non-existent influence on the plot until that point or random chance from nature or karma.

Or:

A person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty

The scroll had a setup, an explanation on what it was before the use and it
used with the intention of using it by Goblin Slayer.

About the Mary Sue thing:

Goblin Slayer is not perfect by any means. His dark and troubled past is never used to gather people around him or attention towards him and instead hunts him. By far isn't the strongest character in the series, doesn't possess any weird power or unique ability and achieved his strenght only with training and pragmatism.

His life is not a good life. So hardly it could be power fantasy. A mary sue lack weaknesses and flaws. GS is full of those.

So no. Even if you say "What i said it's a fact deal with it" you are wrong.

GreenNetNov 28, 2018 4:59 PM

Nov 28, 2018 6:27 PM

#269

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253

It's no use debating papaoshea. If Goblin Slayer took a right turn, papaoshea would complain it didn't take a left. If it needed to take a detour to avoid an accident, Papaoshea would whine about not taking the more direct route past the accident.

Nov 28, 2018 10:20 PM

#270

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253

I wish I could not read Papaoshea's comments, but this forum doesn't have an ignore button.

Nov 29, 2018 2:29 AM

#271

Mattinator95

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Jan 2018

4855

This is a very lazy adaption of the LN

Nov 29, 2018 5:48 AM

#272

TehManiac

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Mar 2016

156

I mean... it was ok... nothing really happened in this episode. A lot of useless fanservice too....

Nov 29, 2018 6:47 AM

#273

Specialist11

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Jun 2014

Can somebody tell me y the witch lady speaks like that?

Nov 29, 2018 7:31 AM

#274

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Specialist11 said:
Can somebody tell me y the witch lady speaks like that?

Someone mentioned, that she speaks like that to not involuntarily invoke a spell. Or she's stoned from whatever she has in her pipe.

You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright
This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi

Nov 29, 2018 7:38 AM

#275

Specialist11

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Jun 2014

TheBigGuy said:

Specialist11 said:
Can somebody tell me y the witch lady speaks like that?

Someone mentioned, that she speaks like that to not involuntarily invoke a spell. Or she's stoned from whatever she has in her pipe.

Lmaooo stoned from her pipe! Thats great! I have also heard that it was not to use a spell accidentally. That is a good explanation.

Nov 29, 2018 7:46 AM

#276

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Nov 2013

20892

Specialist11 said:

TheBigGuy said:

Someone mentioned, that she speaks like that to not involuntarily invoke a spell. Or she's stoned from whatever she has in her pipe.

Lmaooo stoned from her pipe! Thats great! I have also heard that it was not to use a spell accidentally. That is a good explanation.

I agree.

Well, witches or herb women are known to have great knowledge regarding healing and "stimulating" herbs, so it wouldn't be unthinkable. ;)

You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright
This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi

Nov 29, 2018 8:03 AM

#277

lesterf1020

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Sep 2008

UTJeff316 said:
I wish I could not read Papaoshea's comments, but this forum doesn't have an ignore button.

I have been seeing comments like this for a while and I am confused since I have been ignoring several people for months now. At the bottom of the forum settings there is a section where you can decide to ignore up to 30 people. I use it all the time. Is it not available to you?

Nov 29, 2018 8:11 AM

#278

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Aug 2018

121

papsoshea said:
@GreenNet

No, you said that on my wall, that you did not go over all of my points and after I pointed this out, it forced you to attempt to answer every point - red-herring, bad English and taking things out of context - you know? Your bad english where you were misunderstanding simple things and you even agreed to it, you were even making arguments that I didn't make.

Deus ex Machina definition: an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel.

Deus ex machina (Latin: [ˈdeʊs ɛks ˈmaː.kʰɪ.naː]: /ˈdeɪ.əs ɛks ˈmɑːkiːnə/ or /ˈdiːəs ɛks ˈmækɪnə/;[1] plural: dei ex machina; English ‘god from the machine’) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected and seemingly unlikely occurrence, typically so much as to seem contrived.[2][3] Its function can be to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending, or act as a comedic device.

Please, this is old. You didn't even give all the examples used on tv tropes either, you listed out 2 - https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeusExMachina

It is Deus ex Machina:

1. The first mention of it was from the Sorceress, she said Goblin Slayer needed help with a scroll (no details).
2. Campfire, Goblin told Elf not to touch it nor did he explain it.
3. He then uses it, to defeat the Ogre (I have a plan) when he could have done it at any time, the fighting before was used to create a false sense of hopelessness. FYI we are talking about the anime here (Episode 3-4, I rewatched just now for argument's sake).
4. He then explains what the scroll was and how he used it after it sliced up the Ogre, basically its an escape route, a safety measure BUT he used it unconventionally, he had this power all along.

This fits the conditions for Dues ex Machina. This is used against an opponent he has never fought before. And an Ogre's power level is miles ahead of anything at this point, even the Goblin Champion in episode 7. It's so contrived, in any other series, this is called bad and lazy writing.

Now,

Mary Sue definition: A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Often, this character is recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment.[1] They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero. A male can also be referred to as a Marty Stu, Larry Stu, or Gary Stu, but the name Mary Sue is more commonly used.[2][3][4]

Tv Troupes (you like to use it) has many examples and the different uses for it, Goblin Slayer fits more than 1 - https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

I don't feel the need to explain the examples that I made over 5 times in this thread when it comes to Mary Sue. And what I actually said was, "The scroll was Deus Ex Machina and Goblin Slayer is a Mary Sue, deal with it." and I was right, and you should just deal it. Move on.

-----

UTJeff316 said:
It's no use debating papaoshea. If Goblin Slayer took a right turn, papaoshea would complain it didn't take a left. If it needed to take a detour to avoid an accident, Papaoshea would whine about not taking the more direct route past the accident.

You said there is no use a few times, even GreenNet, you even encourage people to ignore but you can't ignore yourselves. You both have made this argument in the past, "Don't like? Don't watch!" and it's a stupid argument because I can easily respond with saying, if you don't like my comments, then don't read them. And I mean you'd have a point if Goblin Slayer took a right turn, of needed to take a detour to avoid an accident, but you know, it hasn't. My points have stayed the same since the start. And again, look in the past few pages, I have already debated with fans of the show where good points from both sides were made, better counter-arguments were made against mine than you two and others (the usual complainers about me) here have ever made, some things came down to a simple agree to disagree. They didn't act like you guys. Both of you should take your own advice that you give to others, stop being hypocrites.

Yes, on your wall. That's what i meant and after you asked me, i have definetly touched every point you made. Also can you stop bringing up my "shabby english"? You are using that almost as a shield. Jeez.

I don't need to use all the points of Tv Tropes since to be a Deus Ex Machina it should have touched all of them. That scroll wasn't unexpected at all. If they introduced the concept it's safe to assume it would have had a role later in the story.

The scene with the Sorceress hinted that there was something up to his sleeve. The scene at the campfire confirm that he has a scroll and that said scroll contains lost magic, stuff super rare that now is long gone.

And he doesn't use it right away because he possess only one of those and scrolls are pricy and rare, he did not wanted to waste it. As soon he understand that it was the only way to win, he used said scroll. It's completely logical.

About the the mary sue stuff. Only because a character fits some of those points it doesn't mean he is one. No one would want a life like Goblin Slayer, so i don't get why it should be a self-insert or a wish-fullfilment character.

Again, you are saying that you are right even if you are not. What kind of shitty attitude is that? I already said that you should stop to act all high and mighty. You don't have the truth in your pocket.

And i said, that you can shit all you want on the series, just to do it at the last episode if your points are going to be always the same every time with slight differences. You are not bringing anything new to the table. It's like you have an hate-boner for Goblin Slayer.

When i made that huge post on your wall i tried to be as polite as possible and i thought we agreed to disagree in the end. But it seems that no, my points are trash even tho you never actually demonstrated that i was wrong. You just, once again, said that you were right.

If this is poor writing the i can list plenty of other shows that have done the same things and are considered, even by you, much better.

GreenNetNov 29, 2018 8:15 AM

Nov 29, 2018 11:10 AM

#279

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253

lesterf1020 said:

UTJeff316 said:
I wish I could not read Papaoshea's comments, but this forum doesn't have an ignore button.

No don't see it on my end.

Who gives a crap about TV Tropes? It's not the be all end all for a what a show should and shouldn't do. Yeah I enjoy reading TV Tropes now and again, but it's not necessarily the best way to critique a show.

A deus ex machina isn't in and of itself a bad thing.

Nov 29, 2018 11:23 AM

#280

Rithik_Ram

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Jun 2016

The Goblin Slayer seems to me as a mix of Batman and Punisher. Always being prepared for what ever quest he is going with some failsafes in case it goes wrong and learning from others and his surroundings and using them for his mission, which is killing goblins.

There is a character who is quite close of being a Mary Sue in the series, the Chosen Heroine, who we see in the beginning of the 6th episode. In an usual anime type, we would be following her story and not the Goblin Slayer's one. His story is more about a broken person on a rightfully vengeful and yet self destructive quest, regaining his humanity through priestess who he saved and others.

Nov 29, 2018 12:18 PM

#281

Only_Brad

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May 2018

1811

UTJeff316 said:

lesterf1020 said:

If you're interested, I've made a script to hide users.

Nov 29, 2018 2:05 PM

#282

Reiaika

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Dec 2008

247

This was such a calm and cute episode ;o;!! That fanservice at the beginning though lmao,
I ship the priestess and GS, so while everyone gets more interested to the Sword Maiden it's the opposite for me ;u;

Nov 29, 2018 2:59 PM

#283

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Oct 2016

253

I don't base quality of any show based on TV Tropes entries. That's completely and utterly asinine.

Nov 29, 2018 3:49 PM

#284

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Aug 2018

121

@papsoshea

I read everything. I know what is a Deus Ex Machina and that Scroll wasn't one. Read again that source and you will see why it's not. It's right there, i don't understand why you insist on that.

These are the points required to call an event a Deus Ex Machina:

1) Deus ex Machina are solutions to a problem. They are never unexpected developments that make things worse, nor sudden twists that only change the understanding of a story.

This one is indeed touched. So far, yes it's a Deus Ex Machina.

2)Deus ex Machina are sudden or unexpected. This means that even if they are featured, referenced or set-up earlier in the story, they do not change the course of nor appear as a natural or a viable solution to the plotline they eventually "solve".

It wasn't unexpected and i don't think it could be defined unnatural, since it was already explained that this world have magic, magic scrolls that are very powerful exist and the rules of the world are similar to games like DeD. Also, magic scrolls used as teleport device are common in a fantasy setting.

3) Deus ex Machina are used to resolve a situation portrayed as unsolvable or hopeless. If the problem could be solved with a bit of common sense or other type of simple intervention, the solution is not a Deus ex Machina no matter how unexpected it may seem.

-Nothing to say here. This point was touched.

4) Deus ex Machina are external to the characters and their choices throughout the story. The solution comes from a character with small or non-existent influence on the plot until that point or random chance from nature or karma.

It wasn't external to the characters. Like i already said, Goblin Slayer the main character used something he knew he could use, he knew he had, we as public knew he had (even if not with all the specific details) and it wasn't by random chance.

So, since it only touched two of those points, the use of that scroll it's not a Deus Ex Machina.

On the Mary Sue thing. The term is super broad and the meaning of it can actually change from source to source. However a character CAN have a few characteristics of a Mary Sue but still not considered one. Because in that case overpowered or extremely beautiful characters couldn't be good characters from the get go but we know that's not true. Right?

Goblin Slayer is not a character that normally you would want to be. He is extremely awkward, doesn't know how to have normal relationships and never have the chance to actually relax since he is constantly scared and can't catch a break from his grand quest. To achieve his strenght he trained and risked his life and more than once alone he couldn't have won without help. He is not the best archer, cannot perform magic and it's not the best swordsman so you can't even call him OP or the best in anything.

Yes, he is handsome and have in some form an harem but he can't really enjoy it. And there is a reason for each one of the girls to be in love with him. (even if poor reasons at times, can't deny that) And to add one more thing, not EVERY girl he meet is in love with him. Sure, there are four-five but that number never go up and we have other girls in the story.

This. Is. Not. a. Mary Sue.

What i said was just a suggestion nothing more than that. Since clearly you are bothering the fans of the show i guess. But i never said you HAVE to do what i said. It just seem logical from my point of view.

I can hardly be a fanboy because i know and I acknowledge the problems of the series. I never said Goblin Slayer is perfect but i disagree with many other points that you made or others have made. You want a real Deus Ex Machina? The ritual as you said, was one. I will never disagree on that. It was.

Misplaced fanservice? Yeah, i agree.
Poor adaptation of the source material? Yes.
Too many characters lack common sense to make appear the main character smarter? Yes.

I am not the one who more than once attacked people who enjoy the series in a passive-agressive kind of way, basically looking down at them calling them edgelords, using pics to show how you perceive them by the way (As fat weebs, clearly intentional)

Again you are the kind of person who goes in more than one discussion here to say how trash this series is. Like it's not enough episode per episode? You also have to say "All these girls are trash" in a waifu poll, that is really necessary?

Ofcourse people at that point will get annoyed by you or your attitude. Or simply by the fact that you keep talking like you are some sort of autority. You always want to have the last word and if someone show you valid points you act in a
condescending way.

Come on now, say whatever you want about me, bring up again my english, treat me like a fool and once more say that you are right. I know you will.

GreenNetNov 29, 2018 4:05 PM

Nov 29, 2018 4:11 PM

#285

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Aug 2018

121

UTJeff316 said:
I don't base quality of any show based on TV Tropes entries. That's completely and utterly asinine.

I don't. But TV tropes offer a good definition of both terms. I also looked at the dictionary if that makes you feel better.

Nov 30, 2018 5:51 AM

#286

FreezePeach

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Nov 2018

258

UTJeff316 said:

lesterf1020 said:
I have been seeing comments like this for a while and I am confused since I have been ignoring several people for months now. At the bottom of the forum settings there is a section where you can decide to ignore up to 30 people. I use it all the time. Is it not available to you?

No don't see it on my end.

It works like charm. Click "Forum Settings" below search bar on the right top side of this page, scroll all the way down, the last item is "Ignored Users". Add the diarrhea guy there and he will vanish. Miracle. IRL Deus Ex Machina.

Nov 30, 2018 6:49 AM

#287

Deknijff

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Oct 2013

7918

papsoshea said:
What is the first thing you do when playing D&D?

Lol taking something from Snob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crMdItelxuw&t=296

Now it all makes sense why it feels like you dont pay attention to the show and just say stupid critic for the series. Its because its something Snob would say

@GreenNet

Nov 30, 2018 8:01 AM

#288

Deknijff

Offline

Oct 2013

7918

papsoshea said:
Names are a part of characterization, giving these characters the same names as their class types are poor.

it's because he couldn't come up with names he liked, so he decided to just give them titles

Its not really poor. As the author said. He couldn't think of a name he liked so he just calls them for what they are. Nothing wrong with that. Rather that than give them a name he doesn't like or feels doesn't fit the character. Now sure author could of given them names and still had characters call them by their role or class like the author of Shana did with several characters.
Snake of the Festival, Thousand Changes, Destructive Blade, Flame-Haired Burning-Eyed Hunter, Mobilizer of Ceremonial Equipment and Manipulator of Objects

Despite having names they're mostly referred to as by their title like if its their name. In the long run it doesn't really matter if a character has a name or title. Its simply a name really. What matters is that you know who is who.
Its like complaining Seryu in AGK is the only character with a last name

papsoshea said:
Lol, well If you read posts I had with several other fans, you would know I do pay attention to this show

Doesnt feel like that considering you saying Goblin Slayer has ass pulls since he has ideas based off of information he gathers from strangers which was even shown he does in the episode you complain that he reveals relevant information from his past to his teammates

papsoshea said:
even GreenNet came out and admitted to points I have made from the start that he previously defended

hmmmmm

If thats the case smh at you @GreenNet

also nah its not a problem that you use things from TAS papsoshea. I simply mentioned it because it brings great clarity to my mind regarding this situation right now

Nov 30, 2018 9:51 AM

#289

Deknijff

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Oct 2013

7918

papsoshea said:

Deknijff said:

Then this is a point we have to agree to disagree. If these characters had names it would significantly give them more characterization.

In what way exactly would it add to their characterisation in a significant way exactly? Characterisation is mostly based off of personality and displayed actions of the characters that they par take in the show. I fail to see how adding a name to Elf girl like Westwood, Tulle, Greenwood or Nilvalen adds to her character when its her actions and traits that define who she is and not her name

papsoshea said:
I am not familiar with Shana, but are those characters main characters? Well at least they have names, that would be something I'd personally point out as well. Their title names are detailed. Goblin Slayer is the name of the show. Priestess is a Priestess, a Lizard is a Lizard, a Swordsman is a Swordsman.

Yeah they all main characters except Mobilizer of Ceremonial Equipment and Destructive Blade

papsoshea said:
It's like naming a Dog, 'Dog' or giving a Cat the name, 'Cat'.

Upon seeing edit I agree that giving history to a characters name brings a greater detail to the universe of the series at least such as with Naruto's Clan name. But it doesn't add much to his character as in who he is as a person. Its like how Madara, Sasuke, Itachi or Obito have the same clan name yet they're vastly different to each other in overall characterisation. But yes I remember them mentioning Naruto despite being a Uzumaki not being blessed with the superior genes of the clan like with what his mother, Nagoto or even Karin has in what makes the clan special which I can't remember being relevant despite being brought up. But there is a lot of duality between Naruto and Nagoto which must be on purpose for the Pain arc and for what takes place afterwards

Nov 30, 2018 11:41 AM

#290

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Aug 2018

121

UTJeff316 said:

lesterf1020 said:

I get it. I just say it can be an useful tool. Not that is required to judge a series.

Nov 30, 2018 12:02 PM

#291

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Aug 2018

121

@papsoshea

Dude, you are honestly pathetic at this point. What i defended before i defend it again. My opinion on the series it's not changed at all.

Exactly to what points are you referring?

What you are saying doesn't make GS a mary sue, just a protagonist. Ofcourse things has to go well in the end for the main character (Or atleast survive) , you want him to die? Ok but the series it's over.
Find me a series that doesn't do this. Not many, you know why?
it would be fucking stupid.
Every solution GS comes up with makes sense. The whole theme that he rejects fate is something extremely badass and very japanese, it's not new. However he does know that he is not above every law of his world and sometimes he does rely on luck.

Now he is a Mary Sue because he know how to be a leader? Or because he had an heroic second wind? You are not describing a Mary Sue. And the people who want to be like him (even tho i did not saw anyone claim such thing) probably doesn't realize what a shitty life he has. Sure, it's getting better, over time and with help, but I don't think many would like to be a borderline autistic guy that lives in fear and doesn't know how to relax.

People have different taste. Maybe someone out there would want to be Gatsu or Subaru or i don't know Master Roshi even. That doesn't make them wish fulfillment characters in the broad sense of the term.

By the way, an eye for an eye? What are you, five or something? Since you tend to act as the mature and intelligent one here now you admit that you are being childish like those guys? You literally assumed that all the fans of the series are braindead.

Then again, i did not said you can't express your opinion just that you should not be surprised if you start to be annoying for the ones that enjoy the series. You are looking for attention. There are series i dislike but i don't make it a crusade and i start to go in every post to say "Yeah, yeah but you are wrong" or "yeah, yeah, but those things you like are trash"
Again, sure you can do it but then don't act as a victim because someone attack you.

GreenNetNov 30, 2018 5:54 PM

Nov 30, 2018 12:30 PM

#292

Offline

Oct 2016

253

Daniel Craig's character in Layer Cake doesn't even have a first or last name. His name in the credits is listed as XXXX.

There is no rule that says an author or storyteller has to conform to a set of rules about naming the characters.

Now, here, he opted not to. I mean you don't have to like that, but I think it adds a certain flavor to the story. Characters are named after their classes and jobs.

Also, Goblin Slayer shouldn't have any other name than Goblin Slayer. What else should be called? That is his true name IMO.

It was a deliberate choice. Someone else not liking it is wrong. That's their opinion, but the author did something different here.

But I mean what should you call Goblin Slayer? Call him Bob? James? Glenn Radars? That'd be stupid IMO. You call him Goblin Slayer. He is Goblin Slayer.

Nov 30, 2018 9:13 PM

#293

Tsunderela

Offline

Nov 2018

UTJeff316 said:
Daniel Craig's character in Layer Cake doesn't even have a first or last name. His name in the credits is listed as XXXX.

There is no rule that says an author or storyteller has to conform to a set of rules about naming the characters.

Now, here, he opted not to. I mean you don't have to like that, but I think it adds a certain flavor to the story. Characters are named after their classes and jobs.

Also, Goblin Slayer shouldn't have any other name than Goblin Slayer. What else should be called? That is his true name IMO.

It was a deliberate choice. Someone else not liking it is wrong. That's their opinion, but the author did something different here.

But I mean what should you call Goblin Slayer? Call him Bob? James? Glenn Radars? That'd be stupid IMO. You call him Goblin Slayer. He is Goblin Slayer.

Every story has a cliche or trope, however breaking unofficial rules like naming conventions or killing off the "MC" of a work of fiction does not make it good, and if done badly, people should be criticizing these narrative choices. There should always be a reason for WHY the author decided to be different, if you can't discern "Why", than the choice behind it is meaningless.

Dec 1, 2018 8:22 AM

#294

Offline

Aug 2018

121

@papsoshea

The main party doesn't seem too dumb to me. Except High Elf Girl and she has her reasons. What i mean when characters lack common sense it's mostly the ones that are used as a tool, like for example the party of the first episode.
I can see why and how someone could be that naive buti don't like too much when the series shows so many rookies to be like that and at times pro aswell.

So, yes many characters lack common sense but the main party isn't composed by idiots nor the entire world. GS is the one who has the most experience with Goblins so it make sense he would be the leader in such missions. They do stuff alone aswell, they scouted without GS the sewers and came back without a scratch, if we use the novel we see them take on missions without GS.
And they also can take intiative (Lizard Priest saving Priestess, Dwarf saving High Elf, High Elf covering Lizard Priest to open his path, figuring out the spells that the beholder could use)

They are generic? Yeah more or less but like i said, they are fun to watch because of their interactions and they work well as a team.

I never defended completely the scene where Sword Maiden talk about her past. It is better in the novel since it clearly shows she is broken to the point her head is so fucked that she thinks a good way of seducing a man would be talk about her rape experience. While in the anime it wasn't well conveyed.

I defended the rape scene of episode one tho, since i think that one wasn't used as fanservice at all. So no, my points are the same as before.

Again it doesn't make him a mary sue. You gave points that simply don't define a Mary Sue. And ofcourse now it's you that are ignoring my points.

Walking Deus Ex Machina doesn't mean a character is a mary sue. And, a character can't be a walking Deus Ex Machina because a Deus Ex Machina is an event, someone or something that is unexpected and used to resolve a drammatic situation in a unnatural way.

Everything GS does make sense and doesn't pop out from nowhere. Having an Heroic Second Wind is something common in every story and happens also in real life. The fact he rejects the dice is a cool way to say that more than once he avoided to die because he was prepared but he is not completely above. ( for example he would have died if the coffin he hit with his back in episode 7 wouln't have been empty, that was luck)

Ofcourse everyone wants to be a cool hero but Goblin Slayer is far from being one (or atleast one you would want to be). If we decide to follow such a logic, every cool hero would be a wish-fullfillment character. Goblin Slayer does have a personality, it's just subtle.

If i wanted to be a cool hero, why should i decide to be him and not someone who is actually powerful and doesn't risk his neck even against simple monsters?

A wish fullfillment character is someone who is the strongest around. The smartest. The most popular one. Maybe even rich and without a trauma that actually hunts them in their everyday life.

Goblin Slayer is not the best in any area. Aside maybe killing goblins.

Also i never said to anyone to ignore you dude. I said that to myself (And i am doing a poor job at that) so i don't exactly see where is my hypocrisy in all of this. Are you sure it was me?

And that example is not really a good example. Basically those two things were things that in the end you both agreed on. So yeah, ofcourse you can be rational...when people actually say that you are right or says something that you already think it's true.

My last response it is what it is. Emotional? not really. Just stating a fact, that you are acting like a kid because someone attacked you. You don't play the victim? Then why you mentioned more than once things like "Papsohea hate train" ? Say "an eye for an eye" put yourself on the same level of the people that attacked you in the first place.

And what does even mean people get annoyed because they choose to get annoyed? You know that is not how things work right?

GreenNetDec 1, 2018 8:31 AM

Dec 1, 2018 2:51 PM

#295

Offline

Aug 2018

121

@Papsoshea

1) First of all, that world is not OUR world. You don't take into account the fact that there is ignorance. Internet is not a thing either, it's just stories, tales and books for people who live in the city.

There are cases of naive guys like the party in the first episode and we also see rookies that aren't dumb like the couple of Porcelain Rank that avoided goblin quests to gain experience again the Giant Rats.
You have an example of both. In real life we have many examples of dumb people so i don't see why it should be any different in that world.

Scouted probably implied some killing aswell since it was a place full of Goblins. Most likely they cleared the path. You can really fault them to rely on the guy, he is prepared and knows well how Goblins act. Like i said, the novel shows us atleast two missions where GS is not there and they are efficent. But since the Novel it's not important in this case as you say, think about GS as the
strategist of the group.
In episode six the Dwarf also decide alone to use the stone blast on the boat. The manga clarify that it was his own idea and ask GS to buy him some time to prepare the spell.

Since the GS is the protagonist ofcourse they will show more his creativity than the others but they have their moments.

2)

You say that they are boring but that is entirely subjective. I see many and many people that enjoy their banter. The classic Elf-Dwarf back and fort, all the interactions GS has turn out to be comical since he is so one-track minded and so on.

We don't have backstory sure (for now but that's another thing) yet that is not a problem. It's not our focus right now. A show called Goblin Slayer you think needed right of the bat deep characters and felshed out backstory? No. I care about these guys because they are fun to watch.

We also know their aspirations. Goblin Slayer wants to wipe out all the goblins in the wrold, the High Elf wants to discover new things have adventures and she is curious about stuff she can't understand, Priestess follow GS because he is her saviour and she developed an hero worship complex in his regard, Dwarf wants money to taste every food he can find and Lizard Priest want to honor his ancestors and one day become a Dragon. There.

Besides they are meme machines so it make sense why people find them funny.

3)

The show is Bitonal. When they are in a city or a town or a place where they are safe it's more likely they will joke around and have comedic skits but when there are serious scenes they are treated as such. The ONLY scene that create a problem was the sword maiden one. Specifically the bed scene. I already said i did not liked how they portrayed that scene but the rest of the series don't have other examples.
They started to joke around when they found the Elf in episode 4? Ofcourse not. And there wasn't a close shot of her boobs or something like that either.
They can show fanservice if the context isn't dark.

Akame Ga Kill isn't a fair comparison because it's much less balanced. The first scene that comes to mind is the one where Tatsumi has an emotional scene with his dead friend and literally two seconds later they joke around and treat the moment like a comedic skit and there are many and many more examples in that series than in this one.

Goblin Slayer does fall in that problem sometimes but not so often and not in such a drastic way. Again the anime couldn't convey the scene in a proper way in my opinon but it's like a one time thing.

Again i wil try to not bring up the novel or the manga in this.

4)

Sigh, i don't know how to face this argument with you. You said the novel doesn't matter right? Neither the manga. But for the sake of the argument i will use all three sources.

Let's start with the fanservice. I defend the fanservice in the series (from the cowgirl wake up scenes to the suggestive shots of Sorceress) because those moments are light hearted and nothing dark is happening there or nothing delicate is touched. I like them? Not really, those were almost lazy and comical but they were not a problem for the narrative.

Now let's move on the famous rape scene. We have Novel, manga and anime.

About the novel you can't say a damn thing. It was described very quickly, nothing explicit was said and everything was mostly implied.

The manga is totally at fault instead. The mangaka clearly exagerrated the scene giving to it too much space and making a particular panel way too ecchi for such a critical moment. I never defended the scene in the manga and i was actually really disgusted by the prequel where the author did even worse. But that is entirely on the part of the artists and gladly things get better later on.

The anime treated the rape scene properly in my opinion (well not perfectly but again it's always risky treat a rape scene) . You don't have a close shot of the girl's sexy parts, don't see nipples, the scene is quick and make a point to show blood to turn off the normal viewer. It's literally 30/40 seconds and has to make you understand clearly what is happening. The fact that the girl was ass up it's because the goblins wanted her to be in that position, because the are despicable creatures. Even someone who enjoy that kind of stuff how should get off to that scene? it's so quick, dark and lack any sort of suggestive shot. The one with her ass in the air is not erotic, it lacked any sort of detail.

Another point for the anime is that the anime skipped the entire fate of an all female party in the second episode and thank god because that was by far the lowest point of the manga. The anime never showed a rape scene again. Only implied ones. So, no...it wasn't fanservice.

5) Jeez. No, that is not a Mary Sue.

And what's that...? Now you are the one using examples and comparing series? I thought that it was a sign that i wasn't confident in the writing of the series i am defending by doing such a thing but i guess you can.

I saw the Tv trope list and same list also explain that it's diffcult to define a mary sure because it's important the context and the execution of said character. Like i said already even if some of those points were touched that doesn't make him a mary sue.

let's use the dictionary:

---(fandom slang) A fictional character, usually female, whose implausible talents and likeableness weaken the story.---

The talents of Goblin Slayer are not implausible and don't weaken the story. He is liked by some for reasons that are entirely logical and honestly he is not annoying, nor the author forced us to like him with his writing.

Another dictionary says:

--a type of female character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses.---

And i can demonstrate that GS is full of flaws and weaknesses.

Let's dive in even more definitions of the term shall we?

--A Mary Sue is a fictional character who is so perfect as to be unrealistic. A Mary Sue is a character who has no weaknesses, who performs heroically and perfectly in every situation. This sort of character is usually considered to be a form of wish-fulfillment on the part of the author--

Goblin Slayer more than once experienced failure and i never saw him as unrealisitic, exactly what part of him is unrealstic? He has good aim, normal strenght and is quite creative. Hardly can be considere a man who someone would want to be. The really good thing about his life is that attracts women but he don't care. Maybe at the end of the story he will overcome is trauma and bone each one of the girls, only then he will become a possible character who you want to be.

Kirito skills on the other hand make no sense. This scrawny kid who was just a loner is able to best everyone in every game.

He is the absolute greatest player ever and ok, he is a genius kiddo. Then he is also a genuis with computers and is able to hack a super-mega-complex virtual reality game in a mater of SECONDS. The sheer amount of girls who like him is stupid. We passed the double digit number and the number keep going up sometime with more or less a reason but sometimes it just happen. And even if he is engaged the girls still wait for him! Atleast GS is free.

Then he has a nice house, a cute girlfriend, he is also good at sports (in the movie there was finally a moment where they made a point that actually he is not good in real life but completely destroyed it by the end of said movie with a montage training and becoming once again the super best) we know he will becoming rich because he is the one who will invent the technology of Accel World.

So...no, kirito is an Ace in his world while Goblin Slayer is in the middle and something below even.

6 and 7)

Ok let me explain. The way the series is written clearly make you understand how the GS is able to defy the dice of the gods sometimes because he planned ahead of time. It's all a cool way to say "This guy tries to make the potential of dying or losing super low"
But he is not completely above luck and chance. He said so himself later on.
The very same gods sometimes think that an adventurer died when they roll a 1 and instead he survive,.

I admit that defy the dice can be called Deus Ex Machina but the way the GS did such a thing never once was illogical or impossible. It's not like he used weird powers or magic forces that never existed. The line is in the end nothing more than a "Cool line" the moment where they explain such thing was quite badass and sometimes we accept stuff if those things can entertain us. Gurren Laggan is completely illogical but it's so badass we don't care.

Again now don't use this argument to say "yes but the tone..." or something like that. It's not the point.
What am i saying is everyone in that world have the potential to defy the dice. because the way GS did it never once was groundbreaking or defied the laws of the world. Mostly he work around a bad roll.
Example: the dice is a 3 your hand gets smashed by a club to the bone and you can't handle any weapon anymore. You are alone against a goblin champion, you are fucked.

GS: ok then i use the bone that is popping out of my arm as a weapon to pierce the eye of the Goblin once he go for another hit.

Deus Ex Machina: Goblin Slayer is granted by the gods a new power to defeat the enemy and save his own life from an horrible fate.

That's more like it. It's the same as Berserk in that case, if we use the argument you are making Gatsu is a guy who literally defied fate. His very existence shouldn't be possible. He survive to impossible shit and that's all fine and dandy? And if Gatsu can't be used i have a list of other examples, don't worry.

Goblin Slayer always got fucked by those hits. Why he did not died? He has armor and potions and used both. One hit and went down, it's not impossible that he survived those hits. I mean, in real life there are people who survive a fallings from several meters or being hit by a car. It's not like he was running afterwards, he had to rest and sleep several days after the battle and to keep fighting he had to use potions.

And the things he does aren't impossible. The fact that he used hair as a garrote was really something he needed to explain before? The use of gas and poison? The show wants to surprise you but more than a few were able to figure out what he was going to do with the bag of flour. At first he doesn't reveal what he is going to do to his party because he is a paranoid that fear they could tell those things to the goblinsif they got captured. Later in the story he often informs them. Dwarf always catch it before he can explain it.

8)

I for once, don't think his personality is dull but this is if we talk about the novel so ergh. Certainly a guy like him would interest me quite a bit even in real life because he is so weird.

CowGirl often saw his face. He is handsome, care a lot about her in his own weird way and he is literally the last link she has with her past life. She had a crush on him when they were kids and belived he was dead for a long time. The death of her parents also made her shut down until the day she discovered he was still alive and gave her some happiness. To me it's entirely possible to understand why she would love him.

Sword Maiden is a broken woman that nobody can understand. Nobody offered to her the support she needed because they think she is so powerful that nothing could actually harm her or scare her.
Then this brave knight in shining armor arrive and "save her" in his own weird way. He says a particular line that makes you understand why she would cherish him. He is literally her beacon of hope. And she is also insane so there is that too.

Priestess had her life saved by him and not only that he literally took her under his protective wing, teaching her and protecting her. And she saw his face.

Guild Girl make no sense and High Elf Girl either. So it's more or less half and half.

I read that TV trope page. It clearly state that a wish-fullfillment character is not per se a bad thing. But ofcourse! Because following your logic every isekai protagonist, every battle shonen main character, every superhero and more characters would be one.

But that is still ridiculous because aside attracting hot girls GS has nothing great about himself. he posses great knowledge because he is a curious guy but there are other adventures who are just as smart or just as prepared (Wizard guy later on, Wizard girl in the prequel, Heavy warrior, Spearman, his master)
And so many are stronger than him.

You are being silly now. You used a source that explain my point. It would be bad if these things had no balance at all. And evey thing GS earn and possess it's always because he works for it.

9)

Ok now i am almost sure. No, i have not made any post saying that people should ignore you. Or if i did, it was because someone took it too much at heart and it was a suggestion for them to say "hey don't mind too much haters, it will ruin your guts"
But really, i never actively said people should ignore you or treat you as a joke or anything.

I used the "don't like it, don't watch it" argument but i also added something afterwards. I clearly stated it was a suggestion that, if you wanted to shit on a series, do it at the end of it. So you have all the picture and you don't bother too much the people who are enjoying it. But it was a suggestion, nothing more.

I don't like Sword Art Online and i said what i thought about it only at the end of each season. But again and i don't know how can i be more clear than this, it was just a suggestion. Not an order.

You say i cherry pick but no, i actually don't. Sometimes i just forget a point and focus on something else, that's why i prefer to talk about things point for point and not saying everything together. it gets confusing and long.
When i tried to answer every point you made, i ignored the first ones because you created a problem only on the things i missed so i thought that we agreed on those things you did not mentioned.

Now you say these are your opinion and are valid only for yourself but stuff like a "mary sue character" or the use of multiple deus ex machina, are objectively a bad thing and since i think there are a few things you said that were wrong, i try to explain why. It doesn't help the fact that your attitude also did not helped anyone understand you were speaking for yourself. You say things like they are an absolute fact and if you don't care about the opinion of others then you wouldn't write review after reviev for each episode.

What you say and what you do are not really in sync. Then sometimes yes probably i did not explained myself properly at times that is possible but it's not often as you claim to be.

Yeah, i am not going to waste my time like that. Sorry.
I like to discuss and all but now let's not be silly. You used that screenshot atleast twice so thought that piece was your best example.

I mean, no. We are behing a computer...you think you know how i handle stuff in my life? i am super chill. It's one of those problmes of the internet where you can't read the actual tone i am using.

You say i am acting like a kid but i never started my arguments with insults. I was always polite (even if i slipped a few times)
If someone says something i don't like or i disgree with, i rise my hand and try to understand why they think in that way. If i don't like the answer or such an answer is not logical or it's a lie, i point out why it is.

And i don't like double standards either. You sound biased as hell.

I never said you are an idiot, called you an SJW ot anything like that. Indeed i can't ignore you because i dislike the way you present your opinions and attitude. It's just the way i am, it looks to me that you spread lies when you say things that are objectively wrong. (My point of view ofcourse)

And no...for the last time. I am not a fanboy. I am a fan, i like a lot the series and all but i never said this story is the greatest thing ever. I know the problems of it, i know why people might dislike it and i don't lack objectivity.

Probably if i started to list the problems i have with the series you would start to take me more seriously?

A fanboy would never aknowledge the problems of the series and would never admit this is not the greatest thing ever. I enjoy it a lot but i can be objective. I simply take Goblin Slayer for what it is.

I don't know if i will use the same amount of effort for episode 9. Maybe i will, maybe not. I dunno. It's possible.

I wrote too much so forgive me for the mistakes. I don't wanna go back and correct my grammar. Hopefully it will be clear.

GreenNetDec 1, 2018 3:17 PM

Dec 2, 2018 7:01 AM

#296

PrimeX

Offline

Jul 2013

9478

Why is Goblin Slayer's master a goblin? More importantly, how? I'm not surprised though csuse in the previous episode people here were talking about exactly that so thanks guys. Also what exactly happened between Goblin Slayer, that loli priest, and Sword perky-tits maiden? Was is a 3some or nah?

Dec 2, 2018 7:08 AM

#297

Offline

Nov 2013

20892

PrimeX said:
Why is Goblin Slayer's master a goblin? More importantly, how? I'm not surprised though csuse in the previous episode people here were talking about exactly that so thanks guys. Also what exactly happened between Goblin Slayer, that loli priest, and Sword perky-tits maiden? Was is a 3some or nah?

He isn't. He's a Rhea (halfling).

He was unconscious and they were only lying in bed together.

You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright
This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi

Dec 2, 2018 10:42 AM

#298

WolfWood37

Offline

Jul 2008

11093

Farm girl for best girl.

Instead of explosions, they should have just had Archer shoot it till it died. No problem.

Dec 2, 2018 1:30 PM

#299