Aldnoah.Zero 2nd Season Episode 8 Discussion

MonadoRudra said:


Mahouka was a success?

Lol the anime community is even worse than I thought.

Shadzy_ said:


Right, and that was an inevitability from a story telling perspective. That doesn't negate the fact that he's made huge progress in achieving his goals through how he's manipulated her, which was my point in response to Hikari_Saisei saying he's oblivious. I know you like to dump on the character any chance you get and that's fine if you're so inclined, but he's hardly done a 'shitty job'. Lemrina's become so emotionally unstable that I don't blame him for this one oversight, especially given the impact Asseylum's waking would've had on him and his thought process.

Edit:



Disagree is a fairly absolute term, but I would say that I don't think its likely. Given what we're seen so far throughout both cours, the writing has been fairly transparent for the most part. Based on how he's been characterised thus far, it would appear that his intentions are fairly one dimensional (save the princess). But equally, it should be noted that we really don't know much about this character, so there is lots of room there if the writers wanted to try and go for something similar to what Kymano has said.

But again, the transparency of the writing thus far leads me to believe that his character likely is exactly who he appears to be, and at this stage I think his role in the story is simply to be a spanner in the works so to speak.

Lahi said:
Was it ever explained how Inaho's eye was saved? Seems like a major asspull he wasn't dead.

deadoptimist said:


And what about your beloved Inaho getting the OP eye and owning another bunch of counts?

Darklight0303 said:
Also way to show your true colors there.

Savethebestforu said:


What are his true colors? Isn't he just pointing out what everyone on this forum already knows?

Darklight0303 said:

I am talking about the unnecessary line "Beloved Inaho"

Viktor_Otaku said:


The LN is actually not too bad TBH, but the writers may have lay on the sibling love a little too thick in the anime.

Inugirlz said:


Yeah the sibling love was ridiculous. I wish I could read the LN somewhere.

But it must have been a success...the damn sister is plastered on Togusa's van door in Durarara x2 Shou.

deadoptimist said:

I can't understand this. As far as wishfullfillment goes isn't it a bit too in your face?.. But, well, what can we do?
Yep, I hope that they'll let Slaine die decently. But I don't hold my breath. It's more likely that they'll milk his last moments for max suffering and, most likely, fujoshi baits (as they do in the OP).

OfficialMikoSM said:

That's what most the otaku want, seeing as most anime nowadays has OPs with the unbeatable feature and very cool with no need of development.
Otaku = Survival for anime

So I don't really care anymore, I just hope they give Slaine a heroic death at least.

JeffreyZin said:
EP21 Preview:-



OH FOR GOD SAKE! WHERE'S THE CLIMAX SCENE?!

Kaioshin_Sama said:

Kirito, Onii-Sama, Inaho

G_Spark233 said:
Oh boy more mecha battles.

MonadoRudra said:
Mahouka was a success?

Lol the anime community is even worse than I thought.

Darklight0303 said:


I'd much rather have a proper ending than an artificial extension for cheap drama.

Darklight0303 said:
Also way to show your true colors there.

Dragon_Slayer_X said:
So let me guess, OP characters are wish fulfillment and Slaine who just suddenly goes from useless to convenient power ups isn't one. Okay..........-_-

Also otakus usually hate OP mcs, they can't self insert their pathetic selves with these type of characters. They feel a kind of complex about OP characters. How about you guys correct your pretentious notion of characters i hate =/= wish fulfillment?

Kaioshin_Sama said:
Aldnoah very much does feel like if you took a standard mecha concept, married it with some popular LN tropes and some popular Urobuchi writing tropes and then just let things take there course as you write episodes month to month to fill 24 episodes worth of content.

Viktor_Otaku said:
Another problem with Aldnoah is that it is unavoidably dragged onto the current anime band wagon, in which that in every single goddamn series, the all other characters that is not hold dear by the MC is doomed to die while the MC continues to live on in his or her pretty little garden of eden free from all worries and troubles despite having unleashed a shitstorm of problems just 10 mins before the epilogue. Aldnoah is no different, I can already see Inaho sipping tea with all of his friends and family while the rest of the world is in obvious tatters.

JeffreyZin said:
EP21 Preview:-



OH FOR GOD SAKE! WHERE'S THE CLIMAX SCENE?!

JeffreyZin said:
EP21 Preview:-



OH FOR GOD SAKE! WHERE'S THE CLIMAX SCENE?!

ANGRY2011 said:
Take your bets: Do they win? Do they lose? Do they lose a named character? Do they lose like 15 more nameless guys while everyone else is just fine? All this and more, on the next episode of ZZzzzzzzzzzz.

Then, Slaine and Lemrina. Given the current state of Slaine's plans, and my attachment to Lemrina, I'm guessing this episode is gonna make me mad. Yayyyyyyyy.

kymano said:

Thats why many fans are having problems with Inaho's character, he's just so generically shounen with no flaws or mistakes.The writers of this shows have no clue what to do with his character other than make him more of a filler.

kymano said:


Oh boy more Inaho being pushed back into filler, atleast they should introduce some new Martian counts instead of re-using the old ones.

ANGRY2011 said:


So, the battle "where you can't win just by throwing troops at it" where command has ordered them to "throw troops at it."

Take your bets: Do they win? Do they lose? Do they lose a named character? Do they lose like 15 more nameless guys while everyone else is just fine? All this and more, on the next episode of ZZzzzzzzzzzz.

Then, Slaine and Lemrina. Given the current state of Slaine's plans, and my attachment to Lemrina, I'm guessing this episode is gonna make me mad. Yayyyyyyyy.

deadoptimist said:


So, you see, you can alternate between boredom and rage. It's not monotonous, so it's fine!

I am not sure I'll like Lemrina's development as well...

Savethebestforu said:


What if we put all 3 of these guys in the same show? Now that would be interesting, and I think it would sell like crazy too.

HidetoshiNakata said:


I fully agree with you, People hate Slaine because Slaine is the typical generic character Shoujo, with a generic plot of shoujo. A cheap drama with two princesses, that has nothing to do with the mecha genre. If Slaine die or live, nothing changes the Martians continued attacking the earth.
Slaine had no loss, Slaine never had anything to lose, just won upgrades and skills, artificially in the second season. A jealous character, childish, and extremely emotional. In short there are no feature of the mecha genre, present and Slaine.





I agree with you, the mecha genre, focuses mecha battles, mecha fights, skills, techniques, strategies, such attributes are not present in Slaine character, even they trying to force some of them artificially in Slaine character. Slaine never worried to study the weaknesses of opponents, never concern with the battlefield, nuna was shown he preucupando with tactics and strategies, his ascension to Emperor post in 4 episodes, is totally artificial and unreal, in the style fairy tale
Yes the generic romance drama, only serves to filling to anime, has nothing to do with the mecha genre.



the argument that Slaine is doing all this mess for the sake of his love, for me, as i told, is just an argument done by the Slaine's fans to paint their hero in an artificial good light and legitimate his immoral behaviour.
Obv he's doing this "for" Asseylum but this is just the outcome of his deviated, unstable and childish mind, the same mind that get him mad only if he listen "that terran guy" from Asseylum.
As i told i don't know why Slaine's fans feel awkward to the fact that they like a "bad"(immoral, childish, manoeuvring, psicologically unstable, killer, emo) character in a story, It could happen.



He couldn't do this because Slaine char is childish, jealous and psycologicaly unstable (what the Slaine lovers try to deny, unsuccessfully imho) not because he want to find an "active and honorable choice to save asseylum"(cit.). This is the way Slaine char is portrait in the show, the honorable blabla stuff is fanwank.

ANGRY2011 said:


Holy shit this is like the second coming of seujair.

deadoptimist and I did nothing to incite your comments. Please God, save us from seujair 2.0.

HidetoshiNakata said:


How about not joining in this war in the first place?
Or how about cooperating in ep 7 instead on acting foolish?
Or how about not siding, rescuing and supporting Saaz?
How about not doing everything to make this war go on and exploit Asseylum?
How about having something like loyalty, honor and integrity and not being a warmonger and a lying manipulative hypocrite?

Let me tell you how it is.
He chose to take part in this war.
He chose to act foolish in ep 7 instead on cooperating.
He chose to side, rescue and support Saaz.
He chose to make this war continue and he chose to exploit Asseylum for that.
He chose to not be loyal, to not have honor and to not have integrity and he chose to be a warmonger and a lying manipulative hypocrite.



Slaine had always the options, but because this moron either didn't want to think further or just didn't care, things escalated. He willingly dirtied his hands and he willingly let it go this far. His "tragedy" is only because of himself. He is responsible for his misery.

So his "tagedy" is not tragic, It's just a farce and a facepalmfest.

And if i'm a hater for pointing a the nonsense he does instead to judge his actions through pink fanboyglases, than i can live with that.

deadoptimist said:


Oh, hi, seujair, I guess. And I thought that you've disappeared somewhere.

ANGRY2011 said:


It's eerie, right? He was all quiet and gone... and now he's back with a new name, and slightly better English.

To be fair, I don't know if it really is him, but the resemblance is... uncanny.

Darklight0303 said:
So basically you mean what's said in the first 20 secs of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ8-rLJ-59Y

deadoptimist said:


Hm, I had the impression that it was. At least it was big in its season and I remember many people liking it. Also there is a game.



And what is the "proper" ending? Inaho curbstomping everyone singlehandedly in the ground?
No, seroously, you said that the whole second season is unnecessary, does it also involve the Inaho's plotline?


Do you see any "disrespect" to Inaho's as a personal insult? (Disrespect to a fictional character from an anime, lmao...)

Cause what true colors? What am I showing here? That I dislike the rudeness of a certain party on this forum? That I think that Inaho's eye seems out of place in their setting? That I prefer Slaine's plotline over Inaho's? That I am slightly ironic or know the word "beloved"?
All of these things are true and none of them are probematic in the slightest.



That's why I don't understand why people like OP characters so much. Don't they feel inadequate in comparision? But judging from the latest trends no, they don't. OPs are very popular, people don't have truoble empathizing with characters, who don't need empathy, and people like to argue that any flawed character is an idiot. But if he wasn't flawed, he would be an OP. All of this we can see in this subforum and in subforums around.

If you mean specifically Japanese otaku or want to differentiate otakus from normal fans, I admit that I am not qualified to argue about it, but the said Mahouka and NGNL seem to be popular in Japan as well. Many MCs from LNs aeem OP too.

And Inaho doesn't ofer anything besides it, so I can't think of another reason to like his plotline.

Slaine is a character for emotional attachment and he certainly offers some degree of wish fullfillment as well, but he is destined for downfall, has a lot of problems and an actual progression, so, I'd say, that in his case it doesn't go over the usual perks of a MC in a popular adolescent fiction.



I think it is exactly like that. Personally I am not against it (unlike you, I suppose). But the thing is it just doesn't work here. Urobuchi's style of writing is fit only for decent writers and demands a good conflict at least at first, LNs often suggest intorspection, interaction and pandering, mecha demands balance of powers and competition. As a result they have to balance too many things for a 24 ep. series, try to balance an OP character with an opponent, throw motivations and relationships all around.

I guess, you're right, that they write on the fly.

deadoptimist said:


Maybe he was banned? The English is still bad and there're words in a roman language, and seujair sometimes was coherent, so, I guess, it's him. The extreme hate towards Slaine is in place too.


The prince is a good character.

HidetoshiNakata said:
From the wise words of Break from Pandora Hearts: "I hate reasons that start out like 'I did it all for someone else!'" This is Slaine's reason d'etre, that he's doing it all for Asseylum. However, he fought under the pretext of her name and blessing, and gained power through trickery. Things he knows she'd abhor. He does this with a end goal in mind. and keeps moving forward by vying for the throne by engaging himself to Asseylum through name only at the time, due to the real Asseylum being comatose. He even gave up on her ever waking up. In the end, he's not doing all these things for anyone but himself, and is using Asseylum as an excuse. No one should buy into what he says that "he has no dreams".

Even now, he says his main priority is making Asseylum happy. He hopes to keep her in the dark for as long as possible in an enclosed space away from the rest of the world. That's no better than treating her like a child. In the end, he's doing what makes him happy (or at least the best he can manage) with trying to keep her as a "bird in a cage" out of fear of being rejected.

By the way, if no one has read Pandora Hearts, I'd recommend it. It's a very good manga

Darklight0303 said:
On that we agree. Though being the architect of his own destruction DOES apply to Slaine as well

deadoptimist said:


*sigh* You do understand that I wasn't talking about any of this, so there was no reason to quote me, right?
I thought about reading PH. Is it a manga original?

Other than that I don't know why I should care about the moral side of the story. And I find Asseylum stupid, boring and irritating (both her personality and role in the story), so I think it would've been better if she had died in any of the previous attempts or if she had been killed by Slaine or Lemrina. It would've been logical and much more interesting. Her thoughts and feelings do not interest me in the slightest (I'd prefer her broken), so her opinions are not a factor in judging Slaine or anyone.
Lemrina is much, much better.

Also I watch this for entertainment and not for enlightenment, so I judge characters by how interesting they are (i.e. personality, development, design, interactions with other characters), not by their moral qualities. If anything I prefer complex characters that are able to make mistakes.


Yeah, but he also is the better character in A.Z, partially because of this.
And technically he had chances of sucess, and still has some.

HidetoshiNakata said:



From the wise words of Break from Pandora Hearts: "I hate reasons that start out like 'I did it all for someone else!'" This is Slaine's reason d'etre, that he's doing it all for Asseylum. However, he fought under the pretext of her name and blessing, and gained power through trickery. Things he knows she'd abhor. He does this with a end goal in mind. and keeps moving forward by vying for the throne by engaging himself to Asseylum through name only at the time, due to the real Asseylum being comatose. He even gave up on her ever waking up. In the end, he's not doing all these things for anyone but himself, and is using Asseylum as an excuse. No one should buy into what he says that "he has no dreams".

Even now, he says his main priority is making Asseylum happy. He hopes to keep her in the dark for as long as possible in an enclosed space away from the rest of the world. That's no better than treating her like a child. In the end, he's doing what makes him happy (or at least the best he can manage) with trying to keep her as a "bird in a cage" out of fear of being rejected.

By the way, if no one has read Pandora Hearts, I'd recommend it. It's a very good manga

ANGRY2011 said:


Holy shit this is like the second coming of seujair.

seujair 2.0.

kymano said:

So basically its like Slaine doing things Crutheo would do, Crutheo did shelter Asseylum from the affairs of Vers except that Crutheo and all the other Count were very openly prejudice towards Slaine and hated earthling That only lead Asseylum to think that "hate" is the cause of war.Which is not so, both Slaine and Inaho know that "hate" is not the only factor of war, resources, beliefs and the way things are handled leads to war.
Martians beliefs athat they should not hold negotiations with Terrans would make that little so-called peace treaty a flaw since the Martians already invaded and claimed some of Earth resources.They would intially bring about another problem over resources and another war would start again.
So yes, Slaine is right for keeping Asseylum away from these issues since Asseylum doesnt know how things get handled in the midst of her own Counts.

HidetoshiNakata said:
this is another "what if" trick you try to do since this very morning?

We knows the personalities of the chars, well...at least who see the show without a strong fanbase for one or another char.
we can judge only with what is showed to us by the authors, not parallel universe ( Fyi i like better the one where Godzilla splash with his foot Asseylum shopping in shibuya during golden week vacation and then Utraman arrives with the help of Amuro and Char teaming up in with the ultimate Gund-zaku gattai-galore-shin-ZZxZZ, obv with a roaring Lion on the chest, and then they defeat the monster with their powerfull third-impact-attacku-no.1) or fanwank about what could happen: Fanfiction section about A/Z is another, i belive.

Knight-Artorias said:
This forum got lively all of a sudden :o

deadoptimist said:



It seems that seujair is back!

deadoptimist said:


Erm, you kinda missed the point. I don't know why you keep writing to me about this. I don't really care about Slaine x Asseylum. I don't care about his end success as well, nor do I need to to properly enjoy his plotline, though I'd prefer to see him sucessful (the ride is good, so it's ok). And the writing is so shitty that speculations are the best part of the show. That's why I like to discuss the possible scenarios.
Slaine is not ideal, he made mistakes, so what? That is a plus for a character in my books.

I think I'll refrain from answering you until you address at least one point from my comment instead of writing random things.


It seems that seujair is back!

Knight-Artorias said:


Well......on the bright side it got lively again....right?....right?!

HidetoshiNakata said:
slaine he's not the underdog at all since the first episode, the way he act and his choices (he had a lot options too btw) reflect only his personality, that it is the opposite of the Inaoh one ( Opposite dualism: most used anime trope since 1979, mostly in mecha or scifi shows), he's childish, unstable, emo, insecure, jealous, victimist, misleading and with no moral at all.

this is the aldnoah.zero show without fanwank and fanboy stuff.

deadoptimist said:


Yeah, I guess... It must be the silver lining... There must be one...



Even if it was so, so what?

HidetoshiNakata said:
^^I don't think Slaine hates anyone. He regrets that Inaho exists, Terrans don't interest him, Martians treated him badly, yet he stays fairly passive toward them. He is so indifferent toward any of them that he doesn't mind killing them, as long as he fulfills his needs.

seujair??? said:
I fully agree with you, People hate Slaine because Slaine is the typical generic character Shoujo, with a generic plot of shoujo. A cheap drama with two princesses, that has nothing to do with the mecha genre. If Slaine die or live, nothing changes the Martians continued attacking the earth.
Slaine had no loss, Slaine never had anything to lose, just won upgrades and skills, artificially in the second season. A jealous character, childish, and extremely emotional. In short there are no feature of the mecha genre, present and Slaine.

deadoptimist said:
(maybe you aren't seujair after all).

deadoptimist said:


It scares me that I mostly agree with you (maybe you aren't seujair after all). Yeah, that seems an adequate assessment, though there is an inconsistency in the writing with the secondary plotline about the low-class martians' suffering - Slaine could supposedly care for them. There're three moments about this: a martian dies for Slaine in the first cour, Saazbaum's agenda, Harklight. But it is developped so badly, that we can't honestly say whether he or anybody truly cares or not.
Also there is a problem with Slaine recently calling terrans scum.

But what about all this?

Savethebestforu said:
Oh god have we missed you and your terrible quote editing. This thread is only a measly 23 pages without your page-long clusterfuck comments. It's so good to see that you are alive and well. But most importantly, the raging passion for Slaine deep in the caverns of your heart still lives on.

Savethebestforu said:
That's not his own words. If you copy+paste it into google, you can see it was posted by someone on the animesuki forums, something seujair regularly mentioned during his time here. I'm sure most of his other comments other than the one I quoted were pasted from those forums as well. Edit: Actually, I just checked his other somewhat coherent comments. All of them were copied+pasted from different users in animesuki.

HidetoshiNakata said:


Slaine is pretty much clown of the series.

Like clown Slaine has a drastic change of priorities as well as a cause he himself doesn't believe in.

Slaine's goal was expose and bring retribution to the ones who tried to kill Asseylum. That turned to join the traitors and kill Inaho. Though he did kill Sazzbaum. Slain took Sazzbaum's legacy. It Seemed less to bring prosperity to the people of Vers and tear down the nobility but more he wants Asseylum for himself.

kymano said:
Slaine and Asseylum were the most laughable clowns of the first series in my opinion, while Slaine was busy searching for the princess , Asseylum was too busy running into bullets.
How was Slaine going expose that Saazbaum is the traitor?Are Knights going to bother listen to him?Ofcourse he had to join Saazbaum, in order to save Asseylum's life(dont even bother mentioning ep 12) since Slaine has no clue about the UFE other than what Inaho told him in ep 7(again dont bother)Are you really going hold his lack of information against him?
Slaine already has Asseylum for himself, Asseylum cannot enact any laws nor make any decisions without Slaine's approval.Even if Asseylum disagrees with Slaine, the Counts will based their favour in Slaine's views.Slaine now can use Asseylum for his bidding but he done fucked up lying to Lemrina about Asseylum's coma and has to deal with Lemrina for now(tell that girl,her time's up).