thewiru said: "Consuming": Consume: To use up a resource You don't "use" an anime if you watch it, nor does the act of you watching it influences in the act of other people watching it. If you consume an apple, there's no more apple after you did that. This is not applied to anime. Same goes for taking. If i take a photo of a key and make a copy of that key, did i take/stole the original key? You "use" an anime by "watching" it, no? There's something you paid to watch too, you know? Or you think all "paid to watch" is something not to consider? |
"I'm tired, Boss. Mostly I'm tired of people being ugly at each other." - John Coffey, Green Miles |
| Another topic trying to justify their stealing. Don't worry, no one is gonna care if you watch illegal streams of cartoons. |
| @KuroudoAkabane Well, you may still consider as a crime, but it is not stealing, the word for it is plagiarism. Reminder that in the following years that the Wright Bros patented the airplane they would just sue anyone who tried to make airplanes. So there is not a strict definition for plagiarism either. ZunuSan said: Piracy is not stealing anime, it is stealing the benefits that are obtained from these. And anime is not a solid object, it is an abstract object like ideas, so a lot of people can steal and have them at the same time. The definition of stealing requires it to be a solid object (Or liquid, or a gas, i think that plasma and super-critic state also count). |
| I really hate when people try to justify piracy. |
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thewiru said: so you telling me Burger King stole the recipe from McDonalds too?"You telling me Pepsi stole the recipe from Coca Cola without my knowledge?" It can be McDonalds and Burger King, my point stays the same. thewiru said: But it is. But you seem to have some kind of agenda so you're dismissing it from what it is. That or you're not very bright on the subject honestly The problem is that it is not stealing. thewiru said: Yes certainly but in this instance the crime itself is stealingJust because something is a crime doesn't mean it is stealing. thewiru said: He had an idea. Thats something. Not something physical but something you can admit exists in some way of form How can you steal something from one who never had that something? That's why "stealing credit" makes no sense thewiru said: reread what I saidTherefore, pirate anime sites are illegal distribution, bot not stealing. Deknijff said: They are copying the product without consent or in other words stealing. To then upload it onto their own site for people to watch for free which they aren't supposed to be able to do thewiru said: taking a product you don't own is stealing though which is what they are doing and you're doing every time you use an illegal site to watch your shows. You can't say "in other words, stealing", that's not the definition of stealing. |
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thewiru said: @KuroudoAkabane ZunuSan said: Piracy is not stealing anime, it is stealing the benefits that are obtained from these. And anime is not a solid object, it is an abstract object like ideas, so a lot of people can steal and have them at the same time. The definition of stealing requires it to be a solid object (Or liquid, or a gas, i think that plasma and super-critic state also count). Please, read your own definition of stealing. |
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Elegade said: So would you like to coin a new term for it then? How is taking money from proper licencors and publishers not theft? It is stealing, but you're not stealing the work itself, you are practically taking away a source of potential revenue for the studio whenever you pirate. Lets even take this further and use Youtube as an example, I make a boss ass video that I am really proud of, I got 10k views on it, the next day a Youtube channel with millions of subscribers downloaded my video and posted it on their channel and it got a million views. Now how is that not stealing? Now you're wondering that's not the same cause blah blah blah, but all media except royalty free stuff are protected under the Digitial Millennium Copyright Act. You actually don't take money from anyone. And if "stealing a potential" is a thing, you might as well call it "Schrodinger's theft". And the studio will still gain the same money even before you watch it, they have already been paid by Crunchyroll or similares services if that's the matter. About Youtube, that is still not stealing. The only thing is that they CAN'T say it is theirs nor not say you were the creator. As long as they say in any way or form that you're the creator and not them, i see no problem in that, i even see that as advertising. |
thewiru said: Elegade said: So would you like to coin a new term for it then? How is taking money from proper licencors and publishers not theft? It is stealing, but you're not stealing the work itself, you are practically taking away a source of potential revenue for the studio whenever you pirate. Lets even take this further and use Youtube as an example, I make a boss ass video that I am really proud of, I got 10k views on it, the next day a Youtube channel with millions of subscribers downloaded my video and posted it on their channel and it got a million views. Now how is that not stealing? Now you're wondering that's not the same cause blah blah blah, but all media except royalty free stuff are protected under the Digitial Millennium Copyright Act. You actually don't take money from anyone. And if "stealing a potential" is a thing, you might as well call it "Schrodinger's theft". And the studio will still gain the same money even before you watch it, they have already been paid by Crunchyroll or similares services if that's the matter. About Youtube, that is still not stealing. The only thing is that they CAN'T say it is theirs nor not say you were the creator. As long as they say in any way or form that you're the creator and not them, i see no problem in that, i even see that as advertising. Man, the people who run pirate pages win money from them. Money they don't deserve, because they don't have the rights to usufruct those anime. |
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| Digibro made a video on this a few weeks ago where he spoke in favour of unofficial streaming sites because they offer a better product than the official streams & he also mentioned that buying a Blu-Ray only supports distributors & the higher ups in the production companies while the animators continue to be exploited. |
ZunuSan said: Consuming anime is actually watching it. And for the key thing, you do not steal the original, but you have something that it's suppose that you must not have. Yep, but you're not stealing, so don't use the word "stealing". Kuraokani said: That's by far the stupidest argument I've ever heard on this topic. Comparing digital media to apples? What the f*ck? Let's use a different comparison, shall we? Let's say that you own a bakery. Your bakery is open Monday-Friday and you're closed Saturday and Sunday. Now let's say that one Saturday, I decide that since you're closed anyways, I'll open your shop and sell goods myself. I'll use your tools, kitchen, and building... but, at the end of the day, I'll keep all the money. I didn't steal anything so I'm not in the wrong. All I did was use something that you created with hard work, to make money for myself without permission. I know that's not a fantastic comparison but, its close enough. That is not stealing, that is actually invasion and illegal use of private property Though that argument might work if you're a mutualist. "so you telling me Burger King stole the recipe from McDonalds too?" That also works for "Random guy that made a chair" and "Another random guy that also made a chair" "But it is. But you seem to have some kind of agenda so you're dismissing it from what it is. That or you're not very bright on the subject honestly" If my agenda is the truth, then yes, i have an agenda. "Yes certainly but in this instance the crime itself is stealing" Not, it isn't "taking a product you don't own is stealing though which is what they are doing and you're doing every time you use an illegal site to watch your shows." That pressupposed that if you take it, the original owner won't have it anymore, which isn't the case for anime. Also, copying isn't stealing. That was a little joke of mine. In order for it to be stealing, one must lose something. |
YuiHirasawachan said: Digibro made a video on this a few weeks ago where he spoke in favour of unofficial streaming sites because they offer a better product than the official streams & he also mentioned that buying a Blu-Ray only supports distributors & the higher ups in the production companies while the animators continue to be exploited. Whether or not a better service, it is stealing, and nothing will change that. |
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thewiru said: Elegade said: So would you like to coin a new term for it then? How is taking money from proper licencors and publishers not theft? It is stealing, but you're not stealing the work itself, you are practically taking away a source of potential revenue for the studio whenever you pirate. Lets even take this further and use Youtube as an example, I make a boss ass video that I am really proud of, I got 10k views on it, the next day a Youtube channel with millions of subscribers downloaded my video and posted it on their channel and it got a million views. Now how is that not stealing? Now you're wondering that's not the same cause blah blah blah, but all media except royalty free stuff are protected under the Digitial Millennium Copyright Act. You actually don't take money from anyone. And if "stealing a potential" is a thing, you might as well call it "Schrodinger's theft". And the studio will still gain the same money even before you watch it, they have already been paid by Crunchyroll or similares services if that's the matter. About Youtube, that is still not stealing. The only thing is that they CAN'T say it is theirs nor not say you were the creator. As long as they say in any way or form that you're the creator and not them, i see no problem in that, i even see that as advertising. I see, so you are a fan of Jinx. I'm sorry to tell you this, but you're retarded. You have no knowledge of copyright issues and you should not be spreading this type of lies if your mindset it like that. Anime studios should just publish their work freely onto the internet and not expect to make a profit because apparently they'll still get money some way right? You also have no knowledge of simple business if you think that they'll get paid the same if you either pirate it or watch it through crunchyroll. If 95% of people just pirate anime and not watch it through the proper channels, the industry will die. You're the type of person that doesn't understand money and hard work if you think that my example B about Youtube is not stealing. |
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ZunuSan said: Man, the people who run pirate pages win money from them. Money they don't deserve, because they don't have the rights to usufruct those anime. No one loses money in order for them to gain money(Well, supposing that the ad company profits). They gain money via ads, and you can't say it is "money they don't deserve", be it on a webpage with pirated anime or just a random page with ads, ad money is still ad money. They don't gain any money from the anime they pirate, they gain from ads. |
| Don't bother, none of your arguments will convince them. Even when dictionaries state that "theft" is to take away the property of an owner, while "piracy" is unauthorised use or reproduction of someone's property. By definition, they cannot be the same since piracy doesn't deprive the owner of their property. These fools have already made up their minds and will butcher the actual definitions of these words so that they will fit their narrative. Ignore them. |
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| [quote=thewiru message=52082823] ZunuSan said: That was a little joke of mine. In order for it to be stealing, one must lose something. Hmm, what about the money they must perceive for the anime they made? Yeah, I know they receive the same money if you watch anime legally or illegally, but that's only because Crunchyroll and the sponsors pay it. So who is losing something are the legal streaming pages and the sponsors. |
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Elegade said: I see, so you are a fan of Jinx. I'm sorry to tell you this, but you're retarded. You have no knowledge of copyright issues and you should not be spreading this type of lies if your mindset it like that. Anime studios should just publish their work freely onto the internet and not expect to make a profit because apparently they'll still get money some way right? You also have no knowledge of simple business if you think that they'll get paid the same if you either pirate it or watch it through crunchyroll. If 95% of people just pirate anime and not watch it through the proper channels, the industry will die. You're the type of person that doesn't understand money and hard work if you think that my example B about Youtube is not stealing. Who is Jinx? And also, you are being an utilitarist, this thread never was about "if piracy if good or bad", this thread, since it's beginning, was about that pirating anime isn't stealing, and it isn't stealing. Whether or not this is good or bad for the indusry is irrelevant in this discussion(And let's not forget anime wouldn't have such fame it has in the west if not for piracy). |
ZunuSan said: thewiru said: That was a little joke of mine. In order for it to be stealing, one must lose something. Hmm, what about the money they must perceive for the anime they made? Yeah, I know they receive the same money if you watch anime legally or illegally, but that's only because Crunchyroll and the sponsors pay it. So who is losing something are the legal streaming pages and the sponsors. Well, that's a good point, but i must remind you anime piracy existed long before Crunchyroll. Not to mention, you consider that if someone didn't have piracy, they would NECESSARILY pay Crunchyroll in order to watch it, which is not true. Also, you forgot that there are people that watch both pirated and Crunchyroll. If i watch something pirated, CR gains nothing. If i don't watch something, CR also gains nothing If there are people who wouldn't pay CR anyway, what is the problem? |
thewiru said: ZunuSan said: Hmm, what about the money they must perceive for the anime they made? Yeah, I know they receive the same money if you watch anime legally or illegally, but that's only because Crunchyroll and the sponsors pay it. So who is losing something are the legal streaming pages and the sponsors. Well, that's a good point, but i must remind you anime piracy existed long before Crunchyroll. Not to mention, you consider that if someone didn't have piracy, they would NECESSARILY pay Crunchyroll in order to watch it, which is not true. Also, you forgot that there are people that watch both pirated and Crunchyroll. If i watch something pirated, CR gains nothing. If i don't watch something, CR also gains nothing If there are people who wouldn't pay CR anyway, what is the problem? I didn't say anything about that. Crunchyroll is just an example of a legal way to watch anime. Another example can be TV itself and it applies as well. And there were legal ways to watch anime always. If it was hard or not, it's another subject. |
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thewiru said: Difference between taking inspiration and stealing a product incase you are confusing the two"so you telling me Burger King stole the recipe from McDonalds too?" That also works for "Random guy that made a chair" and "Another random guy that also made a chair" thewiru said: Pretty sure your agenda is I don't want to be labeled a thief so I'm trying to dismiss the meaning of a word right now honestly so what is this turning into? If my agenda is the truth, then yes, i have an agenda. A Is so. Is not. Is so. Is not kind of thing like I have to do with my little brothers that are 9 and 5 years old? thewiru said: That pressupposed that if you take it, the original owner won't have it anymore, which isn't the case for anime. thewiru said: Again you're ignoring the other definitions, meanings and interpretations of stealing or theft In order for it to be stealing, one must lose something. thewiru said: in this instance it is Also, copying isn't stealing. |
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| Support under paid animators instead. They need it! |
| HACKs! 🤢🤮 |
| "Difference between taking inspiration and stealing a product incase you are confusing the two" As i said, there isn't any stealing involved, and the line between "taking inspiration" and "plagiarising" isn't very well-drawn either. "Pretty sure your agenda is I don't want to be labeled a thief so I'm trying to dismiss the meaning of a word right now honestly" Well, if i'm not stealing anybody, nothing more fair than not be called a thief, don't you think? Now YOU'RE the one who's dismissing the meaning of this word. "Again you're ignoring the other definitions, meanings and interpretations of stealing or theft" Yep, and focusing on the real one. If someone thinks that the definition of "swimming" is "moonwalkin in the house of a friend" with nothing to back up that claim, why should i care? The concept of stealing comes from the law of private property. "in this instance it is" Nope, because stealing has an objective definition and what the government says won't change such definition. And yes, before you ask, i do believe that taxation is theft. |
thewiru said: If i watch something pirated, CR gains nothing. If i don't watch something, CR also gains nothing If there are people who wouldn't pay CR anyway, what is the problem? Hi, OP. CR gains nothing, but CR lose something. Resource. Here's an analogy : You sleep in a sustainable room. The different is, one must be paid, one isn't. They have same feature. BUT, the paid one is paying for your stay there, whether you enjoy it or not, they pay for water, gas electricity, etc. The free one isn't paying anything, to something that must be paid, the resource. You know what's the different, you choose the free room. Does it considered as stealing? YES, indirectly. You support illegal industries, and it's against the law. |
"I'm tired, Boss. Mostly I'm tired of people being ugly at each other." - John Coffey, Green Miles |
| I abandon this discussion. It is useless to argue with who wants to defend the indefensible (in no point I mentioned, by the way, that piracy is absolutely bad and that it must be eradicated. That at least until there is a legal and accessible way to watch each and every one of the created anime in all of history. That is almost impossible, but we must not lose hope, or should we?) |
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ZunuSan said: I abandon this discussion. It is useless to argue with who wants to defend the indefensible (in no point I mentioned, by the way, that piracy is absolutely bad and that it must be eradicated. That at least until there is a legal and accessible way to watch each and every one of the created anime in all of history. That is almost impossible, but we must not lose hope, or should we?) Bless me, comrade. Your fall will be remembered. |
"I'm tired, Boss. Mostly I'm tired of people being ugly at each other." - John Coffey, Green Miles |
suzuya_mitsuko said: ZunuSan said: I abandon this discussion. It is useless to argue with who wants to defend the indefensible (in no point I mentioned, by the way, that piracy is absolutely bad and that it must be eradicated. That at least until there is a legal and accessible way to watch each and every one of the created anime in all of history. That is almost impossible, but we must not lose hope, or should we?) Bless me, comrade. Your fall will be remembered. Blessed are you in the name of the invisible pink unicorn. |
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Apoc_Revolution said: Don't bother, none of your arguments will convince them. Even when dictionaries state that "theft" is to take away the property of an owner, while "piracy" is unauthorised use or reproduction of someone's property. By definition, they cannot be the same since piracy doesn't deprive the owner of their property. These fools have already made up their minds and will butcher the actual definitions of these words so that they will fit their narrative. Ignore them. Pretty much this^ The whole thing about Piracy is that no matter how hard you try to fight it, it will always be there as long as the legal methods are not convenient enough. Right now there are like almost no old shows on streaming services (we have bebop on Netflix but what else?), We have to pay for multiple subs (Netflix, Amazon, Funi and CR) if we want to watch stuff Legally and paying like over 40 Dollars/Euros is a dam lot for many ppl. and many other issues. So the best way to deal with it is to just make your Legal services better and more convenient. |
suzuya_mitsuko said: thewiru said: If i watch something pirated, CR gains nothing. If i don't watch something, CR also gains nothing If there are people who wouldn't pay CR anyway, what is the problem? Hi, OP. CR gains nothing, but CR lose something. Resource. Here's an analogy : You sleep in a sustainable room. The different is, one must be paid, one isn't. They have same feature. BUT, the paid one is paying for your stay there, whether you enjoy it or not, they pay for water, gas electricity, etc. The free one isn't paying anything, to something that must be paid, the resource. You know what's the different, you choose the free room. Does it considered as stealing? YES, indirectly. You support illegal industries, and it's against the law. It is a bit more complicated than that. By staying in one of the rooms i'm actually consuming water, gas electricity and etc, but by watching anime, i'm not consuming it. Instead of using this argument, you should use the argument that by not paying Crunchyroll, it won't be able to profit as much, thus, not being able to bring more anime and improve their services. Still, this thread was never about if piracy is ok or not, but it was about that piracy is not stealing. ZunuSan said: I abandon this discussion. It is useless to argue with who wants to defend the indefensible (in no point I mentioned, by the way, that piracy is absolutely bad and that it must be eradicated. That at least until there is a legal and accessible way to watch each and every one of the created anime in all of history. That is almost impossible, but we must not lose hope, or should we?) Despite the fact that i'm not talking about the morality of piracy, but about the objective fact that it isn't stealing. As i said, and i will repeat: In order to something to be a crime IT DOESN'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY BE THEFT. |
suzuya_mitsuko said: thewiru said: If i watch something pirated, CR gains nothing. If i don't watch something, CR also gains nothing If there are people who wouldn't pay CR anyway, what is the problem? Hi, OP. CR gains nothing, but CR lose something. Resource. Here's an analogy : You sleep in a sustainable room. The different is, one must be paid, one isn't. They have same feature. BUT, the paid one is paying for your stay there, whether you enjoy it or not, they pay for water, gas electricity, etc. The free one isn't paying anything, to something that must be paid, the resource. You know what's the different, you choose the free room. Does it considered as stealing? YES, indirectly. You support illegal industries, and it's against the law. It is a bit more complicated than that. By staying in one of the rooms i'm actually consuming water, gas electricity and etc, but by watching anime, i'm not consuming it. Instead of using this argument, you should use the argument that by not paying Crunchyroll, it won't be able to profit as much, thus, not being able to bring more anime and improve their services. Still, this thread was never about if piracy is ok or not, but it was about that piracy is not stealing. ZunuSan said: I abandon this discussion. It is useless to argue with who wants to defend the indefensible (in no point I mentioned, by the way, that piracy is absolutely bad and that it must be eradicated. That at least until there is a legal and accessible way to watch each and every one of the created anime in all of history. That is almost impossible, but we must not lose hope, or should we?) Despite the fact that i'm not talking about the morality of piracy, but about the objective fact that it isn't stealing. As i said, and i will repeat: In order to something to be a crime IT DOESN'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY BE THEFT. |
thewiru said: suzuya_mitsuko said: Hi, OP. CR gains nothing, but CR lose something. Resource. Here's an analogy : You sleep in a sustainable room. The different is, one must be paid, one isn't. They have same feature. BUT, the paid one is paying for your stay there, whether you enjoy it or not, they pay for water, gas electricity, etc. The free one isn't paying anything, to something that must be paid, the resource. You know what's the different, you choose the free room. Does it considered as stealing? YES, indirectly. You support illegal industries, and it's against the law. It is a bit more complicated than that. By staying in one of the rooms i'm actually consuming water, gas electricity and etc, but by watching anime, i'm not consuming it. Instead of using this argument, you should use the argument that by not paying Crunchyroll, it won't be able to profit as much, thus, not being able to bring more anime and improve their services. Still, this thread was never about if piracy is ok or not, but it was about that piracy is not stealing. ZunuSan said: I abandon this discussion. It is useless to argue with who wants to defend the indefensible (in no point I mentioned, by the way, that piracy is absolutely bad and that it must be eradicated. That at least until there is a legal and accessible way to watch each and every one of the created anime in all of history. That is almost impossible, but we must not lose hope, or should we?) Despite the fact that i'm not talking about the morality of piracy, but about the objective fact that it isn't stealing. As i said, and i will repeat: In order to something to be a crime IT DOESN'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY BE THEFT. I'm sorry, I read this and I have to come back. To consume anime is to watch it. You say that if you consume something this disappears. Not quite true. The energy is transformed and the water you drink returns to nature. The apples that you eat also return to nature in another form, but most, if not all, are used for other things, including the formation of new apples. An analogy rather abstract, but applicable. Now, I'm leaving, gentlemen. |
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| Pirating anime is, in essence, stealing it. I'd like to support my favorite creators but I'm not gonna get a subscription for a platform that offers an inferior service to torrenting (on the quality front) or illegal streaming (on the availability front, though I always make sure to block their ads so all they get from me is traffic, which they'll have in spades regardless). Blu-rays are inconvenient but they entice me from the collecting standpoint. That said, I'm uninterested if the subtitle quality is inferior to fansubs (I care a lot about typesetting, in particular), so that is really only an option for shows where I care more about the dub. Even then, anime blu-rays are much more expensive than they should be so I only ever end up getting physical copies for western stuff like Doctor Who and Disney animated movies. As a counterpoint, I buy manga whenever I can because it's usually available for a reasonable price at my local stores and the quality is significantly better than on a scanlation site. tl;dr - If a significant portion of my money is going to middlemen rather than creators, I require a quality product. If almost all my money will go to creators, I don't require a product beyond their creation. |
thewiru said: suzuya_mitsuko said: Hi, OP. CR gains nothing, but CR lose something. Resource. Here's an analogy : You sleep in a sustainable room. The different is, one must be paid, one isn't. They have same feature. BUT, the paid one is paying for your stay there, whether you enjoy it or not, they pay for water, gas electricity, etc. The free one isn't paying anything, to something that must be paid, the resource. You know what's the different, you choose the free room. Does it considered as stealing? YES, indirectly. You support illegal industries, and it's against the law. It is a bit more complicated than that. By staying in one of the rooms i'm actually consuming water, gas electricity and etc, but by watching anime, i'm not consuming it. Instead of using this argument, you should use the argument that by not paying Crunchyroll, it won't be able to profit as much, thus, not being able to bring more anime and improve their services. Still, this thread was never about if piracy is ok or not, but it was about that piracy is not stealing. ZunuSan said: I abandon this discussion. It is useless to argue with who wants to defend the indefensible (in no point I mentioned, by the way, that piracy is absolutely bad and that it must be eradicated. That at least until there is a legal and accessible way to watch each and every one of the created anime in all of history. That is almost impossible, but we must not lose hope, or should we?) Despite the fact that i'm not talking about the morality of piracy, but about the objective fact that it isn't stealing. As i said, and i will repeat: In order to something to be a crime IT DOESN'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY BE THEFT. Ah, I see. If you argue just about the definition. I won't argue anymore. I'm sorry, I thought you just want to justify piracy is a good thing because it's not stealing. But does it really matter to you to differentiate the definition? Does you gain something with this? Or you just want to make thing straight and inline with what it should be? Yes, Piracy != Stealing, but they are still crime. Bad thing. I can comprehend if you bothered by this because of law / you cornered by this and really need to justify this. But, if you take this as a big matter only because it has different meaning, I think this isn't the place for it, or you go too far for it. I know, maybe I take thing too lightly here, but you too can give us things more clearly, more lenient / less provocative and have little more tolerance with people here. Cheers. EDIT : One more, I still think "watching" can be considered "using." |
"I'm tired, Boss. Mostly I'm tired of people being ugly at each other." - John Coffey, Green Miles |
thewiru said: doesnt really matter if you've said it since its wrong. As i said, there isn't any stealing involved thewiru said: the fuck?Well, if i'm not stealing anybody, nothing more fair than not be called a thief, don't you think? Now YOU'RE the one who's dismissing the meaning of this word. thewiru said: You are focusing on one meaning not just the real one. You are dismissing the other aspects of the word"Again you're ignoring the other definitions, meanings and interpretations of stealing or theft" Yep, and focusing on the real one. thewiru said: its their private property though so your point is?The concept of stealing comes from the law of private property. thewiru said: Times change and as such words need to be updated to fit with the times so if you're trying to say the word used to mean this before something else existed so it must always mean that then you're going to have a hard time.in this instance it is" Nope, because stealing has an objective definition and what the government says won't change such definition. thewiru said: I wasn't going to ask since I don't care but ok And yes, before you ask, i do believe that taxation is theft. |
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| @Kuraokani "My oh my. You seem to be missing the entire point of the 'illegal streaming sites are wrong' argument. The point is, your stealing from the creators. You're copying and distributing something that you didn't create. You're stealing profits that should go to the studios and people that actually had something to do with the creation. " No you're not, and you cant steal "profits that still haven't been made". "You heard "stealing" and decided to take it literally. " If it is not literally, then it isn't stealing. "Either way it goes, illegal streaming sites are wrong and take profits from people who deserve them" I kinda disagree with this, but either way, it isn't stealing. "Pirating anime is, in essence, stealing it." Nope, it isn't: Stealing: noun 1. the act of a person who steals. 2. Usually, stealings. something that is stolen. adjective 3. given to or characterized by theft. Piracy: verb (used with object), pirated, pirating. to use or reproduce (a book, an invention, etc.) without authorization or legal right: (The other definitions talk about actual pirates) |
| "doesnt really matter if you've said it since its wrong." IF it was wrong, but it is right. "Times change and as such words need to be updated to fit with the times so if you're trying to say the word used to mean this before something else existed so it must always mean that then you're going to have a hard time." Yet, they must still have objective meanings. The concept of stealing, as i already said, domes from the law of private property: If one is using something, other one cant use the same thing at the same time. Therefore, in order to avoid conflict, such thing must be someone's and that someone must have a way to prove that such thing is his. If i have an apple, you can't have the same apple at the same time, but with anime, if i watch an anime online you can still watch the same anime at the same time. Words MUST have some objective meaning behind them, otherwise you went full Derrida. If something means everything, therefore, it ends up meaning nothing, that's why words need objective meanings. |
thewiru said: If i watch something pirated, CR gains nothing. If i don't watch something, CR also gains nothing If there are people who wouldn't pay CR anyway, what is the problem? There are also people who WOULD pay CR if that was the only way to watch an anime. CR & FUNImation (and other legitimate sites) buy the re-distribution rights, betting that they'll make a profit, or at least break even with their user subscriptions and/or disc/merch sales. If they lose money because "piracy isn't really stealing", they won't buy the rights to as many shows in the future, eventually not buying any at all. Your "not actually stealing anything" multiplied by thousands or millions of people, does take away from someone's profits, which is considered theft. |
 You're never too old to watch anime. If I ever stop watching anime, check my pulse I'm likely dead. I wake up with coffee & anime, I go to sleep with coffee & anime. Sorry if my sarcasm is bad, it's not my first language. |
Older_than_dirt said: There are also people who WOULD pay CR if that was the only way to watch an anime. CR & FUNImation (and other legitimate sites) buy the re-distribution rights, betting that they'll make a profit, or at least break even with their user subscriptions and/or disc/merch sales. If they lose money because "piracy isn't really stealing", they won't buy the rights to as many shows in the future, eventually not buying any at all. Your "not actually stealing anything" multiplied by thousands or millions of people, does take away from someone's profits, which is considered theft. And there are lots of people that wouldn't know about anime if CR was the only way to watch anime. "Your "not actually stealing anything" multiplied by thousands or millions of people, does take away from someone's profits, which is considered theft." That's... not how it works. @Kuraokani You're not the only one in this thread, relax, man. "When people say "stealing" in reference to illegal streaming, they mean that you're taking profits that should've gone to the creators. Sure, you're not stealing the profits directly from them, but you are making profits off of something that's not yours. " Which is not stealing, that MAY be a crime, but if it is, it is not stealing. Also, i'm making profit out of ads, the fact that whether i'm using pirated anime or stock photos of puppies while doing so is irrelevant. "How do you disagree with this? " Because they don't "take profit", the profit they get is of ads, not depending in any shape or form in the profit the original creators made. |
thewiru said: What I've said still works with the objective meaning of the word though. But you keep dismissing it Yet, they must still have objective meanings. thewiru said: Ah so true man. Me and my brothers can't use the shower at the same time. We can't use the TV remote at the same time. We can't eat from the same ice cream bowl.If one is using something, other one can't use the same thing at the same time thewiru said: We already know it belongs to someone else and that the one giving the free service stole it. So your point is?Therefore, in order to avoid conflict, such thing must be someone's and that someone must have a way to prove that such thing is his. thewiru said: So if me and my friend stole an apple and then cut it in half so we both can eat it at the same time its not stealing?If i have an apple, you can't have the same apple at the same time, but with anime, if i watch an anime online you can still watch the same anime at the same time. |
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Aquamirror said: Don't start another flamewar. We all know Mother's Basement is a neckbeard shill. Don't take youtards seriously. I gave this guy a go watching his Naruto video on why it's good and the guy kept shoving that stupid game he was shilling into any topic he could. I thought he'd only talk about it at the end or something. I don't even know why I was looking up anime YouTubers, they are all terrible. |
| Technically it is theft, albeit theft of services rather than theft of goods. Though I try to use terms like "misappropriation" or "unauthorized consumption," since using words like "stealing" or "theft" seems to act as a Bat-Signal for certain posters who rarely ever surface except to say "Piracy isn't theft." Though really, if the viewerbase expects the anime industry to upend their entire business models and ways of thinking, from "selling plastic discs" to "selling entertainment experiences" or some such, shouldn't the viewerbase's concept of "stealing" evolve as well? It seems awfully self-serviing to say, "you have to change everything, but I get to keep my Iron Age definition of stealing that allows me to justify getting free entertainment." |
ZalisAug 26, 2017 8:28 PM
| That's bullshit. What they're stealing is the intellectual property of various creators. Those ideas are formed by people working together under a contract. A contract with a studio, which then has contracts with several other companies. Those IPs are released since they are expected to turn on a profit. What pirates take are those. And that's the definition of stealing. |
| "So if me and my friend stole an apple and then cut it in half so we both can eat it at the same time its not stealing?" That's actually how taxation works, and yes, it is still theft. "Ah so true man. Me and my brothers can't use the shower at the same time. We can't use the TV remote at the same time. We can't eat from the same ice cream bowl." Well, you, indeed, can't use the same space at the same time. Same goes for the TV remove if everyone wants to watch a different channel. And while you eat icecream, each eats different parts of the same icecream. @Kuraokani "Alsooooo, you said, or quoted (god knows who), "Pirating is, in essence, stealing it", to which I replied "You do realize what "in essence" means, right?", I'm still waiting on that reply..." From what i understand of "in essence", it isn't the same thing. If you already know that pirating and stealing are different things, then my job here is done. |
| Welcome to the modern age, where words don't mean anything anymore! Copying is stealing, words are violence, and hoverboards roll along the ground on wheels. Seriously, though, first and foremost, the YouTube guy in question is a paid CR stooge. He cannot be expected to speak candidly on this topic. (Do you see what I did there?) Second, I agree, his use of the word "stealing" is just plain wrong. Call it infringement, call it unethical, call it immoral, but do not call it stealing, because that's something it is not. He's only torpedoing whatever other valid points he may have by starting off with a statement that's so flat-out false. But another issue I had was that he sorely underestimates adblockers. Anti-adblocker blockers are a thing. I don't go to KA (albeit for different reasons), but I've been to other sites that think they're being clever by trying to get me to turn off my adblocker. A couple clicks with my element blocker, and I'm back to browsing not only ad-free, but nag-free as well. It's a constantly-escalating arms race, and it's naive to think KA or any other site has "won" at any point. I'm expected to believe that many major sites with ads are suffering, while KA is the only one that has found this one secret trick, and is rolling in dough. Something doesn't add up. And on a related note, I've heard people say that adblocking is "stealing," too. Go ahead and guess how seriously the rest of us take those claims. |
thewiru said: at least you understand that much thenand yes, it is still theft. thewiru said: depends on how large the space we are talking about.Well, you, indeed, can't use the same space at the same time. thewiru said: split screen is something that exists Same goes for the TV remote if everyone wants to watch a different channel. thewiru said: yeah but I said bowl not the ice cream itselfAnd while you eat ice-cream, each eats different parts of the same ice-cream. |
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