| Do you think the obsession with panty-shot fanservice and the seriously problematic behavior of perverts taking upskirt photos of teenage girls at trains, along with the sexualization of under-age school girls might be closely related? I'm not saying watching ecchi will turn men into molesters, but still, you can't ignore that it's the culture of Japan that makes this fetish a thing. Maybe, once Japan starts dealing with this problem seriously, the amount of panty-shots, and perhaps ecchi in general will decrease in anime? |
| This is the same like asking if porn has anything to do with all the rapes. To which the answer is no. In fact you can say that it decreased such cases. |
| Are you saying we should reduce ecchi shows? Words of a heretic |
 πππ«π«π π±π¬π²π π₯ πΆπ¬π², πππ«π±π¦π«' πΆπ¬π² π΄π¦π±π₯ ππ©π© πͺπΆ πͺπ¦π€π₯π± ______________________ |
| Just ban Anime and the problem is solved. |
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| I thought this thread was about Food Wars Season Three at first |
 What's the difference? |
| I mean it's skeezy and I don't like it. Not sure what pleasure it is to see up an anime girls skirt in that fashion, especially when it's tasteless and never done subtlety. *shrug* Ecchi just deserves better. It can do better. |
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| No and it's not a matter of an opinion so don't present it as such there are statistical and psychological studies about porn and and sexual crime, there is little to no correlation between these not to mention ecchi is not in any way 'culture of japan', not for any significant percentage, calling it this way is just stupid NathanaelODV said: Birth rate in Japan decline because Japanese boys and men are into 2D waifus. They spend money on moe anime merch mostly with cute girls, buy galge and eroge, and go to a maid café to eat Omurice. So its a good measure for a healthy economy in Japan. XD impact of a small percentage of 'otaku' on overall nation's birth rate and stuff is minimal you must be fucking delusional to think anime is to blame for this, and not the whole way their society works, especially when it comes to job and working hours |
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| Dunno, but we sure could use a lot less ecchi shows and pantyshots. |
Imaishi said: No and it's not a matter of an opinion so don't present it as such there are statistical and psychological studies about porn and and sexual crime, there is little to no correlation between these not to mention ecchi is not in any way 'culture of japan', not for any significant percentage, calling it this way is just stupid going to reiterate this, you're being an idiot again @SuperRed, dunno what's been up with you lately but you've been behaving more or less like Alex except on the opposite side Though I technically don't have the deal with you, unlike Alex, so maybe should just add to block list and save myself the headache of dealing with another shitposter of that caliber Stripes said: I mean it's skeezy and I don't like it. Not sure what pleasure it is to see up an anime girls skirt in that fashion, especially when it's tasteless and never done subtlety. *shrug* Ecchi just deserves better. It can do better. Subtlety doesn't equal inherent superiority (in fact when it comes to things rooted in sexualization there are many cases where it can outright work against it) and tastefulness is an incredibly vague and relative metric so idk what you could even mean by that I want it to be better too but I don't think subtlety or "tastefulness" are necessarily the way to go in that, just make it more raunchy and overt in these aspects if anything, give less of a fuck about things like that and wear itself on its sleeve |
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| Thought this was going to be about Rail Wars, which I think has all 3 as the entire show |
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YayaChibi said: I agree! Japan caused all those women in the medieval days to have to sell their bodies to become aristocrats Japan caused Donald Trump to rape all those women Japan caused you to not have anything better to do with your life and write this thread. Nice try OP I think this is the first I've seen you make a post without using "lol / lmao" |
The question shouldn't be about sexualization - it should be about the normalization of sexualized children and activities done without the lack of consent of involved parties. |
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| I guess this is like some sort of obligation when you have a MAL account , you have to talk about Ecchi at some point or you won't be a proper member of the MAL community. There are no trains in my country anyway so no problem πππ |
| It's established in studies that there is not a direct correlation between sexual crime and sexual media as other users have pointed out. Akihabara makes a lot of profit from the anime fetish crowd so I don't see it disappearing anytime soon |
| Same thing, just because you love lolis means you're a pedophile. |
Manaban said: Stripes said: I mean it's skeezy and I don't like it. Not sure what pleasure it is to see up an anime girls skirt in that fashion, especially when it's tasteless and never done subtlety. *shrug* Ecchi just deserves better. It can do better. Subtlety doesn't equal inherent superiority (in fact when it comes to things rooted in sexualization there are many cases where it can outright work against it) and tastefulness is an incredibly vague and relative metric so idk what you could even mean by that I want it to be better too but I don't think subtlety or "tastefulness" are necessarily the way to go in that, just make it more raunchy and overt in these aspects if anything, give less of a fuck about things like that and wear itself on its sleeve I'll admit my wording on it was a bit wrong. The way I meant to frame it wasn't the subtle was in fact better. But the way these ecchi series are directed are either constantly winking at you like as if you didn't know why you were there in the first place (like an idiot) or super shameless which I think can be done correctly, in fact I think stuff that is more blatant and out there with it's sexuality is much more respectable (High School of the Dead) but having the girls just be naked and call the main dude master constantly isn't blatant it's just shoving all it's money on the table and probably calling you dirty words in the process. I guess my way of putting it is. I think there can be class and respect to a script and directing to make ecchi much more fun or actually hot. But it's so cheap and almost down right boring that stuff that isn't ecchi seems to be more hot with it subtlety putting sexual hints in it's shots. |
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Stripes said: But the way these ecchi series are directed are either constantly winking at you like as if you didn't know why you were there in the first place (like an idiot) Usually ecchi is determined through movement and framework and scenario, and I don't recall ever seeing or feeling such a way except in KLK where it would sometimes literally have Mako tell me how sexy things were because, like other series Imaishi directed, KLK is inconsistent at framing these elements well and instead opts for emphasis on movement which is largely negligible compared to framework if you ask me, both by itself and how it just isn't being utilized to maximum efficiency if you're not framing it at an appropriate angle Stripes said: but having the girls just be naked and call the main dude master constantly isn't blatant it's just shoving all it's money on the table and probably calling you dirty words in the process. Really? Usually it's other anime fans calling me dirty names and labeling me often very unfair things, while also very often telling me that what creators are doing is just taking advantage of me for money and insulting my intelligence and that I should want better, even though I don't at all feel that way and see no reason to do so ._. Like very often the same people who will say things like "it's for basement dwelling neckbeards who can never get laid" and then turn around and tell me the creators of these series are who is insulting me, and it just becomes this confusing clusterfuck of "is this person insane" more than anything like is the concept of people drawing and creating series centered around sexy and sexualized anime girls because they want to and not just to exploit an audience of drooling monkeys, just this alien, ungraspable concept to some people And like I can go look at panels from manga like TLR:D and see retarded amounts of miniscule details in the drawings put in to slip past censors and such and it all looks like nothing but a lot of care and effort to me with that in mind. Like a lot of this stuff tends to genuinely come across as being more made by an audience member for other audience members than a lot of other stuff I've consumed and it's not only niche but outright being kind of falling out of place in the current market yet somehow people still treat it as safe money or even money printing whenever the reality is and has always been "it's niche" But whether I'm correct on that or not, I do not even remotely begin to see how intelligence is not being insulted because a series gives me fanservice and tittes and sexy girls running around half naked, I'm sorry Stripes said: I guess my way of putting it is. I think there can be class and respect to a script and directing to make ecchi much more fun or actually hot. But it's so cheap and almost down right boring that stuff that isn't ecchi seems to be more hot with it subtlety putting sexual hints in it's shots. Well to understand what you're thinking it could be improved here I'm going to need a bit more explanation because I don't see where you're coming from if I can be honest what do you mean "but it's so cheap" specifically, that's the part I'm mostly interested in rn, sorry if it comes across as rude or demanding for asking to draw attention to that specifically tho |
ManabanApr 24, 2018 2:02 PM
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_Ako_ said: Same thing, just because you love lolis means you're a pedophile. Well......lolis ain't right to be honest. |
Manaban said: But whether I'm correct on that or not, I do not even remotely begin to see how intelligence is not being insulted because a series gives me fanservice and tittes and sexy girls running around half naked, I'm sorry. I'm not saying you inheriently should feel that way about everything or anything. I enjoy fanservice, I just think most of the time even outside of ecchi, the girls are treated as a spectacle and an image before being treated as a character or even a purpose in the story other then bait. Does everything need a story in junction? No. But I'd say more of these series rely on the loosest amount of story or through line to show you panty shots or clevage. I mean maybe that's what some people come for explicitly but maybe I just expect more of my media. Why should I care about these tits, I can look up "anime tits gif" on google and get the same experience. Manaban said: Stripes said: I guess my way of putting it is. I think there can be class and respect to a script and directing to make ecchi much more fun or actually hot. But it's so cheap and almost down right boring that stuff that isn't ecchi seems to be more hot with it subtlety putting sexual hints in it's shots. Well to understand what you're thinking it could be improved here I'm going to need a bit more explanation because I don't see where you're coming from if I can be honest what do you mean "but it's so cheap" specifically, that's the part I'm mostly interested in rn, sorry if it comes across as rude or demanding for asking to draw attention to that specifically tho I say it's cheap because I don't believe these show runners really care to put much thought past how relatable the dude is and how hot the girls are. Any and ever other part of production is pretty lack luster. From backgrounds, to any semblance of character progression. I mean if you just come here for an image then why is there even a story to speak of. I wouldn't even say these series have a semblance of fantasy to them other then something akin to Monster Musume. Despite your stance on KLK I think it's good in the fact that it has the reason the girls are dressed that way. Talks about the themes of being naked and sexuality. I think it's really clever for what it drives for. And I'm not saying shit has to be plot heavy or have that intrinsic of a reason but I'd say most of these series hardly explore any of these two facets. I mean you have something like Shoukugeki that uses the sexual aspect for food but plays fanservice for both genders and it's only used in a metaphorical sense to it's statements. Both series use the ecchi nature in two totally different ways and have female characters that aren't cookie cutter and have their own agency. Maybe you're not looking for that kind of mixture of sexual leisure and great characters. That's fine. |
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| I would say yes, it is connected, though of course not all cases. Monkey see monkey do, people try to think watching something can't change them even though it can. Emphasis on the word "Can" though. Just because i play an FPS doesn't mean i'm going to be a killer but there are always those who are more easily influenced. |
| Yeah, and playing gta makes you kill people. |
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| 1. No, pantyshots go back to the 60s, was the declining birth rate an issue then? Um also pretty sure that the extreme fetishism of panties has to do with the fact that Japan didn't have them until post WWII and they were seen as something sexually "unique" 2. Theres already less pantyshots in anime now Stripes said: I mean it's skeezy and I don't like it. Not sure what pleasure it is to see up an anime girls skirt in that fashion, especially when it's tasteless and never done subtlety. *shrug* Ecchi just deserves better. It can do better. Yea well you know... that's just like uh, your opinion, man @Hey_Taka-tin_Hey Why are you always in these threads? |
EcchiGodMamsterApr 24, 2018 3:13 PM
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Stripes said: I just think most of the time even outside of ecchi, the girls are treated as a spectacle and an image before being treated as a character or even a purpose in the story other then bait. Does everything need a story in junction? No. But I'd say more of these series rely on the loosest amount of story or through line to show you panty shots or clevage. I mean maybe that's what some people come for explicitly but maybe I just expect more of my media. Stripes said: Despite your stance on KLK I think it's good in the fact that it has the reason the girls are dressed that way. Talks about the themes of being naked and sexuality. I think it's really clever for what it drives for. And I'm not saying shit has to be plot heavy or have that intrinsic of a reason but I'd say most of these series hardly explore any of these two facets. Stripes said: Maybe you're not looking for that kind of mixture of sexual leisure and great characters. That's fine. If you want me to sit out and explain in much greater detail I will - I like these things, the history of how these concepts developed in anime and have looked into them to the best of my ability, so I feel confident explaining what happened to cause things to develop in such a way and how we're at where we are now - but long story short: how things function within a narrative is largely irrelevant to the appeal of the characters in a lot of these cases and a lot of their appeal as characters lies independently of as much. This is how things developed due to fan response and a lot of ecchi series are centered and evoking that kind of appeal. Ecchi and fanservice is very often tied to moe in what moe was originally meant to mean. As an example, I can sit here and describe Run as a character for a few walls of text and what I love about her so much in terms of who she is, but if I were to describe her role in the narrative, it's literally just "two-faced rival to the main girl of the original series who obsessively seeks out the MC's affection and becomes an idol at some point" and as such she just sounds like a terrible, shallow character, which I would object to. Looking at her exclusively within her narrative function is reductive to her because she is not defined solely or even primarily by her role within the series' narrative. Her role in the story is not her character appeal. Even in more narrative oriented series it tends to push the character over the role they play within the narrative and as such a lot of the same ends up applying to them. Like I said, it's kind of how things developed and started doing so way back when. It'll just take a while to sit down and write out, like, more than most walls of text I've written on this site, so I kind of don't want to unless you're interested as well. I just don't have any interest in actually arguing further on that point either way, though, it'll just turn into selfish demanding, from either myself or you - probably me, admittedly, I'm extremely tired of this conversation about the role of narrative in ecchi given how many times I've discussed on this board, frankly, and worry I'd be much more prone to just giving out more tortured and forced responses if we continued. Not blaming you for that and I hope it doesn't come across that way, but ye. I honestly do not think you understand how major the changes you ask for are, though, and I think what would end up happening is that it'd appeal to a different audience entirely and so it'd function as something that doesn't get placed alongside the TLRs or DxDs of anime and instead functions separately from them. Detached and different. Nothing wrong with that, mind you, and I have no objections to it existing whatsoever, but still very different. |
ManabanApr 24, 2018 4:11 PM
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| @Manaban We were arguing? I thought we were having a decent discussion. I also wasn't relegating your taste as bad. I'm just saying stuff like the seasonal pander and majority is like this. I haven't ventured to much in this genre because I don't want to dig half a season to get to whatever redeeming quality the series might have. What I'm asking for is just a story for these series that isn't the same junk just more t&a. I don't think that's asking for a lot or being an extreme change for the genre. And according to the mal chart (as much as it's worth) those series I mentioned were at the top, so I don't think it's warping the whole perception of the genre. ¯\_(γ)_/¯ Sure is. Thanks for the validation. |
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NathanaelODV said: Birth rate in Japan decline because Japanese boys and men are into 2D waifus. They spend money on moe anime merch mostly with cute girls, buy galge and eroge, and go to a maid café to eat Omurice. So its a good measure for a healthy economy in Japan. No, it's more to do with the overwork issue and not having time or energy for relationships Pretty sure otaku are too niche to affect that, altho it can serve as an alternative |
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| I mean those men are going to catch a case so even if ecchi anime is the source, I'm sure the problem is being dealt with. |
Please, keep saying awesome stuff like this |
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Stripes said: And according to the mal chart (as much as it's worth) those series I mentioned were at the top, so I don't think it's warping the whole perception of the genre. There's also been a lot of arguments about whether or not they should or should not be considered ecchi, and also tend to have very significant peripheral audiences who tend not to like ecchi but exclusively like those two series specifically Personally I've written a lot about why I think KLK is terrible at the actual ecchi aspects (which, ironically, before i started walling about how shit it was in that regard people really pushed it hard as how ecchi should be done and then later told me in defense 'well imaishi didn't want it that way' so lul i guess) and I don't even think Shokugeki has enough fanservice to even warrant the tag to begin with and I have no clue why it does if I can be perfectly honest with you There are shows that also aren't ecchi and are just anime with a couple of fanservice scenes that still have more of this sort of thing than Shokugeki does, I think the mere fact it possesses the tag to begin with is kind of ludicrous like why, maybe even the first season i'll cede a bit (cough a lot cough) of ground even though it did get pretty diminished the longer it went on but the second season had practically nothing, it's practically misguiding to put it there anyway w/e, i really strongly believe that approaching it from a more narrative oriented perspective would rip out a lot of what makes it so appealing and i'm not at all for the idea, focus more on ecchi and narrative should be subservient to as much |
ManabanApr 24, 2018 4:28 PM
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NathanaelODV said: Birth rate in Japan decline because Japanese boys and men are into 2D waifus. They spend money on moe anime merch mostly with cute girls, buy galge and eroge, and go to a maid café to eat Omurice. So its a good measure for a healthy economy in Japan. No, it's has more to do with the cost of living and the government welfare system. Birth rate is also extremely low in developed region like Hong Kong, Singapore and Korea (which currently have even lower birth rate compared to Japan). Raising children is no small decision. When people cannot even maintain their quality of life and keep their job, they are not having children. |
| I think school girls over 13 years old are sexual, there is no need to sexualize something that are already sexual. They are "underage" in law because they are not mentally mature enough to respect their body and make decision for themselves, so we have to protect them. Finding sexual appeal in school girls, or young women, are normal behaviour. I don't think it's really a concern unless they are breaking the law. |
| I think cramming an excessive amount of people onto a train is going to bring about people who were already predisposed to those kinds of actions. But even excluding that there's a long history of why underwear is heavily sexualized in Japan that very much predates anime. One example being in the post WW2 depression only prostitutes really wore western style underwear, not to mention it wasn't until the 1950s that shame in regards to indecent exposure started to become a thing which probably fueled the fetish aspect (even the government at the time campaigned for women to wear underwear to protect their chastity). So the fault I'm getting at with your post is your conclusion is backwards. Anime didn't create the idea of heavily sexualized panties that's corrupting the public, 90 years of history did that. So no lowering the amount of content in anime won't change a culture that had already established that concept. It's just a scapegoat the same type that's used with games, movies, etc. (Also ignoring the much more faulty aspect that you're complaining about what amounts to predominately late night anime for a super niche market as if it's a widespread issue) |
| If you respect them even though they may wear shameless attire by your standard, then you shall not commit a crime. If you unleash your desire upon seeing them in real life, it's not the fault of anime industry. We can have this kind of conversation once porn industry becomes illegal. |
nbyung09 said: I think school girls over 13 years old are sexual, there is no need to sexualize something that are already sexual. Mate.....no. I dont think you understand sexuality or sexualisation. School girls over 13 are definitely NOT sexualised by nature and sexualistion by perverts DOES happen. Also, I see others here talking about porn but it's not the same. 1) porn features adults, anime a lot of times sexualised minors that look like 10 years old. 2) the whole point of porn is just to see sex, indugle in some more weird fantasies and be done once you jack off. Whereas in "normal" shows we see them as more of reflecting real characters and real behaviors. When you see girls getting sexualised in that context it is kinda worse. Honestly, I really dont know why any western anime fan, people who didnt grow up around otaku culture, would be accepting of ecchi,npantyshots and pervert behavior in general. |
james501Apr 25, 2018 4:46 AM
james501 said: Mate.....no. I dont think you understand sexuality or sexualisation. School girls over 13 are definitely NOT sexualised by nature and sexualistion by perverts DOES happen. Of course they are not fully-grown, but 13 or 14 is about when their body get sexual, some secondary sexual characteristics are developed and it's not like they don't realize it. There are always middle school girls that would participate in compensated dating to earn quick money (which sometimes get turned into prostitution), because they know they have an attractive body. |
YayaChibi said: EcchiGodMamsterP said: Please, keep saying awesome stuff like this K Ecchi shots do not only provide the viewer with entertainment, but they are typically animated/drawn in a fashion which is not usually used in the show. They are sexy, enjoyable, and generally visually appealing. They are fucking great and the excesive amount of threads saying they aren't on MAL are bound to be shitpost lol lmao 2/10 You didn't say that theyre fap fap fap :D |
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| People like you shouldn't watch anime if you're just gonna complain about non-issues like this. This is like complaining about the lack of a certain hairstyle in a show. |
GuyWRunningShirt said: Thought this was going to be about Rail Wars, which I think has all 3 as the entire show My thoughts exactly, wtf with this thread and false hype I mean " Ecchi, panties, and trains" could be the blurb on the Blu-Ray box of Rail Wars. |
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| I was just about to comment something about rail wars. Too bad is a bait thread about anime being guilty of satanism. |
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| Rail Wars is so bad it's not even funny :( |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| As much as I'm going to kick myself for doing this for A) showing a YT video as the primary content of a post and B) continuing this frankly shitposty thread, @Deknijff just showed me a Digibro video while I was rambling to him about finally getting to see Ran in Urusei Yatsura and when I got done with that I went ahead and watched it. I've never been an outspoken proponent of the guy, but I do think it is one of the genuinely cooler videos he's made and I think it'd be worth a watch for anybody seeing this. Take my word for it or don't, it defends fanservice and sexualization but it also does so in a way that I actually think is good and also decently balanced and taking people who take issues with things like the rapey-vibes into account as well. It's only about 5 minutes long, anyway. Also, to answer Dekn since I was typing this :> |
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Manaban said: Imaishi said: No and it's not a matter of an opinion so don't present it as such there are statistical and psychological studies about porn and and sexual crime, there is little to no correlation between these not to mention ecchi is not in any way 'culture of japan', not for any significant percentage, calling it this way is just stupid going to reiterate this, you're being an idiot again @SuperRed, dunno what's been up with you lately but you've been behaving more or less like Alex except on the opposite side Though I technically don't have the deal with you, unlike Alex, so maybe should just add to block list and save myself the headache of dealing with another shitposter of that caliber Stripes said: I mean it's skeezy and I don't like it. Not sure what pleasure it is to see up an anime girls skirt in that fashion, especially when it's tasteless and never done subtlety. *shrug* Ecchi just deserves better. It can do better. Subtlety doesn't equal inherent superiority (in fact when it comes to things rooted in sexualization there are many cases where it can outright work against it) and tastefulness is an incredibly vague and relative metric so idk what you could even mean by that I want it to be better too but I don't think subtlety or "tastefulness" are necessarily the way to go in that, just make it more raunchy and overt in these aspects if anything, give less of a fuck about things like that and wear itself on its sleeve Now that offends me Man, not the idiot part, but comparing me to fucking Alex :/ Look, it was a simple question, what is the root of the fetish for panties that shows itself in both ecchi and the lecherous behavior of some people in trains? Is it the same? No need to get angry. Anyways 15poundfish gave me a good answer. |
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