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| @Aarond44 Thanks for the clarification and for helping me to remember about Sanson's attitude. ^^ "I sustain that a 40 yo man marrying a 15 yo girl is really weird and gross." I don't know about "gross" but I don't consider romantic age gaps viable either, when it includes someone below 30-smthng (expectations, behaviour, values are easier to share beyond a certain minima). But that's based on nowadays peoples, where being adult doesn't really come earlier (in average) to the point where neologisms were created (" adul-escent"/"kidult" for example). "Have you met most 15 year old people? They are very much not adults yet regardless of gender)" Partly answered above but: Currently trying university at 30+, it's easy to say this for my 20year old comrades, despite how relatively calm, serious, distanced/"mature" they can be, as well as some students from superior years (I can't even consider myself as one, I admit). At best, some of the "doctorate" students seem "adult". ♀ look like they hve an advantage over ♂ to me. "That pairing is too weird for me. Not trying to ruin it ." No problem, I was only questioning. ^^ To "ruin" a fiction would require very active decisions from the author and not just an epilogue wedding and watchers bewildered by it. "it really didn’t have much in the way of relationship development (at least in the romantic sense) during the run of the show." I am in total agreement with this. But unlike most people, I have no problem with epilogues stating something that was never hinted/alluded to (unlike weirdly unprepared events in the main course). So I don't see this as a "narrative choice". Also, romance-wise, I'm fine with the focus being solely Jean&Nadia since their relationship takes an important role in the overall series and for Nadia's progression. Since this "pairing" is not part of the story, I accept Anno telling me that happened. Just like that, out of screen. |
Rei_IIIAug 21, 2021 6:26 AM
| Yeah, I seem to be in the minority here, but I was not at all impressed with the way they ended this. Persistent continuity problems continue right up to the end, with Nadia being suddenly back in her circus uniform when it's time to go home, after two episodes in that awful Neo Atlantis costume, and Electra's battle damaged "plug suit" looking like brand new again at the same time Farabeuf said: Speaking of which, somehow seeing Nadia as a housewife rubbed me the wrong way. I just don't see a fesity, fiercely independent young woman like her just settling down and living the conventional married life that was portrayed in the epilogue. Absolutely. Everything about Nadia and Jean's ending feels completely forced and contrived to me. Their chemistry sucks and they've never even got along that well. It sort of felt to me at the climax like Nadia was sacrificing her father's life and sacrificing the most valuable artefact of her race to save a boy she only kinda-sorta liked who helped her out a few times because people were chasing her. Their strength as a couple doesn't really stack up to the intense circumstances surrounding them? ZetaZaku said: So basically Nadia pulled an Usagi Drop way before Usagi Drop. Guy literally raised the mother of his future child. At this point I'm not sure what was weirder, Electra being pregnant with Nemo, or Marie marrying Sanson. I assume Sanson probably took care of her as well after the adventure, since without family, someone must have taken care of her. Well said! Yeah, it's skeevy anytime a story hooks up one character with another character half their age, but it's extra skeevy in this particular case with hot-blooded womanizing Sanson and innocent little orphan Marie. The conclusions the epilogue sets up is basically the least likely outcomes for all of them in the context of the story we've just been told. According to the epilogue, after fighting for Grandis' attention almost everyday for years, Hanson gets married to a job, Sanson gets married to a child, and Grandis distances herself from both of them and literally takes up golf? Lol? How is a single detail of that even the slightest bit likely? Shocked said: Nadia: Secret of Blue Water, really wanted to be an adventure anime at first. Then it wanted to be a celebration of science and technology. Then it wanted to be a cautionary tale, combining discussions over the relationship between science, nature, and man. Then it was a romance anime. Then it was a science fiction action anime. Then it was a space battle anime with the world on the verge of being conquered, if not outright destroyed. I think this anime should have picked one identity - two max- and stuck with it. As is, it's somewhat disjointed, featuring a number of very interesting points, despite not all of them really connecting. This is a great point, and something the show really left me feeling let down by in the end. The arc that had Jean playing hapless child prodigy inventor and Nadia playing runaway circus girl was pretty fun and compelling. The arc where they found themselves onboard the Nautilus skirmishing back and forth with the Garfish was also pretty great. The later stuff with the orbital satellites and energy barriers and space battles seemed pretty half-hearted and not very well planned out by comparison. I think that's a big part of why the ending fell so flat for me. |
case649Jul 15, 2019 9:53 PM
| Number of Gainax shows with bad endings: officially zero It was a great adventure and a solid series overall, though not without problems. King (and, to a less extent, Marie) felt like unnecessary characters to me. |
| Well this series was certainly a blast to say the least :D I thoroughly enjoyed it apart from the Island and Africa arcs (save for a few moments in those arcs) glad I watched them at least once and they really were as bad as they have been described if I rewatch this series in the future (and I am sure I will one day) I will be skipping those arcs probably watch that fan super cut I have heard about. But, I did enjoy this finale and epilogue save for a few things that made me scratch my head but I will get to that! I wanted to think about this final episode a bit more before commenting so here are my thoughts. I love how Nemo views humanity and how he believes their good qualities of excellence far outweigh their underbelly of insidious traits! I was a bit disappointed to learn Neo was under the control of Gargoyle thought it would be better if he actually betrayed Nemo I guess he could have still betrayed him in the beginning and then was rebuilt to obey Gargoyle possibly being entrapped in an automaton body realizing deep in his sub conscious what a horrible mistake he made while unable to do anything about it a quick scene to indicate that would have been nice. The part where he pulls himself forward in order to free Nadia and he uses the last of his human strength to do so before he is obliterated was very nicely done. Electra getting electrocuted was both so hard and easy on the eyes; hard because she is suffering so much pain and easy because the animators still know what they are doing X3 Jean getting suddenly dropped and killed was such a jolt since it was done so quickly very effective in capturing the sudden shock and anguish of the moment! I did not have a problem with the Nautilus blasting a beam into the room where our heroes were causing Neo to awaken but then them just power housing in and shooting Gargoyle with their beam was a bit of an odd choice to say the least in my opinion. I mean he could have just been incapacitated another way and then him getting vaporized by the light of the Blue Water could still be how he died. However, we get a pertinent piece of information apparently Gargoyle was human all along not Atlantian . . . whoa wait WHAT!?!? Also, apparently none of the Neo-Atlantis members are either . . . ? So were they all just part of an African tribe where Nemo and his family were and they picked up new members over the years. Did Gargoyle believe he was a descendant from Atlantis because he grew up with Nemo and was taught about the culture along side him? Was Nemo and his wife and children the last true blood descendants of Atlantis or were all the rest killed in the explosion of the tower? Hey Nemo! Did you every think telling Gargoyle he was human would have shattered his word view and gotten him to stop this conquest of the world XD well I guess he would have believed Nemo was lying to him. I guess growing up and being assimilated into the culture he believed he was a descendant. A bit abrupt to learn he is just a regular human moments before his death. I guess it was meant to be symbolic but I thought his demise would work better if he was an Atlantian but I suppose that is just a personal preference. I did like how Nemo was willing to give up his life to save Jean it echos his philosophy on having trust in the younger generation to carve out a bright future and it is in his self sacrificing nature as he has put himself in danger to say Nadia, Jean and Marie many times before. Electra saying Nadia should save the one she loves first must have been especially hard due to her feelings towards Nemo and yet she still encouraged Nadia to do what she thought girls should do when they love someone and then Nadia looking to Grandis with her agreeing silently was a particularly well done scene. Nadia speaking with her Mother for the first and last time as she asks Jean's life to be saved for giving up any power she may have with the Blue Water was another fantastic scene. Electra and Nadia holding the men they love close was great to see as well! And then Nemo even when he has been beaten down and his protection gone he does not hesitate to make the sacrifice to save everyone as a King, Captain, Father he knows this is what he must do. With his last words to the crew, Grandis, Electra and Nadia being especially heart wrenching. Rest easy Nemo your perseverance and sacrifices saved this world, protected the innocent and secured the future for those you inspired to make it a brilliant one may your soul join the stars and shine brightly over Earth! Jean and Nadia embracing while he said they are both people of Earth and that transition to the starry sky was a great touch as well a great send off! Now regarding the epilogue I almost wonder if this part of the story was hastily written or if it was written by Hideaki with the intention to prevent any extra episodes or installments to be created by the studio and producers. I mean think about it Hideaki saw what happened with the filler episodes and he feared they would try to strip mine this series in order to squeeze more cash out of its popularity so he wanted to end the story in a way that would be difficult to make that happened if it was handed off to a different team of creators. Hell even the film that follows the series takes place before the end of the epilogue and a lot of jumps in logic had to be taken in getting the characters together/giving them proper motivations. So it seemed like this epilogue was made and separated our characters giving them a finality to their stories where they would all settle down thus, preventing any reason for future adventures. That is just an idea I thought of upon reflecting on the epilogue but I would not be surprised if that was the reasoning behind it. Now as for the content of the epilogue itself: now Jean and Nadia getting married was expected and I actually think it fits since Nadia found the secret behind her past, she made it to Africa and hell she even sacrificed the last fragment of her civilization in order to save Jean so of course he is the most important thing in the world to her. So her journey in everything she wanted to do was accomplished plus with all the adventures they went on they were enough for several lifetimes over they went to SPACE even. So out of all the epilogue stories this one to me at least is the most believable XD but I can certainly understand concerns about it! Man on man though they did Grandis dirty in my opinion but I will come back to that in a bit. So Hanson became rich and apparently bought the Empire State building XD and he is searching for a wife my first thought was wouldn't he have taken Electra in and helped raise her child maybe trying to win her heart since in the series it was shown he was interested in her and plus I cannot imagine she could find many job prospects considering the life she lived before. Electra and Nemo getting together and having a child also made sense to me since they clearly had a more powerful relationship as a man and woman and not as a father and daughter so that was not too weird to find out. Also, it seems that Sanson and Marie got married which was rather jarring to say the least! I mean we had Sanson being overprotective of Grandis and concerned about her love life throughout the series he even peeped on her and grabbed her before the submarine dove to save her I thought it would be revealed they finally admitted how they felt about one another or grew closer over the years I think it would have been a much better fit and given Grandis a much better ending then she is living the single life with a bunch of admirers! Of course she has admirers Grandis is a beautiful knockout X3 and Sanson would be there to help fend off said admirers and they would slowly be honest with their feelings. Now with Marie I mean knowing that this is the early 20th century and ladies got married much younger at that time it makes it a bit less weird plus knowing Sanson as the guy he is in the series I know he was not planning this out or was underhanded about it. Plus seeing the film that follows the series leads credence to the idea I had where Marie was sent off to get a proper education and Sanson and her reconnected later in life so that makes it a bit less weird but yeah their pairing is still a bit odd XD might have been better for Marie to have married just some guy not involved in the series really driving home the fact she has this wonderful life and future thanks to Jean and Nadia. But, at least she sounds happy and Marie tossing that model plane and it transitions into the ending theme was a great way to close things out as well! However, despite some of my head scratchers towards the finale and epilogue this series was a fantastic voyage that I was so glad I decided to check out :D it was quite a journey worth undertaking that I would highly recommend ^-^ |
TheCrimsonEyeMay 31, 2020 3:06 AM
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| I wasn't the hugest fan of this series to be honest. Ironically, the infamous 'island arc' was more like the 'Odyssey' type of adventure that I thought the entire series was going to be. In the end the main conflict put me to sleep, with the last few episodes being especially boring (how many time is a ship going to ram into something after the enemies' ultra weapon fails?), nonsensical (he fucking unplugged that dude lol) and lacking in any really strong emotion. Perhaps this was because the main characters were pushed aside so the 'old men' could stand around on the most contrived stage ever and prattle on until Nadia uses the Blue Water for like three seconds, which I guess makes sense considering how much this anime was trying to reach back into the past: aesthetically and with its jumbled narrative. And the epilogue felt like trolling. But anyway, at least now I understand that Eva is basically the anti-Nadia. Also, I'm not really sure how the story would have worked if those 'extra' episodes were not included. Like, big showdown after nothing happens? Though I am glad I am not the only one having problems with the ending and it's not just me being super cynical. |
syncrogazerSep 18, 2020 7:25 AM
| I thought one thing that could have been explored more was Jean's realisation that science can be misappropriated by bad actors. This is hinted at when he first learns about the Nautilus' engine, and recurrs occasionally, but I think it was this final episode where he sees Nadia's brother's robotic body and mutters something like "science did that?", but then this goes nowhere. It's a throwaway line. This could have been a really compelling arc - earlier in the series when the engine room is sealed off and some of the crew perish, I thought that this would function to demonstrate to Jean that new dangers arise with new advances in science which he would then have to grapple with (i.e. decide whether it's worth the sacrifice), and having accepted this, that he would later have to deal with a similar conflict when the realisation properly dawned on him that science can be used maliciously (maybe he could have been be pitted against a situation where he would have to put to use his earlier lesson of making a sacrifice to prevent a worse outcome, such as stopping a malicious actor). Sadly, this seemed largely unfulfilled, and that this theme only recurred in passing in the very last episode made it feel like an afterthought - exploring this could have been a much better use of time than that whole silly island thing. I did like this series quite a lot overall, but I do lament the 10 episodes or so of largely wasted time, and when the story finally picks back up in the last few episodes, it actually feels like we've missed an entire chunk of the series. Bit of a shame, because there's plenty of material that if used more efficiently could have really elevated the whole thing from good to great. |
| Well, that was a ride, the show came back to being watchable by last few episodes. My eyes did become watery during the Neo freeing Nadia, Jean's fall and Nemo's death. So I had suspected Gargoyle of being a non-Atlantean because he needed the royal family members to control the Blue Water, if he was Atlantean he'd be able to do it himself. I expected Nadia to say something along the lines of "If humans are meant to serve Atlanteans then why are you ordering me around?". So Neo only barely survived Nemo blowing up the Tower of Babel in Tartessos and Gargoyle, gave him a cybernetic body. Gargoyle became a pillar of salt! Gargoyle once mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah to Nadia, so I guess in the world of Nadia, the Biblical story is based on an incident where a Blue Water destroyed non-Atlanteans. He was one of the humans he despised so much all along. So during the Island/Africa arc. Nemo impregnated Electra? So Nadia will be getting a half-sibling. I can see the relationship going one way (Marie being naïve and attracted to the strongest of the group, maybe in a similar situation between Electra and Nemo), but I was certain Samson had his mind on Grandis. There was only two memorable events between him and Marie; that time both her and Nadia caught a disease and Samson was only worried about her. The other time was when she got lost with king when the Nautilus stopped on an island, there wasn't any indication of romance.... |
Fortress_MaximusFeb 5, 2021 1:05 PM
 Novels I have read/am reading pending approval: since November 10 2022 |
| Well, this finale was nothing short of an absolute garbage fire. From Neo overcoming his brainwashing and being unplugged with sheer willpower to save Nadia from her own brainwashing (fuck off with that bullshit), to Nadia using the Blue Water to save Jean (big deus ex machina, given it was never indicated the Blue Water was alive, let alone that it had that kind of power), and then to every second of that hideous mess called an epilogue: people rag on Usagi Drop for what happened there, but this show did the same thing a good 20 years before with Marie and Sanson (seriously, what in the actual fuck were the writers thinking?); Jean and Nadia have never had much in the way of real chemistry at all, and neither have really developed as characters from the start despite the show's best attempts (Nadia is, at the end of the day, the same whiny brat she's always been, while Jean is still the fun but ultimately naive inventor he started out as) so them getting together as a couple comes across so hollow and undeserved (and are we seriously meant to believe the strong-willed Nadia just settled to become a housewife? yeah, no chance of that). The villains of this show were nothing more than caricatures throughout, espousing pretentious, nihilistic philosophy to try and sound intimidating but ultimately lacking depth and nuance to make them interesting, so spending most of this final arc with them and Nemo exchanging philosophical battles, rather than giving the main characters Nadia and Jean anything to do whatsoever was thoroughly tedious. At the end of the day, Grandis, Hanson and Sanson were the most fun characters in this show, but they were criminally underused as the stakes rose and the show lost me more and more; the show was much more enjoyable when it was just Nadia and Jean being chased by Grandis and co in the Team Rocket role. On the subject of characters, I despised Nadia to the point that she's probably one of my least favourite protagonists in all of fiction. All she does is whine and rage at others for not ascribing to her ridiculous black-and-white view of the world, and it feels like the show spends way, way more time on that than it does on highlighting any positive traits she may have had (did she have any?). Also, even ignoring the wild inconsistencies of the filler episodes, it feels like the writing threw out a lot of different ideas here and there, but never did much of anything with most of them as it struggled to decide what kind of message it wanted to send. Then there were just blatant continuity errors all over the place to top it all off. In conclusion, with my dislike of Evangelion and now this, I can safely conclude that I do not like Hideaki Anno's writing, even if I can recognise on some level why people do. Frankly, 5/10 feels somewhat generous after all of that venting, but this show did have some real good moments in places, just not enough of them. |
| This show turned out nothing like I expected. I thought I was going to be watching a somewhat realistic slice of life/comedy adventure series and I was really enjoying it in the beginning. Then it turned into a badly animated and overly silly Loony Tunes show, which then became spaceships and humans being created by aliens, ugh. It became a chore just to get through it, what happened? DekuHero said: Seriously, I've loved those scenes of Sanson and Marie playing together and I don't know how I'm gonna feel about them on a rewatch when I know where it's going. I did notice they paired the two characters together a lot but at no point did I think that's where it was going. Exactly, those earlier scenes of them hanging out together that felt so wholesome and cute are just super creepy now. I doubt I'll ever be rewatching it anyway, all in all it just wasn't a very good show in my opinion. |
| Weird but somehow fulfilling ending. Barely earns a 5/10 from me just because while there was plenty of the story was flat out bad, it was also...quite the experience I will say the show made a decent comeback in its finale. I'm glad some of the characters like Nadia were fleshed out more by the end and became likable versus their early counterparts who were just plain and detestable |
CrackJun 22, 2022 2:28 PM
wolfwood90 said: sanson was one of my favorites ... but that epilogue I KNOW BRO!!! This was so weird to see but it goes to show how things have changed. I definitely see how this Anno used parts of this show when he was making Evangelion. I wanted to finally give this a shot after watching the eva remakes but I don't think I'll ever rewatch Nadia. A solid 6/10 imo |
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| Would've been better if Sanson married Grandis and Marie was like their child, marrying someone else. Good show, but the filler was too much for me to ignore. I personally separate Nadia's canon self to her filler counterpart. |
AzafuseKingToraMar 14, 7:02 PM
| everything with neo and gargoyle and the actual ending of the plot was great and done well, but the epilogue was sooo out of the blue and unnecessary, like a lot of other stuff in this show.... |
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| Well, uh, at least we got Eva out of all this. Some thoughts: - I'm amazed Electra was able to carry the baby to term considering she was nearly shocked to death, like, twice. - Nemo/Electra and Sanson/Marie are, as has been brought up numerous times, icky to say the least. Especially considering Nemo and Electra's whole father/daughter thing and the fact that she, y'know, shot him. Very forgiving guy. - Funny that Nadia and Jean, the leads, received basically no character development. They're the exact same characters at the end that they were at the beginning. - I almost like Eva less in retrospect, now seeing that a fair few ideas and concepts in it were just reheated leftovers from this. - Everyone hates the Island arc, but I don't even feel like it was that much worse than what proceeded and succeeded it. - Nadia remained an annoying, petulant brat throughout, which surprised me. Kind of thought she'd get an Asuka-esque arc to justify her shittiness but, alas, it was not to be. - Gargoyle was a terrible antagonist. The kind of guy you could kick in the nuts and point a gun in his face and he'd still calmly insist everything was going according to plan. Christ, even the similarly one-dimensional G1 Megatron got flustered and upset every once in a while. All in all, a total chore to get through. Not that it's a competition, but Gunbuster and Eva both totally shit all over Nadia. |
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