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CrazyFool said: Damn, I don't get it :S Why did kiritsugu want to destroy the grail? Ok, it can only save the world in ways kiritsugu understands (kill 200, save 300) but why did he not use it to save his wife? he categorically mentions saving 6 billion when he strangles iri but then he goes on to destroy the grail anyway ???? And what is meant by the will of the grail? how can the grail have a will? The will of the grail is for irisviel to live a normal life?????? So yeah, would appreciate if somebody could explain to me why kerry wanted to destroy the grail, why does its cost outweigh any benefit it could deliver? Thanks folks. Your questions can be answered by reading some of the earlier posts. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
CrazyFool said: Damn, I don't get it :S Why did kiritsugu want to destroy the grail? Ok, it can only save the world in ways kiritsugu understands (kill 200, save 300) but why did he not use it to save his wife? he categorically mentions saving 6 billion when he strangles iri but then he goes on to destroy the grail anyway ???? And what is meant by the will of the grail? how can the grail have a will? The will of the grail is for irisviel to live a normal life?????? So yeah, would appreciate if somebody could explain to me why kerry wanted to destroy the grail, why does its cost outweigh any benefit it could deliver? Thanks folks. If Kiritsugu did the wish he would kill all humans.Also after it's corruption in the 3rd war it will interpret any wish of the owner only with destruction and then grant it ,thats why he ordered Saber to destroy it.The grail cant revive people anyway so he cant save her.And that wasnt Iri. Since the 3rd war it has been polluted by Angra Mainyu(also known as Avenger) which is also what took the form of Iri.And obviously,Iri living a normal life isnt it's goal. |
CrazyFool said: ssjokg said: CrazyFool said: Damn, I don't get it :S Why did kiritsugu want to destroy the grail? Ok, it can only save the world in ways kiritsugu understands (kill 200, save 300) but why did he not use it to save his wife? he categorically mentions saving 6 billion when he strangles iri but then he goes on to destroy the grail anyway ???? And what is meant by the will of the grail? how can the grail have a will? The will of the grail is for irisviel to live a normal life?????? So yeah, would appreciate if somebody could explain to me why kerry wanted to destroy the grail, why does its cost outweigh any benefit it could deliver? Thanks folks. If Kiritsugu did the wish he would kill all humans.Also after it's corruption in the 3rd war it will interpret any wish of the owner only with destruction and then grant it ,thats why he ordered Saber to destroy it.The grail cant revive people anyway so he cant save her.And that wasnt Iri. Since the 3rd war it has been polluted by Angra Mainyu(also known as Avenger) which is also what took the form of Iri.And obviously,Iri living a normal life isnt it's goal. Thanks for that. So how did Kiritsugu figure out that the grail has been corrupted? I guess all this angry maiyu crap that happens in the 3rd war is explained in fsn etc? he didnt know that it was corrupted but as you saw in the ep the wish wouldnt bring forth a miracle at alll. Yes it is explained a bit in FSN but Kerry has nothing to do with it |
| He didn't figure it was corrupted more like Angra outflat told him he was the perfect embodiment of "All Evils Of the World" and all that, and that there was a previous "will of the grail" (which it shouldn't as the Grail wasn't constructed as some magical A.I. or something, if anything it's supposed to have Justizia's will). From that Kiritsugu started wondering why there was already a wish made when no one had yet acquired the Grail. And of course The Grail gave him the crazy dream that cemented the whole "miracles through destruction" thing. Kirei however knows a liiiitle more than Kiritsugu does, or so it seems by the way he pleaded for the Grail's completion. |
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fabriazp said: Dunno if already pointed out but at the kirei vs emiya battle that soundtrack is the SAME of madoka magica pay attention to it Oh yeh now that you mention soundtrack... No EMIYA playing in the background this episode... |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
CrazyFool said: It doesn't have to grant that wish. There's already a wish in queue, if you want to call it that, which is what will destroy the world. But that's... something you really don't have to mind in Fate/Zero. You don't even get backstory about it until Heaven's Feel and Hollow Ataraxia.just one more question. how exactly would the grail destroy the world in granting even the smallest of wishes? |
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BloodRequiem said: fabriazp said: Dunno if already pointed out but at the kirei vs emiya battle that soundtrack is the SAME of madoka magica pay attention to it Oh yeh now that you mention soundtrack... No EMIYA playing in the background this episode... I was upset about that. And there was nothing even vaguely resembling Madoka's soundtrack. Also, Kiritsugu is such a badass Ninjask. |
ataraxialJun 17, 2012 9:39 PM
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| Good episode, really enjoyed the fight scenes. Show is still sort of failing at being deep though, that whole "in the grail" bit was pretty cheesy and partially ruined Kiritsugu's character for me. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
Post-Josh said: partially ruined Kiritsugu's character for me Need explain. |
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| That was mindfuck.. reminds me of the last episodes of Evangelion. Its so sad that the next week is going to end.. ima totally miss this anime. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
NNick said: Reading LN, Will there be explanation what happened during the Third Grail War? For that you'll want to read the Heaven's Feel Route from the Fate Stay Night visual novel and Hollow Ataraxia, and even that will only provide you with information on the Grail, itself. Other details, such as the identities of the participants during the war, pretty much need to be recovered from either the Side Materials, or more accessibily, the Type Moon Wiki. |
LunarMoonJun 18, 2012 12:32 AM
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
| Wait why didn't Kerry make the wish? He was going to sacrifice few to save many. Isn't that the reason he wanted the Grail? |
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| Really nice battle from Kiritsugu x Kirei |
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Kurogashi said: Wait why didn't Kerry make the wish? He was going to sacrifice few to save many. Isn't that the reason he wanted the Grail? Because seihai kun will have to kill everyone to grant his wish. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| it blows my mind how one fight can be amazing and another complete garbage, all in one episode. other than that, amazing episode. a very Matrix feel in some parts, from the bullet time to entering the Grail. the Berserker fight felt like it got hacked with a chainsaw about a dozen times. it felt like something out of the DEEN treatment of Fate/Stay Night. 4/5, would have been perfect if UFO didn't shit the bed in that one aspect. those extra bluray scenes have better be pure Saber/Lancelot pandering or there's gonna be a fanboy shitstorm. |
| Ooo, what a lovely tea party. |
Zee530 said: So this episode defeats the whole purpose and existence of the series itself. Time to watch FSN i guess Eh, but Fate/Zero was written to show just how much Kiritsugu ideals are stupid and to bully Saber (the latter reason is outright stated at the end of first Fate/Zero LN). I would say that this episode successfully realizes both purposes. :> |
| This was finally an episode I could give a 5/5. Kiritsugu is awesome. I'm glad he rocked Kirei's shit. Kiritsugu may be fucked up, but at least he sticks to his guns (no pun intended). I love his characterization. Only good character in the show. I want to see Gilgamesh's cocky, narcissistic ass get destroyed. He deserves it. One thing I'm really confused by though. They made it seem like Kiritsugu would somehow have to chose between the world or his family. Where did that come from? I'm really confused by that whole ordeal. I see what choice he would have made, but would he even have had to really make it? I don't get it. |
| Video rants & stuff: Top 12 Heart-Wrenching Scenes in Anime | DraconisMarch Video Club |
belatkuro said: Happy Father's Day. Dammit ufotable, you're doing this on purpose Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. Children's Day-Kiritsugu kills his dad Mother's Day-Kiritsugu kills the person who he considers to be like a mother to him Father's Day-Kiritsugu "kills" his wife and child Great job, Kiritsugu Don't know whether it's a coincidence or perfect timing on ufotable's part.... Alright. About the episode, the first half was pretty much butchered. From the perspective of a Light Novel reader, it was very disappointing. Saber vs Berserker in this only made sense because I read the novels, but from the point of any other person, it looks like Kariya collapsed because Saber stabbed Berserker and not the other way around. Plus, Berserker's character, hatred, and motives were left completely undeveloped. The Kirei vs Kiritsugu fight was better, but still missed a lot. The good part was that the Grail sequence made up for it. Thank you, Seihai-kun for that. Overall, this episode screams for an uncut version or an expanded Blu-ray release. |
(Also known on other places as Hiss13) All hail the adorable chess master! |
EmBabes said: Was that Shirou's voice during the preview? Yes. DraconisMarch said: This was finally an episode I could give a 5/5. Kiritsugu is awesome. I'm glad he rocked Kirei's shit. Kiritsugu may be fucked up, but at least he sticks to his guns (no pun intended). I love his characterization. Only good character in the show. I want to see Gilgamesh's cocky, narcissistic ass get destroyed. He deserves it. One thing I'm really confused by though. They made it seem like Kiritsugu would somehow have to chose between the world or his family. Where did that come from? I'm really confused by that whole ordeal. I see what choice he would have made, but would he even have had to really make it? I don't get it. The idea is that the only way to completely guarantee the safety of his family is to kill everyone else. |
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HellecticMojo said: 1. BDswell they dropped the ball, jumped the shark, etc on this one. we know nothing about lancelot, we don't see sakura's okay.jpg response to kariya dying, Damn you Rin episode, why were you so damn unnecessary? 2. Next episode(if they'll put it there) 3. I like the Rin episode. |
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| I like how Ufotable does one thing wrong and everyone's up in their shit like they're the worst studio ever. Yes, the Saber vs Berserker fight was rushed and I honestly see why everyone would be mad about it considering the Rin episode in season one, but grow the hell up and cast aside your fanboy dreams of an ideal world where everything is custom-made to fit your specific wants. Fate Zero has been an amazing ride saturated with exciting fights, compelling dialogue, magnificent characters, an engaging plot, beautiful directing and, save for this episode, good pacing that captures the viewers interest and leaves him wanting more at the end of each episode. This isn't even the final product, either. While most studios are concerned with censoring lady parts in order to sell their show, Ufotable (Ufotable is a company, in case you didn't know. Companies usually like to make money) takes a different approach and adds extra scenes that were cut due to time constraints. It's like dismissing a game as terrible when you've only seen the concept art. If you can't accept this adaptation as well done and dismiss Ufotable as trash you should probably stop watching anime altogether, because I bet any attempt at pleasing you in the future will be met with scorn, slander and juvenile butthurt over why the studio didn't bend the story to your exact specifications. |
Selsica said: I like how Ufotable does one thing wrong and everyone's up in their shit like they're the worst studio ever. Yes, the Saber vs Berserker fight was rushed and I honestly see why everyone would be mad about it considering the Rin episode in season one, but grow the hell up and cast aside your fanboy dreams of an ideal world where everything is custom-made to fit your specific wants. Fate Zero has been an amazing ride saturated with exciting fights, compelling dialogue, magnificent characters, an engaging plot, beautiful directing and, save for this episode, good pacing that captures the viewers interest and leaves him wanting more at the end of each episode. This isn't even the final product, either. While most studios are concerned with censoring lady parts in order to sell their show, Ufotable (Ufotable is a company, in case you didn't know. Companies usually like to make money) takes a different approach and adds extra scenes that were cut due to time constraints. It's like dismissing a game as terrible when you've only seen the concept art. If you can't accept this adaptation as well done and dismiss Ufotable as trash you should probably stop watching anime altogether, because I bet any attempt at pleasing you in the future will be met with scorn, slander and juvenile butthurt over why the studio didn't bend the story to your exact specifications. Just to let you know ,in case you failed to read more than"where is Berserker's fight?",no one called Ufotable trash,shitty,DEEN or anything else.Is Ufotable one of your fav studios?Mine too.Thats why I can complain when i know they could do better in this ep.And that the BD probably will be uncut doesn't mean that I cant be butthurt for the tv version of the ep. |
CreationBreaker said: Alright. About the episode, the first half was pretty much butchered. From the perspective of a Light Novel reader, it was very disappointing. Saber vs Berserker in this only made sense because I read the novels, but from the point of any other person, it looks like Kariya collapsed because Saber stabbed Berserker and not the other way around. I could read him collapsing because of exhaustion/running out of mana from the context and figured berserker stood still because of it. I didn't read the LN. Still, pulled of badly. |
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BloodRequiem said: loub31 said: i didnt undestand what did Kiri mean by : " it longs for its own life ... for its own birth ... please don't kill it !!! what did he was talking about ? " If you haven't read HF then you would have no idea WTF he is talking about. That's why people keep on suggesting others to read the F/SN VN before watching F/Z. Anyways. WTF ... now i understand that i didn't understand anything about this grail |
DraconisMarch said: One thing I'm really confused by though. They made it seem like Kiritsugu would somehow have to chose between the world or his family. Where did that come from? I'm really confused by that whole ordeal. I see what choice he would have made, but would he even have had to really make it? I don't get it. The Grail implied that by making a wish upon it to make it so, that it would bring back Irisveil and reunite him with his daughter. Whether this is true or not, however, is questionable though, as the Grail had long ago become corrupted. Due to this corruption the Grail will interpret any wish made upon it so that the maximum number of people will be killed. For instance, if someone asks the Grail to make them the richest person in the world, then it will do so by killing off every other person on the face of the Earth, making the wisher the richest by default. So, by making a wish upon the Grail, whether it would it bring Iri back are not, it would result in the death of as many people as possible. In other words, 6 billion people would be killed to, according to the Grail’s word, bring Iri back and reunite him with Ilya. |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
ssjokg said: Selsica said: I like how Ufotable does one thing wrong and everyone's up in their shit like they're the worst studio ever. Yes, the Saber vs Berserker fight was rushed and I honestly see why everyone would be mad about it considering the Rin episode in season one, but grow the hell up and cast aside your fanboy dreams of an ideal world where everything is custom-made to fit your specific wants. Fate Zero has been an amazing ride saturated with exciting fights, compelling dialogue, magnificent characters, an engaging plot, beautiful directing and, save for this episode, good pacing that captures the viewers interest and leaves him wanting more at the end of each episode. This isn't even the final product, either. While most studios are concerned with censoring lady parts in order to sell their show, Ufotable (Ufotable is a company, in case you didn't know. Companies usually like to make money) takes a different approach and adds extra scenes that were cut due to time constraints. It's like dismissing a game as terrible when you've only seen the concept art. If you can't accept this adaptation as well done and dismiss Ufotable as trash you should probably stop watching anime altogether, because I bet any attempt at pleasing you in the future will be met with scorn, slander and juvenile butthurt over why the studio didn't bend the story to your exact specifications. Just to let you know ,in case you failed to read more than"where is Berserker's fight?",no one called Ufotable trash,shitty,DEEN or anything else.Is Ufotable one of your fav studios?Mine too.Thats why I can complain when i know they could do better in this ep.And that the BD probably will be uncut doesn't mean that I cant be butthurt for the tv version of the ep. Glad someone is speaking some truth on this forum. Not the worst studio ever, quite the contrary, but come on. I have never read the novel, and this episode upset me. Still pretty to look at though. |
| Meanwhile at Sankaku complex : Top 10 Most Disappointing Anime of 2012 So Far 1. Natsuiro Kiseki 2. AKB0048 3. Nisemonogatari 4. Hyouka 5. Accel World 6. New Prince of Tennis 7. Fate/Zero Season 2 8. Aquarion Evol 9. Gundam Seed HD Remaster 10. Haiyore! Nyaruko-san I wonder what kind of standards must someone have to be disappointed by FZ? Not enough naked loli fanservice? |
| ^Those lists are always complete shit. |
 |
| You know, for people not mad at ufotable you guys sure are still raging. |
|
Leon-Gun said: You know, for people not mad at ufotable you guys sure are still raging. False.I(at least)rage at people raging at me for raging about ufotable two days ago. And lets be honest.Ufotable and FZ wont stop being some of my favorite studio and anime just because of one scene.Even if I wanted that scene now, instead of waiting for the bd. |
Goatee said: ssjokg said: Selsica said: I like how Ufotable does one thing wrong and everyone's up in their shit like they're the worst studio ever. Yes, the Saber vs Berserker fight was rushed and I honestly see why everyone would be mad about it considering the Rin episode in season one, but grow the hell up and cast aside your fanboy dreams of an ideal world where everything is custom-made to fit your specific wants. Fate Zero has been an amazing ride saturated with exciting fights, compelling dialogue, magnificent characters, an engaging plot, beautiful directing and, save for this episode, good pacing that captures the viewers interest and leaves him wanting more at the end of each episode. This isn't even the final product, either. While most studios are concerned with censoring lady parts in order to sell their show, Ufotable (Ufotable is a company, in case you didn't know. Companies usually like to make money) takes a different approach and adds extra scenes that were cut due to time constraints. It's like dismissing a game as terrible when you've only seen the concept art. If you can't accept this adaptation as well done and dismiss Ufotable as trash you should probably stop watching anime altogether, because I bet any attempt at pleasing you in the future will be met with scorn, slander and juvenile butthurt over why the studio didn't bend the story to your exact specifications. Just to let you know ,in case you failed to read more than"where is Berserker's fight?",no one called Ufotable trash,shitty,DEEN or anything else.Is Ufotable one of your fav studios?Mine too.Thats why I can complain when i know they could do better in this ep.And that the BD probably will be uncut doesn't mean that I cant be butthurt for the tv version of the ep. Glad someone is speaking some truth on this forum. Not the worst studio ever, quite the contrary, but come on. I have never read the novel, and this episode upset me. Still pretty to look at though. The animation was below average (ufotable standard) in this episode. Go take a look at ep 5 or ep 14 then look at this ep again, it's noticeable worse. Leon-Gun said: You know, for people not mad at ufotable you guys sure are still raging. I'm not mad anymore, just disappointed. They could pour all the money to make a loli Rin ep and 2 eps for Kerry's past with gorgeous animation but when it comes to stuffs that actually matter they cut down the budget and rush it. |
ssjokg said: Well yeah, in the end it all will boil down to what scenes the uncut episodes will have.Leon-Gun said: You know, for people not mad at ufotable you guys sure are still raging. False.I(at least)rage at people raging at me for raging about ufotable two days ago. And lets be honest.Ufotable and FZ wont stop being some of my favorite studio and anime just because of one scene.Even if I wanted that scene now, instead of waiting for the bd. |
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ssjokg said: Leon-Gun said: You know, for people not mad at ufotable you guys sure are still raging. False.I(at least)rage at people raging at me for raging about ufotable two days ago. And lets be honest.Ufotable and FZ wont stop being some of my favorite studio and anime just because of one scene.Even if I wanted that scene now, instead of waiting for the bd. ...Rageception? Ufotable does need to take the course Introduction to Anime Episode Pacing though. |
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| Honestly, rather than the Berserker monologue and flashback being cut out, I am more disappointed with how the Kiritsugu vs Kirei fight turned out. The missing Berserker scenes will most likely be added in the BD version, but the fight will probably just get some QUALITY fixes. Lots of nitpicking and whine. Read at your own risk: ataraxial said: I've had no problem with the pacing other than with this episode. It's been fairly balanced in my opinion. Should be even better with some added/longer scenes like the first season got.Ufotable does need to take the course Introduction to Anime Episode Pacing though. |
stAtic91Jun 18, 2012 1:56 PM
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ssjokg said: Meanwhile at Sankaku complex : Top 10 Most Disappointing Anime of 2012 So Far 1. Natsuiro Kiseki 2. AKB0048 3. Nisemonogatari 4. Hyouka 5. Accel World 6. New Prince of Tennis 7. Fate/Zero Season 2 8. Aquarion Evol 9. Gundam Seed HD Remaster 10. Haiyore! Nyaruko-san I wonder what kind of standards must someone have to be disappointed by FZ? Not enough naked loli fanservice? Dude...its Sankaku complex... That whole site is filled with adult content so what else do you expect? |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: It's not like sankaku made the list.Dude...its Sankaku complex... That whole site is filled with adult content so what else do you expect? |
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stAtic91 said: BloodRequiem said: It's not like sankaku made the list.Dude...its Sankaku complex... That whole site is filled with adult content so what else do you expect? That's the problem.What is wrong with jap anime fans?I mean if this goes on in the future the anime industry will end up making ONLY moe or Queens blade anime.Dont get me wrong some of them are good to pass time with a few laughs but the majority sucks. Anyway back to FZ.Yeah Kirei vs Kiritsugu wasnt as good as the LN or the Sound drama although I barely knew what they were saying.But at least it was a decent one AND full.Well at least, I will probably enjoy the bd version but dont know about you because I doubt there will be big changes with Kirei's fight,like punching the bullet... |
BloodRequiem said: loub31 said: i didnt undestand what did Kiri mean by : " it longs for its own life ... for its own birth ... please don't kill it !!! what did he was talking about ? " If you haven't read HF then you would have no idea WTF he is talking about. That's why people keep on suggesting others to read the F/SN VN before watching F/Z. Anyways. thank you for the explication ... so you mean that Angra Mainyu is Iri in the dream ; right ? |
ssjokg said: That's the problem.What is wrong with jap anime fans?I mean if this goes on in the future the anime industry will end up making ONLY moe or Queens blade anime.Dont get me wrong some of them are good to pass time with a few laughs but the majority sucks. I realized that a long time ago, which is why I long ago stopped hoping that this moe craze would end or that things would return to as they were before. The anime industry is suffering from the same thing that the Western comic industry is, in that they’ve focused so much on appealing to hardcore geeks that they’ve lost the support of the average consumer. They’ve dug themselves into a hole and into a vicious cycle, in which they’re pretty much forced to produce loli fanservice anime in order to appeal to this niche demographic. |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
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