Reply to Lucifrost
@flammeur
The low scores are the original scores. They increased regularly over the past couple of months and have been returned to normal. It's possible bots were involved. I wish the admins would put out an official statement, because it's basically gaslighting if they pretend that nothing happened.
https://myanimelist.net/stacks/44765
The low scores are the original scores. They increased regularly over the past couple of months and have been returned to normal. It's possible bots were involved. I wish the admins would put out an official statement, because it's basically gaslighting if they pretend that nothing happened.
https://myanimelist.net/stacks/44765
| @Lucifrost If you look at the scores individually it was just the score average from all users independently from who scored and if the anime was in watching, completed, dropped, etc... It was a very logical score system so there's no way that MAL was virtually increasing them. Now you may be right that bots were involved, I saw a lot of people talking about it too but how are they spotted by the scoring system, does mal have a list or did MAL made the bot accounts themselves (for what reason would they do that???). In the end it's very frustrating that we had no official statement about it and that the scoring system became weighted in a way or another, if they published the new scoring algorithm it would help a lot but with the trend of hiding the algorithms for social network nowadays we may never have a clear answer. |
| If my portion of anime seen ever gets lower than 10% of the database, consider me dead. |
Reply to Darkonius
@YoshiYogurt
There are three things that are annoying about the change.
1. This makes the whole thing look weird and disorienting because of how different the style is, as if the two parts aren't actually the same section - but they are. The "big" style is instead consistent with the unrelated character and creator sections, that are separated by the rest of the relations and then a row of MxJ ads from their design "sibling".
2. The "important" relations are not in a list but a two-column design, making them harder to parse as you have to check the type for each one and then see what the entry is, while not offering any real value in the small preview images provided. It's the same issue as with everything that's not a straight list.
3. This means a lot of extra clicks, and because it hides some of the most important relations because they're not deemed important by default (e.g. Macross: Do You Remember Love is the most important relation to Macross, and it's in the dropdown, while decades-later novelizations that nobody has read are featured in the big section.), it'll lead to confusion, especially among newer users. Not everyone will always go out of their way to check all relations, especially when they're now more hidden.
Now I agree that the previous design was not great, just being a big run-on of titles in each category, and I think that the new one-per-row compact style with proper release order is much more readable and intuitive, while adding new information (show type). It's just unfortunate that it's ruined by the "important" relations section that dominates the section now while not at all fitting into it. If it was all the more compact style, this would be a universally positive change, but as it is, it's self-sabotaged.
So I'd recommend just changing the whole thing to the new compact style, leaving it expanded (at least up to a bigger size, maybe 10-20 entries - 4 isn't a lot, and in the compact style 8-10 titles will fit into the space of 4 big ones, depending on relation type, and it'd still be considerably smaller than some of the large relation lists in the old style). Those changes would make it way more useable, and the only real cost is no images that nobody needed anyway.
There are three things that are annoying about the change.
- The inconsistent design style,
- the bad readability of the "important" relations,
- and the fact that you have to fold out to see all relations.
1. This makes the whole thing look weird and disorienting because of how different the style is, as if the two parts aren't actually the same section - but they are. The "big" style is instead consistent with the unrelated character and creator sections, that are separated by the rest of the relations and then a row of MxJ ads from their design "sibling".
2. The "important" relations are not in a list but a two-column design, making them harder to parse as you have to check the type for each one and then see what the entry is, while not offering any real value in the small preview images provided. It's the same issue as with everything that's not a straight list.
3. This means a lot of extra clicks, and because it hides some of the most important relations because they're not deemed important by default (e.g. Macross: Do You Remember Love is the most important relation to Macross, and it's in the dropdown, while decades-later novelizations that nobody has read are featured in the big section.), it'll lead to confusion, especially among newer users. Not everyone will always go out of their way to check all relations, especially when they're now more hidden.
Now I agree that the previous design was not great, just being a big run-on of titles in each category, and I think that the new one-per-row compact style with proper release order is much more readable and intuitive, while adding new information (show type). It's just unfortunate that it's ruined by the "important" relations section that dominates the section now while not at all fitting into it. If it was all the more compact style, this would be a universally positive change, but as it is, it's self-sabotaged.
So I'd recommend just changing the whole thing to the new compact style, leaving it expanded (at least up to a bigger size, maybe 10-20 entries - 4 isn't a lot, and in the compact style 8-10 titles will fit into the space of 4 big ones, depending on relation type, and it'd still be considerably smaller than some of the large relation lists in the old style). Those changes would make it way more useable, and the only real cost is no images that nobody needed anyway.
| @Darkerplayer Yeah, especially the last part is what I wish for the most. Just show everything in the compact style. In fact, I already wrote a script for that since it bothered me so much, it requires you to have the tampermonkey extension installed in your browser, but that's pretty much it. Feel free to use it. |
Reply to karton_realista
We finally have LN and Mangas indicated properly on the anime page, although I still don't like the "alternative version" crap on manga/ln pages for the same series. It's a manga adaptation of a light novel, not an alternative version. An alternative version would be let's say a reboot or a retelling from another perspective, not an adaptation. I like the images though, it looks nice on the page.
Also it would be cool if there was a LN List on one's userpage and the "chapters" counter disappeared from LN entries as it's completely useless (who thought that was a good idea? LNs don't have a global chapter count listed anywhere. They start like "Vol. 5, ch. 1", who knows how many chapters have there been in preceding volumes?). But hell will sooner freeze over than those common sense things get implemented.
Also it would be cool if there was a LN List on one's userpage and the "chapters" counter disappeared from LN entries as it's completely useless (who thought that was a good idea? LNs don't have a global chapter count listed anywhere. They start like "Vol. 5, ch. 1", who knows how many chapters have there been in preceding volumes?). But hell will sooner freeze over than those common sense things get implemented.
karton_realista said: Also it would be cool if there was a LN List on one's userpage and the "chapters" counter disappeared from LN entries as it's completely useless (who thought that was a good idea? LNs don't have a global chapter count listed anywhere. They start like "Vol. 5, ch. 1", who knows how many chapters have there been in preceding volumes?). But hell will sooner freeze over than those common sense things get implemented. Many manga don't have their chapters listed anywhere either. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to flammeur
@Lucifrost
If you look at the scores individually it was just the score average from all users independently from who scored and if the anime was in watching, completed, dropped, etc... It was a very logical score system so there's no way that MAL was virtually increasing them.
Now you may be right that bots were involved, I saw a lot of people talking about it too but how are they spotted by the scoring system, does mal have a list or did MAL made the bot accounts themselves (for what reason would they do that???).
In the end it's very frustrating that we had no official statement about it and that the scoring system became weighted in a way or another, if they published the new scoring algorithm it would help a lot but with the trend of hiding the algorithms for social network nowadays we may never have a clear answer.
If you look at the scores individually it was just the score average from all users independently from who scored and if the anime was in watching, completed, dropped, etc... It was a very logical score system so there's no way that MAL was virtually increasing them.
Now you may be right that bots were involved, I saw a lot of people talking about it too but how are they spotted by the scoring system, does mal have a list or did MAL made the bot accounts themselves (for what reason would they do that???).
In the end it's very frustrating that we had no official statement about it and that the scoring system became weighted in a way or another, if they published the new scoring algorithm it would help a lot but with the trend of hiding the algorithms for social network nowadays we may never have a clear answer.
flammeur said: Now you may be right that bots were involved, I saw a lot of people talking about it too but how are they spotted by the scoring system, does mal have a list or did MAL made the bot accounts themselves (for what reason would they do that???). In the end it's very frustrating that we had no official statement about it and that the scoring system became weighted in a way or another, if they published the new scoring algorithm it would help a lot but with the trend of hiding the algorithms for social network nowadays we may never have a clear answer. Where did you see people discussing the rising scores? I'm on MAL every day and thought I was the only one who had noticed. It was frustrating. Presumably, the lower scores are the result of MAL banning bots after discovering hundreds of fake 10/10 scores. MAL hides its algorithm in order to keep it a secret from bots. This is supposed to make it easier to counter those bots. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1824703 |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Darkonius
@flammeur
MAL has used weighted scores for ages, and you should not expect it to agree with the average you calculate from the stats page of a show. This is not new, and it is mentioned and explained, e.g. in the "How do we rate shows?" link on the Top Anime page, in the hover over a show's score or in the statistics section on the left of the anime page.
Here's the direct link to the explanation:
https://myanimelist.net/info.php?go=topanime
The only changes to it that I can remember are that MAL has started filtering out illegitimate votes, and that around the same time the minimum number of votes was increased to further reduce manipulation. This was like 5 years ago though.
In this specific case, the botting was most likely done with accounts that had their list hidden, so their scores fed into the calculation but only MAL admins could actually see the accounts responsible. It was noticed due to the anomalous score rises since mid-April, and confirmed with data that tracked user numbers and score over time, and it clearly showed unnatural member growth along with unnatural score rise. This information was fed to MAL staff, and presumably they have identified the accounts responsible and have started filtering them out now, which is why most shows returned to scores around or slightly lower than they were in early April 2024. Some shows have had larger rebounds, and it's not quite clear why, but it may have to do with other bots getting filtered as well, or that factors in the weighted calculation have shifted in such a way as to lower the score further. MAL obviously keeps secrets when it comes to detecting and filtering bots, so we'll likely never know, but it's presumably something like this, and not an actual change in the scoring formula.
Yes, it can improve, my critique is explicitly pointing out how they can improve it. I hope they change it, but MAL's previous actions when it comes to polarizing changes aren't confidence-inspiring.
I also don't think people are delusional for not liking an update that is worse than the previous implementation in more than one way, even if it is better in other aspects. And it's not like seeing the type of an entry in the related list is all the info one would want to know about an entry, so you'd have to open it anyway, so you aren't even saving that one click (that you invested to open the dropdown).
MAL has used weighted scores for ages, and you should not expect it to agree with the average you calculate from the stats page of a show. This is not new, and it is mentioned and explained, e.g. in the "How do we rate shows?" link on the Top Anime page, in the hover over a show's score or in the statistics section on the left of the anime page.
Here's the direct link to the explanation:
https://myanimelist.net/info.php?go=topanime
The only changes to it that I can remember are that MAL has started filtering out illegitimate votes, and that around the same time the minimum number of votes was increased to further reduce manipulation. This was like 5 years ago though.
In this specific case, the botting was most likely done with accounts that had their list hidden, so their scores fed into the calculation but only MAL admins could actually see the accounts responsible. It was noticed due to the anomalous score rises since mid-April, and confirmed with data that tracked user numbers and score over time, and it clearly showed unnatural member growth along with unnatural score rise. This information was fed to MAL staff, and presumably they have identified the accounts responsible and have started filtering them out now, which is why most shows returned to scores around or slightly lower than they were in early April 2024. Some shows have had larger rebounds, and it's not quite clear why, but it may have to do with other bots getting filtered as well, or that factors in the weighted calculation have shifted in such a way as to lower the score further. MAL obviously keeps secrets when it comes to detecting and filtering bots, so we'll likely never know, but it's presumably something like this, and not an actual change in the scoring formula.
YoshiYogurt said:
It's been out for a day or 2. It can improve.
Everyone who is saying "bad change." is delusional or enjoyed having to open 20 tabs to see if every entry was an OVA/special etc.
It's been out for a day or 2. It can improve.
Everyone who is saying "bad change." is delusional or enjoyed having to open 20 tabs to see if every entry was an OVA/special etc.
Yes, it can improve, my critique is explicitly pointing out how they can improve it. I hope they change it, but MAL's previous actions when it comes to polarizing changes aren't confidence-inspiring.
I also don't think people are delusional for not liking an update that is worse than the previous implementation in more than one way, even if it is better in other aspects. And it's not like seeing the type of an entry in the related list is all the info one would want to know about an entry, so you'd have to open it anyway, so you aren't even saving that one click (that you invested to open the dropdown).
| @Darkerplayer Big thanks for the info and sorry about my ranting. I had been completely unaware of the bot hunting that happened in the last few years, I would have appreciated an announcement about such a big amount of illegitimate accounts discover since it affected so many entries though. |
| If my portion of anime seen ever gets lower than 10% of the database, consider me dead. |
Reply to flammeur
@Darkerplayer Big thanks for the info and sorry about my ranting.
I had been completely unaware of the bot hunting that happened in the last few years, I would have appreciated an announcement about such a big amount of illegitimate accounts discover since it affected so many entries though.
I had been completely unaware of the bot hunting that happened in the last few years, I would have appreciated an announcement about such a big amount of illegitimate accounts discover since it affected so many entries though.
flammeur said: I had been completely unaware of the bot hunting that happened in the last few years, I would have appreciated an announcement about such a big amount of illegitimate accounts discover since it affected so many entries though. I knew about the 2020 bots, but that was then and this is now. A mod even told me earlier this month that I should not worry about bots because the problem was solved 4 years ago and suspicious votes now get "fixed after a few days." This reassurance is so blatantly untrue that I can't imagine any attempt other than to deceive me. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to karton_realista
@Lucifrost I'm not sure you understood what I'm saying. Do you have an example of a manga series where the number given for the chapter isn't the number for the whole series, but internal to the volume? Most manga are released in magazines and later compiled into volumes, which is why they have a chapter number representing the total chapter count for the series.
For example, Gabriel Dropout volume 13 contains chapters 90-97. On the LN side, An Archdemon's Dilemma: How to Love Your Elf Bride volume 13 has a Prologue, chapters 1-4 and an Epilogue. It's pretty obvious which one needs a chapter counter and which one doesn't.
For example, Gabriel Dropout volume 13 contains chapters 90-97. On the LN side, An Archdemon's Dilemma: How to Love Your Elf Bride volume 13 has a Prologue, chapters 1-4 and an Epilogue. It's pretty obvious which one needs a chapter counter and which one doesn't.
karton_realista said: I'm not sure you understood what I'm saying. Do you have an example of a manga series where the number given for the chapter isn't the number for the whole series, but internal to the volume? The exact thing you are describing can be found in the English translation I own of Ranma 1/2. The final volume has chapters #1-#18 followed by a "final chapter." But that's not what I was talking about. I'm talking about manga that have no chapters. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=361583 The whole volume just looks like a single, 200 page chapter. I have seen this in Japanese editions too. Scanlators are left to guess where one chapter ends and another begins, often getting it wrong. |
LucifrostMay 25, 8:48 AM
| その目だれの目？ |
| This is very annoying. Not every link has images and it just clutters each page and makes things uneven. The old way is much preferred. |
| Nice challenge |
 |
Reply to RobbiRobb
@Darkerplayer Yeah, especially the last part is what I wish for the most. Just show everything in the compact style. In fact, I already wrote a script for that since it bothered me so much, it requires you to have the tampermonkey extension installed in your browser, but that's pretty much it. Feel free to use it.
RobbiRobb said: In fact, I already wrote a script for that since it bothered me so much Thanks!! It was driving me insane. |
 |
| Instead of this unnecessary change, do something about the unfunctional search bar. It's been a problem for the longest time. Google finds MAL manga pages more quickly than on your own site. |
coshkunzMay 25, 1:03 PM
Reply to Catalano
I would have liked something like this, why complicate the format?
| @Catalano Anime-Planet's got a nice layout for anime/manga. |
 |
| awful and unnecessary change. I shouldn't have to press a button(more related entries) to see sequels and related anime. Please revert the change or give us options to change how we want it to be like. |
| meh :v |
Reply to RobbiRobb
@Darkerplayer Yeah, especially the last part is what I wish for the most. Just show everything in the compact style. In fact, I already wrote a script for that since it bothered me so much, it requires you to have the tampermonkey extension installed in your browser, but that's pretty much it. Feel free to use it.
| @RobbiRobb you legend thank you very much for sharing this |
| I personally don’t like this update nor see it’s relevancy. I’d prefer such a rather minimalist design without image popping up in between sessions, the entry is already polluted because of how many information is needed to display so why to pollute more of it? Makes no sense in my mind. I’d love to have a way to switch it back to text-only. |
🎃 My MALoween Candy 2024 🎃   🎃 My MALoween Candy 2023 🎃          |
RobbiRobb said: In fact, I already wrote a script for that Thank you, but your script seems to have one small bug. The More videos link is unfortunately missing. |
Reply to DarkDooM2
RobbiRobb said:
In fact, I already wrote a script for that
In fact, I already wrote a script for that
Thank you, but your script seems to have one small bug. The More videos link is unfortunately missing.
| @DarkDooM2 Oh yeah, that uses the same classes... I updated the script, so that should be fixed. Thanks for letting me know! |
| Seems like a good change. I hope the "Justin Cook situation" will eventually be dealt with as well (him being unfairly pinned at the top of every popular anime's staff page because he's a producer at Funimation). |
Kineta said: okay ngl this is genuinely the best fucking update this site has put out since I created an account here.Along with this modification, the type of the related entry is now included. |
| Clicking "Show more" makes sence, but it should be for at least 10+ relations or even more. It really doesn't take up that much space and it's annoying to click it for anime with just 5 relations. |
 |
| I hate this change and would very much like to swap back. I don't want to have to click "Show more" on stuff, and it's way more difficult to find the thing I'm actually looking for now. Most of the time I'm wanting to see the Prequel, and it was always in an easy-to-spot location previously, but now not only does the section visually look the same as the characters & staff sections so I can't scan the page and find it as easily, the actual thing I'm looking for is in a random location; it could be on the right, on the left, or under the fold. Horrible usability. I would be happy if the thumbnail section were gone and I didn't need to click Show More; just list everything like normal. Putting stuff on individual lines is a nice change, but having the thumbnail section at the top sucks. |
MiaAyendeMay 26, 5:46 PM
| This seems to improve readability in many cases, so I think this is a good change overall, however I agree with a lot of people here in that it is bad design to need an extra click to see things that were visible without that click before. A solution to this could be to add an "always show all related entries" option in the site settings so that people, like me, who want to see all the related entries without needing an extra click can set it up to do so and people who want a shorter webpage can keep the setting off. The Visual Novel Database and Rate Your Music both have settings to auto expand the full list of releases for an entry. Since those settings are similar to what I'm referring to here, they could be used as a model for the "always show all related entries" option. Also, thank you so much for putting the episode videos section lower on the page. People are going to be spoiled on shows less now. Kineta said: For now, Manga <-> Novel relations will be still be listed under Alternative Version (without a thumbnail). In the future, we'll be making it possible for these relations to also appear rightfully as Adaptations, and will migrate the existing data. We also recognize that although many anime are adapted from light novels, the manga versions or "comicalizations" of these titles are often still more widely read. Thus, we plan to make it easier to move between Anime <-> Manga entries of Light Novel sources in the future, as well. I'm probably being overly optimistic, but I really really hope that these two paragraphs are hinting that the site is going to finally separate novels from manga so that there is a novel list and dedicated novel rankings instead of the medium of novels being erroneously conflated with the medium of manga on the site. If that is coming soon, that would be a dream come true for me. |
SleepteinerMay 27, 4:26 PM
| I have very mixed feelings about the new Related Entries design. I love the addition of thumbnails for related entries, but the rest feels a bit like a downgrade: The fact that prequels, sequels, and adaptations are listed in 2 columns but everything below is single column feels awkward. When reading through the related entries, I always catch myself jumping from the first Prequels/Sequels/Adaptations column directly to the other related entries, skipping over the second column. There is almost no gap between Prequels/Sequels/Adaptations and the rest, so my eyes just automatically keep reading top to bottom. My head just doesn't know in which order I should read it. I have no idea what's the best way to fix this. Having the whole list be single column would be great (although it would take more space), but it could also help to just visually seperate Prequels/Sequels/Adaptations from the other relations. It's not visible enough that there are hidden entries if the anime/manga has more than 4 relations. With the current design I sometimes just assume that there are only 4 relations, because there is nothing that reminds me to press the "More related entries" button. The button is too far on the right while everything else is aligned left, I have to actively look for the button or I just forget that it's there. It might be helpful to have something like a "..." or a fade out to indicate that there are more entries than we already see. I know that it's the same design as for OP/EDs, but there the button is much closer to the information I'm looking for because it's directly below the list for the EDs. Please increase the limit of relations before they're collapsed. I understand that it's important to limit how much space they take up if it's One Piece with 70+ relations, but relations are very important information and I don't always want to click a button to see them. Please increase the number to at least 10. It's a really nice update for anime/manga with 2 or less relations. Having thumbnails feels great, it's more readable (especially since all the names for the other entries are still romaji and not English) Thanks for the update, but please consider making some adjustments to the design. edit 2024-06-22: I originally really liked the idea of thumbnails, but the more I use the new design the less I like it. The thumbnails look cool, but Prequels/Sequels/Adaptations being treated as one single category and being listed as two columns destorys readability. At least the new design for Alternative Versions etc would be a nice improvement, but the fact that everything after 4 relations is automatically collapsed completely ruins it too. |
VaturnaJun 22, 4:03 AM
| Great improvement for readability in the compact list and it saves you click throughs by showing the entry type up front, although collapsing for more than 4 entries is a bit overzealous. And then there's the travesty up top, with a grid instead of a list like the rest, which hinders skimming, haphazard ordering and thumbnails so small they are completely pointless. A good idea ruined by bad execution; par for the course for MAL sadly. Hopefully it gets fixed but I'm not holding my breath. |
 |
| MAL finally fixed the relations section to the standards of userscripts. Showing the type is also a good change. However, the thumbnails are just clutter and unnecessary. @RobbiRobb thanks for the script, man. You're a hero. |
on | @RobbiRobb It doesn't work for https://myanimelist.net/anime.php?id=51215 links so I've just changed the first match to https://myanimelist.net/anime* for now. EDIT: Actually should probably add another match for https://myanimelist.net/anime.php?id=* instead incase it breaks anything :/ If you're wondering how I got those links, they are the ones given when navigating from MAL watch history. |
MysticalMagicMay 30, 11:21 AM
| |
Reply to MysticalMagic
@RobbiRobb It doesn't work for https://myanimelist.net/anime.php?id=51215 links so I've just changed the first match to https://myanimelist.net/anime* for now.
EDIT: Actually should probably add another match for https://myanimelist.net/anime.php?id=* instead incase it breaks anything :/
If you're wondering how I got those links, they are the ones given when navigating from MAL watch history.
EDIT: Actually should probably add another match for https://myanimelist.net/anime.php?id=* instead incase it breaks anything :/
If you're wondering how I got those links, they are the ones given when navigating from MAL watch history.
| @MysticalMagic Hm yeah, it seems like it's not working there. I pushed the small fix for those cases, so in theory tampermonkey should realize that there is an update and automatically notifiy and update the script for everyone who uses at least version 0.2. Thanks for letting me know ^^ |
Reply to RobbiRobb
@MysticalMagic Hm yeah, it seems like it's not working there. I pushed the small fix for those cases, so in theory tampermonkey should realize that there is an update and automatically notifiy and update the script for everyone who uses at least version 0.2. Thanks for letting me know ^^
| @RobbiRobb It doesn't because you didn't set the // @downloadURL |
| |
Reply to MysticalMagic
@RobbiRobb It doesn't because you didn't set the // @downloadURL
| @MysticalMagic Huh, guess I misunderstood how this works then, I thought I only needed the updateURL. Well, downloadURL has now been added, but I assume it won't work for a lot of people... |
| I've encountered a bug with the new related entries section. When this update was announced I found many manga entries with missing relation sections (sometimes the section was there and only some of the relations were missing). They appeared a bit later so I thought the DB pages were still in the process of being updated. But today it happened again: I found a sequel to a manga I had read and clicked the prequel link in the related entries section. But the prequel did not have any related entries section at all. I checked the cache and the section was there yesterday. I waited a few minutes and then the section suddenly appeared. I checked some other entries and found another one that had a missing section before, then it appeared and now it's gone again (screenshot of the entry as of me writing this - it might appear again in a few minutes). There are currently also several other entries with missing relation sections which were there before. It's not a problem with an extension, I also checked in other browsers, same problem. Also same when logged in/out. Not sure what's going on here but it seems the section is sometimes disappearing which makes the feature quite unreliable and it would be great if this could be looked into. Edit: It's still happening, relation sections are disappearing and reappearing after a while (even for the same entries), so definitely not just a one-time problem. |
LunaJun 1, 1:23 AM
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