| i think pain is too complex for plants, not a botanist or anything though... theres those trees that need to be burned (pretty painful yeah) to sprout their seeds. |
イカロス --I K A R O S D E S U-- "Hai master" <3cruise   Becoming the bell of my heart dont click here, baka -->> https://soundcloud.com/franciscan-guitar |
jarring said: No, you would think that when one claims proof in a scientific setting one would provide an academic article of some sort - but ironically you provided one that not only doesn't cite a single academic article, but is also written by someone with no personal knowledge in the field. Basing conclusions on his own conjecture using the support of some "expert's" word as proof. It's along the same lines as when you hear the evening news say "Can chocolate be the cure to cancer? Found out more at 11" - They have just misinterpreted some study and will say some shit like "according to a group of scientists working at X university, it can!"you've got to be joking. jarring said: I didn't say anything about the New Yorker - Literally not a word. I questioned why you see the author of the article in question as an authority on the field, and pointed out an instance (admittedly an instance in one of the only paragraphs I read) where he misinterprets the interviewees point, and then further fucks up by extrapolating this misconception to justify why plants must be able to feel pain. you seriously talking shit on the new yorker? jarring said: Not what it is? You are presenting it as proof that plants feel pain - hence I am giving reasons why it is not proof that plants feel pain.it's obvious you didn't read it, because that's not what it is. jarring said: Really? Will that help you prove any type of point whatsoever? Likely not . . . Also, and this is admittedly a tit-for-tat comment, but it really does seem like you start talking shit within 1 or 2 posts - I would consider that relatively fast.i normally don't go straight to talking shit this fast, but i have to now jarring said: What does my preference in anime do to help prove that plants feel pain? Don't get me wrong, I'm honored that my personal preference in anime is significant enough to influence the world we live in . . . I'm just genuinely curious how that works. On a side note - One of my favorite anime is a movie for little children, and another is a sports series targeting a similarly young demographic (although all 4 were relatively popular which will be relevant in the next little bit)it all makes sense now that i've seen your favorite anime. jarring said: Not sure this statement could be true - I mean think about it, Spirited Away is a hipster series? Seriously? One of the most successful animated movies from Japan is "hipster" - I would argue it would be mainstream but - Wait a second, we got off-topic here, how does any of this relate to the claim that plants feel pain? yet another noob trying to pass off like a hipster of anime while simultaneously trying to appear smart but fails. jarring said: Successful at ...? Also, I would like to mention now, I didn't take you for a fool initially . . . you might have been successful plenty of times before me. but your first mistake was taking me for a fool. jarring said: Well I mean . . . That kind of didn't change, right? sorry bro, but you got a ways to go before i could start respecting your intelligence. though i know you don't care what i think about you at this point. jarring said: If this isn't projection, I have no idea what is. Let's go through the steps shall we:considering how cro-magnon people like you can be when confronting a view not their own. "No study proves plants feel pain" --> "They do! Read this article!" --> *Looks at article for a second* "Doesn't provide sources" --> "I don't usually do this, but I'm gonna talk shit!!1!" I mean . . . Where was the whole confronting a view not your own? You just talked shit when the view "pieces that don't cite any studies are not proof" was presented to you. (Although, the only reason why academic journals exist in the first place is to provide proof of findings) jarring said: A "simple physical reaction" requiring a system plants do not possess. pain really isn't that complex. in fact i find it quite simple as a physical reaction meant to serve as your body's way of warning you what is dangerous. If you want to know more about pain, read this (and yes, it cites its sources) --> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964977/ It'll hopefully describe to some extent why simply stating "plants feel pain" without explaining how is ridiculous. |
Pirating_NinjaApr 22, 2017 2:59 PM
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jarring said: Ikaros_42oh said: i think pain is too complex for plants, not a botanist or anything though... theres those trees that need to be burned (pretty painful yeah) to sprout their seeds. pain really isn't that complex. in fact i find it quite simple as a physical reaction meant to serve as your body's way of warning you what is dangerous. it is closely related to fear. and it's why FEAR and PAIN to the extremes is what drives people insane. do plants go insane then when cut repeatedly? like a plant either recovers or dies, it'd be really hard to define 'insane'...it wants to survive because thats what its programmed to do, not out of fear |
イカロス --I K A R O S D E S U-- "Hai master" <3cruise Becoming the bell of my heart dont click here, baka -->> https://soundcloud.com/franciscan-guitar |
| I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't feel bad about plants or flowers being burned, I'm sorry, but that's just how I think. You can't call a vegetarian a killer, but you can call us the ones who eat meat killers, because it's true. |
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jarring said: i don't have time to be responding to bullshit liek this in the future. do it again and i won't be responding to you again even after i get a full nights rest. :( bro just reply, come on accept plants are little self replicating natural 'energy factories' that broke off from our conscious lineage a looooooooooooongggggggggggggggggggg time ago |
イカロス --I K A R O S D E S U-- "Hai master" <3cruise Becoming the bell of my heart dont click here, baka -->> https://soundcloud.com/franciscan-guitar |
jarring said: no, because i don't find it true at all. there have been many occasions i have looked up to trees and felt their presence as truly majestic and ominous beings beyond the understanding of humans. there are many MANY things about plants that we do not understand. in fact in the article i linked they explained how plant memory could very well help us understand how memory works in the human brain. not to mention, the communication of plants. where plants have the vocabulary of thousands of different chemicals whereas the average student has 700 words. communication doesnt mean they can feel pain though. i agree we may never understand the purpose of a tree and it does give it mystery to it; doesnt put it on the same level as something with a complex fear/pain capable nerve system. instinct is what they have, cant find anything that plants have instinctual fears or not... i *think* no, humans definitely do. believe it or not one of them is plants lmaoooo https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010027713001807 |
イカロス --I K A R O S D E S U-- "Hai master" <3cruise Becoming the bell of my heart dont click here, baka -->> https://soundcloud.com/franciscan-guitar |
jarring said: in the article i linked, they actual tackle that plants have much more than simply instinct. they can LEARN. it's true yes they can learn which is essentially association, perhaps some could experience basic pain and optimize to not experience it, still far off from fear which would require of learning the 'meaning' of death and all that it involves. just plain not smart enough in any measurable way "Plants have demonstrated that a brain and a nervous system are just one way [to create associations]." http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-06/plants-can-use-memory-to-learn-uwa-study-suggests/8098142 (the words and chemicals thing is interesting too as it would be more about the meaning behind the words than just raw variety... why cant we decipher this language anyway?) “Yes, plants have both short- and long-term electrical signalling, and they use some neurotransmitter-like chemicals as chemical signals,” Lincoln Taiz, an emeritus professor of plant physiology at U.C. Santa Cruz and one of the signers of the Alpi letter, told me. “But the mechanisms are quite different from those of true nervous systems.” Taiz says that the writings of the plant neurobiologists suffer from “over-interpretation of data, teleology, anthropomorphizing, philosophizing, and wild speculations.” He is confident that eventually the plant behaviors we can’t yet account for will be explained by the action of chemical or electrical pathways, without recourse to “animism.” Dont animate the plants! the weeb species not withstanding ;) |
Ikaros_42ohApr 22, 2017 3:55 PM
イカロス --I K A R O S D E S U-- "Hai master" <3cruise Becoming the bell of my heart dont click here, baka -->> https://soundcloud.com/franciscan-guitar |
 Vegetable rights activism among meat eaters. |
Lord_Sithis said: We can't just judge things that way, they possibily don't but who knows.swirlydragon said: Plants don't have a nervous system to feel pain.Wtf? Seriously? That guy EXPLOITED HIS GRANDFATHER'S DEATH AND CALLED HIM A RETARD. AND YOU SUBSCRIBED TO THAT PSYCHO? You might as well subscribe to Sorsha @Lord_Sithis That's a false equivalence. They did not say that plants release oxygen when they feel pain. It's another gas and they only release that gas when they are attacked. It has been done research that plants could be able to "think", by that they have their own nature and existinct, their own system, like any other form of life, so they could possibily be able to feel pain, not the way we do, but still, feel pain. Near logic goes to mammals and non-mammals. Most mammals feel pain almost the same way we do, but like, what if other groups of animals feel as well? Like when you kill an ant, who knows if it will be able to suffer in pain? |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
swirlydragon said: Believe whatever you want. But apart from his threats and his grandfather's case. He is also Islamophobic and he also doesn't understand the difference between Sikhisim and Islam. I MEAN THE GUY DOESN'T EVEN KNOW THAT SIKHISM (which is rather close to Hinduism) and Islam are two different religion. LOOK AT THIS FUCKIN VIDEO! DO YOU KNOW WHICH RELIGION IS IN THE THUMBNAIL? IT IS SIKHISM! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8QtCJAIlY4 Therefore, all his claims and proofs are nothing but delusional stuff His anti-Islam videos are trash, but he brings up many well-researched, valid points in some of his other videos. Therefore, your conclusion is nonsensical. As for the plants, believe whatever you want, m8 I'm just asking for you to support your claim. But scientists have already proven that plants do feel pain If you want to upgrade from talking out of your ass, answer this: Natasha said: Can anyone who agrees with OP explain how plants can experience pain? "I think so" or "this sensational article/video said so" won't cut it. Use plant anatomy and physiology to support your position. It should be simple if, as OP claimed, "scientists have already confirmed that plants feel pain". I’ll accept citations from peer-reviewed articles. |
MischievousGhostApr 23, 2017 8:28 AM
But, I like being a bad ass amoral killer man! You just don't know man, you just don't know. Like, I walk into a field or something and all the animals are like, "Oh shit son! watch out!" Then like, some Momma animal is like, "No baby don't look at him, he might kill and eat you!". So I start mad flexing! Then basically, only the starving crack addicts of the animal kingdom with nothing to lose would even consider attacking or eating me. Except for our domestic animals, them mofos is cray-cray as we be. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/cats-kill-billions-animals-annually-study-finds/story?id=18357853 Way to make us proud kitties! You didn't even need to eat that! Then we can get dogs to attack other people on our behalf too! |
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NudeBear said: Natasha said: His anti-Islam videos are trash, but he brings up many well-researched, valid points in some of his other videos. Therefore, your conclusion is nonsensical. I'm just asking for you to support your claim. If you want to upgrade from talking out of your ass, answer this: The thing with crackpots from all fields, is that no matter how hard you try to dissect their arguments and properly explain to them why they're wrong they'll continue to spout their idiotic bullshit; because they're more concerned with being "right" than understanding the actual topic. There have been at least a dozen posters in the past 6 pages that have explained to Swirly why he's wrong, he's still here. Give up. Woahh! I didn't even recognize you. You changed your avatar. @Natasha Anyway as for plants, why don't you show me an article which suggests that they do not feel pain? |
swirlydragonApr 23, 2017 10:48 AM
| Vegans aren't even human beings. They are lizard birds from Neptune. Yes. |
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| They'll lose their vegan superpowers if they understood that. |
SomeEdgeLord said: I WILL report you from this forum if this continues. In real life, I am one of the coldest, unsympathetic, people you'll ever know, who's grown up in an even colder household, you really don't want me to break my persona, I know how to make people feel bad. YearnsforAttention said: hm who has 1656 friends on MAL that's right me bye bye YearnsforAttention said: I don't want your approval how many damn times do I need to say it I enjoy irritating you I am gonna do things MY way |
| (I'm a vegan btw, but I would never shame someone for their diet, so try not to shame me for mine. The argument that you're using could be applied to animals too. Ex: "Animals feel pain, so we shouldn't eat them!" Ya see what I mean? No hate whatsoever, just saying. :) In our society, morals are very backwards. Humans tend to favor and thus spare organisms that can express emotion and intelligence, ex other humans and pets. However, for some reason, these rules don't apply to animals typically eaten for meat, which interferes with my argument somewhat, but bare with me. From a human's perspective WITHOUT the knowledge that scientists now have about plants, plants don't seem sentient, as they SEEM to lack intellect and emotion. As a result, humans don't feel remorse in eating these creatures. This logic can be bent, as some people experience pleasure when they inflict pain upon other humans and animals. This logic isn't applied to most animals, but even they hunt other animals to survive. Using this logic, I suppose that eating meat could be justified (even if I don't agree with it)... I'm a vegan mostly because the gas emissions that many animals on meat/ factory farms create impact global warming. (You can research it if you want, I'm not lying :) Thus, the mass production of these animals is detrimental to the environment. This video is very informative/ applies to this topic. I HIGHLY recommend that you watch it. This topic is a tad hypocritical, but it's okay. Have a great day! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3-BX-jN_Ac |
koala_tea_punsApr 24, 2017 12:40 PM
| If you like water you already like 75% of me |
| Western vegans sure have some creative reasons to not eat meat. The only vegans I know are the ones who stick to plants simply because they dislike the taste of meat (there are people like that, apparently). |
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