| So we've been talking about it and both sides going back and forth how about a poll, if you don't know the subject... Well then you should be more active. |
CitizenGeekAug 2, 2008 5:47 AM
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| well you should add the option Who cares! XD |
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| Well seeing how it's been going on for a while, it's time to make a decision and move on. For FF7 reference that seems must be put in a spoiler... |
gunbladekid09Jan 31, 2008 4:58 AM
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| One does not have to be gay to be attracted to members of the same sex. It's hardly an on-off thing; there's shades of gray inbetween. And, regarding Seriously, there's not enough evidence for either a "YES!" or a "NO!". That much is obvious looking at he (surprisingly heated) debate that's been raging. And I don't think there was too much of an attraction between Shinji and Rei, not as much as between Shinji and Asuka at least. Rei scared the bejeesus out of Shinji! Also, let's not forget it's filled with low-level freudian ideas; Oedipus complexes and whatnot. So, in that sense, he's less fucked up because of his eventual (more so than his attraction to Kaworu) mother-attraction. And oi, gunbladekid09, that needed a spoiler, no matter how spoiled it's already been ~.^ |
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| Alrighty then I'll put it in some spoiler tags. |
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| Good boy! *pats on head* |
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| Yes. |
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Kaiserpingvin said: That much is obvious looking at the (surprisingly heated) debate that's been raging. The reason its so heated is partially because im trolling everyone so hard and so well, lulz. |
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Bad boy! |
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| He was not gay, that's for sure, if anything, he would have to be Bi, but as many others have said before me, I think his reactions towards Kaworu was because of Kaworu's unusually friendly (and awkward) behaviour. |
cixelsiDmAI said: Shinji is not gay... if you remember in Death of Evangelion he "found himself" to Asuka in the emergency room.... plus he likes her and she likes him... they just show it in a weird way FAP FAP FAP it wasnt an emergency room btw, it was just a hospital room, i doubt that she'd STILL be in the emergency room at that point and not just in a normal room. TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG Anyway, i dont disagree with you, but im sure someone will mention the fact that just because he faps to tits doesnt mean he couldnt still be bi. But all bi means is GAY, so if the possibility that he's bi exists then that means he's possibly gay, cuz the two are the same. CANT BE BI WITHOUT BEING GAY! Shinji's made of fail and lose anyway, I think his sexuality is unimportant seeing as how he wont get any from anyone either way. |
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TallonKarrde23 said: But all bi means is GAY, so if the possibility that he's bi exists then that means he's possibly gay, cuz the two are the same. CANT BE BI WITHOUT BEING GAY! What are you talking about? Do you really understand what the term bisexual means? |
| Your argument is circular and paradoxical, Tallon. But meh. |
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| Indeed, TallonKarrde23, you are nothing more than an irritating distraction from interesting discussion at this stage, plus you've continued to use offensive and unnecessary language despite the fact I asked you not to. And you seem to take pride in your trolling. You're out :) Baman said: He was not gay, that's for sure, if anything, he would have to be Bi, but as many others have said before me, I think his reactions towards Kaworu was because of Kaworu's unusually friendly (and awkward) behaviour. That's fair enough ... but I just have trouble buying that Hideaki Anno would present it all as being romantic in nature (naked in a shower, bedrooms, blushing, Shinji waiting for Kaworu just as someone who had a crush on someone else would wait ...) and the fact that he would give an interview on the subject to a shonen-ai magazine (see the back of chapter 8 of the Eva manga for more info on this JUNÉ interview) if it was intended as conveying Shinji's receptiveness to platonic friendship. Also, there's so much suggestive official merchandise and artwork and spin-offs like Angelic Days shows an awareness of Shinji's attraction to Kaworu. It all just doesn't fit with the "platonic" interpretation, does it? |
| When you are fighting inside a giant bio mech against giant monsters that are first to kill you and then end the world,knowing every day may be your last, lets face it your gonna take whatever you can get, whenever you can get it, of whomever you can get it from. Kudos to him nobody wants to die a vergin, you only live once get it while its hot. |
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| Look up Kinsey's Heterosexual-Homosexual Rating Scale "Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual. The world is not to be divided into sheep and goats. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories... The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects. While emphasising the continuity of the gradations between exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual histories, it has seemed desirable to develop some sort of classification which could be based on the relative amounts of heterosexual and homosexual experience or response in each history... An individual may be assigned a position on this scale, for each period in his life.... A seven-point scale comes nearer to showing the many gradations that actually exist." (Kinsey, et al. (1948). pp. 639, 656)" I would say Shinji's around a 2 on that scale. |
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| A sensible, if too numeric solution. A minor question - what does a 2 entail? Which direction does the scale go, that is. |
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Kaiserpingvin said: 0- Exclusively heterosexual with no homosexual A sensible, if too numeric solution. A minor question - what does a 2 entail? Which direction does the scale go, that is. 1- Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual 2- Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual 3- Equally heterosexual and homosexual 4- Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual 5- Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual 6- Exclusively homosexual Meaning he's mostly strait but can be gay if he wants. |
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ThisNameLies said: Kaiserpingvin said: 0- Exclusively heterosexual with no homosexual A sensible, if too numeric solution. A minor question - what does a 2 entail? Which direction does the scale go, that is. 1- Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual 2- Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual 3- Equally heterosexual and homosexual 4- Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual 5- Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual 6- Exclusively homosexual Meaning he's mostly strait but can be gay if he wants. Hm. I liked this one. I finally have a word for my sexuality. "One point five". |
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| Hmmm... not sure i'd call him "happy"... but i don't think he's normal either... the kid's got a lot of screws loose... wouldn't have been surprised to see sumthin' even more grose out of him ( |
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| i say Shinji's not gay nor bi, he just acted the way he did cuz at the time someone was there for him and cared about him. |
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| This thread made me lol so hard because the meaning was implied |
| This was a big conversation ten years ago..... bottom line is that sexuality isn't really a subject that becomes important to the characters while we watch them during the action scene's. Shinji is not gay, I'm sorry I don't have the source to prove this anymore. Not that it should be hard to figure out. |
| Kind regards Sidoen  |
| Not gay, only timid to girls |
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| I think lots of people are misunderstanding the question posed in a massive way. The question is not whether Shinji was "gay" (he obviously was not; his attraction to Asuka is very clear proof of this. D'uh!) but whether his attraction to Kaworu was of a sexual nature. Being a male and being sexually attracted to another male does not automatically make one completely homosexual or even bisexual. It could just be that a male is sexually attracted to one other male, and may never feel such an attraction to another male again etc. It is absolutely, plainly clear and obviously hinted at that Shinji is attracted to Kaworu sexually in episode 24 (the touching of the hands, the regular blushing from Shinji, they share a shower together, they sleep in the same room etc.) but this does not make Shinji 100% gay; why is this such a difficult concept to comprehend? |
CitizenGeekAug 13, 2008 11:00 AM
| Because; I like to make difficult threads? |
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| Well Kaworu is an angel, and loves Shinji in that family sorta way, so if Shinji said he loves Kaworu then it'd be like loving Jesus, which of course doesn't mean you want to penetrate him... This thread is really kinda stupid. And the whole gay/bi argument. Being bi is like being straight and gay at the same time, obviously. To be bi you must be a bit gay and a bit straight. It's that black and white, really. And also, bi people generally go through phases of which gender they prefer, it's not like in teen comedy films, one year they might be straight for the whole year and then they might turn gay for a while. *Edit* Oh and one last thing; 'ThisNameLies' I don't think an experiment done in 1948 would be that relevant to today's society. Homosexuality was still illegal in a lot of places back then. People's views and perceptions of sexuality change over time and surely we're in a far more enlightened state right now. |
karasawaNov 6, 2008 4:00 PM
| Get a life and stop reading my signature... |
karasawa said: Well Kaworu is an angel, and loves Shinji in that family sorta way, so if Shinji said he loves Kaworu then it'd be like loving Jesus, which of course doesn't mean you want to penetrate him... Eh, except Hideaki Anno explicitly makes it absolutely clear through hint after hint after hint that Shinji is sexually attracted to Kaworu. Whether Kaworu is sexually attracted to Shinji is largely unanswerable because we don't know anything else about Kaworu and he's not human. And the whole gay/bi argument. Being bi is like being straight and gay at the same time, obviously. To be bi you must be a bit gay and a bit straight. It's that black and white, really. And also, bi people generally go through phases of which gender they prefer, it's not like in teen comedy films, one year they might be straight for the whole year and then they might turn gay for a while. I'm not going to pretend I know how bisexuality works; I don't. But I'm pretty sure it's not just "black and white", much like almost everything that relates to the human psyche. Besides, getting bogged down with labels is just distracting the issue. Oh and one last thing; 'ThisNameLies' I don't think an experiment done in 1948 would be that relevant to today's society. Homosexuality was still illegal in a lot of places back then. People's views and perceptions of sexuality change over time and surely we're in a far more enlightened state right now. Kinsey's findings are disputed to a great degree nowadays, so I agree that discarding them as factually accurate is a good idea. |
| Shinji was not attracted to him sexually, it was just a man crush. |
| I don't think Shinji was sexual attracted to Kaworu. He just thought he found a friend who understood him to the depth of his soul. There's nothing sexual about it. |
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| i dont believe that he was attracted to him personally but he mite not have even been sure himself exactly i mean he was only like 14-15 |
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| No he was not sexualiy atracted to him. Shinji was never shown affection from any male figure in his life, and then when Kaworu told him he loved him That kind of messed with his head. Shinji had a thing for Rei because she reminded him of his mother but he was attracted to Auska I think they loved each other but because of Auska's mother being a nut job and Shinji's father being who he was they both had no idea how to tell the other how they felt. the touching of the hands, the regular blushing from Shinji, they share a shower together, they sleep in the same room etc. That is not uncommon behavior I just do not see it. If you read Angelic Days you can see that Kaworu was attracted to Shinji but the feelings were not returned in that way, he cared for Kaworu but there was nothing sexual about his feelings for him. |
CrackerSenseiAug 14, 2009 7:09 AM
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| A lot of the arguments made in favour of Shinji not being attracted to Kaworu sexually (i.e. those arguments that are reasonable and not based on a silly affinity for ShinjixAsuka or based on some kind of homophobia) are compelling. That it was a man crush, that Shinji was just reacting to getting affection from a male for what is possibly the first time in his life, etc. They're all pretty rational. However, I have to disagree because I cannot make the leaps of logic that such explanations seemingly make. For example, I cannot imagine that all of the sexual imagery (and showering together, sharing the same room, holding hands, the blushing may not be sexual on their own, but when there is a consistent stream of sexual images like that, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say Anno was trying to tell us something). I simply cannot believe that Hideaki Anno was trying to portray a platonic, if slightly confused, relationship by using such obviously overt sexual imagery. Basically, those who oppose my viewpoint, that Shinji was sexually attracted to Kaworu, are saying that Hideaki Anno wanted to convey a platonic relationship by making it seem like it was anything but platonic. |
| Reasons: 1. Hideaki Anno called Shinji a metaphor of himself, and Hideaki Anno, as far as we know, isn't gay. 2. Hideaki Anno said Kawrou, whose far more leaning in that pair, wasn't gay. 3. Everything Shinji did or said can be explained by his concurrent position and mentality, and even platonic versions of love many people seem to think doesn't exist. * "Shinji" ironically evokes the words for "truth" or "to believe" and can also mean "divine child." Shinji's name is even punned on in Rebuild 1.0; Misato exhorts Gendou to "believe in his own son", invoking of course the word shinji. * "Rei" can mean, among other things, "zero," "ghost" and "cold." * "Yui" puns on Rei, of course and, by Word Of God, on the word "yui" meaning "the only one." * "Gendou" is "limit" or "boundary." * "Ikari" uses the character for "anchor" (part of the nautical theme), but with a different character would be "wrath" or "anger." * "Nagisa" contains the characters for " messenger" and, with different kanji, can mean "shore." * The Japanese word given to the Angels, "shito," actually means "apostle" or "messenger" (which is the meaning of the original Greek word that became "angel" in English). It also sounds very close to the Japanese word for "person" or "human being," "hito", hinting at one of the deep secrets of the series. * The Angels' appearances and attacks are based on their names: for example, Sandalphon, the angel of embryos, starts off as an embryo in a volcano; Arael is the angel of birds; Iruel, who's beaten with music, is the angel of music; Kaworu aka Tabris is the angel of free will. * "Evangelion" comes from "eüangélion", the Anglicanized version of the Greek word meaning "gospel" or "good news", which has led the series' title to sometimes be interpreted as "New Century Gospel" or "New Beginning Gospel". |
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| On top of all the overt and consistent sexual imagery in ep. 24 of the series, we also see Shinji in what, for all accounts and purposes, resembles sexual bliss when he sees Giant Naked Kaowru in End of Evangelion. Does the majority that rejects the idea of Shinji having a sexual attraction to Kaworu really think that Hideaki Anno is just using all of this sexual imagery to portray a platonic relationship? :s CrackerSensei said: Reasons: 1. Hideaki Anno called Shinji a metaphor of himself, and Hideaki Anno, as far as we know, isn't gay. Hideaki Anno was never the pilot of a giant biomech that contained the soul of his dead mother, either, but I don't think anyone doubts that Shinji was such a pilot? And anyway, how many times does it have to be said that no one is claiming that Shinji is gay? I've lost track of how many times that point has been made. The question is whether Shinji was sexually attracted to Kaworu or not. 2. Hideaki Anno said Kawrou, whose far more leaning in that pair, wasn't gay. Where did he say this? :s But, in any case, it doesn't matter because as far as we know, Kaworu was not a human and it would be silly to assume human sexuality would apply to an alien. Also, no one is claiming that Kaworu is gay and it doesn't matter whether he is or not because that has nothing to do with the question. |
| I think he wasn't attracted to him in that way. Because of his withdrawn personality and Kaworu's out going friendly personality I think it was just such an unusual experience for Shinji that he ended being really close to him is all. It was maybe on the borderline but by no means all the way there. |
| The only reason that Shinji gets so attached to Kaworu is to symbolize how emotionally broken people will develop a blind and unreasonable attachment to anyone/anything that gives them a cause to (a love which turns out to not be real). It has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality. Plus, Asuka + Shinji in cannon, he can't be gay (I guess he could still be bi, but there is no reason to believe that he is). |
| The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth |
| I think Shinji saw him as a sort of father figure |
Take care of yourself |
Link_of_Hyrule said: The only reason that Shinji gets so attached to Kaworu is to symbolize how emotionally broken people will develop a blind and unreasonable attachment to anyone/anything that gives them a cause to (a love which turns out to not be real). It has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality. Plus, Asuka + Shinji in cannon, he can't be gay (I guess he could still be bi, but there is no reason to believe that he is). ^^ this, shinji aint gay asuka and rei just won't give him any |
The best anime is the Road to El Dorado |
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