| Note: I'm not talking about ANIMATION but about ART. I said: How come people only consider stuff "good looking" thats mostly made on the computer with super-high-tech-nology? Why can't they enjoy the older, more natural and detailed art many shows/movies have to offer? It never ceases to make me sad :( Why prefer artificial colors over detailed scenery? I don't get it :/ I've discovered the greatness of older art not too long ago, but since then I tend to think that in my opinion animes gone downhill in the art department since ~2000, yet many people ONLY like the art after 2000. Of course there are animes with great art after 2000, but the majority just looks mostly the same, artificial, un-alive, undetailed with no heart in it. Give me Handdrawn movies from the 80's anytime over most modern stuff, concerning art only. Anyway I'd like to know what exactly you (most people) hate so much about older art. Is it the fact that it looks more cartoonish and less "cool" if it's not mostly done with the computer? Try to explain your point to me please. |
AlcoholicideMar 12, 2014 10:25 AM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Personally, I just like the look of it more. There isn't really a reason, I just prefer it. Just like how I prefer the classic Disney art to anime art. Just because. |
| It's probably because the art looks dated. I actually like art before the 2000's, in general. They just look very special and differentiated. |
| I guess I'm more into the recent stuff. If the art is old looking I just can't watch it. It bugs me. The characters don't look as good and I get annoyed with it to be honest. |
| I can't get hard off the older stuff, that's why. |
| How old are we talking? mid to late 90's art was probably the best, but anything before the late 80's is rightfully disliked, it wasn't so great. |
| It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. |
| i agree i hate it when anime fans refuse to watch anything pre 2000 when they haven't even seen an 80s anime before besides dragon ball |
| I've seen one or two 80s anime before (it wasn't Dragonball) and it was artful, but I don't pay attention to just that when I'm watching an anime. When I watch an older series, I tend to get the feeling that most movement is robotic. Especially cars and trains. CG is better for those kinds of things. I love detail and art but I also like it when things move around a lot instead of staying still for long periods of time. |
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| 20 years later these newer CG that made everyone refuse the older art style will be hated by the next generation of anime fans. |
| cuz they have weird/old/darkish colors, though the character design are fine. besides, this guy is pretty old be looks kinda cute:  |
Kipcha said: Personally, I just like the look of it more. There isn't really a reason, I just prefer it. Just like how I prefer the classic Disney art to anime art. Just because. But I'd say the older anime art is definitely closer to Disney Art than the post-2000 art. Akamitsu said: I've seen one or two 80s anime before (it wasn't Dragonball) and it was artful, but I don't pay attention to just that when I'm watching an anime. When I watch an older series, I tend to get the feeling that most movement is robotic. Especially cars and trains. CG is better for those kinds of things. I love detail and art but I also like it when things move around a lot instead of staying still for long periods of time. That may be true and is a totally legit reason, but for me this is only important in some kinds of animes and I generally find the art way more important than the animation, because it's even more recognizable, but that's just me. supersayen said: cuz they have weird/old/darkish colors, though the character design are fine. Hehe, I personally like it exactly because of the more darkish tones. It looks more natural and not so flashy and shrill somehow, it's easier to take serious (I actually don't care so much for older art in comedy series where you don't really need to take them serious) imo and I find it more comfortable to watch. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| The old cliche goes, Looks can be deceiving or Don't judge a book by its cover |
| I don't think a lot of people solely hate the art. It's more about art and animation. It's one thing to like the art, it's another to tolerate that art with its obsolete animation. When combined, they're really so very interrelated to judge the two separately. I guess those series that only have people talk for like the entire show is okay. But even just walking or expressions might seem awkward due to its limits. |
| I prefer 90s art best. 2000 and above is just way too heavy on generic, soulless computer animation with flashy bright colours and all. Naturally, the really good animation these days easily tops most of the good animation from the 90s, but for the general TV anime, I'd say the quality has fallen rather than risen. Preferences might be one thing, but I agree, refusing to watch something because of the animation is mostly retarded. But then again, the people who do so are obviously only looking for shallow entertainment and ignore the stories either way. The only possible exception I can think of is generic shounen action series or hentai, in those cases the content is the same shit no matter what age it's from, so picking the one with the better animation makes sense. |
Confucius said: The old cliche goes, Looks can be deceiving or Don't judge a book by its cover I agree with this cliche, but it doesn't apply 100% here. Anime is meant to be watched, and the art plays a much more pivotal role in shows than it does in a book. I am not saying that older animes can't have good plots. It's just that times have changed and themes that appeal to audiences are different. With the new technology, animes can convey these themes and ideas with greater efficiency than before. (Imagine something like trying to pull off a movie like Avatar in the 1950s) Many people also think that the older art also isn't "shiny" enough. Newer anime is more detailed and gives an overall feeling of professionalism and visual aesthetic. It's just like watching an American TV show. Of course, there are many people that still enjoy the old black and white shows, but most people prefer to watch the newer programs with more relevant themes and better effects. Personally, I probably won't watch any older animes that are not classics. There are just too many "newer" animes that also have great plots that I plan to watch. For me, art and animation quality plays a big role in deciding anime to watch, because if I didn't care about the art, I would just go read a book. My two cents. |
barneyslayerOct 1, 2010 6:37 PM
barneyslayer said: Confucius said: The old cliche goes, Looks can be deceiving or Don't judge a book by its cover I agree with this cliche, but it doesn't apply 100% here. Anime is meant to be watched, and the art plays a much more pivotal role in shows than it does in a book. I am not saying that older animes can't have good plots. It's just that times have changed and themes that appeal to audiences are different. With the new technology, animes can convey these themes and ideas with greater efficiency than before. (Imagine something like trying to pull off a movie like Avatar in the 1950s) The older art also isn't "shiny" enough. Newer anime is more detailed and gives an overall feeling of professionalism and visual aesthetic. It's just like watching an American TV show. Of course, there are many people that still enjoy the old black and white shows, but most people prefer to watch the newer programs with more relevant themes and better effects. Personally, I probably won't watch any older animes that are not classics. There are just too many "newer" animes that I plan to watch, that I won't have time for the older art. Art and animation quality plays a big role in deciding anime to watch, because if I didn't care about the art, I would just go read a book. My two cents. You seem to miss the point. The "shinyness" is one of the reasons some people don't like the new art. Also what you call "Professional" or "Visual Aesthetic" I call soulless (lending the expression from Baman). And I simply can't agree on newer anime's art being more detailed. I'm watching "Future Boy Conan" from the late 70's right now and it's scenery and art is more detailed than most new shows. Animation quality is one thing, but your post sounded like you want to say the art has also gotten objectively better which simply can't be true as there is no better or worse concerning art. Tachi's argument of art and animation being inseperable is to be considered, but first saying "People don't hate the art" and then speaking of "tolerating" the art is kind of contradicting. You'd have to hate the art in the first place if you would have to tolerate it along with the less modern animation, but if you actually like it the animation shouldn't be reason enough to stay away from it. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
barneyslayer said: I beg to differ.Newer anime is more detailed and gives an overall feeling of professionalism and visual aesthetic. The difference in detail has little to do with technology and age, but more with budget. Your average TV anime both in the 90s and now usually suck in the detail department, it's the higher budget and shorter movies and OVAs that actually have detailed and (close to) fluid animation. And I've not really noticed much difference between the high budget movies of today and the past. Naturally, the difference between the ages does get wider when you move down into the 80s and 70s, but at least in the last couple of decades, the level has been fairly stable. The prevailing art styles in a work also influence the animation detail a lot. Take Cowboy Bebop and GitS for example. Their realistic art styles demand a similarly realistic level of detail, whereas stuff like TTGL, One Piece and Code Geass feature a lot less realistic design. Thus, they can skimp much more out on the details, focusing on a more stylised and flashy, but much less advanced art. |
Higashi_no_Kaze said: I don't get why that's contradictory. One can like solely the art, or at least not hate, but one may not tolerate the art with/and its animation. The sentence being "it's one thing to like the art, another to tolerate the art with/and its animation." Um, in other words, you can like the art, or not hate the art at least, but you might not tolerate the art and its animation. Dunno if that cleared up a bit. The entire post has to do with the interrelatedness of art and animation. You can like one aspect, but the combination is disliked either due to other aspects in the combination overweighing the said aspect, or just that the combination doesn't work really well together. In this case, I feel it's the former.Tachi's argument of art and animation being inseperable is to be considered, but first saying "People don't hate the art" and then speaking of "tolerating" the art is kind of contradicting. You'd have to hate the art in the first place if you would have to tolerate it along with the less modern animation, but if you actually like it the animation shouldn't be reason enough to stay away from it. |
| The actual art has not become "objectively" better as you said I imply. I am merely stating the fact that with new technologies. more complex and convincing visual effects can be created. This also allows detail to be created more easily and quickly. I am sure that your "Future Boy Conan" has outstanding artwork, but it probably took longer and took more effort to create than more modern shows. While there are still masterpieces from the pre 2000s, there is more detail in the average new anime than the average old anime. You could probably call this new artwork "soulless" because it requires less time and effort, but the animators are just utilizing new techniques and technology to create art. Compare and contrast the artwork of the Middle Ages and the art of the Renaissance. The artists were just adapting their paintings with newer technologies and techniques, and created "newer" looking art. But hey, why are we arguing this? You asked for opinions and I gave mine to you freely and honestly. I might like Clannad, while you prefer Future Boy Conan. There is no universal truth when it comes to stuff like this. We have different opinions and values, and that's okay. After all, like you said, "there is no better or worse concerning art". |
| Tolerating just had such a negative undertone (wiki: In general usage, tolerance is the ability to accept the existence of something while still disapproving of it). BUt, okay, if we really assume that art and animation are 100% interwoven and inseperable (which I don't see the same way, but it's a legit point of view) than you're right, people will judge by the aspect they deem more important, or if one of the aspects is really, really much worse. But Baman's point definitely holds some truth, I don't see the overall difference in animation as so big that it could make up for the decline in the art departure. edit: @ barney: I mostly started arguing with you because your post did sound like it implied to be objective about art. If you just say that nowadays stuff can be made faster there's nothing to argue about because that's true. And the Rest is up to individual taste. |
AlcoholicideOct 1, 2010 7:08 PM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
xSecret_Skyx said: I guess I'm more into the recent stuff. If the art is old looking I just can't watch it. It bugs me. The characters don't look as good and I get annoyed with it to be honest. +1 |
 |
| I like older anime, probably because that's all I watched for a long time. I like the darker color palette and more realistic-looking characters. Many post-2000 anime seems to boast more pink-haired, purple-eyed, etc. other unnatural colors to characters that are largely unneeded and only used to draw in the younger crowd. The only post-2000 anime that I tend to enjoy are those that have a "lack" of flashy colors, such as Monster, Seirei no Moribito and Mushishi. I like 90s animation the best, but, then again, that's what I grew up watching. In the 90s, anime companies more or less perfected the background art and character designs, and so they experimented with new special effects to enhance the experience of the viewer, such as CGI. But it seems that post-2000, more and more companies are putting less effort on the art itself, and more on how to make their shows stand out so they can market it. But overall, old anime has better art, modern anime has better animation. |
Higashi_no_Kaze said: Kipcha said: Personally, I just like the look of it more. There isn't really a reason, I just prefer it. Just like how I prefer the classic Disney art to anime art. Just because. But I'd say the older anime art is definitely closer to Disney Art than the post-2000 art. Not even close. Snow White and the seven dwarfs came out in 1937 and it still looks better then 90% of anime that came out in 1987. pre 90's anime wasn't great by any means in terms of art, Anime during the 80's was always behind the curve in art wise. It took anime 60 plus years to eventually surpass the rest of the world. Seriously if you think this looks better then This I would heavily recommend getting your head checked. |
| It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. |
| I like both.....people will spare quality of the story for animation though, nothing wrong with that. It is called anime for a reason, and for alot of people the newer visuals is what got them into anime in the first place so it's not surprising that some people have trouble with older anime. |
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| If you think the artwork and animation from the 1970s and the 1980s is bad, then obviously everyone's forgotten how "crappy" the Hanna-Barbara cartoons of that time and how god awful they are animated as well as long with other popular shows of the day And as I always say, it's asinine to completely ignore older anime cause the art work style and animation is outdated. You don't put Citizen Kane in color just because black and white is now considered out dated. Look for the beauty in things that came before for what they achieved in their time and why they may be considered seminal works instead of casting it aside cause the show is about panties |
Gin-iro said: But overall, old anime has better art, modern anime has better animation. aw.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I like newer art because I am just used to watching new art.Just like how people like new cloth ,new car ,new whatever shit ,yet the previous old item can still be used at its basic function. Don't like New art??no ..no ,I am just tired of looking at new art.Need to put some faith and hope in the new generation because new art will soon become old classic when the time comes. ^.^ Oh one more thing,I think there is no such thing as old art has better plot or better story than the newer .Generalizing this idea is just being no different than stereotype. People in that old era thought that the older art has more better plot and better story.So what, people nowadays are getting more and more stupid while technology are getting more and more advance??doesn't very sound smart to me -__- Well,at least our "survival" instinct in our brain still function properly. |
MorningGloryOct 1, 2010 11:34 PM
| Trust me, I love it (I loved LoGH and Robotech), I just think that people aren't used to it and are frightened by it. Robotech was the first anime with art older than Cowboy Bebop/Outlaw Star that I really watched and it was pretty damn off putting for the first 4 episodes or so as I grew used to the art style. But then once I grew accustomed to it, it really grew on me and I find something charming about it, now I totally dig it, but I will admit it felt weird at first. |
| because guess what? as technology advances, art looks more appealing. lets compare pre 2000s to the 2000s pre 2000-  2000s-  pretty obvious which girl looks better lol |
| Pretty sad that shows with no substance in the story and characters but has newer art will always be more popular than shows with great story and characters but has old art. |
| I do not have a preference for old or new. I am not easily impressed with eye candy. |
| Like most anime styles, old and new, but...it isn't just computers, QC has gotten better over the years, the genre has become accepted and popular world wide, more money = better quality. Artists have refined their work and their style. Not sure how you can say older animes are better detailed. Movies ya, (the money angle again) weren't all that bad, series however repeating backgrounds (saves money and time) lots of still shots (again saves money and time) even modern anime (some anyway) suffer from that. cakeisthesauce said: pretty obvious which girl looks better lol Sailor Moon ^^ aye but that's a good example, much cleaner lines, less bleeding or color bleed through, technology can do the drudgery of cleanup work even if the entire work is hand drawn and inked. do it faster, more precisely, and cheaply. i think of anime/manga as art, if the old masters (of the more accepted arts) had the technology available now...better brushes, much better pigments and colors...in sculpture, better tools and materials...you think they wouldn't have used them? |
| Donate brains...zombies in Washington DC are starving. >.> |
| Some of the recent animes only focused on animation,while the story lacks the deepness almost all old anime since the 70s had...those were anime where the drawiing wasn't the main point,although for the time it was done marvelously,but the expressions the characters could unfold,which are based on a good plot to keep you yearning for more and cheering for the characters..but i still have hope for the future,my hope derives from Kanon,Clannad,Air,Fate stay night ,Kara no kyuokai, Shuffle,Angel beats,..most of you should know these animes as there were all adapted from visual novels and light novels,they already had a great plot,because they were novels they focused on the stories...with the stories already perfect in the anime adaption,they could freely focus on the animations and the backgrounds and thus resulting in epic experiences^^ In short i hope they start doing more adaptions of these novels, i've read tons and there were all simply amazing and not forgetting that Japanese are geniuses in literature^^ |
| Older animation does not really bother me in anime as I grew up watching many from the 90s and overall I like watching anime that is completely hand drawn as opposed to the current usage of computers for animation. I like watching shows with older art also just to see how much animation standards have changed over time as well. I also find the older anime series (from the 90s and before) to be a lot more entertaining. The storylines are often way better and they don't have cliches such as moe and fanservice found in newer anime series. Plus, a lot more effort and work was put into making the older anime we consider classics today. Also I do not understand why people think anime art from the 90s is bad. Most of them have fairly good art and animation that look just as good in comparison to more recent series(the brighter colors and more use of cg is the only real difference) or have art styles that are old, but still hold up fairly well today. |
ZakuHeadOct 1, 2010 11:52 PM
Baman said: This most idiotic thing I've read today.refusing to watch something because of the animation is mostly retarded. |
Earth gets angry after a kick in the face. |
| Personally I refused to watch HxH because it looked appalling (though looking at the first episode now, it doesn't actually look that bad, heh, my tastes have changed), instead I read the manga, which was decent before he decided to scribble on the page and call it a manga. Having no substance at all and being visually appealing is quite a bit worse than having substance, but after watching you need to change your eyes, and not just old anime, because even if they look old, some do still look pretty good, but I mean horrrrible art, an example of no substance and horrible art would be girls bravo, disproportional faces and boobs, in an ecchi. |
WhichOneIsKirkOct 2, 2010 5:14 AM
teanut said: Baman said: This most idiotic thing I've read today.refusing to watch something because of the animation is mostly retarded. Which part of it is idiotic? |
| I actually have a thing for older art/animation. Back in the 70s and 80s, the studios aren't afraid to add additional frames in their anime. Meaning I get more intensity, action and movement. I really missed it when backgrounds don't yet talk (animators show background instead of characters conversing or events happening), camera movement don't take a while (today it's zoom in the background for 30 secs , zoom out the room for 20 secs, pan left to the boobs for 30 secs, pan right to the tea cups in 20 secs, whatamIwatching???), and when character don't just stand there for 10 minutes with only their mouth moving and be pretty. I miss the days when sales didn't depend on jiggling boobs but rather than plot and character development. I really don't mind a little fanservice but it must be in moderation. I have nothing against the new just some minor complaints. If things really got better now I don't get why most of us fans flock for the boobs rather than the story. So is this a notion that our tastes have gone far better over the last 20-30 years? In my opinion older anime don't get the respect it deserves. |
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| Well, I don't really mind oldschool anime - as long as the story, OST and characters/character development are good it's all ok :] it's the same with movies - most of my friends always ask me how the hell can I watch movies from the 40s, 50s or even silent movies - since they're 'black and white and don't have cool effects or 3D' O_o lord, people.... *rolls eyes* |
RedSuisei said: Anime is mostly a visual medium, so forcing yourself to watch something that isn't appealing to you is what's really retarded. People don't listen to crap music to hear the lyrics or to decifer it's meaning, do they? They listen because a song has good rhythm and sounds appealing. The lyrics and meaning are just part of it.teanut said: Baman said: This most idiotic thing I've read today.refusing to watch something because of the animation is mostly retarded. Which part of it is idiotic? |
Earth gets angry after a kick in the face. |
RedSuisei said: teanut said: Baman said: This most idiotic thing I've read today.refusing to watch something because of the animation is mostly retarded. Which part of it is idiotic? You don't watch anime just for the animation,do you even know the meaning of the word anime?..it mean to give a drawing life,with expressions and so on..but tell me how can you give fictional character life if it's not supported by a good background story,with which thanks to that..you can sympathize with the character and even grow with him..and you will still remember him for many years,and thus becoming a legend...yo know a certain man said "The only way to become immortals is to be remembered by your deeds for eternity"..this was Julius Caesar...the greater your deeds were the more you will be remembered.Tell me how many recent animes which only focused on animation,can you say for sure you remembered the plot if they were any,or even the characters names without having to think about it.... To animate is to give life not only to draw^^ |
teanut said: forcing yourself to watch something that isn't appealing to you is what's really retarded. Yeah it's retarded, that's why I don't like a show with no substance all flash since it's not appealing to me. At least, since I don't really care whether the art is old or new, and I'm more interested in the story and characters, even old anime can be appealing to me, in fact I'm more forcing myself to watch something stupid with no substance but modern animation than something with good story and characters but old animation @DrkShinobi: I agree with you on that. |
| I find a lot of old stuff to be very entertaining, it's like people who base a game on the graphics, and tend to only like SHOOTAN games, just because they're the most aesthetically pleasing. I can understand the problem, though, although I really like the Daicon animations, I tried to go back and watch Daicon IV again, and it's kind of hard to get into it with that art. |
| My current anime list is grossly, out of date, just so you know. skullhunterj said: if u expect me to put on my working writing skill on forums like this...think again, Grammer Nazi!!! I hate people. |
| Well it's normal. Young folks don't like old stuff... The same thing happens with movies and music but later some of them change their mind... |
 |
Saygram said: Well it's normal. Young folks don't like old stuff... The same thing happens with movies and music but later some of them change their mind... I am a fan of old movies though, especially 1940's film noir, but I like the new stuff. It all has to do with preferences, not so much with the age of the viewer. |
| There are always exceptions. |
|
| Like Video Games. It's all about the quality and the design. That's what it's mostly is in the new generation of entertainment. I think... |
Kairen said: Like Video Games. It's all about the quality and the design. That's what it's mostly is in the new generation of entertainment. I think... Like Final Fantasy XIII? All graphics, nothing else. |
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