| So, yes, I'm a big enjoyer of BL, but my question is, am I the only one that finds it incredibly difficult to find an actual good BL that doesn't have some sort of weird or disgusting part to it. I loved given, Sasaki and Miyano, The Stranger By The Shore, and recently Tadaima, Okaeri, but those are really the only ones that I found really great and perfect because they were...normal if that makes sense? Don't know, I feel that anime just really fetishized a lot of gay romance, and we get the toxic, gross and weird shit like Super Lovers, Hitorijime My Hero, Mask Denshi, Junjo Romantica and Yarichin☆Bitch Club. The things like the large age gaps, pedophilia, incestual things, and toxic manipulation that are all too common just make me disappointed in the genre of BL right now - mainly in anime. Opinions on the genre and it's current state? |
| What if we watched Evangelion in the sewer...? |
| I find it funny you listed Tadaima, Okaeri as normal when it has literal male pregnancy and birthing in the world building as if that isn't weird Lol Some things you think are "normal" others would find "weird and disgusting". Likewise some things you find "weird and disgusting" others find enjoyable or at least tolerable. So problem is you just aren't finding what you personally like as much as you want. I only recently started watching BL to be open minded trying new things. Having just watched recent stuff only I didn't find anything that really bothered me so far. I liked Sasaki and Miyano okay, I liked CherryMagic aside from the pacing at end, while not BL explicitly I liked My New Boss is Goofy and I have been enjoying Tadaima Okaeri. |
traed said: I find it funny you listed Tadaima, Okaeri as normal when it has literal male pregnancy and birthing in the world building as if that isn't weird Lol Some things you think are "normal" others would find "weird and disgusting". Likewise some things you find "weird and disgusting" others find enjoyable or at least tolerable. So problem is you just aren't finding what you personally like as much as you want. I only recently started watching BL to be open minded trying new things. Having just watched recent stuff only I didn't find anything that really bothered me so far. I liked Sasaki and Miyano okay, I liked CherryMagic aside from the pacing at end, while not BL explicitly I liked My New Boss is Goofy and I have been enjoying Tadaima Okaeri. Yeah but in Tadaima, Okaeri that’s just part of the ‘verse’, and yeah, it’s different, but it’s not like toxic between the two for the relationship, or something to do with a weird age gap or anything. Yeah people have their own tastes - and that’s perfectly fine - just find it weird that there’s barely any ‘normal’ romance compared to the massive ratio of weird stuff in the fandom. But yeah Tadaima, Okaeri and Sasaki and Miyano are both excellent and well worth it - and I forgot about Cherry Magic - that one was fun as well |
| What if we watched Evangelion in the sewer...? |
| I'm still fairly new to Japanese boys' love content, and I want to explore more of it. I love the concept of the genre, romantic and sexual relationships between cute guys? Sign me up. |
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Rhae said: I'm still fairly new to Japanese boys' love content, and I want to explore more of it. I love the concept of the genre, romantic and sexual relationships between cute guys? Sign me up. There are some great ones - just be aware that a large percentage of them are pretty… I’d say ‘unhinged’. Again, if it’s your cup of tea, that’s totally fine, but it’s pretty rare to find a nice wholesome one! The ones that ARE sweet are very amazing! |
| What if we watched Evangelion in the sewer...? |
| BL is very popular in Japan, outside also. Many voice actors give voices to characters from such works such as Toshiyuki Morikawa, he voiced many characters in BL CD dramas and voices one of the main characters in Tadaima, Okaeri. In general I like BL works. Stories and characters there are good and interesting. After reading you feel sense of happiness and lightness. Usually women write BL works, I can name one man who wrotes BL works - https://myanimelist.net/people/21651/Hiromasa_Okujima. I like his works so much and recommend to read them for sure! |
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| Problematic themes in BL aren't the result of gay fetishization, these themes are just as common and present in all other anime genres. I personally feel like they are actually way more common in straight erotica/hentai, but I've never actually done a proper count and comparison of this. Geicomi (falsely known as "bara"), is mainly written by gay men and is targeted towards other gay men, but it's FULL of problematic stuff. Some of Gengoroh Tagame's works are very hard to read and make me feel a bit sick, but I would never say that his use of dark themes comes from gay fetishization, it's just not related. I think the reason why BL is heavily regarded as more problematic is because there aren't actually that many BL adaptations, and the few that exist are usually pretty bad. Honestly, you should probably stick to manga if you're into BL with healthy relationship dynamics. Luckily, there are a lot of interest stacks with works you would probably enjoy on here! |
Reply to patalliro
Problematic themes in BL aren't the result of gay fetishization, these themes are just as common and present in all other anime genres. I personally feel like they are actually way more common in straight erotica/hentai, but I've never actually done a proper count and comparison of this.
Geicomi (falsely known as "bara"), is mainly written by gay men and is targeted towards other gay men, but it's FULL of problematic stuff. Some of Gengoroh Tagame's works are very hard to read and make me feel a bit sick, but I would never say that his use of dark themes comes from gay fetishization, it's just not related.
I think the reason why BL is heavily regarded as more problematic is because there aren't actually that many BL adaptations, and the few that exist are usually pretty bad. Honestly, you should probably stick to manga if you're into BL with healthy relationship dynamics.
Luckily, there are a lot of interest stacks with works you would probably enjoy on here!
Geicomi (falsely known as "bara"), is mainly written by gay men and is targeted towards other gay men, but it's FULL of problematic stuff. Some of Gengoroh Tagame's works are very hard to read and make me feel a bit sick, but I would never say that his use of dark themes comes from gay fetishization, it's just not related.
I think the reason why BL is heavily regarded as more problematic is because there aren't actually that many BL adaptations, and the few that exist are usually pretty bad. Honestly, you should probably stick to manga if you're into BL with healthy relationship dynamics.
Luckily, there are a lot of interest stacks with works you would probably enjoy on here!
| @patalliro, about bara you are right, but in usual BL works there are also many serious themes and problems, not so many but still anyway. Yes, there is a heavy lack in BL adaptations and they are not so good. I prefer healthy BL relationships, thanks for the info! |
|
| Have you ever wondered that the genre isn't intended for you? Yes. BL is originally something designed for a group of Japanese female fans in japan who refer to themselves as 'fujoshi'. And this group of people actively like/seek the things you find disturbing such as large age gaps, toxic, manipulative etc. The BL genre isn't made by the diversity section of some western company to be more inclusive. It literally exists for fetishization. Japan does not give a solitary care about western morality/concepts. |
Reply to Multilynx
I too am a huge lover of BL. As there’s not much else for us queer people, we have to take what we can get many times. I have two bookshelves full of BL manga and I own many on physical media.
Firstly, your post comes across as being quite judgmental about what you deem to be “normal” or not. Your normal does not necessarily constitute someone else’s normal. I don’t know what country you’re in, but keep in mind that Japanese culture is different from others and all manga and anime is made first and foremost for the Japanese audience. Also, the legal age of consent in Japan was 13 from 1907 until June 2023 when it was raised to 16. There are other countries around the world (including the US) where the age of consent is 13 or there are exceptions for the age of consent down to the age of 13. I’m not saying it’s right or ethical in the 21st century. I’m just stating the facts.
BL has changed a lot over the years. Even Given uses toxic manipulation as well as at least one questionable sex scene. Some of these tropes have died down over the years but BL is mainly written by females for females who want to fetishize taboos. Most manga has some type of fetishization, whether it’s straight or gay. We all have our kinks. I have never seen or heard of a BL anime with pedophilia, so I am unsure what you watched.
Keep in mind too that all of the anime you’ve listed are anime adaptations of popular manga. I don’t know of any original BL anime. And the anime adaptations generally follow the manga. Personally, I don’t see anything so wrong with any of the anime you mentioned for you to classify them as bad or worse. Yarichin☆Bitch Club is rather out there but it’s not bad.
As for the state of the BL genre, it’s alive and well. There are more BL manga and anime adaptations than ever. The US continues to see improvement in the availability of BL manga. It’s disappointing that the Ten Count anime was canceled but we have Twilight Out of Focus to look forward to with the summer season and the third Given movie arrives in the fall (in Japan). I’m not aware of any other anime adaptations but hopefully more will be announced soon.
Firstly, your post comes across as being quite judgmental about what you deem to be “normal” or not. Your normal does not necessarily constitute someone else’s normal. I don’t know what country you’re in, but keep in mind that Japanese culture is different from others and all manga and anime is made first and foremost for the Japanese audience. Also, the legal age of consent in Japan was 13 from 1907 until June 2023 when it was raised to 16. There are other countries around the world (including the US) where the age of consent is 13 or there are exceptions for the age of consent down to the age of 13. I’m not saying it’s right or ethical in the 21st century. I’m just stating the facts.
BL has changed a lot over the years. Even Given uses toxic manipulation as well as at least one questionable sex scene. Some of these tropes have died down over the years but BL is mainly written by females for females who want to fetishize taboos. Most manga has some type of fetishization, whether it’s straight or gay. We all have our kinks. I have never seen or heard of a BL anime with pedophilia, so I am unsure what you watched.
Keep in mind too that all of the anime you’ve listed are anime adaptations of popular manga. I don’t know of any original BL anime. And the anime adaptations generally follow the manga. Personally, I don’t see anything so wrong with any of the anime you mentioned for you to classify them as bad or worse. Yarichin☆Bitch Club is rather out there but it’s not bad.
As for the state of the BL genre, it’s alive and well. There are more BL manga and anime adaptations than ever. The US continues to see improvement in the availability of BL manga. It’s disappointing that the Ten Count anime was canceled but we have Twilight Out of Focus to look forward to with the summer season and the third Given movie arrives in the fall (in Japan). I’m not aware of any other anime adaptations but hopefully more will be announced soon.
| @Multilynx You've seen 2 seasons and an OVA of the anime they were referring to. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
| I don't like the genre exactly for the reasons mentioned in the original post. BL often romanticizes abusive and non-consensual relationships as cute and desirable and fans often defend these abusers and rapists by interpreting these scenes as the victim having internalized homophobia and/or being in denial, rape and violence is hardly ever depicted in negative light. The authors add to this shit by showing the victim blushing when he's being violated to give the atmosphere that he secretly wanted it and there are no consequences to these acts, the victim is back and interacting with his rapist/abuser as if these things never happened in the next scene. What really made me hate BL though was its fans, you aren't allowed to criticize such relationships otherwise fujoshis/fudanshis will immediately label you homophobic and I've seen plenty of them going to lengths to prove that their toxic relationship is "representation", and this doesn't come just from straight girls but from gay men as well. Although most of the recent adaptations have been better ones, I didn't like SasaMiya because I'm not fond of fudanshi characters but they had a great relationship, CherryMaho was pretty good too. Given would have been good if not for the sexual assault in the movie. Not fond of unscientific things like omegaverse, I'm only watching it because Toshiyuki Morikawa is voicing a character in it but the relationship depicted so far is a good one. Even so these kind of titles are very few in number and do not represent the entire genre, my overall opinion of the genre will most likely continue to remain negative till its fans stop pushing toxic relationships under the guise of promoting LGBT. |
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| idk about the anime because I mostly read them and majority are just copy paste of each other when it comes to the story. lots of the toxic/weird things are normalized in this genre and it's disappointing. |
 |
Reply to Multilynx
I too am a huge lover of BL. As there’s not much else for us queer people, we have to take what we can get many times. I have two bookshelves full of BL manga and I own many on physical media.
Firstly, your post comes across as being quite judgmental about what you deem to be “normal” or not. Your normal does not necessarily constitute someone else’s normal. I don’t know what country you’re in, but keep in mind that Japanese culture is different from others and all manga and anime is made first and foremost for the Japanese audience. Also, the legal age of consent in Japan was 13 from 1907 until June 2023 when it was raised to 16. There are other countries around the world (including the US) where the age of consent is 13 or there are exceptions for the age of consent down to the age of 13. I’m not saying it’s right or ethical in the 21st century. I’m just stating the facts.
BL has changed a lot over the years. Even Given uses toxic manipulation as well as at least one questionable sex scene. Some of these tropes have died down over the years but BL is mainly written by females for females who want to fetishize taboos. Most manga has some type of fetishization, whether it’s straight or gay. We all have our kinks. I have never seen or heard of a BL anime with pedophilia, so I am unsure what you watched.
Keep in mind too that all of the anime you’ve listed are anime adaptations of popular manga. I don’t know of any original BL anime. And the anime adaptations generally follow the manga. Personally, I don’t see anything so wrong with any of the anime you mentioned for you to classify them as bad or worse. Yarichin☆Bitch Club is rather out there but it’s not bad.
As for the state of the BL genre, it’s alive and well. There are more BL manga and anime adaptations than ever. The US continues to see improvement in the availability of BL manga. It’s disappointing that the Ten Count anime was canceled but we have Twilight Out of Focus to look forward to with the summer season and the third Given movie arrives in the fall (in Japan). I’m not aware of any other anime adaptations but hopefully more will be announced soon.
Firstly, your post comes across as being quite judgmental about what you deem to be “normal” or not. Your normal does not necessarily constitute someone else’s normal. I don’t know what country you’re in, but keep in mind that Japanese culture is different from others and all manga and anime is made first and foremost for the Japanese audience. Also, the legal age of consent in Japan was 13 from 1907 until June 2023 when it was raised to 16. There are other countries around the world (including the US) where the age of consent is 13 or there are exceptions for the age of consent down to the age of 13. I’m not saying it’s right or ethical in the 21st century. I’m just stating the facts.
BL has changed a lot over the years. Even Given uses toxic manipulation as well as at least one questionable sex scene. Some of these tropes have died down over the years but BL is mainly written by females for females who want to fetishize taboos. Most manga has some type of fetishization, whether it’s straight or gay. We all have our kinks. I have never seen or heard of a BL anime with pedophilia, so I am unsure what you watched.
Keep in mind too that all of the anime you’ve listed are anime adaptations of popular manga. I don’t know of any original BL anime. And the anime adaptations generally follow the manga. Personally, I don’t see anything so wrong with any of the anime you mentioned for you to classify them as bad or worse. Yarichin☆Bitch Club is rather out there but it’s not bad.
As for the state of the BL genre, it’s alive and well. There are more BL manga and anime adaptations than ever. The US continues to see improvement in the availability of BL manga. It’s disappointing that the Ten Count anime was canceled but we have Twilight Out of Focus to look forward to with the summer season and the third Given movie arrives in the fall (in Japan). I’m not aware of any other anime adaptations but hopefully more will be announced soon.
| @Multilynx, I am also a huge BL lover. Also would like to see more BL adaptations. |
|
| This is my first time hearing of BL and GL and whatnot I don't want to google it, what is it? |
| The state of the BL genre is quite good. Just because some BL especially Hitorijime My Hero and Yarichin☆Bitch Club deal with topics you don't like, doesn't gay romance is "fetishized" in BL stories. Many people are into such topics even in non-BL stories, not only fujoshis and other gay people. What do you expect? Go to the Bara genre which its repetitive and only sexual? No thanks, at least my BL has cute things, romance and sex in one genre. Fiction is supposed to be escapism so it deals with topics that can be illegal and wrong irl. Besides, it makes things more interesting. |
NurguburuMay 3, 8:43 AM
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
| The genre has always had toxic relationships. Kaze to Ki no Uta is better in that it doesn't romanticize such relationships. It is the villain who is toxic. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Mishiia
A lot of BL manga/anime, specifically that have fetishizing, the author is women. Idk if there men that make fetishize BL genre. If I check the amount of BL, there's a lot than GL.
The genre become more wild. And the nonconsensual already appeared since decades ago. I don't really watch BL anime. I think I try watch 3 tittles. The one with 30 years old virgin can read mind seem okay.
The genre become more wild. And the nonconsensual already appeared since decades ago. I don't really watch BL anime. I think I try watch 3 tittles. The one with 30 years old virgin can read mind seem okay.
Mishiia said: Idk if there men that make fetishize BL genre. Manga drawn by gay men tends to be a smaller niche. https://myanimelist.net/people/8697/Gengorou_Tagame https://myanimelist.net/people/11205/Itto |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Multilynx
I too am a huge lover of BL. As there’s not much else for us queer people, we have to take what we can get many times. I have two bookshelves full of BL manga and I own many on physical media.
Firstly, your post comes across as being quite judgmental about what you deem to be “normal” or not. Your normal does not necessarily constitute someone else’s normal. I don’t know what country you’re in, but keep in mind that Japanese culture is different from others and all manga and anime is made first and foremost for the Japanese audience. Also, the legal age of consent in Japan was 13 from 1907 until June 2023 when it was raised to 16. There are other countries around the world (including the US) where the age of consent is 13 or there are exceptions for the age of consent down to the age of 13. I’m not saying it’s right or ethical in the 21st century. I’m just stating the facts.
BL has changed a lot over the years. Even Given uses toxic manipulation as well as at least one questionable sex scene. Some of these tropes have died down over the years but BL is mainly written by females for females who want to fetishize taboos. Most manga has some type of fetishization, whether it’s straight or gay. We all have our kinks. I have never seen or heard of a BL anime with pedophilia, so I am unsure what you watched.
Keep in mind too that all of the anime you’ve listed are anime adaptations of popular manga. I don’t know of any original BL anime. And the anime adaptations generally follow the manga. Personally, I don’t see anything so wrong with any of the anime you mentioned for you to classify them as bad or worse. Yarichin☆Bitch Club is rather out there but it’s not bad.
As for the state of the BL genre, it’s alive and well. There are more BL manga and anime adaptations than ever. The US continues to see improvement in the availability of BL manga. It’s disappointing that the Ten Count anime was canceled but we have Twilight Out of Focus to look forward to with the summer season and the third Given movie arrives in the fall (in Japan). I’m not aware of any other anime adaptations but hopefully more will be announced soon.
Firstly, your post comes across as being quite judgmental about what you deem to be “normal” or not. Your normal does not necessarily constitute someone else’s normal. I don’t know what country you’re in, but keep in mind that Japanese culture is different from others and all manga and anime is made first and foremost for the Japanese audience. Also, the legal age of consent in Japan was 13 from 1907 until June 2023 when it was raised to 16. There are other countries around the world (including the US) where the age of consent is 13 or there are exceptions for the age of consent down to the age of 13. I’m not saying it’s right or ethical in the 21st century. I’m just stating the facts.
BL has changed a lot over the years. Even Given uses toxic manipulation as well as at least one questionable sex scene. Some of these tropes have died down over the years but BL is mainly written by females for females who want to fetishize taboos. Most manga has some type of fetishization, whether it’s straight or gay. We all have our kinks. I have never seen or heard of a BL anime with pedophilia, so I am unsure what you watched.
Keep in mind too that all of the anime you’ve listed are anime adaptations of popular manga. I don’t know of any original BL anime. And the anime adaptations generally follow the manga. Personally, I don’t see anything so wrong with any of the anime you mentioned for you to classify them as bad or worse. Yarichin☆Bitch Club is rather out there but it’s not bad.
As for the state of the BL genre, it’s alive and well. There are more BL manga and anime adaptations than ever. The US continues to see improvement in the availability of BL manga. It’s disappointing that the Ten Count anime was canceled but we have Twilight Out of Focus to look forward to with the summer season and the third Given movie arrives in the fall (in Japan). I’m not aware of any other anime adaptations but hopefully more will be announced soon.
Multilynx said: I don’t know of any original BL anime. https://myanimelist.net/anime/32995/Yuri_on_Ice https://myanimelist.net/anime/37426/Sarazanmai https://myanimelist.net/anime/15439/Kono_Danshi_Ningyo_Hiroimashita https://myanimelist.net/anime/25143/Kono_Danshi_Sekka_ni_Nayandemasu https://myanimelist.net/anime/31815/Kono_Danshi_Mahou_ga_Oshigoto_desu Far more interesting than manga adaptations imo. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| I’ve been reading BL/Yaoi manga, manhwa, and doujin since about 2017 (Haven’t tracked most on MAL and instead on mangago) and yes there is a lot of “toxic” things. I don’t mind it at all. If you don’t like that the shounen ai (as opposed to yaoi) genre is mostly sfw with less forceful fanservice stuff and there’s a lot of lists made both here and on other manga sites of non-toxic BL. |
Reply to beansinbread
I’ve been reading BL/Yaoi manga, manhwa, and doujin since about 2017 (Haven’t tracked most on MAL and instead on mangago) and yes there is a lot of “toxic” things. I don’t mind it at all. If you don’t like that the shounen ai (as opposed to yaoi) genre is mostly sfw with less forceful fanservice stuff and there’s a lot of lists made both here and on other manga sites of non-toxic BL.
| @beansinbread, I also have read a lot of BL works. |
|
Reply to FedeMetal
Not enough BL anime. There's like 3 yuri per season, but barely BL.
| @FedeMetal, yes, sadly. Recently Yuri on Ice movie was cancelled. |
|
Reply to Multilynx
I too am a huge lover of BL. As there’s not much else for us queer people, we have to take what we can get many times. I have two bookshelves full of BL manga and I own many on physical media.
Firstly, your post comes across as being quite judgmental about what you deem to be “normal” or not. Your normal does not necessarily constitute someone else’s normal. I don’t know what country you’re in, but keep in mind that Japanese culture is different from others and all manga and anime is made first and foremost for the Japanese audience. Also, the legal age of consent in Japan was 13 from 1907 until June 2023 when it was raised to 16. There are other countries around the world (including the US) where the age of consent is 13 or there are exceptions for the age of consent down to the age of 13. I’m not saying it’s right or ethical in the 21st century. I’m just stating the facts.
BL has changed a lot over the years. Even Given uses toxic manipulation as well as at least one questionable sex scene. Some of these tropes have died down over the years but BL is mainly written by females for females who want to fetishize taboos. Most manga has some type of fetishization, whether it’s straight or gay. We all have our kinks. I have never seen or heard of a BL anime with pedophilia, so I am unsure what you watched.
Keep in mind too that all of the anime you’ve listed are anime adaptations of popular manga. I don’t know of any original BL anime. And the anime adaptations generally follow the manga. Personally, I don’t see anything so wrong with any of the anime you mentioned for you to classify them as bad or worse. Yarichin☆Bitch Club is rather out there but it’s not bad.
As for the state of the BL genre, it’s alive and well. There are more BL manga and anime adaptations than ever. The US continues to see improvement in the availability of BL manga. It’s disappointing that the Ten Count anime was canceled but we have Twilight Out of Focus to look forward to with the summer season and the third Given movie arrives in the fall (in Japan). I’m not aware of any other anime adaptations but hopefully more will be announced soon.
Firstly, your post comes across as being quite judgmental about what you deem to be “normal” or not. Your normal does not necessarily constitute someone else’s normal. I don’t know what country you’re in, but keep in mind that Japanese culture is different from others and all manga and anime is made first and foremost for the Japanese audience. Also, the legal age of consent in Japan was 13 from 1907 until June 2023 when it was raised to 16. There are other countries around the world (including the US) where the age of consent is 13 or there are exceptions for the age of consent down to the age of 13. I’m not saying it’s right or ethical in the 21st century. I’m just stating the facts.
BL has changed a lot over the years. Even Given uses toxic manipulation as well as at least one questionable sex scene. Some of these tropes have died down over the years but BL is mainly written by females for females who want to fetishize taboos. Most manga has some type of fetishization, whether it’s straight or gay. We all have our kinks. I have never seen or heard of a BL anime with pedophilia, so I am unsure what you watched.
Keep in mind too that all of the anime you’ve listed are anime adaptations of popular manga. I don’t know of any original BL anime. And the anime adaptations generally follow the manga. Personally, I don’t see anything so wrong with any of the anime you mentioned for you to classify them as bad or worse. Yarichin☆Bitch Club is rather out there but it’s not bad.
As for the state of the BL genre, it’s alive and well. There are more BL manga and anime adaptations than ever. The US continues to see improvement in the availability of BL manga. It’s disappointing that the Ten Count anime was canceled but we have Twilight Out of Focus to look forward to with the summer season and the third Given movie arrives in the fall (in Japan). I’m not aware of any other anime adaptations but hopefully more will be announced soon.
| @Multilynx You're right with different fermentations of "normal", and I guess what I was coming from the pedophilia age is coming from the fact I actually didn't know about the legal age of consent of 13 - so I guess that makes sense to them in Japan because that's their culture - but as for someone who's outside Japan, it's just offputting to me. And yeah, there's that part of given - in the movie - that's part of the story building, and yeah it's horrible, but I'm talking about shows that use that as an entire plot point. However, yeah I do see a lot of your points - a lot of them stemmed from the fact that I didn't know the legal age. |
| What if we watched Evangelion in the sewer...? |
Reply to KazuroWeisemann
Have you ever wondered that the genre isn't intended for you?
Yes. BL is originally something designed for a group of Japanese female fans in japan who refer to themselves as 'fujoshi'. And this group of people actively like/seek the things you find disturbing such as large age gaps, toxic, manipulative etc.
The BL genre isn't made by the diversity section of some western company to be more inclusive. It literally exists for fetishization. Japan does not give a solitary care about western morality/concepts.
Yes. BL is originally something designed for a group of Japanese female fans in japan who refer to themselves as 'fujoshi'. And this group of people actively like/seek the things you find disturbing such as large age gaps, toxic, manipulative etc.
The BL genre isn't made by the diversity section of some western company to be more inclusive. It literally exists for fetishization. Japan does not give a solitary care about western morality/concepts.
| @KazuroWeisemann no, I get that - that's why I asked the question to see what Western points of view were. Are we fine with it? Are we not? Why? |
| What if we watched Evangelion in the sewer...? |
Reply to Maou_heika
I don't like the genre exactly for the reasons mentioned in the original post. BL often romanticizes abusive and non-consensual relationships as cute and desirable and fans often defend these abusers and rapists by interpreting these scenes as the victim having internalized homophobia and/or being in denial, rape and violence is hardly ever depicted in negative light. The authors add to this shit by showing the victim blushing when he's being violated to give the atmosphere that he secretly wanted it and there are no consequences to these acts, the victim is back and interacting with his rapist/abuser as if these things never happened in the next scene. What really made me hate BL though was its fans, you aren't allowed to criticize such relationships otherwise fujoshis/fudanshis will immediately label you homophobic and I've seen plenty of them going to lengths to prove that their toxic relationship is "representation", and this doesn't come just from straight girls but from gay men as well.
Although most of the recent adaptations have been better ones, I didn't like SasaMiya because I'm not fond of fudanshi characters but they had a great relationship, CherryMaho was pretty good too. Given would have been good if not for the sexual assault in the movie. Not fond of unscientific things like omegaverse, I'm only watching it because Toshiyuki Morikawa is voicing a character in it but the relationship depicted so far is a good one. Even so these kind of titles are very few in number and do not represent the entire genre, my overall opinion of the genre will most likely continue to remain negative till its fans stop pushing toxic relationships under the guise of promoting LGBT.
Although most of the recent adaptations have been better ones, I didn't like SasaMiya because I'm not fond of fudanshi characters but they had a great relationship, CherryMaho was pretty good too. Given would have been good if not for the sexual assault in the movie. Not fond of unscientific things like omegaverse, I'm only watching it because Toshiyuki Morikawa is voicing a character in it but the relationship depicted so far is a good one. Even so these kind of titles are very few in number and do not represent the entire genre, my overall opinion of the genre will most likely continue to remain negative till its fans stop pushing toxic relationships under the guise of promoting LGBT.
| @Maou_heika I completely agree with what you say here! |
| What if we watched Evangelion in the sewer...? |
| Dont watch too much of BL but rn they felt overclassed by Yuri stuff in many aspect |
 |
| "Opinions on the state of the BL" Well, I don't give a shit about that. I don't watch them. |
| so you want vanilla? well its the same in hentai genre there is few vanilla there too anime is trash and so am i is a popular phrase for a reason |
| Yuri and BL is considered a separate type of moe in Japanese fiction, so it is not surprising that many works contain certain specific fetishes. But I don't see anything strange about this, even though some popular genre fantasies seem quite morally questionable to me. Just try to separate the wheat from the chaff and watch shows with good ratings and fan reviews rather than anything that has the BL tag. At one time this saved me from a lot of shitty yuri. |
 |
RobertBobert said: Yuri and BL is considered a separate type of moe in Japanese fiction, so it is not surprising that many works contain certain specific fetishes. But I don't see anything strange about this, even though some popular genre fantasies seem quite morally questionable to me. Just try to separate the wheat from the chaff and watch shows with good ratings and fan reviews rather than anything that has the BL tag. At one time this saved me from a lot of shitty yuri. Thanks for the advice!! I’ll take your word on this! |
| What if we watched Evangelion in the sewer...? |
| I like extremely toxic BL with a lot of violence and perverted ukes, but most BLs aren't like that. The current state? Too healthy BL coming out, I wanted toxic BL. |
 |
| Eh. I just watch what I watch, and I tend to look for the most healthy stuff possible. I only found out about Sasaki to Miyano and Tadaima, Okaeri by accident. I'm not here for the erotic aspects, and pretty much just the cutesy stuff, like Tadaima, Okaeri for childcare, Sasaki to Miyano for general romance, Patalliro because it's just fun, and Seikimatsu★Darling for how lighthearted it is (Two guys competing to decide who's "the man" of the relationship). Again, erotic stuff just doesn't do anything for me, which is why I tend to avoid that, and the toxic side of things is just something that I really don't understand, nor really want to stumble upon. I already had a really mixed experience with Love Stage!! for what I'll simply call "The episode 3 incident", and would prefer to avoid anime with such an "episode 3"-like event being the reason for the two falling in love. If the means suck, then the ends aren't worth it, which is why I have that specific one scored much lower than the others here. |
Daviljoe193May 3, 11:12 AM
Opinions are opinions, and differing opinions can co-exist. 🙂 But I don't do debate, life's too short to spend time debating people.  |
| I dunno... The last BL I watched was Gravitation over 20 years ago. I'm open to wholesome and cute BL but it sounds like that's a rare thing for the genre. |
| @Maou_heika that's why shippers are very annoying, they will make any type of useless argument just to make you look bad because you disagree with their otp or whatever |
|
Reply to Lhundrup
@Memore Do you have any good suggestions? The more heartwarming and wholesome the better - Preferably already finished. I'm between mangas now〜
|
Reply to Memore
@Lhundrup, of course.
https://myanimelist.net/manga/1571/Sakura-gari
https://myanimelist.net/manga/4011/New_York_New_York
https://myanimelist.net/manga/15818/Yuuutsu_na_Asa
https://myanimelist.net/manga/19594/Hana_wa_Saku_ka
https://myanimelist.net/manga/36603/Deadlock
https://myanimelist.net/manga/52109/Hako_no_Naka (it is a novel though, but I recommend to read it, it is amazing!)
https://myanimelist.net/manga/139549/Utsukushii_Koto
https://myanimelist.net/manga/61119/Utsukushii_Koto (more expanded version of the manga, also great!)
https://myanimelist.net/manga/96678/Mods
https://myanimelist.net/manga/115881/Nights_Before_Night
https://myanimelist.net/manga/100112/By_My_Side
https://myanimelist.net/manga/139112/His_Little_Amber
https://myanimelist.net/manga/96846/Blue_Lust
https://myanimelist.net/manga/99316/Mou_Ichido_Nandodemo
https://myanimelist.net/manga/99397/Kowagaranaide_Soba_ni_Ite
https://myanimelist.net/manga/100927/Lonely_to_Organdy
https://myanimelist.net/manga/101041/Koe_wa_Shite_Namida_wa_Mienu_Nure_Karasu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/102539/Inu_to_Kakezuki
https://myanimelist.net/manga/108568/Umi_to_Futari_no_Enbun_Noudo
https://myanimelist.net/manga/112075/Kannou_Reminder
https://myanimelist.net/manga/102637/Ginza_Neon_Paradise
https://myanimelist.net/manga/109975/Kimagure_na_Jaguar
https://myanimelist.net/manga/103546/Hong_Kong_Dragnet
https://myanimelist.net/manga/103942/Ao_no_Flag
https://myanimelist.net/manga/122906/Kieta_Hatsukoi
https://myanimelist.net/manga/105835/Sayonara_Game
https://myanimelist.net/manga/109141/Change_World
https://myanimelist.net/manga/115103/Love_Nest
https://myanimelist.net/manga/133567/Love_Nest_2nd
https://myanimelist.net/manga/107539/Life__Senjou_no_Bokura
https://myanimelist.net/manga/113069/Hinadori_wa_Shiokaze_ni_Madoromu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/113603/Ao_ni_Naku
https://myanimelist.net/manga/114024/Revival_Blue
https://myanimelist.net/manga/103909/Yukidoke_no_Koi
https://myanimelist.net/manga/107960/Bokura_ga_Koi_wo_Ushinau_Riyuu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/115916/Contrast
https://myanimelist.net/manga/111023/Doronuma
https://myanimelist.net/manga/116053/Afureru_Namida_wo_Nomikonda_nara
https://myanimelist.net/manga/116075/Fuck_Buddy
https://myanimelist.net/manga/116080/Hishakai_Shindo
https://myanimelist.net/manga/116655/Bokura_wa_Nandomo_Koi_wo_Suru
https://myanimelist.net/manga/119497/Nagiko_no_Hanashi
https://myanimelist.net/manga/120601/Makotoshiyaka_ni_Mau_Hana_wa
https://myanimelist.net/manga/120577/Adam_no_Rokkotsu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/108260/Red_Beryl_ni_Sayonara
https://myanimelist.net/manga/97111/Kocchi_Muite_Ai
https://myanimelist.net/manga/121079/Killing_Stalking
https://myanimelist.net/manga/127768/Odai_wa_Kekkou_desu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/121082/Rumspringa_no_Joukei
https://myanimelist.net/manga/127572/Shinai_naru_Gene_e
https://myanimelist.net/manga/127161/Navigatoria_ni_Koi
https://myanimelist.net/manga/124888/Hitori_to_Hitori_no_3650-nichi
https://myanimelist.net/manga/124887/Metro
https://myanimelist.net/manga/124885/My_Little_Inferno
https://myanimelist.net/manga/121870/Dousei_Yankee_Akamatsu_Seven
https://myanimelist.net/manga/134649/Happy_of_the_End
https://myanimelist.net/manga/133472/Bokura_ni_Namae_wo_Tsukeru_nara
https://myanimelist.net/manga/133229/The_Warehouse
https://myanimelist.net/manga/132962/Boku_ga_Otto_ni_Deau_made
https://myanimelist.net/manga/128811/Yonin_no_Nibiiro
https://myanimelist.net/manga/146517/Toumei_na_Ai_no_Utsuwa
https://myanimelist.net/manga/141918/Call
https://myanimelist.net/manga/141531/Two_Sides_of_the_Same_Coin
https://myanimelist.net/manga/140108/Bright_Blue_ni_Shizumu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/139743/Undead
https://myanimelist.net/manga/139626/Meiji_Juuzoku_Tungsten
https://myanimelist.net/manga/138838/Twilight
https://myanimelist.net/manga/147090/Kono_Kiss_wa_Kiji_ni_Dekinai
https://myanimelist.net/manga/155962/Hajime_no_Koi
https://myanimelist.net/manga/136398/Shinigami_wa_Korosenai
https://myanimelist.net/manga/136294/Pearl_Boy
https://myanimelist.net/manga/136103/Haruka_Tooki_Ie
https://myanimelist.net/manga/162183/Kami_no_Fune_de_Nemuru
https://myanimelist.net/manga/135589/Blind_Play
https://myanimelist.net/manga/148490/Interview_with_the_Criminal
https://myanimelist.net/manga/119525/Tonari_no_Usotsuki
https://myanimelist.net/manga/95931/Loved_Circus
https://myanimelist.net/manga/162158/Murderous_Lewellyns_Candlelit_Dinner
https://myanimelist.net/manga/159696/Our_Youth
https://myanimelist.net/manga/156963/False_Memories
https://myanimelist.net/manga/154904/Sakanai_Hana_ni_Mizuyari
https://myanimelist.net/manga/152701/Kimi_wo_Someru_Asayake_ni
https://myanimelist.net/manga/152222/Delivery_Hug_Therapy
https://myanimelist.net/manga/151263/Bokura_no_Micro_na_Shuumatsu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/147762/Seiki_Sakushu_Mononoke_Itan
https://myanimelist.net/manga/1571/Sakura-gari
https://myanimelist.net/manga/4011/New_York_New_York
https://myanimelist.net/manga/15818/Yuuutsu_na_Asa
https://myanimelist.net/manga/19594/Hana_wa_Saku_ka
https://myanimelist.net/manga/36603/Deadlock
https://myanimelist.net/manga/52109/Hako_no_Naka (it is a novel though, but I recommend to read it, it is amazing!)
https://myanimelist.net/manga/139549/Utsukushii_Koto
https://myanimelist.net/manga/61119/Utsukushii_Koto (more expanded version of the manga, also great!)
https://myanimelist.net/manga/96678/Mods
https://myanimelist.net/manga/115881/Nights_Before_Night
https://myanimelist.net/manga/100112/By_My_Side
https://myanimelist.net/manga/139112/His_Little_Amber
https://myanimelist.net/manga/96846/Blue_Lust
https://myanimelist.net/manga/99316/Mou_Ichido_Nandodemo
https://myanimelist.net/manga/99397/Kowagaranaide_Soba_ni_Ite
https://myanimelist.net/manga/100927/Lonely_to_Organdy
https://myanimelist.net/manga/101041/Koe_wa_Shite_Namida_wa_Mienu_Nure_Karasu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/102539/Inu_to_Kakezuki
https://myanimelist.net/manga/108568/Umi_to_Futari_no_Enbun_Noudo
https://myanimelist.net/manga/112075/Kannou_Reminder
https://myanimelist.net/manga/102637/Ginza_Neon_Paradise
https://myanimelist.net/manga/109975/Kimagure_na_Jaguar
https://myanimelist.net/manga/103546/Hong_Kong_Dragnet
https://myanimelist.net/manga/103942/Ao_no_Flag
https://myanimelist.net/manga/122906/Kieta_Hatsukoi
https://myanimelist.net/manga/105835/Sayonara_Game
https://myanimelist.net/manga/109141/Change_World
https://myanimelist.net/manga/115103/Love_Nest
https://myanimelist.net/manga/133567/Love_Nest_2nd
https://myanimelist.net/manga/107539/Life__Senjou_no_Bokura
https://myanimelist.net/manga/113069/Hinadori_wa_Shiokaze_ni_Madoromu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/113603/Ao_ni_Naku
https://myanimelist.net/manga/114024/Revival_Blue
https://myanimelist.net/manga/103909/Yukidoke_no_Koi
https://myanimelist.net/manga/107960/Bokura_ga_Koi_wo_Ushinau_Riyuu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/115916/Contrast
https://myanimelist.net/manga/111023/Doronuma
https://myanimelist.net/manga/116053/Afureru_Namida_wo_Nomikonda_nara
https://myanimelist.net/manga/116075/Fuck_Buddy
https://myanimelist.net/manga/116080/Hishakai_Shindo
https://myanimelist.net/manga/116655/Bokura_wa_Nandomo_Koi_wo_Suru
https://myanimelist.net/manga/119497/Nagiko_no_Hanashi
https://myanimelist.net/manga/120601/Makotoshiyaka_ni_Mau_Hana_wa
https://myanimelist.net/manga/120577/Adam_no_Rokkotsu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/108260/Red_Beryl_ni_Sayonara
https://myanimelist.net/manga/97111/Kocchi_Muite_Ai
https://myanimelist.net/manga/121079/Killing_Stalking
https://myanimelist.net/manga/127768/Odai_wa_Kekkou_desu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/121082/Rumspringa_no_Joukei
https://myanimelist.net/manga/127572/Shinai_naru_Gene_e
https://myanimelist.net/manga/127161/Navigatoria_ni_Koi
https://myanimelist.net/manga/124888/Hitori_to_Hitori_no_3650-nichi
https://myanimelist.net/manga/124887/Metro
https://myanimelist.net/manga/124885/My_Little_Inferno
https://myanimelist.net/manga/121870/Dousei_Yankee_Akamatsu_Seven
https://myanimelist.net/manga/134649/Happy_of_the_End
https://myanimelist.net/manga/133472/Bokura_ni_Namae_wo_Tsukeru_nara
https://myanimelist.net/manga/133229/The_Warehouse
https://myanimelist.net/manga/132962/Boku_ga_Otto_ni_Deau_made
https://myanimelist.net/manga/128811/Yonin_no_Nibiiro
https://myanimelist.net/manga/146517/Toumei_na_Ai_no_Utsuwa
https://myanimelist.net/manga/141918/Call
https://myanimelist.net/manga/141531/Two_Sides_of_the_Same_Coin
https://myanimelist.net/manga/140108/Bright_Blue_ni_Shizumu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/139743/Undead
https://myanimelist.net/manga/139626/Meiji_Juuzoku_Tungsten
https://myanimelist.net/manga/138838/Twilight
https://myanimelist.net/manga/147090/Kono_Kiss_wa_Kiji_ni_Dekinai
https://myanimelist.net/manga/155962/Hajime_no_Koi
https://myanimelist.net/manga/136398/Shinigami_wa_Korosenai
https://myanimelist.net/manga/136294/Pearl_Boy
https://myanimelist.net/manga/136103/Haruka_Tooki_Ie
https://myanimelist.net/manga/162183/Kami_no_Fune_de_Nemuru
https://myanimelist.net/manga/135589/Blind_Play
https://myanimelist.net/manga/148490/Interview_with_the_Criminal
https://myanimelist.net/manga/119525/Tonari_no_Usotsuki
https://myanimelist.net/manga/95931/Loved_Circus
https://myanimelist.net/manga/162158/Murderous_Lewellyns_Candlelit_Dinner
https://myanimelist.net/manga/159696/Our_Youth
https://myanimelist.net/manga/156963/False_Memories
https://myanimelist.net/manga/154904/Sakanai_Hana_ni_Mizuyari
https://myanimelist.net/manga/152701/Kimi_wo_Someru_Asayake_ni
https://myanimelist.net/manga/152222/Delivery_Hug_Therapy
https://myanimelist.net/manga/151263/Bokura_no_Micro_na_Shuumatsu
https://myanimelist.net/manga/147762/Seiki_Sakushu_Mononoke_Itan
| @Memore Phew! Thank you, I appreciate your help. |
| 9 out of 10 bl out there is unwatchable/readable for me and I just drop it before bothering to put it on my list, but the 10% I like is super awesome and after years of trial and error my success rate of finding bl I enjoy has increased, so even if the state of bl hasn't necessarily improved, I feel pretty satisfied and the amount of bl is diverse if you look hard enough (very hard in my case). Actually I started reading bl in japanese on honto.jp since waiting on unreliable scans was mentally draining, so that helps too... |
   |
Reply to Starfallash
9 out of 10 bl out there is unwatchable/readable for me and I just drop it before bothering to put it on my list, but the 10% I like is super awesome and after years of trial and error my success rate of finding bl I enjoy has increased, so even if the state of bl hasn't necessarily improved, I feel pretty satisfied and the amount of bl is diverse if you look hard enough (very hard in my case). Actually I started reading bl in japanese on honto.jp since waiting on unreliable scans was mentally draining, so that helps too...
| @Starfallash, yes, sadly there are not so many good BL works, I agree. |
|
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