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| Aoi was still alive, and leaving aside that it never showed Sakura throwing him,it was a miracle that he even reached the house before dying. And that line was directed at herself, a mistake by the studio. |
| I rewatched it, Sakura didn't throw him in. But she didn't exactly try to stop him from falling down either. And that line's directed at herself? She's looking at him while she's saying it so that's confusing. If it is meant for herself then I guess she holds no ill will against Kirya. And I just remembered where Aoi was alive, I seem to be suffering from amnesia (much like her now lol) |
DaBaseDec 24, 2013 12:18 PM
DaBase333 said: And that line's directed at herself? She's looking at him while she's saying it so that's confusing. If it is meant for herself then I guess she holds no ill will against Kirya. Read this again: ssjokg said: And that line was directed at herself, a mistake by the studio. |
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DaBase333 said: She is looking at him in the LN as well.But her words do not contain malice and the narration makes it easier to understand.I dont know if the studio didnt notice the VA's performance or thought that they wont confuse those that didnt read the novel.Well in the novel Sakura wasnt even free from her chains but anyway.I rewatched it, Sakura didn't throw him in. But she didn't exactly try to stop him from falling down either. And that line's directed at herself? She's looking at him while she's saying it so that's confusing. If it is meant for herself then I guess she holds no ill will against Kirya. And I just remembered where Aoi was alive, I seem to be suffering from amnesia (much like her now lol) And Kariya died the moment he grabbed her hand.There isnt something to stop. |
| Amazing series 9/10 I would probably give it a 10 if I understood everything but thats my mistake for not watching fate/night first. |
| ''We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think?'' - Uchiha Itachi |
SaSa-Zoldyck said: Amazing series 9/10 I would probably give it a 10 if I understood everything but thats my mistake for not watching fate/night first. There's no reason to watch the existing FSN anime. Its not-canon and innacurate and we are getting a remake this summer. |
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| That was a beautiful ending...9/10 Loved it <3 |
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| Wow, I never imagined that kind of ending, Fuyuki suffering all of that damage was heart wrenching when considering everything Kiritsugu went through to prevent anything like that from ever happening. I haven't watched F/SN, but from what I know about it I can take an educated guess as to who that boy is. I'm glad Rin was able to get away from Kirei, earlier in the series I was afraid he'd go ahead and raise her later on. I couldn't help but shiver a bit when he gave Rin the very same dagger that define his betrayal of Tokiomi. Bastard (although still a very interesting bastard). Kariya's end was a real tragic one, ironically nothing he set out to do occurred and he died miserably and trapped in his own madness. Seeing Waver again gave for one last nice broment. Overall a splendid series. Very magnificent job and I look forward to the Fate Stay Night remake this year. I'm tempted to jump into the sequel right now but I'll wait for ufotable. Not to mention people die when they are killed, and I don't think I can handle that kind of logic right now. Season 1: 9/10 Season 2: 10/10 |
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Ratohnhaketon said: Wow, I never imagined that kind of ending, Fuyuki suffering all of that damage was heart wrenching when considering everything Kiritsugu went through to prevent anything like that from ever happening. I haven't watched F/SN, but from what I know about it I can take an educated guess as to who that boy is. I'm glad Rin was able to get away from Kirei, earlier in the series I was afraid he'd go ahead and raise her later on. I couldn't help but shiver a bit when he gave Rin the very same dagger that define his betrayal of Tokiomi. Bastard (although still a very interesting bastard). Kariya's end was a real tragic one, ironically nothing he set out to do occurred and he died miserably and trapped in his own madness. Seeing Waver again gave for one last nice broment. Overall a splendid series. Very magnificent job and I look forward to the Fate Stay Night remake this year. I'm tempted to jump into the sequel right now but I'll wait for ufotable. Not to mention people die when they are killed, and I don't think I can handle that kind of logic right now. Season 1: 9/10 Season 2: 10/10 Kirei is her guardian and he will teach her stuff.She will just live on her own(after her mother dies as well) It's very ironic if you think that even if Kariya was the winner,things wouldnt be better.In fact the destruction would be bigger. Give the Visual novel a chance.As for that quote,FSN spoiler |
Ratohnhaketon said: Not to mention people die when they are killed, and I don't think I can handle that kind of logic right now. That's not a logic. Thats a japanese folk saying "would not die even if they killed him". Its a common basis of most of japanese horror stories - a vengeful spirit coming back to fulfill unfulfilled wishes or revenge. "People Die when they are killed" is the negation of that. It implies that ideals are not enough to keep one alive(hell Fate/Zero is the metaphorical manifestation of that saying - every 4th war master suffers same fates at death, no matter what he fights for) as well as that Shirou And yeah, you are just better off getting the VN, as no matter how good the adaptation will be, its doubtful any adaptation can cover ~50-70 hours of material without losing subtle details. ssjokg said: Ratohnhaketon said: Wow, I never imagined that kind of ending, Fuyuki suffering all of that damage was heart wrenching when considering everything Kiritsugu went through to prevent anything like that from ever happening. I haven't watched F/SN, but from what I know about it I can take an educated guess as to who that boy is. I'm glad Rin was able to get away from Kirei, earlier in the series I was afraid he'd go ahead and raise her later on. I couldn't help but shiver a bit when he gave Rin the very same dagger that define his betrayal of Tokiomi. Bastard (although still a very interesting bastard). Kariya's end was a real tragic one, ironically nothing he set out to do occurred and he died miserably and trapped in his own madness. Seeing Waver again gave for one last nice broment. Overall a splendid series. Very magnificent job and I look forward to the Fate Stay Night remake this year. I'm tempted to jump into the sequel right now but I'll wait for ufotable. Not to mention people die when they are killed, and I don't think I can handle that kind of logic right now. Season 1: 9/10 Season 2: 10/10 Kirei is her guardian and he will teach her stuff.She will just live on her own(after her mother dies as well) It's very ironic if you think that even if Kariya was the winner,things wouldnt be better.In fact the destruction would be bigger. Give the Visual novel a chance.As for that quote,FSN spoiler Not just that: |
AhenshihaelMar 8, 2014 5:11 AM
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Fai said: Pretty sure that's the scene that's why I said "To no go into further spoilers"Ratohnhaketon said: Not to mention people die when they are killed, and I don't think I can handle that kind of logic right now. That's not a logic. Thats a japanese folk saying "would not die even if they killed him". Its a common basis of most of japanese horror stories - a vengeful spirit coming back to fulfill unfulfilled wishes or revenge. "People Die when they are killed" is the negation of that. It implies that ideals are not enough to keep one alive(hell Fate/Zero is the metaphorical manifestation of that saying - every 4th war master suffers same fates at death, no matter what he fights for) as well as that Shirou And yeah, you are just better off getting the VN, as no matter how good the adaptation will be, its doubtful any adaptation can cover ~50-70 hours of material without losing subtle details. ssjokg said: Ratohnhaketon said: Wow, I never imagined that kind of ending, Fuyuki suffering all of that damage was heart wrenching when considering everything Kiritsugu went through to prevent anything like that from ever happening. I haven't watched F/SN, but from what I know about it I can take an educated guess as to who that boy is. I'm glad Rin was able to get away from Kirei, earlier in the series I was afraid he'd go ahead and raise her later on. I couldn't help but shiver a bit when he gave Rin the very same dagger that define his betrayal of Tokiomi. Bastard (although still a very interesting bastard). Kariya's end was a real tragic one, ironically nothing he set out to do occurred and he died miserably and trapped in his own madness. Seeing Waver again gave for one last nice broment. Overall a splendid series. Very magnificent job and I look forward to the Fate Stay Night remake this year. I'm tempted to jump into the sequel right now but I'll wait for ufotable. Not to mention people die when they are killed, and I don't think I can handle that kind of logic right now. Season 1: 9/10 Season 2: 10/10 Kirei is her guardian and he will teach her stuff.She will just live on her own(after her mother dies as well) It's very ironic if you think that even if Kariya was the winner,things wouldnt be better.In fact the destruction would be bigger. Give the Visual novel a chance.As for that quote,FSN spoiler Not just that: |
| Fairly disappointed. It's overrated, IMO, but it was still one hell of a ride. F/Z = 6/10 F/Z 2nd Season = 8/10 I do rate off pure enjoyment. |
| Looking for a character or a certain Anime/Manga? Looking for recommendations? Rie Kugimiya Fanclub |
| Such a promising start to the show, and it ends up to be a total disappointment. For an anime with this much praise I was expecting a plot that actually made sense and an array of likable characters. Instead, there was no real distinction between the antagonists and protagonists - the only entertaining characters were rider, his master Waver, and Emiya Kiritsugu. Kirei did a weak job of being a true antagonist, and I felt no resentment towards him and his action. Fate/Zero left me lacking any sympathy towards the array of boring characters. As for the plot, it was flawed in many ways from the beginning. The show failed to provide a valid explanation on why Kiritsugu's wish was rejected by the holy grail. Also, why was there no background information on what happened in the previous 3 holy grail wars? It would've been helpful if they provided specific information on how the three noble families were able to summon the holy grail in the first place. The fact that Fate/Zero showcased the fourth holy grail war instead of starting from the very beginning was probably its biggest flaw. With that being said, the ending was enjoyable, and the animation was great until the end (well... except for the huge difference in art style between berserker and all of the other servants). IMO, season one was better than season two, and although Fate/Zero has some of the finest animation I have ever seen, it possesses few distinguishable factors from other supernatural-action anime. Overall for both seasons: 7/10 |
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micoda9 said: For an anime with this much praise I was expecting a plot that actually made sense and an array of likable characters. Instead, there was no real distinction between the antagonists and protagonists - the only entertaining characters were rider, his master Waver, and Emiya Kiritsugu. Kirei did a weak job of being a true antagonist, and I felt no resentment towards him and his action. Fate/Zero left me lacking any sympathy towards the array of boring characters. Kirei is not supposed to be a true "villain" due to the fact of him being void of capability for human emotion. He is more like a computer trying to solve an unsolvable problem and searching for most efficient ways to reach it. He is an antagonist. The villain is Zouken since he so far was the only one with truly malicious intent. The show failed to provide a valid explanation on why Kiritsugu's wish was rejected by the holy grail. Its Kerry who rejected the HOly Grail realizing its current nature and that making a wish would end the world. Why Grail is the way it is is explained in FSN visual novel. Also, why was there no background information on what happened in the previous 3 holy grail wars? Three is. In FSN. It would've been helpful if they provided specific information on how the three noble families were able to summon the holy grail in the first place. Magic. The fact that Fate/Zero showcased the fourth holy grail war instead of starting from the very beginning was probably its biggest flaw. THe first war was pretty much three people summoning the grail and then murdering each other for it upon realizing there's only one wish. Forgetfulness said: There isn't much information about the third one that I know of, except for the fact that Einzbern summoned Angra Mainyu then Incorrect. Fate/Hollow Ataraxia events are |
AhenshihaelMar 13, 2014 1:05 AM
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micoda9 said: Such a promising start to the show, and it ends up to be a total disappointment. For an anime with this much praise I was expecting a plot that actually made sense and an array of likable characters. Instead, there was no real distinction between the antagonists and protagonists - the only entertaining characters were rider, his master Waver, and Emiya Kiritsugu. Kirei did a weak job of being a true antagonist, and I felt no resentment towards him and his action. Fate/Zero left me lacking any sympathy towards the array of boring characters. As for the plot, it was flawed in many ways from the beginning. The show failed to provide a valid explanation on why Kiritsugu's wish was rejected by the holy grail. Also, why was there no background information on what happened in the previous 3 holy grail wars? It would've been helpful if they provided specific information on how the three noble families were able to summon the holy grail in the first place. The fact that Fate/Zero showcased the fourth holy grail war instead of starting from the very beginning was probably its biggest flaw. With that being said, the ending was enjoyable, and the animation was great until the end (well... except for the huge difference in art style between berserker and all of the other servants). IMO, season one was better than season two, and although Fate/Zero has some of the finest animation I have ever seen, it possesses few distinguishable factors from other supernatural-action anime. Overall for both seasons: 7/10 The plot did make sense.You are so vague in that statement that it could be anything that "didnt make sense".But I think you refer to it later. Depends on wht you like.MANY find Caster,Ryunosuke,Gilgamesh,Kariya,Kirei,Kayneth,Iri,Saber(even Tokiomi) interesting.I dont see what Waver,Rider and Kiritsugu have that is 100% better than the others. Why would you need to feel resentment towards him and his action?That people were getting angry towards him for killing Iri or Tokiomi is beyond me in the first place.Antagonist=/=Villain.An antagonist doesnt have to be pure evil.Yes Kirei gets pleasure from the pain of others but he even hates himself for that. Now to what I believe that you mean when you say that "the plot didnt make sense". The show clearly stated that the grail cant grant a wish if the user doesnt know of a way for that wish to be granted.Pretty valid.There is no background info because the only one that actually cares out of the two that possible know about the previous wars is Zouken and the only time he even talked about the 3rd in the novel, was cut from the anime.But it isnt necessary just like providing info on how the rituals started. The 1st and 2nd Heaven's Feel(the actual name of the ritual) have nothing to do with Fate/Stay Night.There is no reason for anything other than the story that lead to the events of Fate/Stay Night(everything about Shirou,Sakura,Rin,Ilya,Archer,Saber,Gilgamesh and Kirei)to be Fate/Zero. There is a reason for Berserker to be in CG, and he was awesome. |
Forgetfulness said: ^ By the way, I was thinking about how information about the broken Grail would/could have been presented. Are the only two people who know its true nature in Fate/Zero the Einzbern leader and Zouken? If so, it would be pretty reasonable for no one to say anything since the Einzbern leader doesn't give a shit and Zouken barely talks in Fate/Zero While in Fate/stay night, both Gilgamesh and Kirei go through the great fire and they are the main sources of information as to what actually happens. Zouken also talks more (btw, did Illya know about the nature of the Grail? I think she did but not sure And if so, how does she know that? ._.) Illya did not. I don't think anyone knew for sure that Grail is tainted. Zero events made Zouken realize that, if I remember correctly. Zouken could just talk to himself. While being EVIL(hell Urobuchi did it in Madoka and Gargantia too). |
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Fai said: Zouken had suspicions because of the events of the 3rd war and was sure after he saw what kind of Spirit Caster was:Forgetfulness said: ^ By the way, I was thinking about how information about the broken Grail would/could have been presented. Are the only two people who know its true nature in Fate/Zero the Einzbern leader and Zouken? If so, it would be pretty reasonable for no one to say anything since the Einzbern leader doesn't give a shit and Zouken barely talks in Fate/Zero While in Fate/stay night, both Gilgamesh and Kirei go through the great fire and they are the main sources of information as to what actually happens. Zouken also talks more (btw, did Illya know about the nature of the Grail? I think she did but not sure And if so, how does she know that? ._.) Illya did not. I don't think anyone knew for sure that Grail is tainted. Zero events made Zouken realize that, if I remember correctly. Zouken could just talk to himself. While being EVIL(hell Urobuchi did it in Madoka and Gargantia too). “… Zōken, can you really watch Kariya, who is fighting for the Matō house, have his chances of victory destroyed little by little?” “Chances of victory? Kariya? Hmph, such things never existed. If that piece of trash can obtain the Holy Grail, then the past three bouts of slaughter would all seem like a comedy show.” “I don’t quite understand. Isn’t the Matō house also one of the Three Noble Families of the Beginning, one that craves the Holy Grail?” Hearing Kirei’s question, Zōken gave a cold snort. “I think the Tōsaka son and those of the Einsbern house are all idiots. If they remember the details from the last battle of the previous war, then they should understand that there is something odd with this fourth Heaven’s Feel, and be alert towards it. "I saw through the battle for this round from the start. Truth be told, just by looking at that despicable Caster at the start of the War, we should have been able to tell that the summoning didn’t call forth a Heroic Spirit, but an evil spirit far removed from heroes. Without a doubt, something has begun to err within the Heaven’s Feel system. We need to solve this problem first.” This odd man, who had overcome ordinary humanity, had likely been present in every single Heaven’s Feel. This man Matō Zōken had grasped something that even the previous Supervisor, Kotomine Risei, had not known about." |
MaxVdub said: the destruction caused by the black mud spilling out was bigger than i imagined it based on f/sn. i expected it to be no more than a couple neighborhoods at most but this looked like a sizable chunk of the city. geez! fsn spoilers exactly why^ |
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| Man, I barely know what to think of this episode and this series. I'm left with such confused and troubled emotions... At least there's a faint glimmer of hope... Ok, to the Fate/ Stay Night watchers I really want to know One thing most of all: Does Fate/ Stay Night have a happy ending? If not, is it sad, bitter sweet? How would you characterize it?? |
DaydreamHeroApr 1, 2014 11:18 PM
| Love and Peace!!! |
Thund3r1 said: It has 3 endings for 3 different scenarios.All of them are bittersweet.A lot happier than FZ's ending if that's what you want to hear.Man, I barely know what to think of this episode and this series. I'm left with such confused and troubled emotions... At least there's a faint glimmer of hope... Ok, to the Fate/ Stay Night watchers I really want to know One thing most of all: Does Fate/ Stay Night have a happy ending? If not, is it sad, bitter sweet? How would you characterize it?? Better wait for ufotable's remake.Dont try to watch the already existing FSN or the movie. |
Thund3r1 said: Ok, to the Fate/ Stay Night watchers I really want to know One thing most of all: Does Fate/ Stay Night have a happy ending? If not, is it sad, bitter sweet? How would you characterize it?? Its ending(s). Three (each with multiple different versions with slight variations) And its certainly the case of "earn your happy ending" - how happy depends on perception, but each ending has lives lost and bittersweet feeling present. Each ending is happy for certain characters and unhappy for some other characters. There's no ending where every character survives. There's no ending where each character is happy. However each ending has those at fault get what is coming for them, alongside all the collateral. |
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ssjokg said: Thund3r1 said: It has 3 endings for 3 different scenarios.All of them are bittersweet.A lot happier than FZ's ending if that's what you want to hear.Man, I barely know what to think of this episode and this series. I'm left with such confused and troubled emotions... At least there's a faint glimmer of hope... Ok, to the Fate/ Stay Night watchers I really want to know One thing most of all: Does Fate/ Stay Night have a happy ending? If not, is it sad, bitter sweet? How would you characterize it?? Better wait for ufotable's remake.Dont try to watch the already existing FSN or the movie. OK sounds promising. yeah, I'm not interested in watching more sadness on the level of FZ. Does the TV Show have 3 endings or are you talking about the Visual Novel? I think I'll still watch the original show and make my own judgement about it. I rather watch an anime thats already finished than one thats ongoing. Plus I heard that the new show comes from an angle thats different from the TV show. |
| Love and Peace!!! |
Thund3r1 said: I mean the Visual Novel.ssjokg said: Thund3r1 said: It has 3 endings for 3 different scenarios.All of them are bittersweet.A lot happier than FZ's ending if that's what you want to hear.Man, I barely know what to think of this episode and this series. I'm left with such confused and troubled emotions... At least there's a faint glimmer of hope... Ok, to the Fate/ Stay Night watchers I really want to know One thing most of all: Does Fate/ Stay Night have a happy ending? If not, is it sad, bitter sweet? How would you characterize it?? Better wait for ufotable's remake.Dont try to watch the already existing FSN or the movie. OK sounds promising. yeah, I'm not interested in watching more sadness on the level of FZ. Does the TV Show have 3 endings or are you talking about the Visual Novel? I think I'll still watch the original show and make my own judgement about it. I rather watch an anime thats already finished than one thats ongoing. Plus I heard that the new show comes from an angle thats different from the TV show. No there is no info on what the content will be.As a big fan of the series I suggest to wait for the remake. Same quality animation as FZ,same sound quality as FZ,directing etc.Even if it is a new scenario(not in the VN) it will be better than the tv series.The characters dont make sense most of the time,the fights are slow as boring and some have random bullshit.The role Sakura was given is SHIT etc etc.And the movie is even worse. |
| Oh jesus this show was so bad. |
ex_necross said: So is your post and taste.Oh jesus this show was so bad. |
| Just finished this anime today. Gave it 10/10. Tnx for explaining some things i didn't understand. Hopefully the FSN remake (or whatever it is) comes soon. 1st post :) |
| I'm too old for this sh**t. |
| Great Series so glad Waver didn't die, when i first watched this series i hated that punks guts but he really grew on me |
| Yo |
| Well, this turned out to be pretty nice and well worth watching. The insane amount of exposition dragged down the first season a lot, but it didn't taint the second season, so that's good. Given the canon constraints by Nasu "quality" I think they made the best out of it, though some of the characters were pretty meh and I couldn't get much emotional investment in their struggles. 8/10. |
Mogami-kun said: I dont think you have experienced a good adaptation of Nasu's writing outside FZ.Well, this turned out to be pretty nice and well worth watching. The insane amount of exposition dragged down the first season a lot, but it didn't taint the second season, so that's good. Given the canon constraints by Nasu "quality" I think they made the best out of it, though some of the characters were pretty meh and I couldn't get much emotional investment in their struggles. 8/10. |
| 1. How the hell did kirei survive? 2. So no1 really won in this story. No1 got their wish granted by the grail 8/10 |
| 俺の命を百合に。 Currently translating Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o - Atelier no Koibito-tachi -- when bored. Above visual novel is 22.22% translated with progress uploaded to youtube; if you're into yuri VNs, check out my channel.  |
billybob300c said: 1. How the hell did kirei survive? 2. So no1 really won in this story. No1 got their wish granted by the grail 8/10 Because the grail/Anga Mainyu brought him back along with Gil Kirei and Gil won in a way. |
TG82 said: Rin's mother somehow surviving An insane and delusional person is not exactly good for an assassin. Also The grail's random black ooze coming from nowhere. Already explained. "Grail" is a two-part object. Grailmud is part of its corruption and it burns away all earthly things, physical and spiritual, by overwhelming their existence. Reasons for its corrupton are explored and explained in other nasuverse works(that still do nto have anime adaptation) since Fate/Zero IS a prequel. Long story short: Its only HINTED(Via what Zouken says about it) at in Fate/Zero because Fate/Zero shows how the situation ten years latter in FSN(visual novel and most likely the upcoming adaptation latter this year) came to be. Zero in the title indicates the beginning. The "zero point" of it all, the ground zero of the events that split off into Fate/Zero is the "zero point" that foretells the beginning and the setting that the next generation of children grew up affected by. Kirei's surviving "because the grail wanted him to live" BS A wish-granting object of evil revives someone who "won" the wish. How is that BS? Gilgamesh pulling rando fanservice outta nowhere. Shame, for a show that prided itself on no fanservice or standard highschool setting. Grailmud burns through everything that it can overpower. Gil's ego and narcissism its something that overpowered it allowing him to survive and giving him a physical body - and we ARE born naked. Show never clarifies who the hell even won. Kirei? Kirei and Kerry were last people alive. Kerry died so Kirei was last person standing, so he won. Kerry then got revived via Avalon. So his subconscious wish was to level the city? Where the hell did that come from. that was because Kerry destroyed the wrong part of grail and caused the grailmud to spill over into the real world. His villainy is so forced. Except he is not a villain. He is a sociopath(or as nasu describes "void person"). He has no interests or emotions apart from exploring the reason for his void existence and playing those who can feel to "research" that. So in a sense the only way that he found to feel anything is to cause others hurt, so he can empathize with that. -And i'm pretty sure Kirei said that all seven servants needed to die before the grail granted any wish. Saber and Archer look like they're alive n' kickin' to me. Only Archer is. One victor. Saber's fight with Beserker was off-screened. One moment she's getting kicked in the face, next moment her sword's stuck in Beserker's chest. WTF? Yeah that is due to poor execution, but one can predict how their fight went through their identities and how their previous fight in their lives went. Kiritsugu was such a weak character. "Ending all conflict" my arse - that's something a naive teenager would wish for. Except that Kerry knew that and resolved that conflict via "kill few for sake of many" kind of mentality, intentionally trying to harden himself emotionally to be able to carry that out. Saber and Kiritsugu's relationship was weak, weak, weak. Honestly the relationship between Saber and Caster had more development than theirs did. Does Kiritsugu ever even address her, aside from using command seals? Why does he ignore her, again? Because her ideals are the opposite of his? Saber genuinely believes in saving everyone and it is the foundation of her country. For Kerry those ideals remind of his childhood and reveal his current hypocrisy, for Saber, Kerry reminds of the failure of her ideals when Camelot fell. So both avoid and despise each other completely. Kerry views Saber as nothing but a tool to be used and Saber views Kerry as despicable miserable wrong existence. Seems more like a lack of attention on your part than actual flaws. |
AhenshihaelMay 15, 2014 7:17 AM
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| Let me correct/expand some stuff. Fai said: The grail's random black ooze coming from nowhere. Its only HINTED(Via what Zouken says about it) at in Fate/Zero because Fate/Zero shows how the situation ten years latter in FSN(visual novel and most likely the upcoming adaptation latter this year) came to be. Zouken's dialogue with Kirei with that hint was omitted in the anime. Fai said: Gilgamesh pulling rando fanservice outta nowhere. Shame, for a show that prided itself on no fanservice or standard highschool setting. Grailmud burns through everything that it can overpower. Gil's ego and narcissism its something that overpowered it allowing him to survive and giving him a physical body - and we ARE born naked. He would need mana in order to wear ANY clothing/armor he was using all this time.With a physical body it is a bit too consuming to do that.Plus he doesnt give a shit. Fai said: Kiritsugu won the Holy Grail War.Kirei "got his wish granted" by chance.So both won but overall it was Kirei's victory if you just look at how Kiritsugu ended up like.Show never clarifies who the hell even won. Kirei? Kirei and Kerry were last people alive. Kerry died so Kirei was last person standing, so he won. Kerry then got revived via Avalon. Fai said: No his subconscious desire is to see others getting hurt.The city was partially destroyed because of what Fai said.So his subconscious wish was to level the city? Where the hell did that come from. that was because Kerry destroyed the wrong part of grail and caused the grailmud to spill over into the real world. Fai said: The Grail needs ALL seven Servants in order to open a gate to Akasha, which is what Tokiomi wants and what Kirei was talking about.For any other wish it just needs A LOT of energy.Some Servants have more than others.Rider had more than usual thanks to the Seals that Waver used.Gilgamesh has enough energy to match 3 or more Servants.-And i'm pretty sure Kirei said that all seven servants needed to die before the grail granted any wish. Saber and Archer look like they're alive n' kickin' to me. Only Archer is. One victor. Fai said: Fai what?Saber's fight with Beserker was off-screened. One moment she's getting kicked in the face, next moment her sword's stuck in Beserker's chest. WTF? Yeah that is due to poor execution, but one can predict how their fight went through their identities and how their previous fight in their lives went. Berserker run out of mana right before a decisive hit against Saber.Berseker was fightingwithout mana from Kariya for more than 10 secs.All of that along with their backstory was omitted in the anime for "reasons".But it can be deduced with the scenes where Kariya falls down. TG82 said: Kiritsugu was such a weak character. "Ending all conflict" my arse - that's something a naive teenager would wish for. ^Point of the series? Prologue of the LN:"Let us tell the story of a certain man. The tale of a man who, more than anyone else, believed in his ideals, and was driven to despair by them. The dream of that man was pure. His wish was for everyone in this world to be happy; that was all that he asked for. It is a childish ideal that all young boys grow attached to at least once, one that they abandon once they grow accustomed to the mercilessness of reality. Any happiness requires a sacrifice, something all children learn when they become adults. But, that man was different. Maybe he was just the most foolish of all. Maybe he was broken somewhere. Or maybe, he might have been of the kind we call 'Saints', entrusted with God's will. One that common people cannot understand." That is why he gave up on it before learning about the grail. |
ssjokg said: Fai said: Fai what?Saber's fight with Beserker was off-screened. One moment she's getting kicked in the face, next moment her sword's stuck in Beserker's chest. WTF? Yeah that is due to poor execution, but one can predict how their fight went through their identities and how their previous fight in their lives went. Berserker run out of mana right before a decisive hit against Saber.Berseker was fightingwithout mana from Kariya for more than 10 secs.All of that along with their backstory was omitted in the anime for "reasons".But it can be deduced with the scenes where Kariya falls down. That's what I said. Considering how previous fight went, you know they are out of mana, but due to who they are they would go on and Berserker with low mana < Saber with low mana. |
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| What previous fight? Berserker with shitty supply of mana>Saber with good supply of mana.It was pretty evident in the story(and even Lancelot's skill proves that). |
ssjokg said: What previous fight? Berserker with shitty supply of mana>Saber with good supply of mana.It was pretty evident in the story(and even Lancelot's skill proves that). scene not fight Saber with low mana > Berserker with no mana. |
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Fai said: ssjokg said: What previous fight? Berserker with shitty supply of mana>Saber with good supply of mana.It was pretty evident in the story(and even Lancelot's skill proves that). scene not fight Saber with low mana > Berserker with no mana. You should decide already. Will I get a warning if I call you a smartass? |
| Ah man, now I'm confused. |
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| Re-watching F/Z made me appreciate it a lot more than watching it the first time, especially the second season. I already loved this series, but holy shit, it's so fucking good. I raised my score for S2 from a 9 to a 10 and moved it up one spot in my top favorites list. Might raise S1 from an 8 to a 9 too. So good. It's too bad anime of this quality are so extremely rare. |
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TG82 said: The only way to argue against this, is by saying that the Grail is evil/corrupted and does what it wants. Which is unfair - it was assumed that the grail was an object, impartial to all sides, that grants wishes, throughout most of the entire zero series. You can't just pull out the carpet from under the viewers like that. Yeah, as you said, it was assumed by the Masters of this war that the Holy Grail was impartial, however, in Fate/stay night is clearly stated that the Grail is indeed corrupted. Zero relies on this since it assumes you have previously read Fate/stay night. That's why is a prequel and not a stand-alone show. If I'm being rude, sorry about that, but this it's been said a lot of times. |
TG82 said: Fai said: Kerry then got revived via Avalon. Did Iri not state that Avalon only works in the relative presence of Saber, and when Saber used Excalibur to destroy the grail, she killed herself as well? So no Saber = no healing? Oh and Kirei was not alive. Kerry shot and killed him. Kerry was the last one alive until he was killed by Excalibur. The grail only grants one wish. Yet, let's see what it did: revived Kirei, revived Gilgamesh, and leveled the city. 1 = 3? Saber was "killed" because she run out of mana.She has a tendency to die because of that. No, Avalon works all the time but being close to Saber makes it even more effective if you arent the Master or else Iri would have been killed by Kirei back at season 1. Kiritsugu used Avalon on Shirou with the last mana it had inside it and then took him to a hospital.Avalon didnt exactly heal him just kept him alive. What do you mean he was killed by Excalibur? The grail didnt even grant ANY wish, if it had then the FSN scenario wouldnt exist along with the world of FZ.Gilgamesh was "granted" a human body due to Avenger fucking up and acknowledging Gil's existence.Kirei was revived because he was still connected with the now almost human Gil.It has nothing to do with wishes.The city was destroyed because Kiritsugu failed to destroy the contents of the grail(hole in the sky).The destruction had nothing to do with a wish. And what JustShiki said. It isnt FZ's fault that nobody listens to VN readers and insist that there is no problem with watching FZ first. |
ssjokgMay 15, 2014 11:15 PM
TG82 said: Did Iri not state that Avalon only works in the relative presence of Saber, and when Saber used Excalibur to destroy the grail, she killed herself as well? So no Saber = no healing? There are TWO different things avalon does. One is the "passive" regeneration that slowly repairs you from even most critical of wounds. That's why King Arthur looks like 20 year old girl The OTHER thing that Iri talks about is the "active" ability That places user in separate dimension, protecting him from all and any attacks. This form of Avalon is stated to be able to survive any and every attack, no matter its power, including all five of True Magics(read: reality warping). At the same time it also rejuvenates user completely, no matter the damage. User could be dead, user could be in shreds - does not matter. It is something that defies reality to restore user to the state he was when he obtained the sheath. That is the ability Saber is needed for actively since Saber is only one who has access to that realm, it being the place where she will go to die in the myths. Oh and Kirei was not alive. Kerry shot and killed him. Kerry was the last one alive until he was killed by Excalibur. Yeah, ssjokg expanded upon it already The grail only grants one wish. Yet, let's see what it did: revived Kirei, revived Gilgamesh, and leveled the city. 1 = 3? Kirei's revival was a unconscious action on Grail's part(either due to Gil's fuck you to it or due to Iri's last Intent being connected to not dying, don't remember). If the true wish were to be granted, All Evils Of THe Would would already have been born, but that was interrupted by Kerry destroying the lower grail. Leveling city had more to do with Kerry's actions conjoined with Grail's intent. than wishing. The only way to argue against this, is by saying that the Grail is evil/corrupted and does what it wants. Which is unfair - it was assumed that the grail was an object, impartial to all sides, that grants wishes, throughout most of the entire zero series. You can't just pull out the carpet from under the viewers like that. It was ASSUMED(that having to do with the fact that pretty much no one survives Grail wars, since none succeeded till now and they are set enough years apart to be in different generations). But at the point one is presented this as narrative, the viewer already knows it is not. The viewer already knows that the whole conflict is futile and the people are dying for absolutely nothing. The big reveal happens in the fictional work this is intended to be a prequel to. In this though there should have been a scene where Zouken speculates about something being wrong with the grai ( ssjokg said: No, Avalon works all the time but being close to Saber makes it even more effective if you arent the Master or else Iri would have been killed by Kirei back at season 1. Kiritsugu used Avalon on Shirou with the last mana it had inside it and then took him t Not exactly. Avalon goes "innactive" after Grail and Saber disappears. |
AhenshihaelMay 16, 2014 12:01 AM
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Fai said: I am only talking about the time Kiritsugu used it to save Shirou.Not exactly. Avalon goes "innactive" after Grail and Saber disappears. You said the same thing some lines above in the same post... |
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