Shinsekai yori Episode 25 Discussion

zulli2 said:
I wonder if the villagers were killing kids without Cantus because they were afraid that death feedback wouldn’t be activated or just that non Cantus users could some day dominate over the „gods”?

llefvoid said:
Sorry guys, but I can't quite see where's this happy or even bittersweet ending people talk about.

makouz789 said:
Oh shit. It ended as a happy end, i thought everyone would die, the way to kill the child was very unexpected, for me at least.
I am really impressed by this anime. I never thought about watching as the first episodes were boring as fuck. But i watched this now and this has a solid spot at my favorites, an awesome ride Shinsekai Yori is.

10/10.

VioLink said:
Most underrated anime this year. Great freaking story I loved the suspenseful parts.

Spirai said:
I have two questions. But first, some background info to set them up: Satoru in this last episode explained how queerats are actually related to humans by telling Saki he looked at their number of chromosomes and DNA. Satoru couldn't just do this during his 'free time' without having a lab and permission from the council. That means he worked there (I forgot the name of it) and he had been analyzing this stuff from the start. So....

1.) That means Satoru could have known the bones were really Mamoru and Maria's. Why didnt' he tell Saki?

2.) When Satoru already knew about the queerats being like humans before the battle with the 'fiend', why didn't he receive death feedback from killing all those queerats? (And also for attempting to kill the 'fiend' which was clearly human?)

Nequam said:
Now that I think about it, there's still one big plothole.

If scientists (with PK genes) had the ability to implement genes that inhibit one's gland upon the killing of one's imprinted species and the ability to morph humans into moles, why didn't they just remove PK genes from all subsequent generations?

Vyudali said:
It died due to death feedback. I'm assuming they just buried the corpse somewhere.

Nequam said:
Those who are weak-hearted are correlated with producing children that are Karma Demons.

Nequam said:
But I don't recall the kids ever not having Cantus, just that they were filtered. (Saki being the last one from the academy)

Nequam said:
PK has to be reduced down to X genes.
Mamoru/Maria are PK users.
Their child turn out to be PK users.
Every child in this village of PK users are PK users
The ones who are unstable are filtered out.
So if they can remove a set of genes such as from moles, put them into humans and make them genetically viable (that is capable of reproducing..not sure why).
And that they could make genes that are even complicated enough to release certain horomones, interact in a certain way in the human body and cause death purely based on conditional stimulus...
It would be hard to see how they could not remove such PK genes though. This is all from the standpoint of DNA manipulation/RNA manipulation, and the mechanisms needed to have the body respond to X stimulus with Y condition which is extremely complicated and hard to do. Mastering that means you can find out any set of genes that are responsible for a certain condition such as PK inheritability...

Nequam said:

Anyhow, I still agree I would take it to face value in terms of accepting the world as it is as a hypothetical one.

symbv said:
Your ranting is as valid reaction and it is the greatness of the novel. It challenges you and you may end up taking side this way or another. As much as I disagree (some of them strongly) with some of your points, unlike last time I think here the points are more subjective preference and personal choices. So I respect your views, even though I think your tone is way too harsh towards cantus human and Saki (as you seem to want only a radical and revolutionary leader for the cantus human but clearly this is not what Tomiko looked for). But to each his own I guess.

symbv said:
Remember Saki vaguely recalled that there were actually other kids from the elementary school who did not make it to the secondary school? Those were kids who did not display Cantus and the implication is that they were disposed of.

llefvoid said:
Well, I suppose the problem is that I don't see where the reverence for dear Tomiko-sama comes from. She was around for over 250 years, overseeing a society that can do no better than kill countless of its children in order to survive, all the while enslaving other species just because they can. To me that is a failed ruling time and, as such, to me it does not seem that following with her wish for a continuity successor is not good. It could have been that she recognised her failure and opted to leave her position to someone capable of delivering change, but she didn't. She absolutely the other way around and I think that not only she chose someone who would maintain the status quo, she chose someone who was _unable_ to change the status quo. She didn't choose a strong leader that would make the village thrive, she chose a weak one that would leave the rules untouched.

symbv said:
Where does this come from?

dankickyou said:

Being Mamoru is suffering...

The logic of the world is not always perfect either. The idea that someone couldn't sacrifice themselves to kill someone is still ill-explained when. apparently,
inadvertently killing someone will still kill you (As illustrated in this episode). I don't follow the logic here, and it makes death feedback feel a little bit too convenient of a
tool at times.

stanklem28 said:
So they still have to kill children who are potential fiends or karma demons. Nice...

I don't see a change for the "human" society. The only change that this anime brought at the end is the relationship between "humans" and the rat people.

Yet, Saki speaks of her child as an object of hope. What if that kid turns demonic? Still gotta cap him/her with a cat.

symbv said:
1) Don't forget we are talking about two different times here. The DNA test was done years before the war and the chromosome test Satoru did was performed after the war. Responsibility changed after the war and Satoru may have got more authority and access clearance after the war with so many people dead. It does not seem that Satoru was involved in the DNA testing for the bones.

2) Death feedback is not whether the queerats are human like in their DNA but whether your mind perceives the victim you killed is one of your kind. Clearly for Satoru and other human, queerats do not register as one of their (human) kind.

Not sure what you mean by your other question "And also for attempting to kill the 'fiend' which was clearly human?" though.

Mikuo_Chan said:
Now just hold on for one second. Did anyone else notice that they were calling the "fiend" she in this episode when they always called it a he before? DAMN SUBTITLES why cant they be consistent for once in my life!!! I STILL say that the child was a boy, it was a boy in the novels and thats the end of it as far as I am concerned.

An inconsistency you will notice in this episode is that the Fiend is now referred to as a girl (the Fiend was male in the novels). We’ll of course fix the previous episodes accordingly for the batch.

Nequam said:


Also another valid criticism.

AirStyles said:


What have you been watching lately?

LordLagann said:

On the topic, probably best series of its season. Even set pacing, thrilling story progression, and just everything was eloquently done. This is exactly what good quality Anime is about.

Mikuo_Chan said:

UTW says in their site :
]An inconsistency you will notice in this episode is that the Fiend is now referred to as a girl (the Fiend was male in the novels). We’ll of course fix the previous episodes accordingly for the batch.

Posse said:


UTW says in their site :

Yangbo said:
I had high hopes for this anime, I even thought it would be a masterpiece. Honestly what ruined it for me was the the inconsistencies of the death feedback and the rationale of the village committee. All and all I'll give this a 7.5/10 #2 behind Psycho Pass.

Nequam said:
Then there wouldn't be any reason to remove said kids, since they all inherited death feedback in this subgroup population. The only explanation I came up with, is that they're outcasts. But that isn't really a strong one.

Nequam said:
Kutegawa Izumi, altering humans on genetic level 12:55-13:05 episode 12; children have an greater chance of becoming karmonic demons.

LordLagann said:
Not really, I'd say he took the whole Death Feedback system too literally as if it was a computer program. It's more of a mentally imprinted taboo during childhood and is also resonance throughout society that one should never harm another human being. The Fiend went on uncontested because he/she (whatever you prefer) literally did not kill "its own people". Satoru make this very clear when he states, "They aren't humans after all", which shows Death Feedback isn't a physical attribute but a mental one.

Spirai said:
Sorry, I should've been more specific. I don't know if I'm mixing up when the events happened or not, but Saki told Satoru she thought the 'fiend' was human before he tried to kill it with the pendant, right? So wouldn't that affect his death feedback? Or maybe I'm just really not getting the rules about death feedback...Someone seriously needs to write a whole section dedicated to it.

Mikuo_Chan said:
What does that mean? Are they saying the fiend is a girl? because thats kind of stupid. Apparently they don't refer to it's gender at all in Japanese script. I don't understand why people feel the need to label it a girl when it was meant to be a boy A BOY!!!!

kondee said:
I'm a little confused about the gender of the fiend though...the subs wasn't consistent about it but I guess the fiend is female after all. Looking at how the fiend looks, it makes a lot more sense.

vansonbee said:
1) What the moral of the series?

symbv said:
In this episode Saki explicitly said if only Maria's child could have born inside the village, SHE would have been a really adorable and lovely LITTLE GIRL 少女(shoujo).
So I am sorry you are disappointed, but you can blame the subtitle people for making an unenforced error and calling the gender of the kid wrong in previous episodes. In short, Japanese fans 1; English subtitle workers 0

Zee530 said:
Most shows make an open ended conclusion with the hopes of making a 2nd season or make a very stupid and nonsensical one.

symbv said:
Well, it all depends on how far the adaptation goes with regard to the source material, right? If the adaptation is going to adapt till the end of the source material, you should be able to see a proper conclusion, unless the end in the source material is open-ended. The way I see, in this season, Zetsuen no Tempest should have an actual conclusion, as are Robotic;Notes, because both, like Shinsekai Yori, adapts till the end of the source material. All the other adaptation does not go till the end of the source material, so even an ending in the anime may not look like a clear conclusion, and I think this really can't be helped.

As for original anime, I would not be surprised if they leave with a few things that make it ready for a 2nd season even though they wrap up the story properly. For example, I would say Psycho-Pass has an actual conclusion, but if they want there are enough bits and pieces for them to go for a 2nd season.

Zee530 said:
Psycho-pass's ending hinted at a 2nd season, which is just the studio telling the producers "of you're interested in milking this, we're all up for it", R;N's ending falls in the nonsensical department.

Zee530 said:
I'm not saying most shows don't conclude well, it's just very rare to see it so perfectly done and answering so many questions that might inevitably come up from the viewers.

Nequam said:
If scientists (with PK genes) had the ability to implement genes that inhibit one's gland upon the killing of one's imprinted species and the ability to morph humans into moles, why didn't they just remove PK genes from all subsequent generations?