traed said: Basically more like how it was but making CE more restrictive and rules everywhere else that would take care of troublesome users. For example a rule against recruitment. Yes I get what you mean and already considered how they would still want to discuss things on broader context in CE and I'm not saying to make it so they can't say their opinion related to the event but rather can't use the event to make generalized statements to back their views if those views are hate ideology or bringing up similar old events that aren't even related unless it's a direct comparison which should be ok. That's kind of already in the current rules just not applied as well as it could be since it only applies to the OP. I know it's tricky to work out what i am saying into something usable. I've said it before Im better at broad ideas than the exact detail of application. I have a chaotic thought process so it's difficult for some topics. Probably doesn't help I haven't slept yet. Though maybe just the other thing I'm describing would be enough. I agree with what you're saying, but putting it into exact details is what we need to do. Otherwise it just won't work. People posting with hate filled crap in normal topics isn't allowed and I've already warned/banned people for it. But for this we do rely on reports. I don't look at CE too often myself as I don't care about most topics, but I do see some fun articles posted every now and then. So yeah, report pls :P You yourself said that it was always worse in CE than CD (and I suppose AD). I noticed some users that post in CE don't cross post in CD even before rule 7. It's like a result of these people being used to image boards. They tend to focus on the news board the most because it's most politicized. I don't think toning down CE would make all the worst aspects move to CD and even if it does don't I make a point it's easier to moderate one thread than like 5 of the same topic? Plus like I mentioned and previously implied there isn't a reason for rules against recruitment of hate based ideologies. It would just have to be explained what that looks like. But you say you want people to just post a thread in CD that is basically the same as the CE thread, but more about the broader topic right? So that would just be moving the problem as the OP would create 2 threads. We'd have to check the CE thread for off-topic posts and clean the CD thread from all the trolling and bait. Seems like double the work for no real gain. Even if not everyone posts it in CD too, it's still more work and more confusion. I already was fine with not allowing certain sources but I prefer black lists over white lists but as far as source goes I haven't seen it overused too much yet since at least some mods are checking the sources. It's the other aspects of rule 7 I see as causing problems. Problem with blacklists is that the list would be massive and never finished. New crappy sites keep popping up. It just wouldn't be maintainable. Also if someone finds a hate site that isn't in the list yet, they'd be free to post it. That's why we check with something like mediabiasfactcheck to see if they aren't far left/right and if their factual reporting is accurate or not. Yeah I suppose there isn't active enough mod activity but a wait of half an hour to two isn't too bad if that was eventually reachable. Well maybe it could use some sort of automatic system that searches for a certain frequency of certain volatile words that would trigger a review? Might be tricky to program but doable. Maybe if one day we'd have like 20 mods, but right now I can't imagine that as it's really hard to find people. We also really can't expect anything development wise. DeNA can't even fix simple bugs anymore. They're too busy developing stuff that nobody wants like the manga store and the app. It's how I read it so I wrote my guess. You're lucky I didn't go for Ardiznadz It's like spelling banana and not being sure how much nananananana to put in banananana.  |
_Nemrod_ said: @Tenma I think CD Rule #7 is actually pretty useful. This is, after all, primarily a site about anime and manga, rather than politics or other highly contentious topics. In my view, the rule help keeps the community from fragmenting over things totally unrelated to our hobby. Really? Please, let me see your "great" anime debate contributions. I am very interested in seeing your contributions to this website. !Rayos! There is a big difference between moderate a forum and impede debate that demands sincerity or intellect. Even CD is a shadow of what it used to be because most of its best users have left. I'm not sure I follow you? Whether I've made any particular contributions at this time has no bearing on the rule. In fact, it has no real bearing on anything regarding the topic. All of that aside, the boards don't have to be the primary place to discuss the things that have caused issues. Is it the optimal solution? No, probably not. But throwing a fit about it shows a poor ability to handle adversity. Let alone what kind of adversity people deal with when in heated debates. Furthermore, you're missing part of the point. If you were to structure your thread in an optimal fashion, it wouldn't be locked for violation. So in essence, put in some effort, or take it somewhere else. It's not such a dire issue. |
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Ardanaz said: I agree with what you're saying, but putting it into exact details is what we need to do. Otherwise it just won't work. People posting with hate filled crap in normal topics isn't allowed and I've already warned/banned people for it. But for this we do rely on reports. I don't look at CE too often myself as I don't care about most topics, but I do see some fun articles posted every now and then. So yeah, report pls :P Well it might fall in trolling if they are clearly trying to cause disruption. It would fall under harassment if they are overly agressive to people. It falls under off topic derailment if they go too far off topic linking it to something else. It falls under racism and sexism when using slurs as actual insults of a group. Those were already rules, right? I found I can't report while on mobile. If you click report it goes to the report page and it doesn't respond to submit button. But you say you want people to just post a thread in CD that is basically the same as the CE thread, but more about the broader topic right? So that would just be moving the problem as the OP would create 2 threads. We'd have to check the CE thread for off-topic posts and clean the CD thread from all the trolling and bait. Seems like double the work for no real gain. Even if not everyone posts it in CD too, it's still more work and more confusion. No just same as people did before rule 7 in CD except some more restrictions like I described. Only CE discussion would be limited more. Basically it would just stop every event becoming a big debate about a broader topic. Okay anyway hate ideology recruitment is just any of those and a hostility and agression against certain groups while spreading propoganda against them. That's not a perfect definition but I have shown it can be definable. Problem with blacklists is that the list would be massive and never finished. New crappy sites keep popping up. It just wouldn't be maintainable. Also if someone finds a hate site that isn't in the list yet, they'd be free to post it. That's why we check with something like mediabiasfactcheck to see if they aren't far left/right and if their factual reporting is accurate or not. Well as long as sites are used but it really should be explained what sites are used to check so users can check themselves to be sure their source is good. Factual reporting matters more. You should only exclude far left and far right depending on topic and article content because they conflate totally unrelated ideologies and outlooks in a one dimensional political axis. Maybe if one day we'd have like 20 mods, but right now I can't imagine that as it's really hard to find people. We also really can't expect anything development wise. DeNA can't even fix simple bugs anymore. They're too busy developing stuff that nobody wants like the manga store and the app. I always thought the manga store was odd choice. Ardanananananananananaz |
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traed said: Well it might fall in trolling if they are clearly trying to cause disruption. It would fall under harassment if they are overly agressive to people. It falls under off topic derailment if they go too far off topic linking it to something else. It falls under racism and sexism when using slurs as actual insults of a group. Those were already rules, right? Yes, those have always been against the rules, but that wasn't too much of the issue. People were doing it more subtly. I found I can't report while on mobile. If you click report it goes to the report page and it doesn't respond to submit button. Ugh... DeNA with the top notch quality assurance. I'd say report the bug, but not like they're going to fix it. No just same as people did before rule 7 in CD except some more restrictions like I described. Only CE discussion would be limited more. Basically it would just stop every event becoming a big debate about a broader topic. Okay anyway hate ideology recruitment is just any of those and a hostility and agression against certain groups while spreading propoganda against them. That's not a perfect definition but I have shown it can be definable. I still just don't see how that would solve anything. Well as long as sites are used but it really should be explained what sites are used to check so users can check themselves to be sure their source is good. Factual reporting matters more. You should only exclude far left and far right depending on topic and article content because they conflate totally unrelated ideologies and outlooks in a one dimensional political axis. Factual reporting does indeed matter more. That is what we look at first. I would like to include a link to mediabiasfactcheck in the rule. Will note that. I always thought the manga store was odd choice. Yeah I don't get it either. If they sold physical manga I'd be down, but paying the same price for a digital volume that you can't even download makes no sense to me. Ardanananananananananaz <3 |
Ardanaz said: Yes, those have always been against the rules, but that wasn't too much of the issue. People were doing it more subtly. Which is why I explained a possible method to caitch the subtle stuff. (it really isn't subtle to me though) I still just don't see how that would solve anything. By directly targeting zealots' hate propoganda with sniper accuracy instead of dropping bombs in mixed crowds causing civilian casualties. Or did I not explain well? Some thing I wrote may have got out of order. Factual reporting does indeed matter more. That is what we look at first. I would like to include a link to mediabiasfactcheck in the rule. Will note that. I sometimes use wikipedia to check info about a site if I don't find it on mediabiasfactcheck to check if it's an awarded source or one with controversies. Though that's probably inconsistent. Edit: proof rule 7 doesn't do what it was intended to and what I describe a more direct approach actually would address this. Nearly off topic but only with the link and so closely related due to the technicality that you can lump women into minorities due to their history of lower social status despite being majority of world population means no rules broken it seems not even the new rules so he's able to try to direct people to an Neo Nazi "alt right" YouTuber's channel to give them view hits and try to spread racist ideology to other MAL users and baiting other users to switch the topic to a debate on racial superiority without exactly doing it himself . https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1745270&show=30#msg56008303 |
traedOct 20, 2018 5:30 AM
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@Hatred The real questions are... Have you really not noticed that the most intelligent, creative, dedicated or passionate MAL users participate in sections such as CD and CE? Why do you participate so much in a section that speaks little of anime as CD? Why Señorita Hatred? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tenma said: I'm not sure I follow you? Whether I've made any particular contributions at this time has no bearing on the rule. In fact, it has no real bearing on anything regarding the topic. All of that aside, the boards don't have to be the primary place to discuss the things that have caused issues. Is it the optimal solution? No, probably not. But throwing a fit about it shows a poor ability to handle adversity. Let alone what kind of adversity people deal with when in heated debates. Furthermore, you're missing part of the point. If you were to structure your thread in an optimal fashion, it wouldn't be locked for violation. So in essence, put in some effort, or take it somewhere else. It's not such a dire issue. @Tenma Do I look like the type of user that makes friends online or wants followers? Yes, there is a lot of relationship between contributing to this forum and the current rules, because those who do not have problems with these rules are usually the same people who contribute little or nothing to the forums. Many of these people have replaced the real world with the virtual world despite lacking objectively serious impediments that prevent them from building healthy social relationships in the real world, preferring to waste their free time on threads like these: People who make great reviews or comments regarding anime, cinema or music; they tend to be people who also have the ability to speak philosophical, religious or political issues and for that reason they tend to accept with pleasure the issues that generate "controversy". These people are usually the ones who try to enjoy in the virtual world those things that are difficult to obtain in the real world, being the global debates of intellectual quality one of those experiences. That's why I'm interested in seeing your contributions to this forum, because that way I can see if your "applause" to the current rules is supported by contributions that enrich this forum. Do controversial issues cause problems? so what? The virtual world is part of the real world, so it is inevitable that our virtual interactions also produce negative emotions or feelings. However, these "virtual evils" are usually much less evils than boredom, rutien and monotony. A person who identifies with fallen angels like me will have a tendency to debate controversial issues with Christians like Aureolus y RedRoseFring or atheists like Trance and TheBrainintheJar. A person who aspires to contribute to a universalist Hispanic civilization based on superbia will necessarily have a tendency to debate controversial issues with people who aspire to a communist globalism -based on envy- like Maluhia or Traed. A multiracial person with Spanish, Italian, French, Chinese and Native American roots like me will tend to discuss controversial issues with racists like Altairius or Nyu. Having predominant Caucasian ancestry does not change that fact! However, is it objectively wrong to have a tendency to debate with people with different moral, theological, philosophical or political views? Of course not! In fact it is the opposite. The controversial debate is inevitable when those who participate in it have ideals and values to defend. Human history is mainly moved by actors like us, not by mere spectators who do not defend anything because they do not believe in anything. The controversial debate takes away the masks and allows us to show us how we really are, hence, sometimes the "virtual world" can feel more real than "the real world". Users like the ones I mentioned could give me a lot of displeasure in a debate, but it's worthwhile to "suffer" those displeasure when the virtual interaction is more sincere than the real interaction... What is the point of debating with bored hypocrites and parrots without personality? Some users pretend to say that this is reduced to the prohibition of political debates but in no way that is true. I invite you to review the following thread -made by Railey2- and then read the post #116 I invested more than 2 hours in that post (#116) using a language (english) that I clearly do not dominate. I invested that time with the intention of making an enriching contribution to that thread - and to the forum - while opening the possibility of having a high quality discussion with another user. However the thread was blocked by nonsense that is unimportant. Ardanaz was able to warn Railey2, edit his post and suppress the "hard language" - but sincere - that he uses. In extreme case this mod could ban Railey2 for a couple of days. However, Ardanaz preferred to block the thread, preventing an interaction that could be much more enriching. Do you think thai is fair that I have invested more than 2 hours of my valuable time in benefit of that thread so that it has been blocked by such trivial things? Railey2 is German (or Austrian?) and Germans have a tendency to say what they really think when they have the chance to do so. You can not ask them for the excessive "diplomacy" that characterizes the French or British. You can not ask them to be what they are not! It's the differences that make this universe interesting, so ¡¡VIVA LA DIFERENCIA!! trolls? For each troll that is intended to neutralize, it is prevented the participation of dozens of users who strive to provide quality to the forums is prevented. Now they are increasingly scarce users who really are interested in providing good material. Normally I would have left this ship (MAL), in the end I rarely see anime and when I do, I see anime with qualitiy, so that I can recommend it openly to my friends (sociable people) while I drink tequila or vodka with them. Well it is not my style to entertain myself with anime that I would not dare reconmendarlo to people with prejudices, except maybe, when giving in to said entertainment implied receiving "favors" from some girlfriend lol However -by the moment- I am being stopped by the participation - each time less - of users who still strive to provide quality to these forums. Flamers ( less evil than boredom) are a problem that can be solved by doubling or tripling the number of mods. It could also benefit the current mods through a payment system (Patreon?) That rewards them for their work, as Katsucats suggested. In the worst case, sections CE and CD can be deleted, so that those who contribute quality to these forums, we are forced to migrate without delay to a webiste who is willing to deal with heated discussions in exchange for quality discussions. Personally, the number of users I am interested in does not exceed 3 tens (including currently inactive users), however, I am convinced that the interaction between these users can make forums of websites with much less trajectory become vibrant under certain conditions, Because quality interaction is not only limited to attracting quality users, but it also attracts quantity users ("average users"). |
_Nemrod_Oct 19, 2018 9:41 AM
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_Nemrod_ said: However, is it objectively wrong to have a tendency to debate with people with different moral, theological, philosophical or political views? Of course not! In fact it is the opposite. Well, part of the reason that I haven't made any particular contributions is because of several factors. I don't submit work that I wouldn't be proud of, firstly. And, I work a job with many hours, so I haven't had the time I would like to really sit down and belt out some things. You'll have to give me the benefit of the doubt. As for the rest, I completely and wholly understand where you're coming from. And, for that matter, I tend to agree with you. Discussing, debating, and having it out across many different opinions, beliefs, and the like is very good for society as a whole. But that's what makes this such a difficult area for MAL and the Forum Moderators. If you would, please look at this from a macro-perspective. Users here on MAL are very diverse across the spectrum. But, it falls to the moderators to provide some kind of standard, and protection, for all users. There are children that use this site, and these forums. Furthermore, there are people that use these forums that are malicious, or willing to coerce others for myriad reasons. Finally, don't forget that the reason this site is here is for the purpose of Anime and Manga related topics. It would be incredibly irresponsible to allow everyone the ability to coerce, cajole, or otherwise damage other users at their discretion. And this is regardless of any difference on any spectrum. And, while you or others may not be effected by such, some of the users are. This is what makes communities difficult. At the moment, Rule 7 is the only fail-safe to find some semblance of control. And, while you may not like the sound of someone else having control, there has to be an authoritative figure in any community. I'd like to look at Rule 7 for the time being as a stop-gap while a more amicable, or middle-ground solution can be found. So, instead of railing against what is, why not help contribute, which you seem to highly value, and come up with a solution that will benefit all the users on MAL. I've been doing what I can to brainstorm a solution, and my suggestion would be a separate forum board. EDIT: Also, by follow, I meant your line of thought in your post, not as in the friend 'follow' lol. |
TenmaOct 19, 2018 6:57 AM
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| I don't mind rule 7 so much, because this section is labelled casual discussion, and I wouldn't say that discussing controversial subjects would fall under the casual category... The fact such discussion are kept open under Current Events is a miracle in itself. Most forums I've seen, outright ban any discussion of religion or politics. And to be honest, nothing ever good comes from "discussing" these topics in the first place. It always come down to a clash of ideals, and people getting stuck in spirals of disagreements, with neither side willing to give an inch. |
deg said: Vulze said: @_Nemrod_ @Tenma MAL is owned by a company, and like any other company, they care about their reputation. This is why I think you are both placing excessive emphasis on what moral values and social benefits the rule upholds. Moreover, the number of users on MAL is substantially higher than those who use the forum, and even more so than those who visit this board. They would never jeopardize their image because of this board. This is why in a previous post I mentioned to someone else that the issue concerns logistics. The nature of the rule is clearly detrimental to the experience of most users, I doubt there's much debate to be had on that. i completely understand that if DeNA is the one making the forum rules but according to this question thread of mine the moderators are the only ones that made this forum rules though, source https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1743743 Riight DeNA makes GUI kinda stuff they probably the reason for the notification bell. The admin of this website doesn't woork for DeNA... they need to stop holding that over our heads like their on the fucking Switch dev team lol putaasss. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| I support most of the rule 7 except immigration, religion and some political ideologies. Anyway, this is a ANIME SITE. I dislike politics and in most cases it gets annoying. About "proper modding", I think that MAL mods do their job well. |
| BANZAI NIPPON. Nippon is the Land of freedom. Nippon is the Land of Peace. Nippon is the Land of Justice and Prosperity. In Nippon, we trust. We love Nippon, we love Anime. Anime love us, Nippon love us. 日本 |
Hatred said: well señor,thankfully i'm not a passionate MAL user because i have better things to do with my life. @Hatred huh? hahahaha Señorita Hatred, that way of responding is not only unnecessarily defensive but also very insubordinate....What kind of attitude is that huh? Well, "apparently" I have no serious reasons to doubt that you have more important things that make with your time, however, I would nor rare that among the users who contribute with quality material in the forums, some have a profesional and social life with better conditions than you, after all It is not possible to offer dedication or passion in the virtual world if they do not come from the real world. Normally the people who make the virtual world their main world, not only lack objectively serious problems that prevent them from a healthy social life in the real world, but these also do not contribute quality material to the virtual world because quiality contributions requires a level of maturity that develops through the pleasant and painful experiences of the real world. Those who mainly tend to shape the world, are not introverts who live in libraries or extroverts who only think of parties, but those who we synthesize both worlds. I suggest you keep this in mind Señorita Hatred. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I imagined this answer. Basically you enjoy a section that has been kept alive mainly by people who contribute threads and quality answers. Bella Irony! The most debated CD threads are usually associated with moral, religious, philosophical, political, cultural and social themes ... that is, the themes that tend to generate controversy. Rule 7 drastically diminishes the participation of quality users and without quality contributions the forums rot. Yahoo Answer is a macro example of what happens with a website when users who offer quality contributions leave or migrate. It does not matter if we talk about concerts or forums; When the key people leave, the party ends. Tenma said: Well, part of the reason that I haven't made any particular contributions is because of several factors. I don't submit work that I wouldn't be proud of, firstly. And, I work a job with many hours, so I haven't had the time I would like to really sit down and belt out some things. You'll have to give me the benefit of the doubt. @Tenma hmmm Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, after all you have not written many post since your registration. Tenma said: As for the rest, I completely and wholly understand where you're coming from. And, for that matter, I tend to agree with you. Discussing, debating, and having it out across many different opinions, beliefs, and the like is very good for society as a whole. But that's what makes this such a difficult area for MAL and the Forum Moderators. If you would, please look at this from a macro-perspective. Users here on MAL are very diverse across the spectrum. But, it falls to the moderators to provide some kind of standard, and protection, for all users. There are children that use this site, and these forums. Furthermore, there are people that use these forums that are malicious, or willing to coerce others for myriad reasons....... This comment is well intentioned but bit honest. If the Mods really did these things for the benefit of the children, they would not only shut down sections like CE or CD, but they would fight to prevent their publication sensual images because they are inappropriate for children. Rule 7 is ineffective against trolls, because for them it is much more effective to attack through private messages or profile comments, because troll action is easily discovered in the forums. Tenma said: I'd like to look at Rule 7 for the time being as a stop-gap while a more amicable, or middle-ground solution can be found. So, instead of railing against what is, why not help contribute, which you seem to highly value, and come up with a solution that will benefit all the users on MAL. I've been doing what I can to brainstorm a solution, and my suggestion would be a separate forum board. The solution for MAL forums is to double or triple the number of mods and these in turn must be chosen by an authority that enjoys maturity. We could also contribute to the mods with donations for patreon. However, I believe that neither of the two options will be carried out. Basically I am still participating in this webiste because the quality users that still remain are skilled enough to defend themselves very well in forums of politics, philosophy or history. It's worth interacting with them or reading their contributions. However, I think that most of them will continue to reduce their activity until they finally leave this website, so for my part I am preparing my luggage because I do not think I will continue to participate in these forums next year. MAL forums helped me improve my agility in this language (English) so I guess I'm ready to contribute and debate in forums and English-speaking channels focused on complex issues History Forum? Debate Politics Forums? Apricity Forum? The Attraction Forums? Maybe I participate in everyone. Tenma said: EDIT: Also, by follow, I meant your line of thought in your post, not as in the friend 'follow' lol.56008094] That sounds better lol -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vulze said: @_Nemrod_ @Tenma MAL is owned by a company, and like any other company, they care about their reputation. This is why I think you are both placing excessive emphasis on what moral values and social benefits the rule upholds. Moreover, the number of users on MAL is substantially higher than those who use the forum, and even more so than those who visit this board. They would never jeopardize their image because of this board. This is why in a previous post I mentioned to someone else that the issue concerns logistics. The nature of the rule is clearly detrimental to the experience of most users, I doubt there's much debate to be had on that. @Vulze Assuming that it has to do with the image you want to transmit DeNa or MAL, then why is it still open sections like CE or CD? Is not it much more efficient to close these sections? In any case the most intelligent that users who really collaborate in the forums with quality material could do, would be to migrate en masse to another website. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -Placeholder- said: UK and France have always been the centres of liberalism in Europe. Especially compared to Germany which has been the bastion of the authoritarian regimes that haven't necessarily supported free speech. And if you look at data, it's the Germans who overwhelmingly support hate speech laws that infringe upon freedom of speech. http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/11/18/2-the-boundaries-of-free-speech-and-a-free-press/ @-Placeholder- Who told you that liberalism does not repress freedom of expression? Perhaps there is no democratic totalitarianism? It would be out of the topic to develop my point to prove your error, however I will tell you that often words like yours usually are usually said by the same people from that nations or anglo-americans and that not help when we talk about credibility ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ɐʇɐʇsodɐ un ʎos |
_Nemrod_Oct 23, 2018 10:50 PM
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| Ya preach girl This is the issue with reddit, Google, and literally tumblers cousins All social media are really fuckin ape shit about controversial subjects Ban words like white male, conservative discussions and make literally Internet a space for only younger than 6 years old mentality |
  ur opinion = shit |
Vulze said: This is partly why the site is going downhill. From what I understand DeNA only owned MAL for a few years now and there was a time that MAL was nonprofit. MAL should get rid of DeNA and become a nonprofit fansite again but that probably won't happen because the people who run the site only care about money.@_Nemrod_ @Tenma MAL is owned by a company, and like any other company, they care about their reputation. Tenma said: MAL should be 18+ in my opinion (or at least 16+). Children shouldn't even be on the internet without their parents supervising them. At very least there should be a disclaimer saying "we're not responsible for the actions of your children after visiting this site" if nothing else. But parents nowadays are spineless and don't do their job as parents and instead give them tablets at the age of 4/5/6, it's ridiculous.There are children that use this site, and these forums. |
Lost_VikingOct 24, 2018 12:45 PM
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-Placeholder- said: Freedom of speech is a principle of Liberalism. I've linked you statistics to back up my point. @-Placeholder- Voltaire once wrote: “To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” France - the primogenite daughter of the Liberal Revolution - and USA - the predilect daughter of the Liberal Revolution - are not the exception to these words. Freedom of speech is one the bases of Liberalism insofar as this freedom is not contrary to the liberal elites - whose head is mainly Jewish and Masonic - and their interests. People are told that, through voting, they elect their rulers, who will be bound by a representative mandate to attend to the requests of their voters. But the truth is that such political representation has never been full; and, in the democracies of our time, it can be said without fear of hyperbole that such representation is almost nil, since the rulers are at the service of Money, which is what gives them the orders. If people were to realize that there is no political representation, a revolution could be unleashed that would annihilate this conspiracy of political power and money; and so that this does not happen, a sublime lie is arbitrated - as Plato says - that makes people believe that their will is sovereign and the rulers go out of their way to attend to it. This creates the myth of the new democratic man, who, unlike the new man of totalitarianism, does not emerge after a period of revolutionary violence, but peacefully, until he reaches what Auguste Comte called the positive state of humanity, which in his judgment (and he was right!) would be achieved through propaganda and education. In this same idea Marcuse abounds, who points out that democracy consolidates domination more efficiently than absolutism, without resorting to explicit terror. What you call freedom speech is only an illusion. I live in a nation that is part of what liberals like you disparagingly call "Third World" - due to an involution caused by the fall of the Spanish monarchy and the triumph of Masonic Liberalism - however I have much more freedom of expression than average of Anglo-Americans and French. To cite an example, rule 7 (MAL forums) or similars are unthinkable -by the moment- in almost all Spanish-speaking forums. |
_Nemrod_Oct 25, 2018 5:42 PM
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