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Jun 21, 2015 12:01 PM

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albertrojas said:
Botato said:
Uhhh... Yeah sure, why not.

I want the "Mix the two endings" ending, to be honest. I mean, for the lack of Fate Route Ufotable adaptation because, let's be honest, that's the most Ufotable can do to cater Saber's fans.(Myself included. Though I like all the girls. pretty much equally.) And those sad at the bittersweet ending of Fate.(Again, myself included.)

Well considering what we have, the "Mix-the-ends" End is really plausible lol.

It's my negative outlook though that tells me we ARE gonna get what seems to be True End, but is actually Miura End.
Jun 21, 2015 12:18 PM

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MrMik1995 said:
So i don't get it,should i watch Fate/Stay Night or not? I have heard lot of bad comments about it
And can i go watch Fate/Zero after last episode comes up or should i wait for Heaven's Feel?
Also if its no spoiler,how did Archer suddenly began to look like grown up Emiya?
I mean i know he is supposed to be a Emiya but still Archer looked different before right.

Hair down like in his past:

Jun 21, 2015 12:36 PM
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4/5

This episode got an extra point for the sick visuals. This is what the anime medium does best and it delivered on the Shirou/Archer fight.

Shiro's beloved monologues are exercises in saying the exact same god damn thing 100 different ways. The formula generally follows this pattern.
1) An Acknowledgment that he [is a fake/ borrows ideals/ follows an impossible path/ doomed to regret his life/ doomed to fail/ can't save everyone]
2) Flashback to the fire scene with non sequitur reflections on not being able to personally save everyone
3) Admiration for Kiritsugu---cut to either Kiritsugu's rescue face or porch talk face
4) Then some drivel about "so what if it's borrowed/fake/impossible etc?" (btw how is an ideal borrowed if you yourself believe in it? Jesus...).
5) It's a beautiful ideal and I refuse to give up
6) Energy power up.

I was getting PTSD flashbacks when the episode opened on that note...but fortunately it was relatively short

Fight with Gil was awesome imo. It was an amazing showcase of beautiful animation, bullet time slo-mo, and imaginative choreography. They also resisted the urge to make Shiruo an all powerful badass by reinforcing the fact several times that Shirou would be fucked against any other servant.

Grail fight was anticlimactic. I wish the VN and anime would gave given the viewer a better explanation for why the fuck anyone would go out of their way to rescue Shinji. Shirou is enough of a dipshit to risk his life for someone who tried to rape/murder him, but Rin should know better. It felt OOC. The only reason I can think of would be HF spoiler


Ass pulls 1, Archer's comeback: In the VN was an asspull to be sure but in the anime it is even more ridiculous. ufotable pulled an annoying an inconsistent gotcha on its viewers. For every other servant, blue fucking fairy dust = death. No exceptions. That's why nobody could complain when Lancer stood the fuck back up, stabbed Kirei and got Rin's number...we never saw him fade away. Archer on the other hand was on the verge of disappearing BEFORE he cast his 2nd UBW, fought Shirou, got stabbed by Shirou, got impaled 5 times by Gil, then got blasted by Gil...and then disappeared in burst blue fairy dust. But apparently the rules don't matter anymore. For all we know, the VN's Good Ending is still on the table


Asspull 2, Rho Aias: We saw archer cast Rho Aias but there wasn't too much back story on how he was able to project a shield (instead of a sword), how he learned to do that, how Shiro learned to do that (he was fighting Caster when Archer used it against Lancer). etc. It's a cool move to be sure, but for something that saved Shiruo's ass at least 3 times during the fight with Gil I would have liked some explanation.

Thoughts on the ending:
It was adequate and more or less faithful to the spirit of the VN from what I remember. I thought the VN was more touching but only because you can read their thoughts. I am happy that the episode ended when it did as it will allow for (hopefully) a substantive epilogue. I would not object to quality new material or some hint about the HF project in the works.
Jun 21, 2015 12:38 PM
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-Zeaos said:
Shitty episode, except the awesome Animation.


Opinions really are like assholes.
Jun 21, 2015 12:42 PM
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G_Aker said:
TokonatsuYuu said:

Deen's version of the fight had the onore onore! Ahhahah. Was a more climatic fight in my opinion.


Yeah the ifght in Deen's version felt more intense and you can rly see that Gilgamesh is struggling there. For Ufo's version it is more accurate but the intensity is lose. Gilgamesh just keeps slowly taking his time to up his game until a point where he just gets rekt before he can get serious. Deen's version shows it str8 off (lack of time probably) that Gil is struggling thus it made the fight more satisfying.

Fk Emiya shirou though. Gilgamesh should have rekt him str8 away.


Ehhhh, sounds more like a personal preference thing to me.
If Gil just "rekt" Shirou straight away, then he wouldn't be Gil.
Jun 21, 2015 1:06 PM

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This fight was a bit more exaggerated than in the visual novel but it had swords flying from the ground which is awesome and how I imagined UBW worked!

Anime is good, fucking deal with it.
Jun 21, 2015 2:11 PM

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Dragon_Slayer_X said:
Sigh i wouldn't have complained if they didn't change the damn end of the battle. The expectation were low to begin with and UFO is all about pretty colors and cool shit over lore but what was the point of making it look like Shirou got saved because Goldie hesitated for a moment and then the grail comes to say "Hi Gil, playtime is over".

Couldn't they let Shirou own Gil like in the VN where Gil barely had time to pull out EA......i am still in wondering whether Shirou's VN version makes Miura insecure or something since his scenes are altered most of the time to tone down his badassery or throw it away.

Well Mahouka adaptation ruined my trust in Madhouse and now UBW adaptation ruined it for Ufotable. I rather have truthful adaptation without pretty backgrounds over mutations with cool shit.


Yeah, thanks to ufoUBW every time I see "Ufotable" as studio listed upon some new product I will not go "uhhhh" instead of "Yay". I am not even sure if I want to watch God Eater considering how insulting all the care they put into it instead of ubw is.
Jun 21, 2015 2:57 PM
Supreme Tsundere

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This was the most epic part of the route, and I m glad they adapted it this well.
Emiya's was also great.



EPIC!
Jun 21, 2015 3:00 PM

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Botato said:
damastah said:
Btw, from the looks of it, we're getting True End.

At least I hope, but nah in reality, the odds are:
10% - True End
10% - Mix-the-ends End
80% - Miura Special Saikou Ultra Mega Super-special hot chili deep-fried End
Uhhh... Yeah sure, why not.


I want more AO, bring it on.

Let the Salt Bridges cry in pain.
Jun 21, 2015 3:03 PM

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damastah said:
Btw, from the looks of it, we're getting True End.

At least I hope, but nah in reality, the odds are:
10% - True End
10% - Mix-the-ends End
80% - Miura Special Saikou Ultra Mega Super-special hot chili deep-fried End


There will be Gray, and you will like it. :^)
The sun is a deadly laser
Jun 21, 2015 3:10 PM

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mira-nyan said:
damastah said:
Btw, from the looks of it, we're getting True End.

At least I hope, but nah in reality, the odds are:
10% - True End
10% - Mix-the-ends End
80% - Miura Special Saikou Ultra Mega Super-special hot chili deep-fried End


There will be Gray, and you will like it. :^)


Lala, plz don't get my hopes up T_T
Jun 21, 2015 3:15 PM

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ProphecyPriest said:
mira-nyan said:


There will be Gray, and you will like it. :^)


Lala, plz don't get my hopes up T_T


The sun is a deadly laser
Jun 21, 2015 3:23 PM

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mira-nyan said:
ProphecyPriest said:


Lala, plz don't get my hopes up T_T




I will kiss you if that happens. :3
Jun 21, 2015 3:24 PM

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Oh yeah ! This episode was great, I love you Ufotable ! The use of the OST and that animation was incredible. Shiro is clearly more badass here than in the first route. Dat Excalibur and Archer OvO
There are too much things to describe, this episode was awesome. Great job Ufotable and I can't wait for the next week.
Jun 21, 2015 3:36 PM

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CookingPriest said:


Yeah, thanks to ufoUBW every time I see "Ufotable" as studio listed upon some new product I will not go "uhhhh" instead of "Yay". I am not even sure if I want to watch God Eater considering how insulting all the care they put into it instead of ubw is.


Silver Link: C3, Strike the blood, OniAi...

pfff...
Jun 21, 2015 3:38 PM

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Do you guys think we are getting anything from the CW?
I don't think Brilliant Years is long enough to get a full episode.
Jun 21, 2015 3:39 PM

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Botato said:
RedRoseFring said:
Looking at the previous thread, I cannot understand how someone can think F/Z is better than every F/SN route, but F/SN is still better as a whole.
How does that work? If you give each route a 6/10 and F/Z a 9/10, how does three 6/10s > 9/10? Or even 7 or 8?
Because the routes aren't 6/10.
And in general poeple put F/Z above Fate route only. So two routes are considered better than Zero, and the whole package gives a far superior experience.


That's a shame then that ufotable butchered it so. With these anime, I cannot see how any first time watcher would consider UBW to be better than F/Z.
So, Heaven's Feel is the fan favourite Route? I don't feel like getting disappointed again.
"Let Justice Be Done!"

My Theme
Fight again, fight again for justice!
Jun 21, 2015 3:41 PM

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RedRoseFring said:
Botato said:
Because the routes aren't 6/10.
And in general poeple put F/Z above Fate route only. So two routes are considered better than Zero, and the whole package gives a far superior experience.


That's a shame then that ufotable butchered it so. With these anime, I cannot see how any first time watcher would consider UBW to be better than F/Z.
So, Heaven's Feel is the fan favourite Route? I don't feel like getting disappointed again.


Fanbase is generally split between UBW and HF. Take the poll now UBW wins, take the poll when HF is out and HF wins. Pretty sure Zero fans will like a butchered HF far more than a butchered UBW regardless though.
Jun 21, 2015 3:49 PM

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RedRoseFring said:
Botato said:
Because the routes aren't 6/10.
And in general poeple put F/Z above Fate route only. So two routes are considered better than Zero, and the whole package gives a far superior experience.


That's a shame then that ufotable butchered it so. With these anime, I cannot see how any first time watcher would consider UBW to be better than F/Z.
So, Heaven's Feel is the fan favourite Route? I don't feel like getting disappointed again.


You could always form your own opinion and read the VN :).
Jun 21, 2015 3:49 PM

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ZeroDragon said:
xcess090 said:





Zankoku na tenshi no you ni shounen yo shinwa ni nare


Someone go make an Evangelion OP parody with Fate/ please.
Jun 21, 2015 3:52 PM

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Zuihou said:


Someone go make an Evangelion OP parody with Fate/ please.


Well, didn't we have Shinji in his "robot"?
Jun 21, 2015 3:53 PM

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KamiCity said:
Dazardz said:
Can someone explain to me how Archer managed to somehow return for a little while? I'm too stupid to understand.

He was never dead, he went into spirit form to fake his death. If you pause the scene where Gil hits him most of Gils weapons missed.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/3yJPmL9.png[/im g]


That's a pretty poor explanation. Even ignoring the swords that were already sticking to him, there is one spear right in his back.
Even if we were to grant that Gil cannot feel the presence of a servant, the suggestion that he just hung around for that long after being stabbed in the back with no mana source is crazy.
If he is some sort of ultimate self-healer, that would make sense, but it would appear to be something else the anime left out.

From a lot of the complaints, it seems the anime left out too much background info which certainly made Shirou's fight look like an incredible asspull (like his tracing making Gil's weapons weaker while making his stronger), but even putting that aside, that would make Shirou invincible in UBW. I most certainly can't see someone as useless as Rider doing anything to him in there. None of the others would work either considering how he has apparently unlimited ammo, weakens their weapons by copying them and extreme ninja reflexes. Basically, Shirou would be the most powerful, regardless of servant or mage status in UBW. Pretty silly when compared to the exploits of other servants.
RedRoseFringJun 21, 2015 3:56 PM
"Let Justice Be Done!"

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Fight again, fight again for justice!
Jun 21, 2015 3:56 PM

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RedRoseFring said:
KamiCity said:

He was never dead, he went into spirit form to fake his death. If you pause the scene where Gil hits him most of Gils weapons missed.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/3yJPmL9.png[/im g]


That's a pretty poor explanation. Even ignoring the swords that were already sticking to him, there is one spear right in his back.
Even if we were to grant that Gil cannot feel the presence of a servant, the suggestion that he just hung around for that long after being stabbed in the back with no mana source is crazy.
If he is some sort of ultimate self-healer, that would make sense, but it would appear to be something else the anime left out.

From a lot of the complaints, it seems the anime left out too much background info which certainly made Shirou's fight look like an incredible asspull (like his tracing making Gil's weapons weaker while making his stronger), but even putting that aside, that would make Shirou invincible in UBW. I most certainly can't see someone as useless as Rider doing anything to him in there. None of the others would work either considering how he has apparently unlimited ammo and extreme ninja reflexes. Basically, Shirou would be the most powerful regardless of servant or mage status in UBW. Pretty silly when compared to the exploits of other servants.


If he has enough mana, he is very powerful.

But that is usually not the case.

Also remember that he had the memory leak from Archer. So he got years of experiences for free.

In Nasuverse, there are mages that actually more powerful than Servants.
Jun 21, 2015 3:57 PM

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RedRoseFring said:
KamiCity said:

He was never dead, he went into spirit form to fake his death. If you pause the scene where Gil hits him most of Gils weapons missed.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/3yJPmL9.png[/im g]


That's a pretty poor explanation. Even ignoring the swords that were already sticking to him, there is one spear right in his back.
Even if we were to grant that Gil cannot feel the presence of a servant, the suggestion that he just hung around for that long after being stabbed in the back with no mana source is crazy.
If he is some sort of ultimate self-healer, that would make sense, but it would appear to be something else the anime left out.

From a lot of the complaints, it seems the anime left out too much background info which certainly made Shirou's fight look like an incredible asspull (like his tracing making Gil's weapons weaker while making his stronger), but even putting that aside, that would make Shirou invincible in UBW. I most certainly can't see someone as useless as Rider doing anything to him in there. None of the others would work either considering how he has apparently unlimited ammo and extreme ninja reflexes. Basically, Shirou would be the most powerful regardless of servant or mage status in UBW. Pretty silly when compared to the exploits of other servants.


Whilst I agree that he is insanely powerful in UBW, it is really difficult to actually deploy. He only pulled it off because of Rho Aias blocking GOB. Against any other servant it wouldn't have worked as they would have walked around Rho Aias xD. But once inside UBW then yes, he can defeat almost any servant imo (definitely not Lancer though).
Jun 21, 2015 3:59 PM

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ChickenFry said:


If he has enough mana, he is very powerful.

But that is usually not the case.

Also remember that he had the memory leak from Archer. So he got years of experiences for free.


Seeing a move is different from copying it, unless in the novel the memory leak gave him magical copy abilities.

Also, since he was drawing mana from Rin, that would make Rin the most powerful mana source since she was fighting the Grail's curses, powering Saber and powering Shirou who was moving like a nimble shinobi.
"Let Justice Be Done!"

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Fight again, fight again for justice!
Jun 21, 2015 3:59 PM

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SaintEmiya said:
inside UBW then yes, he can defeat almost any servant imo (definitely not Lancer though).

Not really.
Jun 21, 2015 4:01 PM

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SaintEmiya said:


Whilst I agree that he is insanely powerful in UBW, it is really difficult to actually deploy. He only pulled it off because of Rho Aias blocking GOB. Against any other servant it wouldn't have worked as they would have walked around Rho Aias xD. But once inside UBW then yes, he can defeat almost any servant imo (definitely not Lancer though).


Well, for most of the time he didn't even need Rho Aias. He simply shot his own swords to counter Gil's and even knocked them out right at their origins. Copying whatever Servant's weapon is attacking him would also make it weaker and easier for him to counter.
"Let Justice Be Done!"

My Theme
Fight again, fight again for justice!
Jun 21, 2015 4:02 PM

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RedRoseFring said:
ChickenFry said:


If he has enough mana, he is very powerful.

But that is usually not the case.

Also remember that he had the memory leak from Archer. So he got years of experiences for free.


Seeing a move is different from copying it, unless in the novel the memory leak gave him magical copy abilities.

Also, since he was drawing mana from Rin, that would make Rin the most powerful mana source since she was fighting the Grail's curses, powering Saber and powering Shirou who was moving like a nimble shinobi.


Rin has potential of being one of the greatest mage. So she has a good mana pool.

But definitely not the best. Not in this universe.
Jun 21, 2015 4:03 PM

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Rider is useless now damn.

Archer's core was not destroyed = Archer is not dead.

Rin has the potential to be top 100 all time in the Mages Association.
Jun 21, 2015 4:03 PM

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Insertanamehere said:
SaintEmiya said:
inside UBW then yes, he can defeat almost any servant imo (definitely not Lancer though).

Not really.


Yea, he literally says Gil is the only servant he can use this to defeat.
Jun 21, 2015 4:03 PM

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RedRoseFring said:
SaintEmiya said:


Whilst I agree that he is insanely powerful in UBW, it is really difficult to actually deploy. He only pulled it off because of Rho Aias blocking GOB. Against any other servant it wouldn't have worked as they would have walked around Rho Aias xD. But once inside UBW then yes, he can defeat almost any servant imo (definitely not Lancer though).


Well, for most of the time he didn't even need Rho Aias. He simply shot his own swords to counter Gil's and even knocked them out right at their origins. Copying whatever Servant's weapon is attacking him would also make it weaker and easier for him to counter.


But he is jack of all trades, master of none. A Servant who mastered his weapon could beat Shirou easily.
Jun 21, 2015 4:08 PM

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Good episode, just as an anime viewer whose only seen the first 2006 fsn and fz anime, the things that happened here was pretty good.

There is a question I have though about what happened to Gil, since I've only seen how he's died in the 2006 fsn, I was wondering why that black hole (im assuming that's the grail) just suddenly appeared where his arm used to be and started pulling him in?
Jun 21, 2015 4:14 PM

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ChickenFry said:
RedRoseFring said:


Well, for most of the time he didn't even need Rho Aias. He simply shot his own swords to counter Gil's and even knocked them out right at their origins. Copying whatever Servant's weapon is attacking him would also make it weaker and easier for him to counter.


But he is jack of all trades, master of none. A Servant who mastered his weapon could beat Shirou easily.


Highly doubt that considering the portrayals. Also the fact that Shirou's copying will weaken theirs.
Considering that Gil was still skewering Hercules even without moving or using chains, I don't see how Shirou would have any problems doing the same in UBW when his blades aren't slower than Gil's, and Herc's sword would be weakened.
"Let Justice Be Done!"

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Fight again, fight again for justice!
Jun 21, 2015 4:16 PM

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RedRoseFring said:
Also the fact that Shirou's copying will weaken theirs.

It doesn't, though?
Jun 21, 2015 4:20 PM

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Insertanamehere said:
RedRoseFring said:
Also the fact that Shirou's copying will weaken theirs.

It doesn't, though?


Really? That's the explanation I was given as to why Shirou's copies were effortlessly repelling Gil's originals.
"Let Justice Be Done!"

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Fight again, fight again for justice!
Jun 21, 2015 4:22 PM

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RedRoseFring said:
Highly doubt that considering the portrayals. Also the fact that Shirou's copying will weaken theirs.
Considering that Gil was still skewering Hercules even without moving or using chains, I don't see how Shirou would have any problems doing the same in UBW when his blades aren't slower than Gil's, and Herc's sword would be weakened.

Berserker can only be hurt with A-rank NPs or more. Shirou's projections, due to their nature as imitation, have their ranks droped by 1. So any A-rank weapon he projects won't even be able to scratch Herc.

One way to up the rank is to overload the NP with mana and launch it from an arrow. This technique makes the NP a "Broken Phantasm", so an A-rank weapon will gain its rank, but function as a directed bomb instead of a melee weapon (Caladbolg against Herc in ep3 and against Caster in ep7).

Shirou doesn't have the agility or the endurance of Archer to spam Broken Phantasms from afar or withstand any of Herc's attacks in case he gets closer, so he'd die immediately.

Oh, and Rider (F/SN) would massacre Shirou inside and outside UBW BTW.
astroprogsJun 21, 2015 4:26 PM
Jun 21, 2015 4:24 PM

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RedRoseFring said:
Insertanamehere said:

It doesn't, though?


Really? That's the explanation I was given as to why Shirou's copies were effortlessly repelling Gil's originals.

Gilgamesh was just flinging his swords at Shirou though. Two of the exact sword flung at each other will cancel out. Against someone actually using their sword competently, however, Shirou gets owned hard.
FakePriest said:
RedRoseFring said:


Highly doubt that considering the portrayals. Also the fact that Shirou's copying will weaken theirs.
Considering that Gil was still skewering Hercules even without moving or using chains, I don't see how Shirou would have any problems doing the same in UBW when his blades aren't slower than Gil's, and Herc's sword would be weakened.

Though Herc was defending Ilya when fighting Gil so it doesn't really count as Herc's full strength.

And the fact that projected weapons are one rank below the originals will make piercing Berserker's God Hand very hard since it greatly reduces damage from any Noble Phantasm below A rank

EDIT: sniped
-Sherou-Jun 21, 2015 4:28 PM

Jun 21, 2015 4:27 PM

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RedRoseFring said:
Insertanamehere said:

It doesn't, though?


Really? That's the explanation I was given as to why Shirou's copies were effortlessly repelling Gil's originals.

Well it's actually supposed to be that Gil was forced to repel the one Shirou was attacking with with his own NP's, destroying them both in the process and having no chance to counter because UBW was faster than GOB, but the ones in UBW are actually weaker than the original NP's in GOB.

But then the anime changed that to having one single NP from UBW destroying a bunch of Gil's and Shirou doing the destroying himself so I don't really think you can apply that explanation here.
Jun 21, 2015 4:28 PM

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astroprogs said:
RedRoseFring said:
Highly doubt that considering the portrayals. Also the fact that Shirou's copying will weaken theirs.
Considering that Gil was still skewering Hercules even without moving or using chains, I don't see how Shirou would have any problems doing the same in UBW when his blades aren't slower than Gil's, and Herc's sword would be weakened.

Berserker can only be hurt with A-rank NPs or more. Shirou's projections, due to their nature as imitation, have their ranks droped by 1. So any A-rank weapon he projects won't be able to scratch Herc.

One way to up the rank is to overload the NP with mana and launch it from an arrow. This technique makes the NP a "Broken Phantasm", so an A-rank weapon will gain its rank, but function as a directed bomb instead of a weapon (Caladbolg against Herc in ep3 and against Caster in ep7).

Shirou doesn't have the agility or the endurance of Archer to spam Broken Phantasms from afar or withstand any of Herc's attacks in case he gets closer, so he'd die immediately.

Oh, and Rider (F/SN) would massacre Shirou inside and outside UBW BTW.


Mhmm you are right. Though the berserker thing is weird. I'm under the impression that Archer does have genuine A rank noble phantasm's without being broken and if he was in UBW then of course he could use them without penalty. It only becomes an issue when he has to actually trace them outside of UBW, there it seems to be more effective to trace lower ranked weapons and simply break them.

I just find it difficult to believe that with a damaged core he managed to break lots of weapons to kill berserker. I think he does have genuine A rank noble phantasms.
Jun 21, 2015 4:29 PM

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Awesome episode. Little sad that there's only 1 episode left...
Jun 21, 2015 4:30 PM
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Insertanamehere said:
RedRoseFring said:


Really? That's the explanation I was given as to why Shirou's copies were effortlessly repelling Gil's originals.

Well it's actually supposed to be that Gil was forced to repel the one Shirou was attacking with with his own NP's, destroying them both in the process and having no chance to counter because UBW was faster than GOB, but the ones in UBW are actually weaker than the original NP's in GOB.

But then the anime changed that to having one single NP from UBW destroying a bunch of Gil's and Shirou doing the destroying himself so I don't really think you can apply that explanation here.


Also he was moving like freaking Lancer lol
Jun 21, 2015 4:38 PM

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SaintEmiya said:
astroprogs said:

Berserker can only be hurt with A-rank NPs or more. Shirou's projections, due to their nature as imitation, have their ranks droped by 1. So any A-rank weapon he projects won't be able to scratch Herc.

One way to up the rank is to overload the NP with mana and launch it from an arrow. This technique makes the NP a "Broken Phantasm", so an A-rank weapon will gain its rank, but function as a directed bomb instead of a weapon (Caladbolg against Herc in ep3 and against Caster in ep7).

Shirou doesn't have the agility or the endurance of Archer to spam Broken Phantasms from afar or withstand any of Herc's attacks in case he gets closer, so he'd die immediately.

Oh, and Rider (F/SN) would massacre Shirou inside and outside UBW BTW.


Mhmm you are right. Though the berserker thing is weird. I'm under the impression that Archer does have genuine A rank noble phantasm's without being broken and if he was in UBW then of course he could use them without penalty. It only becomes an issue when he has to actually trace them outside of UBW, there it seems to be more effective to trace lower ranked weapons and simply break them.

I just find it difficult to believe that with a damaged core he managed to break lots of weapons to kill berserker. I think he does have genuine A rank noble phantasms.

The only way Archer's projected NP can be A-rank is if it originally was EX-rank, which is impossible because the highest ranked weapon inside UBW is A+. That means that highest ranked weapon inside Shirou's mental vault is A+ (B+ projected). He doesn't have any projected A-rank weapons.

UBW just provides the insane quantity of weapons without the mana penalty of projection, not the rank drop penalty. All weapons inside UBW are still a rank lower than their original counterparts.
Jun 21, 2015 4:38 PM

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Insertanamehere said:
RedRoseFring said:


Really? That's the explanation I was given as to why Shirou's copies were effortlessly repelling Gil's originals.

Well it's actually supposed to be that Gil was forced to repel the one Shirou was attacking with with his own NP's, destroying them both in the process and having no chance to counter because UBW was faster than GOB, but the ones in UBW are actually weaker than the original NP's in GOB.

But then the anime changed that to having one single NP from UBW destroying a bunch of Gil's and Shirou doing the destroying himself so I don't really think you can apply that explanation here.


Isn't that the same as in Prisma Illya Drei chap 24?

Blame UFO for reading Prisma too much.
Just_ChickenJun 21, 2015 4:48 PM
Jun 21, 2015 4:44 PM

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RedRoseFring said:
ChickenFry said:


But he is jack of all trades, master of none. A Servant who mastered his weapon could beat Shirou easily.


Highly doubt that considering the portrayals. Also the fact that Shirou's copying will weaken theirs.
Considering that Gil was still skewering Hercules even without moving or using chains, I don't see how Shirou would have any problems doing the same in UBW when his blades aren't slower than Gil's, and Herc's sword would be weakened.

Shirou could be dead before casting ubw.
He could be dead when he is casting ubw.
In ubw, Shirou don't have the chains so Berserker could kill him.
In ubw, his weapons aren't good as the real, he would have a hard time hurting Berserker.
And after ubw, since Shirou don't have enough endurance, mana and ubw don't last forever, Berserker could kill again.
Jun 21, 2015 4:44 PM

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Probably what ufo was trying to imply here that it could beat Silver Link in battle animations by using /kaleid liner mechanics.

If that's their true intention, I'm inclined to believe it was a success despite being nonsensically ridiculous adaptation-wise.

Though I'm quite certain that Shirou/Archer could make their opponent facing one hell of a hard time inside UBW (aside of Berserker Hercules) considering the anime portrayal, if not instantly beat them.
Jun 21, 2015 4:45 PM

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astroprogs said:
RedRoseFring said:
Highly doubt that considering the portrayals. Also the fact that Shirou's copying will weaken theirs.
Considering that Gil was still skewering Hercules even without moving or using chains, I don't see how Shirou would have any problems doing the same in UBW when his blades aren't slower than Gil's, and Herc's sword would be weakened.

Berserker can only be hurt with A-rank NPs or more. Shirou's projections, due to their nature as imitation, have their ranks droped by 1. So any A-rank weapon he projects won't even be able to scratch Herc.

One way to up the rank is to overload the NP with mana and launch it from an arrow. This technique makes the NP a "Broken Phantasm", so an A-rank weapon will gain its rank, but function as a directed bomb instead of a melee weapon (Caladbolg against Herc in ep3 and against Caster in ep7).

Shirou doesn't have the agility or the endurance of Archer to spam Broken Phantasms from afar or withstand any of Herc's attacks in case he gets closer, so he'd die immediately.

Oh, and Rider (F/SN) would massacre Shirou inside and outside UBW BTW.


So, the issue is with the anime again? Because Shirou's agility may have been arguably equal to Archer's in there (I think he jumped even higher). He also destroyed several of Gil's swords with a single projection at some point and also at the very end when Gil was forced to defend himself directly.

Someone else said that they still managed to cancel out even though Shirou's would be B-rank and Gil's A-rank, but does just being faster so easily cover the differences between ranks?

With the way Shirou was moving, it appears that he would easily dispel Rider. Either way, the whole "a servant can only be defeated by a servant" just seems to be a myth.
"Let Justice Be Done!"

My Theme
Fight again, fight again for justice!
Jun 21, 2015 4:48 PM

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RedRoseFring said:

With the way Shirou was moving, it appears that he would easily dispel Rider. Either way, the whole "a servant can only be defeated by a servant" just seems to be a myth.


None ever said that...

In Nasuverse, some mages can kill Servants easily...
Jun 21, 2015 4:49 PM

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ChickenFry said:
RedRoseFring said:

With the way Shirou was moving, it appears that he would easily dispel Rider. Either way, the whole "a servant can only be defeated by a servant" just seems to be a myth.


None ever said that...

In Nasuverse, some mages can kill Servants easily...


Um......that was actually said more than once irc.
"Let Justice Be Done!"

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Fight again, fight again for justice!
Jun 21, 2015 4:49 PM

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RedRoseFring said:

With the way Shirou was moving, it appears that he would easily dispel Rider. Either way, the whole "a servant can only be defeated by a servant" just seems to be a myth.


This is probably true to some extent. After all, Shirou not only copies the weapons themselves, but the experience, history and skill behind them. You'll see later in HF movies.

But the general rule that "Servants can only be defeated by Servants" still apply. It's just that Shirou is one of the exceptions for that rule giving certain circumstances.
Jun 21, 2015 4:50 PM

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Insertanamehere said:
RedRoseFring said:


Really? That's the explanation I was given as to why Shirou's copies were effortlessly repelling Gil's originals.

Well it's actually supposed to be that Gil was forced to repel the one Shirou was attacking with with his own NP's, destroying them both in the process and having no chance to counter because UBW was faster than GOB, but the ones in UBW are actually weaker than the original NP's in GOB.

But then the anime changed that to having one single NP from UBW destroying a bunch of Gil's and Shirou doing the destroying himself so I don't really think you can apply that explanation here.

He did said and use the explanation of the same weapons destroying each other in 23 during his swordrains.

And in this episode, we did see him use the same weapons as Gil a couple of times:
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