| This is funny, but that's anime for you. Clannad was pretty good overall, despite its flaws, I think it's overall a decent show. Good characters, though sterotypical, a good protagonist in Tomoya, and a big theme of family. |
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Shinkenshi said: game8910 said: juanker said: Top 4 already! YAAAAY!!! you can thank whoever is trolling LotGH and KnK 5 to death or maybe it's because logh isn't really such a masterpiece either? for me it was good the same way doraemon was good when i saw it as a kid; i'm not sure when it turned from a childhood classic into the best anime ever produced, over a decade after it finished airing. looking at such a low populous for user ratingso it shouldn't be surprising that the average deviates significantly; both series has under 10,000 ratings. not that it matters; mal ratings are mostly popularity based anyways Shinkenshi said: it's not like those 44 votes appeared overnight, i call bullshit on that claim an even larger anomaly is the 52% vote of 10s. i remember taking a look of the voting distributions of the top anime a while back, and logh had 55% of the votes being 10s, the highest of any anime in mal database by almost 10% (back then there was only around 20 1s so maybe there is indeed foul play involved) @Kaiserpingvin: whatever, you can make a similarly constructed rhetorical paragraph about any anime you have seen. i bet there are people out there who wrote about how pokemon is the best anime ever and genuinely believe in what they wrote. regardless, it still doesn't answer my question: since when did logh turn from a childhood classic to the best anime ever? LOGH is well presented and have a logical plot. Your argument, however, is not. Shinkenshi said: Kaiserpingvin said: Shinkenshi said: @Kaiserpingvin: whatever, you can make a similarly constructed rhetorical paragraph about any anime you have seen. Yes, but in those cases I'd be lying. Read the sentence right after the one you quoted. Kaiserpingvin said: Really, what in LOGH is anything short of masterful artistry? An anime with epic plot in terms of scope and some well done character portrayal. Don't get me wrong, I like the anime; I just think some of the acclaims I'm seeing seems to be blown out of proportion. Kaiserpingving said: a) LOGH is pretty darn far from a "childhood classic". I have scarcely seen any more "mature" series (if one is to use those loosely defined age-demographical terms). b) Even if it were one, it would not affect quality either way, it is not like things for children are automatically worse than anything else. c) The translation only ended a short while ago (relative to it's age), and it's a long series. It takes some time for it to have any kind of impact over on the Western community. The reason it wasn't well-talked-about before was merely because not that many people over here know Nipponese. It's like asking why a certain book didn't become popular until there was a translation done. a) Despite its grandiose the themes and the plot are quite easy to follow, even for kids. If you say "Monster" is targeted towards a mature crowd, then I would agree, but I don't feel the same way with Legend of the Galactic Heroes, as it is an anime that a child can easily enjoy and appreciate. b) Point taken. My statement is used to show how I felt LOGH's status has elevated suddenly over a decade after its production, which you addressed in the next point. Also, read my original post again regarding the context of this quote. c) Even back in Japan or China I don't remember people holding LOGH in such high regards. I'm not sure if you are trying to imply that Japanese anime viewers have a lower set of standards or that you are simply unaware of its reception overseas. Kaiserpingvin said: Shinkenshi said: LOGH is well presented and have a logical plot. Your argument, however, is not. ? It was more a snark than an argument. It's mostly laughable that a show with such blatant and atrocious plot failings as AS can be considered a masterpiece, while LOGH can not. But then you gave a four to Monster, so you might just not be the type to prioritize plot, I guess. There are several things. First, well, okay, it's a quite repetitive and incoherent snark. Regarding Monster, it's not even remotely connected to LOGH or Clannad. I felt like it would have made a good TV-series but failed to effectively utilize anime well as a medium. I also had some problem with the pacing and the plot development, but I really don't see how me not liking Monster equates to me disregarding any form of plot in an anime. Finally, the Clannad vs LOGH you brought up. I feel like both are good anime. However, I feel like for each targeted audience, Clannad delivers a fresher experience. LOGH has good character development and a decent plot, and as such I labeled it, "a well done space-opera." It's basically _insertnamehere_, done better. Clannad is one of the first harem series to involve familial relationship and really post some positive messages. It's the first time I've read anything and thought about the motives behind why my mom did x or why my dad did y instead of just dismissing their actions as another obstacle towards my liberation and freedom. The anime adaptation obviously had some transitional issues, but at the same time I feel like it also portrayed what I mentioned above very well. That last aside seems to be a borderline troll; how 2 posts and a single rating helped you conclude that I disregard plot is beyond me. In any case, this is about 2 miles away from thread direction. Yes, people perceive Clannad as overrated, just like any other anime that's present in a Top Anime list like this one. The trolling must stop indeed. But this is a very interesting argument, I want to see what other LOGH haters in particular have to say about this. This is an epic battle of wits between two very intelligent posters. |
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Shinkenshi said: Enjoy and appreciate, but most likely completely miss the majority of the deeper layers and complexities of the story, perhaps. It's not like Star Wars with a stable, linear and predictable story, LotGH serves countless twists and turns and sports a story that evolves and features dozens and more of parallel schemes and themes.a) Despite its grandiose the themes and the plot are quite easy to follow, even for kids. If you say "Monster" is targeted towards a mature crowd, then I would agree, but I don't feel the same way with Legend of the Galactic Heroes, as it is an anime that a child can easily enjoy and appreciate. I would be very interested to meet a child that could appreciate such a story for all it's worth. As for Clannad AS, yes, overrated would be my answer there. While it did lack most of the comedy that made the first series enjoyable, it dabbled a bit too much in melodrama to my tastes, but seemed to mend it when it changed it's approach and took on a path of tragic realism. Sadly though, it ruined it all as far as I am concerned when it pulled some ridiculous plot twists full of magic and hogwash in order to shatter any tragedy and realism it had and deliver a standard shallow happy ending. |
Baman said: Shinkenshi said: Enjoy and appreciate, but most likely completely miss the majority of the deeper layers and complexities of the story, perhaps. It's not like Star Wars with a stable, linear and predictable story, LotGH serves countless twists and turns and sports a story that evolves and features dozens and more of parallel schemes and themes.a) Despite its grandiose the themes and the plot are quite easy to follow, even for kids. If you say "Monster" is targeted towards a mature crowd, then I would agree, but I don't feel the same way with Legend of the Galactic Heroes, as it is an anime that a child can easily enjoy and appreciate. I would be very interested to meet a child that could appreciate such a story for all it's worth. As for Clannad AS, yes, overrated would be my answer there. While it did lack most of the comedy that made the first series enjoyable, it dabbled a bit too much in melodrama to my tastes, but seemed to mend it when it changed it's approach and took on a path of tragic realism. Sadly though, it ruined it all as far as I am concerned when it pulled some ridiculous plot twists full of magic and hogwash in order to shatter any tragedy and realism it had and deliver a standard shallow happy ending. Well, from the first few episodes, anyone could be excused for thinking this is a very slow starting anime. At least in Code Geass, the plot quickly captures the audience attention by the first episode. To me, LOGH was a simple space opera with much like Terra E, but on a larger scale, and more realistic overall, but I believe the plot should be simple enough that even a child can understand this thinking man's anime. Clannad might be overrated in a sense, but this is also the case with every single top 10 anime. There will be always some anime which people think will be more deserving of the top 10, no? |
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jahrakal2009 said: Understand it how? Anyone should be able to understand anything if it is broken down to it's most basic parts, which in LotGH would be some basic concepts of war, history and mankind's belligerent nature, but then you would, like I said, still be missing out on much of it. children would have a lesser understanding of the more complex schemes and moral and political issues, and most likely would not have the attention span to digest all the themes and tracks at once.To me, LOGH was a simple space opera with much like Terra E, but on a larger scale, and more realistic overall, but I believe the plot should be simple enough that even a child can understand this thinking man's anime. Understanding the basic gist of something is easy enough, one could make a short synopsis in a couple of paragraphs, but that's not really understanding is it? |
| That's an over generalization. If Kaiserpingvin said that children can understand and enjoy Iliad and Odyssey, they sure as hell can comprehend LOGH. Speaking for myself, I was able to play with the cube Tetris and Legos hours at a time before I started kindergarten. Regardless, understanding is very abstract at best. Do you claim to have a good understanding of the anime? How is it compared to my understanding? Do you compare the facts, or the different layers of subjective interpretations on the subject matter? If you read my comment you quoted, you will see that I said that the anime is quite easy to follow. One might not grasp the politics and the motives in their entirety, but it very rarely distracts from the viewing experience. Juuni Kokki is another example of such an anime. Monster is not. I think almost everyone will agree that between LOGH and Monster, every child will pick LOGH. I have no question in my mind that it was a great anime when it first aired. However, as I revisited some of the episodes on random occasions, I cannot but feel like that age has taken its toll on this anime. Concepts do not seem as original. Plot twists seem more predictable. Characters do not seem as memorable. However, considering how this anime has recently been translated for the vast majority of the viewers in the west, I don't feel out of place comparing it to more recent anime. I don't feel like my "very good space odyssey" comment, nor most of my critique, as being out of place, but to each his own. |
| clearly this suffers from the "sequel filter" effect. Since everyone who thought Clannad sucked back on season 1 probably wont even watch this new season, it only natural that sequels that perform close or as good as the first season will get a higher rating since the voters will consist mostly of the people who liked the show since the beginning, and it will not have as much negative reactions. The proof is all over MAL, with shows like Code Geass, Aria, Haruhi, Kara no Kyoukai, Higurashi, Honey and Clover, Vampire Knight, hell even damn Junjou Romantica (yaoi eww lol) >_< If you see a sequel rated lower than the first season chances are that it underperformed in the eyes of those who liked it the first time around. I would bet you that if other high ranked animes where to get sequels, and they kept the same level of quality, they would end up rated way higher than their first seasons, you can kind of see it already with some currently airing shows like Hajime no Ippo: New Challenger, rated 8.85 and it hasnt finished airing. Once it does I can guarantee that it will take a spot on the top 5 are will most likely pass the score of the first season (8.92). I wonder what kind of scores sequels for shows like Baccano, Kanon 2006, NANA, GTO, etc would get |
Remus_Lupa said: Every anime that makes as many people cry as Clannad ~AS~ deserves nothing less than a 10! I'll admit I haven't seen it. I've heard from friends and read about it a bit. How does it make people cry? It's just people dying like a lot of anime does and nobody cries then. |
Drunk_Samurai said: Remus_Lupa said: Every anime that makes as many people cry as Clannad ~AS~ deserves nothing less than a 10! I'll admit I haven't seen it. I've heard from friends and read about it a bit. How does it make people cry? It's just people dying like a lot of anime does and nobody cries then. This anime actually had me in tears. And I've never shed tears for anything fiction before. It is very powerful. But its sorry excuse for an ending and weak first 8 or so episodes make AS not as good as people brand it as. |
| Top 3 now XD Way to go clannad |
sunshinesan said: Drunk_Samurai said: Remus_Lupa said: Every anime that makes as many people cry as Clannad ~AS~ deserves nothing less than a 10! I'll admit I haven't seen it. I've heard from friends and read about it a bit. How does it make people cry? It's just people dying like a lot of anime does and nobody cries then. This anime actually had me in tears. And I've never shed tears for anything fiction before. It is very powerful. But its sorry excuse for an ending and weak first 8 or so episodes make AS not as good as people brand it as. exactly...it WAS sad, but the other Key animes before Clannad like Kanon were just as sad if not even sadder. I also think its because Clannad attack people on the easiest cry trigger everyone has, family. I mean....having family die makes people cry unless ur an evil bastard....a cheap tactic, but effective >_> |
sunshinesan said: Its not like the rating is a fact, its to do with people's opinion. Why complain about something thats not gonna change.Drunk_Samurai said: Remus_Lupa said: Every anime that makes as many people cry as Clannad ~AS~ deserves nothing less than a 10! I'll admit I haven't seen it. I've heard from friends and read about it a bit. How does it make people cry? It's just people dying like a lot of anime does and nobody cries then. This anime actually had me in tears. And I've never shed tears for anything fiction before. It is very powerful. But its sorry excuse for an ending and weak first 8 or so episodes make AS not as good as people brand it as. |
game8910 said: sunshinesan said: Drunk_Samurai said: Remus_Lupa said: Every anime that makes as many people cry as Clannad ~AS~ deserves nothing less than a 10! I'll admit I haven't seen it. I've heard from friends and read about it a bit. How does it make people cry? It's just people dying like a lot of anime does and nobody cries then. This anime actually had me in tears. And I've never shed tears for anything fiction before. It is very powerful. But its sorry excuse for an ending and weak first 8 or so episodes make AS not as good as people brand it as. exactly...it WAS sad, but the other Key animes before Clannad like Kanon were just as sad if not even sadder. I also think its because Clannad attack people on the easiest cry trigger everyone has, family. I mean....having family die makes people cry unless ur an evil bastard....a cheap tactic, but effective >_> What? They are characters from a fictional anime. How is somebody an evil bastard if they don't cry? |
| wow this topic is still alive? and Clannad AS is now 8.97?!?! 0.o Why is LotGH so highly rated? I should watch it =.= |
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sunshinesan said: +1. Except add more rage at the ending.This anime actually had me in tears. And I've never shed tears for anything fiction before. It is very powerful. But its sorry excuse for an ending and weak first 8 or so episodes make AS not as good as people brand it as. kaminakun said: Because it's the greatest anime of all time... and possibly because everyone who finishes it loves it, and everyone who hates it drops it before their vote counts.Why is LotGH so highly rated? I should watch it =.= But yes. Watch it. |
naikou said: kaminakun said: Because it's the greatest anime of all time... and possibly because everyone who finishes it loves it, and everyone who hates it drops it before their vote counts.Why is LotGH so highly rated? I should watch it =.= But yes. Watch it. It should be crime NOT to watch it. |
Shinkenshi said: That's an over generalization. If Kaiserpingvin said that children can understand and enjoy Iliad and Odyssey, they sure as hell can comprehend LOGH. Speaking for myself, I was able to play with the cube Tetris and Legos hours at a time before I started kindergarten. Regardless, understanding is very abstract at best. Do you claim to have a good understanding of the anime? How is it compared to my understanding? Do you compare the facts, or the different layers of subjective interpretations on the subject matter? If you read my comment you quoted, you will see that I said that the anime is quite easy to follow. One might not grasp the politics and the motives in their entirety, but it very rarely distracts from the viewing experience. Juuni Kokki is another example of such an anime. Monster is not. I think almost everyone will agree that between LOGH and Monster, every child will pick LOGH. I have no question in my mind that it was a great anime when it first aired. However, as I revisited some of the episodes on random occasions, I cannot but feel like that age has taken its toll on this anime. Concepts do not seem as original. Plot twists seem more predictable. Characters do not seem as memorable. However, considering how this anime has recently been translated for the vast majority of the viewers in the west, I don't feel out of place comparing it to more recent anime. I don't feel like my "very good space odyssey" comment, nor most of my critique, as being out of place, but to each his own. I think your critique of this series is perhaps what some of us feel. As great a series as LOGH is, there just is too much discrepencies when actually taking this anime as the best series of all time. Age is certainly a crucial factor as to wy this anime might well be not as good as it is set out to be. Also, I find the dialogue in this anime overly desperate in trying to portray political intrigue and intelligence. It's a case of trying to hard and frantically to impress. Baman said: Understand it how? Anyone should be able to understand anything if it is broken down to it's most basic parts, which in LotGH would be some basic concepts of war, history and mankind's belligerent nature, but then you would, like I said, still be missing out on much of it. children would have a lesser understanding of the more complex schemes and moral and political issues, and most likely would not have the attention span to digest all the themes and tracks at once. Understanding the basic gist of something is easy enough, one could make a short synopsis in a couple of paragraphs, but that's not really understanding is it? Understanding the basic concept and series. The conflicts, and what the series is about. A space war opera. Any anime of certain depth can be deep and insightful, if it is analysed carefully and by a competent critique/reviewer. |
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| Clannad ~AS~ is now 8.98 :o, not long to go before we throw Tengen Toppa off its high horse. |
PassingSorrow said: Clannad ~AS~ is now 8.98 :o, not long to go before we throw Tengen Toppa off its high horse. Eh, what is this a competition? In that case, TTGL >>> AS |
jahrakal2009 said: That sounds just like Code Geass. I can't see how you could attribute such a thing to LotGH.It's a case of trying to hard and frantically to impress. |
Baman said: What are you talking about, Baman?! Of course a 110 episode, slow-paced epic that was released on video tapes in Japan only over a period of 10 years was going for popularity! The fact that it showed the bad side of democracy and the good side of authoritarianism was an all-too-obvious appeal for popularity in Prussia. Oh, and then there's the fact that it decries nationalism and the very concept of nations in one of the most nationalistic states on earth. That was probably just trying to be cool and edgy to get in with the younger crowd. Or that it completely denounces religion... that's the most cliche and un-risky move I can think of!jahrakal2009 said: That sounds just like Code Geass. I can't see how you could attribute such a thing to LotGH.It's a case of trying to hard and frantically to impress. Jeeze, get your facts straight, bro. |
Baman said: jahrakal2009 said: That sounds just like Code Geass. I can't see how you could attribute such a thing to LotGH.It's a case of trying to hard and frantically to impress. Uh really now? How about the bishonen character designs of Reinhard, and the line up of LOGH... seems quite effeminate to me. Lol. Also, using such ideals as honor and ambition, trying to evoke a sense of brilliance via a battle of wits akin to the Death Note rivalry, albeit far less convincingly. Cheap ideologies, heavy and ideological language. Sure, LOGH is trying hard not to impress if you choose to believe that. |
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jahrakal2009 said: That's one bishounen and one seemingly yaoi-esque friend relationship. It's not as if they could just drop it when it was like that in the novels. honour and ambition is present yes, exaggerated in some and less so in others, but it suits the society the story is set in. The "battles of wits" are political schemes and military tactics and strategies, far more realistic and convincing than Death Note with it's ridiculously complex and unrealistic Xanatos roulettes (And as you have not seen LotGH, you can't really say much on this can you?).Uh really now? How about the bishonen character designs of Reinhard, and the line up of LOGH... seems quite effeminate to me. Lol. Also, using such ideals as honor and ambition, trying to evoke a sense of brilliance via a battle of wits akin to the Death Note rivalry, albeit far less convincingly. Cheap ideologies, heavy and ideological language. Sure, LOGH is trying hard not to impress if you choose to believe that. The ideologies are varied as the characters are, and certainly the most realistic I have encountered in anime, look only at the ideology induced idiocy in CG as a comparison, where Suzaku and Lelouch end up fighting just because of some over childish personal ideology. The language was not juvenile as it would have been in many more shallow series, but I found absolutely no heaviness about it, quite the contrary, some of the dialogues are quite masterfully written, probably taken straight from the novels. Now, I suggest you watch the entire series, and then maybe I would consider your opinion. |
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jahrakal2009 said: Baman said: jahrakal2009 said: That sounds just like Code Geass. I can't see how you could attribute such a thing to LotGH.It's a case of trying to hard and frantically to impress. Uh really now? How about the bishonen character designs of Reinhard, and the line up of LOGH... seems quite effeminate to me. Lol. Also, using such ideals as honor and ambition, trying to evoke a sense of brilliance via a battle of wits akin to the Death Note rivalry, albeit far less convincingly. Cheap ideologies, heavy and ideological language. Sure, LOGH is trying hard not to impress if you choose to believe that. You lose any credibility by comparing LOGH to Death Note. |
| I never cried to anything. Documentaries, TV shows, Animes, nothing. The best they ever got is sympathy for character dying or slightly moved by their action. For that, I am considered heartless or robot by some of my friends, and I always said "Why should you cry over a fictional character or someone you don't even know?" Clannad After Story however... I am extremely close to crying, because that's how much I was moved by that scene. (Ushio and Tomoya) After all the build ups between Tomoya and Nagisa, then another build up following it. Wow. Tomoya Okazaki felt real as a fictional character, Kyoani did a great job for making him believable as a person. Maybe because I understood Tomoya as a character. * CONTAIN SPOILER!!! DO NOT READ IF YOU NEVER FINISH! CONTAIN SPOILER!!! DO NOT READ IF YOU NEVER FINISH! CONTAIN SPOILER!!! DO NOT READ IF YOU NEVER FINISH! CONTAIN SPOILER!!! DO NOT READ IF YOU NEVER FINISH! CONTAIN SPOILER!!! DO NOT READ IF YOU NEVER FINISH! * "Sanae san said... I can only cry in the toilet... and in daddy's arms." That instantly moved me to to bits. The background music of that scene, combination of Ushio's crying, and the hug that Tomoya never was able to give as a father, the father's love that's been missing in Ushio's life... I let out a sigh after the scene to calm myself down, I really thought that this could be my very first tear shed to a show. So freaking close. Even the so-call filler arcs. Sunohara and Mei's arc, I really wanted to throw bricks at Sunohara Youhei when he walk away from Okazaki and Mei when they are *dating*. (This is also a first for a fictional story, I have never hated a single character, even the evil child killing character amused me) Not hating Sunohara no more tho ^_^ I always knew that he still loves Mei. But that scene really got me. Yukine's arc is also awesome ^_^ Although I rather them be more creative for why Okazaki is down there fighting. Yukine needed more love from the fans. Who could not like a sweet girl in the library that talks to you and make you coffee, on top of that kind and understanding. If there's really a girl like Yukine in real life, I'd definitely go for it. More also Getting into the society, living alone, the stress of everyday life, friendship in the work place, learning responsibility... Gold. With the combination of all that... We got a "MASTERPIECE" of anime. CLANNAD AFTER STORY. Overrated and Clannad after story should never be able to link to one another. I think this show, will be in my heart as the best anime ever created for a while, if not, forever. Praises to Jun Maeda of Key, and KyoAni for animating it. I simply will never be able to understand how someone can call this overrated or don't like this. I can only take it as, some people are just not into it for a reason that I don't comprehend. |
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AirStyles said: So you really don't think the ending destroyed whatever realism and tragedy the series had?I simply will never be able to understand how someone can call this overrated or don't like this. I can only take it as, some people are just not into it for a reason that I don't comprehend. I'd like it a lot if it had not been for that abhorrent happy ending that felt completely out of place. I can only see it as ripping away the whole tragic realism feel that the series built up towards the end, it didn't make any sort of sense at all, even if I look away from the silly dei ex machinis. |
| If you know how the visual novel plays out, the ending actually makes a lot of sense. They just didn't arrange the ending in the anime that well, but the idea of Tomoya finally finding happiness after all he's been through isn't THAT bad of an ending... |
| Been meaning to watch this.... |
     My pokemon bring all the boys to the yard... |
| I took them as 2 endings. I know, I was extremely upset as well because of the ending. I basically sat there in front of my computer screen, still stunned, watching the happy ending with my eyes slightly dazed off. But then, I look back to everything AS have offered. I am not ripping it a part for the second ending. Because.. I donno. I've seen a phenomenal series, and it ended when Ushio and Tomoya died. Then, the story showed us a happy ending involving the light orbs. I take the ending quite different from you I believe. In fact, every once in a while i check out the happy ending for the music and the happy life scene's. Heart warming indeed. I noticed you rated it a 4. I can assume the ending did some damage to your scores. But the ending for the 4? ¯(O.o)/¯ Nonetheless, it is still the masterpiece for me. Every single episodes, contents, and their lovable characters. those alone will already get 10 from me. Really, I don't mind the ending, I notice how alot of people hated it. Everybody hates sudden change of Sad to wtf moments in anime. I too. However, I see it as a nessasary steps. Knowing that you rated a 4... can you recommend me something? I'm kinda struggling to find a good shonnen Gengre manga, I tried History's strongest disciple kenichi and bleach, not my taste at all. Please alsto recommend me something that is as epic as clannad ^_^ P.S. I still don't understand how you could rated a four, even if you hate the ending, surely everything else would've add a bit more to your ratings, graphic work, storylines, Musics, characters etc etc. ¯\(O.o)/¯ P.S.S i kinda look up the meaning behind the happy ending, it made sense, not perfectly executed, but still. This is "still" the best anime I've ever watched. And I really believe it'll stay that way. thanks. |
AirStylesJun 14, 2009 5:03 AM
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SaberSkye said: Now, I haven't played the VN, but I'd say it would have been a better result if they had made a separate OVA for the happy end, like they do with the paths of the other girls.If you know how the visual novel plays out, the ending actually makes a lot of sense. They just didn't arrange the ending in the anime that well, but the idea of Tomoya finally finding happiness after all he's been through isn't THAT bad of an ending... AirStyles said: It wasn't just the ending, as you see, I only gave the original a score two points higher, it managed to get above average mostly because of it's good comedy elements. I don't usually tend to be easily impressed by melodrama and peripheral appeals, and these were the main elements in Clannad and AS. It's just not my kind of genre for the most part. The story really didn't present anything special as far as I am concerned, except for the tragic realism feel that I felt was ruined by the ending. As for the art, music and characters, the art style has never been my cup of tea, although it was quite good technically, much better than many other series these days. The music did not strike me as particularly memorable though, and the characters were much to archetypal to impress me.I noticed you rated it a 4. I can assume the ending did some damage to your scores. But the ending for the 4? ¯(O.o)/¯ ... P.S. I still don't understand how you could rated a four, even if you hate the ending, surely everything else would've add a bit more to your ratings, graphic work, storylines, Musics, characters etc etc. ¯(O.o)/¯ Knowing that you rated a 4... can you recommend me something? I'm kinda struggling to find a good shonnen Gengre manga, I tried History's strongest disciple kenichi and bleach, not my taste at all. Not too much in on the shounen manga myself, but both Claymore and Battle Angel Alita were really enjoyable for me, and they are classified as shounen although they didn't strike me as very typical for the genre.Please alsto recommend me something that is as epic as clannad ^_^ And when it comes to epic anime, in the true sense of epic (Clannad isn't really epic by definition), I would, not surprisingly I'm sure, recommend Legend of the Galactic Heroes. |
| SaberSkye and AirStyles both have quite a valid point actually. The truth of the matter is the ending of Clannad (while certainly not the ending I desired) was certainly not that bad as how some make i out to be. Suckers for happy endings will definately love it, I know at least 10 people who felt the ending was perfect. So even here, opinions can vary. Clannad might not be epic when taking into account the true definition of epic. LoGH, TTGL, and CG however would fit this category. However, Clannad was very well done and was quite nearly a modern day classic; at least in my eyes. A classic is at least 10 times better than an anime just being epic. :) |
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jahrakal2009 said: Now, there is not truth about it not having a bad ending, you just said it's about varying opinions, aren't you contradicting yourself there?SaberSkye and AirStyles both have quite a valid point actually. The truth of the matter is the ending of Clannad (while certainly not the ending I desired) was certainly not that bad as how some make i out to be. Suckers for happy endings will definately love it, I know at least 10 people who felt the ending was perfect. So even here, opinions can vary. A classic is at least 10 times better than an anime just being epic. :) And an epic classic would be even better :) |
Baman said: Now, there is not truth about it not having a bad ending, you just said it's about varying opinions, aren't you contradicting yourself there? I suppose there is a fair bit of contradiction, as this is all based on opinions. Although I still feel that the ending in itself was not bad enough to brand Clannad AS a failure. This anime had warmth, tragedy, humor, touching moments, moving moments and even some brilliant technicalities such as artwork, animation and music. Overall, I think the series pulled itself well enough that not many would be far better than it. Well, yes it will. :) |
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| Clannad is #1 in Japan. That is all. :) |
| Fear the finger of death |
jahrakal2009 said: And yet, all those are peripheral appeals alone. Which is precisely why it failed to impress me.I suppose there is a fair bit of contradiction, as this is all based on opinions. Although I still feel that the ending in itself was not bad enough to brand Clannad AS a failure. This anime had warmth, tragedy, humor, touching moments, moving moments and even some brilliant technicalities such as artwork, animation and music. Overall, I think the series pulled itself well enough that not many would be far better than it. Alas, I am far too much of a praetaentious elitist to be able to thoroughly enjoy that which does not try to appeal to my logic through carefully constructed plots and well written, reflected characters. Ti's a hamartia, I'm sure. |
| I agree, LOGH sounds like an awesome show. Maybe it might be better than Clannad, despite all the emotion from Clannad I'm willing to bet I might find LOGH better. Animation, sound and graphics mean nothing to me. |
| Fear the finger of death |
Baman said: And yet, all those are peripheral appeals alone. Which is precisely why it failed to impress me. Alas, I am far too much of a praetaentious elitist to be able to thoroughly enjoy that which does not try to appeal to my logic through carefully constructed plots and well written, reflected characters. Ti's a hamartia, I'm sure. I don't know. Clannad had heart, and you could tell that the producers put great effort in creating the anime. The ability to affect a wide audience emotionally and yet balance that out with witty jokes is a talent in itself. Let's be honest, the idea of basing a series around family has been incorporated in many anime and is a soft spot for many viewers. However, Clannad is perhaps one of the very few series that takes such a common yet significant theme to heart. I don't think many things can beat that. Dexterous said: I agree, LOGH sounds like an awesome show. Maybe it might be better than Clannad, despite all the emotion from Clannad I'm willing to bet I might find LOGH better. Animation, sound and graphics mean nothing to me. Don't know. Not sure if you would like LOGH to be honest. I have seen some of it and I can assure you, the majority of this season's anime alone might be superior to LOGH. You'll still find Clannad better I'm sure, as the series has a much greater sentimental value. Also, I doubt technicalities aren't important to you. Most viewers (like 99%) will cringe at aweful graphics and production capabilities. Like for instance, Blassreiter is often subject to constant bashing due to its suposedly inferior use of CG. |
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| Wow.... this is now second place with 8.98.... |
| . |
jahrakal2009 said: Does not change the fact that it's all peripheral appealing, which is much more easily made than primary ones. It didn't try to impress level headed and analytical viewers with an impressive plot and characters, it tried to impress the masses with easy emotional appeals, and that just doesn't work very well with some people. Seeing your ratings, you seem to be the opposite, so you probably would not be able to see my side of it.I don't know. Clannad had heart, and you could tell that the producers put great effort in creating the anime. The ability to affect a wide audience emotionally and yet balance that out with witty jokes is a talent in itself. Let's be honest, the idea of basing a series around family has been incorporated in many anime and is a soft spot for many viewers. However, Clannad is perhaps one of the very few series that takes such a common yet significant theme to heart. I don't think many things can beat that. Don't know. Not sure if you would like LOGH to be honest. I have seen some of it and I can assure you, the majority of this season's anime alone might be superior to LOGH. You'll still find Clannad better I'm sure, as the series has a much greater sentimental value. As for this season's anime, there is a frightening amount of unimaginative drivel, whether it's boob anime, generic moe anime, remakes of generic shounen anime or whatnot. How anything in this season could even be measured with LoGH is way beyond my understanding.Also, I doubt technicalities aren't important to you. Most viewers (like 99%) will cringe at aweful graphics and production capabilities. Like for instance, Blassreiter is often subject to constant bashing due to its suposedly inferior use of CG. And again, sentimental value is not necessarily a good thing. It is a cheap and easy way to persuasion, and we know that primary persuasion leaves a much more lasting impression than the more shallow peripheral one does. And then there are the personal preferences, not everyone have a very analytical and logical mind, and these would naturally prefer emotional appeals and the like rather then deep, logical ones. As for your statistics, they are completely unfounded, lest you have some proper statistical evidence in support of it? And graphics are also a peripheral means to persuasion, if you must know. |
Baman said: Does not change the fact that it's all peripheral appealing, which is much more easily made than primary ones. It didn't try to impress level headed and analytical viewers with an impressive plot and characters, it tried to impress the masses with easy emotional appeals, and that just doesn't work very well with some people. Seeing your ratings, you seem to be the opposite, so you probably would not be able to see my side of it. Woot, Baman just got a m-m-m-monster kill. Major ownage there. As for this season's anime, there is a frightening amount of unimaginative drivel, whether it's boob anime, generic moe anime, remakes of generic shounen anime or whatnot. How anything in this season could even be measured with LoGH is way beyond my understanding. Actually, this point rings true. Jah, like seriously, you're not a stupid guy, but your constant bashing of LOGH without having fully seen it would make you appear so. I mean, you're being corrected here and there, it's better to just admit you don't like the miniscule 6 episodes you watched or just admit you haven't seen enough to judge how good it is. P.S. No offense to you, I'm simply trying to stop you from digging your own grave. And again, sentimental value is not necessarily a good thing. It is a cheap and easy way to persuasion, and we know that primary persuasion leaves a much more lasting impression than the more shallow peripheral one does. And then there are the personal preferences, not everyone have a very analytical and logical mind, and these would naturally prefer emotional appeals and the like rather then deep, logical ones. As for your statistics, they are completely unfounded, lest you have some proper statistical evidence in support of it? And graphics are also a peripheral means to persuasion, if you must know. Dunno, but I loved Clannad for those reasons. I guess I'm still quite the sentimental fool in some respects. tehnominator said: Yes, LotGH is better than Clannad. And I love Clannad with all my love, so there you go. It's just different, but I wouldn't necessarily compare the two since it would be unreasonable. One anime is about a much-reflected upon teenage love affair setting its roots down and the exploration of probably every tragic emotion a single character could face with elements of fantasy thrown into it. The other is an anime about the galaxy, a war raging between an empire and an alliance and the hundreds of people caught up in the gruelling mind battles of two of the most charismatic, intelligent men in the universe while corrupt politics and societal issues and the history of mankind comes into play. Apples and oranges. Fruity Pebbles and Cheerios. You can't really compare the two, but you have your preferences. I prefer to rate things according to how well they stack up to other anime within their genres. So Clannad to me exemplifies what the drama/romance/slice of life series could become and LotGH exemplifies how great a military sci fi space opera anime could be. Finally a Clannad fan without the overhelming bias. LOGH does sound like a very good watch, deep and intelligent. As for the comparison, I agree that it wouldn't make sense to make a comparison between different genres of anime. Clannad was special I guess because family is something very important to me, so I'll always have a special place for it. That said, I think I'm gonna give LOGH a try. |
| Fear the finger of death |
| Would somebody mind answering my question from the previous page? I don't think game8910 is coming back. I seriously don't get how that would make somebody an evil bastard. |
| wha? wha? I was talking about real family back then not anime characters :\ *doesn't even know what he was trying to discusss back then* orz |
| Who doesn't value family, lol? |
| Fear the finger of death |
game8910 said: wha? wha? I was talking about real family back then not anime characters : *doesn't even know what he was trying to discusss back then* orz Read it again. You were obviously talking about the characters in Clannad. |
Dexterous said: Actually, this point rings true. Jah, like seriously, you're not a stupid guy, but your constant bashing of LOGH without having fully seen it would make you appear so. I mean, you're being corrected here and there, it's better to just admit you don't like the miniscule 6 episodes you watched or just admit you haven't seen enough to judge how good it is. P.S. No offense to you, I'm simply trying to stop you from digging your own grave. I do wonder sometimes if cheerleading is the only form of argument you are capable of. I'm not even sure what you are trying to do really. Considering you have not even seen LOGH yourself, you're on an even more precarious situation. Finally a Clannad fan without the overhelming bias. LOGH does sound like a very good watch, deep and intelligent. As for the comparison, I agree that it wouldn't make sense to make a comparison between different genres of anime. Clannad was special I guess because family is something very important to me, so I'll always have a special place for it. That said, I think I'm gonna give LOGH a try. What bias? What I have stated are merely facts that should e considered before branding anime x is better than anime y or vice versa. As for you giving LOGH a try, sure be my guest. Just don't say I didn't warn you later. Baman said: Does not change the fact that it's all peripheral appealing, which is much more easily made than primary ones. It didn't try to impress level headed and analytical viewers with an impressive plot and characters, it tried to impress the masses with easy emotional appeals, and that just doesn't work very well with some people. Seeing your ratings, you seem to be the opposite, so you probably would not be able to see my side of it. Well, LOGH struck me as lacking in any warmth and feeling. The animation was quite poorly done which gives me the impression that the producers just copied whatever was included in the novel and never gave much thought into improving this space operaish epic. So far, the line up of characters have been really disappointing. Reinhard in particular seems to be designed just for the sake of impressing the audience with his authoritarian and rather firm approach to things. And again, sentimental value is not necessarily a good thing. It is a cheap and easy way to persuasion, and we know that primary persuasion leaves a much more lasting impression than the more shallow peripheral one does. And then there are the personal preferences, not everyone have a very analytical and logical mind, and these would naturally prefer emotional appeals and the like rather then deep, logical ones. As for your statistics, they are completely unfounded, lest you have some proper statistical evidence in support of it? And graphics are also a peripheral means to persuasion, if you must know. But sentimentality and traditional values such as family, friendship, determination and growing up are leagues above the usual deep emotions derived from a particular characters death just for the sake of creating drama. This is of course something Clannad succeeds to do as it raises the questions of the effects of a family, both one united and complete and a broken one. Such values will aways remain a part of humanity and has been with us since the beginning of time. |
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