New
Dec 11, 2014 1:58 AM
#151
Kolios said: Kaioshin_Sama said: This thread kind of exemplifies why the whole Fate thing is kind of nauseating to me at least when it comes to the fanbase which is a shame cause the shows are fairly decent stuff for Visual Novel adaptation fare which I'm so very much not normally into. You wouldn't know it was supposed to be enjoyable or interesting though talking to the fanbase. This thread is a bait made by someone who is clearly not a fan. "People die when they are killed" is something that came out of an out of the context translation of the DEEN anime. It's not in the VN, yet the OP claims to have read the VN. The post above is bait too but at least it's trying to do it in a humorous way, which is fine. Yea between notJune and antonn, I'm starting to think you shouldn't trust Illya avatars... |
Dec 11, 2014 2:01 AM
#152
ANGRY2011 said: Yea between notJune and antonn, I'm starting to think you shouldn't trust Illya avatars... Liking Illya does things to people. |
Dec 11, 2014 2:09 AM
#153
Kaioshin_Sama said: This thread kind of exemplifies why the whole Fate thing is kind of nauseating to me at least when it comes to the fanbase which is a shame cause the shows are fairly decent stuff for Visual Novel adaptation fare which I'm so very much not normally into. You wouldn't know it was supposed to be enjoyable or interesting though talking to the fanbase. Thanks for going out of your way to insult an entire fanbase. Especially when you probably haven't even talked to 5% of them. Kolios said: ANGRY2011 said: Yea between notJune and antonn, I'm starting to think you shouldn't trust Illya avatars... Liking Illya does things to people. I like Illya -_- |
Dec 11, 2014 2:11 AM
#154
Kamipriest said: I like Illya -_- Careful then, you could be next. |
Dec 11, 2014 2:52 AM
#155
The reason I enjoyed F/0 more than this is because I like seeing the perspective of more than one characters and also how there is a distinguishable absence of a proper main character. It was enjoyable to get to see the tragedies, the characters struggle and the betrayals which was quite the treat. Overall the series had a darker tone, the fights involved more strategies and tactics instead of huge explosions and simple brawl while f/sn (ubw) has a lot of comedic scenes/slice of life feel to it which you usually get to see in most anime, sure it has awesome animation during fight scenes but that's all there is to it and some of the awkward dialogues doesn't help either. Heck even the Ost of Fate/zero was better than the current ones. HentaiPriest said: Z4k said: Oh you are so wrong.F/0 had better characters and its mainly about winning the grail war unlike f/sn which only about that dense shirou. No I'm not. In terms of execution and plot, Fate/zero is superior than both UBW and Fate route and you're being delusional in trying to deny it. Heaven's feel might prove me wrong so I'll wait and see how the movies will turn out. |
Dec 11, 2014 3:18 AM
#156
Z4k said: The reason I enjoyed F/0 more than this is because I like seeing the perspective of more than one characters and also how there is a distinguishable absence of a proper main character. It was enjoyable to get to see the tragedies, the characters struggle and the betrayals which was quite the treat. Overall the series had a darker tone, the fights involved more strategies and tactics instead of huge explosions and simple brawl while f/sn (ubw) has a lot of comedic scenes/slice of life feel to it which you usually get to see in most anime, sure it has awesome animation during fight scenes but that's all there is to it and some of the awkward dialogues doesn't help either. Heck even the Ost of Fate/zero was better than the current ones. HentaiPriest said: Z4k said: F/0 had better characters and its mainly about winning the grail war unlike f/sn which only about that dense shirou. No I'm not. In terms of execution and plot, Fate/zero is superior than both UBW and Fate route and you're being delusional in trying to deny it. Heaven's feel might prove me wrong so I'll wait and see how the movies will turn out. I thought it became fairly obvious early on in F/Z who the last people standing would be, and therefore who the real main characters were. Even so, F/Z does spend more time presenting from multiple perspectives than F/SN, which is more Shirou-centric, I'd agree with you. I'd also agree with you that F/Z is more tragic, considering it is an actual tragedy, whereas F/SN isn't. I will agree that F/SN has more SoL to it. I don't personally mind it, but if it isn't your thing, it isn't your thing. Those are all the things I agree with you on. Not a bad amount. Moving on to murkier waters: I don't recall the servant fights being any more tactical in F/Z than in F/SN. I suppose only Kiritsugu's planning stands out to me, so I may not remember it as well as you do, but I guess that also serves as a representation of the impression I got from it. Maybe I should refresh sometime. I don't agree that awesome animation is all UBW has to it. I think that's pretty dismissive. I don't agree that in terms of execution and plot Zero is superior. Firstly, I won't feel right comparing a complete F/Z to 9 episodes of UBW. Second, as far as I remember, UBW isn't inferior to the first 9 episodes of F/Z to me. You are, of course, allowed to have your opinion that F/Z is superior thus so far. I believe that some of what you claim makes F/Z superior to you is pretty legitimate, but also boils down to personal taste. I disagree, and that's ok. Buuuuuut you can't expect much good to come from starting with an inflammatory statement like your first post. Your second post was much better for discussion. |
Dec 11, 2014 3:23 AM
#157
Kaioshin_Sama said: So you ignore the troll and attack the fans.This thread kind of exemplifies why the whole Fate thing is kind of nauseating to me at least when it comes to the fanbase which is a shame cause the shows are fairly decent stuff for Visual Novel adaptation fare which I'm so very much not normally into. You wouldn't know it was supposed to be enjoyable or interesting though talking to the fanbase. Always the same routine.See you in the next bait thread. Z4k said: Thats your preference not objective view.The reason I enjoyed F/0 more than this is because I like seeing the perspective of more than one characters and also how there is a distinguishable absence of a proper main character. It was enjoyable to get to see the tragedies, the characters struggle and the betrayals which was quite the treat. Overall the series had a darker tone, the fights involved more strategies and tactics instead of huge explosions and simple brawl while f/sn (ubw) has a lot of comedic scenes/slice of life feel to it which you usually get to see in most anime, sure it has awesome animation during fight scenes but that's all there is to it and some of the awkward dialogues doesn't help either. Heck even the Ost of Fate/zero was better than the current ones. HentaiPriest said: Z4k said: F/0 had better characters and its mainly about winning the grail war unlike f/sn which only about that dense shirou. No I'm not. In terms of execution and plot, Fate/zero is superior than both UBW and Fate route and you're being delusional in trying to deny it. Heaven's feel might prove me wrong so I'll wait and see how the movies will turn out. How is FSN NOT about winning the war.How is it not about tactics?And how is Shirou dense in comparison to EVERYONE in FZ? Rin fights to win the war.She goes out at night to search for Masters at the start of the story.She tries to dispel an enemy's spell at school, fight a Master since she know that their Servants can beat hers,starts an active alliance with Shirou in order to find and beat the enemy Master at school,find and dispel any sigils they find.Just some of them. Shirou asks Saber to train him in order to be able to survive.Later he asks her to take it a step further and train him to fight.Saves Rin by drawing the attention of an enemy.Allies with Rin,helps Rin with the sigils,helps her find the other Masters,shares his info with her.Goal to stop any tragedy. Shinji makes Rider collect mana rom others and lets/makes her set up BloodFort Andromeda to suck everyone's soul to power her up.Tries to ally with either Shirou or Rin. Ilya doesnt care. Lancer's Master made him scout and find info for everyone.More revelations to come. Caster sucks life force from the entire town in order to fight Berserker, summoned Assassin as a guard and tried to steal Saber and persuade Shirou and Archer. In FZ, Tokiomi did nothing for the most part,he was only giving orders to Kirei and he hoped that everything will go well. Kirei just a puppet for a while. Kayneth.Oh this is gold.Lets draw the attention of every other Servant,lets use a Seal just to make the Servant retreat,planned traps in his hotel without considering how others may attack him(magi excuses are stupid),attacked the castle without any plan because of his superiority, gets wrecked,hands his role to Sola who is even worse and then loses everything. Ryuunosuke only needed a "Please kill me" neon sign to make it easier for the others. Waver.Some planning like finding Caster's lair but otherwise Rider was just dragging him along. Kiritsugu.The only one that was using tactics but they often relied on luck. Kariya.Shit I almost forgot to list him. And then we have Shirou the only one to think reasonable and have the balls to deny a magical tool that has the potential to bring destruction and the war that will lead to it. Waver had no idea what he was doing when he entered the war,he thought it was child's play,Kirei had no idea what he is,Tokiomi is Tokiomi,Kariya cant see anything except killing Tokiomi,Kayneth's sense of superiority is exactly what killed him,and Kiritsugu cant even think for a moment that there is something wrong about "world peace". I would like to talk about the Servants as well but you get the point I hope. |
ssjokgDec 11, 2014 3:30 AM
Dec 11, 2014 4:07 AM
#158
The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu". Very smart anime. |
Dec 11, 2014 4:11 AM
#159
notJune said: The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu". Very smart anime. I dunno, I'm quite fond of Kariya's "LOOK AT BERSERKER HA HA HA HA I'LL KILL YOU TOKIOMI" *coughs unlimited blood* and Tokiomi's "I'll just sit here in my house. Nice and easy. Good times. Nothing can go wrong if I stay here in my house." Good plans, good plans. |
Dec 11, 2014 4:17 AM
#160
Dec 11, 2014 4:24 AM
#161
notJune said: The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu". Very smart anime. That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long. He could have easily won the war but his troublesome servant and his trust in Kirei was the end of him. Trying to ignore the positive things in Fate/zero will not make F/Sn look smarter since the characters in it has done even dumber stuff. |
Z4KDec 11, 2014 4:29 AM
Dec 11, 2014 4:28 AM
#162
Z4k said: It was the only good plan.What followed after that was a disaster.He was too relaxed.notJune said: The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu". Very smart anime. That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long. |
Dec 11, 2014 4:33 AM
#163
Grey-Zone said: I actually watched F/Z first, but immidietly followed with the F/sn VN. Result: main character: UBW!Shirou/HF!Shirou >>>> ZERO!Kiritsugu >> FATE!Shirou enjoyment: UBW-route&HF-route > F/Z >>> Fate-route HF Shirou = Kerry (I like how they're the complete opposites of each other) > = UBW Shirou > Fate Shirou I like all three version of Shirou tbh (yes, even Fate!Shirou) Archer would be between UBW and HF Shirou. HA spoiler: Avenger would be between Fate and UBW Shirou HF > UBW > Fate Dunno where should I put Zero. |
Dec 11, 2014 4:33 AM
#164
Z4k said: notJune said: The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu". Very smart anime. That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long. He could have easily won the war but his troublesome servant and his trust in Kirei was the end of him. Trying to ignore the positive things in Fate/zero will not make F/Sn look smarter since the characters in it has done even dumber stuff. Shrug. I never understood why they essentially wasted the Assassin trump card with such impunity. It was a clever beginning plan, but it was basically immediately negated. I'd put it on the level of Shinji in F/SN. That Bloodfort Andromeda was a good idea, but he wasted it. |
Dec 11, 2014 4:36 AM
#165
HentaiPriest said: Z4k said: It was the only good plan.What followed after that was a disaster.He was too relaxed.notJune said: The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu". Very smart anime. That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long. But isn't shirou relaxed too? Rin attacked him in the school and could have almost killed him yet he seemed ok with it afterwards. I don't know but some of the scenes don't make it quite clear whether shirou is taking the war seriously or not. And even though Shirou seems relaxed, he has luck while Tokiomi obviously did not. Edit: Typo |
Dec 11, 2014 4:44 AM
#166
You sure you read the VN OP? Anyway, I found Fate/Zero better than any of the three routes of FSN individually going as Zero>Fate/UBW>HF. I do recommend it. |
Dec 11, 2014 4:49 AM
#167
Z4k said: HentaiPriest said: Z4k said: notJune said: The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu". Very smart anime. That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long. But isn't shirou relaxed too? Rin attacked him in the school and could have almost killed him yet he seemed ok with it afterwards. I don't know but some of the scenes don't make it quite clear whether shirou is taking the war seriously or not. And even though Shirou seems relaxed, he has luck while Tokiomi obviously did not. Edit: Typo There's a difference between being completely calm under pressure(Shirou) and being completely oblivious of your surroundings(Tokiomi). As shown in Ep 8 Shirou can stand in room/school full of dying/dead bodies and not give a fuck, yet still rationally lay out plans and make decisions. With RIn incident, he did not took her seriously(but did not underestimate) and evaded most of her attacks till she dropped gem in the room. Then he took her seriously but they got interrupted. Then he took time to clear up what Rin wants to do giving her an option to continue. |
Dec 11, 2014 4:50 AM
#168
Z4k said: Isnt you the one that ignore stuff?HentaiPriest said: Z4k said: notJune said: The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu". Very smart anime. That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long. But isn't shirou relaxed too? Rin attacked him in the school and could have almost killed him yet he seemed ok with it afterwards. I don't know but some of the scenes don't make it quite clear whether shirou is taking the war seriously or not. And even though Shirou seems relaxed, he has luck while Tokiomi obviously did not. Edit: Typo Wasnt Shirou the one that wanted to resume the fight after Rider left?Isnt Shirou the one that asked Saber to train him?And how is he relaxed when he was working with her later into stopping Rider? Tokiomi ignored things, was too relaxed even tho he knew EXACTLY what the war is,didn't effectively use Gil and he accomplished nothing. You confuse luck with effectively using what is given to you(not counting Avalon). Oh please tell me the tons of good planning FZ chars did and the tons of dumb things FSN chars did. How about you make some lists as well? |
Dec 11, 2014 4:52 AM
#169
Z4k said: HentaiPriest said: Z4k said: notJune said: The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu". Very smart anime. That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long. But isn't shirou relaxed too? Rin attacked him in the school and could have almost killed him yet he seemed ok with it afterwards. I don't know but some of the scenes don't make it quite clear whether shirou is taking the war seriously or not. And even though Shirou seems relaxed, he has luck while Tokiomi obviously did not. Edit: Typo I suppose you could say Shirou is relaxed. I think a better description would be... slower to come to the reality of the situation? Tokiomi was relaxed. He knew exactly what the Grail War was, had his plan, and was very confident in it. Shirou knew nothing about the Grail War, had a bunch of info dumped all over himself, decided he was gonna go through with it, but it didn't seem to sink in, for lack of a better term. It is one thing to hear it, another thing to live it. I think you can see that Shirou has started to accept the reality of the situation. He'll let Saber guard him closer at night, he is training himself for combat, and he seems more ready to strategize with Rin and strike rather than wait and see now. |
Dec 11, 2014 5:22 AM
#170
Kaioshin_Sama said: This thread kind of exemplifies why the whole Fate thing is kind of nauseating to me at least when it comes to the fanbase which is a shame cause the shows are fairly decent stuff for Visual Novel adaptation fare which I'm so very much not normally into. You wouldn't know it was supposed to be enjoyable or interesting though talking to the fanbase. Seriously why do you always ignore the trolls and haters and always go after the fanbase? This isn't KyoAni or Monogatari fanbase you know............just to clarify. Besides you don't have much idea how much insult, hate, BS some VN fans had to see after that retarded fan fic called DEENFSN. You probably missed the fact that the newbies or viewers genuinely interested are always supported......the same way you missed the fact this was a bait thread by a non-VN guy to spark some fires. |
Dec 11, 2014 5:29 AM
#171
"I have 80+ of these servants specialized in killing masters, I think I'll have them all mob the most powerful servants in the war." Such strategy. |
Dec 11, 2014 5:31 AM
#172
ANGRY2011 said: Z4k said: HentaiPriest said: Z4k said: It was the only good plan.What followed after that was a disaster.He was too relaxed.notJune said: The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu". Very smart anime. That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long. But isn't shirou relaxed too? Rin attacked him in the school and could have almost killed him yet he seemed ok with it afterwards. I don't know but some of the scenes don't make it quite clear whether shirou is taking the war seriously or not. And even though Shirou seems relaxed, he has luck while Tokiomi obviously did not. Edit: Typo I suppose you could say Shirou is relaxed. I think a better description would be... slower to come to the reality of the situation? Tokiomi was relaxed. He knew exactly what the Grail War was, had his plan, and was very confident in it. Shirou knew nothing about the Grail War, had a bunch of info dumped all over himself, decided he was gonna go through with it, but it didn't seem to sink in, for lack of a better term. It is one thing to hear it, another thing to live it. I think you can see that Shirou has started to accept the reality of the situation. He'll let Saber guard him closer at night, he is training himself for combat, and he seems more ready to strategize with Rin and strike rather than wait and see now. He accepted reality of situation as early as Ep3. Lack of knowledge =/= lack of acceptance. And we all know that having trouble with people protecting him has nothing to do with these things. |
Dec 11, 2014 5:38 AM
#173
CookingPriest said: ANGRY2011 said: Z4k said: HentaiPriest said: Z4k said: It was the only good plan.What followed after that was a disaster.He was too relaxed.notJune said: The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu". Very smart anime. That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long. But isn't shirou relaxed too? Rin attacked him in the school and could have almost killed him yet he seemed ok with it afterwards. I don't know but some of the scenes don't make it quite clear whether shirou is taking the war seriously or not. And even though Shirou seems relaxed, he has luck while Tokiomi obviously did not. Edit: Typo I suppose you could say Shirou is relaxed. I think a better description would be... slower to come to the reality of the situation? Tokiomi was relaxed. He knew exactly what the Grail War was, had his plan, and was very confident in it. Shirou knew nothing about the Grail War, had a bunch of info dumped all over himself, decided he was gonna go through with it, but it didn't seem to sink in, for lack of a better term. It is one thing to hear it, another thing to live it. I think you can see that Shirou has started to accept the reality of the situation. He'll let Saber guard him closer at night, he is training himself for combat, and he seems more ready to strategize with Rin and strike rather than wait and see now. He accepted reality of situation as early as Ep3. Lack of knowledge =/= lack of acceptance. And we all know that having trouble with people protecting him has nothing to do with these things. He said he did. I think he partially did. I think he honestly believed he had. I'm not faulting him, you know. He knew nothing about the Grail War. The concept had to be pretty outlandish to him. But I don't think he really was fully able to accept it until Rin confronted him at school and he was kidnapped by Caster. Not because he wasn't willing, or because he didn't want to, but just because these confrontations forced a different understanding. School isn't safe. Neither is sleeping at home. As for him having trouble with people protecting him, yea I know. I think you're misinterpreting what I said. Letting Saber guard him closer at night is definitely a sign that he's serious, that he gets it, and that he accepts it. Even more so because he has trouble with people protecting him. |
Dec 11, 2014 6:43 AM
#174
HentaiPriest said: Isnt you the one that ignore stuff? Wasnt Shirou the one that wanted to resume the fight after Rider left?Isnt Shirou the one that asked Saber to train him?And how is he relaxed when he was working with her later into stopping Rider? I'm not ignoring those scenes. True he did want to resume the fight with Rider but some scenes negates his good points like the one where Caster easily captured Shirou. It made him look really stupid because how could someone be so careless enough to let an enemy servant snatch you out of your own base? That wouldn't have happened if he were more serious about this war and had taken more precautions. See here I'm not ignoring his efforts because I know he's done good things like the last two episodes but until now its his abnormally good luck that kept him alive most of the times. |
Z4KDec 11, 2014 6:48 AM
Dec 11, 2014 6:47 AM
#175
Clearly I've committed a Type-moon forum version of a faux pas again and remain unaware of it once again :P I'm not sure how my (assumed) innocent question, which some members here have answered sufficiently well in a manner I expected, turned into some sort of S-level bait, but I guess I'll never know given the amount of prior knowledge is required to follow conversation in this forum ^o^ So again, if someone could fill in the blanks, that'd be much appreciated. Trust me though :P It was an authentic question. You may assume I never read the VN if you like, as I explained earlier on; I still enjoy hearing this community's opinions about what to expect :D. |
Dec 11, 2014 6:52 AM
#176
Z4k said: HentaiPriest said: Isnt you the one that ignore stuff? Wasnt Shirou the one that wanted to resume the fight after Rider left?Isnt Shirou the one that asked Saber to train him?And how is he relaxed when he was working with her later into stopping Rider? I'm not ignoring those scenes. True he did want to resume the fight with Rider but some scenes negates his good points like the one where Caster easily captured Shirou. It made him look really stupid because how could someone be so careless enough to let an enemy servant snatch you out of your own base? That wouldn't have happened if he were more serious about this war and had taken more precautions. See here I'm not ignoring his efforts because I know he's done good things like the last two episodes but until now its his abnormally good luck that kept him alive most of the times. How has his luck kept him alive? Vs Lancer he actually planned his moves thought on his feet. Vs Rider he tried to stay out of her vision and against a tree and even dodged/parried some of her attacks. Being saved by Archer vs Caster was most likely Archer keeping an eye on things. Vs Tohsaka he dodges attacks and uses the desk to stop her barrage. |
Dec 11, 2014 7:01 AM
#177
Z4k said: Well now you are ignoring that he's a novice mage. He can't defend against that, he already has a field around his house but Caster is too OP.Caster easily captured Shirou. It made him look really stupid because how could someone be so careless enough to let an enemy servant snatch you out of your own base? That wouldn't have happened if he were more serious about this war and had taken more precautions. In Fate route this doesn't happen because Rin forms an alliance with him right after the Berserker stuff and moves to his house, which is a perfectly fine decision since Archer is out of commission (thanks to Saber going off into battle without explaining shit to her Master) and Rin is without protection from other Servants and at the same time she can enhance the field around Emiya's house so Caster can't get to them. Oh and before you bring up Shinji Yes he is not even a mage so taking him would be even easier than Shirou. But He's not really a master and Sakura is too OP |
BotatoDec 11, 2014 7:05 AM
Dec 11, 2014 7:18 AM
#178
nocorras said: Z4k said: HentaiPriest said: Isnt you the one that ignore stuff? Wasnt Shirou the one that wanted to resume the fight after Rider left?Isnt Shirou the one that asked Saber to train him?And how is he relaxed when he was working with her later into stopping Rider? I'm not ignoring those scenes. True he did want to resume the fight with Rider but some scenes negates his good points like the one where Caster easily captured Shirou. It made him look really stupid because how could someone be so careless enough to let an enemy servant snatch you out of your own base? That wouldn't have happened if he were more serious about this war and had taken more precautions. See here I'm not ignoring his efforts because I know he's done good things like the last two episodes but until now its his abnormally good luck that kept him alive most of the times. How has his luck kept him alive? Vs Lancer he actually planned his moves thought on his feet. Vs Rider he tried to stay out of her vision and against a tree and even dodged/parried some of her attacks. Being saved by Archer vs Caster was most likely Archer keeping an eye on things. Vs Tohsaka he dodges attacks and uses the desk to stop her barrage. The fact that he has Avalon inside of him which helped him regenerate after the fight with Berserker. I believe it works whenever he's near Saber (Correct me if I'm wrong here). My memory is hazy but its weird how he doesn't even find that surprising how his injuries healed quick. And if it weren't because of Assassin letting Archer pass in the Caster vs Archer, Shirou would've already been dead. Funny how situations conveniently favors him most of the time. |
Dec 11, 2014 7:30 AM
#179
I thin the overall plot/characters of the 2 anime are different enough to say even if you didn't like one that much, it would be highly possible you could end up still loving the other one. |
Dec 11, 2014 7:32 AM
#180
Z4k said: Which is no different from most of what happened in F/Z.nocorras said: Z4k said: HentaiPriest said: Isnt you the one that ignore stuff? Wasnt Shirou the one that wanted to resume the fight after Rider left?Isnt Shirou the one that asked Saber to train him?And how is he relaxed when he was working with her later into stopping Rider? I'm not ignoring those scenes. True he did want to resume the fight with Rider but some scenes negates his good points like the one where Caster easily captured Shirou. It made him look really stupid because how could someone be so careless enough to let an enemy servant snatch you out of your own base? That wouldn't have happened if he were more serious about this war and had taken more precautions. See here I'm not ignoring his efforts because I know he's done good things like the last two episodes but until now its his abnormally good luck that kept him alive most of the times. How has his luck kept him alive? Vs Lancer he actually planned his moves thought on his feet. Vs Rider he tried to stay out of her vision and against a tree and even dodged/parried some of her attacks. Being saved by Archer vs Caster was most likely Archer keeping an eye on things. Vs Tohsaka he dodges attacks and uses the desk to stop her barrage. The fact that he has Avalon inside of him which helped him regenerate after the fight with Berserker. I believe it works whenever he's near Saber (Correct me if I'm wrong here). My memory is hazy but its weird how he doesn't even find that surprising how his injuries healed quick. And if it weren't because of Assassin letting Archer pass in the Caster vs Archer, Shirou would've already been dead. Funny how situations conveniently favors him most of the time. Edit: And he's aware of it, he did find it surprising but from his point of view Rin's explanation makes sense. |
Dec 11, 2014 8:38 AM
#181
Z4k said: So you are ignoring how OP Caster is, the one that tricked the Holy Grail system and summoned anocorras said: Z4k said: HentaiPriest said: Isnt you the one that ignore stuff? Wasnt Shirou the one that wanted to resume the fight after Rider left?Isnt Shirou the one that asked Saber to train him?And how is he relaxed when he was working with her later into stopping Rider? I'm not ignoring those scenes. True he did want to resume the fight with Rider but some scenes negates his good points like the one where Caster easily captured Shirou. It made him look really stupid because how could someone be so careless enough to let an enemy servant snatch you out of your own base? That wouldn't have happened if he were more serious about this war and had taken more precautions. See here I'm not ignoring his efforts because I know he's done good things like the last two episodes but until now its his abnormally good luck that kept him alive most of the times. How has his luck kept him alive? Vs Lancer he actually planned his moves thought on his feet. Vs Rider he tried to stay out of her vision and against a tree and even dodged/parried some of her attacks. Being saved by Archer vs Caster was most likely Archer keeping an eye on things. Vs Tohsaka he dodges attacks and uses the desk to stop her barrage. The fact that he has Avalon inside of him which helped him regenerate after the fight with Berserker. I believe it works whenever he's near Saber (Correct me if I'm wrong here). My memory is hazy but its weird how he doesn't even find that surprising how his injuries healed quick. And if it weren't because of Assassin letting Archer pass in the Caster vs Archer, Shirou would've already been dead. Funny how situations conveniently favors him most of the time. a Hero that isnt the default Assassin,can teleport,and as shown is light years ahead of magi like Ilya and Rin.Ok. .. Shirou doesnt know about Avalon,Rin doesnt know about Avalon and Saber doesnt know about Avalon.So yeah Rin's explanation works for him. There is nothing here that planning could solve especially when he cant make something like a field by himself. Sometimes thinking about what you watch helps. |
ssjokgDec 11, 2014 8:44 AM
Dec 11, 2014 8:46 AM
#182
Sorry I'm new here but how does caster can summon a fake assassin (I've read this VN 3 years ago but seem to forget that past)? |
Dec 11, 2014 8:48 AM
#183
You can blame the adaptation being hellbent on "implying" things than showing the, but there's absolutely nothing anyone human could do against this Caster. As Archer states, she "mimicks True Magic". The explanation that was cut from Ep0 explains that magecraft(majutsu), that most magi(majutsushi), including Shirou and Rin, use is basically science - alchemy if you want. It is essentially conversion of energy(either form inside or outside) for various purposes. "True Magic"(Mahou) is something no magus can wield and is essentially reality warping only currently available to five people in entire world who have the right to be called Magicians/Mages(Mahou Tsukai).It defies any rule, warps time and space, ignores physic and logic, etc. First Magic defies logic by making anything out of nothing, Second Magic bends dimensions, Third fucks up souls, Fourth is unknown and hides itself, and Fifth defies law of conservation, as well as time. Out of five known Mahou Tsukai, only two are known and active, the master of second magic, Kaleidoscope, Wizard Marshall Zelretch, who is the current head of Magi Association and the master of fifth magic, Blue, Aoko Aozaki, one of Magi Asociation's heavy-hitters. However True Magicians usually just keep to themselves and do not involve themselves in generic squabbles in the world. Shirou did have a boundary field established around his house(The bells you see when Lancer crosses inside) that alerts him to any and all intruders. As simple as it is, that should cover most of magical stuff. However, since Caster mimicking something on level of True Magic, that means that pretty much no magus in the world could prepare or defend against her.Any protection or alarm system is useless. Because there are literally only maybe 5 people in entire present time world who could be able to do ANYTHING against this Caster. Rin, Illya, Shirou - does not matter - any of them would have been caught this way no matter preparations. Cater simply went after the weakest, and after Saber's master(since as she said she needs Saber) The only way to deal with her is close range combat(hence why Saber, Lancer and Archer classes that are known for high magical resistance, would be super effective). The moment you try to fight against her magic with magic, you lose. |
AhenshihaelDec 11, 2014 9:05 AM
Dec 11, 2014 8:48 AM
#184
hoanggiangvt94 said: Sorry I'm new here but how does caster can summon a fake assassin (I've read this VN 3 years ago but seem to forget that past)? In short she found out how the system works and then gave zero fucks about it because a modern magic system is child's play for her. |
Dec 11, 2014 8:51 AM
#185
CookingPriest said: Future bullet dodged :)The moment you try to fight against her magic with magic, you lose. |
Dec 11, 2014 9:21 AM
#186
HentaiPriest said: hoanggiangvt94 said: Sorry I'm new here but how does caster can summon a fake assassin (I've read this VN 3 years ago but seem to forget that past)? In short she found out how the system works and then gave zero fucks about it because a modern magic system is child's play for her. Thanks, now to think about it, the VN mentioned the different about old and new magic in the prologue. |
Dec 11, 2014 9:32 AM
#187
Carnival Phantasm > F/Z +F/SN /thread /s |
Dec 11, 2014 10:23 AM
#188
Shrimperor said: Stop making sense.Carnival Phantasm > F/Z +F/SN /thread /s |
Dec 11, 2014 11:08 AM
#189
I really wanted to watch to watch F/0 after F/SN since I'm really enjoying it so far but judging from the first pages this thread, it seems like it just "tries too hard " to be mature. Hmmm. |
Dec 11, 2014 11:09 AM
#190
Agafin said: I really wanted to watch to watch F/0 after F/SN since I'm really enjoying it so far but judging from the first pages this thread, it seems like it just "tries too hard " to be mature. Hmmm. It's not really all about trying too hard it's just FSN fans get tired of people equating 'dark' to maturity and automatically think FSN is immature. F/Zero is best watched after reading/watching the Heaven's Feel route of FSN to get the most out of Zero imo. Basically this guys explanation sums it up: "Now, think of The Witcher (those of you, who played). In civilised countries it was released with the inclusion of nudity and sexual themes, in the post-reformation, puritan world, it was stripped of 'fleshy bits'. Now, what's the difference between these two? Is the uncensored edition more mature? Nope. The maturity of the game comes with the story. With the difficult moral choices that the player has to make and then face (sometimes tragic for other characters) the consequences. That's maturity. So the censored edition was still just as mature, just not as enjoyable and less life-like. " Fate/Zero has killing/violence/gore. FSN is mature in the fact that it explores Shirou's ideals and what happens to him and those around him. |
nocorrasDec 11, 2014 11:15 AM
Dec 11, 2014 11:11 AM
#191
Agafin said: You mean FZ?I really wanted to watch to watch F/0 after F/SN since I'm really enjoying it so far but judging from the first pages this thread, it seems like it just "tries too hard " to be mature. Hmmm. It IS mature. The problem is that people confuse its themes with the gore.FSN is as mature as Zero is in its themes and it has gore when it has to.The problem is that some people see a show as mature only if it has adults, much gore and every char ready to kill at any moment. |
Dec 11, 2014 11:18 AM
#192
nocorras said: Agafin said: I really wanted to watch to watch F/0 after F/SN since I'm really enjoying it so far but judging from the first pages this thread, it seems like it just "tries too hard " to be mature. Hmmm. It's not really all about trying too hard it's just FSN fans get tired of people equating 'dark' to maturity and automatically think FSN is immature. F/Zero is best watched after reading/watching the Heaven's Feel route of FSN to get the most out of Zero imo. Basically this guys explanation sums it up: "Now, think of The Witcher (those of you, who played). In civilised countries it was released with the inclusion of nudity and sexual themes, in the post-reformation, puritan world, it was stripped of 'fleshy bits'. Now, what's the difference between these two? Is the uncensored edition more mature? Nope. The maturity of the game comes with the story. With the difficult moral choices that the player has to make and then face (sometimes tragic for other characters) the consequences. That's maturity. So the censored edition was still just as mature, just not as enjoyable and less life-like. " Fate/Zero has killing/violence/gore. FSN is mature in the fact that it explores Shirou's ideals and what happens to him and those around him. OK, I see thanks. But what you said here isn't the same thing I've read in the first pages though. |
Dec 11, 2014 11:20 AM
#193
Fate/Zero is great and it is mature. However, Fate/Stay Night is just as mature if not more so and in my opinion, better. It just so happens that shitting on F/Z is common among more.....zealous F/SN fans. |
Dec 11, 2014 11:27 AM
#194
InsertPriestHere said: Fate/Zero is great and it is mature. However, Fate/Stay Night is just as mature if not more so and in my opinion, better. It just so happens that shitting on F/Z is common among more.....zealous F/SN fans. Actually that was just describing the ridiculous thought process of some F/Z-watchers and not actually describing F/Z. I personally think F/Z by itself is at least better than 1 of the VN routes of F/sn. |
Dec 11, 2014 11:33 AM
#195
Agafin said: Dont worry.nocorras said: Agafin said: I really wanted to watch to watch F/0 after F/SN since I'm really enjoying it so far but judging from the first pages this thread, it seems like it just "tries too hard " to be mature. Hmmm. It's not really all about trying too hard it's just FSN fans get tired of people equating 'dark' to maturity and automatically think FSN is immature. F/Zero is best watched after reading/watching the Heaven's Feel route of FSN to get the most out of Zero imo. Basically this guys explanation sums it up: "Now, think of The Witcher (those of you, who played). In civilised countries it was released with the inclusion of nudity and sexual themes, in the post-reformation, puritan world, it was stripped of 'fleshy bits'. Now, what's the difference between these two? Is the uncensored edition more mature? Nope. The maturity of the game comes with the story. With the difficult moral choices that the player has to make and then face (sometimes tragic for other characters) the consequences. That's maturity. So the censored edition was still just as mature, just not as enjoyable and less life-like. " Fate/Zero has killing/violence/gore. FSN is mature in the fact that it explores Shirou's ideals and what happens to him and those around him. OK, I see thanks. But what you said here isn't the same thing I've read in the first pages though. It is fans making fans of people that judge FSN for "not being like FZ" or fans who for some reason decided that it is ok to make FZ look bad in order to make FSN look better when they dont have to do that. If you find people that havent read FSN and say that they understood FZ, dont trust them.FZ is written with the idea that the reader has already read FSN.It is like a greek tragedy, you read it so that you know how they reached the end, see the irony, and how it shaped any surviving characters. It isnt about the war or the grail,the gore or the fights. |
Dec 11, 2014 11:35 AM
#196
Grey-Zone said: . I personally think F/Z by itself is at least better than 1 of the VN routes of F/sn. *Somewhere* -Codename FAI prepare to strike- I agree but FSN isnt just one route. |
Dec 11, 2014 11:39 AM
#197
BotatoPriest said: Shrimperor said: Stop making sense.Carnival Phantasm > F/Z +F/SN /thread /s Sorry, again. I just can't stop making sense in Type-moon threads. Teach me, Mastah! |
Dec 11, 2014 11:40 AM
#198
Fate/Zero and Fate/stay night are like two different Anime. The atmosphere is completely different, and F/Z is much deeper and better thought-out. So yeah, F/Z is definitely superior. F/SN is just ranked higher so far because of the hype. Once it's done, it's going to be around ~#40-60. I'd say, give F/Z a go. |
Dec 11, 2014 11:41 AM
#199
Man, this thread becomes a war. LOL. Better take neutral side. Can't say anything, I haven't read the VN and Fate UBW is not even reaching its 1st half yet. Must see all episodes to give proper opinions to compare the characters and story. But the sure thing for me is : -F/Z is superior than F/SN Deen's adaptation -F/SN UBW battle scenes > F/Z (see the battles in those two series, ufotable has upgraded the animation of battle scenes of F/SN UBW) so if u guys are looking for action, F/SN UBW may provide u better entertainment. -The obvious difference is, the point of view. In F/Z, we got third person point of view, where we got to see all of the characters and what's going on. In F/SN, we got first person point of view, which is our MC, Shirou (this could be bad if u don't like him as a character). |
Dec 11, 2014 11:45 AM
#200
Kirua- said: Fate/Zero and Fate/stay night are like two different Anime. The atmosphere is completely different, and F/Z is much deeper and better thought-out. You can't decide that until you've seen the full story of F/SN. And having read the source material for both, I'll have to disagree. |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 3 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Oct 25, 2014 |
1045 |
by DGottem
»»
Sep 9, 2:34 AM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Oct 11, 2014 |
1266 |
by bananachips
»»
Sep 3, 8:30 PM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 8 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Hyack - Nov 29, 2014 |
767 |
by awasalahif
»»
Aug 29, 11:02 PM |
|
» Fate Watch Guide I Made For My WebsiteKaptainKoolaid - Aug 22 |
4 |
by AustinJamB
»»
Aug 23, 11:58 AM |
|
» Finding ost ep9O_OSeeKing - Aug 9 |
1 |
by TrueLataDeAtun
»»
Aug 9, 7:55 AM |