| You are in a Wapanese forum so of course there will be lots of people criticize western entertainment while glorifying everything Japan(even including Japanese war crime during WW2). However, the thread you show, I think what the OP mean is that no matter how much we criticize, anime industry taste will not change for westerners simply because anime industry in the west is irrelevant. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
| Really? I don't think so. Maybe you come across some like that, but I don't think most people here have such an attitude. One's whereabout is irrelevant to criticism. Anyone can criticize anything. Anime is a work of art, and art is universal. I don't get what the deal is with Asian vs non-Asian stuff. Sounds pretty totalitarian. |
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| I mean, If the criticism is something that translate to "anime must cater more to the western audience" than I agree with the "anime is japanese" thing...Otherwise yeah, its kinda dumb... |
HyperLNov 10, 2016 4:36 AM
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
Zapredon said: For now, however from the graphs we've seen about the incomes of the anime industry the foreign market percentage is increasing by the year. I think western audience will have a bigger role as time goes by. However I don't think it will even change THAT much since a lot of western anime fans are fans of the industry in its current condition.anime industry taste will not change for westerners simply because anime industry in the west is irrelevant. There's also Shelter that despite me not liking it has made a step forward towards collaborations between westerner's ideas and japanese studios. Plus there's crunchyroll that started funding some anime. Expecting from the anime market to be isolated forever is unrealistic. DateYutaka said: No reasonable person would say that however every nation glorifies itself through media. Also that's not what Zapredon said, some western people glorify Japan because they know about US wrong doings but not Japan's. Saying that Japan did some things wrong doesn't mean US made everything right. There are wrongs and rights on both sides.Zapredon said: You are in a Wapanese forum so of course there will be lots of people criticize western entertainment while glorifying everything Japan(even including Japanese war crime during WW2). However, the thread you show, I think what the OP mean is that no matter how much we criticize, anime industry taste will not change for westerners simply because anime industry in the west is irrelevant. but the us has never done any thign wrong |
zalNov 10, 2016 5:03 AM
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DrGeroCreation said: Klassical said: Guardians of the Galaxy was a good movie.IAccording to today's critics; Guardian of Galaxy and Star Wars 7 are excellent films. Yea? ichii_1 said: That's BS ichi.No, it's because you criticize anime then praise western shit like it's flawless and doesnt' have any fan service, power wank etc... But Star wars 7 was not That great, it had some issues |
DrGeroCreation said: Klassical said: Guardians of the Galaxy was a good movie.IAccording to today's critics; Guardian of Galaxy and Star Wars 7 are excellent films. Yea? How so? Maybe you mean Good Visuals, then i would have to agree with you. Story/Characters/Acting sucked really bad. Story was full of plot convenience, predictable, plot armor and deus ex machina, it also had a few moments where you go WTF why do this? it is a very stupid story. Characters are all one dimensional with nothing special, your typical underdogs who win (by having plot armor and etc...) at the end against the evil villain for the sake of being evil, also villains so dumb with almost zero characterizations. Not to mention the horrible cheap acting. No depth at all just pretty visuals and mindless action for the people to enjoy their cinema 3d experience. Overrated movie as always and why? because of these critics that you follow, think for yourself and dont follow the critics when they say the movie is good (btw i'm not talking about you specifically here, its for all the people who rate anything the RT critics like with 9 or 10). So how is that good if we get every year about 20 movies similar to it? Such waste of a big budget. No, i say we give these big budget to anime studios, at least they make something creative and interesting with it. |
DateYutaka said: What are you referring with "zapdrin harks"?zal said: For now, however from the graphs we've seen about the incomes of the anime industry the foreign market percentage is increasing by the year. I think western audience will have a bigger role as time goes by. However I don't think it will even change THAT much since a lot of western anime fans are fans of the industry in its current condition. There's also Shelter that despite me not liking it has made a step forward towards collaborations between westerner's ideas and japanese studios. Plus there's crunchyroll that started funding some anime. Expecting from the anime market to be isolated forever is unrealistic. No reasonable person would say that however every nation glorifies itself through media. Also that's not what Zapredon said, some western people glorify Japan because they know about US wrong doings but not Japan's. Saying that Japan did some things wrong doesn't mean US made everything right. There are wrongs and rights on both sides. im the first oone ot dmist my ntion has done thing wrong but no oone bring up us wrong doing like zapdrin harks on baout Japans wrong doing The thing is that this is an anime forum so Japan is more on focus than US. I am european so both nations are more or less equal to me but I tend to speak more about Japan here because the context favours topics about Japan and not US. Or are you talking about other contexts than MAL? |
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DrGeroCreation said: Anime can't be criticized because it's Asian and not Western? That's the kind of vibe I get on Mal. Whenever anyone says anything critical about anime people on here are always like it's not for you and it's only for the Japanese so you can't criticize. On Mal it seems it's okay to criticize western entertainment even if you are not from America or Europe but it's not okay to criticize anime if you are not Japanese. There are very few kinds of situations where this counter-argument is actually applicable. 1) But in my school, that could not have happened! Well, duh, that's because you've studied somewhere that isn't Japan, and isn't much like Japan. My school was nothing like anime schools, and probably nothing like your school too. Also applies to other situations that aren't schools, but are probably very different in other countries. 2) There aren't enough black african-american people in this anime! There aren't all that many countries where you see people of african descent every day. For example, I see them about once a month, and think that they must be foreign students. Japan doesn't have much of them too. There are koreans and chinese in Japan and in anime, but unless they go overboard with stereotyping, it's hard to tell which anime characters are foreigners. 3) Jesus, this anime got [any western concept] all wrong! Yeah, it often happens, but we can't really do anything about it. Ignorance is a really strong force. 4) [random statement that makes no sense outside of USA] That's because you're american. Don't go forcing your delusions on the rest of the world. Yankee go home, as they say. |
| I'm not even that long here or active in the forums but even I have seen it several times by now. I have mixed feelings about this tho, I mean they are not wrong tho if they say its not meant for the western audience, but its not really a reason why we can't criticize it, just the other day I saw an trailer from an german movie with japanese subtitles on yt and had a huge amount of dislikes while the original trailer had almost none, I'm pretty sure the critics from the JP reviewers are not that much better. Every medium can be criticized from anyone, and taking always in consideration that by the original country standards, they might see it differently its kinda stupid, we have no way of knowing that unless you have actually spent your whole life there |
| I'm 100% Asian so I have a legit right to criticize anime. |
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zal said: It can, everything can be criticized however sometimes those criticisms might be wrong because of ignorance THIS. A popular SJW argument is how "underaged girls are being sexualized which means the anime must be for pedophiles". Evidently they are too stupid to realize: 1.Japan "underage" and American "underage" are SHOCKER, DIFFERENT AGES!? 2. A lot of these shows with these "underaged girls" are aimed at "underaged boys", not adult men. Lord....that drives me nuts. lol |
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You said: I'm 100% Asian so I have a legit right to criticize anime. this. Also, OP. If you've been on here long enough (ie. a goddamn day) you'll realise that anime is basically slagged to hell and back. Just look at poor SAO and TG and Shingeki. |
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OneTrueEmiya said: Fuck you're alive? Now let's make AD great again!You said: I'm 100% Asian so I have a legit right to criticize anime. this. Also, OP. If you've been on here long enough (ie. a goddamn day) you'll realise that anime is basically slagged to hell and back. Just look at poor SAO and TG and Shingeki. |
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You said: OneTrueEmiya said: Fuck you're alive? Now let's make AD great again!this. Also, OP. If you've been on here long enough (ie. a goddamn day) you'll realise that anime is basically slagged to hell and back. Just look at poor SAO and TG and Shingeki. Yus, why stop there though? We gotta make MAL great again...! |
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OneTrueEmiya said: You said: Fuck you're alive? Now let's make AD great again! Yus, why stop there though? We gotta make MAL great again...! And how do you plan on making MAL great again? |
... I'll build a wall to keep out r/anime fags, and deport all SJWs :) we'll also overthrow the current system, dethrone the mods! |
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Lol... And promote elitist? Or promote how great CGDCT is? |
I will make loli legal, make moe more misogynistic than ever, make your precious chinese cartoons get onto oscar nominations. That enough for ya? |
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OneTrueEmiya said: I will make loli legal, make moe more misogynistic than ever, make your precious chinese cartoons get onto oscar nominations. That enough for ya? My life is complete... I'll be seeing that in the shadows... While I fap... |
_Ako_ said: OneTrueEmiya said: I will make loli legal, make moe more misogynistic than ever, make your precious chinese cartoons get onto oscar nominations. That enough for ya? My life is complete... I'll be seeing that in the shadows... While I fap... kk just remember to vote for the VIP SHITPOSTERS party, we need to defeat the crooked MAL MODS party~ |
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Chiibi said: I was referring more to literature criticism than moral ones.zal said: It can, everything can be criticized however sometimes those criticisms might be wrong because of ignorance THIS. A popular SJW argument is how "underaged girls are being sexualized which means the anime must be for pedophiles". Evidently they are too stupid to realize: 1.Japan "underage" and American "underage" are SHOCKER, DIFFERENT AGES!? 2. A lot of these shows with these "underaged girls" are aimed at "underaged boys", not adult men. Lord....that drives me nuts. lol It is hard to say that a moral criticism is wrong since it's mostly a grey area with few black and whites. 1. How they are different? And how is it relevant to lolis? 2. I don't think the issue is the aimed demographics but more the depiction of "underage girls" so why is it even a point? |
zalNov 10, 2016 9:37 AM
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OneTrueEmiya said: kk just remember to vote for the VIP SHITPOSTERS party, we need to defeat the crooked MAL MODS party~ You have my support for enlightening me to greatness; your greatness... |
| Honestly, if you criticized anything a group of people like they get offended, like you are criticizing them and not the product. So I'd say a lot of people think it's not okay to criticize anything depending sadly. Personally, I hate the overexaggerated reactions in anime. It's like when films transitioned from silent to sound but the theatrical displays still stayed. Horrible for those that prefer subtle things. If I wasn't pressed for time I'd sit here and praise FA. It's fantastic in my opinion. Far better than Return of the Jedi... |
"How are they different"? Are you kidding? In the USA, any character under the age of 18 would be considered a minor. If the minor is sexualized, people call this "child pornography". In Japan, they don't consider it "child porn" unless the character is under 13 If a fourteen-year-old is watching an anime character the same age as him flash her panties, that's his right, isn't it? It's not his fault, nor the studio that made the show that some 40-year-old dude might get off to this. But SJWs seem to be under the impression that loli characters are MADE for pedophiles, not for kids the same age as them....because they never bother researching what they rant about. |
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Chiibi said: It seems it is called "child pornography" by the law in Japan as well."How are they different"? Are you kidding? In the USA, any character under the age of 18 would be considered a minor. If the minor is sexualized, people call this "child pornography". In Japan, they don't consider it "child porn" unless the character is under 13 "It remains unclear why just the under-15 section of the industry, sometimes referred to as U15, is being affected as the child prostitution and pornography laws, clearly define "child" as a person under the age of 18. Yet the industry continues to use girls aged 16 and 17. " http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB23Aa02.html If a fourteen-year-old is watching an anime character the same age as him flash her panties, that's his right, isn't it? It's not his fault, nor the studio that made the show that some 40-year-old dude might get off to this. So how about flashing the panties of a 11 years old? Is that bad while a 14 is good?But SJWs seem to be under the impression that loli characters are MADE for pedophiles, not for kids the same age as them....because they never bother researching what they rant about. Well not only SJW have negative opinion about this topic."Last October, the Japanese government issued the results of its Special Opinion Poll on Harmful Materials, in which 86.5% of respondents said that manga and art should be subject to regulation for child pornography, while 90.9% said that "harmful materials" on the Internet should be regulated." From the same article. |
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zal said: Chiibi said: It seems it is called "child pornography" by the law in Japan as well."How are they different"? Are you kidding? In the USA, any character under the age of 18 would be considered a minor. If the minor is sexualized, people call this "child pornography". In Japan, they don't consider it "child porn" unless the character is under 13 "It remains unclear why just the under-15 section of the industry, sometimes referred to as U15, is being affected as the child prostitution and pornography laws, clearly define "child" as a person under the age of 18. Yet the industry continues to use girls aged 16 and 17. " http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB23Aa02.html If a fourteen-year-old is watching an anime character the same age as him flash her panties, that's his right, isn't it? It's not his fault, nor the studio that made the show that some 40-year-old dude might get off to this. So how about flashing the panties of a 11 years old? Is that bad while a 14 is good?But SJWs seem to be under the impression that loli characters are MADE for pedophiles, not for kids the same age as them....because they never bother researching what they rant about. Well not only SJW have negative opinion about this topic."Last October, the Japanese government issued the results of its Special Opinion Poll on Harmful Materials, in which 86.5% of respondents said that manga and art should be subject to regulation for child pornography, while 90.9% said that "harmful materials" on the Internet should be regulated." From the same article. I personally don't see a problem with ANYTHING that is a drawing. It's a goddamn drawing. It's fake. It doesn't exist. People need to just calm the f*ck down and stop getting offended over stupid shit like fantasy drawings. |
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Chiibi said: Now from laws and argumentation you switched to personal opinion. You don't see any problem but some people see something offensive or immoral in those drawings. Can they voice their opinion?zal said: It seems it is called "child pornography" by the law in Japan as well. "It remains unclear why just the under-15 section of the industry, sometimes referred to as U15, is being affected as the child prostitution and pornography laws, clearly define "child" as a person under the age of 18. Yet the industry continues to use girls aged 16 and 17. " http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB23Aa02.html So how about flashing the panties of a 11 years old? Is that bad while a 14 is good? Well not only SJW have negative opinion about this topic. "Last October, the Japanese government issued the results of its Special Opinion Poll on Harmful Materials, in which 86.5% of respondents said that manga and art should be subject to regulation for child pornography, while 90.9% said that "harmful materials" on the Internet should be regulated." From the same article. I personally don't see a problem with ANYTHING that is a drawing. It's a goddamn drawing. It's fake. It doesn't exist. People need to just calm the f*ck down and stop getting offended over stupid shit like fantasy drawings. If you look from the materialistic perspective you are right, they are just drawings. However they are representation or even symbols of something bigger and more real. They are not getting mad at the drawing itself but at what it represents despite you agreeing or not. Also from the last sentence it seems you are the one that needs to calm down a bit. |
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zal said: You don't see any problem but some people see something offensive or immoral in those drawings. Can they voice their opinion? Voicing their opinion is fine but they get all accusatory and judgmental of people who watch this stuff and that is not fine. Trying to get rid of a type of media because "I don't like it" is not fine either. I have seen blogs of feminazis and such telling people "If you enjoy this kind of anime, you are sick, a rapist, and you must never date anyone EVER". I have literally seen those words. If I see something in media, I don't like, I ignore it or stay away from it. These people though are all...."No, no, we cannot allow this to exist. We must get rid of it!" Also from the last sentence it seems you are the one that needs to calm down a bit. Uh no. Lol, I'm not the one who is trying to CHANGE media or censor art that others enjoy. And I'm really sick of this argument. I'm sick of seeing this being made into an issue. We have way more serious issues in the world than something as dumb as this. |
ChiibiNov 10, 2016 11:21 AM
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| I have no clue if this is an actual issue, but if it is, you might be asking in the wrong place. A reason why people here rarely or never see this problem might be related to the fact that MAL is an anime site where thousands of Westerners review anime. Isn't it counterproductive to ask a question like that on a site like this? |
| I can't say that I see that mentality much, and even when I do, it's a handful of people that purport the notion; you cannot generalise that to the entirety of the MAL forums. This just seems like a kneejerk reaction to something you once saw. Either that, or a flat out strawman. I read the forums almost daily and I can quite safely say that this line of thinking is not a prevalent one. |
 It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether! It's an entirely different kind of flying. |
Chiibi said: Then you are not complaining about the ignorance about underage concept in Japan but about some people being and obnoxious... on the internet... ehhh...zal said: You don't see any problem but some people see something offensive or immoral in those drawings. Can they voice their opinion? Voicing their opinion is fine but they get all accusatory and judgmental of people who watch this stuff and that is not fine. Also from the last sentence it seems you are the one that needs to calm down a bit. Uh no. Lol, I'm not the one who is trying to CHANGE media or censor art that others enjoy. And I'm really sick of this argument. I'm sick of seeing this being made into an issue. Ignore it.We have way more serious issues in the world than something as dumb as this. This is not an argumentation nor relevant to the discussion. |
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| People are free to criticize anything they want, including foreign media, just as the person reading the criticism is free to dismiss said criticism for whatever reason if they don't agree with the opinions expressed. |
KruszerNov 10, 2016 12:22 PM
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
zal said: Chiibi said: Then you are not complaining about the ignorance about underage concept in Japan but about some people being and obnoxious... on the internet... ehhh...Voicing their opinion is fine but they get all accusatory and judgmental of people who watch this stuff and that is not fine. It would be GREAT if it only stuck to "the internet" but people are actually getting arrested for this shit. Video game content is already being altered because of people like this. Do you enjoy it? Are you trying to defend media? Whether I enjoy it on a personal level is irrelevant. I'm defending that things have a right to exist once someone creates them. Ignore it. How am I supposed to do that? It's everywhere. |
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Chiibi said: You mean like how annoying weebs always like to say western cartoons are only for kids even though it's a known fact that western cartoons have stuff to appeal to adults like sexual innuendo and old cultural references that only adults would pick up.THIS. A popular SJW argument is how "underaged girls are being sexualized which means the anime must be for pedophiles". flannan said: I'm not American flannan.That's because you're american. Don't go forcing your delusions on the rest of the world. Yankee go home, as they say. @Klassical LOL most of that is personal opinion, like the acting. You complaining about it being like any other movie , focusing on action, not being deep and not trying to be different shows the hypocrisy I'm trying to talk about on Mal. If someone said that about some ecchi or moe anime being cookiecutter, not deep and not being special so it's bad everyone would be like oh my God you are supposed to watch it just for entertainment, stop complaining about the industry, it's not for you it's for the Japanese etc. |
DrGeroCreationNov 10, 2016 4:12 PM
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| @DateYutaka Anime has nothing like SouthPark , a show with enough balls to satire every aspect of Japanese culture and society and Japanese politics. Major social and political commentary on Japanese society, culture and politics is always off limits. Abe is always safe from any animated scrutiny. There is no anime as super character driven as Regular Show, no anime with a post apocalyptic world as unique as Adventure Time's and no anime with different country settings on an almost episode by episode level like Mickey Mouse 2013. |
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DateYutaka said: Doubt on the same level as SouthPark.DrGeroCreation said: @DateYutaka Anime has nothing like SouthPark , a show with enough balls to satire every aspect of Japanese culture and society and Japanese politics. Major social and political commentary on Japanese society, culture and politics is always off limits. There is no anime as super character driven as Regular Show, no anime with a post apocalyptic world as unique as Adventure Time's and no anime with different country settings on an almost episode by episode level like Mickey Mouse 2013. not really shin chan made jokes about that sort of thing |
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| Yes, random episodes a long while ago. It's not on the same level as Southpark when it comes to satire and social commentary. |
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| @DrGeroCreation Wait! first of all i have to say that there was some kind of misunderstanding because i rushed to shit on RT critics with modern films. (being so disappointed in them recently) My point was that i dont want the criticism of Anime to be the same kind as the RT/modern western mainstream criticism. That was my point, i wanted a criticism that is fair and without hype or bribe like we see today. So to your original question, I believe both Anime and other mediums should have criticism because from that we learn how to make things better and offer interesting arguments and ideas. And from what I've seen, most of people here on MAL don't say that anime can't be criticized, and as you can see the reviews of many top anime include many low scores and very harsh criticism in it. Compare that with for example IMDB and you will see the huge difference. Second regarding the movie, true there is no objective criticism, but the stuff i have mentioned is from a universal critical stand-point scale, you can check it and that's how most classic criticism in these mediums work. |
| SouthPark has parodied Mexican illegal immigration, Trump running for president, TSA violation of privacy, American privileged SJWs, American obsession with gun ownership, the absurdity of Scientology, gentrification, the economic crisis, Black Friday shopping craze etc. No anime goes to that kind of length of social commentary. @Klassical Here's what I'm saying. If moe shows and ecchi shows can be shielded from criticism for being just fun and not needing to be deep then the same can go for a movie like Guardians of the Galaxy. |
DrGeroCreationNov 10, 2016 5:58 PM
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| @DateYutaka Give me examples of an anime with the much social commentary. Zapredon said: By that logic anime fans should stop always criticizing western cartoons for not being like anime. Western cartoons are not for anime fans . I think what the OP mean is that no matter how much we criticize, anime industry taste will not change for westerners simply because anime industry in the west is irrelevant. It's funny how he says that yet recently you had 21days and Space Dandy last year which we clearly aiming at a non Japanese fanbase. |
DrGeroCreationNov 10, 2016 6:05 PM
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DrGeroCreation said: @Klassical Here's what I'm saying. If moe shows and ecchi shows can be shielded from criticism for being just fun and not needing to be deep then the same can go for a movie like Guardians of the Galaxy. Well, in that exact statement, I completely agree with you. Either be critical or not, it doesn't matter if its Japanese or Swedish or whatever it is. I may be a bit more harsh in western movies because of budget, talents and more skilled people, audience, and universal support. (which unfortunately Anime industry doesn't have as much as them) But in the end i analyse both because i find some fun in it. |
| @Klassical IMDB to me is very lenient specifically when it comes to anime and more critical when it comes to everything else (especially western cartoons). Like garbage like Akame Ga Kill and No Game No Life getting 8.1s yet interesting french animated movies like the The Painting and Tales of the Night can't even get close to an 8. One Punch Man which is just a parody of the superhero genre and has no great story gets a whooping 9 while Young Justice which is one of the best written superhero animated tv series in existence gets a lower score. Hyped seasonal anime on IMBD never really ever get a score below high 7's (7.6 and up). |
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