Doubt
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| THIS IS AN MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- gay ending |
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| Wow, so completely different ending than what I thought it would be, and I have to say...I'd have preferred a cliche ending over this one. Hypnotism? Really? Come on, real hypnotism doesn't work like that. If this manga was going to have a supernatural twist, there should have been supernatural elements throughout. It should not have paraded itself as a realistic suspense/horror and then been like "BUT WAIT! Hypnotism is like it is in the movies! And people have no free will! AND FLYING MONKEYS!" The other thing that bugs the heck outta me about this ending is that if little creepy chick was alive the whole time, how the heck did no once notice her breathing when she "crucified' herself? The whole purpose of crucifiction is that it makes it impossibly difficult to raise your body enough to allow you to continue breathing. In other words, hanging on a wall in such a position would make it very obvious whether you were breathing or not as your body would heave up and down. Now maybe she had some weird setup where all of her weight wasn't resting on her pinned arms (there'd have to be some strap or ledge supporting her back and bottom), but wouldn't that have been noticable? Oh sure, you could throw the whole "it was so traumatizing, no one looked too closely" card, but come on, if Hajime is a detective (which was another pointless twist in my opinion), wouldn't he at the least have noticed? |
| Just read this today and i did'nt mind the ending, it's very different to what i thought would happen, although i kind of guessed who would be the wolf before i even began reading by looking at one the cover pages (was a lucky guess tbh, i just thought the most innocent looking one is usually the one who's the most insane from my experience with horror films.). This definitely gave off a Saw vibe, infact the story is pretty much a carbon copy of the 2nd film, taking alot of ideas from it too. Only problem i got is that with what happened to Rei at the start, with her being crucified, which is a huge point in the story. Maybe it's a rushed ending, or the mangaka trying to be too shocking with his twists but the Rei being alive all along was not explained well at all, infact it was'nt even given an explanation. The mangaka can't explain it to be hypnotism that caused them to see Rei crucified against the wall, as was said by Rei, her hypnotism only works on people who are easiliy influenced, who usually have some extreme emotional problems, and from what we was told it seems only Mitsuki and that guy with the scar on his face had some. Also with what the poster above pointed out, the only thing i can think of is that, the Rei that was crucified on the wall was a fake. After saying that though, i did enjoy the story, even if predictable i was pretty absorbed. If it was'nt for the not-so-well-explained plot twist with Rei i would of given it an 8, but it gets a 7 for me. Sorry for long post :P |
Siliane89Apr 5, 2009 7:22 AM
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| I actually kinda like the ending, obviously they were both going to die, the "wolf" was still alive... Is it me, or is this manga, Saw-like? ^^ |
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| The ending was kinda unexpected |: meh~ |
StriderNov 2, 2009 1:39 PM
| We're all insane |
Tsumayouji said: Wow, so completely different ending than what I thought it would be, and I have to say...I'd have preferred a cliche ending over this one. Hypnotism? Really? Come on, real hypnotism doesn't work like that. If this manga was going to have a supernatural twist, there should have been supernatural elements throughout. It should not have paraded itself as a realistic suspense/horror and then been like "BUT WAIT! Hypnotism is like it is in the movies! And people have no free will! AND FLYING MONKEYS!" The other thing that bugs the heck outta me about this ending is that if little creepy chick was alive the whole time, how the heck did no once notice her breathing when she "crucified' herself? The whole purpose of crucifiction is that it makes it impossibly difficult to raise your body enough to allow you to continue breathing. In other words, hanging on a wall in such a position would make it very obvious whether you were breathing or not as your body would heave up and down. Now maybe she had some weird setup where all of her weight wasn't resting on her pinned arms (there'd have to be some strap or ledge supporting her back and bottom), but wouldn't that have been noticable? Oh sure, you could throw the whole "it was so traumatizing, no one looked too closely" card, but come on, if Hajime is a detective (which was another pointless twist in my opinion), wouldn't he at the least have noticed? lol, loved your flying monkey's comment. about the rei death scene, i'd buy that she just hypnotized them into thinking she was there and dead. i mean, that's basically the answer to everything else, so why not? |
      [url=http://www.squiby.net/level/4135737] |
| Yeah, that's a good point. I guess they decided to apply a super-sized hypnotism band-aid to this after it was completed. Any discrepancies? Blame hypnotism! ^_~ |
shootsbrah said: Tsumayouji said: Wow, so completely different ending than what I thought it would be, and I have to say...I'd have preferred a cliche ending over this one. Hypnotism? Really? Come on, real hypnotism doesn't work like that. If this manga was going to have a supernatural twist, there should have been supernatural elements throughout. It should not have paraded itself as a realistic suspense/horror and then been like "BUT WAIT! Hypnotism is like it is in the movies! And people have no free will! AND FLYING MONKEYS!" The other thing that bugs the heck outta me about this ending is that if little creepy chick was alive the whole time, how the heck did no once notice her breathing when she "crucified' herself? The whole purpose of crucifiction is that it makes it impossibly difficult to raise your body enough to allow you to continue breathing. In other words, hanging on a wall in such a position would make it very obvious whether you were breathing or not as your body would heave up and down. Now maybe she had some weird setup where all of her weight wasn't resting on her pinned arms (there'd have to be some strap or ledge supporting her back and bottom), but wouldn't that have been noticable? Oh sure, you could throw the whole "it was so traumatizing, no one looked too closely" card, but come on, if Hajime is a detective (which was another pointless twist in my opinion), wouldn't he at the least have noticed? lol, loved your flying monkey's comment. about the rei death scene, i'd buy that she just hypnotized them into thinking she was there and dead. i mean, that's basically the answer to everything else, so why not? Hahaha xD I love your comment about the hypnotism. Totally agreee. |
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| What a "WTF" ending XD Overall I enjoyed reading this manga, creeped me out a few times with some panels. Although I can't deny the fact that that if they filled in those holes in the storyline, it wouldn't be so great. There were just too much info that wasn't provided to the readers. Mangaka just provided whatever info was convenient for him/her and the storyline at a time when they saw fit. What I really liked about this manga is how much doubt I had for each character. For countless amount of times, I'll think the wolf is Rei (she can do hypnotism, that's why she's the wolf!!) but time and time again throughout the manga I'll switch into suspecting Mitsuki, Eiji, Hajime, Haruka and yes even Yuu. So the fact that the mangaka was able to pull off this whole theme of "doubt", I thought was genius :3 |
| I just marathoned it and this is my thought proccess: It's Rei! {Rei is crucified} Can't be Rei! It's Eiji! {Possibility remains} {Eiji dies} It's Haruka! ... {Haruka was kinda left out} It's Mizuki! {Mizuki becomes very ill, it can't be her} It's Hajime! {Everyone dies except for Mizuki, Yuu & Hajime} Mizuki is insane.. ... It's Rei. WHAT THE FUCK. well yes, that's about it. Although I enjoyed it, it had loads of holes. - Mizuki healing. - Rei .. alive? - Mizuki hanged and stabbed.. |
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Tsunami said: Ahahahaha yeap, my experience was very similar to yours hahahaa~ I love how you wrote it all out XDI just marathoned it and this is my thought proccess: It's Rei! {Rei is crucified} Can't be Rei! It's Eiji! {Possibility remains} {Eiji dies} It's Haruka! ... {Haruka was kinda left out} It's Mizuki! {Mizuki becomes very ill, it can't be her} It's Hajime! {Everyone dies except for Mizuki, Yuu & Hajime} Mizuki is insane.. ... It's Rei. WHAT THE FUCK. well yes, that's about it. Although I enjoyed it, it had loads of holes. - Mizuki healing. - Rei .. alive? - Mizuki hanged and stabbed.. |
Deathnosis said: Ther storyline is certainly interesting! Immediately when I read the synopsis of the manga, it reminded me a lot of this game my friends and I used to play, Mafia. Basically at random and secretly, a few people are assigned to be the bad guys; just like the wolf, one by one they kill off a person. People then have to figure out, debate, defend, etc. to find out who are the bad guys before all of the innocent people are killed off. My description does no justice to the game, if you ever hang out with more than 10 people at once, it's the perfect game to play, you can easily look up the instructions on wikipedia :).I hate the ending. gah I think I would end off by killing everyone in the house but heck I like the idea of the story |
robbydesu said: Deathnosis said: Ther storyline is certainly interesting! Immediately when I read the synopsis of the manga, it reminded me a lot of this game my friends and I used to play, Mafia. Basically at random and secretly, a few people are assigned to be the bad guys; just like the wolf, one by one they kill off a person. People then have to figure out, debate, defend, etc. to find out who are the bad guys before all of the innocent people are killed off. My description does no justice to the game, if you ever hang out with more than 10 people at once, it's the perfect game to play, you can easily look up the instructions on wikipedia :).I hate the ending. gah I think I would end off by killing everyone in the house but heck I like the idea of the story I thought the same thing when I first started reading. Gotta love good old mafia. Whenever we played at summer writing camp, this one guy was always killed because "He's wearing a baseball cap, and that's suspicious." Then, the one game in which everyone agreed not to pick him because they felt sorry for him, I knew, I KNEW it was him. I tried to tell them, but did they listen? Noooo. You'd think me dying right after accusing him would have been a giveaway, but ah well. |
Tsumayouji said: LOL I love those moments where the unexpected happens. As for my friends and I, there were tons of random and funny things that happened. Due to some twisted luck, I was mafia like 90% of the time we played, same with one of my other friends. So it came to a point when people immediately assumed that my friend or I am part of mafia. I got so sick of the pressure of being part of the mafia so I started volunteering to be the narrator instead XD.robbydesu said: Deathnosis said: Ther storyline is certainly interesting! Immediately when I read the synopsis of the manga, it reminded me a lot of this game my friends and I used to play, Mafia. Basically at random and secretly, a few people are assigned to be the bad guys; just like the wolf, one by one they kill off a person. People then have to figure out, debate, defend, etc. to find out who are the bad guys before all of the innocent people are killed off. My description does no justice to the game, if you ever hang out with more than 10 people at once, it's the perfect game to play, you can easily look up the instructions on wikipedia :).I hate the ending. gah I think I would end off by killing everyone in the house but heck I like the idea of the story I thought the same thing when I first started reading. Gotta love good old mafia. Whenever we played at summer writing camp, this one guy was always killed because "He's wearing a baseball cap, and that's suspicious." Then, the one game in which everyone agreed not to pick him because they felt sorry for him, I knew, I KNEW it was him. I tried to tell them, but did they listen? Noooo. You'd think me dying right after accusing him would have been a giveaway, but ah well. |
| And it's over.. I really liked this manga, it was dark, and creepy at times. There were a few loose ends and clichés, it really reminded me of the SAW movies. But I think it's better this way, not having everything fully explained, left to the imagination. I love these kinds of endings too, where the good guys lose. The Wolf is the winner :D |
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| Ending was meh. |
     #Feitoism @ irc.rizon.net - the official IRC channel for Fate Testarossa.  |
| The ending was kinda annoying but I still would'nt call it stupid. I mean not every manga can end with butterflies floating about ;P and did anyone else spot Rei(wheel chair girl) giving an evil smile in chapter 2 after she faked her death? it's when Mitsuki walks in i think. DOUBT = AWSOMENESS!!! |
| I figured out by chapter 8 that Mitsuki was the one doing the killings. That was obvious. And even though they waited until chapter 14 to reveal it, that was alright. But Rei being the mastermind with hypnosis? Sorry, you've just created about a billion logical inconsistencies and loose ends. What about Rei's body at the beginning? How the hell can that be easily duplicated? How does she get Hajime to go with the one investigator she has under control? I mean, really? When he's in a wheelchair no less? How is it that Mitsuki, who is under restraints and on death's door, suddenly break through her bonds AND gets a weapon AND evades hospital security AND knows where Yuu's room is? And how is she a perfect wolf, exactly? She's known in all of Japan as a killer. How will she even escape the hospital? You think that the investigator who kills Hajime won't be found out, too? It was just a completely unnecessary swerve at the very end that the manga didn't need. |
| Yea, gotta say the ending wasn't thought out all that well imo, still though, the series was an enjoyable read. |
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| I hated the ending but the rest was great, i woul probably give it a 9 with a decent ending but the whole hipnotism thing and Rei being alive(hated it on Saw hated it here) made me give it a 7 :P |
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Tsunami said: I just marathoned it and this is my thought proccess: It's Rei! {Rei is crucified} Can't be Rei! It's Eiji! {Possibility remains} {Eiji dies} It's Haruka! ... {Haruka was kinda left out} It's Mizuki! {Mizuki becomes very ill, it can't be her} It's Hajime! {Everyone dies except for Mizuki, Yuu & Hajime} Mizuki is insane.. ... It's Rei. WHAT THE FUCK. well yes, that's about it. Although I enjoyed it, it had loads of holes. - Mizuki healing. - Rei .. alive? - Mizuki hanged and stabbed.. Haha, my thought process was pretty close to yours. But throughout it all, I had a nagging feeling that Rei wasn't dead. It just seemed a bit unnatural to me that she had died so early and was the only one who was crucified, while everyone was hung after they were killed. Edit: YoungVagabond said: I figured out by chapter 8 that Mitsuki was the one doing the killings. That was obvious. And even though they waited until chapter 14 to reveal it, that was alright. But Rei being the mastermind with hypnosis? Sorry, you've just created about a billion logical inconsistencies and loose ends. What about Rei's body at the beginning? How the hell can that be easily duplicated? How does she get Hajime to go with the one investigator she has under control? I mean, really? When he's in a wheelchair no less? How is it that Mitsuki, who is under restraints and on death's door, suddenly break through her bonds AND gets a weapon AND evades hospital security AND knows where Yuu's room is? And how is she a perfect wolf, exactly? She's known in all of Japan as a killer. How will she even escape the hospital? You think that the investigator who kills Hajime won't be found out, too? It was just a completely unnecessary swerve at the very end that the manga didn't need. I was wondering about Rei's, "dead body" too. And about Mitsuki. IIRC, Hajime advised Yuu to visit Mitsuki. So he was already in her room, then he found the cell phone, then he said the magic words, and then she came back from the dead(well... she wasn't exactly dead, but she was pretty damn close). But I agree, it was a completely unnecessary swerve of an ending. |
AeroliteSep 1, 2009 10:43 PM
Aerolite said: And about Mitsuki. IIRC, Hajime advised Yuu to visit Mitsuki. Ah, good catch. I missed that. However, that only clears up one of the questions, and adds so many more. How did Rei get the cellphone there? That omniscient, deus ex machina investigator, again? How did she time things so perfectly with her call? Also, every hospital I've ever been in has tons of orderlies milling around the Critical Care unit. No way would they be alone. Would Mistuki even HEAR those words considering she's in a coma, and there's a glass window separating the two? Again, where was the editor on all this? Aerolite said: So he was already in her room, then he found the cell phone, then he said the magic words, and then she came back from the dead(well... she wasn't exactly dead, but she was pretty damn close). Rei isn't a hypnotist...she's actually...A NECROMANCER! |
| Lame ending. The last 1/4th of this manga was as lame as American horror movies. |
| That was it? Wow ... |
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| it was a good ending i geuss.. but i didnt like it >_> |
mayweather p4p king   |
| The ending sucked. It's too unrealistic for rei to be the ultimate mastermind. sheesh, yuu should have at least found a way to defeat her or something.... And why the hell was the knife and apple there? Why the sht is it in a COMATOSED person's room? So she could eat it when she wakes up? I don't think her visitors just felt like an apple right before they decided to visit her and brought a knife to cut and eat it in her room... -_- |
| Well, I liked that the ending took place outside of that stupid mental hospital, and that Hajime and Yuu made it out ok- oh wait that didn't happen. 6/10. Overall, pretty disappointed. |
Aerolite said: Tsunami said: I just marathoned it and this is my thought proccess: It's Rei! {Rei is crucified} Can't be Rei! It's Eiji! {Possibility remains} {Eiji dies} It's Haruka! ... {Haruka was kinda left out} It's Mizuki! {Mizuki becomes very ill, it can't be her} It's Hajime! {Everyone dies except for Mizuki, Yuu & Hajime} Mizuki is insane.. ... It's Rei. WHAT THE FUCK. well yes, that's about it. Although I enjoyed it, it had loads of holes. - Mizuki healing. - Rei .. alive? - Mizuki hanged and stabbed.. Haha, my thought process was pretty close to yours. But throughout it all, I had a nagging feeling that Rei wasn't dead. It just seemed a bit unnatural to me that she had died so early and was the only one who was crucified, while everyone was hung after they were killed. Wahahaha...Same thought process...except for the Rei part....but it wasn't a suprise too me...cause....It was so very SAW like...the main villain was already there on the start... YoungVagabond said: And how is she a perfect wolf, exactly? She's known in all of Japan as a killer. dame da...zen zen dame da... that's not what she meant....she is the perfect wolf cause.. Innocent mode ---> Keyword:for the ones i love ----> Wolf killing mode She's so emotionally destroyed that Rei has perfect control over her.... YoungVagabond said: Also, every hospital I've ever been in has tons of orderlies milling around the Critical Care unit. No way would they be alone. Would Mistuki even HEAR those words considering she's in a coma, and there's a glass window separating the two? What glass?? there is no glass...it's a normal hopsital room... Well...the mind can pick up waves...hypnotic waves...like how Cell phones could destroy your head with its frequency YoungVagabond said: How does she get Hajime to go with the one investigator she has under control? I mean, really? When he's in a wheelchair no less? Well..Hajime thought that HE should double check it so the crime scene couldn't be cheated no matter what.....and Well...bout the controlled investigator...Hypnotism again Well...all of your other questions can be answered by Rei's Ultra Super Cell phone Hypnotism... Logic...Rei's Ultra Super Mega Giga Terra Hypnotism destroyed your logic.... Well...Good manga..somewhat has an ending like SAW and that is not really that good 8/10 (I only give animes/mangas a grade of 6-10) |
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| Ugh. I was really disappointed by this. Things started going seriously downhill at the midway point of the series and it just continued to the very end as such. I had guessed that Mitsuki was behind the killings pretty early on and had a feeling Rei was involved from the get go (subtlety is not a skill this author practices apparently). I wanted to enjoy this for what it was but all of the silly inconsistencies just felt like laziness on the mangaka's part. The issue of Rei's crucified body at the beginning being the most jarring. How can the author just leave something like that without a proper explanation? The lol-Deus ex machina-hypnotismhax was lazy as well. Just feels kind of cheap to me. Very little of this was believable. And I don't mean just the hypnotism element. I mean the way the characters behaved. SaberSkye said: And why the hell was the knife and apple there? Why the sht is it in a COMATOSED person's room? So she could eat it when she wakes up? I don't think her visitors just felt like an apple right before they decided to visit her and brought a knife to cut and eat it in her room... -_- Yeah. This bothered me as well. Just..wat. 5/10 for now. Might bump it down to a 4. |
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| Fairly unexpected ending. Although, I did have the whole, 'Everyone is going to die" sensation. Which wasn't exactly true because two of them lived. Well, I did love this manga, though. :3 It was entertaining to read. They just threw too many twists in it that kind of got ridiculous, but, it's good, nonetheless. |
Tsunami said: I just marathoned it and this is my thought proccess: It's Rei! {Rei is crucified} Can't be Rei! It's Eiji! {Possibility remains} {Eiji dies} It's Haruka! ... {Haruka was kinda left out} It's Mizuki! {Mizuki becomes very ill, it can't be her} It's Hajime! {Everyone dies except for Mizuki, Yuu & Hajime} Mizuki is insane.. ... It's Rei. WHAT THE FUCK. well yes, that's about it. Laughed so hard at this. XD I'm also one of those who had a reading marathon with this manga, and agreed, there are some plot-holes. The ending doesn't appeal to me either (don't believe in hypnotism :/), but I loved the idea with that sentence that acted as a trigger. Overall, I gave this manga a 9/10, since it was short enough, kept me interested through the all time, and had an awesome ending ("She's the perfect wolf."). :) |
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| I knew Rei would be the one behind everything. Sort of reminds me of the theories that Battler had in Umineko about someone faking their death and then going on to murder the others. I hated the ending though. I was hoping that at least Hajime (my fav character in this series) and Yuu would live. And wth is up with Rei's hypnotism? Mitsuki was in a coma, but she woke up from healing the hypnosis through a phone. Ridiculous. |
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| hmm it was fine :| but too bonal nano desu >.> |
| I love when evil defeats good.<3 Average story, perfect ending.Yay for Rei. |
| God damn. Ending pissed me off. But I have to admit, the twist was well done and I'm glad that there's still some stories out there that have the bad guy winning... but, really? I wanted Mitsuki to be released, bad Rei go to jail, and Hejime survive. I also wanted, obviously, Yuu to survive. But that didn't happen... :( In all, I really enjoyed the story. Really creeped me out. It should be an anime(: |
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| I like the story at first but characters died so quickly and the wolfs founded so easy. Ending was very bad and hypnotism is so cliche. I was hoping more interesting end. It was going to an 'awesome manga' to end. 'Cause the wolfs are randomly and how Eiji can sleep? Really? A guy captured you, and you are going to die but do nothing? By the way why Rei killed Yuu? |
| i also marathon'd this today :DD From the biggining, when they said about the hipnotism, i new the wolf was rei, i dunno how, but i had a feeling, and when she died, i was like UHU! nao she can kill the people easily! and then with the whole mutzuki thing at the end, and i was like damn! D: i thort i was right T.T BUT THEN I WAS RIGHT! and now i feel accomplished :D and this reminded me of saw :| but all in all it was pretty great :) i dont ussually read this kind of thing, but i enjoyed this :D |
| I was right about Rei being the culprit :), I don't mind if the antagonist wins, but I didn't like her that much. Once they found the first wolf the tension went down witch was disappointing. 6/10 It was fun, but nothing special. |
ClosedCXJul 7, 2010 10:00 PM
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