What is the most intelligent anime you've seen?

abrams said:


To counterpoint, to understand a mathematical theory is not as hard as to create one. And yes some level of intelligence is required for both, but neither is strictly a measure of it.

I would see the source of our disagreement in whether something simply requires intelligence (at any level) or whether it is a measure of it (requires a certain, above average level of it). Hence my repeated use of highly, extraordinarily. If you just say a show is intelligent than that's strictly nonsense, a show is not even sentient. So some interpretation is in order.

Language is arbitrary, and it is not a sign of intelligence. Computers operate using languages of various levels. It is communication in absence of language that is the sign of intelligence. The way that you can create a language of your own, perhaps when you were abroad and didn't speak their language, perhaps using gesticulation. Even face expressions can convey anger, joy etc, and are a form of communication. It's how you use them to express complex ideas that count's, not the words themselves.



I very well mean more or less sophisticated, and that's a completely different thing. But I'd agree that it's at least as important. Still, just because a show is sophisticated doesn't automatically mean that the author is highly intelligent. He could be just average in that regard, but could posses other talents, and is certainly sophisticated himself (assuming absence of plagiarism).

It's even more evident when it comes to complexity that isn't even necessarily a sign of sophistication. You want to say that you never encountered a show that had a lot of "crap" going on, a lot of subplots, new characters being introduced, a lot of things left unsaid, but that you'd nevertheless describe as unsophisticated (or dumb if you really must use that term)?

And no need to apologize, let bygones be bygones. I'm sure it was just a misunderstanding.

Ineptia said:

Body language. I still disagree with you on sophistication and intelligence but whatever, for the sake of everyone's sanity.
I still call anime "intelligent" by this list.
A solid story structure.
Ideas are effectively communicated through dialogue, symbols or action.
The characters leave an impression on the audience or express something that is greater than themselves.
It does not doubt the intelligence of the viewer.
The premise or theme remains coherent throughout the entire duration.

abrams said:


And a talented author of average intelligence is incapable of producing such a work?

Anyway, I was simply going by the strict definition of intelligence, and yes, its not a very good word to use out of it's narrow context (which the question posed by this thread does). As it's posed, the question is meaningless. Even, interpreting the question as shows which are an indication of a higher than average intelligence of the author and/or audience, we still have a problem of it not being exactly the popular interpretation in the thread. Simply does not fit (and is farthest from) the data or reasons stated.

A show being sophisticated is much more common then a show being a a proof of extraordinary intelligence, that's why I prefer to use it. But even then a lot of the mentioned shows don't fit the description. I guess popular interpretation of the question is all-together different, and judging by the shows mentioned it can be either most complicated/rich in content, most entertaining/enjoyable, or best executed/artistic.

Another misunderstanding between us was the word original, which I used as in "originated by you", as opposed to derived. Not as in new, never seen before by anyone. If you reinvent the wheel, while not being aware of the wheel, then by all means it's original thinking. Despite someone, say on the other side of the world, having thought of it first.

Ineptia said:

I still call anime "intelligent" by this list.
A solid story structure.
Ideas are effectively communicated through dialogue, symbols or action.
The characters leave an impression on the audience or express something that is greater than themselves.
It does not doubt the intelligence of the viewer.
The premise or theme remains coherent throughout the entire duration.

Ineptia said:

I won't contest whatever else you said, I will just answer the question.
A very talented author of low intelligence would not be able to produce such a work. A somewhat talented author with average or high intelligence could produce such a work. A very talented author with high intelligence would create a masterpiece. I chose technical skills to be fair.

abrams said:
Sometimes, no intelligence is required at all, as would be the case of Watson winning Jeopardy. What is worse about symbolism is that it is always a simplification (of what it actually means), and as such easy to understand (given the knowledge ofc)and innately appealing to us humans. It is to our detriment when simpleminded people start thinking in terms of symbols for convenience sake.

abrams said:
It is necessary to make a clear distinction between a well constructed and smart, or entertaining for that matter. Skillful storytelling and complexity have more to do with artistic talent and knowledge, and are not sings of authors extraordinary intelligence. If the show was witty then perhaps, but witty =/= funny (and we'd probably have an argument about that instead). And besides wit has to be spontaneous and original to be a sign of intelligence.

abrams said:
Language is arbitrary, and it is not a sign of intelligence. Computers operate using languages of various levels. It is communication in absence of language that is the sign of intelligence. The way that you can create a language of your own, perhaps when you were abroad and didn't speak their language, perhaps using gesticulation. Even face expressions can convey anger, joy etc, and are a form of communication. It's how you use them to express complex ideas that count's, not the words themselves.

abrams said:
As enjoyable as a good argument is, I'm starting to feel (and I've stated this before), like it's ultimately pointless, as what author of the thread meant by the question was most likely one of those (mis)interpretations of the word intelligent. So when people are simply stating the shows for no other reason that they found them entertaining or complicated, they might just be giving him what he wanted. And that would make our discussion, unintentional trolling I'm afraid.

Ineptia said:
Someone say Death Note, quick!

renders said:
Out of curiosity has anyone posting in this thread seen Gallery Fake?

Ineptia said:

I've never gotten around to it. Is it good?

Andomarn said:
Em... Detective Conan?

Combustious said:
Perhaps Detective Conan.
Think about it, the creator has to create a new case every few episodes and the mysteries aren't normal or obvious(unless it's supposed to be that way)

Pandarenboy said:

Naruto could actually be more intelligent. The mystery of "who is Tobi?' was the most discussed identity ever...

Lindle said:
Sort of surprises me that every single post in this isn't LotGH.

So, erm... LotGH.

It is perhaps the most profound take on the natures of history, mankind, and war, that fiction has ever offered.

Ahri said:


Older art stlye doesn't appeal to me much unless I've already watched and completed the series. I don't know it just makes me feel weird.

FastWheels said:
Legend of The Galactic Heroes.

rkell48 said:

pizz off

BloodRequiem said:
Thought provoking does not mean intelligent.

rkell48 said:

pizz off