New
Mar 14, 2014 4:20 AM
#101
MotRin said: I see Mahouka's MC to be pretty similar to Kirito. Is this where this is going? character wise, I think he's even worse than Kirito |
Mar 14, 2014 4:48 AM
#102
skyzblue said: JetNZ said: Because John Cena Your attitude needs to adjusted.. You can't see me though |
Mar 14, 2014 4:48 AM
#103
I'd rather a super duper over fucking where's your god now MC than a pussy and pathetic pos MC. |
Mar 14, 2014 6:10 AM
#104
Kuro_Kishi said: MotRin said: I see Mahouka's MC to be pretty similar to Kirito. Is this where this is going? character wise, I think he's even worse than Kirito on what basis did you come to that conclusion? |
Mar 14, 2014 6:17 AM
#105
stealthdasher said: Kuro_Kishi said: MotRin said: I see Mahouka's MC to be pretty similar to Kirito. Is this where this is going? character wise, I think he's even worse than Kirito on what basis did you come to that conclusion? I don't mind the overpower part, but I think Tatsuya is a walking wooden board Kirito may be plain, but he at least shows some kind of emotion. His character was pretty good at first, but the author didn't know how to explore it and turned him to another generic harem male lead. |
Hoshino_MariaMar 14, 2014 6:21 AM
Mar 14, 2014 6:17 AM
#106
stealthdasher said: Can you name a single distinct character trait of his that sets him apart from other Gary Stu'?Kuro_Kishi said: MotRin said: I see Mahouka's MC to be pretty similar to Kirito. Is this where this is going? character wise, I think he's even worse than Kirito on what basis did you come to that conclusion? He couldn't even make a meager attempt to deconstruct the concept. But clearly this is just blind hate, eh. Because I totally haven't read the light novel. |
Mar 14, 2014 6:30 AM
#107
Mar 14, 2014 6:31 AM
#108
NeoAnkara said: or there might be so many types of anime fans its hard to please them allNowdays it is hard to please people. |
Mar 14, 2014 6:37 AM
#109
gamer2710 said: Ckan said: But there's still SAO II...mitch3315 said: It's actually quite devious. A stratagem of exhaustion. By the time Mahouka comes out, everyone will be sick of deriding such shows.gamer2710 said: Why is SAO such a heated topic for you losers? This isn't really a SAO thread, people just latched on to it since it was mentioned. This is just the OP getting in before people start saying the same thing about Mahouka. A most cunning plan, Baldrick! Hate to break it to you but you can assume that SAO II won't be much better than the frustrating original. Sure, it will be hyped as shit when it finally starts airing but.. it's pretty much going to suck.. because the source material kind of sucks aswell. |
Mar 14, 2014 11:15 AM
#110
People dislike strong male protagonists? REALLY? Where did you get that? If anything, it's the weak ones who are constantly being bashed nowadays. And Kirito which people seem to think is generally hated has OVER 9000 favorites (top 30). I rest my case. I do agree that strong male characters are very rare nowadays. People mention Guts and Kenshiro - yeah they are from over 10 years ago. |
Mar 14, 2014 11:38 AM
#111
Darklord_bg said: I do agree that strong male characters are very rare nowadays. People mention Guts and Kenshiro - yeah they are from over 10 years ago. You kidding? Every damn battle shounen has a strong MC. And most other action manga too. They are mainstream as fuck. |
Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
Mar 14, 2014 11:54 AM
#112
Shiratori99 said: Darklord_bg said: I do agree that strong male characters are very rare nowadays. People mention Guts and Kenshiro - yeah they are from over 10 years ago. You kidding? Every damn battle shounen has a strong MC. And most other action manga too. They are mainstream as fuck. Most shounen is pretty old already and even then it is a small % of overall shows currently running. I cannot say about manga, since there is a lot I have not read, I was mostly talking about anime. Maybe manga with strong male characters does not get made into anime anymore. From recent series, I can only think of Hunter x Hunter and Jojo. |
Darklord_bgMar 14, 2014 11:59 AM
Mar 14, 2014 12:26 PM
#113
Anime watchers are kinda the losers of sociaty and that is the main reason we watch anime,for escapisme.Ofcourse we will hate on a strong character being the main. That why you see alot of ppl liking NGE or simliar animes,while they hate on shounen or SAO types. Its just sad if you think about it,yet here we are discussing it like the bunch of losers we are T_T one for all,all for one!!! |
Mar 23, 2014 4:21 AM
#114
Personally I like strong protagonist as long as they're not retardely strong (I'm looking at hagure yuusha no estetica), but more like Kagami (strong but not overpowered) or someone that is overpowered but has limits to there power such as Akatsuki Kojou. AS for wimps its fine if they're strong in a mental way (Rock from Black Lagoon) or have hidden potential( MC from freezing) but if they're are major pussy like Shinji (seriously commeeee on, aren't you even embarrassed that your weaker then a girl..no sexist) |
"Whatever happens, happens." - Spike Spiegel |
Mar 23, 2014 4:31 AM
#115
g00dnight said: but if they're are major pussy like Shinji (seriously commeeee on, aren't you even embarrassed that your weaker then a girl..no sexist) I think the problem with Shinji is that people like to live in a fantasy world. They'd like to think that they are super brave and in a life-or-death scenario would not be afraid of anything and do the "right thing". Shinji reminds everyone that when they'd really be in such a situation, they'd be scared just as shitless as he was. But go ahead, dream on about how courageous you think you all are, luckily the chance that you'll ever be in a similar situation is nonexistent, so your illusions will probably never be shattered. |
If you generalize, you're wrong. |
Mar 23, 2014 4:37 AM
#116
Ratohnhaketon said: As much as people bash Kirito, I think Izayoi from Mondaiji-tachi was leagues worse. Sadly, that IS true for the anime. In the later novels, this gets fixed. We learn that Izayoi, while EXTREMELY powerful, is only mid-tier in the Mondai universe. The reason he wasted everyone was because he was brought into the lower levels of the world. Basically, he was level 70, and everyone else was level 20. This gets fixed when the demon lord alliance comes knocking on their door, and their heads. |
Mar 23, 2014 8:28 AM
#117
Shiratori99 said: Why do people hate wimps? Because they are jealous. At least I think that could be it. I wondered why I hated whimps so much, I mean I couldnt care less right? But thinking about it I think its because of a bit of jealousy. I am what you could call a strong character, not necesarily physically, but emotionally. I never cry or show weakness. So when I see those whimps I somehow get mad how those pampered little bitches can just cry around and everything will somehow solve itself all the while I have to face my problems and try to solve them without bitching around or shoving my problems onto others. I guess I am a bit jealous of them, since they are choosing the easy way, and its actually working out for them pretty damn well, while usually the non-wimp characters dont get as lucky. |
Mar 23, 2014 8:32 AM
#118
sedmelluq said: g00dnight said: but if they're are major pussy like Shinji (seriously commeeee on, aren't you even embarrassed that your weaker then a girl..no sexist) I think the problem with Shinji is that people like to live in a fantasy world. They'd like to think that they are super brave and in a life-or-death scenario would not be afraid of anything and do the "right thing". Shinji reminds everyone that when they'd really be in such a situation, they'd be scared just as shitless as he was. But go ahead, dream on about how courageous you think you all are, luckily the chance that you'll ever be in a similar situation is nonexistent, so your illusions will probably never be shattered. Honestly if I where in his situation Id just say fuck it all and drive that goddamn gundam. Dying fighting in a gundam would be a lot more exciting and fullfilling than living a boring ass life for 90 years. If it wherent about piloting a gundam tough I guess I could sort of understand it. Togh I would never be bitchign around like Shinji. Id just say fuck ya all and not do it. |
Mar 23, 2014 8:41 AM
#119
People always have the need to complain about something. First it's pussy male leads. Now it's strong male leads. Guess you have to find something in the middle of the two spectra. Then again you will probably have haters there too. TL/DR people have opinions |
Mar 23, 2014 8:47 AM
#120
skudoops said: It depends on the level of strength, no one really wants to see a dude power through enemies like it was nothing, not to mention the amount of asspulls on top of it. Let me give you an example.. People hate Kirito but like Guts, depending on your perspective they are the same type of character. The difference is guts doesn't plow through powerful enemies like kirito does, he goes through the lesser enemies easily though. If anything, Guts is more of a Gary Stu than Kirito ever was. He plows through everyone without difficulty. |
Mar 23, 2014 8:48 AM
#121
baki502 said: Honestly if I where in his situation Id just say fuck it all and drive that goddamn gundam. Dying fighting in a gundam would be a lot more exciting and fullfilling than living a boring ass life for 90 years. If it wherent about piloting a gundam tough I guess I could sort of understand it. Togh I would never be bitchign around like Shinji. Id just say fuck ya all and not do it. Would you? Would you really? If you were a 14-year-old teenager who's supposedly hated by his father and lost his mother... |
Mar 23, 2014 8:50 AM
#122
Zeally said: People always have the need to complain about something. First it's pussy male leads. Now it's strong male leads. Guess you have to find something in the middle of the two spectra. Then again you will probably have haters there too. ^this.. |
Kagami_Hiiragi said: Idc if you think its weird, I have a life and friends and an income of money. |
Mar 23, 2014 9:01 AM
#123
baki502 said: sedmelluq said: g00dnight said: but if they're are major pussy like Shinji (seriously commeeee on, aren't you even embarrassed that your weaker then a girl..no sexist) I think the problem with Shinji is that people like to live in a fantasy world. They'd like to think that they are super brave and in a life-or-death scenario would not be afraid of anything and do the "right thing". Shinji reminds everyone that when they'd really be in such a situation, they'd be scared just as shitless as he was. But go ahead, dream on about how courageous you think you all are, luckily the chance that you'll ever be in a similar situation is nonexistent, so your illusions will probably never be shattered. Honestly if I where in his situation Id just say fuck it all and drive that goddamn gundam. Dying fighting in a gundam would be a lot more exciting and fullfilling than living a boring ass life for 90 years. If it wherent about piloting a gundam tough I guess I could sort of understand it. Togh I would never be bitchign around like Shinji. Id just say fuck ya all and not do it. You DO know that you are actually providing arguments in favor of the person you quoted right? Because no matter what you say NOW, that's not what you or anyone would do. Shinji is an actual accurate teenager put into position into which usually the most gary stu special of specialest lead characters are put. And he freaks like a normal human being instead of suddenly being THE BEST at everything like your usual unrealistic self-insert lead character would. |
Mar 23, 2014 9:03 AM
#124
I don't. It makes me like the character more. |
Mar 23, 2014 9:03 AM
#125
Dark_Chaos said: skudoops said: It depends on the level of strength, no one really wants to see a dude power through enemies like it was nothing, not to mention the amount of asspulls on top of it. Let me give you an example.. People hate Kirito but like Guts, depending on your perspective they are the same type of character. The difference is guts doesn't plow through powerful enemies like kirito does, he goes through the lesser enemies easily though. If anything, Guts is more of a Gary Stu than Kirito ever was. He plows through everyone without difficulty. While Guts may be very powerful, he does have personality traits that prevent him from being a Gary Stu. For one, after the events of the anime/Golden Age Arc, he becomes a complete asshole, disregarding civilian life when in battles, basically saying "too bad, so sad" if someone dies. Really, he's only admired for his strength, while his personality is the one that prevents him from being a Gary Stu, and thus, a well-written character. He's depicted as a mad beast driven by revenge and anger that's so hot it threatens to consume him and his friends. This even scares the people around him, so they often let him be, making him the loner he was born as. Of course, I'm talking about the manga, just in case you've only seen the anime. In contrast, Kirito is depicted as the knight in shining armor, not only being very powerful and breaking the basic rules of MMOs (unless some of you guys more often solo when playing MMOs instead of partying), but also being loved and admired by his harem for his bootiful looks, flawless personality, etc. His enemies are often one-dimensional and depicted as "the big bad that's undoubtedly in the bad in contrast to our hero who is most definitely in the right," like Sugou, that red-haired female player/the leader of those bad guys in Silica's episode, etc. |
And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible. |
Mar 23, 2014 9:04 AM
#126
mayukachan said: baki502 said: Honestly if I where in his situation Id just say fuck it all and drive that goddamn gundam. Dying fighting in a gundam would be a lot more exciting and fullfilling than living a boring ass life for 90 years. If it wherent about piloting a gundam tough I guess I could sort of understand it. Togh I would never be bitchign around like Shinji. Id just say fuck ya all and not do it. Would you? Would you really? If you were a 14-year-old teenager who's supposedly hated by his father and lost his mother... What does that have to do with piloting a big ass awesome robot tough? And I did loose my father when I was 15, so I know what that feels like. Sure I wouldnt feel like it if it happened right after my father died, but his mother died quite some time ago. If I was in his situation I would have done it, I am 100% sure. I just think that driving a big ass robot > a long life. Also there is the chance I would survive it. And he sort of does in the end. Dont remember that bullshit at the end exactly but from what I got he survived all nice and dandy. |
Mar 23, 2014 9:08 AM
#127
Fai said: baki502 said: sedmelluq said: g00dnight said: but if they're are major pussy like Shinji (seriously commeeee on, aren't you even embarrassed that your weaker then a girl..no sexist) I think the problem with Shinji is that people like to live in a fantasy world. They'd like to think that they are super brave and in a life-or-death scenario would not be afraid of anything and do the "right thing". Shinji reminds everyone that when they'd really be in such a situation, they'd be scared just as shitless as he was. But go ahead, dream on about how courageous you think you all are, luckily the chance that you'll ever be in a similar situation is nonexistent, so your illusions will probably never be shattered. Honestly if I where in his situation Id just say fuck it all and drive that goddamn gundam. Dying fighting in a gundam would be a lot more exciting and fullfilling than living a boring ass life for 90 years. If it wherent about piloting a gundam tough I guess I could sort of understand it. Togh I would never be bitchign around like Shinji. Id just say fuck ya all and not do it. You DO know that you are actually providing arguments in favor of the person you quoted right? Because no matter what you say NOW, that's not what you or anyone would do. Shinji is an actual accurate teenager put into position into which usually the most gary stu special of specialest lead characters are put. And he freaks like a normal human being instead of suddenly being THE BEST at everything like your usual unrealistic self-insert lead character would. Yeah cause you know how I would have acted. If people came to me now and offered me to become a jet fighter pilot Id most likely do it. And that is by no means as exciting as a piloting a giant big ass alien robot thing. Sure I would be scared but I would do it anyway, because some things are too exciting and thrilling to pass up just because your life is on the line. |
Mar 23, 2014 9:09 AM
#128
I like strong male protagonists but I like them better if they still have plenty of room for character development. |
"I have been wielding a blade since before your were swimming around your father's scrotum." - Kurou |
Mar 23, 2014 9:14 AM
#129
mayukachan said: Would you? Would you really? If you were a 14-year-old teenager who's supposedly hated by his father and lost his mother... baki502 said: What does that have to do with piloting a big ass awesome robot tough? Oh, you know. Only everything. Unless you missed everything about Evangelion, that is. |
And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible. |
Mar 23, 2014 9:15 AM
#130
JabonHR said: Would you? Would you really? If you were a 14-year-old teenager who's supposedly hated by his father and lost his mother... What does that have to do with piloting a big ass awesome robot tough? Oh, you know. Only everything. Unless you missed everything about Evangelion, that is. Yeah but I am not shinji. If I got the chance to pilot a big ass robot everything else in the world becomes insignificant in comparison. Hell if the second coming of jesus christ happened Id rather pilot that big ass robot than see him coming. |
Mar 23, 2014 9:19 AM
#131
stealthdasher said: I have recently noticed that some people get pissed when they see a powerful male protagonist in an anime. I don't like it when people use the terms 'Mary Sue' and 'Gary Stu' to label the character and then follow up by blindly bashing the anime without even giving it a chance. I think that as anime fans we should remain open-minded and not judge based on prejudice. It is the same reason why people hate physically fit people at the gym. Jealousy. |
Mar 23, 2014 9:21 AM
#132
baki502 said: JabonHR said: Would you? Would you really? If you were a 14-year-old teenager who's supposedly hated by his father and lost his mother... What does that have to do with piloting a big ass awesome robot tough? Oh, you know. Only everything. Unless you missed everything about Evangelion, that is. Yeah but I am not shinji. If I got the chance to pilot a big ass robot everything else in the world becomes insignificant in comparison. Hell if the second coming of jesus christ happened Id rather pilot that big ass robot than see him coming. No, piloting an Evangelion would be suffering, as the show spent a lot of time showing you that. A.) When in battles, you'd feel every hit land on you as if it were inflicted on your naked flesh, so you'd feel it like it was really happening to you if you were being electrocuted, impaled, being practically incinerated, etc. B.) You find out that the Evangelion is technically alive and capable of going into Beast Mode, and if not stopped, can trap you inside the thing for a month with only the LCL sustaining you. |
And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible. |
Mar 23, 2014 9:24 AM
#133
Only if they are poorly illustrated like Kirito |
It is so dense. Every single image has so many things going on. |
Mar 23, 2014 9:27 AM
#134
JabonHR said: baki502 said: JabonHR said: Would you? Would you really? If you were a 14-year-old teenager who's supposedly hated by his father and lost his mother... What does that have to do with piloting a big ass awesome robot tough? Oh, you know. Only everything. Unless you missed everything about Evangelion, that is. Yeah but I am not shinji. If I got the chance to pilot a big ass robot everything else in the world becomes insignificant in comparison. Hell if the second coming of jesus christ happened Id rather pilot that big ass robot than see him coming. No, piloting an Evangelion would be suffering, as the show spent a lot of time showing you that. A.) When in battles, you'd feel every hit land on you as if it were inflicted on your naked flesh, so you'd feel it like it was really happening to you if you were being electrocuted, impaled, being practically incinerated, etc. B.) You find out that the Evangelion is technically alive and capable of going into Beast Mode, and if not stopped, can trap you inside the thing for a month with only the LCL sustaining you. Still worth it. As for Point A) I dont see the problem, I mean a brawl would be kind of boring without feeling pain anyway right? As for point B) that kind of sucks, but Id still risk it. As I said I just think that having the chance to do something like that is just way more exciting than living a long life, forming a family and dying of old age. And I could always just back out if I decided that my fear of death and pain, or the wish for a long life with family and friends would be higher than the excitement getting from piloting that thing. But as I am now, I think I would do it. At least for one mission or two, maybe after that the excitement I get from it would get smaller. |
Mar 23, 2014 9:58 AM
#135
baki502 said: JabonHR said: baki502 said: JabonHR said: Would you? Would you really? If you were a 14-year-old teenager who's supposedly hated by his father and lost his mother... What does that have to do with piloting a big ass awesome robot tough? Oh, you know. Only everything. Unless you missed everything about Evangelion, that is. Yeah but I am not shinji. If I got the chance to pilot a big ass robot everything else in the world becomes insignificant in comparison. Hell if the second coming of jesus christ happened Id rather pilot that big ass robot than see him coming. No, piloting an Evangelion would be suffering, as the show spent a lot of time showing you that. A.) When in battles, you'd feel every hit land on you as if it were inflicted on your naked flesh, so you'd feel it like it was really happening to you if you were being electrocuted, impaled, being practically incinerated, etc. B.) You find out that the Evangelion is technically alive and capable of going into Beast Mode, and if not stopped, can trap you inside the thing for a month with only the LCL sustaining you. Still worth it. As for Point A) I dont see the problem, I mean a brawl would be kind of boring without feeling pain anyway right? But a brawl rarely ever involves being impaled or having your limbs cut/ripped off, cause that's basically the type of pain you should prepare to feel when deciding to fight with an eva (and I doubt that's the type of pain one can possibly prepare themselves to until they actually experience it). JabonHR said: Dark_Chaos said: skudoops said: It depends on the level of strength, no one really wants to see a dude power through enemies like it was nothing, not to mention the amount of asspulls on top of it. Let me give you an example.. People hate Kirito but like Guts, depending on your perspective they are the same type of character. The difference is guts doesn't plow through powerful enemies like kirito does, he goes through the lesser enemies easily though. If anything, Guts is more of a Gary Stu than Kirito ever was. He plows through everyone without difficulty. While Guts may be very powerful, he does have personality traits that prevent him from being a Gary Stu. For one, after the events of the anime/Golden Age Arc, he becomes a complete asshole, disregarding civilian life when in battles, basically saying "too bad, so sad" if someone dies. Really, he's only admired for his strength, while his personality is the one that prevents him from being a Gary Stu, and thus, a well-written character. He's depicted as a mad beast driven by revenge and anger that's so hot it threatens to consume him and his friends. This even scares the people around him, so they often let him be, making him the loner he was born as. Of course, I'm talking about the manga, just in case you've only seen the anime. In contrast, Kirito is depicted as the knight in shining armor, not only being very powerful and breaking the basic rules of MMOs (unless some of you guys more often solo when playing MMOs instead of partying), but also being loved and admired by his harem for his bootiful looks, flawless personality, etc. His enemies are often one-dimensional and depicted as "the big bad that's undoubtedly in the bad in contrast to our hero who is most definitely in the right," like Sugou, that red-haired female player/the leader of those bad guys in Silica's episode, etc. This. Also important to note that while Guts is certainly OP, he always suffers severe physical after effects each time he goes all out to fight (see when he killed "a hundred men" and how seriously injured he was after that |
Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Mar 23, 2014 12:12 PM
#136
JabonHR said: Dark_Chaos said: skudoops said: It depends on the level of strength, no one really wants to see a dude power through enemies like it was nothing, not to mention the amount of asspulls on top of it. Let me give you an example.. People hate Kirito but like Guts, depending on your perspective they are the same type of character. The difference is guts doesn't plow through powerful enemies like kirito does, he goes through the lesser enemies easily though. If anything, Guts is more of a Gary Stu than Kirito ever was. He plows through everyone without difficulty. While Guts may be very powerful, he does have personality traits that prevent him from being a Gary Stu. For one, after the events of the anime/Golden Age Arc, he becomes a complete asshole, disregarding civilian life when in battles, basically saying "too bad, so sad" if someone dies. Really, he's only admired for his strength, while his personality is the one that prevents him from being a Gary Stu, and thus, a well-written character. He's depicted as a mad beast driven by revenge and anger that's so hot it threatens to consume him and his friends. This even scares the people around him, so they often let him be, making him the loner he was born as. Of course, I'm talking about the manga, just in case you've only seen the anime. In contrast, Kirito is depicted as the knight in shining armor, not only being very powerful and breaking the basic rules of MMOs (unless some of you guys more often solo when playing MMOs instead of partying), but also being loved and admired by his harem for his bootiful looks, flawless personality, etc. His enemies are often one-dimensional and depicted as "the big bad that's undoubtedly in the bad in contrast to our hero who is most definitely in the right," like Sugou, that red-haired female player/the leader of those bad guys in Silica's episode, etc. Yeah, I was only talking about the Anime versions, as I have not read the Manga versions of either, so obviously I cannot comment on them, but regarding the Anime versions, my statement stands. |
Mar 23, 2014 12:33 PM
#137
@Dark_Chaos Difference is Guts has a personality. Also the level of OPness alone does not make a character a Gary Stu/Mary Sue. |
Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Mar 23, 2014 12:42 PM
#138
I like strong male protagonists.. actually prefer them |
Mar 23, 2014 12:44 PM
#139
I think people hate this kind of OP leads: http://i.imgur.com/wXdez5s.jpg But like this kind of OP leads: http://scm-l3.technorati.com/10/04/30/12345/rambo.jpg |
Mar 23, 2014 12:45 PM
#140
baki502 said: I think people hate this kind of OP leads: http://i.imgur.com/wXdez5s.jpg But like this kind of OP leads: http://scm-l3.technorati.com/10/04/30/12345/rambo.jpg Yeah, I think you nailed it. |
Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Mar 23, 2014 12:47 PM
#141
Mar 23, 2014 12:56 PM
#142
Sapewloth said: @Dark_Chaos Difference is Guts has a personality. Also the level of OPness alone does not make a character a Gary Stu/Mary Sue. You are implying Kirito does not? |
Mar 23, 2014 12:58 PM
#143
baki502 said: I think people hate this kind of OP leads: http://i.imgur.com/wXdez5s.jpg But like this kind of OP leads: http://scm-l3.technorati.com/10/04/30/12345/rambo.jpg /thread. |
Mar 23, 2014 1:03 PM
#144
Dark_Chaos said: Sapewloth said: @Dark_Chaos Difference is Guts has a personality. Also the level of OPness alone does not make a character a Gary Stu/Mary Sue. You are implying Kirito does not? Yes. |
Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Mar 23, 2014 1:08 PM
#145
SolBlade said: baki502 said: I think people hate this kind of OP leads: http://i.imgur.com/wXdez5s.jpg But like this kind of OP leads: http://scm-l3.technorati.com/10/04/30/12345/rambo.jpg /thread. ^ This |
Mar 23, 2014 1:12 PM
#146
Sapewloth said: Dark_Chaos said: Sapewloth said: @Dark_Chaos Difference is Guts has a personality. Also the level of OPness alone does not make a character a Gary Stu/Mary Sue. You are implying Kirito does not? Yes. Look at this personality right here! Yes that is Kirito from SAO S2 |
Mar 23, 2014 1:16 PM
#147
Sapewloth said: Dark_Chaos said: Sapewloth said: @Dark_Chaos Difference is Guts has a personality. Also the level of OPness alone does not make a character a Gary Stu/Mary Sue. You are implying Kirito does not? Yes. You'll have to forgive me if I don't take you seriously, Sapewloth. You see, I hear this statement getting thrown around a lot, but when I question those individuals on how they came to such a conclusion, I don't exactly get a solid answer. |
Mar 23, 2014 1:50 PM
#148
Dark_Chaos said: Sapewloth said: Dark_Chaos said: Sapewloth said: @Dark_Chaos Difference is Guts has a personality. Also the level of OPness alone does not make a character a Gary Stu/Mary Sue. You are implying Kirito does not? Yes. You'll have to forgive me if I don't take you seriously, Sapewloth. You see, I hear this statement getting thrown around a lot, but when I question those individuals on how they came to such a conclusion, I don't exactly get a solid answer. I just spent like twenty minutes practically trying to write an essay on his not-personality. He really doesn't have much going for him, other than basic traits like "strong, courageous, determined, etc." The author doesn't know what to do with Kirito. At first, he tries to connect Kirito with the viewer by presenting him as a shut-in who plays video games to escape from his real life, but that connection is thrown out the window when it turns out he has traits that no shut-in actually has, like magic charm that gets him a harem, charisma that gets him friends, skills that allow him to solo an MMORPG without partying up just because "muh edginess and loneliness." The prosecution rests. The defense may now speak on what kind of unique characteristics Kirito possesses as a person. |
And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible. |
Mar 23, 2014 2:17 PM
#149
I'm gonna bust out some Joseph Campbell on you people: So according to story writing theory, "good stories" require conflict and a "character arc." A "character arc" requires growth, aka the character changes in some way, either mentally, emotionally, or physically (usually all three). Joseph Campbell was a big-time mythology nerd who studied myths the world over and came up with a formula for the one myth - known as the "Hero's Journey," which most all of Hollywood has used as a guideline for creating good cinema since. While the Hero's Journey is not a necessity for creating a good story, nordoes adhering to it always lead to one (some great films break from this), it was the first template for categorizing and discussing what enduring stories were and why. And it underscored the notion that you need a character to change in some way to be engaging. So the "problem" with most "strong" male protagonists is that they have no character arc, no growth. They don't change emotionally or mentally. They're just super strong. And the lack of change means they're typically found to be inherently uninteresting. You can get away with this if they aren't the main character. Take Alucard from Hellsing. While he is a core character, Seras and even Integra are more of the main characters, and they do go through their own arcs that change them. Guts is a strong dude, but we see him transform into who he is. Rambo undergoes a HUGE character arc. The movie isn't about how much of a badass he is, but how he struggles with PTSD. The struggle being the key. |
Mar 23, 2014 2:24 PM
#150
Dark_Chaos said: Sapewloth said: Dark_Chaos said: Sapewloth said: @Dark_Chaos Difference is Guts has a personality. Also the level of OPness alone does not make a character a Gary Stu/Mary Sue. You are implying Kirito does not? Yes. You'll have to forgive me if I don't take you seriously, Sapewloth. You see, I hear this statement getting thrown around a lot, but when I question those individuals on how they came to such a conclusion, I don't exactly get a solid answer. Ok here we go ! EDIT: better put that shit in spoilers-- The main problem I had with Kirito was his blandness : there is basically nothing I got from him at the end of 24 episodes except for the fact that he's a somewhat antisocial & hardcore gamer who loves Asuna. Period Actually, the first three eps did a pretty fine job establishing his character, what type of person he was etc. (even though the whole "beater" just felt like the author wanted to give his MC a special status, as if Kirito's out-of-this-world gaming skills weren't enough) but that's all we got : the rest of the show was just basically him plowing through his ennemies while bending or not the world to his will. I felt litteraly nothing towards him (no liking, no disliking, no annoyance, nothing), and the huge timeskips in the beginning didn't help : it's as though they were used as a replacement of actual characterisation. Another issue I had was his inconsistency : claiming to play solo at the end of the first ep and spending the next eps helping a random loli and joining a guild. Saying to Lizbeth she helped him realize he prefers dying than surviving alone and next ep... he's alone slashing mobs. I just couldn't follow this dude. His relationship with Asuna brought nothing to the table, and neither did his other friendships (my main gripe being Kirito-Klein that wasn't explored like... at all). Strangely, he's getting more or less very comfortable with all the girls he meets but when it comes down to Klein, who was like the first guy he talked to, he remains pretty distant. Why ? His romance with Asuna could have been a great opportunity for chara dvpment also (him realizing he can rely on others, or some shit like that), but it just doesn't show in his actions : he still continued to plow through his ennemies on his own, because there's no need to rely on others when you alone are worth an entire army. Lastly, there's not a single flaw I can find in Kirito that would fit in the author's vision of his character (or at least the vision that the author wanted to give us of him) : he always has a right reason to fight, he's always nice to the people he meets despite the dilemma evoked in ep. 1 of the beta-testers who prefer letting other players in the shit (which was completely dished out btw, as we never got to meet any other beta tester), he's OP (so unless the opponent cheats or is immortal he will plow through), he's a 'beater' (whatever the hell that means), but all that is not enough so he recieves another skill to reward him for his OPness... That's just too much. There's not a single moment when I'm not supposed to agree with his actions: his only 'mistake' being not to tell his level to the members of the first guild he joined (which in itself is not a mistake since they could have just looked at his HP bar if they really wanted to know: what happened afterwards was their fault for being stupid, nos his). In ALO he just fucks around helping solving some random political conflict while in the meantime Asuna is in constant danger of getting raped. No one calls him out on that and the show never paints his careless behavior in bad light, because he's not supposed to be wrong. The worst thing though is probably how every single person in the universe, ennemy or ally seems to serve as a foil for Kirito (even Asuna) : to show how sociable (ingame) he is, to show how strong he is, to show how cool he is (to have GF that happens to be the strongest and the hottest in the server). Bleh PS: you asked for a solid answer. |
SapewlothMar 23, 2014 2:36 PM
Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
More topics from this board
» Anime as good as Evangelion/Utena?Thecutedog - 10 hours ago |
17 |
by Lucifrost
»»
9 seconds ago |
|
» Most Disappointing "Good" Shows ( 1 2 )Treatise - Sep 19 |
65 |
by JoeChip
»»
5 minutes ago |
|
» Underrated villainsJoeChip - 18 minutes ago |
5 |
by WatchTillTandava
»»
7 minutes ago |
|
» What are some frequently used plot devices used in anime/manga but are not observed a lot in real life?Lincompoop - 9 hours ago |
6 |
by Lucifrost
»»
11 minutes ago |
|
» What is your opinion about AnitubersKirika_Madeleine - Sep 10 |
48 |
by KryzakamiHrybami
»»
13 minutes ago |