GenesisAria said: tldr crunchyroll is fast food garbage@GangsterCat Crunchyroll is not the only one with shitty-ass subs. But yes, they are lowering the quality bar by a longshot, with typos, stupid transliterations of idioms, and at times translating lines to say something completely different to what they actually said. -They lack karaoke (granted not everyone cares about this, but at least having op/ed/insert song lyrics is kind of imporrtant) -They never use good typesetting -Often completely change what characters say to fit someone's whim, as they're so nonsensically unrelated to the japanese dialogue that it can't be justified as "westernization". -They don't use good effect to fit the mood for immersion; such as if someone stutters, having the subs type out each stutter syllable as it's said, or for an example from flip flappers: Advanced SubStation Alpha subtitles were invented for a reason. The incompetence of the professional translators is disgusting. There are countless crunchy/funi subs compared to fansub screenshot comparisons that show up with airing anime that show how notoriously bad they are. The problem with Crunchyroll is that regardless of whether you can choose not to watch them from there, the mass majority who doesn't know any better is having damaged content delivered to them. They may miss out on valuable plot/character development because of it, and never be the wiser. If you're watching an anime, you're watching something from another culture. By negating japanese culture references, things like honourifics, particular speech patterns, and various idioms, you're denying the creators of their creation, and modifying it as you see fit. That's not just with anime, you should never butcher the source culture of any media ever. Besides the fact that it's rude, it's also cutting out part of the story. Anyone who bitches about things like honourifics, doesn't get the reason why their used and/or is a weeaboo-hater that ignorantly equates anything like that automatically to weeaboo. Untranslatable words are untranslatable. It's easier to just encourage the watcher/reader to learn them. @Ezekiel @Zephys @Ryo_Misaki and others If you think fan-subs are bad, then perhaps you're looking at the wrong sub groups. Some sub groups are shit (some are even troll, though often times they're freaking hilarious), and some are bar-none excellent (same goes for pro subs though, for example, Hibike Euphonium subs are good, but the problem is it is different from anime to anime, where sub groups have their own general consistency/style). If you're even vaguely familiar with japanese syntax or phases and idioms, it's very easy to spot when there's an extremely obtuse translation in the script (professional subs have a terrible habit of doing so). The most flattering and comprehensive subs are ones that can stay as true to the japanese dialogue as possible, without breaking English comprehension. Using proper sentence structure for subs is stupid, because nobody speaks with proper grammar. Remember, even the way someone says something, or the word order, speaks to their personality and is an aspect of character development. A lot of people argue about which subs are good and which aren't but i feel a lot of them are just arguing their opinion with limited familiarity of japanese language and social behaviour. Just because subbers are paid, doesn't mean they're going to try harder to do a good job. Fan subbers often do an outstanding job because they're passionate and want to go the extra mile for their own reasons, not for material gain. ...Fact of the workplace: you get paid regardless to whether you do an upstanding job, or merely a sufficient job that doesn't get you fired. Just by the existence of typos, it's clear they aren't hiring proofreaders. Ps: Native speaking doesn't necessarily mean you can translate better. Often times foreigners understand the language better, because natives take it for granted. (Japanese is also far easier to learn than English) Edit: sorry about the wall of text, i just get a lot of after-thoughts. |
Cross  AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
Ryo_Misaki said: I didn't say it was easy to master, just easy to comprehend on a general level. People who have troubles with it are those trying to project romantic language onto it: they think too much in word definitions, instead of broad concepts and connotations like asian languages work... That's what you get for trying to learn japanese through academics (you pick up on that stuff quickly if you actually listen). Anime is usually pretty basic japanese, like most manga, made for light watching/light reading.Edit: @GenesisAria I have never seen a person who says Japanese is easy who is actually good at the language. From what I've seen they are the very ones who keep making tons of mistakes. If you say its easy tell me how much you are proficient in it. It's hard to prove myself with this one, because i'm pretty damn proficient at listening comprehension, even with my very limited vocabulary, but i can't really read or write it very well. Often times mistakes people make are just awkward/weird, rather than incomprehensible. I bet you money that japanese have a much easier time understanding gaijin broken japanese than touhoku-ben. If i had the time and motivation, i'd gladly sharpen up my japanese and join the translation scene (because i'd be good at it), but unfortunately i have more important things to work on. |
GenesisAriaDec 11, 2016 3:31 AM
❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power.  “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
| @DateYutaka A lot of translators for many different languages have issues balancing accuracy with comprehensibility. Often times they're so obsessed with re-writing it in their own words, that the original context is lost, and substituted with one that the translator invented. You have to read and comprehend the connotations and what is implied by certain kinds of statements, and work with that. Not translate word for word, not translate literally, and not translate by re-writing with things that the translator thinks are similar to the connotation but aren't. GangsterCat said: I remember when, back in the day, there were some prime fast subbers. For example Mazui subs, when Angel Beats was airing, they had it subbed in less than 10 hours of when it aired on tv, and their quality was always good. Fast doesn't justify being bad. Most subbers are way slow these days; everyone got super lazy when HorribleSubs just set up ripping bots.tldr crunchyroll is fast food garbage Ryo_Misaki said: http://horriblesubs.info/about-us/@GenesisAria @DateYutaka I just went to check several CR subs now and immediately found out they the worst ones i have ever seen. Sorry for saying stupid things. Apparently part of what i thought as fan subs actually belongs to CR. "7. We do not translate our own shows because we rip from Crunchyroll, FUNimation, Hulu, The Anime Network, Niconico, and Daisuki." They're not JUST crunchyroll, but the shat quality ones usually are (funi at least doesn't typo or try to be hip). |
GenesisAriaDec 11, 2016 4:05 AM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
GenesisAria said: Ryo_Misaki said: I didn't say it was easy to master, just easy to comprehend on a general level. People who have troubles with it are those trying to project romantic language onto it: they think too much in word definitions, instead of broad concepts and connotations like asian languages work... That's what you get for trying to learn japanese through academics. Anime is usually pretty basic japanese, like most manga, made for light watching/light reading.Edit: @GenesisAria I have never seen a person who says Japanese is easy who is actually good at the language. From what I've seen they are the very ones who keep making tons of mistakes. If you say its easy tell me how much you are proficient in it. It's hard to prove myself with this one, because i'm pretty damn proficient at listening comprehension, even with my very limited vocabulary, but i can't really read or write it very well. Often times mistakes people make are just awkward/weird, rather than incomprehensible. I bet you money that japanese have a much easier time understanding gaijin broken japanese than touhoku-ben. What you say rings true. Word by word translation obviously doesn't work on languages that are radically different from each other, but people who do that are a bit rare. Most of mistakes i see are due to not recognizing very informal words, difficult words which occur less frequently or ill-pronounced words which somehow can be understood by native speakers. Translators try to make sense of what they hear, only to wind up making up totally nonsense or what's not said at all. This kinda gets on my nerve if you ask me. Of course it is easier to understand some gaijin because they try to communicate through using normal Japanese words that most people can understand. But touhoku-ben has a lot of different vocabulary from standard Japanese, hence the dialect is incomprehensible to people from other regions. |
| pokemon sun and moon have like 4 different fansubbers, the difference is so noticeable. the most crunchyroll-like one is the shittiest one |
Cross AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
Ryo_Misaki said: You can say not every official translator is a native Japanese speaker. But it's not like learners are unable to understand the language perfectly, so long as they are skilled enough as a translator. And even if they make mistakes there's someone else to proofread the translation, while in sub translations there's virtually no one to check the work. "Hardly any" I didn't say all. Also many fansubs and scanlations do have quality control. Though most "quality control" people are morons and instead of following the translation they localize it. Ryo_Misaki said: But still, when it comes to manga, official translations are way better than fan translations though. That's actually even funnier than claiming CR subs are good. rsc-pl said: GenesisAria said: I remember when, back in the day, there were some prime fast subbers. For example Mazui subs, when Angel Beats was airing, they had it subbed in less than 10 hours of when it aired on tv, and their quality was always good. Fast doesn't justify being bad. Most subbers are way slow these days; everyone got super lazy when HorribleSubs just set up ripping bots. Fansubs are almost dead now. The only one group which is doing decent (I'm talking about translation, not effects/ts) work all the time is Doki (but many people hate this group because they are using British English - tbh for me it is an advantage, because I prefer British English and dialogues as close as possible to original). In the past, many great fansub groups existed. Static-Subs & Eclipse, LunarAnime, AquaStar Anime, Menclave, or Mazui as you mentioned. And now? You pasted screen from GJM/DDY. Yes, they are doing great work with effects, but their translations are far far away from being acceptable. Usually it is just more liberal CR script. What about Shinsen-Subs or a.f.k.? |
Drunk_SamuraiDec 11, 2016 9:08 AM
Ezekiel said: Leaving out honorifics that don't exist in English and can be heard anyway isn't too liberal. It doesn't make a difference. i would generally agree with this, but I've watched so much anime that I can translate the honorifics myself. On the other hand, I've been watching some shows with a friend who has much less experience than me, and, in one case, leaving the honorifics untranslated did not provide the full context for him. That show is Flip Flappers where GenesisAria said: -They lack karaoke (granted not everyone cares about this, but at least having op/ed/insert song lyrics is kind of imporrtant) That has nothing to do with Crunchyroll, and everything to do with the Japanese music industry. Lyrics are handled entirely separately from the rest of the show and would require direct negotiations with the music rights holders. When Sam Pinansky pushed to get his translations accepted for the OP/ED lyrics in CR's release of Sakamichi no Apollon, they weren't accepted until the show was halfway over. Most other translators probably don't have his clout with the studios, nor does CR care to push much on this matter. There is a persistent tendency here at MAL to attribute things to the licensors like CR and Funimation that they have no responsibility for because the decisions being criticized are made in Japan. |
SeijiSenseiDec 11, 2016 10:01 AM
| i can't say i'm a fan of karaoke, especially if all they do is transcribe using romaji. even worse is when the opening itself already has the opening transcription in simple even-5-year-olds-can-read kana, and they put romaji on top of it. >.> thankfully CR doesn't do this, i think. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
| i watched dragon ball super daisuki translation for the first time because kissnaime was down and torrent is just slow they fucking gave me ENGLISH TEXT TRANSLATION BUT NO ROMAJI LYRICS WTF MAN *TRIGGERED* |
Cross AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
Ryo_Misaki said: This is one i'll never understand of other people. Japanese is one of the easiest to pronounce languages in the world. It has so few variations in syllabic sounds, and e worst difficulty you'll have is making sure you get your extended vowels right, and not mixing up u's or i's when slang'd to sound like e's. When you look at a lot of other languages in the world, like chinese or arabic, they can be a pronunciation nightmare.or ill-pronounced words which somehow can be understood by native speakers. rsc-pl said: UTW still exists. FFF still exists altholgh they tend to go too much towards the full proper english. Commie always sucked. There's lots of noname cropped up fansubbers that are pretty decent to where you don't really notice them. Davinci subs for Girlish number are pretty comfortable. GJM and DameDesuYo are mid-range, though i feel GJM is better. Same with Asenshi is mid too. I always found Vivid to be pretty good. Merchant is nice too. Chihiro is pretty awesome even still. Doki is decent.Fansubs are almost dead now. The only one group which is doing decent (I'm talking about translation, not effects/ts) work all the time is Doki (but many people hate this group because they are using British English - tbh for me it is an advantage, because I prefer British English and dialogues as close as possible to original). In the past, many great fansub groups existed. Static-Subs & Eclipse, LunarAnime, AquaStar Anime, Menclave, or Mazui as you mentioned. And now? You pasted screen from GJM/DDY. Yes, they are doing great work with effects, but their translations are far far away from being acceptable. Usually it is just more liberal CR script. A lot of fansubs just do BD releases now, because they don't wanna work their asses off for airing series expediency. @SeijiSensei That's partially my point. Fansubbers can translate songs all they bloody want. Licensed subs cannot. @DreamingBeats @GangsterCat Ideal karaoke shows the written japanese, and romaji with timed syllables, and english translation. Timing the syllables is a huge amount of work, so not doing that wart is acceptable. At the very least, both romaji and english. A lot of old DVD's for anime would romaji the OP lyrics for some episodes and english trans for others (often time it'd leapfrog them), but not show both together (limitation of vobsubs, i don't think they generally could place subtitles at the top). @KEIKAN I dunno about the original poster, but none of my complaints here are to remove things like crunchyroll. They are immensely beneficial to the anime industry by making it more accessible to the average westerner. The discussion here is about how CR needs to be less shit at their job. |
GenesisAriaDec 11, 2016 10:26 AM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
| to be far, I never really cared for fansubs unless there isn't any official sub release, that's when I'll turn to the fansubs. |
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| Well lately fansubs are worse then CR ones specialy at OVAs and specials some are really badly translated and also quite many fansubs are coming from CR they fix few error. Think there was already a topic at ANN regarding their subs and as i remember it was basicly written that CR has to do the subs quite fast specialy when they have more shows a day and they have no time to check for any mistakes so once the subs are done they ship it out. So yeah the process aint that easy and ofc they wont waste too much money on hiring lots of ppl to translate and recheck the stuff. And they only fix any mistakes when they are doing releases for the bd-dvd while for the streaming stuff they dont bother. |
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Drunk_Samurai said: Ryo_Misaki said: You can say not every official translator is a native Japanese speaker. But it's not like learners are unable to understand the language perfectly, so long as they are skilled enough as a translator. And even if they make mistakes there's someone else to proofread the translation, while in sub translations there's virtually no one to check the work. "Hardly any" I didn't say all. Also many fansubs and scanlations do have quality control. Though most "quality control" people are morons and instead of following the translation they localize it. I agree. Fan translation teams also claim to have proof readers to keep quality, yet even after their inspection petty mistakes remain untouched. That's why i said "virtually". As for official translation I thought there were at least someone to examine the work, bu after realizing how bad CR is, I'm getting unsure about that. Drunk_Samurai said: Ryo_Misaki said: But still, when it comes to manga, official translations are way better than fan translations though. That's actually even funnier than claiming CR subs are good. Lmao, you are the one who sound funnier here. Have you read any fan subbed manga haven't you? Or perhaps you aren't really well-versed in Japanese to pick up on any mistake, be it big or small, I suppose. I'm not saying official translations are the best, but at least they don't misinterpret informal language or difficult words. whereas fan translations really suck at them, no matter how they are good at avoiding localization stuff. You'll even hurt your eyes when you read fan translated light novels on fan sites like Bakatsuki. Translators there are literally baka. Translation they make oftentimes makes no sense at all. Be careful in case you truly understand Japanese and know the original scripts, those translators are ruining the products. |
Ryo_MisakiDec 11, 2016 7:23 PM
Ryo_Misaki said: Drunk_Samurai said: "Hardly any" I didn't say all. Also many fansubs and scanlations do have quality control. Though most "quality control" people are morons and instead of following the translation they localize it. I agree. Fan translation teams also claim to have proof readers to keep quality, yet even after their inspection petty mistakes remain untouched. That's why i said "virtually". As for official translation I thought there were at least someone to examine the work, bu after realizing how bad CR is, I'm getting unsure about that. Lmao, you are the one who sound funnier here. Have you read any fan subbed manga haven't you? Or perhaps you aren't really well-versed in Japanese to pick up on any mistake, be it big or small, I suppose. I'm not saying official translations are the best, but at least they don't misinterpret informal language or difficult words. whereas fan translations really suck at them, no matter how they are good at avoiding localization stuff. You'll even hurt your eyes when you read fan translated light novels on fan sites like Bakatsuki. Translators there are literally baka. Translation they make oftentimes makes no sense at all. Be careful in case you truly understand Japanese and know the original scripts, those translators are ruining the products. "ruining the product" Yet you support something like "What in Sam hell?". |
| Is this why Kissanimu is dead? sadfgasdfg |
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ItsXolo said: People who like fansubs have this really warped idea of what good subs are. Karaoke effects, flickering/flashing/moving subtitles (like the flip flappers example above), most forms of typesetting, and fancy fonts aren't things that make subtitles better, they make them worse. Subtitles should be subtle and unobtrusive. Fansubs, even "good" fansubs (and maybe especially them) reek of "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! LOOK HOW COOL THESE SUBTITLES ARE! STOP WATCHING THE ANIME AND LOOK AT ME, THE SUBTITLES! " Crunchyroll and any other official subs make a conscious choice not to do that shit because they're grown up and professional, and understand the purpose of subtitles. Yet they can't translate correctly? |
GenesisAria said: UTW still exists. Uh, no, they don't. UTW closed down in 2015 after finishing up Fate/UBW. I wish they were still around, their subs were great. |
| @DoubleMangekyo Ah i see, i guess i haven't been super paying attention. That doesn't mean that members aren't going to go elsewhere and do their own things. I have seen μtw subs, which i'm not quite sure if they have some UTW members or what... Fansubs are dying out a lot, and there was a season or 2 where there was almost zero fansubs, but they seem to be slowly returning now, because everyone's realizing that the "professional" subs are painfully unprofessional. Even if some are just taking an official script, and fixing it up, changing wordings (so it's not so blatantly different from what's actually said), and adding proper typesetting and karaoke etc to save work, that's fine too. Its still better than straight HorribleSubs. There are still groups like Hatsuyuki, Kaitou, BudLightSubs, Mezashite, Doremi, Chyuu, Doutei, FTW, Kite-Seekers, Mori, Oyatsu, ron, scribbles, Watashi, m.3.3.w, and so on... EveTaku is still doing BD releases. SubDESU is mostly busy with hentai subs. Don't take my word on all of them, i dunno who's still active, though a lot seem to be just taking it easy and only subbing a series here and there. A majority of them you won't see until batch releases, or their subs get muxed onto BD rips (bakabt has a lot of torrents like that, and very few official subs). They just don't have the tens of thousands of downloads they used to have, because HorribleSubs is first, and more people just pay for Crunchyroll. Edit: Google translate seems to have gotten a pretty good buff somewhat recently (auto-translated websites are almost well enough written that you might not even realize it's been translated by chrome), and youtube pre-scans and translate subtitles for videos, showing the subtitles in chunks instead of typing out the words as it detects them. Before long, translation jobs will be obsolete. Hobby translations will probably persist even after professional translation is made obsolete by AI's, for the hipsters who prefer a human touch. (dubs would remain for many years to come until vocaloid-like software can change someone's voice in one language to sound natural in another) |
GenesisAriaDec 13, 2016 6:17 PM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
| Something I forgot to point out earlier: it's not really CR that's killing the fansubbing scene, it's actually HorribleSubs. (A fact that Doki leader Holofx posted about on the stupid torrent site's forums a number of years ago.) If no one were ripping subs and videos from CR/Funi et al, then the only way to see those translations within a week of the airdate would've been to buy a subscription to those sites. If that were the case, there would've been enough of an audience for traditional "from-scratch" fansubs released 24-72 hours after airing to keep the scene viable, though I can imagine groups might've maintained subscriptions just to double-check their translations. And since HorribleSubs was a brainchild of well-known fansubbing group gg, we have ourselves a classic case of "The calls are coming from inside the house!" TheFluff said: IOW: CR didn't kill the fansubbing scene: it was auto-semi-erotic asphyxiation. DateYutaka said: So what you're saying is Japanese TV ads don't add to a studio's profits, because the cost of the timeslots is deducted from those profits. Which is exactly what I was saying about the removal of those ads from overseas streams being irrelevant to Japanese companies' bottom line. Any foreign viewer dedicated enough to import Japanese discs, manga/LN, and merchandise for a given series doesn't need the JP TV ads to do so, and the casual viewers can't afford any of that anyway.how Japanese tv works is this the ad men give the slot ot the show hey the stuid have ot pay back for the slot out of there profits why did you only foucs on that n my commnt and the accuarcy of traslation debate As for translation accuracy, you've consistently declined to provide comparisons and examples of CR/official subs' mistakes (that go beyond "localization decisions I disagree with") in all these threads, instead relying on "I'm Japanese, take my word for it." GenesisAria said: -They lack karaoke (granted not everyone cares about this, but at least having op/ed/insert song lyrics is kind of important) -They never use good typesetting -Often completely change what characters say to fit someone's whim, as they're so nonsensically unrelated to the japanese dialogue that it can't be justified as "westernization". -They don't use good effect to fit the mood for immersion; such as if someone stutters, having the subs type out each stutter syllable as it's said, or for an example from flip flappers: Advanced SubStation Alpha subtitles were invented for a reason. * Lack of OP/ED lyrics: as others have mentioned, it's more of a legal redtape issue with the bands and music companies. I wish things were otherwise, but viewers demanded legal-streaming simulcasts, and song translations were a tradeoff/casualty of the situation. * Not using good typesetting: streaming players can't handle complicated softsubbed effects. (And the viewerbase throws a fit whenever anything's hardcoded these days.) It's already impressive enough that CR's player allows as much color/positioning/font choice as it does. See the quote below. * Completely changing dialogue on a whim: As noted above, examples of this that aren't "localization decisions I disagree with" are often thin on the ground. But see also fansubbers like gg, Coalguys, Commie, FFF, etc., who love to embark on rewrites for the lulz and to add random Internet memes to subs. Not to mention the many fansubs over the years that've unintentionally changed dialogue because they misheard what was said, or were completely guesslating. * Subtitle effects: again, these generally aren't technically feasible. And really, is the Flip Flappers "distortion" effect truly necessary? Isn't it possible to tell that the voice is speaking in a weird/robotic tone from the audio? CR even did something "abnormal" with the line, albeit within the limits of their platform. *Advanced Substation Alpha subtitles were invented for a reason: Yes, and that reason was "to improve subtitling in illegally-downloaded media files played on recently-made high-end PCs." Unfortunately, the .ass format and its flagship program, Aegisub, were developed without any regard for compatibility with any DVD, Blu-Ray, or streaming subtitle formats in the commercial world: Justin_Sevakis said: Fansubbers have developed their own software since the earliest days, and the current gold standard, Aegisub, is THE most powerful, flexible subtitling software that exists. Unfortunately it was developed in a bubble, completely oblivious to all of the standards and use cases in the professional world. This is not something that the rest of the world will "catch up to" someday. These features aren't in mainstream subtitling software because nobody outside of the anime world cares about these features. It's a total case of "Galapagos Syndrome" -- a little self-contained corner of the internet that matured completely cut off from the rest of the world, only to find out later that it took a completely different evolutionary path. Fansubs will always be able to do things the professionals can't. It's the nice part about not having to care if your viewers can play your video or not. Drunk_Samurai said: Were you referring to the notorious trollsubbing group known as a.f.k.? What about Shinsen-Subs or a.f.k.? xull said: [CR] once translated Lolicon as Pedophile Sounds like a troll sub. Btw, the official subs for those lines? Screenshot 1: That means you have a Lolita complex, right, Dad? Screenshot 2: "Sometimes I have a Lolita complex." And don't forget the random Americanization! Official TL: Bring back patrons who flocked to the megamart that opened last year. |
ZalisDec 14, 2016 8:44 PM
Zalis said: Something I forgot to point out earlier: it's not really CR that's killing the fansubbing scene, it's actually HorribleSubs. (A fact that Doki leader Holofx posted about on the stupid torrent site's forums a number of years ago.) If no one were ripping subs and videos from CR/Funi et al, then the only way to see those translations within a week of the airdate would've been to buy a subscription to those sites. If that were the case, there would've been enough of an audience for traditional "from-scratch" fansubs released 24-72 hours after airing to keep the scene viable, though I can imagine groups might've maintained subscriptions just to double-check their translations. And since HorribleSubs was a brainchild of well-known fansubbing group gg, we have ourselves a classic case of "The calls are coming from inside the house!" TheFluff said: IOW: CR didn't kill the fansubbing scene: it was auto-semi-erotic asphyxiation. DateYutaka said: So what you're saying is Japanese TV ads don't add to a studio's profits, because the cost of the timeslots is deducted from those profits. Which is exactly what I was saying about the removal of those ads from overseas streams being irrelevant to Japanese companies' bottom line. Any foreign viewer dedicated enough to import Japanese discs, manga/LN, and merchandise for a given series doesn't need the JP TV ads to do so, and the casual viewers can't afford any of that anyway.how Japanese tv works is this the ad men give the slot ot the show hey the stuid have ot pay back for the slot out of there profits why did you only foucs on that n my commnt and the accuarcy of traslation debate As for translation accuracy, you've consistently declined to provide comparisons and examples of CR/official subs' mistakes (that go beyond "localization decisions I disagree with") in all these threads, instead relying on "I'm Japanese, take my word for it." GenesisAria said: -They lack karaoke (granted not everyone cares about this, but at least having op/ed/insert song lyrics is kind of important) -They never use good typesetting -Often completely change what characters say to fit someone's whim, as they're so nonsensically unrelated to the japanese dialogue that it can't be justified as "westernization". -They don't use good effect to fit the mood for immersion; such as if someone stutters, having the subs type out each stutter syllable as it's said, or for an example from flip flappers: Advanced SubStation Alpha subtitles were invented for a reason. * Lack of OP/ED lyrics: as others have mentioned, it's more of a legal redtape issue with the bands and music companies. I wish things were otherwise, but viewers demanded legal-streaming simulcasts, and song translations were a tradeoff/casualty of the situation. * Not using good typesetting: streaming players can't handle complicated softsubbed effects. (And the viewerbase throws a fit whenever anything's hardcoded these days.) It's already impressive enough that CR's player allows as much color/positioning/font choice as it does. See the quote below. * Completely changing dialogue on a whim: As noted above, examples of this that aren't "localization decisions I disagree with" are often thin on the ground. But see also fansubbers like gg, Coalguys, Commie, FFF, etc., who love to embark on rewrites for the lulz and to add random Internet memes to subs. Not to mention the many fansubs over the years that've unintentionally changed dialogue because they misheard what was said, or were completely guesslating. * Subtitle effects: again, these generally aren't technically feasible. And really, is the Flip Flappers "distortion" effect truly necessary? Isn't it possible to tell that the voice is speaking in a weird/robotic tone from the audio? CR even did something "abnormal" with the line, albeit within the limits of their platform. *Advanced Substation Alpha subtitles were invented for a reason: Yes, and that reason was "to improve subtitling in illegally-downloaded media files played on recently-made high-end PCs." Unfortunately, the .ass format and its flagship program, Aegisub, were developed without any regard for compatibility with any DVD, Blu-Ray, or streaming subtitle formats in the commercial world: Justin_Sevakis said: Fansubbers have developed their own software since the earliest days, and the current gold standard, Aegisub, is THE most powerful, flexible subtitling software that exists. Unfortunately it was developed in a bubble, completely oblivious to all of the standards and use cases in the professional world. This is not something that the rest of the world will "catch up to" someday. These features aren't in mainstream subtitling software because nobody outside of the anime world cares about these features. It's a total case of "Galapagos Syndrome" -- a little self-contained corner of the internet that matured completely cut off from the rest of the world, only to find out later that it took a completely different evolutionary path. Fansubs will always be able to do things the professionals can't. It's the nice part about not having to care if your viewers can play your video or not. Were you referring to the notorious trollsubbing group known as a.f.k.? Btw, the official subs for those lines? Screenshot 1: That means you have a Lolita complex, right, Dad? Screenshot 2: "Sometimes I have a Lolita complex." And don't forget the random Americanization! Official TL: Bring back patrons who flocked to the megamart that opened last year. exmaple alot of dubs ans pro subs add swaring in that i fidn that purelie my self Japanse dose in fact have them sort of words but there not there not im the jp scripts fact |
| "If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine" When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one For the Union makes us strong |
Zalis said: Not necessary, but were immersively inviting, as the subs dynamically flowed with the context - it's what you call a "nice touch". It was pretty obvious they were saying "gokigenyou" with a doomy multiplexed / noised voice filter, so typing with l33t sp34k was completely dumb (and outdated). The ones that i find most important are like when a character stutters, or says a word, and then abnormal pause before finishing their sentence - if it's revealed before they say it, then it obliterates and awkwardness or comedy in the delivery. Anyone who legitimately cares about experiencing entertainment will understand that adapting to the particular intention in delivery is necessary to be as true to the original work as possible. Decent dubbers are decent because they do this, replicating the emotions and deliveries as best they can without destroying dialogue or context in the process. It's hard to get sentences fit in the same amount of time without sounding bad. There's no excuse for subtitle translation to not do the same.* Subtitle effects: again, these generally aren't technically feasible. And really, is the Flip Flappers "distortion" effect truly necessary? Isn't it possible to tell that the voice is speaking in a weird/robotic tone from the audio? CR even did something "abnormal" with the line, albeit within the limits of their platform. *Advanced Substation Alpha subtitles were invented for a reason: Yes, and that reason was "to improve subtitling in illegally-downloaded media files played on recently-made high-end PCs." Unfortunately, the .ass format and its flagship program, Aegisub, were developed without any regard for compatibility with any DVD, Blu-Ray, or streaming subtitle formats in the commercial world: The substation alpha subtitles weren't invented by these people originally, they're just the ones that picked it up. Just like most of the encoding formats like Hi10p, and being early testers of HEVC anime encoders seek semi-professional consistency often (in stark contrast to mostly all other tv/movie pirate encoders, who suck ass at it, and find garbled dogshit worse than standard def tv to be good quality just because it says 1080p on it). Being a vector system it was highly versatile to do whatever subs wherever, without constrictions to pre-specified locations. You can have bottom, top, and inline subs just like old vob subs (and plain text srt subs couldn't do) making them practical. All of the effects are engine abuse; modding. Virtually every system can handle substation subs, it's just that a lot of them can't handle animated ones that have tweening (recalculating subs every render frame if not using the embedded xy version, which limits it to the frames of the video).Justin_Sevakis said: Fansubbers have developed their own software since the earliest days, and the current gold standard, Aegisub, is THE most powerful, flexible subtitling software that exists. Unfortunately it was developed in a bubble, completely oblivious to all of the standards and use cases in the professional world. This is not something that the rest of the world will "catch up to" someday. These features aren't in mainstream subtitling software because nobody outside of the anime world cares about these features. It's a total case of "Galapagos Syndrome" -- a little self-contained corner of the internet that matured completely cut off from the rest of the world, only to find out later that it took a completely different evolutionary path. Fansubs will always be able to do things the professionals can't. It's the nice part about not having to care if your viewers can play your video or not. SSA/ASS subtitles have been almost as standard as MKV for quite some time. To the point where PS3's and even some DVD players with non-dvd codec reading bundles for flash drives or burned disks can play non-animated ones. Virtually every PC player can handle them, as well as phone default players (android at the very least). If you're going to tell me that it's catering to anime pirates, then i'd have to disagree. PS: I'd imagine they were invented for karaoke, because CDG's are old and shit; hence animation. |
GenesisAriaDec 14, 2016 10:04 PM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
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