86 Part 2 Episode 2 Discussion

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May 2008

427

AhriTheS3xyFox said:
Ewwww Shinei is wearing shoes while lying down on his bed....

Anyway, not a fond of the dialogue at all, no real in depth reason as to why the 86 want to head back to war but only because "they were raised or made to go to war only", while using a typical analogy comparing to the republic....

Well if you can't pick up visual storytelling then you are not going to have good time regarding this anime. It's not only dialogue.

Also there is depth

- They know only war
- Massive PTSD
- Survivor's Guilt
- They don't want to do the same thing as the Republic does. (Sitting behind a wall, enjoying life, pretending there is no war)

Oct 11, 2021 11:50 PM

#115

AhriTheS3xyFox

Offline

Sep 2015

2661

Or better yet, what they experienced helps them with their character development, while hence giving them more reason wanting to fight the war and trying to end it.

The dialogues from the little girl felt stilted.

They couldn't even come up an idea that war can end nor anything else on what they could do if the survive it out by the time the war ends. I can bet with you that people in real life that has been in this situation before gets enlightenment and changes, but its like all those slice of life scenes were for nothing.

August 6th 2023: Biggest upset ever, deception, selfishness, or scammed, manipulated. Heavy damage costs, and more. Days since: 15 Last updated: 8/21/2023

One Piece Episode 1041 & 1042 & 1047 & 1048 & 95.75%/1049 & 1053 were a mistake and Uta brought the salvation -AhriTheS3xyFox

Oct 12, 2021 12:04 AM

#116

Offline

May 2008

427

AhriTheS3xyFox said:
Or better yet, what they experienced helps them with their character development, while hence giving them more reason wanting to fight the war and trying to end it.

The dialogues from the little girl felt stilted.

They couldn't even come up an idea that war can end nor anything else on what they could do if the survive it out by the time the war ends. I can bet with you that people in real life that has been in this situation before gets enlightenment and changes, but its like all those slice of life scenes were for nothing.

Hmm as if being a soilder/being treated less than a human since hey were kids scarred them for life. It's not like in the real world in the US they have massive veteran social issues and federally funded social programs that help retired veterans reintegrate themselves to society.

Those SOL moments weren't for nothing. They experienced some peace, took some break, and now they are ready to go back.

As for Frederica I din't feel it stilted, but you do you.

UTMANOct 12, 2021 12:09 AM

Oct 12, 2021 12:08 AM

#117

Gabriel_Gaming

Offline

Apr 2021

118

AhriTheS3xyFox said:
Or better yet, what they experienced helps them with their character development, while hence giving them more reason wanting to fight the war and trying to end it.

The dialogues from the little girl felt stilted.

They couldn't even come up an idea that war can end nor anything else on what they could do if the survive it out by the time the war ends. I can bet with you that people in real life that has been in this situation before gets enlightenment and changes, but its like all those slice of life scenes were for nothing.

"You where basicaly slaves for Most of your Life, but because you had Like a few months of Peace everything is okeydokey now right?"

Like thats Not how this works. ASK any Person with any kind of major trauma, that Shit stays for you for your entire Life.

Gabriel_GamingOct 13, 2021 10:54 AM

Oct 12, 2021 4:50 AM

#118

Offline

Feb 2019

153

AhriTheS3xyFox said:
Or better yet, what they experienced helps them with their character development, while hence giving them more reason wanting to fight the war and trying to end it.

The dialogues from the little girl felt stilted.

They couldn't even come up an idea that war can end nor anything else on what they could do if the survive it out by the time the war ends. I can bet with you that people in real life that has been in this situation before gets enlightenment and changes, but its like all those slice of life scenes were for nothing.

You can't just feel peace like that easily even if you put out of the battlefield. Ofc they are pessimistic, they've seen the battlefield more than anyone, they even went to enemy lines. Besides, the enemy is not like any other, they're unstoppable. They can wipe out the peace at any moment

Oct 12, 2021 4:56 AM

#119

Offline

Feb 2019

153

AhriTheS3xyFox said:
Ewwww Shinei is wearing shoes while laying down on his bed....

Anyway, not a fond of the dialogue at all, no real in depth reason as to why the 86 want to head back to war but only because "they were raised or made to go to war only", while using a typical analogy comparing to the republic....

are you actually paying attention to the episode, they don't feel the life they have today, they don't have anything to fight but also have no reason to live either, it grows on them.

Oct 12, 2021 12:17 PM

#120

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Nov 2013

6704

My problem with 86, just like in seasons 1, is the poor depiction of war-time!
The war rages on the entire continent. It's a survival war.
Yet, people eat, drink, watch tv, have fun; no blackouts to preserve electricity, no curfew. There is no tension, no fear, no chaos, no desperation. Aren't the countries surrounded? Shouldn't resources be dwindling? Maybe Legion is just that bad and no one cares?

I don't know how well LN depicted these things, but I think anime fails at presenting the awful atmosphere of the world at war.

Oct 12, 2021 12:47 PM

#121

Offline

May 2008

427

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
My problem with 86, just like in seasons 1, is the poor depiction of war-time!
The war rages on the entire continent. It's a survival war.
Yet, people eat, drink, watch tv, have fun; no blackouts to preserve electricity, no curfew. There is no tension, no fear, no chaos, no desperation. Aren't the countries surrounded? Shouldn't resources be dwindling? Maybe Legion is just that bad and no one cares?

I don't know how well LN depicted these things, but I think anime fails at presenting the awful atmosphere of the world at war.

That's only San Magnolia, because the leadership wanted to keep up a facade that they are totally winning the war. Also the food there was shitty. Like artificial foods etc etc. So it would be out of character for them to do any of these things. If you listen to the news cast, every day they get the news that everything is peachy, they are beating the enemy every day, and with 0 causalty no less. So why would be there chaos or fear or anything? That's shows you how propaganda can be effective. Also there is no bombings in the 86 world (aside from the artillery), like in WW2, so civilians are not in danger that much.

The situation Giad is different case, their situation regarding the Legion is a way different story than San Magnolia's. It's not that desperate. I would not want to tell you more since it's kinda spoilery.

UTMANOct 12, 2021 1:50 PM

Oct 12, 2021 7:57 PM

#122

tensai95

Offline

Apr 2021

136

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
My problem with 86, just like in seasons 1, is the poor depiction of war-time!
The war rages on the entire continent. It's a survival war.
Yet, people eat, drink, watch tv, have fun; no blackouts to preserve electricity, no curfew. There is no tension, no fear, no chaos, no desperation. Aren't the countries surrounded? Shouldn't resources be dwindling? Maybe Legion is just that bad and no one cares?

I don't know how well LN depicted these things, but I think anime fails at presenting the awful atmosphere of the world at war.

I'm honestly not sure what 'atmosphere of the world at war' you're looking for when you've been presented with only two sides of a country in the first cour.

The Republic has been playing the defensive time game and ensuring that just enough is given to maintain the status quo of the 85 sectors. 86ers have to wait for irregular supply drops from the Republic and while having to fight off the legion. The war is real but its significance contrasts within these two groups whereby one isn't doing the actual fighting.

You also note that the countries (though only one) are surrounded. While normally that would have been a cause of concern, remember that the legion are only sending the bare minimum while preparing for their offensive. Even Lena didn't think that they would be that capable of such tactics. Her account showed the limits of what the Republic thinks of the war, something that should not even be of a concern where you need to dedicate all your resources to the war effort.

Oct 12, 2021 8:12 PM

#123

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Feb 2019

153

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
My problem with 86, just like in seasons 1, is the poor depiction of war-time!
The war rages on the entire continent. It's a survival war.
Yet, people eat, drink, watch tv, have fun; no blackouts to preserve electricity, no curfew. There is no tension, no fear, no chaos, no desperation. Aren't the countries surrounded? Shouldn't resources be dwindling? Maybe Legion is just that bad and no one cares?

I don't know how well LN depicted these things, but I think anime fails at presenting the awful atmosphere of the world at war.

Did you remember that the San Magnolia reporter said about their situation when its actually the contrary of their reality is? and remember, its takes place in the future where there might be some source of power. They've been not in attack and due to the media presented to them, their worries about the legion starts to dwindling. Maybe you failed to look at the details the world has been presented.

Oct 13, 2021 1:16 AM

#124

Valyrian1124

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Apr 2016

748

86 - season 2 episode 2

The new opening song is bad. Sounds like one of the dozen forgettable MHA opening songs. This shot was pretty cool, though.

I also don't like how the OP implies that the robo dog gets resurrected. We already have a lack of stakes due how they burned through all of the fodders too quickly and then walked back the robo dog's and Shin's deaths.

That other guy Shin met in the library having a little sister is so cliche. Can't it be a little brother for once?

Episode was surprisingly above average up until the 10 year old loli started monologuing like an adult and lecturing the the president. Cringe.

Lol Raiden tells the loli that he blames the Republic and hates their guts, which directly contradicts that episode from season 1 when Leina asked why the 86s would still fight for the Republic and they said they had no beef.

Would be interesting if the Republic and the Federacy got into a war, with Republican 86s facing off against the Spearhead legends and Federacy soldiers.

Oct 13, 2021 2:28 AM

#125

tensai95

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Apr 2021

136

Valyrian1124 said:

Lol Raiden tells the loli that he blames the Republic and hates their guts, which directly contradicts that episode from season 1 when Leina asked why the 86s would still fight for the Republic and they said they had no beef.

Raiden
"I don't know if you're the last empress or whatever, but it was the Republic who took everything from us. We're not going to suddenly forget that now."

You're misstating Raiden's words and implying that there is a contradiction/plot hole there. The loli was assuming responsibility for all the problems caused in these ten years, but he reiterated that it was the Republic who did it to them, not some infant who could've made that decision.

tensai95Oct 13, 2021 5:34 AM

Oct 13, 2021 5:01 AM

#126

soozle

Offline

Sep 2021

4

ahhh i loved seeing the slice of life stuff, they deserved a break
was a little bittersweet though as you can tell they still aren't at ease

Oct 13, 2021 6:08 AM

#127

WatchTillTandava

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Jun 2019

6638

Why are there suddenly supernatural elements like blood magic randomly appearing in a miliitary Sci-Fi and mecha series now?

I liked the more relaxed and subdued Slice of Life moments in this episode like the conversation between Anju and Theo in Republic Plaza, but I'm getting the sense early on there are going to be a lot of forced and unbelievable plot twists and turns in a short period of time in this season, which is giving me the feeling that it is going to be considerably weaker than the first.

(And I already had not insignificant complaints and issues with aspects of the first season, scored it lower than the MAL average, etc., but by and large it was a solid and effective story. Two episodes in is premature to judge in the sense of rendering any kind of final verdict obviously, but that's just the impression I'm getting that the first season will end up easily and demonstrably stronger because the plot requires a lot less wild leaps and feels more natural).

There's obviously enough in this show to have spurred me on to start watching the first season in the first place and then to come back months later for a second season, but I just hope the series doesn't go off the rails...

Oct 13, 2021 6:22 AM

#128

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May 2008

427

WatchTillTandava said:
Why are there suddenly supernatural elements like blood magic randomly appearing in a miliitary Sci-Fi and mecha series now?

There is no Blood Magic, It's an esper ability. And having espers is not that far-fetched from the Sci.-fi genre.
Also it's not sudden. idk if you noticed but Shin had powers in the first season too

Oct 13, 2021 6:48 AM

#129

Offline

Nov 2013

6704

UserAnonymous117 said:

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
My problem with 86, just like in seasons 1, is the poor depiction of war-time!
The war rages on the entire continent. It's a survival war.
Yet, people eat, drink, watch tv, have fun; no blackouts to preserve electricity, no curfew. There is no tension, no fear, no chaos, no desperation. Aren't the countries surrounded? Shouldn't resources be dwindling? Maybe Legion is just that bad and no one cares?

I don't know how well LN depicted these things, but I think anime fails at presenting the awful atmosphere of the world at war.

Did you remember that the San Magnolia reporter said about their situation when its actually the contrary of their reality is? and remember, its takes place in the future where there might be some source of power. They've been not in attack and due to the media presented to them, their worries about the legion starts to dwindling. Maybe you failed to look at the details the world has been presented.

You say I failed to look at the details while telling me "there might be some source of power"? In other words, assumptions/speculations equal to details?
Anyways, propaganda may prevent unrest yes, and being safe from Legion attacks keeps the morale high among the populace, BUT that has nothing to do with material side.
There is very little info on how the republic gets the artificial food, water and electricity from. Since San Magnolia is under siege for 9-10 years, the population should look struggled, no? By watching the anime, you literally only see few unsatisfied glances when it comes to eating artificial stuff. The toll of war should be higher. I mean, Magnolian propaganda may be on North Korea's level, but how do they manage to run their economy? San Magnolia may be the same NK minus starvation, but what about class divide, accessibility to things that are hard to make in war-times (tech-related; clothes, machines, medicine, fuel). We don't see squalor; everything looks neat.
Should we just assume that "it's future," so there must be some source that does what? Things that are convenient for the plot?

tensai95 said:

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
My problem with 86, just like in seasons 1, is the poor depiction of war-time!
The war rages on the entire continent. It's a survival war.
Yet, people eat, drink, watch tv, have fun; no blackouts to preserve electricity, no curfew. There is no tension, no fear, no chaos, no desperation. Aren't the countries surrounded? Shouldn't resources be dwindling? Maybe Legion is just that bad and no one cares?

I don't know how well LN depicted these things, but I think anime fails at presenting the awful atmosphere of the world at war.

I'm honestly not sure what 'atmosphere of the world at war' you're looking for when you've been presented with only two sides of a country in the first cour.

The Republic has been playing the defensive time game and ensuring that just enough is given to maintain the status quo of the 85 sectors. 86ers have to wait for irregular supply drops from the Republic and while having to fight off the legion. The war is real but its significance contrasts within these two groups whereby one isn't doing the actual fighting.

You also note that the countries (though only one) are surrounded. While normally that would have been a cause of concern, remember that the legion are only sending the bare minimum while preparing for their offensive. Even Lena didn't think that they would be that capable of such tactics. Her account showed the limits of what the Republic thinks of the war, something that should not even be of a concern where you need to dedicate all your resources to the war effort.

A nation under siege should have many problems. Especially when it comes to resources. Unless they get food, water, precious minerals, medicaments, fuel, electricity from plot-convenient sources, there should be more squalor at least. San Magnolia may have North Korea's level of propaganda, but "fake" food and lies are never enough to hide the reality and the toll of war. Maybe the LN tells how San magnolia manages to keep it's economy afloat and machines running, but the survival war is very weakly presented overall. At the end of season 1, we found out that the artillery shells fired by Lena, were mostly all fake shit. In other words, resources are scarce; so why don't we feel it in the city? Frontline = slaughterhouse, but that's basically all when it comes to the depiction of war-time crisis.

Now, if Legion has been utter garbage for those 9 or 10 years of war, it's possible to assume that the Republic gets supplies from outside of their control-zone through various ways. This again, makes the whole war and Legion super underwhelming; just like the whole show. The introduction of new nation is Season 2 made things worse. Instead of a world war, Legion threat seems like some minor rebellion in a countryside. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I can't stop but feel disappointed how both war and Legion are a joke.

Sigmar-UnberogenOct 13, 2021 6:52 AM

Oct 13, 2021 6:49 AM

#130

Offline

Nov 2019

203

UTMAN said:

WatchTillTandava said:
Why are there suddenly supernatural elements like blood magic randomly appearing in a miliitary Sci-Fi and mecha series now?

There is no Blood Magic, It's an esper ability. And having espers is not that far-fetched from the Sci.-fi genre.
Also it's not sudden. idk if you noticed but Shin had powers in the first season too

Annette literally explained that Para-RAID created based on the telepathic powers of her neighbors which turn out to be Shin's family.Even in ep12 it was mentioned that certain family has powers.

Oct 13, 2021 7:11 AM

#131

Offline

Feb 2019

153

Sigmar-Unberogen said:

UserAnonymous117 said:

Did you remember that the San Magnolia reporter said about their situation when its actually the contrary of their reality is? and remember, its takes place in the future where there might be some source of power. They've been not in attack and due to the media presented to them, their worries about the legion starts to dwindling. Maybe you failed to look at the details the world has been presented.

You say I failed to look at the details while telling me "there might be some source of power"? In other words, assumptions/speculations equal to details?
Anyways, propaganda may prevent unrest yes, and being safe from Legion attacks keeps the morale high among the populace, BUT that has nothing to do with material side.

Ok, I kinda mixed up some misinfo, but here's the thing that you never got attention to. The reporter said about the situation of war, their "zero" casualties and the "upcoming" end many times, like everyday to the point they will let themselves be comfortable to their situation. Its not the problem of the plot, its the problem of a country that just let the "pigs" do their job, they know what they can do but don't know what more they can also do, only the Eighty-six did. Don't put too much realism on that part, worldbuilding is not that big enough until S2, if you actually watched it, that country's mindset works on fiction but their deeds have been recorded in history, its not always the Nazi, just like some bozos always said about the series. About the artificial food, its in a spoiler area. You're right about no one cares about the legion but you're wrong at Legion being bad as they can get brains from their enemies to produce more intelligent legion and the rest is also spoiler area.

Oct 13, 2021 7:26 AM

#132

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May 2008

427

@Sigmar-Unberogen

I'm just gonna say this. You are too early to jump into conlcusions regarding your assumptions. San Magnolia is not under "siege". The Legion is not under the walls, and bombing the country with artillery to increase the attrition. During a normal human vs human siege the enemy cuts down every escape zone from the city and pollutes water sources, same reasaon: to increase attrition.

Legion doesn't do this. There is like a whole frontline between the walls and the Legion where the 86 lives. Legion doesn't kill wild life or pollute water sources so you can easily get these.

The introduction of new nation is Season 2 made things worse. Instead of a world war, Legion threat seems like some minor rebellion in a countryside. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I can't stop but feel disappointed how both war and Legion are a joke.

This part of your comment is just laughable, sorry. You are doing the very same thing as in the first part where you want ALL the information on like what, ep2? At least you didn't make a whole thread about it...(yet)

Oct 13, 2021 7:40 AM

#133

Offline

Nov 2013

6704

@UserAnonymous117

Ok, I kinda mixed up some misinfo, but here's the thing that you never got attention to. The reporter said about the situation of war, their "zero" casualties and the "upcoming" end many times, like everyday to the point they will let themselves be comfortable to their situation. Its not the problem of the plot, its the problem of a country that just let the "pigs" do their job, they know what they can do but don't know what more they can also do, only the Eighty-six did.

Dude, I know this. I understand that propaganda keeps people from getting desperate and incite revolts and such, but fear is by far not the only characteristics of war. San Magnolia is short on resources, but the anime shows that it either doesn't matter, or leaves an impression that San Magnolia simply possesses some "convenient" source to make fake replacements for everything; whether it be clothes, machines, medicine, munition or food. If that's the case, don't be upset, but I'd personally call it lazy writing.

You're right about no one cares about the legion but you're wrong at Legion being bad as they can get brains from their enemies to produce more intelligent legion and the rest is also spoiler area.

I won't mind spoilers about future Legion. Will they become at least slightly closer to Matrix/Terminator level of threat to humanity, or will they simply remain a nuisance with 1-2 "battle of the bulge" type of offensives? And, if yes, how soon will that happen? (this season? next?)

Oct 13, 2021 8:02 AM

#134

Offline

Nov 2013

6704

@UTMAN

I'm just gonna say this. You are too early to jump into conlcusions regarding your assumptions. San Magnolia is not under "siege". The Legion is not under the walls, and bombing the country with artillery to increase the attrition. During a normal human vs human siege the enemy cuts down every escape zone from the city and pollutes water sources, same reasaon: to increase attrition.

Legion doesn't do this. There is like a whole frontline between the walls and the Legion where the 86 lives. Legion doesn't kill wild life or pollute water sources so you can easily get these.

In other words, my POV on the war and Legion is correct. It's mega underwhelming.

The introduction of new nation is Season 2 made things worse. Instead of a world war, Legion threat seems like some minor rebellion in a countryside. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I can't stop but feel disappointed how both war and Legion are a joke.

This part of your comment is just laughable, sorry.

Why sorry? Did I say a joke?

You are doing the very same thing as in the first part where you want ALL the information on like what, ep2? At least you didn't make a whole thread about it...(yet)

Sure... if the story fails to explain the basics of the world in 13 total episodes, it's viewers fault that the writing and the presentation is mediocre at best. Combined, anime is nearly 5 hours long. I say it could and should've done better. It's ludicrous how you assume I want ALL the info ASAP. We hardly have any, so I wonder how long "It's only been X ep" will be a legit excuse? After 2 full seasons? 3? 4?

Oct 13, 2021 8:11 AM

#135

Sb98

Offline

Apr 2019

401

@sigmar-Unberogen Without the command of shepards, legions are not as big a threat to destroy a whole nation that easily. And shepards are limited in number. Also, if a country has well developed army, then they can keep the legion away from the populated areas. This is what happens in Giad. But in the frontlines, there are plenty of casualties. For San Magnolia though, the frontlines are all guarded by the eighty six, so even if casualties happen, no major loss is done to the Albas. Now, if the capitals are more or less safe (apparently) from the legion, then why won't the citizens of the Capitals live carefree life?

Oct 13, 2021 8:15 AM

#136

Offline

Feb 2019

153

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
@UserAnonymous117

Ok, I kinda mixed up some misinfo, but here's the thing that you never got attention to. The reporter said about the situation of war, their "zero" casualties and the "upcoming" end many times, like everyday to the point they will let themselves be comfortable to their situation. Its not the problem of the plot, its the problem of a country that just let the "pigs" do their job, they know what they can do but don't know what more they can also do, only the Eighty-six did.

Dude, I know this. I understand that propaganda keeps people from getting desperate and incite revolts and such, but fear is by far not the only characteristics of war. San Magnolia is short on resources, but the anime shows that it either doesn't matter, or leaves an impression that San Magnolia simply possesses some "convenient" source to make fake replacements for everything; whether it be clothes, machines, medicine, munition or food. If that's the case, don't be upset, but I'd personally call it lazy writing.

You're right about no one cares about the legion but you're wrong at Legion being bad as they can get brains from their enemies to produce more intelligent legion and the rest is also spoiler area.

I won't mind spoilers about future Legion. Will they become at least slightly closer to Matrix/Terminator level of threat to humanity, or will they simply remain a nuisance with 1-2 "battle of the bulge" type of offensives? And, if yes, how soon will that happen? (this season? next?)

On your sense, yes. I think your one of those ppl that thinks "worldbuilding" needs to be instant, I'm not offended ofc, humans have different brains so whatever. Yeah, they are, lets just say from how far that I read, they make a "superweapon" that can now easily can invade countries, a new type that matches to that "man's" ability, that's what I remember, and btw Vol 1 is just a competition writing, it means it just a solo series and undecided to make some expansion until some distributors recommend it to expand the story and here we are, its not lazy, its just it has that circumstances at that time before Asato build some worldbuilding in this series. Just watch S2 and show again your thoughts

Oct 13, 2021 8:15 AM

#137

Offline

May 2008

427

@Sigmar-Unberogen

In other words, my POV on the war and Legion is correct. It's mega underwhelming.

Quite the contrary. You couldn't be further from the truth. It's a horde enemy. They outnumber you and bleed you out with sheer numbers. Just like a zombie movie. Also you are wastly underestimating the Legion. They spent that whole 8-9 year to come up with solutions to their 10 year lifespan. The way they fight is going to change. Also it has been said that the Legion is prepearing for something and they don't take the war seriously at this moment.

Sure... if the story fails to explain the basics of the world in 13 total episodes, it's viewers fault that the writing and the presentation is mediocre at best. Combined, anime is nearly 5 hours long. I say it could and should've done better. It's ludicrous how you assume I want ALL the info ASAP. We hardly have any, so I wonder how long "It's only been X ep" will be a legit excuse? After 2 full seasons? 3? 4?

Nitpicking the shit out of the show and then calling it "basics" is priceless. You have everything you need to know for now.

- San Magnolia basically spends all their Resources on leisurement rather than Military---> This is why you see the civilians having it nice. They don't have everything covered. That is why you see the artillery functioning only about 50% and this is why the Juggernauts are really badly made. So this gives you an answer to your resource issue.

About the fear and chaos, we told you about the freaking Propaganda. So this answers this.

I established that the Legion is not literally sieging San Magnolia. So there's that.

And now you have whole new country whose war-situation with the Legion is unknown for now.

UTMANOct 13, 2021 8:45 AM

Oct 13, 2021 10:00 AM

#138

Offline

Nov 2019

203

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
@UserAnonymous117

Ok, I kinda mixed up some misinfo, but here's the thing that you never got attention to. The reporter said about the situation of war, their "zero" casualties and the "upcoming" end many times, like everyday to the point they will let themselves be comfortable to their situation. Its not the problem of the plot, its the problem of a country that just let the "pigs" do their job, they know what they can do but don't know what more they can also do, only the Eighty-six did.

Dude, I know this. I understand that propaganda keeps people from getting desperate and incite revolts and such, but fear is by far not the only characteristics of war. San Magnolia is short on resources, but the anime shows that it either doesn't matter, or leaves an impression that San Magnolia simply possesses some "convenient" source to make fake replacements for everything; whether it be clothes, machines, medicine, munition or food. If that's the case, don't be upset, but I'd personally call it lazy writing.

You're right about no one cares about the legion but you're wrong at Legion being bad as they can get brains from their enemies to produce more intelligent legion and the rest is also spoiler area.

I won't mind spoilers about future Legion. Will they become at least slightly closer to Matrix/Terminator level of threat to humanity, or will they simply remain a nuisance with 1-2 "battle of the bulge" type of offensives? And, if yes, how soon will that happen? (this season? next?)

They are already threat, even what are doing is enough cause of their ever growing number. But in ep 12 or pt2 ep1 Lena mentioned that she thinks large scale Legion offensive is coming based on what Shin mentioned previously that they are gathering forces at rear.

Oct 13, 2021 10:40 AM

#139

Offline

Nov 2013

6704

@UTMAN

Quite the contrary. It's a horde enemy. They outnumber you and bleed you out with sheer numbers. Just like a zombie movie. Also you are wastly underestimating the Legion.

My "underestimation" comes from what I've seen in this anime so far. So far the war seems bad for Lena and 86. Since the nations, both, don't take Legion seriously, it's a sign that Legion has not done anything "impressive" to cause sufficient concern and dedication. AND when I said fear and unrest, I didn't mean citizens of San Magnolia ALONE! San Magnolia has propaganda and fake supplies, but what about this new country? How come the remnants of the empire have it EASY? When I initially said that there is no war-like atmosphere, I meant food and supplies being directed to the front; in other words, military prioritized over civilians; mass-conscription, electricity preservation, curfew (AGAIN, not talking about San Magnolia here). A nation doesn't need to be bombed constantly for this to occur. Wars are always costly! And what do we see? We have festivals, food-stalls, tv-shows, fancy dress-shops, mass traffic, smartphones (though education is not affordable to everyone for some reason lol). Everyone treats Legion as a joke, but the viewers shouldn't because we've already seen an evidence that Legion is competent and a threat??? Where's the evidence that it can be a threat? So far, they've been a joke with no hints to prove us wrong. I mean, if 86 with half-broken and undersupplied mechs can stop wave after wave, imagine 86 with full support by nation similar or stronger than San Magnolia! I blame the show for such poor depiction of a supposedly powerful enemy.

Nitpicking the shit out of the show and then calling it "basics" is priceless. You have everything you need to know for now.

Ever wondered that already knowing the source may cloud one's vision when judging an anime? No, we don't have everything we need to know for now. We don't know why Lena's traitorous outlook on 86 is tolerated (and she wasn't even a handler yet); we don't get to know the basics of the world outside San Magnolia. How big is it? How big San Magnolia is? How San Magnolia manage(d)s to fend off legion attacks despite using 86 as canon fodder? Why is legion so underwhelming? Why no air-units? Why no communication with the outside world? Why didn't the crew desert sooner? The show could've hint the answers to avoid being seen as shallow, poor and boring; hence why I keep finding more and more things to rant about.

- San Magnolia basically spends all their Resources to leisurement rather than Military---> This is why you see the civilians having it nice. They don't have everything covered. That is why you see the artillery funcioning only about 50% and this is why the Juggernauts are really badly made. So this gives you an answer to your resource issue.

How do you conclude that San Magnolia spends all their resources on leisurement? Anime does indeed show that Juggernauts are badly made and the Artilery is shit. Juggernauts being bad can be explained with 1)they're meant for expendable 86 anyways, 2)not enough resources, 3)both combined. When it comes to artillery though, we find out that it WAS NOT meant to support 86, so 50% shells being fake means San Magnolia lacks resources even to defend the nation in time of crisis! This blunder can easily be explained with 1)they don't have enough resources, 2)San Magnolia high-command relies on 86, 3)They believe the Legion won't be able to annihilate them even if 86 fail - and this makes even less sense.
Anime doesn't provide info on how San Magnolia has the ability to keep civilians happy (I mean, fake food and propaganda? Is that it?) Where's the evidence that the leaders prioritize citizens over the military, when it comes to diverting resources? When it comes to self-defense, resources are depleted; but when it comes to living a normal life, there's only lack of real food (sometimes)?

I established that the Legion is not literally sieging San Magnolia. So there's that.

You established that, anime didn't. We were shown a piece of map depicting San Magnolia surrounded. Where's the evidence IN ANIME to suggest that Legion isn't besieging the nation. And if that's the case, why didn't 86 desert? Also, this doesn't change the fact that both war and legion are underwhelming, considering the 9 years of war and how Legion defeated the empire that was supposedly far stronger and larger than San Magnolia.

And now you have whole new country whose war-situation with the Legion is unknown for now.

Not entirely unknown. We see that there is more freedom and EVEN BETTER life conditions here than in San Magnolia. In other words, the anime still failed to show how this war is concerning to anyone except for Lena and 86. Through lies or truth, civilians in both nations we encounter have it WAY TOO EASY! The war's supposed to be happening on the same continent! Meanwhile, Legion hasn't done ANYTHING to be considered a threat even by the viewers who are aware that Legion is plotting something.

With how anime depicts the legion and the war, I have all the evidence necessary to presume that they're both underwhelming, pathetic, and poorly depicted overall.

Oct 13, 2021 11:01 AM

#140

Offline

Nov 2013

6704

@Pranavk27

They are already threat, even what are doing is enough cause of their ever growing number. But in ep 12 or pt2 ep1 Lena mentioned that she thinks large scale Legion offensive is coming based on what Shin mentioned previously that they are gathering forces at rear.

How can you say that they're a threat though? I mean, yeah, they've been a threat to 86, but no nation seems too concerned about Legion. Even the livelihood of citizens is hardly affected by the war!

I do have a feeling that Legion will show it's true strength one day, but my problem is with how the show depicts the war. It leaves you with an impression that 86 and the old empire were the only victims of the war and the citizens of San Magnolia and the remnants of the empire are hardly affected by the war.

Oct 13, 2021 11:32 AM

#141

Sb98

Offline

Apr 2019

401

How can you say that they're a threat though? I mean, yeah, they've been a threat to 86, but no nation seems too concerned about Legion. Even the livelihood of citizens is hardly affected by the war!

Bruh you literally have two episodes of content about Giad. I'm assuring you, the condition of this new country isn't that much good either. And that'll be shown in upcoming episodes. Only city you've seen yet is Sankt Jader, the capital of Giad, which is located quite far away from the heavily legion affected area. So, people don't really need to worry about legion all the time in this city.

Also, you've already pointed out I guess, that the Vanagandrs pretty strongly built compared to the juggernaut. The government officials in Giad are well aware of the threat posed by the legion and they act accordingly. Does that mean the legions are so weak that no causality happens? Ofc no. At the frontlines, casualties happen often, due to various reasons. Sometimes the smaller legion units outnumber them, sometimes

attacks. And, if you are asking how is Federacy not running out of resource? It's also quite obvious. It's the biggest country in the continent. And not all of it is affected by the legion.

For San Magnolia, I guess you've already understood most of it yourself/by the help of others in this thread. I'm not gonna explain all that shit again.

Also, believe us, we're not making anything up lmao. All of these info are there in the novels. In the anime also, they've shown most of the details about San Magnolia. The details about Federacy will be shown in this season.

Oct 13, 2021 11:48 AM

#142

Offline

Nov 2019

203

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
@Pranavk27

They are already threat, even what are doing is enough cause of their ever growing number. But in ep 12 or pt2 ep1 Lena mentioned that she thinks large scale Legion offensive is coming based on what Shin mentioned previously that they are gathering forces at rear.

How can you say that they're a threat though? I mean, yeah, they've been a threat to 86, but no nation seems too concerned about Legion. Even the livelihood of citizens is hardly affected by the war!

I do have a feeling that Legion will show it's true strength one day, but my problem is with how the show depicts the war. It leaves you with an impression that 86 and the old empire were the only victims of the war and the citizens of San Magnolia and the remnants of the empire are hardly affected by the war.

Shin literally said that Republic will fall.
Just because there is war going on doesn't mean citizens stop living normal lives at least not all citizens especially if they are living in a place far from battlefield.Those who want to help the country doing it in their own ways like Eugene who decided to join the military as he is aware that peace will not last and fight might come to their place.
As for the Republic citizens they are living in "fake peace" cause of government propaganda and they dont want to get out of it as it is benefiting them or don't have the courage to face the truth. Just because you are not aware that someone is holding a gun behind you , ready to shoot and kill you doesn't mean you are not in danger.
Of course Republic is also the victim of the war but their situation could have been way better if they remain united rather than throwing war on 86s instead they are digging their own graves.

Blue_Reaper7Oct 13, 2021 11:55 AM

Oct 13, 2021 11:56 AM

#143

Offline

May 2008

427

@Sigmar-Unberogen

My "underestimation" comes from what I've seen in this anime so far. So far the war seems bad for Lena and 86. Since the nations, both, don't take Legion seriously, it's a sign that Legion has not done anything "impressive" to cause sufficient concern and dedication. AND when I said fear and unrest, I didn't mean citizens of San Magnolia ALONE! San Magnolia has propaganda and fake supplies, but what about this new country? How come the remnants of the empire have it EASY? When I initially said that there is no war-like atmosphere, I meant food and supplies being directed to the front; in other words, military prioritized over civilians; mass-conscription, electricity preservation, curfew (AGAIN, not talking about San Magnolia here). A nation doesn't need to be bombed constantly for this to occur. Wars are always costly! And what do we see? We have festivals, food-stalls, tv-shows, fancy dress-shops, mass traffic, smartphones (though education is not affordable to everyone for some reason lol). Everyone treats Legion as a joke, but the viewers shouldn't because we've already seen an evidence that Legion is competent and a threat??? Where's the evidence that it can be a threat? So far, they've been a joke with no hints to prove us wrong. I mean, if 86 with half-broken and undersupplied mechs can stop wave after wave, imagine 86 with full support by nation similar or stronger than San Magnolia! I blame the show for such poor depiction of a supposedly powerful enemy.

And this is what I told you before. You want everything ASAP, right now! You only knew about the Federation since like 1 and a half episode. And you want to know EVERYTHING about it. Like dude...seriously.

You only know that San Magnloia doesn't take this seriously. They have a misinformation that the Legion going to end in 2 years, the legion is a stupid hivemind,and their numbers are decreasing---> They have a sense of security based on wrong information that they have literally zero idea that it is false.

Okay... then for the Giad, i'm going to spoil, because i'm soo freaking fed up with you.

Ever wondered that already knowing the source may cloud one's vision when judging an anime? No, we don't have everything we need to know for now. We don't know why Lena's traitorous outlook on 86 is tolerated (and she wasn't even a handler yet); we don't get to know the basics of the world outside San Magnolia. How big is it? How big San Magnolia is? How San Magnolia manage(d)s to fend off legion attacks despite using 86 as canon fodder? Why is legion so underwhelming? Why no air-units? Why no communication with the outside world? Why didn't the crew desert sooner? The show could've hint the answers to avoid being seen as shallow, poor and boring; hence why I keep finding more and more things to rant about.

Now you making up questions that has been already answered in your Part 1 topics and by the first half of anime. It's literally tirening to break down every single details to you because you are either impatient or just the information went over your head.
Lena is top handler and her CO. has major promotions and awards because of her kill count so he bites his tongue and do the paperwork regarding her insubordination.
Here is literally a map of San Magnolia:
https://imgur.com/frboJ68
I told you already, the Legion is not sending full force to San Magnolia, also SM doesn't let the soilders to collect bodies, so guess what. Free-brain estate for the Legion.
Leggion is atm preparing for something, and also trying to overcome the 10 year old lifespan. Also they are fighting a multi front war. Not just against SM and Giad.
Why no air units/communication --> The steel butterflies the Entersfliege jams all communication and they are anti-air units (this will be mentioned this cour). The crew didn't have any supply to desert. They got a huge-ass amount of supply and ammunation before they deployed, before that they only got a reduced amount of supply. And deserting is suicide, also goes against their whole core.

How do you conclude that San Magnolia spends all their resources on leisurement? Anime does indeed show that Juggernauts are badly made and the Artilery is shit. Juggernauts being bad can be explained with 1)they're meant for expendable 86 anyways, 2)not enough resources, 3)both combined. When it comes to artillery though, we find out that it WAS NOT meant to support 86, so 50% shells being fake means San Magnolia lacks resources even to defend the nation in time of crisis! This blunder can easily be explained with 1)they don't have enough resources, 2)San Magnolia high-command relies on 86, 3)They believe the Legion won't be able to annihilate them even if 86 fail - and this makes even less sense.
Anime doesn't provide info on how San Magnolia has the ability to keep civilians happy (I mean, fake food and propaganda? Is that it?) Where's the evidence that the leaders prioritize citizens over the military, when it comes to diverting resources? When it comes to self-defense, resources are depleted; but when it comes to living a normal life, there's only lack of real food (sometimes)?

No, it shows that San Magnolia doesn't want to spend any extra resources than necessaary for the 86. Regarding yoru evidence, it's just deduction from the "show and don't tell" aspect of the show. If a country has money for:
- To make festivals and do fireworks
- There is no rationing regarding the civilians
Also higher officers keep mentioning that they don't want extra work done just to save a few 86 etc. From all of this you can safely conclude that their resource management and their attitude towards war is shit. And before you jump on me, that why didn't they fell already, because it is benefitial for the Legion to have an idiot country that provides them with brains and they can make black sheep and shephards and do all kind of experiment with brains.

You established that, anime didn't. We were shown a piece of map depicting San Magnolia surrounded. Where's the evidence IN ANIME to suggest that Legion isn't besieging the nation. And if that's the case, why didn't 86 desert? Also, this doesn't change the fact that both war and legion are underwhelming, considering the 9 years of war and how Legion defeated the empire that was supposedly far stronger and larger than San Magnolia.

Definiton of Siege: "A siege is a military blockade of a city, or fortress, with the intent of conquering by attrition, or a well-prepared assault. --> You cannot siege a country, you can siege a city or fortress. But let's say i'm wrong and you are right. And it is a Siege. I want you to take a reaaaally good attention for the "well-prepeared assault" part. This will be coming.

Not entirely unknown. We see that there is more freedom and EVEN BETTER life conditions here than in San Magnolia. In other words, the anime still failed to show how this war is concerning to anyone except for Lena and 86. Through lies or truth, civilians in both nations we encounter have it WAY TOO EASY! The war's supposed to be happening on the same continent! Meanwhile, Legion hasn't done ANYTHING to be considered a threat even by the viewers who are aware that Legion is plotting something.

With how anime depicts the legion and the war, I have all the evidence necessary to presume that they're both underwhelming, pathetic, and poorly depicted overall.

Regarding Giad look at my previous paragraphs. Legion is prepearing and have other priorities. It's like WW2 were a series, S1 would be the Phoney War, and you would be complaining that "BUT IT'S WW2 AND NOTHING HAPPENING" and people who know about operation barbarossa, battle of france are laughing their asses of from your comments.

UTMANOct 13, 2021 12:35 PM

Oct 13, 2021 12:42 PM

#144

Offline

Nov 2013

6704

@UTMAN

Jesus dude... I don't need you explaining why San Magnolia are bunch of losers. The anime clearly shows the incompetence and overconfidence of San Magnolia - I don't need you telling me this. The show FAILS to show why and how the people still live happily despite 9 year-long war (We're not talking about the FRONTLINES ALONE!). It doesn't tell if gathering resources outside the control zone is possible or done. That's what YOU said. It just shows that people are not afraid, they have food (though artificial), water, heat, electricity, automobiles - where it comes from? Same shit with the new country. Try to understand my PoV. This anime tells a story about a rogue AI army in total war against humans, and yet we see yet another nation that is like "yeah there's war out there, also I guess I'll go watch a movie or eat in a restaurant." Instead of Germany vs France in ww1, the war with legion feels like US vs Vietnam. And we see it form US citizens POV. We see people who are involved in the war, but the war's somewhere on the other side of the world, and it's not like Vietnamese can invade the US, so people don't care too much as their livelihood is affected only a little.

I have BEEF with the show because it shows war-times in a very simplistic and toned-down way, without bothering to give us context on how that is possible at least; and I assume it won't bother to explain this in the future as well.

Oct 13, 2021 12:59 PM

#145

Offline

May 2008

427

@Sigmar-Unberogen

I totally understand your PoV. But you need to see that the anime showed you why that's the case in SM. Also you need to see that we was only shown District 1. Which is like the richest district. This district where the biggest nobles and the richest Alba live. Obviously you are not going to see a lot of misery in this district. Yes the anime could have shown Districk idk 75. where idk mostly peasants live (idk if that's the case) but that's not the story the first cour wanted to tell.

We only saw Giad in like 1.5 episode. And we only saw the capital so far, which is far away from the front so people don't give much attention to the war. Also as I said Giad is doing pretty good so faar against the Legion.

Oct 13, 2021 3:38 PM

#146

Shirayukin

Online

Aug 2010

2390

A full episode for the Spearhead, and it's about them just living their life normally. It was really nice to see.

Frederica's character is still too unbelievable for me to take her seriously.

Oct 13, 2021 7:15 PM

#147

w3b0shi

Offline

Oct 2011

236

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
My problem with 86, just like in seasons 1, is the poor depiction of war-time!
The war rages on the entire continent. It's a survival war.
Yet, people eat, drink, watch tv, have fun; no blackouts to preserve electricity, no curfew. There is no tension, no fear, no chaos, no desperation. Aren't the countries surrounded? Shouldn't resources be dwindling? Maybe Legion is just that bad and no one cares?

I don't know how well LN depicted these things, but I think anime fails at presenting the awful atmosphere of the world at war.

It affects them. It's literally one of the reason why the Albas of San Magnolia had to
separate the 86 not only because they're racists, they're using also using that as an excuse to preserve their own race AND their resources. Isn't the systematic genocide of the 86 exactly a result of the war if you think about it?

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand but hasn't it already been mentioned several times that they are under the assumption that the war will end soon? That the Legion, without a doubt, will shut down soon? Call it incompetence, but surely the people at San Magnolia do have reason to be carefree when they're fixed at the idea that the war will end without them putting much effort themselves.

Countries can actually deal with the Legion *at this point of the anime*. They just happen to be stuck in a stalemate -- they're not exactly winning, but they're not losing that bad either... until the next couple of chapters/volumes happen. And you also have to consider that it has almost been 10 years since the war started. That long of a stalemate would've had at least brought some normalcy, or false sense of peace which is why they can still afford to celebrate holidays and whichever. Just think of the situation with Covid-19. There's a lot of uncertainty during the first couple months it broke out, but now it almost feels like it's part of our daily life.

You see, the thing with 86's anime is that it obviously needs you to fill in the blanks yourself. It's not going to spoon feed you with its history, but if you still can't "buy in" to its story then that's for you to decide whether you didn't have enough imagination or couldn't suspend your disbelief. Eitherway there are already enough dots for you to connect that it isn't that difficult to find a logical answer to your questions.

It's not necessarily lazy writing, but moreso a product of which theme, aspect, detail to prioritize considering that the first season's story was meant to fit in just one book with page restrictions.

w3b0shiOct 13, 2021 7:49 PM

Nope.

Oct 14, 2021 9:30 AM

#148

Takao_Bl00driver

Offline

Oct 2020

134

Haaah, nitpicky always ruining this discussion.
Ignoring trolls and troublemakers is the best.

Oct 14, 2021 9:27 PM

#149

Karsaaa

Offline

Apr 2018

992

Damn what a plot twist with the Princess use to be the Empress of the Legion who commanded all the legions to attack the empire.

Oct 14, 2021 9:48 PM

#150