| @Ginevra Can you explain how you do that quote thing? I can only do it if I'm not breaking up the discussion in segments :) What I mean about 03 and 09. There's the original show called Fullmetal Alchemist that started in 2003. It caught up to the manga so it made up it's own material and ending. Later, in 2009, they decided to re-anime the story from the beginning and called it Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. That one follows the manga from the beginning to the end. I'm sorry if you already knew some of that stuff, I just refer to the original as 03 and the newer one as 09 to make it easier :) Yeah, I don't get why they don't think girls aren't interested in self-inserting in a hero. If you know the Avarar shows (not anime, but inspired by it), they made a second series and had it staring a female character. But Nickleodon said they wouldn't do it unless they changed it to a boy. The writers gave them the middle finger and insisted she remained female. The show is AMAZING. I've only seen Stand Alone Complex. From a feminist perspective, it's kind of problematic. Her outfit is stripperiffic and makes no sense for fighting. The Major herself isn't a bad character, but she's the only important female character in the show and she acts exactly like a male. There's even a point in the show where another character asks why she doesn't just use a male robot body because she's such a guy. I don't have an issue with that, except she's the ONLY female and she doesn't act like a female at all and gets a super fanservicy outfit. Even worse, there's a ton of female robots lieing around getting used as sex toys. There's some side female characters that are fine, but they only show up once. Blood + sounds amazing! That's for telling me about it. I've heard of Slayers, I might just get over that animation style. Yeah, I have 0% interest in harems. It shouldn't be so hard to fine cool female characters. It's not just limited to anime either. That's why clubs like this rock. |
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| Re: The Major. Let's not pretend there is any shortage of traditionally feminine characters. Masculine women exist too you know. I personally can't relate to feminine characters at all, regardless of gender. Doesn't make them somehow bad or "problematic". Though, the Major isn't supposed to be especially relatable, being a cyborg and all. Do I need to point out the the problem with the phrase "Standard female/the way a standard female thinks"? I agree with the outfit bits though. It's the main reason I didn't watch the TV series yet. And judging by the cover it's worse in the manga. edit: Fixed the Mayor/Major thing lol |
EarwenMay 31, 2015 11:19 AM
| I've thought a little about FMA's Lust being female. I'm not particularly happy with that either, but if you think about her origins it makes sense. FMA:B SPOILERS Regarding Major Motoko Kusanagi PaladinAlchemist said: Well, she's a fine character as a character, but I can't relate to her. It only gets problematic because she's the only female character of importance in the show and she acts like a dude. Even another character asks why she doesn't just get a male body because she acts exactly like a male. As a female who thinks like a standard female, I just don't relate to her much. Please specify what does it mean "acts like a dude" or "thinks like a standard female" because for me it's confusing as hell. What kind of behaviour would you prefer from her? Also have in mind that 1) she's a cyborg 2) she's a professional soldier. And I think that her character is a bit similar to Olivier Armstrong and Riza Hawkeye who you like. Speaking of other female characters in Stand Alone Complex - I've seen it a long time ago, but as far I remember there was a female prime minister, so quite an important character. I agree that Major's outfit is too fanservicy, I don't like it too, but in this case it's not as painful to watch because she simply doesn't care about that (it reminds me of attitude of Kiryuuin Satsuki from Kill la Kill). You said that it makes no sense for fighting, but remember that she's a cyborg - having an arm ripped off is no biggie for her, no amount of clothing would protect her from that. And not all her outfits are revealing |
Steppenfuchs said: Speaking of other female characters in Stand Alone Complex - I've seen it a long time ago, but as far I remember there was a female prime minister, so quite an important character. I'm not getting into the whole Major discussion, but I just wanted to say that the prime minister was the first one that came to my mind when thinking about memorable female GitS characters (not counting Major). She was a very well handled character and in the end turned out to be - excuse my cliche - a badass in her own way. And yeah, I did notice that Major's outfits became less revealing in 2nd GIG, especially the second half, which I quite appreciated, given my bias for uniformed characters. EDIT: Speaking of great anime, may I suggest this beacon of progressive writing for anyone that feels in mood to lose brain cells and/or rage? I just finished it and it was one of the most offensive things I've seen in my anime-watching history. I think that speaks volumes. How it managed to have the score above 6 is beyond me. Even if this is MAL, that's just way too generous. |
metamorphiusMay 31, 2015 6:44 AM
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| Hmm, it looks like I'm not explaining myself all that well. Just a clarification question, she's "The Major" not "The Mayor" right? It's been a little while since I watched the anime. I've said before, I have ZERO issues with masculine female characters. I only have issues with the idea that the only way a female character can be strong is if she embodies masculine characteristics only. I think the first season of Ghost in the Shell is in danger of promoting that idea. The Major is the only female character who shows up more than once other than the other female cyborgs in Section 9 that don't really do anything. The issue I have isn't her, it's that she's the only one. To me, the anime feels a bit like it's saying "you can be a sex doll (as there were many in the show) or you can be a traditionally masculine person" if you have female anatomy. I only remember a few other female characters including an older woman who needed to get rescued by the older guy (it involved wine or something) who ran Section 9 and a kinda cool criminal lady. Plus, a ton more female victims compared to male victims and random porn watching in the background. You're right, I should have phrased that differently. What I meant was the culturally accepted feminine traits and ways of thinking and masculine traits (like kindness for females and competitiveness for males). I think most people have a mix of both. For me labling something as "feminine standard" doesn't mean that "this is the way most real world females think" but "this is what culture has definied as feminine" rather it's true or not. Though, it is true that testosterone and estrogen effect the brain in different ways which is where these labels come from. I think our culture's biggest problem is that we think all the traditionally labeled masculine traits are "strength" and the female traits are "weakness." In real life, people are way too complex to just fit under any standard label, but using those cultural labels helps with discussions, even if those labels are problematic or lead to problematic ideas (like all females are feminine and all males are masculine). I get the Olivier comparison, but not Riza, she's more like a badass Team Mom the way she looks after Edward (giving him her jacket after Ed fought Scar and telling him about the Ishvalan War) and the way everyone says she "baby sits" Roy. The Major is more like a badass Lad-Ette. I personally love Olivier, but FMA:B has a ton of female characters, including hyper-feminine ones like Winry and that bookish girl. It's showing that, in reality, that females are just as ranged as males and you can be strong no matter what kind of personality you have (even the more feminine guys like Alphonse are portrayed as strong too). As far as what I mean she acts like a guy, I couldn't explain it better than TV Tropes "The Lad-ette," which the Major fits to a perfect T. I'd post the link for that trope's page, but I'm not sure how MAL handles links in posts, but if you just search "tv tropes the lad-ette" it will come up. I have very few things in common with a "Lad-Ette" character so I just don't personally relate. I know that some females do however. I don't remember the female prime minister. If she was there, she was probably the character involved with some episode about wine and needed to get rescued by the old guy who runs Section 9 and the Major and only showed up once. So, even if a prime minister, still not important to the plot as she only showed up once. I've heard they fixed the stripper outfit issue a bit in S2, but I haven't watched it yet. It's pretty bad in S1 though, I've seen way more of her crotch then I've ever wanted too. At least all the reviews for that show are pretty low. Not adding to my "to-watch" list. |
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PaladinAlchemist said: @Ginevra Can you explain how you do that quote thing? I can only do it if I'm not breaking up the discussion in segments :) Sure thing! You need to use these tags, just put the quoted text between them:  I had to use a picture, because otherwise the tags would become invisible. And this site doesn't display symbols like a slash for some reason. :) This site really makes things very uncomfortable. Even preview function is nowhere to be found, and the window to type posts in is so small. Thanks, I see what you mean now by 03 and 09. I didn't hear about the alternative Avatar show, though, what is its title? I've only seen Stand Alone Complex. From a feminist perspective, it's kind of problematic. Her outfit is stripperiffic and makes no sense for fighting. So I was right not to watch it. Yet it's so famous. Is it still worth watching despite its flaws? Is it really as good as they say? I don't normally watch shows like that, because I know it would be hard to stop paying attention to ridiculous outfit. |
I happen to be a bit attracted to females, although to a lot less degree than males. And the particular type I am attracted to is the one who has short hair and character traits that are traditionally defined as "manly". It seems so awesome when something as wonderful as female body is mixed with "male traits". And I do mean it in a cultural sense. I hope I'm not too weird for this club. :) She is too good to be true! *sigh* Naoto Shirogane from Persona 4. So... if Major is like that, I'd be charmed :) But somehow I doubt they could really pull it off. Dressing to flaunt feminine sexuality runs contrary to the idea of someone feeling "masculine". |
| @ PaladinAlchemist Ok, so you can't relate to her, and I can relate. I've always thought that if I'm a woman, all things I do are feminine ;) Why bother with dividing personality traits like that. I'm aware that GITS is not as varied with female characters as FMA, but it's still a great show, definitely worth watching. PaladinAlchemist said: I don't remember the female prime minister. If she was there, she was probably the character involved with some episode about wine and needed to get rescued by the old guy who runs Section 9 and the Major and only showed up once. So, even if a prime minister, still not important to the plot as she only showed up once. http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/Yoko_Kayabuki Now I see that the prime minister appears in S2, so you haven't seen her yet. She's a prominent character, not episodic. |
| Um... Been puttering around the net a bit, and ran back into the old argument of whether Puella Magi Madoka Magica is sexist or not. I've personally come to the conclusion of "not very/not intentionally sexist," but that's interpretive and isn't actually why I'm here. I thought that this would be a better place to ask than any, it seems a lot of people call Urobuchi sexist, without citing specific statements of his, while many deny that he's sexist or insist that he's feminist, without actually citing any specific statements of his. . I searched a (admittedly tiny) bit, expecting to find at least one of those tumblr celebrity callout posts of dubious validity, but all I got were things mostly discussing PMMM and making only occasional broad smacks and him. Does anyone here have a collective receipt for how much sexist s**t he's stated, 'cause I cannot seem to find anything specific. Or should there be a topic for anti-feminist/sexist creators? This isn't exactly on topic... |
103rdWhatever said: Or should there be a topic for anti-feminist/sexist creators? Not to answer the question, as I never do around here, but this reminded me of Urobuchi's matey, Nasu and a blog dedicated to his prose (mostly Fateverse but there are occasionally other posts). After stuff like [NSFW, I'm not kidding] this or this, an average school ecchi harem anime seems almost nice. Does this have anything to do with the discussion at hand? No, but I don't like the discussion at hand I want to spread love and appreciation for Master Wordsmith instead. Whenever I'm told that Nasu is not sexist in any way and that the anime adaptations don't do his writing justice, I like to link this blog. |
metamorphiusMay 31, 2015 6:18 PM
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| Holy cow... uh, don't really know how to respond to the stuff about Nasu... Thinking Nesimonogatari should be added to the list. (I can only speak for the anime version...) Although I can stand most of the other *-monogataris because of their focus on female character development and occasionally interesting occult stuff, Nesimonogatari just takes what's problematic in the other iterations and brings it up to the forefront. Male-pandering fanservice combined with female characters who're underdeveloped relative to their importance to the story, with a heaping teaspoon of lolicon and incestuous undertones to top it all off. Most of the women in the story with depth have it because they got it from the earlier series, while half of those introduced are mostly flat, and out of the other half you have an unexpressive doll and an antagonist who doesn't get much screen time. At least, if memory serves. Haven't seen it in a while. |
| Nisemonogatari is the season that had the brush scene, right? That was definitely the worst in the Monogatari franchise I've seen (though I've seen only 3-4 entries, I think). I mean, I was not a fan of Bakemonogatari, but Nise pretty much forgot about everything that made Bake interesting and upped the fanservice, including loli fanservice, to the nth degree. |
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| Nasu is the worst. Even ignoring that..stuff, his writing (or the translation idk) in general is painful to read. Nisemonogatari is my favorite among the monogatari series but I have no objections to adding it. edit: Oh go d that blog. It's actually worse than what I remember |
EarwenMay 31, 2015 8:06 PM
| I'm not sure this is an appropriate topic to ask, if not I can create a new one. Just tell me! Is Maria-Holic an insult to LGBT women and women in general, or do you think it's just a good parody? |
| I personally found it insulting and shitty. of course, it IS SHAFT, so what can you expect? Buut I only made it partway through episode 1 before I could take no more. So my opinion matters little. Oh and I have no objections to adding ANYTHING shaft to the list, including the monogatari series. |
Amberleh said: Oh and I have no objections to adding ANYTHING shaft to the list[...]. Even Arakawa Under the Bridge and Soremachi? |
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Earwen said: And judging by the cover it's worse in the manga. Actually not. She does wear that weird "thong" or whatever the hell it is she wears in the TV anime in a few panels, and there's a fair bit of nudity. But she's dressed in less revealing clothing a lot of the time. I agree with you that the cover is pervy...at one point, my girlfriend was looking for a sci-fi manga as a birthday present for her brother, and we considered buying him GITS (since it's only one volume and since I like it), but we decided against it because we thought that the cover wouldn't fly with their mom. It's kind of like how basically all the promo art for Spice and Wolf shows Holo naked, even though there's actually relatively little nudity in the series. To me, it feels like the directors of the TV anime flipped through the manga and said "hey, let's pick the most revealing outfit from this and have her wear it all the time so that we can get horny dudes to watch our show!" Which is sad, because I was actually enjoying SAC a fair bit, but the fan service annoys me every time I try to watch it. |
| ^ I really recommend SAC 2nd GIG if you like the first season but are bothered by the fanservice. The Major fanservice has been toned down and is pretty much non-existent in the second part (at least I didn't notice it, although I was only mildly bothered by that kind of fanservice in the first place), and the series is independent from the first season. Of course, I am absolutely biased since I finished it recently and found it to be maybe even among the best anime series created, so there's that. |
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| Shaft is a bizarre case to me. Seems like, when it isn't moe-pandering or being otherwise unsubtle, it has an odd tendency to be accidentally pseudo-feminist. The Monogatari series (generally) features (mostly) 3-dimensional, fleshed-out female characters with a bizarre sense of respect writing wise (still not visually... at all) when it could've been just another by-the-books harem series. Tons of people treat PMMM as a staple of feminism in anime. Even though I disagree. (Of course, the monogatari thing could just be the source material, but then again Shaft did choose to adapt it in the first place.) Keeping that in mind, I'm convinced that any pseudo-feminism apparent in their works is accidental. Also, I'm limiting it to psuedo-*. I'm suddenly imagining if some of the undisputed feminist anime staples were made by them... Does a series's marketing factor into consideration with all this? |
| What's PMMM? And yeah, I too often come to conclusion that feminist perspective is accidental. For example, at first it was likely fan service to invert genders for historical anime or to make anime with main characters as scantily-clad women. But later people started to think that it's feminist, simply because those characters were replacement for males in such anime and so enjoyed being three-dimensional. But the purpose is fan service, just like with Lara Croft, for example, sexualized images always betray it. |
Ginevra said: What's PMMM? PMMM = Puella Magi Madoka Magica |
| SHAFT has made a few shows I really like, but I like them as a studio a lot less than I used to. I think that Akiyuki Shinbo needs a collaborating artist who can tell him when he's full of s*** (or when the stuff he's adapting is full of s***), but as of now, I don't think he has anybody doing that. It's the same problem that Kouchi Mashimo (of Bee Train) has, I think. He's not an idiot: he predicted that cashcowing the Monogatari series and Nisekoi would bring the studio money, and it did. But I sometimes get the impression that he lives in his own little world of masturbatory fantasies...hence why much of what SHAFT adapts ends up being glorified otakubait, especially of late. |
| Knowing Monogatari's author, I highly doubt the fanservice was added extra by SHAFT. Btw when was Parasyte added? I never finished the anime, though I'm familiar with the manga. I certainly wouldn't call it feminist but I don't remember anything too bad about it? Especially when we don't add stuff like Berserk. Honestly the list is a mess all around. We should have some sort of standard for it or just forget it altogether. |
Earwen said: Btw when was Parasyte added? Back here. Not that I agree with the inclusion, but I didn't feel like arguing either way since I am rather lukewarm about Parasyte. |
metamorphiusJun 7, 2015 2:12 AM
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engalleons said: That said, what kind of standard do you have in mind? It's pretty difficult to precisely weigh the value of qualitative arguments against each other, so unless you have everybody agreeing about a series... You're right. I have no idea how to "fix" the list. I guess the tags are a step in the right direction. Maybe we could add a short explanation for each entry, or a link to wherever in the thread it was decided to be added. So people reading would have some context at least. |
EarwenJun 7, 2015 1:50 PM
| Parasyte was added because the female character is mostly there to provide emotional development for the protagonist, right? I'm not sure it qualifies as sexist, since every character is just support for Shinichi. Shinichi is the only real main character. And uh, his hand, lol. Then again, I didn't get very far in the anime... |
MarieSusan said: Now that we're talking about lists, maybe we could make a list of anime/manga that were suggested for group relations, but weren't added for reasons? I think there were several titles that were discussed at least twice,for example Ouran and Wolf Children. Oh Absolutely. If it were up to me Ouran would be the first on the sexist list. What other anime has "haha silly feminists/lesbians" jokes. Also the beach episode. Ugh. new_user said: Parasyte was added because the female character is mostly there to provide emotional development for the protagonist, right? I'm not sure it qualifies as sexist, since every character is just support for Shinichi. Shinichi is the only real main character. And uh, his hand, lol. Then again, I didn't get very far in the anime... It's like "passive" sexism I guess (I just made that up sorry if it's a real thing). It's the same reason Death Note was added, although DN might be worse. I mean it's fine if the list is to warn people of this but then we should also add...everything pretty much. Like, isn't Legend of the Galactic Heroes the same, for example? Also almost every shounen ever. I dunno. But yeah, listing reasons is definitely a step in the right direction. People can decide for themselves if that's something they are bothered by. On the flip side, it's going to be a lot of work. |
Earwen said: It's like "passive" sexism I guess (I just made that up sorry if it's a real thing). Lol. It is, actually, and that is the meaning. But there's a difference between sexism, i.e. the writers failing to write a role for a female character because they don't find it "believable" that a female character would kick butt or be interesting or XYZ- and simply excluding female characters because there aren't other main characters. I figured we're looking at shows that feature undeveloped female main characters who could be replaced by lamps without anyone noticing, or maybe we're listing shows that have this problem in conjunction with other issues, e.g. stereotypes. We don't want to add every show, as you said. Hm, it is a lot of work to add detail to the list... Sometimes people aren't that specific during discussion, which is understandable because sometimes I can't pinpoint what it is about a show that's bothering me either. We could certainly link to the post, like you said. |
| I just wanted to add that most of works from Hiroshi Takahashi carry anti-feminist tones. It may not be evident on the first look, because he probably believes that those sticks feminists have up their asses reach out all the way to their eyes. To put it comically, would it kill him to be more open minded (less of a sexist) and add a tampon here and there ? The indirect insults present in it are just horrid. |
DokubachiJun 9, 2015 12:30 PM
| Hello! I'm new to the club and stumbled upon this thread and wanted to contribute! Nice to meet everyone. (: An anime I'd like to add here is Ookami-san and Her Seven Companions. I watched the entire thing a long time ago, but only just now remembered it recently. I'm not sure if it was already suggested or not and I didn't see it listed [maybe I'm just blind], but I found this story deeply frustrating. I have a lot to say about it, so please be warned! Spoilers for Ookami-san below!: Spoiler @end of Ookami-san: I'm sure there's more I left out, but those were the main things that really bugged me about this series. I tried hard to like it, enough so that I watched the entire thing in hopes that it'd get better and unfortunately that didn't happen. It's shounen though, so. |
SleeveletJul 28, 2015 7:48 PM
| You're the second person to mention that show. I'll add it. |
Earwen said: Knowing Monogatari's author, I highly doubt the fanservice was added extra by SHAFT. Btw when was Parasyte added? I never finished the anime, though I'm familiar with the manga. I certainly wouldn't call it feminist but I don't remember anything too bad about it? Especially when we don't add stuff like Berserk. Honestly the list is a mess all around. We should have some sort of standard for it or just forget it altogether. standardtozed rules are all welcomed because otherwise the list runs danger of just being a "list of stuff some members dislike for subjective reasons" rather than a list with more general value to a larger crowd. I also agree about Parasyte being a strange addition as it is not particulary gender demeaning at all. |
| Jojolion anime when? |
| I kind of can see where Parasyte is coming from, but it still looks out of place near other stuff that is far worse. Any list of "feminist" or "sexist" anime will always be subjective though. Take Kill la Kill, a lot of people interpret it feminist and a lot of people find it sexist. I don't think one is necessarily more true than the other. Personally if it were up to me Ouran would be on the list, so would Skip Beat. But once again they are read as feminist by some people. Hell Skip Beat is on the relations list. |
| Yeah I'ma just add Berserk now. I'm not sure why we didn't? If it's just Nid complaining, then there's no reason NOT to. REMINDER THAT BEING ON THE SEXIST LIST DOESN'T MEAN AN ANIME/MANGA IS BAD. EDIT: Earwen Berserk IS on the list ya goose! |
| Yeah I was told it was added before, the comment quoted is kind of old. |
| Bikini Warriors Beside the fan service targeted at brain dead males/a rare female it had a line at the start of episode 6 saying that females have been stripped and molested and one of them says I'm jealous before she says it's bad. |
| added the fourth most popular anime onto this site |
| It's called Bikini Warriors. I'll add it but I don't think anyone would expect it not to be garbage. |
| Yeah I wouldn't bother adding really obvious stuff honestly, it just takes up space. If you pick up Bikini Warrior or HSotD and expect feminism and empowerment, you need to reevaluate your life. I stated at the beginning I don't really want to add a lot of harems to the list unless they're something that tends to be overpopular with both genders and could be in any way misconstrued, such as Sword Art Online or Elfen Lied. |
Amarantos said: You might as well start adding Highschool of the Dead, To-LOVE-Ru, High School DxD, Kiss x Sis etc. too then... They're all ecchi as well and all the female characters exist for is to be ogled at. I didn't expect a I'm jealous I'm not getting molested message from those shows though. |
| added the fourth most popular anime onto this site |
EvenJellyOn said: Amarantos said: You might as well start adding Highschool of the Dead, To-LOVE-Ru, High School DxD, Kiss x Sis etc. too then... They're all ecchi as well and all the female characters exist for is to be ogled at. I didn't expect a I'm jealous I'm not getting molested message from those shows though. That doesn't matter in this case. They're already obviously sexist, I don't think that really makes them any worse. They are what they are. |
AmberlehAug 28, 2015 3:08 AM
| Welp. Feel free to remove it then. I added it because there already was stuff like "He Is My Master". (Which was the first animu I watched so it'll forever be special to me even though it's terrible. ) |
| Don't you want to add point like "unnecessary fanservice"? For example, it's about about "Shokugeki no souma" (which is good itself thought and has interesting female characters) |
| Not really, because that in and of itself isn't innately sexist. We want to point out things more important and demeaning than just fanservice. |
| I just wanted to chirp in and say that for me personally fan service is one of biggest reasons I won't watch an anime. It's objectifying, and I don't know how much more sexist an anime can get :) I'd probably tolerate fanservice better if it was presented to us in modest quantities, rather than in almost each anime and game. |
| I can tolerate it personally but I don't really understand how you can say fanservice isn't sexist either. |
| I'd say fanservice ain't inherently sexist, as it can really apply to any gender and any sexual orientation, just with differing presentations. However, I'd say that most fanservice is sexist by nature. Rule of thumb for me is if the fanservice supersedes, subverts, or otherwise ignores the desires of the the (in this context, feminine) character(s) in question, then it's sexist in a way that detracts from a work as a whole. It's much easier to look at aversions of this pattern as a means of explaining it. Helena Montoya from Eden: It's an Endless World! is a self-employed prostitute who is extremely sexually active, and the series has no qualms about displaying her in a sexual manner. Regardless of the nature of the series as a whole, she is a positive example of fanservice since while the series is extremely open about her sexuality, SHE HERSELF IS EXTREMELY OPEN ABOUT HER SEXUALITY AS WELL, and the series doesn't go out of it's way to condemn or pedestal her lifestyle. (If she was open about it, but the series was bias one way or the other, it wouldn't work as well since really, she'd be a mouthpiece or strawman of the creator and therefore reflective as a character of the author's sexism.) But the way that most series involve fanservice is just painfully demeaning. There are so many instances where a character who is living their own life, minding their own business, and with their own level of interpersonal comfort, is forced into a position by the creators (or audience) where they're simply gawked at or lusted after regardless of how the character in question would feel about it. It doesn't have any long-term negative consequences for their character (or else it'd probably fit into a different criteria on the list, such as victimized female characters or egregious sexual violence), and almost seems designed to alienate or embarrass anyone who may sympathize with said character while rewarding anyone who doesn't. Basically, the vast majority of fanservice can just seem disrespectful, be it in the form of camera angles, skimpy clothes, breast jiggle physics, or unnecessary/unwanted suggestive/sexual situations. OH! Or a character in a series with normal consequences for basic moral stuff being given a free excuse to invade the privacy of another character because, hey, the audience is in on it too! It's like saying, "Hello, potentially three-dimensional character! We heard you have a sense of personal space and privacy! Well, to hell with that, because we as an audience/author feel entitled to paint every portion of your existence with your crotch! To the point that it'll be the only thing anyone actually cares about within the fanbase! That's not demeaning at all! You should just accept the fact that there's a portion of aliens/gods/thepeoplewhomadeyou who are thoroughly obsessed with the appearance, status, and history of your genitals!" Basically, fanservice has a nasty habit of cropping up where the women in question would object to it, and they have literally no power to actually stop it since they're fictional and under the thumb of the author. It displays a willingness on the part of the author to value the bodies of (almost always female) characters over their actual lives, goals, and meanings, which in my book would definitely qualify as sexism. Of course, this applies to series which aren't mainly pornographic in intention. I'm not sure if it counts as fanservice if the main goal of the thing is to make the audience aroused anyway... with that said, I don't necessarily object to it in pornography in theory, but I definitely think that authors should keep in mind that pornography should exist to absorb the unnecessary sexuality out of other works, and because of that, authors don't need to shoehorn this BS into their own. |
XanxiaSep 23, 2015 10:01 AM
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