| The question is in the title. Sound off and let me hear what you think. I'll give you my take though. I think anime is similar to some American movies, tv shows, and cartoons aimed at children. They want people to feel good and be happy. For example, in pro wrestling people like to see the hero more than the bad guy because the hero works hard to overcome the odds. The same goes for anime and the other medium I mention. People like seeing the hero win. That is why some of our most popular heroes in western media(Spiderman, Batman, Wonderwoman, and Superman.) rarely lose and if they do there is an excuse. The same goes for anime. Since most people watching this are under the age of 18 and may be experiencing something like a Fire Force, Demon Slayer, and My Hero Academia for the first time ever. So why not make them happy? If the hero loses, they would be sad and stop watching. I think that is why anime like asspulls so much. This isn't every anime and having an asspull doesn't make your show outright bad but if you keep it up, you'll pay for it.(Seven Deadly sins). |
| I got a Masters degree. I don't have to worry bout school anymore. |
olajuwon20 said: Oh season 3 decides to kick it up. Season 2 it comes up at times. The main dude is becoming a mini John Cena. The power levels is what ruined it for many. They established power levels and then have them be ignored for the sake of plot. When it comes to shows like the Seven Deadly Sins, I've never seen very many moments where the characters won by chance. I still have yet to watch the third season, but based on what I've seen from the first and second seasons, the main characters had a tough time fighting characters like Hendrickson and the Ten Commandments. |
| I got a Masters degree. I don't have to worry bout school anymore. |
| I agree with everything you said. Sadly, hero losing would make anime so much interesting, at least from my perspective. Even if we compare OG Pokémon, Ash did lose from time to time or lost something precious. I also don't understand the whole appeal "Let's tell audience how the story ends in the beginning (happy ending)". It means MC is more likely to survive and we have no reason to fear for him then. Where's the excitement in that? |
 |
| Quoting Junya Inoue, the creator of Btooom! "I feel like, in recent years, manga and video games have started to lean toward being about service. Even though we have all this entertainment available, everyone's too busy to have any time to enjoy it. So consumers only want to see things that amuse them. That's why stories are judged after just one chapter or one volume and dropped lickety-split. I feel thats why the industry is desperate to cater exactly to the audience's tastes so that they dont lose them." I think this applies to anime too. |
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| Sometimes only through them the story can progress and to even make everything more interesting you have to pay the cost of an "asspull" later on because as you said the wouldn't want the hero to fail ultimately. Even if most anime were neutral were the hero could die at one point and have the series end in the villain's favor, such techniques would probably still take place to resolve critical situations. |
Vendea said: Reminds me of FF10 where they kept telling you who was the main villian nonstop. I agree with everything you said. Sadly, hero losing would make anime so much interesting, at least from my perspective. Even if we compare OG Pokémon, Ash did lose from time to time or lost something precious. I also don't understand the whole appeal "Let's tell audience how the story ends in the beginning (happy ending)". It means MC is more likely to survive and we have no reason to fear for him then. Where's the excitement in that? I think sometimes it is okay because people like the journey. We got with My Hero Academia but it has been so much fun to watch Deku and Class 1-A's journey. |
| I got a Masters degree. I don't have to worry bout school anymore. |
MasterHavik said: That is why some of our most popular heroes in western media(Spiderman, Batman, Wonderwoman, and Superman.) rarely lose and if they do there is an excuse. I mean, what else is there than either winning or losing because of [insert reason]? Losing for no reason? You just sound like someone complaining for the sake of complaining. Calling it an 'excuse' is just your lazy generalization, but what it actually is is a reason of some sorts, which is a good thing. Losing for no reason is a bad thing. Just in general, when you have a story with a clear main character, why would you ever want him to lose? When would that ever make narrative sense? Especially since in many cases losing would mean him dying and the story just ending there. That's not good storytelling, it makes no sense. Losing just for the sake of it has no real value from a writing perspective. Why would you ever expect that, or be surprised or annoyed that it doesn't happen often enough? Why would you ever even consider that a problem? You don't even need to talk about fan expectations, it's just inherent to writing making sense and having meaning in the first place. Just structurally speaking, the MC gets to be the MC because they don't lose quickly and theor story is over, otherwise their story wouldn't be worth telling and wouldn't be told. Obviously there are always exceptions, but they're called exceptions for a reason, because the norm, the standard, the common sense approach is to have the main characters be successful and not fail, and definitely not fail without any reason or meaning behind it. That's why there's always a reason, always a caveat, always a lesson when the main character loses. At least in good writing. You calling that an 'excuse' and basically proving that no matter what you'll find a way to complain about it (when they win it's because of 'asspulls', when they lose it's because of 'excuses'), is not a very productive or even halfway substantial criticism to be honest. Even the word 'asspull' that you base your whole thread on, is nothing more than a buzzword at this point. I'm pretty sure that half or more of the things people like you call asspulls are only asspulls to you because you choose to see them as such, but for me they can be rationalized and make some sense because I'm not nitpicky for the sake of it and would rather use my mental capacities to interpret a scene in a way that makes sense than interpreting it in a way that doesn't. "Asspull", as used by 99,9% of people, is all but an objective term. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Probably because everything that isn't explained repeatably to the average viewer is an 'asspull'. Doesn't matter if the power-up fits or victory works within the logic of the show. It's like some people expect every character to enter the hyperberolic time chamber and have multiple training episodes that showcases what they are going to do before every fight. People have called the following asspulls: Demon Slayer: episode 19 Hunter X Hunter: Gon vs Pitou BHA: Deku vs Overhaul One Piece: Luffy vs Doflamingo None of them are. |
 |
| As long as Anime and Manga writers write themselves into a corner time and time again, ass pulls will always be a thing. It's their free get out of jail card |
Pullman said: Where did you get losing for no reason from? I just want clean Ls in the same vein Gon took in Hunter x Hunter. Like here is an example of one of the four characters I listed for stupid reason. Batman was fighting Superman one time and needed Green Arrow to randomly surpise attack Superman with kryptonite arrow to win. Stuff like that I fucking hate. I'm vey familiar with the material of the heroes I listed and count on one hand how many real loses they have took on one hand. MasterHavik said: That is why some of our most popular heroes in western media(Spiderman, Batman, Wonderwoman, and Superman.) rarely lose and if they do there is an excuse. I mean, what else is there than either winning or losing because of [insert reason]? Losing for no reason? You just sound like someone complaining for the sake of complaining. Calling it an 'excuse' is just your lazy generalization, but what it actually is is a reason of some sorts, which is a good thing. Losing for no reason is a bad thing. Just in general, when you have a story with a clear main character, why would you ever want him to lose? When would that ever make narrative sense? Especially since in many cases losing would mean him dying and the story just ending there. That's not good storytelling, it makes no sense. Losing just for the sake of it has no real value from a writing perspective. Why would you ever expect that, or be surprised or annoyed that it doesn't happen often enough? Why would you ever even consider that a problem? You don't even need to talk about fan expectations, it's just inherent to writing making sense and having meaning in the first place. Just structurally speaking, the MC gets to be the MC because they don't lose quickly and theor story is over, otherwise their story wouldn't be worth telling and wouldn't be told. Obviously there are always exceptions, but they're called exceptions for a reason, because the norm, the standard, the common sense approach is to have the main characters be successful and not fail, and definitely not fail without any reason or meaning behind it. That's why there's always a reason, always a caveat, always a lesson when the main character loses. At least in good writing. You calling that an 'excuse' and basically proving that no matter what you'll find a way to complain about it (when they win it's because of 'asspulls', when they lose it's because of 'excuses'), is not a very productive or even halfway substantial criticism to be honest. Even the word 'asspull' that you base your whole thread on, is nothing more than a buzzword at this point. I'm pretty sure that half or more of the things people like you call asspulls are only asspulls to you because you choose to see them as such, but for me they can be rationalized and make some sense because I'm not nitpicky for the sake of it and would rather use my mental capacities to interpret a scene in a way that makes sense than interpreting it in a way that doesn't. "Asspull", as used by 99,9% of people, is all but an objective term. But I will throw you a bone and say jsut having them randomly lose is bad writing. Season 1 of Justice League cartoon had a bad habit of Superman getting beaten up because went out of their way to make him low weaker so the other members could look good instead of just showing the other members being just as strong as him. I don't like that. On the flip side, when you get an ending like an Ashita no Joe or Ultimate Muscle that shows me you have the balls to do what others wouldn't. The hero doesn't need to fully win all the time but getting sick of established rules being broken just to protect a main character. For example, if you have power levels and the main character is actually out class he or she should lose. You can sue this as a chance for them to grow and let another character shine. JFuji said: The fights you listed. (Even the One Piece one and I don't watch that show but seen thsoe fights) are good examples of not asspulls but the main characters actually using their skills to win without bullshit. Espeically in the Hunter x Hunter and Demon Slayer example. Like there were clear reasons why they won. Tajiro was fucked and got saved by his sister. Gon, like he always does, outsmarts his opponent. Anyone who calls thsoe asspulls are jsut mindlessly haters. I'm not in that crowd. Probably because everything that isn't explained repeatably to the average viewer is an 'asspull'. Doesn't matter if the power-up fits or victory works within the logic of the show. It's like some people expect every character to enter the hyperberolic time chamber and have multiple training episodes that showcases what they are going to do before every fight. People have called the following asspulls: Demon Slayer: episode 19 Hunter X Hunter: Gon vs Pitou BHA: Deku vs Overhaul One Piece: Luffy vs Doflamingo None of them are. I do not like random fucking power ups. Fire Force had a lot of that. |
| I got a Masters degree. I don't have to worry bout school anymore. |
| Senpai makes a question Senpai answers the question |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
| Because they need to keep making the enemy stronger than previous ones and they will reach a point where the enemy is too strong, driving the writer to a corner resulting in an asspull. |
| Is there really that many things outside of anime and other children oriented mediums were the heroes lose that much? Because I must really be missing out. |
| a preoccupation with the anus i suppose |
Teach a man to cook, and he can’t fish. But teach a man to fish, and he feeds himself and cooks. -👧 ( ° ω ˣ ) |
| I don't. I like how One Piece did it. We aren't shown what the characters did over 2+ years, so it leaves open much room for story after the timeskip. I think it's pretty odd to call Gear Fourth an asspull, we know Luffy and others worked extremely hard during the Timeskip. There was no need for him to use it prior to Dressrosa. Anyway, yeah. I like to see my characters earn abilities and feats through hard work. But the thing is asspull is used way too much and at this point anything can be called an asspull. |
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