| I was worried until I saw that studio Orange was involve with the CG. I've gotten used to their style and it doesn't look bad just different. And that might rub OG fans the wrong way no matter what. |
 |
| I don't know, people pretend that CGI automatically isn't well animated despite the fact that there's tons of badly animated 2D shows too. I liked the animation in the trailer, but it looks a bit too clean for a space western, and I'm iffy on Vash's hair. It looks a bit too 'modern' in my opinion, like an appeal to new fans. Still excited though. |
 |
| This is my personal opinion, but anime characters do not look good in 3D animation unless it's extremely subtle. Demon Slayer's use of CG is so subtle it's hard to tell they even use it. Now when a anime series is entirely 3D the movements are uncanny, stilted and not even remotely as fluid as 2D animation. Compare how the titans in AOT move in season 1,2,3 compared to season 4. It **really** stands out and not in a good way. It just doesn't flow and looks clunky. This iteration of Trigun puts me off for that reason, and the fact they took away Vash's iconic style to appeal to newer audiences. I'm willing to give it a try but the fact its CG animation definitely puts me off because I simply haven't seen an entirely CG anime that captivated me. Granted I still need to watch Beastars, but my point stands. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| It's just awful. The 90's version is superior. |
| Somebody ITT has too much Orange's seed on their lips. |
  "I can't trust a website where csm is rated higher than hxh"- Akira Toriyama  |
| Firstly, Japan, for the most part, sucks at doing CGI animation. Whether this is due to time or budget constraints, it doesn't really matter, the end result doesn't compare to what we see from Western CG animations. Secondly, to me, CGI as a medium does not work with animanga characters. Anime characters have inherently 2D "flat" designs with hard cut-out edges that define their looks. When the characters are made with 3D CGI, something just feels... off. Even in the new trailer where there aren't any noticeable frame-rate issues and the animation overall looks pretty good for a CGI anime, it still looks off. Same can be said for the new Dragon Ball movie where they tried to incorporate a 2D drawn style onto the 3D models. |
| "Never underestimate the stupidity of the average anime fan" |
| I've never been one to get all particular over the use of 3DCG from a style perspective, though what really bugs me about it's place in contemporary anime is how it's been executed. Most of the stuff I've seen is usually very jittery and unnatural, and that extends to what is supposedly meant to be some of the best bits from the Stampede preview. No clue whether it's up to incompetence or studios trying to imitate the look of 30fps 2D animation, though it's a complete eyesore to me and is probably the sole reason why I haven't watched anything that's all CG. |
 |
| i came here to see what's up, but i see its mostly people arguing and stuff. ahhh well somethings never change haha the cgi does bother me but it doesn't seem to be as bad as the legendary berserk fiasco, although the VA made me cringe and the character models used for the childhood figures tho yeah the cgi is still far from a proper standard i'd deem acceptable.. but hey again its better than berserk.. and tbh it does look pretty cool at least based on the trailer personally am just excited to see an actual trigun project back after decades [it really looks like a videogame cutscene tho lmao] |
TheDiabolicEsperJul 6, 2022 2:55 AM
 |
| On a personal note, I don't particularly care for CGI. Just not my cup of tea. A personal opinion and theory I have on why CGI isn't that well received, could possibly be due to the fact that most people associate anime with 2D animation? Just some food for thought. Though I'm not a fan of CGI, I will watch a show with it if it is a work I particularly like and the animation is done cleanly. In this case, though I was disappointed to hear the new adaption for Trigun would be CGI, I loved the original adaption and especially the manga. So I will definitely be giving this a watch for the nostalgia kick. The trailer did seem promising and despite my dislike of CGI, I think it looked pretty good. |
 |
| Old school is always better, period and i'm still waiting for a sequel to Trigun. I also haven't seen a good CGI from memory. |
Without Western animators, there would be no anime today. |
Merve2Love said: How do you know it wont turn out like in those two Series you just mentioned o.O It's not like everything Studio Orange ever did is amazing, even when looking at just the CGI thing. Beastars looked good. Yes. But that doesn't mean it's gonna look great for this one aswell. It's possible that the CGI is gonna look clunky and off. Like it does in so many Shows. If we were to know it's gonna be made exactly like the original was, which most people loved, we'd be happier. If anything else we KNOW already it's not gonna look like the Anime we remember so fondly. So people not beeing thrilled about this makes total sense, to me. land of the lustrous cgi is probably the best in anime, and its done by orange too. imo they should have faith because its orange, saying it WILL be bad or even most likely bad is very far fetched. |
 |
Blueberry173 said: Merve2Love said: How do you know it wont turn out like in those two Series you just mentioned o.O It's not like everything Studio Orange ever did is amazing, even when looking at just the CGI thing. Beastars looked good. Yes. But that doesn't mean it's gonna look great for this one aswell. It's possible that the CGI is gonna look clunky and off. Like it does in so many Shows. If we were to know it's gonna be made exactly like the original was, which most people loved, we'd be happier. If anything else we KNOW already it's not gonna look like the Anime we remember so fondly. So people not beeing thrilled about this makes total sense, to me. land of the lustrous cgi is probably the best in anime, and its done by orange too. imo they should have faith because its orange, saying it WILL be bad or even most likely bad is very far fetched. Nobody said that, tho. At no point did I predict this to be "most likely bad". Don't know where you got that from. All I said was that there is a possibility of it looking clunky. (Like a lot of CGI does) and that the Fans of the Series would probably prefer the old style.... but....thanks for the reply^^ |
 |
Merve2Love said: Blueberry173 said: land of the lustrous cgi is probably the best in anime, and its done by orange too. imo they should have faith because its orange, saying it WILL be bad or even most likely bad is very far fetched. Nobody said that, tho. At no point did I predict this to be "most likely bad". Don't know where you got that from. All I said was that there is a possibility of it looking clunky. (Like a lot of CGI does) and that the Fans of the Series would probably prefer the old style.... but....thanks for the reply^^ ah sorry, i wasnt talking about you personally, just about the people who just refuse to even notice it because of cg. sorry for that. |
| |
| >Why does the cgi turn people off so much Not really sure about that myself... Berserk and Ajin turnt out so very fine that I really don't see any reason to be cautious about this one >Seems exaggerated and childish to me. Almost as if the medium is populated by a bunch of manchildren drooling over drawn pictures Measure your expectations, simple as. |
| damnn i am neither a fan of classic anime style nor cgi but sometimes you just need to appreciate good stuff. And the Trigun anime was simply worth watching. Also i haven't ever completed a cgi/3d anime yet maybe this will be the first one. |
My MALoween✟Mansion 2022 Candies :       |
| Honestly I'm more annoyed at how they didn't have Masaya Onosaka reprise his role. I'm a huge fan of Yoshitsugu but I can't associate his voice with Trigun and its rawness. When I heard him in the trailer, I literally was like '...but Trigun is not an isekai' Dx |
| I think the main issue that causes the pushback against 3DCG anime is twofold. Partly, anime is kind of viewed as the last bastion of traditional animation by a sizeable chunk of the audience, so 3DCG anime goes against that ideal. But I think the bigger issue is that so many 3DCG anime are merely trying to replicate what traditionally animated anime does, instead of playing to its own strengths. |
DrBalls said: Why does the cgi turn people off so much that they won't give this new adaptation a shot or even go as far as slandering it? Seems exaggerated and childish to me. Studio Orange is the best CGI studio in Japan and this adaptation won't turn out like berserk or ex-arm. What? Based on what? 2 anime that you liked? Have you ever watched an Ufotable show? Their anime is full of CGI and is so well done, that you don't even notice it. In fact, there are a lot of studios that do CGI very well. Bestars looked good because it was an anime with non-human characters, so all the issues with CGI were not noticeable. The other one also had stylized non-human characters. Did you watch Godzilla S.P? They aired it last year, and had plenty of CGI... Studio Ghibli was doing a better CGI work 20 years ago... The best CGI studio my ass. CGI looks like shit in anime, when it comes to characters. After over a decade of flops, they finally seem to have been figuring out the proper frame rate. I have no idea why it took them so long, as everyone on this planet outside of Japan, does mostly CGI animation. But it still looks weird. The characters are clunky, they have rigid movements and move at unnatural speeds. Is weird as fuck and looks awful. It looks like a Jetix cartoon... like something the French did in the early 2000s. Is fine when mixed properly with 2D, or when is done with non-human characters... or at least keep it for children's shows. But Trigun is a Seinen anime. It shouldn't look childish or cartoonish. And yes, many anime fans hate CGI. For many reasons... one is fear - Japan is the last bastion of 2D animation. If Japan moves to 3D too, the craft is dead. But the main one is that it looks bad. Really bad. All those animators got trained on 2D animation... especially the directors and producers. They have very basic knowledge and understanding of CGI. That is why is so bad. And that will not change any time soon. Japanese suck at adaptation to new tech. To this day, Japanese studio's still drawing anime on paper and scanning it, because too many veterans of the industry, who started in the Cell Animation era, just couldn't be bothered to learn to use a Digital tablet and learn to use the digital programs. So don't expect much from them. Those studios will keep using 2D physics and tricks on 3D animation, they will be very slow to learn, and CGI animation will stay 10 steps behind 2D animation for a long time... Moreover, the art style of anime is not suited for 3D. It was developed for 2D animation. CGI animation can look amazing, just look at Arcane. But not with the anime art style. If the Japanese manage to make the CGI look like 2D animation, it may get more tolerated one day. But it would still be an inferior product because CGI uses a 3D model with expressions. This limits the expressivity of the animation itself. No more stylization, no more exaggerated expressions, no more tricks... is going to be very basic... and will have to become very realistic. |
 |
| First the artstyle and designs themselves look unappealing to a lot of people. Second, CG animation on human characters almost always looks awkward in anime. While the CG in the trailer looks better than most it still feels awkward. This is the first time Orange is doing CG animation of human characters so Houseki no Kuni and Beastars aren't that relevant here. Add the fact that the original show had very stylish and aesthetically pleasing 2D animation and designs so it's not hard to see why people aren't too pleased with how this new anime looks. |
nebokko said: Tsarko said: Add the fact that the original show had very stylish and aesthetically pleasing 2D animation and designs so it's not hard to see why people aren't too pleased with how this new anime looks. To play the devil's advocate, if we remove the nostalgia factor the original anime had subpar animation quality being mostly average and right out bad at times, especially considering it was Madhouse who did the animation. On the other hand, the movie had really nice and smooth animation. I haven't actually seen the original show but what you say I don't find too surprising. Most of Madhouse's shows weren't lavishly animated but focused more on detailed on-model designs and nice aesthetics. Still, I've seen bit of the first Trigun and it does look cool, stylish and pleasing to the eye. I can't say that about the new one. And if you ask me personally, I have bigger gripe on the style and designs of new show than the CG itself (which isn't anything to write home about either and still gives awkward feeling). I say all this as someone who is regularly able to enjoy CG shows that people dunk on. If this one ends up well written and not a complete production disaster like Ex-Arm or Berserk (it won't), I will most likely enjoy it too. But I can't pretend it or other CG shows I've seen look nice. |
Tsarko said: I haven't actually seen the original show but what you say I don't find too surprising. Most of Madhouse's shows weren't lavishly animated but focused more on detailed on-model designs and nice aesthetics.. You owe it to yourself to see the original show. It's one of my favorites. Story starts really slow and is somewhat slow to develop, but that's normal if you expect your characters to have traits, relations and feel real. It is a little bit cartoonish in nature, which was typical of most anime from that period but I didn't mind that. Story is what matters, characters are what matters, pacing is what matters... and all of that is good in original. As for this newly shat out abomination of attempt at nostalgia rape in hopes of getting easy money... I'll skip it. Skip it hard to a point that even seeing the trailer deserves some aggressive alcohol-induced memory wiping procedure. I regret ever clicking on that link. But like you said, CG doesn't necessarily has to be bad, except it somehow always ends up being, at least those I saw. Story and characters can be a redeeming factor but I still won't watch new stuff simply because I have fond memories of original which I have watched many times over and this does nothing to improve on it other than attempting to "modernize it". Had it been some side-story or entirely different characters in same universe, sure I might give it a go, unlikely but I thing am an open-minded person. |
LuZeke said: I think the main issue that causes the pushback against 3DCG anime is twofold. Partly, anime is kind of viewed as the last bastion of traditional animation by a sizeable chunk of the audience, so 3DCG anime goes against that ideal. But I think the bigger issue is that so many 3DCG anime are merely trying to replicate what traditionally animated anime does, instead of playing to its own strengths. There are times when CG is well done. Ufotable is one of the good examples, Karas movies as well. But like you said, instead of playing strengths CG offers it's almost exclusively used to do less work and take shortcuts in anime world. It's not used to easily animate highly detailed character model. No, it's used to copy-paste 6000 shit looking models so they don't have to draw faces on every one of them. And that's pretty much where the issue lies I think. Akira was such a huge thing exactly because of authors attention to details and it nearly single-handedly brought back anime industry from the doom. It's when artists don't give a shit or cut corners do we notice poor animation and lazy models without any facial expressions and dead eyes. Just look at Soul Land, show made with dolls and it's awesome. Animation is great, visuals are great, choreography is great. (I realize Soul Land is not dolls, there's another Chinese anime made with dolls and that one is great, but this one is also good example of CGI) |
| Regarding the trailer on its own, ignoring the 3D vs 2D discussion, it looks okay. Not amazing, but I've also seen much much worse. One of my favourite things about anime is world building, and it at least 'looks' like they've put effort into that (hard to judge from a trailer that's barely a minute's worth of actual footage, but I digress). What I'm really curious about is the whole deal with Vash's arm. In the original show it wasn't revealed until about halfway through. Having the arm be a very obvious prosthetic from the start obviously changes the story dynamic around it. Since the design and look and feel of the show (do we know if its a show or a film, even?) is so different from the original, I kinda hope they really lean into it and change things around a lot. If it's just a retread of the Vash vs Knives plot but with a different coat of paint, that would be disappointing. |
| I mean, It is probably going to be fine in 3D CGI, BUT, the fans want a modern remodel of what they had in the 1990s, so this will put at least 40-60% of fans off the hype train and almost guarantee a lower than 7 score. The fans want something like Neon Genesis Evangelion and the movies, where the movies made the animation quality better (Although I would argue that the movies suck compared to the TV release in terms of actually having a great story (After Evangelion movie 2 at least)). I however don't give a crap about nostalgia, so I will watch it. Although I agree 2D is better than 3D for an anime. |
 |
| Why? Because CGI looks worse than hand-drawn stuff 95% of the time. Only example of a well-done CGI, from my recent memory, is ONE scene from Rebuild of Evangelion, where Shinji was fighting against that blue shape-shifting angel. That angel actually looked good in CGI. But that's an exception. In all other cases of CGI in Rebuild movies, I thought it looked terrible, much worse than hand-drawn mecha scenes in 1995 NGE. |
| Why are you guys so fixated on this CGI debate? It's done by one of the few top notch japanese studio that knows how to use and implement the CGI, and they already proved themself with HnK and Beastars. Can't understand the concerns. I recently rewatched the og Trigun due to this announcement and oh boy... it aged really badly. The pace is all over the place, the animations are kinda bad, the Villain of the week structured episodes are forgettable and the comedic aspect is just barely ok overall. This new adaptation will surely be better than the og. |
| Vash as a kid looks pretty awful (wtf is with that hairstyle), but his adult self looks great. I also like the directing so far and CG doesn't have as much of a stiff look to it. I'm still going to approach this with caution though. Berserk 2016's final product was even worse than what was shown in the teaser trailer. |
| This may come to a surprise to some of you but Orange has actually already helped with the CGI Animation in Trigun Badlands Rumble movie as well back then. Caine's Statue, The Sandsteamer, the Plant and the Gasback Chase scenes. |
corrutect said: CGI anime is an acquired taste. I personally prefer traditional animation a lot more. There is no rational reason for it, CGI just looks ugly to me. Even Studio Orange stuff looks very "off" to me. Only exception is Arcane made by Fortiche Production. That one was really beautiful and I couldn't imagine this show in 2D. At the same time this argument doesn't matter. Not every anime is made for everyone. There is enough "traditional" anime for a lifetime. I thought the reason why I'd prefer even oldschool 2d animation vs modern CGI when it comes to characters in particular (for mechs, effects, ships, even some monsters, I'm all fine with CGI), and a main reason has to do with PRECISIVENESS. So, something like this obvious looks good & even older ones look good even with dated animation as it's still precise but retains the retro charm of the era:  But CGI could match it too in that case. However, when it comes to animating characters, that's where the awkwardness comes in CGI . For our case with Trigun now, it looks good for CGI, but ... floaty & while it has some good expressiveness, for CGI, it still doesn't match up to something that came a bit over two decades ago. So it's like, can praise it for being good CGI, better than other CGI, just how like someone could praise dubs for being good dubs, better than other dubs, but it ultimately inferior the OG.  |
ManlyTearOct 15, 2022 8:15 AM
| the character design bother me more than the CGI |
| Its because kids now a days or adults first getting into anime in this generation have no idea what animation is. Go back to some of the peak late 80's/90's hand drawn and cel animation and you will see why we detest this rapid wave of 3DCGI becoming a part of our industry. Frames are reduced so much that it looks robotic in nature, like your watching a PS2 fmv scene. Animation doesn't flow right and there is constant foreground and background objects that clash, where the scenes represented, seem like there are two existing layers on the canvas. For example you can have a person(object) in the foreground look at a character in the background and you can easly see how unrealistic they look when interacting with each other. Background scenes have this terrible annoying infinite loop of repeated objects which also makes it look very fake and computerized as seen in the new Full metal Panic Victory. Facial expressions are rotated around the vertical with 100 times the angles, using 3d software that gives so much more creative limits to graphic designers, but this is animation and art, its not a video game and so this is something they have never been able to master that well with 2d art which gives it a more stiff abnormal look as opposed to 2d facial animation. I can go on. and most of all because we hard core fans LOVED how organic and representative the art was in those days, almost like panels and pages of the manga are ripped out and imported into the scene with clever animation tricks to bring the scene alive. As fans that grew up with stuff like Trigun, Berserk, Outlaw star, Blue Gender, are not ready for this DRASTIC change. For sure nostalgia probably effects alot of pepole. |
ArtimesGamerOct 15, 2022 10:52 PM
  |
IchiroEX said: This may come to a surprise to some of you but Orange has actually already helped with the CGI Animation in Trigun Badlands Rumble movie as well back then. Caine's Statue, The Sandsteamer, the Plant and the Gasback Chase scenes. I am not an expert by any means, but there is a major difference between using CGI in certain action piece moments like in the case of stuff like Evangelion Rebuild or Yamato with explosion effects or depicting the battleship taking off, over using a full 3 dimensional CGI for both backgrounds and foreground characters like the Berserk adaptation and this. If they just stuck with adding certain CGI in specific set piece moments were its warrented and appropriate for the scene, then great but this whole new interest in trying to transition to creating a full production out of 3d animation and trying to animate 3 dimensional characters in an art style that is 2d anime is a recipee for disaster. Its like taking scenes out of Final Fantasy VII video game and importing them directly in an anime production well blending the two with 2d art. What would the result be? Thank god, FF XV and Advent children had no 2d art or animation, it was a pure CGI production which is why it looked so good. |
ArtimesGamerOct 15, 2022 11:09 PM
| |
Freestylex said: Because it's a complete departure from the iconic style that people loved with the original? This style captures none of what made the original liked. to be fair, a remake of a show as an exact 1;1 copy isnt exactly something people want |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Trigun Stampede Episode 12 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 )Stark700 - Mar 25, 2023 |
214 |
by Gero_Zeal
»»
Nov 27, 5:58 PM |
|
» Does this season leave off on a huge cliffhanger?kakashis_sidehoe - Oct 22 |
13 |
by vestaldestroyer
»»
Oct 28, 4:14 AM |
|
Poll: » Trigun Stampede Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 )Stark700 - Mar 11, 2023 |
70 |
by kirA_-_
»»
Oct 23, 12:48 PM |
|
Poll: » Trigun Stampede Episode 9 DiscussionStark700 - Mar 4, 2023 |
47 |
by kirA_-_
»»
Oct 23, 11:33 AM |
|
Poll: » Trigun Stampede Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 )Stark700 - Jan 28, 2023 |
90 |
by kirA_-_
»»
Oct 21, 6:50 AM |