Takuan_Soho said: symbv said: You are absolutely right here. Time after time when I bump into discussions in Japanese forum, the most important thing fans consider is how appealing the characters are, and this involves everything from the basic visual like the character design art, to how the characters are animated, to their personality, speech and behavior in the story. Fans in the west often put a lot of stress on "plot" and often seems to be willing to put art and sakuga at a much lower priority, but this is not how fans in Japan see things. I wanted to call this out for many reasons, in no particular order: 1) The west is as character obsessed as Japan. Shows with appealing characters are essential. The "stress" on plot only occurs with a very small segment of fans, many of whom have fixed on anime because, on average, animation has better plots than most western shows, but they are not the norm. This can been demonstrated by the success of reality shows and "talents" like Kim Khardasian, the west has no claim at being more plot driven. Perhaps Western anime fans can lay claim to this, but even here, I would still say that they are merely a very vocal minority. 2) The fact that character appeal matters really brings into question the very existence of moe. If anything the definition of "moe" is the art of making characters appealing, which soon becomes a tautology. 3) When we understand that moe is character appeal, then moe as a Japanese-centric concept totally disappears. Japanese animation follows Osamu Tezuka, Tezuka followed Disney. Can anyone tell me that the appeal of Disney isn't "moe"? This is a very good post, and one that probably deserves to be put in big bold letters at the top of the Anime Discussion forum for everyone who goes on there to read. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
Takuan_Soho said: Well, all I said is about the view from anime fans in the west, so your example of reality shows or "talents" are not really relevant here. The context has always been anime only. I never meant to say the west did not care about characters at all in every media. And the stress on "plot" by western anime fans is a fact, and the prevalence of such view can be found in many western forums starting from this one. I wanted to call this out for many reasons, in no particular order: 1) The west is as character obsessed as Japan. Shows with appealing characters are essential. The "stress" on plot only occurs with a very small segment of fans, many of whom have fixed on anime because, on average, animation has better plots than most western shows, but they are not the norm. This can been demonstrated by the success of reality shows and "talents" like Kim Khardasian, the west has no claim at being more plot driven. Perhaps Western anime fans can lay claim to this, but even here, I would still say that they are merely a very vocal minority. Takuan_Soho said: Yes, you can call "moe" an evolved form of the art of making character appealing, and in this view it is no longer a tautology. One particularly influential work related to MOE and its concept is the Japan's Database Animals by Azuma Hiroki. The book is not really about moe, or at least it is not only about moe, but the underlying concept is very similar. Basically the whole business of MOE is to identify various elements of characters that are particularly invocative of moe feelings, and then shift and sort and select the elements needed, then execute them in enticing manners, with the objective of boosting up the moe feelings from the audience. All this deliberate effort cannot just be dismissed as "a tautology". 2) The fact that character appeal matters really brings into question the very existence of moe. If anything the definition of "moe" is the art of making characters appealing, which soon becomes a tautology. Takuan_Soho said: MOE comes as a concept only the recent 20 years or so because people started to notice that there are intentional effort made to pinpoint certain "moe needs" (the yearning to feel the intense endearing feeling towards the character where in more extreme case can get the audience to really fall in love with it) and injects the attributes to make the character more "moe". In the past character design did not actually go through such process - it was more like a general feeling to make the character looks good, looks cool or looks pretty. The idea is not that moe equals to character appeal (if so, why didn't people call characters like JoJo or LisaLisa moe?). It is about a particular way and style of increasing the character appeal. And if this is not a Japanese-centric or anime/manga/LN subculture centric concept I don't know what it is. Granted the concept of MOE is fuzzy and often subject to abuse, the core concept is still very much a product in the anime subculture industry in the early 21st century. Talk about hos anime character design coming from Tezuka and Disney is again not much relevant (and is one of the most common confusion about MOE that I have seen). 3) When we understand that moe is character appeal, then moe as a Japanese-centric concept totally disappears. Japanese animation follows Osamu Tezuka, Tezuka followed Disney. Can anyone tell me that the appeal of Disney isn't "moe"? Kaioshin_Sama said: I am not sure what you mean by saying "seen it happen before too many times". When was the last time a single episode of pandering managed to turn around the fortune of a series? We are not talking about a nudge or some boost here. Remember when you made your first reply you were replying to the question "Is it possible, for an anime's sales to have a turn around after one episode?" If you have really seen it so many times, perhaps you could let us know a few of such examples. Just seen it happen before too many times to expect otherwise. This episode has all the makings of a last ditch pander so lets see how it works. It hasn't gained terribly much more than usual post episode going by stalker but the day is young. Higashi_no_Kaze said: It is just that I did not have much to say about it. Series based on grown-ups seem to start with inherent disadvantage (look at Genshiken Nidaime or even Samurai Flamenco) and this one seems to be no exception. The occult bit at the beginning (and then something supernatural) set an odd tone and many watchers did not really know what to expectI also just realized that Golden Time wasn't mentioned, at least not as one of the bolded titles. Or did I overlook it? The sales predictions look pretty bad :/ |
symbvNov 7, 2013 12:24 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| Oricon Daily All-Genre Top 30 DVD/Top 20 BD Rankings for Nov 6. DVD **4 **5 **6 **7 **8 **9 *10 週 *** **3 **3 *** *** *** *** | -- | Free！3 *** **8 *27 *** *** *** *** | -- | ONE PIECE 15th Season Gyojintou-hen 12 *** *15 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hataraku Maou-sama！5 *** *16 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | NARUTO Shippuden Ninkai Taisen 3 *20 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hetalia 4 BD **4 **5 **6 **7 **8 **9 *10 週 *** **1 **1 *** *** *** *** | -- | Free！3 *** **4 **2 *** *** *** *** | -- | SymphogearG 2 *** **3 **5 *** *** *** *** | -- | Hataraku Maou-sama！5 **1 *** *12 *** *** *** *** | -- | Infinite Stratos 2 1 *** *11 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Pon Poko Movie *** *15 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | WataMote 2 *10 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | NekoShiro 1 *11 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hanagai NEXT 4 *13 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Eva 3.33 *16 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Highschool D×D NEW 2 *17 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Tamayura ~More Aggressive~ 1 *18 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | UtaPri 2000% 5 *19 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Yamato 2199 7 |
The News Club: Quality News/Discussion (anime, CDs, manga, novels, games, seiyuu), & sales data (daily, weekly, mid-year, yearly). |
symbv said: And yet the occult and supernatural aspects are part of the original novels of Golden Time and there are over 20K buyers in the Oricon charts for the recent volume 7 which still has those aspects in it 7 volumes into the series so there are at least that many people who should NOT have been surprised. And yet it seems few of them are willing to buy the series.Higashi_no_Kaze said: It is just that I did not have much to say about it. Series based on grown-ups seem to start with inherent disadvantage (look at Genshiken Nidaime or even Samurai Flamenco) and this one seems to be no exception. The occult bit at the beginning (and then something supernatural) set an odd tone and many watchers did not really know what to expectI also just realized that Golden Time wasn't mentioned, at least not as one of the bolded titles. Or did I overlook it? The sales predictions look pretty bad :/ Now, I will say, the first episode was HEAVILY adapted from the first novel. I think it was well adapted but I know that often changes are not liked by readers of the original material. The main character's situation is shown right away in the first scene of the novel and yet that scene was moved to the end of a later episode in the anime and that may have thrown off the people who thought they knew what to expect. So it seems to me like they perhaps are satisfying neither people who knew what to expect nor those who did not which is too bad as I enjoy the novels and the anime as well, even though it is presenting the events in a different order than what is given in the novels. I still think it is working but I am quite tolerant of adaptation changes, probably moreso than most fans of adapted works from what I've read. ---- On another note, great to see Symphogear G v2 flipping into the #2 spot on release day. My copy just shipped an hour ago so it probably won't count until today or tomorrow's numbers tomorrow or the day after. Can't wait to see it properly! Shame it didn't get a proper license over here. ---- I agree, not sure why IS2 is so popular. While it is fun, so far the whole second season seems like a set of OVAs. It really is a harem show with some mecha, not a mecha harem show. But people obviously enjoy the girls enough to keep buying the series. It is adapting heavily, wonder if the sales will drop due to that or if the watchers care? I'm not sure they do in this case. |
hpulleyNov 7, 2013 3:37 AM
hpulley said: I know, this is why I wonder the demography of the LN buying consumers could be different from the demography of the disc buying consumers. Again let's look at Genshiken as an example. The manga is reasonably popular but the discs do not sell. Manga readers would have known the trap character but still when the anime aired there were grumbles that the trap character was given way too much highlight (even though the anime made a lot of effort to make the trap character no different from an actual girl in terms of moe appeal). And yet the occult and supernatural aspects are part of the original novels of Golden Time and there are over 20K buyers in the Oricon charts for the recent volume 7 which still has those aspects in it 7 volumes into the series so there are at least that many people who should NOT have been surprised. And yet it seems few of them are willing to buy the series.. phoenixalia said: Just that I noticed that while there are a few shows from NoitaminA which sold a good number of discs, most of them have lackluster sales, so I wonder if there is a policy of NoitaminA that money making is not the overriding objective. But of course I could be wrong on this. Another speculation is that perhaps the goal is on getting TV rating instead of selling discs. Anyway, the fact remains that NoitaminA is more likely to have anime that stands a bit apart from the standard fare offered by midnight anime and it is possible that the viewing demography could also be somewhat different.But I am intrigued by that last sentence. What do you mean by that...that NoitmainA original anime are not there to make a lot of money? phoenixalia said: I guess for the writer in Japan, the question is different: Since we have one more character here, who don't we throw in some moe elements to her to increase the potential appeal of the anime/manga/LN? Making her just another ordinary adult character would mean wasting such potential. Well, how I see it, we don't get many anime with adults in it nowadays so I think they feel why can't the adults in a school anime at least look like adults? |
symbvNov 7, 2013 7:43 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: Agreed and in the case of Genshiken, aside from the final episode it was a VERY faithful adaptation of those chapters of the manga so I don't believe the low sales were anything to do with the way it was adapted. The trap is very moe in both the manga and the anime, they had a female VA do the female voice parts and a male do the male parts which was a bit odd; I would have preferred they just use a VA with experience in doing both of which there are many examples, but I don't think that was the issue with Genshiken. I think it just works well enough in the manga that the manga readers may enjoy watching the anime but are just as happy to only buy the manga. And I'm beginning to wonder if Kodansha cares about the disc sales or only the manga sales with the anime as a boost because they release a ton of manga adapted series which range from total bombs to barely breaking even in anime disc sales but sell hundreds of thousands of copies per tankobon release.hpulley said: I know, this is why I wonder the demography of the LN buying consumers could be different from the demography of the disc buying consumers. Again let's look at Genshiken as an example. The manga is reasonably popular but the discs do not sell. Manga readers would have known the trap character but still when the anime aired there were grumbles that the trap character was given way too much highlight (even though the anime made a lot of effort to make the trap character no different from an actual girl in terms of moe appeal).And yet the occult and supernatural aspects are part of the original novels of Golden Time and there are over 20K buyers in the Oricon charts for the recent volume 7 which still has those aspects in it 7 volumes into the series so there are at least that many people who should NOT have been surprised. And yet it seems few of them are willing to buy the series.. Edit: Golden Time is by Kadokawa, not Kodansha and is light novel rather than manga of course so there are big differences but perhaps the demographic is similar? I don't know. |
hpulleyNov 7, 2013 5:21 AM
Ejc said: Oricon Daily All-Genre Top 30 DVD/Top 20 BD Rankings for Nov 6. BD **4 **5 **6 **7 **8 **9 *10 週 *** **1 **1 *** *** *** *** | -- | Free！3 *** **4 **2 *** *** *** *** | -- | SymphogearG 2 *** **3 **5 *** *** *** *** | -- | Hataraku Maou-sama！5 Now this is a good sign, I'm hoping it will atleast reach 10.5k~ in its first 2 weeks. |
| Infinite Stratos is a puzzle because a harem anime is never expected to sell >20k much less >30k. While I would not undervalue its art/sakuga (both the character and the action) and character design, if only because these two aspects were two factors that quoted most often by fans in Japan as the strength of this show. These strengths would have been sufficient to explain the sales if it were at 10k-12k level (which is where the most successful harem anime like ToLoveRu could hope to go) but more than 2 times this level at >30k definitely demands more explanation. One reason that I found plausible is the unique situation in the 2011 Winter cour. Back then serious and grim Madoka was generating maddening feverish buzz everywhere. Where was the antidote to counter this Madoka grimness that everyone could not hold back talking about? Those who wanted to get something entirely the opposite of what Madoka was providing found the answer in Infinite Stratos (bear in mind at that time the number of midnight anime was significantly smaller than what we have now so the options for alternative were more limited). In short, while IS was very very successful in siphoning up almost every single harem fan who would buy anime discs, it in fact did a lot better than that, and much of it could be due to its timing. Besides, a few weeks before the release of IS vol.1, the terrifying earthquake/tsunami/nuclear-leaks catastrophe struck Japan, and in the tense and grim mood during the aftermath, while some found catharsis in Madoka, some turned instead to IS for the comfort of the light entertainment full of moe and fan service. Of course this may be the only reason, or even the biggest reason, for its spectacular sales, but I want to share this since I find it interesting and rather persuasive. |
symbvNov 7, 2013 7:38 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
jmal said: Full data for the week: http://bit.ly/HtbK8Q Season/yearly/etc rankings to follow tonight. Madoka movies 1-2 should hit 100k next week! Nice boost this week from movie 3 (which is already at a billion yen box office, almost double either of the recap movies) Also looooool people still replying to Kaioshin's delusions. Will you guys never learn? 1bil already? That amazing, any chances of it beating K-on! ? It seems teekyuu had a decent 2nd week. Its even above S1 now. And with S3 estimated at 3.1k, its looking good for the series. |
rederoinNov 7, 2013 8:03 AM
rederoin said: K-On broke 1 billion after more than 3 weeks and Madoka3 did it in less than 2 weeks. I think chances is high for Madoka to break K-On!'s 1.9 billion box office.1bil already? That amazing, any chances of it beating K-on! ? |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
rederoin said: Very happy to see Teekyuu2 nearly at 3K. For a disc with 18.5 + 3 bonus minutes of total sakuga I'm sure it is making good money, especially considering no physical bonuses but for a small character card which might have been an HMV extra. There are 11 minutes of bonus video (subtitled version of episode 17 as it was apparently too fast for even native speakers, non-credit OP, CMs, PVs) and over an hour of bonus cast (Kana Hanazawa, Mimorin, Yui Watanabe, Kyoko Narumi) and staff commentary (director Shin Itagaki, original character designer Piyo and original creator Roots) as well. The commentaries are really good, a really nice bonus.jmal said: Full data for the week: http://bit.ly/HtbK8Q Season/yearly/etc rankings to follow tonight.... ...It seems teekyuu had a decent 2nd week. Its even above S1 now. And with S3 estimated at 3.1k, its looking good for the series. |
hpulleyNov 7, 2013 8:29 AM
| 2013 Summer Preliminary First Volume Sales Key: Total - # Weeks Charted - Title - Format ranked - Release Date 42,874 *2 Monogatari Second Season [BD+DVD]: 2013/10/23 32,337 *6 Free! [BD+DVD]: 2013/09/11 13,057 *3 Senki Zesshou Symphogear G [BD+DVD]: 2013/10/02 12,384 *3 Brothers Conflict [BD+DVD]: 2013/08/21 ------ 10,000 Line ------ *9,676 *2 Highschool DxD New [BD+DVD]: 2013/09/25 *7,575 *4 Kiniro Mosaic [BD]: 2013/09/25 *6,898 *2 Fate/kaleid liner Prisma☆Illya [BD]: 2013/09/27 *6,650 *3 Dangan Ronpa the Animation [BD+DVD]: 2013/08/28 *5,473 *2 Kimi no Iru Machi [BD+DVD]: 2013/09/25 *5,375 *3 Servant x Service [BD+DVD]: 2013/08/21 *5,001 *3 Love Lab [BD+DVD]: 2013/09/20 *4,596 *3 Choujigen Game Neptune the Animation [BD]: 2013/09/25 *4,479 *1 Tamayura: More Aggressive [BD+DVD]: 2013/10/30 *3,682 *2 Ro-Kyu-Bu! SS [BD]: 2013/09/25 *2,904 *2 Teekyuu2 [BD]: 2013/10/25 ---- Manabi Line (2899) ---- *2,601 *1 Gin no Saji: Silver Spoon [BD+DVD]: 2013/09/18 *2,399 *2 Uchouten Kazoku [BD]: 2013/09/25 *2,370 *1 Makai Ouji Devils and Realist [BD+DVD]: 2013/09/18 *2,072 *2 Rozen Maiden (2013) [BD]: 2013/08/30 *1,708 *1 Kami nomi zo Shiru Sekai: Megami-hen [BD]: 2013/10/30 *1,205 *1 Watashi ga Motenai nowa Dou Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui! [BD]: 2013/10/02 **,932 *1 Genei wo Kakeru Taiyou [BD]: 2013/09/25 **,908 *1 Fantatista Doll [BD]: 2013/09/20 **,809 *1 Genshiken Nidaime [BD]: 2013/09/04 **,656 *1 Kamisama no Inai Nichiyoubi [BD]: 2013/09/25 **,558 *1 Kitakubu Katsudou Kiroku [BD]: 2013/09/18 **,474 *1 Senyuu2 [BD]: 2013/10/25 **,455 *1 Inu to Hasami wa Tsukaiyou [BD]: 2013/09/20 **,441 *1 Futari wa Milky Holmes [BD]: 2013/10/16 **,267 *1 Stella Jogakuin Koutou-ka C³-bu [BD]: 2013/09/18 **,*** ** Blood Lad [BD+DVD]: 2013/09/27 **,*** ** Recorder to Landsel Mi☆ [BD+DVD]: 2013/10/02 **,*** ** Gifuu Doudou!!: Kanetsugu to Keiji [DVD]: 2013/10/25 (not yet on sale or sales data not yet available) Gatchaman Crowds [BD+DVD]: 2014/01/22 |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: I am not sure what you mean by saying "seen it happen before too many times". When was the last time a single episode of pandering managed to turn around the fortune of a series? We are not talking about a nudge or some boost here. Remember when you made your first reply you were replying to the question "Is it possible, for an anime's sales to have a turn around after one episode?" If you have really seen it so many times, perhaps you could let us know a few of such examples. Free with episode 5 if I recall. GuP episode 3, OreGairu's finale to name a few recent ones. Neither looked particularly strong until those episode aired and then they were fairly strong from that point on. Looking at Kyokai Vol 1 now it's almost in the top 100 and hasn't dropped in rank down to the 1,000's overall like it normally would have by now going by the usual trend on Stalker so it's starting to look like it's gain is permanent. One more episode like this and I could see it getting pushed into the top 100 for good. Infinite Stratos is pretty much the ultimate generic harem show, but it's well animated and has really attractive character designs so it doesn't surprise me to see it being such a huge hit in Japan. As Symbv points out you kind of can't think about this sort of stuff logically and IMO you pretty well have to use a lot of lateral thinking to figure out what Blu-Ray buyers will go for. Often it has very little to do with how original, well-written and/or produced a show is and can be as simple as 2ch thought that x scene or character was exceptionally cute and well animated therefore the show becomes a bestseller. Regarding the discussion about moe, I'm largely okay with it nowadays other than when you have characters that just act hopeless and pathetic to illicit sympathy from the audience. Things like characters tripping over themselves, acting childish or crying and needing to be rescued from trifle problems by the male lead do nothing for me, but the whole stoic serious girl with a fierce streak of Justice that can look after herself and is a graceful fighter or otherwise contribute to matters in her own right....that I find quite appealing. I'm glad there seems to be far more of the latter nowadays. |
PeacingOutNov 7, 2013 9:50 AM
symbv said: 32,337 *6 Free! [BD+DVD]: 2013/09/11 *6,898 *2 Fate/kaleid liner Prisma☆Illya [BD]: 2013/09/27 *6,650 *3 Dangan Ronpa the Animation [BD+DVD]: 2013/08/28 Gatchaman Crowds [BD+DVD]: 2014/01/22 AWWWW YEAH second seasons secured! ^^ Those BD specials for Prisma Illya are a nice treat especially that first one <3 symbv said: *2,399 *2 Uchouten Kazoku [BD]: 2013/09/25 I think the anime completed the LN so I'm good. symbv said: **,267 *1 Stella Jogakuin Koutou-ka C³-bu [BD]: 2013/09/18 **,*** ** Blood Lad [BD+DVD]: 2013/09/27 Gainax is going to be busy with the shows/movie they announced earlier this year so even if Stella did get high sales we wouldn't see a sequel soon. That said, I'm glad that there is still shows like Stella that aren't afraid to turn the MC into the villain to address the darker side of sports. Yura's roller coaster ride of development ended nicely and the last episode gave the other charters their needed screen time so I'd be okay if they left it as is for now. Brain's Base rarely gives out sequels even to shows that do above average, so I'm worried about Blood Lad's chances of a sequel. Either way I don't think there is enough source material for a S2 right now so I'm just going have to stick with the manga. |
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Kaioshin_Sama said: symbv said: I am not sure what you mean by saying "seen it happen before too many times". When was the last time a single episode of pandering managed to turn around the fortune of a series? We are not talking about a nudge or some boost here. Remember when you made your first reply you were replying to the question "Is it possible, for an anime's sales to have a turn around after one episode?" If you have really seen it so many times, perhaps you could let us know a few of such examples. Free with episode 5 if I recall. GuP episode 3, OreGairu's finale to name a few recent ones. How were these episodes of pandering? |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
| IF KnK episode 6 really increases the sales considerably I'll succumb to Kaioshin's ideals, because that was easily the worst episode of the series so far. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Higashi_no_Kaze said: IF KnK episode 6 really increases the sales considerably I'll succumb to Kaioshin's ideals, because that was easily the worst episode of the series so far. Deal, and if I'm wrong, which I really hope I am for the same reason I'll truly give up on the whole idea of Kyoani having an unyielding group of willing but sometimes idle supporters that will always guarantee whatever they put out is a bestseller if properly activated by an episode. kuuderes_shadow said: How were these episodes of pandering? Free was but admittedly the others were just kind of good episodes in the traditional sense. |
Kaioshin_Sama said: Well, but those are not the "pandering" episode you were talking about, right? In all the examples you mentioned it was not the pandering cliches thrown in for the otaku that raised the fortune of the show but the development of story and the execution of the anime in the episode which got overwhelming positive feedback. If anything, the only real "turn around" is GuP (but that is more like rocket booster than a turn around). Free was already on upward trend even before ep.5, and OreGairu was not in any slump before the finale; the finale only nudged its performance from good to better, which is always what we expect from a good ending boost. Free with episode 5 if I recall. GuP episode 3, OreGairu's finale to name a few recent ones. Neither looked particularly strong until those episode aired and then they were fairly strong from that point on. Kaioshin_Sama said: Well, looking at the boost the latest ep provided using the Stalker graph, it is not really much different from what happened in the past few weeks after a new episode was aired. So I don't see your "turn around" effect. From feedback I read in Japanese forum, while some people were much entertained by the casual fun and fan service, most just take it as the usual (some might say mandatory) "breather" episode common these days in midnight anime, so fans have already factored in the existence of such "pandering" episode in their expectation about the series, which is why the boost may not be the game-changer you are expecting - to be a game-changer you need something that is unexpected which won wide acclaim, like what happened in GnP for example. This episode of KnK is more like something fans kind of expected, so if the fan service "pandering" is done well, the usual new episode boost will happen but not much more than that, because it is within expectation; and if it was deemed to be done badly, then the boost would just be weaker or no boost at all. Just that.Looking at Kyokai Vol 1 now it's almost in the top 100 and hasn't dropped in rank down to the 1,000's overall like it normally would have by now going by the usual trend on Stalker so it's starting to look like it's gain is permanent. One more episode like this and I could see it getting pushed into the top 100 for good. |
symbvNov 7, 2013 10:00 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| Well, I can't say anything to this list, the only thong I saw is Kiniro mosaic, but I don't see why japanese people like this... no wait, I know, too much moe, simply comedy and cute girls. |
minimiau said: ^^^ Definitely more thongs in IS2 and High School DxD New ... and the sales of both of those are good so I'd say thongs are definitely good for anime disc sales LOLWell, I can't say anything to this list, the only thong I saw is Kiniro mosaic, but I don't see why japanese people like this... no wait, I know, too much moe, simply comedy and cute girls. |
symbv said: Truly sad.*1,708 *1 Kami nomi zo Shiru Sekai: Megami-hen [BD]: 2013/10/30 |
 Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
minimiau said: The execution, directing, background art, music get very very high marks too, so it is quite a bit more than what you said above.Well, I can't say anything to this list, the only thong I saw is Kiniro mosaic, but I don't see why japanese people like this... no wait, I know, too much moe, simply comedy and cute girls. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
Higashi_no_Kaze said: because that was easily the worst episode of the series so far. +1 symbv said: and OreGairu was not in any slump before the finale; the finale only nudged its performance from good to better, which is always what we expect from a good ending boost. That's why most 1 cour anime have the last episode as filler? why does it boost the sales though? they are generally not as good as the canon content. |
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tsudecimo said: I am not sure why you have the impression that "most 1 cour anime have the last episode as filler". If anything, I would say it is the direct opposite. Usually the last episode (or the episodes that cover the denouement) is considered the most important episode which defines a substantial part of the reputation of the series, so if it is executed right, it indeed has the power to boost the sales noticeably, and if the opposite happens (that the ending is done badly) it could depress its sales. That's why most 1 cour anime have the last episode as filler? why does it boost the sales though? they are generally not as good as the canon content. In the case of OreGairu, the last episode is officially named as a spin-off episode, so watchers know that it is an extra bonus not the ending episode (which is ep.12). I think I may have created some confusion in my previous post. For "good ending boost" I was talking about the boost coming from the ending of OreGairu in ep.11/12. As for ep.13, the boost was actually quite limited. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: I am not sure why you have the impression that "most 1 cour anime have the last episode as filler". If anything, I would say it is the direct opposite. Usually the last episode (or the episodes that cover the denouement) is considered the most important episode which defines a substantial part of the reputation of the series, so if it is executed right, it indeed has the power to boost the sales noticeably, and if the opposite happens (that the ending is done badly) it could depress its sales. Filler as in not canon like OreGairu last episode ( Hataraku maou sama, Kore wa zombie, Sankerea, Baka to test, etc), not as bad. I realize they are bonuses but why not end the anime in stronger note with the actual last episode or the denouement as you called it? and have this filler episode somewhere in the middle of the show after the climax of the first part of the story ( like in KnK). In the case of OreGairu, the last episode is officially named as a spin-off episode, so watchers know that it is an extra bonus not the ending episode (which is ep.12). I think I may have created some confusion in my previous post. For "good ending boost" I was talking about the boost coming from the ending of OreGairu in ep.11/12. As for ep.13, the boost was actually quite limited. Oh I see what you meant there. |
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tsudecimo said: But does it validate your claim that "most 1 cour anime have last episode as filler"? If we look at what was aired in the last cour, how many 1 cour anime have filler as last episode? Not HDxD, not Illya, not Dangan Ronpa, not KimiMachi, not Ser x Ser, not Neptune, not Tamayura, not Rokyubu, not Gin no Saji, not Uchouten, not Rozen Maiden, not WataMote, not Genshiken, not Kitakubu, not InuHasami, not KamiNai, not Blood Lad... Even KinMosa's anime original musical in the last episode is just half the episode and has its root from the original manga. Filler as in not canon like OreGairu last episode ( Hataraku maou sama, Kore wa zombie, Sankerea, Baka to test, etc), not as bad. tsudecimo said: One theory is that the budget for the TV series is just for 12 episodes but it also allocated budget to do extra episode as extras for the BD, but at the end they decided to air that extra episode as well. This is also what happened to K-On!! 2nd season. This is why they were put at the end. Also, to be honest, the timeline in the OreGairu last episode is after ep.12 so it just does not make sense to show it in the middle of the show like you suggested.I realize they are bonuses but why not end the anime in stronger note with the actual last episode or the denouement as you called it? and have this filler episode somewhere in the middle of the show after the climax of the first part of the story ( like in KnK). |
symbvNov 7, 2013 8:10 PM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: tsudecimo said: But does it validate your claim that "most 1 cour anime have last episode as filler"? If we look at what was aired in the last cour, how many 1 cour anime have filler as last episode? Not HDxD, not Illya, not Dangan Ronpa, not KimiMachi, not Ser x Ser, not Neptune, not Tamayura, not Rokyubu, not Gin no Saji, not Uchouten, not Rozen Maiden, not WataMote, not Genshiken, not Kitakubu, not InuHasami, not KamiNai, not Blood Lad... Even KinMosa's anime original musical in the last episode is just half the episode and has its root from the original manga.Filler as in not canon like OreGairu last episode ( Hataraku maou sama, Kore wa zombie, Sankerea, Baka to test, etc), not as bad. You took it at face value, my bad I should have worded it better. I meant from my own experience only, that some LN adaption have this bonus episode. One theory is that the budget for the TV series is just for 12 episodes but it also allocated budget to do extra episode as extras for the BD, but at the end they decided to air that extra episode as well. This is also what happened to K-On!! 2nd season. This is why they were put at the end. Also, to be honest, the timeline in the OreGairu last episode is after ep.12 so it just does not make sense to show it in the middle of the show like you suggested. I see, this makes sense. Thanks for your input. |
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tsudecimo said: But I think you would understand how your assertion could easily be taken as the situation in reality if read by those who don't watch that much anime? Anyway, thanks for your clarification!You took it at face value, my bad I should have worded it better. I meant from my own experience only, that some LN adaption have this bonus episode. Just a few more words on filler: Filler (I prefer "anime original" because filler conveys a dismissive connotation to me) as ending is usually deemed needed when the series composition decided that the original material does not deliver the impact that is expected for the ending of the series, and so something needs to be written to make the ending more dramatic or cut off details from the original material so that the ending of the anime looks more clear-cut. It is not as if the staff really like to create filler for the ending. It is more like a decision made as an adaptation choice. And even though it is not canon from the original material's point of view, it is still canon (since the anime is also an official product of the franchise). |
symbvNov 7, 2013 8:23 PM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| @jmal, You may want to add the 2nd week data for Teekyu2 in the Summer '13 Vol ranking as well. It is now above Manabi line (albeit only marginally). *2,464 *1 Teekyuu 2 [BD]: 2013/10/25 is now *2,904 *2 Teekyuu2 [BD]: 2013/10/25 ---- Manabi Line (2899) ---- |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| Even in the few days since symbv posted his report, there's been some fairly significant changes. Here's the series above 3k: KuroBasu2 13286 down about 300 IS2 vol 2 10871 down about 1600 LB! Refrain 8393 down about 1000 Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio 6376 + 726 = 7102 (2 different versions?) up about 600 Kill la Kill 7066 down about 600 Strike the Blood 5418 down about 2100 Non Non Biyori 5408 down about 100 Yowamushi Pedal 3762 up about 500 Machine Doll 3405 up about 300 Kakumeiki Valvrave 2nd 3368 down about 500 Teekyuu 3045 down about 400 Gundam BF dropped below 3k |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
symbv said: 1.1k Golden Time u Why do people not want to buy Golden Time? |
| Oricon Daily All-Genre Top 30 DVD/Top 20 BD Rankings for Nov 7. DVD **4 **5 **6 **7 **8 **9 *10 週 *** **3 **3 **4 *** *** *** | -- | Free！3 *** *** *** **5 *** *** *** | -- | Crayon Shin-chan Movie 21 *** **8 *27 *** *** *** *** | -- | ONE PIECE 15th Season Gyojintou-hen 12 *** *15 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hataraku Maou-sama！5 *** *16 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | NARUTO Shippuden Ninkai Taisen 3 *20 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hetalia 4 BD **4 **5 **6 **7 **8 **9 *10 週 *** **1 **1 **2 *** *** *** | -- | Free！3 *** **4 **2 **6 *** *** *** | -- | SymphogearG 2 *** **3 **5 **8 *** *** *** | -- | Hataraku Maou-sama！5 *** *** *** **9 *** *** *** | -- | Crayon Shin-chan Movie 21 **1 *** *12 *** *** *** *** | -- | Infinite Stratos 2 1 *** *11 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Pon Poko Movie *** *15 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | WataMote 2 *10 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | NekoShiro 1 *11 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hanagai NEXT 4 *13 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Eva 3.33 *16 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Highschool D×D NEW 2 *17 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Tamayura ~More Aggressive~ 1 *18 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | UtaPri 2000% 5 *19 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Yamato 2199 7 |
| The News Club: Quality News/Discussion (anime, CDs, manga, novels, games, seiyuu), & sales data (daily, weekly, mid-year, yearly). |
| Always depressing to see garbage like IS2 sell so much. |
| You should expect a lot of fun. Pure, pretty, colorful, action-packed fun with great characters singing amazing songs. Story is ridiculous but that's not a problem as long as you don't intend to view it as one. Personally, I couldn't imagine different Symphogear. |
| I doubt it, that would be more than TV Series + first two movies + BD Box which I think we can treat as nice maximum benchmark. Of course, if third movie manages to go past that, I would be overjoyed. |
Progeusz said: I doubt it, that would be more than TV Series + first two movies + BD Box which I think we can treat as nice maximum benchmark. Of course, if third movie manages to go past that, I would be overjoyed. Movies tend to sell a lot more than the tv series, so its not that much of a stretch. Recap movies excluded, ofcourse. |
kuuderes_shadow said: Indeed, I have done a similar exercise earlier today and got similar numbers as you did. The winners continued to stay up, even by increasing the sales projection or avoiding noticeable fall. This includes, Aoki Hagane, Non Non Biyori, Machine Doll and Yomamushi Pedal. On the other hand, the 4 that I tip as most likely to be TOP FOUR BESTSELLERS, only KuroBas2 does not have projection drop by more than 500. Kill la Kill managed to "just" lose 600 but LB Refrain and IS2 lost >1000, which is really significant (particularly considering it happens in so short time)Even in the few days since symbv posted his report, there's been some fairly significant changes. Here's the series above 3k: As things stand now, only 3 series are above #100 in Amazon BD/DVD sales ranking (Aoki Hagane, IS2, and Non Non Biyori) which clearly does not bode well to the sales projection. The downward movement of the projection is a reflection of the extended period of the titles staying at ranking lower than before. kuuderes_shadow said: There are more titles that Amazon offers its own "Amazon edition" this cour. Besides Aoki Hagane, Kyoukai no Kanata, Tokyo Ravens and agi no Asukara all have Amazon edition for the BD and the DVD.Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio 6376 + 726 = 7102 (2 different versions?) up about 600 kuuderes_shadow said: This is just StB settling to a stable ranking. I thought it would settle at a higher ranking which is why I predicted it would end at around 6k in projection but it seems it was a bit optimistic, though I have a feeling that a new episode with renewed Yukina power may inject some needed vigor to its sales ranking.Strike the Blood 5418 down about 2100 GarLogan78 said: Because it is not captivating enough for them? Remember buying anime BD/DVD is no small expense. So just getting people to think the show is good is not enough, it must be able to get the consumers to have strong attachment to the show and thus buy it. And I don't think this is what happens to Golden Time. As I said before, a show like Golden Time, with adults and their environment at main stage, will have some inherent disadvantage in terms of grabbing audience (and by extension buyers). The character design does not get high marks from LN fans and the usual anime watchers. The theme of occult at the beginning is not popular and perhaps sets the wrong tone (and expectation) to the audience. At the moment, it is just one of the many shows that got some talks in the forums and blogs in Japan but excitement is not much there (which is not the case for the shows at the top tier of sales projection like IS2, Kill la Kill, Aoki Hagane, or Strike the Blood). Why do people not want to buy Golden Time? Newhopes said: Why not let go of the grunge and remember the adage "one's garbage is another's treasure"? Always depressing to see garbage like IS2 sell so much. |
symbvNov 8, 2013 9:50 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| I found it quite funny that both Outbreak Company and IS2 had "haite nai" (is she or isn't she?) jokes/ lessons in the past couple of weeks. One is going to be the top seller of the season and the other one will be lucky to sell a tenth as much... in one she really wasn't... and it will be the top seller so truly going nopan is obviously the way to go for harem anime sales. I am kidding in case that needs to be stated... One is IS and the other one isn't is the real difference. |
| Seriously? Infinite Stratos S2 got 18000 in sales? Wow... |
| "Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys |
| Kyoukai no Kanata is in the top 100 with all 7 volumes. Told you people lol. Kyoani fanbase to the rescue yet again. |
Kaioshin_Sama said: Where is top 100? It only went to 250 or so.Kyoukai no Kanata is in the top 100. Told you people lol. Kyoani fanbase to the rescue yet again. 【2013年 11月 08日 22時(金)】 ***,495位 【2013年 11月 08日 23時(金)】 ***,541位 【2013年 11月 09日 00時(土)】 ***,485位 【2013年 11月 09日 01時(土)】 ***,256位 【2013年 11月 09日 02時(土)】 ***,254位 No KyoAni fanbase here no. As I said, if the "pandering" episode is considered done well, the new episode boost will kick in, and for this episode, it is generally considered done very well, so if it is having a boost stronger than previous episodes it is not something too surprising. But does it mean it will stay to become a "turn-around"? I am not sure. rederoin said: I guess perhaps he was using the BD->Anime ranking but that is showing a more limited picture of the reality compared to the all-genre DVD/BD ranking Stalker uses. Kaioshin_Sama said: Kyoukai no Kanata is in the top 100 with all 7 volumes. Told you people lol. Kyoani fanbase to the rescue yet again. What are you talking about? Volume 1 is ranked at 250#~ |
symbvNov 8, 2013 10:29 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
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