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Dangerr said: That's certainly a possible outcome. The true capability and purpose of the Third Engine isn't fully explained outside of being an engine that allows the IFO to use trapar as energy, but it most certainly uses Quartz as a power source. And since Fleur activated the Third Engine, it may have a result on how she was affected in the new universe....I wanted to point out that Fleur may most likely remember Ao; her third engine was activated at the time he went through the light, and changed their universe - due to her synchronization with the quartz in her IFO, her memories, much like Ao, will have been mostly or completely unaffected by the third and final blast of the quartz cannon due to the beacon-effect it has on the mind; hence, the relation to the "anthropic principal". In your case, if I understand it correctly, the basis of who and what gets altered by the Quartz Gun is a result of being synchronized with the Quartz (i.e. activating the Third Engine/Quartz for Fleur) at the time of firing. That means that Fleur would share Ao's application of the anthropic principle, that is, by virtue of activating the Quartz at the same time. Earlier, I proposed that reality or the perceived universe changes according to the will of the one who fires the gun. So in my case, everyone except for Ao will have had their memories altered as dictated by the new past. Renton and Eureka "jumped" planes with Ao so they obviously would not be affected, but everyone else in that universe would be affected. Hence, the anthropic principle would only be applicable to Ao and not to Fleur. I suppose you could argue both ways. The way I see it, Ao may exist in the memory of the people of this new universe, for Fleur as well, though in a different way; he may not as well, but we'll never know for sure. A typical Bones ending. : / Phaetons_Folly said: I heard a rumor that there may be a 2nd OVA, though that would be long after the release of the final Blu-ray of the series. That being said, I wouldn't advise place any bets on it until we get actual confirmation. Even if there was another OVA, however, there's no guarantee that it would be an epilogue episode; though, I'm sure everyone is practically screaming for one, especially with the original cast of Eureka Seven. It would more than likely be just like Jungfrau no Hanabana-tachi, a fan-service episode.I would still love to see another series come out of the Eureka 7 universe, but I wonder if they’ll do that after AO. |
Kjeldoran109Dec 18, 2012 6:35 AM
Kjeldoran said: I heard a rumor that there may be a 2nd OVA, though that would be long after the release of the final Blu-ray of the series. That being said, I wouldn't advise place any bets on it until we get actual confirmation. Even if there was another OVA, however, there's no guarantee that it would be an epilogue episode; though, I'm sure everyone is practically screaming for one, especially with the original cast of Eureka Seven. It would more than likely be just like Jungfrau no Hanabana-tachi, a fan-service episode. On Ao's official Facebook page, a few weeks ago, the staff gave the poll of "What would you like to see in the next franchise installment?" Choices: "Ao Movie" "Ao Season 2" "Other/New title" The poll has closed since then, but Ao S2 won out big time. Of course, only BD and Merch sales will be able to justify another season in the immediate future, but the important thing is, it at least goes to show that they're thinking about doing more with the franchise. Personally, I'm down for another ride with Ao, but they need a different writer, and they also need to link PoP's universe in a greater, more persistent fashion; Ao's narrative suffered from the lack of this (let's also not forget the pacing issues, and unnecessary padding). As for the OVA, we just know there'll be a "bonus" in the last BD volume; this may or may not be it. Of course, I think everyone would be happy if it was. |
DangerrDec 18, 2012 3:32 AM
Dangerr said: Personally, I'm down for another ride with Ao, but they need a different writer, and they also need to link PoP's universe in a greater, more persistent fashion; Ao's narrative suffered from the lack of this (let's also not forget the pacing issues, and unnecessary padding). As for the OVA, we just know there'll be a "bonus" in the last BD volume; this may or may not be it. Of course, I think everyone would be happy if it was. For the most part, I find Aikawa Shou's scripts interesting (Un-Go, for instance), and AO is no exception; though, part of it has to do with my interest in political commentary. In the end, as much as I find his writing stimulating, he often leaves more plot holes as a result of spotty writing and various issues such as pacing rather than as a result of reasoning along the lines of "I gave you the clues in the story, figure out the rest." That being said, if there was a decision to make a sequel to AO, then I, too, would like to see another script writer. It goes without saying that Dai Sato would be ideal, but I couldn't see him working on it on principle. He was pretty furious about the E7 movie; no surprise there because of how it turned out. I suppose a sequel would work towards a nice, happy ending where Ao and his parents could live together but without anyone having to be sacrificed? It would be interesting to see how it would play out. Personally, I'm satisfied with AO's ending. It showed the strength of Ao's character and I thought it adequately answered the other themes of the series as well as those carried over from PoP:E7. Something like an special epilogue would be ideal, but overall I can accept AO for what it is. Of course, if it were to happen, I would always be interested in more from the Eureka Seven franchise. Also, I forgot to add in my previous post: as for my explanation of Fleur's Third Engine activating at the end, I'd say that it has to do more with showing the strong familial bond that she shares with Ao rather than having to do with the past/universe changing aspect of the Quartz itself and synchronizing with Ao. After all, Quartz responds to strong emotions, so I think that the engine activating is the proof of her feelings. |
Kjeldoran109Dec 18, 2012 7:54 AM
Kjeldoran said: Dangerr said: Personally, I'm down for another ride with Ao, but they need a different writer, and they also need to link PoP's universe in a greater, more persistent fashion; Ao's narrative suffered from the lack of this (let's also not forget the pacing issues, and unnecessary padding). As for the OVA, we just know there'll be a "bonus" in the last BD volume; this may or may not be it. Of course, I think everyone would be happy if it was. For the most part, I find Aikawa Shou's scripts interesting (Un-Go, for instance), and AO is no exception; though, part of it has to do with my interest in political commentary. In the end, as much as I find his writing stimulating, he often leaves more plot holes as a result of spotty writing and various issues such as pacing rather than as a result of reasoning along the lines of "I gave you the clues in the story, figure out the rest." That being said, if there was a decision to make a sequel to AO, then I, too, would like to see another script writer. It goes without saying that Dai Sato would be ideal, but I couldn't see him working on it on principle. He was pretty furious about the E7 movie; no surprise there because of how it turned out. I suppose a sequel would work towards a nice, happy ending where Ao and his parents could live together but without anyone having to be sacrificed? It would be interesting to see how it would play out. Personally, I'm satisfied with AO's ending. It showed the strength of Ao's character and I thought it adequately answered the other themes of the series as well as those carried over from PoP:E7. Something like an special epilogue would be ideal, but overall I can accept AO for what it is. Of course, if it were to happen, I would always be interested in more from the Eureka Seven franchise. Also, I forgot to add in my previous post: as for my explanation of Fleur's Third Engine activating at the end, I'd say that it has to do more with showing the strong familial bond that she shares with Ao rather than having to do with the past/universe changing aspect of the Quartz itself and synchronizing with Ao. After all, Quartz responds to strong emotions, so I think that the engine activating is the proof of her feelings. I don't think Aikawa did everything badly; I appreciated and understood the socio-political implications of the story. In terms of the composition though, the series suffered from very uneven pacing (especially after the mid-series encounter with Eureka), and utilized some of his broader themes in either underwhelming or inexplicable ways. Worst of all, though, was the quality of characterization. Members of team Pied Piper I would say was passable, and -maybe- Gazelle's crew, but so much of the secondary cast had barely any time to develop into anything more than (for the most part) flat characters serving the main characters' story-lines. The large reason I think the series became messy was due to the juggling of these plot-elements: * The corporate-political and PR tensions between Gen. Bleu, the U.N., U.S., Japan, and Okinawa. (Background conflict) * A super-powered terrorist hell-bent on changing reality. (Antagonist motive) * Ao's quest to find his mother. (Protagonist motive) * Timeline shenanigans involving the conflict between Secrets and the Scub Coral. (Secondary Antagonist motive) * Liberation vs. Subjugation of the Scub Coral. (Background conflict / Antagonist motive) * Renton and Eureka's consequences and legacy (Antagonist motive) Okay. Those are the six plot-points of meta-conflicts that encompass the series, and any two or three of these could have easily fulfilled the narrative of a 24-episode title as far as main conflict is concerned. This is also barring character development and general exposition; to iterate, these are the factors which drive the series' plot forward. While I appreciate the ambition of trying to take these all on, is such a task even realistic with a 24-episode cap? In the end, the whole Okinawan independence plot-point, felt superficial and shoehorned in, while the dynamic between Naru and Ao (while I understood it) ultimately didn't amount to much of anything. I guess what I'm trying to get at, is that with most of these elements, it only felt like it delivered half-way; most of it wasn't able to go all-in with these story elements, and consequently, fell short of being truly captivating. Thematically, I liked much of where the story was going with Naru; while Ao, the direct spawn of a part-Coralian heritage always strided towards what it means to be human, Naru was becoming ever-more alien in her connection to the Scub Coral; a sort of reverse-Eureka, if you will. In the end, they seemed to have just marginalized her importance as a mere obstacle toward's Ao's goal, and giving him a reason to fight against his dad's wishes to destroy that dimension's Scub Coral. I just felt this could have gone a lot further, but relatively speaking, it fell flat. The same largely goes for Truth; being someone who was so inordinately powerful in contrast to the other forces in the series, his flamboyance and lack of charisma gave a bad first impression on the character that never truly went away. Perhaps the worst part, however, was the realization that his goals were never very concrete; it turns out that he never truly knew what he was until later on, and until the very end, what he was fighting to achieve. He had realized that the world was erroneous before then, but failed to substantiate his motives till way later, which kind of cheapened his character even further. Ironically, the plot-point that was only addressed in several episodes was the most satisfying, and it benefited largely from our knowledge of the previous series; this of course being about Renton and Eureka's struggle to have a child. I also enjoyed the ending and its boldness; it had a sense of pathos that the rest of the series was mostly lacking, and that's because it's building upon an advanced story-arc that began all the way since the beginning of the first series. TL;DR, I think there were too many big points of conflict trying to be addressed, and served to dampen the impact of most of these plot-threads. As for Fleur, indeed it had to do with her affection; Quartz resonates through emotions, and that's the implicit method by which one "syncs" with it. Honestly, quartz seems to be extremely similar to that of a compac drive in the way it functions as a tool to synchronize with machines, though the huge difference is its energy-output and temporal implications. |
DangerrDec 18, 2012 10:53 PM
Dangerr said: that is awesome news |
Dangerr said: Aikawa often errs on the side of being too over-ambitious with his scripts. You could say that in his ambition, coupled with his narrative style, lies his hubris; he bites off more than he can chew. His addressed themes, the politics (his penchant I would say), the plot/action (including time travel/parallel universe theory) are all complex in and of themselves. But when you add the need to develop the characters, the scale tipped over to one side and the whole thing became out of joint. It is exactly as you say, there were simply too many narrative devices at play, and this resulted in cheapening the impact of the story, the characters, and the overall presentation. Had it been something of a 39 episode series, it could have done well enough to balance out the overall presentation, that is, addressing all the themes/plot devices as well as characterization in an adequate way (50 episodes, a la PoP:E7, would have been too much). AO suffered many of the same pitfalls of Aikawa's recent script, Un-Go. It was ambitious in its plot/themes, politics (it had an incredibly fascinating commentary on post-war Japanese conservative politics), and so on, but the characterization was pitiful; everyone felt like cardboard cut-outs, not surprising since there were only 11 episodes. It felt rushed and inadequate, not too different from AO. I felt that many of AO's supporting cast were one-dimensional in that they were simply there to fulfill the role of highlighting one of AO's many themes. Ivica and Rebecka are an example of this. Other than the mantra of "protecting the children," their only form development came from the commentary on the atrocities of war and the manipulations of geopolitical powers. Gazelle and Co., aside from acting like goofballs, had their purpose as well. They were in between the boundaries of being kids and being full adults, in that unlike kids they could decide things on their own and unlike their parents who had nothing but regrets and found others to blame. In the end though, most of the supporting cast were forgettable and were made irrelevant. I was always personally interested in Chief Hannah as a character, but alas... Truth and Naru are often touted as being underdeveloped, and while I agree to a certain extent, I feel that they served their purpose within the larger framework of the story. Regarding Naru, you can see more into the dynamics of her relationship with Ao once you stop looking through the prism of love and as a romantic interest. Naru was always described as a girl with special Yuta powers, which is a reference to Okinawan folklore wherein certain maidens have the powers of prediction/foresight. She always knew that Ao was special, and this is the dynamic that drove their relationship. She really wanted to be Ao's equal, and the means that she thought she could do that was through symbiosis with the Scub Coral. Of course, her siding with the Scub Coral forced her into an antagonistic position and made her into somewhat of a tragic character, but it was always more of the desire to be able to "fly in the same sky" as Ao. That Ao can't see this and views his relationship with her somewhat differently (she doesn't want to be protected by him, but to stand alongside him as an equal) is what drives the wedge between them, as well as her not being able to face the reality of the Scub Coral/Coral-carriers/etc. As for Truth, it's important to understand that he's part of a larger sub-plot/theme of the story: the need to have an "antagonist." This is why I see you're classification and identification of antagonistic and protagonist motives to be somewhat problematic. Now, I do admit that Truth's early characterization was a mistake; he was far too flamboyant and this had an adverse effect on his characterization. His "development" was late in the game too, but I think this was for a legitimate reason. Truth is the ultimate representative of the theme of having an 'enemy;' in other words, he is more a tragic anti-hero than an antagonist, and this is what they wanted to highlight. Whether it was the Scubs or the Secrets or Truth as the "ultimate villain," there always had to be an 'enemy.' Working against one of the other sides would "solve" the problem, but this only leads to, in Gramps Fukai's words, "drawing lines" between people. People inherently look for an enemy, when the reality is that people simply have different motives, whether for good or bad reasons, and they clash; there really is no clear 'villain' in AO, only groups of people working for their own motives, in which they feel legitimized. Ao questions this trap in his firm belief of, "Who's there to decide that?!" This serves to highlight Truth as a tragic figure. He was, after all, a Tabula rasa due to the confusion of being a Secret that merged with the Scub Coral. Johansson simply gave him this notion of a "single truth" which only served to force him into that antagonistic position; he's very similar to Naru in this regard. Of course, the ultimate irony is that the "truth" he sought was that he is an archetype. The point of my elaboration of Truth and Naru is that, while yes, they were underdeveloped as characters and this had the effect of marginalizing their importance, Aikawa succeeded in his goals. This is my personal bias, but I think that Aikawa only likes to provide character development only insofar as it is necessary to address his themes. This certainly doesn't magic away the problems of the narrative flow, but I think it partially accounts for the end result. I think that the biggest disappointment in character development department was Renton, likely as a result of little screen-time. Nothing of Renton in AO reminds me of the Renton I knew from PoP:E7 (aside from his grin when Eureka told him that Ao was more forward in his feelings than he). He seemed too similar to Holland and even fell into the same characterization pitfalls as Holland did: being brash, impulsive, destructive, I could go on. The difference in characterization was just too jarring for me. I know that this was probably done with the intention as a reference to the parent series (even the same voice actor as Holland, Fujiwara Keiji), but I really didn't buy it. And yes, strong emotions and the resonating with Quartz, "syncing," are one and the same. I was just wanting to draw a contrast from your theory wherein Fleur will likely be able to remember Ao as a result of syncing at the same time with Ao (anthropic principle) while I believe that showing her syncing with the Quartz was only done as a plot device to show how strongly she felt about Ao; I don't think she will be able to apply the anthropic principle, only Ao will dictate the end result. I wasn't sure that I clarified that, and maybe I just ended up convoluting it even further, in which case I apologize. On another note, I never provide TL;DR summaries out of principle; I force everyone to read every word or not at all. ; P |
Kjeldoran109Dec 21, 2012 6:19 PM
Linkark07 said: Eureka Seven: Psalms of the Planets never had a sequel. That seems right. Yup... Renton didn't feel right in that role... ._. And even though I read a bit more about it just now, I still don't get a few parts about the time travel... What's especially bothering me is in what relation Ao's time line is to Renton and Eureka's... If there were such problems in their time line, couldn't they have just stayed in Ao's? And this parallel world concept makes it hard to find out the ages of the characters. Renton looks (and sounds) too old... xD Maybe I'll read the manga sometime. |
Face_Faith said: Linkark07 said: Eureka Seven: Psalms of the Planets never had a sequel. That seems right. Yup... dont be one of those people... |
Brigandi said: Face_Faith said: Linkark07 said: Eureka Seven: Psalms of the Planets never had a sequel. That seems right. Yup... dont be one of those people... There's a lot of em', which is a shame; the series certainly isn't great, but it's very underrated. With a proper sequel and better writing, it could complement AO's existence immensely, giving some more substance to Aikawa's overambitious strides. Kjeldoran said: I actually never questioned Truth's importance and role in the plot; conversely, I think his presence was needed for the story to work at all. Really, my only irk was the way he was portrayed; he didn't exude the menace that was implicit with his powers and goals, which I feel was a waste, again, on the character aspect of the story. He and Naru definitely fulfilled their purpose to the plot; it's just, again, that they weren't as compelling characters as they should have been. I'll agree though, with the way things came together, I was more willing to look past these shortcomings. Indeed, I think the series' various strengths counteract the narrative weaknesses enough that I was able to derive considerable more enjoyment than many of the people here were able to. As for Renton, I actually liked his portrayal; someone who's had to live through hardships and loss since his upbeat ending in PoP, which has molded him into someone more hardened and in-tune with the world. I think a large part of the ending was to illustrate the contrast between Renton and Ao. Ao, despite his differences in personality, is very idealistic and principled like his father was at his age. Renton, conversely, while still having the best intentions at heart, has developed to be more pragmatic and realistic about the reality around him, compromising the attribute which helped him save Eureka and his world. This illustrates the strength and purity of youth; something Ao's father had lost, which helped enable Ao to do something his father would never have considered (And you can't really blame the guy). Specifically regarding his pitfalls, he was definitely destructive. Brash and impulsive on the other hand, I'm inclined to disagree; given his recent history, It seemed he came to a logical conclusion that must have been deeply thought-out; I highly doubt deciding to side against the Scub Coral of that dimension was an easy thing for him to do. What I could definitely see unchanged in Renton was his single-mindedness to protect his family, even if he was taking it to the logical extreme with Ao; I could totally see Renton doing what he did for his son, though I believe humanity going extinct due to scub bursts was the rational tipping-point in that decision. I don't know, I personally just thought nothing much was out-of-place with his character, other than the fact, I guess, that he was so quick to leave Ao in the dust to accomplish what he been after all that time; you'd think he would want to spend a bit more time with his only son that he'd gone through nearly absurd lengths to protect, though I'm guessing this was largely due to time-constraints. |
DangerrDec 22, 2012 9:32 AM
Dangerr said: I actually never questioned Truth's importance and role in the plot; conversely, I think his presence was needed for the story to work at all. Really, my only irk was the way he was portrayed; he didn't exude the menace that was implicit with his powers and goals, which I feel was a waste, again, on the character aspect of the story. He and Naru definitely fulfilled their purpose to the plot; it's just, again, that they weren't as compelling characters as they should have been. I'll agree though, with the way things came together, I was more willing to look past these shortcomings. Indeed, I think the series' various strengths counteract the narrative weaknesses enough that I was able to derive considerable more enjoyment than many of the people here were able to. As for Renton, I actually liked his portrayal; someone who's had to live through hardships and loss since his upbeat ending in PoP, which has molded him into someone more hardened and in-tune with the world. I think a large part of the ending was to illustrate the contrast between Renton and Ao. Ao, despite his differences in personality, is very idealistic and principled like his father was at his age. Renton, conversely, while still having the best intentions at heart, has developed to be more pragmatic and realistic about the reality around him, compromising the attribute which helped him save Eureka and his world. This illustrates the strength and purity of youth; something Ao's father had lost, which helped enable Ao to do something his father would never have considered (And you can't really blame the guy). Specifically regarding his pitfalls, he was definitely destructive. Brash and impulsive on the other hand, I'm inclined to disagree; given his recent history, It seemed he came to a logical conclusion that must have been deeply thought-out; I highly doubt deciding to side against the Scub Coral of that dimension was an easy thing for him to do. What I could definitely see unchanged in Renton was his single-mindedness to protect his family, even if he was taking it to the logical extreme with Ao; I could totally see Renton doing what he did for his son, though I believe humanity going extinct due to scub bursts was the rational tipping-point in that decision. I don't know, I personally just thought nothing much was out-of-place with his character, other than the fact, I guess, that he was so quick to leave Ao in the dust to accomplish what he been after all that time; you'd think he would want to spend a bit more time with his only son that he'd gone through nearly absurd lengths to protect, though I'm guessing this was largely due to time-constraints. Given the screen time that Renton was allotted, to a certain extent, I just have to accept the idea that his character change is a causative result of the death of his daughter. That he and Eureka were even willing to destroy themselves and others for the sake of Ao is certainly understandable from this prism. It's just that I personally believe that the change of character in Renton is much too forced. Weren't he and Eureka vehemently opposed to killing life? Can we justify Renton's take on Charles's words to "see it through the end" as being willing to selfishly erase his and Eureka's mistakes while possibly destroying themselves and others along the way? It may be a stretch to say so, but it's almost as if this Renton is not too different from Dewey by deciding that erasing the Scub will solve the problem. I think that his daughter's death drove him into a corner and perhaps forced him to only see one viable option to "end it all," the result of an impulsive decision, if you will. Such is my take-away. Of course, the case is probably equally true that their child's death forced them to become pragmatic and destructive; their decision was understandable, sure, but ultimately, was it really the best thing to do with Ao in mind, that is, defying some of their core beliefs from PoP:E7? Maybe I'm just too stubborn to accept it as it is so easily. Again, I chalk up my disconnect with Renton to the little screen time he got. Also, I should retract my absolute statement that I saw no similarities in Renton's characterization past and present. There are some--I won't bother to list them--but I think that the differences far outweighed the similarities, which is why I found Renton's characterization so jarring. While the supporting cast got the short-end of the big stick in terms of character development (the development of the other 'main' cast is debatable), Ao was, by far, the most greatly developed and compelling character; the contrast is way too stark. That Ao is so decisive and frank in his beliefs (not to mention his self-sacrifice) is what makes him such a great character; incidentally, this is also what makes him so difficult to relate to as a character. How many people could make the decision to sacrifice everything they knew and loved for the sake of their parents, to sacrifice himself so that his parents wouldn't have to suffer through any more pain and agony? Well, I suppose he IS his parent's child. |
Kjeldoran109Dec 29, 2012 12:00 PM
chaoslimits said: Also, still don't know what Scub Coral are and where the came from. They just suddenly come out of no where? Assuming you mean the ones in AO, they are part of the Scub Coral that left at the end of the original Eureka Seven to go live in a new world/universe (As Diane/the Nirvash says so to Renton and Eureka). Otherwise, the Scub Coral are assumed to have come from another galaxy, though you'd have to watch PoP:E7 to get more of their context. |
| oh my, this was such a fantastic series! can't believe it! |
| Wouldn't mind an epilogue, just because I wanna see what everyone's up to and whether or not he seriously fucked up the plot of eureka seven (the original). As for the facebook thing where people chose Ao season 2 Ao movie New title Even though season two won the poll I really can't see that happening. I think they'd be pushing their luck to even try and get a third title. even though I would watch it anyway :P, and the most likely would probably be a movie. |
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DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: I feel like their over exaggerating how bad it really is, they are acting like this was fucking guilty crown. They probably just did something like overhype something which is more along the lines of their fault not the show. Agreed, 'cause to be honest, I thought the final two episodes were actually pretty good. I didn't think too greatly of the show at first, but the last two episodes... I liked it. it was nowhere close to being as good as the original series, but come on, this series wasn't that terrible. I just didn't like Truth, Naru, or Elena. They were all kind of annoying. |
SavageSmickeyDec 31, 2012 5:15 PM
| Compared to the original this season was a huge let down. Eureka Seven had so much more.... everything. But AO was okay, I gave it a 7/10 since I think it deserved that when judging it as an anime series independent of the original. When comparing it to the original (as opposed to anime "in general") it deserves like a 3. or maybe a 2. tldr; pewp. |
| Ok, I cannot explain how I feel about AO in words at the moment. All I know is, they should have left the Original series alone. It was fine as a stand alone series. IT DID NOT NEED A SEQUEL. They threw in different dimensions, time travel, and a bunch of other fucked up shit that screwed the whole story line beyond the point of comprehension. I give AO a 7/10. Only because I loved the fast paced fighting that reminded me of the original series and the characters. Story wise, I give it a 2/10. |
KazukiUchiha said: Ok, I cannot explain how I feel about AO in words at the moment. All I know is, they should have left the Original series alone. It was fine as a stand alone series. IT DID NOT NEED A SEQUEL. They threw in different dimensions, time travel, and a bunch of other fucked up shit that screwed the whole story line beyond the point of comprehension. I give AO a 7/10. Only because I loved the fast paced fighting that reminded me of the original series and the characters. Story wise, I give it a 2/10. Really? I thought the story had much more thought into it. Although it was definitely less enjoyable, I felt as if the original Eureka Seven was much easier to follow. |
TheSmickey said: KazukiUchiha said: Ok, I cannot explain how I feel about AO in words at the moment. All I know is, they should have left the Original series alone. It was fine as a stand alone series. IT DID NOT NEED A SEQUEL. They threw in different dimensions, time travel, and a bunch of other fucked up shit that screwed the whole story line beyond the point of comprehension. I give AO a 7/10. Only because I loved the fast paced fighting that reminded me of the original series and the characters. Story wise, I give it a 2/10. Really? I thought the story had much more thought into it. Although it was definitely less enjoyable, I felt as if the original Eureka Seven was much easier to follow. There were times in AO when I didn't even understand what the hell was going on. And as I kept watching, it did not become easier to understand, it just kept getting harder and harder to understand until it was a clusterfuck. I saw someone earlier in this thread mention Guilty Crown. To be honest, I got a very similar feeling from this as I got from Guilty Crown. It was easy to follow for a little while, but by the time the second half of the series came around, it was to deep to even get a hold on. The reason I keep going on about comprehension of the story is because that itself has a big impact on if I enjoy a series or not. Action and Characters are good, but if I can't understand the story without having to sit down and think about it for 30+ minutes, it kinda kills it for me. |
KazukiUchiha said: TheSmickey said: KazukiUchiha said: Ok, I cannot explain how I feel about AO in words at the moment. All I know is, they should have left the Original series alone. It was fine as a stand alone series. IT DID NOT NEED A SEQUEL. They threw in different dimensions, time travel, and a bunch of other fucked up shit that screwed the whole story line beyond the point of comprehension. I give AO a 7/10. Only because I loved the fast paced fighting that reminded me of the original series and the characters. Story wise, I give it a 2/10. Really? I thought the story had much more thought into it. Although it was definitely less enjoyable, I felt as if the original Eureka Seven was much easier to follow. There were times in AO when I didn't even understand what the hell was going on. And as I kept watching, it did not become easier to understand, it just kept getting harder and harder to understand until it was a clusterfuck. I saw someone earlier in this thread mention Guilty Crown. To be honest, I got a very similar feeling from this as I got from Guilty Crown. It was easy to follow for a little while, but by the time the second half of the series came around, it was to deep to even get a hold on. The reason I keep going on about comprehension of the story is because that itself has a big impact on if I enjoy a series or not. Action and Characters are good, but if I can't understand the story without having to sit down and think about it for 30+ minutes, it kinda kills it for me. lol idk about you, but the characters made the series worse for me, not the plot. In the original eureka seven, you got to know the personality of each character- except in AO, Truth is just a crazy apeshit mindless dumbfuck, elena is a moody bastard, and Ao is just a flat out boring main character (for the most part) edit: and naru. i hate that elf eared slut. (horns? new head accesory? scub growing on her head? idk and idgaf) and i couldn't even really enjoy seeing renton either, considering how much he's changed. |
SavageSmickeyJan 5, 2013 2:52 PM
Omegawee said: There is, indeed, a lot of stuff in this thread, but if you were to only look at the substantive discussion and skimmed over the "This show sucks" posts, you'd cut out a lot of the thread. Conversely, this will only leave you with huge walls of text (lol). If you don't want to start at the beginning, you could probably start at around page 16 or 17 to read the more interesting discussion. There are certainly thoughtful posts in the earlier pages, cf. Dangerr and some others, but I'll leave wading through those at your discretion. To address your questions: #1-3, #10 can be directly answered by a timeline that I have posted on page 18, post #348. Most of your other questions have been at least discussed in part already and further answers could be divined from the timeline, but I'll be happy to tackle the remainders. 4) This is one of the true plot holes that never got any clarification in the series (there are surprisingly few plot holes). At this point, we honestly don't know how two Nirvash, Renton's TypeZero Spec V3 and the TypeZero Spec V2 that Eureka piloted, exist, let alone how those two got them. This actually brings into question the role of the Scub Control Cluster, but that's outside the scope of this question. 5) Archetypes haven't changed from their original meaning in PoP:E7. Think of Truth the Archetype as being the skeleton frame, but with an interface that directly communicates with Ao through speech software or something of the sort. 6) Kanon/Canon is also one plot hole that was never addressed. We can't be certain that it IS Anemone's Type theEnd, but we know that it is a blatant reference to it. It was likely found in the Scub Coral that crashed into earth, in which Generation Bleu also located their base of operations. 7) Destroying the (first) Scub in Ao's universe would annihilate the history of the Scubs being there and Scubs themselves from existence, whereas if one were to destroy the first Scub in the Land of Kanan (universe of PoP:E7), it would destroy not only the Scub there, but Eureka as well, being an offspring of the Scub. 8) Episode 14. That's when Eureka's TypeZero Spec 2 (w/ archetype) ejects her and goes off to fight Truth. Naru then commandeers it and uses it to fight Ao. 9) On the contrary, first, it would mean that the Scub Coral would be able to come to this universe and Earth and not meet any resistance from the Secrets. Then, they could easily have come to the present timeline (the past on Earth where AO takes place) and live with humanity all the same. Since the Scubs can travel through both time and space, they can live in the future but just as easily establish themselves in the past. Of course, they don't explicitly show that the Scubs are living in this universe now, but it likely is, which is where the argument that there is still trapar in the new world comes from. ---------------------------------------------------------- There is plenty of discussion on the Quartz Gun as a plot device sprinkled throughout this thread, especially starting from page 13. I directly address this topic in post #351 and provided my own theory on the Quartz Gun as a plot device. As for Naru, you're free to dislike her as you will, but one would hope that her objectives/feelings were understood in a greater context before she is disliked as a character. Also, while I'd also argue that she, Truth, and several other key supporting cast were obviously underdeveloped in the series, there is still quite a bit that you can glean from them. I discuss Naru in greater detail in post #363, Truth as well. Naturally, you are free to disagree with any and all of this; it will make for good discussion. I welcome that opportunity with E7:AO, and surely Dangerr is dying for a reason to come back to this thread as well. |
| I remember when I was 12. Playing my SNES, peeping on girls taking showers, fapping to softcore porn I accidentally found in my parents room. Ao, is one hell of a twelve year old that's for sure.... --- Anyways, this series went from good -> decent -> bad -> guilty crown bad -> okay As much of a sucker for time dilation/travel concept as I am. This anime did not deliver. 6/10 PS. Renton is still a phaggot |
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| When the show began to mindfuck people, I was totally into it.. but then it seemed everything got rushed jumbled and misguided in the end. I found myself actually rooting for Truth and Renton just so the world would turn back to normal, our world.. because the way it became it just didn't make sense. I can't even. So if the world has no scub or secrets, and Renton and Eureka went back to their world.. What? Are they just not going to have kids anymore? I guess since in their world their kids can't live with the immense trapar. How DID Ao fly on Renton's board anyway!? Along with that, I think I have more questions than answers. Will there be a second season? I say I hope not since everything SHOULD be fine now on Ao's end. We never got a final "ship" which I'm perfectly fine with. I wish Naru died lol. I wouldn't mind an epilogue, but my interest goes no farther than that. The only way they could have done a successful sequel was with the characters we loved, or at least give us some of that magical familiar feeling of E7. |
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Omegawee said: A question though, with this theory on quartz, can time travel having to make sense be disregarded? (I'm not saying that the time travel in the story doesn't make sense, I need to rewatch the series and think about it some more before I make that call) Since quartz is like a wish granting substance (best i can think of atm), can it bend the rules? I remember that the scubs had rule bending powers, so maybe the same applies for quartz? In regards to Elena, she was rescued in the past by Eureka from a scub burst. Was this when Eureka was trapped wandering through time or at a different time? I guess she could have saved her while wandering through time as Ao and his broken down Nirvash are shown to be able to materialize as well. Yes, you could say that it breaks rules, that is, of time and space. Quartz is the substance that Scub Coral creates that allows them to traverse time and space/alter it, which therefore allows them to be able to break the laws of physics as mentioned in PoP:E7. For example, in PoP:E7 they bended the laws of physics when the Limit of Questions was temporarily reached, i.e. when the planet breached the point of equilibrium. Naturally, the normal law of physics were restored when the Scubs killed off a bunch of humans, among other events in the anime. To say that Quartz is a wish-granting device is inaccurate. As mentioned prior, Quartz allows the traversal through time and the alteration of space. Think of "space" as to be inclusive of the events and truths that make up the present universe, e.g. the Norway plant existing/not existing. Think of it this way: the Gun alters "space" in a particular timeline, but as you travel to points on the timeline of that universe, the "space" aspect of it changes (in relation to the truths/events that the Quartz Gun altered) without leaving that universe, i.e. time travel. Basically, you can't just disregard time travel as a plot device and write everything confusing off as "granting wishes" as per my previously mentioned theory on Quartz. As for Elena, yes, it would have had to have been during the time Eureka was traveling from burst to burst. This topic does, actually, bring up an interesting observation. During the times Eureka was shown in that form, she could not interact with the physical world (objects always passed through her), yet when Ao was traversing through time, he could. Therefore, there must be some inherent distinction between Eureka turning herself into Quartz and traversing time/space and Ao shooting the Quartz Gun and traversing time/space while allowing him to retain his physical form. I'm sure the difference lies in Eureka actually turning herself into Quartz whereas Ao manipulated the Quartz by shooting the Gun. Those ears were just cosplay, but she was just trying to make a visual statement to represent herself as a human living in symbiosis with the Scub Coral. I think she said at some point that she thought they looked cool. MielxFoxie said: One way to look at it is that Ao shot the Secrets with the Quartz Gun, not the Scub Coral, which would seem to have erased the existence of Secrets. Although not explicitly mentioned, one would assume that this allowed for the coexistence of Scub Coral and humanity in the new world. That would mean trapar exists in that new world in low enough an amount where Ao wouldn't die, and therefore Ao could ride on his board. How DID Ao fly on Renton's board anyway!? Along with that, I think I have more questions than answers. As for a potential sequel to AO, refer to post #356 (pg. 18) on this thread. |
Kjeldoran109Nov 18, 2013 10:44 PM
| so is save to assume Ao is dead? (fell 2000 feet to his death on rentons borad without trapa) |
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Koko-Bear said: so is save to assume Ao is dead? (fell 2000 feet to his death on rentons borad without trapa) FFS... Why you gotta be like the other boons |
Brigs77Jan 16, 2013 10:55 PM
Brigandi said: Dangerr said: that is awesome news No that's awful/terrible news... They need to let it die and leave what little piece of integrity Eureka Seven has left. They need to leave well enough alone and do something new. |
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MEsoJD said: Brigandi said: Dangerr said: that is awesome news No that's awful/terrible news... They need to let it die and leave what little piece of integrity Eureka Seven has left. They need to leave well enough alone and do something new. you one of those people that love E7 so damn much that you set your expectations so damn high and became disappointed at the end cuz all you can think of is "So AO never happened" |
| Okayy I'm glad I'm finally done with this one, I didn't like this series as much as the prequel but in spite of everything it still has it's good points. I think I got the gist of the story, i.e. the Coral complicates everything just by trying to survive and then we get a story (E7) which is further complicated when it went for a stroll in time and the parallel universes particularly the current (E7 AO) universe, which Eureka happened to stumble into escaping from the Secret in another universe. 7/10 |
| You see there's no need to wonder where your god is, Coz he's right here! ...and he's fresh out of mercy. |
| Well , that was some Stein Neon Gate Evangelion I didn't expect that conclusion though |
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Brigandi said: MEsoJD said: Brigandi said: Dangerr said: that is awesome news No that's awful/terrible news... They need to let it die and leave what little piece of integrity Eureka Seven has left. They need to leave well enough alone and do something new. you one of those people that love E7 so damn much that you set your expectations so damn high and became disappointed at the end cuz all you can think of is "So AO never happened" Of course, this series was so shit it's not even funny o_o. They made a sequel it had potential and then they turned it into butter. If they do another season they had better well damn think of something else. Preferably not with the Horrible Main cast from Original Ao being so thickheaded dumbasses /rant. |
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| Tbh I don't see why there is so much hate, I didn't really hate the anime, it was a great watch, sure it wasn't nearly as good as the first but what anime's second season is good, look at darker than black, damn near ruined one of my favorites series with it's second season. The only thing I was upset about was stupid ending, if they would've just let him sacrifice himself and not re appear I might've been okay with it but the fact that he made it to where he doesn't exist anymore and still....existed really bothered me. Other than the last 2 eps I thought the anime was good, it held my attention so no hate. |
 Serial lurker |
| IT NEVER HAPPENED. BONED out of 10. |
| My Guitar Covers: Playlist I CAN ALWAYS SHOW MY EVERYTHING TO YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUU |
| you guys warned me but I didn't listen so I apologize. I got to see it to believe. But now I know, it's the worst shittiest ending I've ever seen. |
| Mata atarashii gaarufurendo? My name is Renton Saasuton. tsuzuku. RENTONNNNNNNNNN Ikuzo Nirubaashu! ...tearjerking |
| Isayama Hajime should be awarded The Manga with The Highest Inconsistencies of Characters' Appearances. He keeps performing multiple plastic surgeries on those Shingeki No Kyojin characters in a SINGLE chapter. Yes, I've read up to the latest chapter of Shingeki No Kyojin manga. Forced myself to read through the kidsketching chapters after the anime's ended. At least from now on, I only have to go through the hell once a month. Patiently awaiting SNK TV/movie/OVA anime-sequel. The 2015 SNK live-action movie would probably suck. |
| what the fuck was that ?? |
| I just got around to watching this. As someone who was never an adherent of the original show I did not think this show was such a letdown. At least it had good art/music/animation with a healthy dose of Gainax-ification. It was a fun watch and one of the of the most insane anime ever conceived. While it can't rightly be called anything but a trainwreck, I think it was irreverent and flashy enough (and didn't particularly destroy the E7 canon for those who care) that it was one of the most enjoyable trainwrecks I've ever seen. I think the show has much more in common with Godannar, Nadesico, Gurren or other comedy/insane mecha clusterfuck than any attempt at space drama/opera. |
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the_trainman said: jesus fucking christ......... fuck this kayos90 said: I don't think one needed to see these last two episodes to know that this series shouldn't have been made. Just saying. I agree, train fucking wreck all the way. First E7 series is special and that's it, this... show... never happened - yea that seems right. Amen to that. |
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| Wow. Maybe I was naive all along. Maybe I thought the title could salvage what I thought was near impenetrable but I suppose I was wrong. This series is by no means a 5 or 6 from what people are asserting but the way the conflict was resolved was absolutely horrible. The concept alone carried the show but barely provided any substance to go along with it. I was hoping for a miracle, was hoping Renton would come back and fix everything but I was severely wrong. If you had asked me "you want a sequel to Eureka Seven where the main protagonist is the child of Renton and Eureka?" my response would be fuck yeah and most of us would agree, as we did when this was first announced. However after watching it... I can't help but think how poorly executed this was. The pace was fine, until the ending. Now it looks like they dicked around for the first half of the show and decided to develop characters way too far and the way they tried to pack everything into the last episode just shows that this show should have been way much longer. There were things that were supposed to emotionally impact me but didn't. The death of Renton and Eureka's daughter had no impact on me, had there been any legitimate character development, that would be a completely different story. Eureka Seven Ao wowed me in many ways, but the way the concepts unraveled around its episode count is very disappointing. This could have been something much greater, but alas. I liked a lot of the new characters that were introduced, but I have way too many questions unanswered about the state of the previous world and former members of Gekkostate. This show really needs another sequel badly to patch things up, but seeing the reception... I doubt it sold well enough to get one. I saw Eureka Seven Ao as a worthy sequel through 23 episodes, unfortunately after seeing 24 I will stick with the original ending of Episode 50 of Eureka Seven. |
| Why did they even have to make this, like i mean E7 was perfect with the happy end and everyone seemed to agree with it! But making Ao not exist in the final episodes just doesn't make sense into make this series! Its like saying Eureka and Renton never had kids (since the first one died and Ao not existing), But oh well, whats done is done. I only watched this for Eureka and Renton moments, could care less for Ao (no one knows you anymore Ao, Lol) ^.^ |
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