| brb using crystal ball. |
| Read the visual novel please. Everything that you want to know about the F/SN universe is in there. and the F/SN anime adaption sucked. They butchered it so much. |
jzmagic said: Everyone got a bad end in FZ except for Kirei and Gilgamesh, the two main villains. I'm wondering if they're going to continue with the bad ends for this. I'd like to see Shirou and Saber together in the end unlike in the original FSN. Thoughts? All FSN endings are bittersweet. The very ending of previous anime, was pretty much the only thing faithful to the visual novel, as it was pretty much one of endings in it. icecwmelf said: Yeah I agree with the butchering of the F/SN adaptation part, but apparently the 2014 remake is getting an anime original ending so not sure how true it will stay to the Visual Novel. Really do wish that it will be the Heaven's Feel route though since that has the best story imo and is closest to following up FZ. Incorrect bullshit. We do not know what 2014 FSN covers. |
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icecwmelf said: Yeah I agree with the butchering of the F/SN adaptation part, but apparently the 2014 remake is getting an anime original ending so not sure how true it will stay to the Visual Novel. Really do wish that it will be the Heaven's Feel route though since that has the best story imo and is closest to following up FZ. It's not an original story. Fate/Zero is a prequel to all three routes not just HF. We get a new thread every other day on this forum and the first couple of posts say the exact same thing.. Stop making these threads :\ |
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| itt Fai being mad and blunt as ever <3 But yeah, we don't know shit about whats being adapted, though I feel that it will end off with a significantly Heaven's Feel-inspired arc, less a lot of Urobuchi's efforts into paralleling HF in Fate/Zero will go to waste. I wonder if it'll be a single timeline, or a new story combining the timelines through some plot device, or maybe 3 split seasons or something. Was there ever a verified clarification of the information about the Ufotable remake? I read that the "original story" part was a mistranslation, an that it was actually just going to have "original content" in the adaptation. |
Vladz0rApr 20, 2014 1:51 PM
jzmagic said: I'd like to see Shirou and Saber together in the end unlike in the original FSN. Thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc Vladz0r said: itt Fai being mad and blunt as ever <3 But yeah, we don't know shit about whats being adapted, though I feel that it will end off with a significantly Heaven's Feel-inspired arc, less a lot of Urobuchi's efforts into paralleling HF in Fate/Zero will go to waste. I wonder if it'll be a single timeline, or a new story combining the timelines through some plot device, or maybe 3 split seasons or something. Was there ever a verified clarification of the information about the Ufotable remake? I read that the "original story" part was a mistranslation, an that it was actually just going to have "original content" in the adaptation. There was one thing.Nasu asked them to forget FZ and work on the new FSN since it is a "different work" and they agreed.So arc-wise it wont try to match FZ. In the bold,do you mean that Urobuchi made FZ with HF in mind?Because that isnt true. |
ssjokg said: jzmagic said: I'd like to see Shirou and Saber together in the end unlike in the original FSN. Thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPmb0F00YPE |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| >Implying that F/Z ending was depressing. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| It will have a CGI explosion ending. |
BloodRequiem said: >Implying that F/Z ending was depressing. But the good guy lost and shit.... mickdrew_99 said: ssjokg said: jzmagic said: I'd like to see Shirou and Saber together in the end unlike in the original FSN. Thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPmb0F00YPE *singing* give a fuck about yo feelings |
ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: >Implying that F/Z ending was depressing. But the good guy lost and shit.... >Implying F/0 had "good guys". |
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| Anime without good guys is best anime. Edge forever. |
Fai said: It did.But they are dumb.ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: >Implying that F/Z ending was depressing. But the good guy lost and shit.... >Implying F/0 had "good guys". |
ssjokg said: mickdrew_99 said: ssjokg said: jzmagic said: I'd like to see Shirou and Saber together in the end unlike in the original FSN. Thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPmb0F00YPE *singing* give a fuck about yo feelings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAE0pLhT8eQ |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
mickdrew_99 said: ssjokg said: mickdrew_99 said: ssjokg said: jzmagic said: I'd like to see Shirou and Saber together in the end unlike in the original FSN. Thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPmb0F00YPE *singing* give a fuck about yo feelings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAE0pLhT8eQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzd40i8TfA |
MrNTR said: Fate Zero was written by Urobuchi and he's loves depressing bad ends. In fact, if Nasu hadn't already established the story, everyone would had ended up dead. The only bittersweet "True End" is in the Fate Route, the bittersweet endings of the other routes are called "Normal End." jzmagic said: I'd like to see Shirou and Saber together in the end unlike in the original FSN. Thoughts? They did end up together, together in death. This is shown in the "Epilogue" of newer released versions of the game. Shirou ends up living his life pretty much the same way Archer did. However, instead of regretting his life after death, he finds peace and happiness because, unlike Archer, he gets laid. If Nasu hadnt established teh story then FZ would be something completely different form the chars to the events. FSN's endings are bittersweet with the exception of UBW's normal ending which is the only happy go lucky ending. Except that he only met her in his last dream. |
ssjokg said: FSN's endings are bittersweet with the exception of UBW's normal ending which is the only happy go lucky ending. Other than that the "bittersweet" part of UBW endings comes from a metaphysical side of it all - Shirou is living with the knowledge of just how much he can fuck up and acceptance that his ideals won't ever be FULLY implemented, because they are ideals and he needs to conjoin them with reality. |
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Fai said: ssjokg said: FSN's endings are bittersweet with the exception of UBW's normal ending which is the only happy go lucky ending. Other than that the "bittersweet" part of UBW endings comes from a metaphysical side of it all - Shirou is living with the knowledge of just how much he can fuck up and acceptance that his ideals won't ever be FULLY implemented, because they are ideals and he needs to conjoin them with reality. |
ssjokg said: Fai said: ssjokg said: FSN's endings are bittersweet with the exception of UBW's normal ending which is the only happy go lucky ending. Other than that the "bittersweet" part of UBW endings comes from a metaphysical side of it all - Shirou is living with the knowledge of just how much he can fuck up and acceptance that his ideals won't ever be FULLY implemented, because they are ideals and he needs to conjoin them with reality. |
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| The answer is yes. |
souledge94 said: there was an extra ending added to the FSN novel that was kinda more happy. It's not canon and it's just fan service. They better not add it to this adaptation. There Fai, I saved you the trouble. |
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Fai said: ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: >Implying that F/Z ending was depressing. But the good guy lost and shit.... >Implying F/0 had "good guys". Rider and Waver are the good guys. |
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MysticGoose said: Fai said: ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: >Implying that F/Z ending was depressing. But the good guy lost and shit.... >Implying F/0 had "good guys". Rider and Waver are the good guys. Rider is an evil, hypocritical tyrant. Waver is the only 'good' guy. |
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Botato said: MysticGoose said: Fai said: ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: >Implying that F/Z ending was depressing. But the good guy lost and shit.... >Implying F/0 had "good guys". Rider and Waver are the good guys. Rider is an evil, hypocritical tyrant. Waver is the only 'good' guy. Good and evil are relative. Even Waver did morally questionable things. |
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| ^ Which is why I put the word good in quotations. Post number 1000. Now to spam my way to 3k-5k :) |
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HeisenDurden said: Botato said: MysticGoose said: Fai said: ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: >Implying that F/Z ending was depressing. But the good guy lost and shit.... >Implying F/0 had "good guys". Rider and Waver are the good guys. Rider is an evil, hypocritical tyrant. Waver is the only 'good' guy. Good and evil are relative. Even Waver did morally questionable things. Go away, Kiritsugu. |
| And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible. |
| Fate/zero had sad ending, but it was part of story. Nothing could be done about that. That is why I am hoping for a happy conclusive ending. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| For whatever reason, I didn't find the ending of FZ to be depressing at all. Unexpected? Yes. Sad? No. On the other hand, the ending of FSN made me want to puke buckets, cry tears of unfathomable sadness, and die. I don't know what that says about me, but there you have it. Therefore, my preference would be that the remake follows the Fate route but somehow adapts the Realta Nua epilogue ending, so that there can be happy resolution for Shirou and Saber. Call it non-canonical, fan service, or whatever you will, but it would make me incredibly happy. |
freeflowme said: For whatever reason, I didn't find the ending of FZ to be depressing at all. Unexpected? Yes. Sad? No. On the other hand, the ending of FSN made me want to puke buckets, cry tears of unfathomable sadness, and die. I don't know what that says about me, but there you have it. Therefore, my preference would be that the remake follows the Fate route but somehow adapts the Realta Nua epilogue ending, so that there can be happy resolution for Shirou and Saber. Call it non-canonical, fan service, or whatever you will, but it would make me incredibly happy. What it says about you is you like romance over seeing the good guy prevail. But honestly though, Maybe not as sad as F/SN's ending for you but you must have found at least something sad about it the ending... .__. |
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Botato said: What it says about you is you like romance over seeing the good guy prevail. But honestly though, Maybe not as sad as F/SN's ending for you but you must have found at least something sad about it the ending... .__. Hmm... |
ssjokg said: Hmm... you think it would've been worse had he not "intervened" so violently? |
Botato said: freeflowme said: For whatever reason, I didn't find the ending of FZ to be depressing at all. Unexpected? Yes. Sad? No. On the other hand, the ending of FSN made me want to puke buckets, cry tears of unfathomable sadness, and die. I don't know what that says about me, but there you have it. Therefore, my preference would be that the remake follows the Fate route but somehow adapts the Realta Nua epilogue ending, so that there can be happy resolution for Shirou and Saber. Call it non-canonical, fan service, or whatever you will, but it would make me incredibly happy. What it says about you is you like romance over seeing the good guy prevail. But honestly though, Maybe not as sad as F/SN's ending for you but you must have found at least something sad about it the ending... .__. F/Z definitely had a happy ending. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
freeflowme said: Botato said: What it says about you is you like romance over seeing the good guy prevail. But honestly though, Maybe not as sad as F/SN's ending for you but you must have found at least something sad about it the ending... .__. Hmm... ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: F/Z definitely had a happy ending. Not sure if sarcasm or serious :| But it's an interesting, and very cheerful, way of looking at it.. |
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freeflowme said: Didnt you see how Iri had ended up like?And the strongest Servants were not defeated yet. What is better? To end that suffering or let it continue with the possibility of Kiritsugu having to kill her himself(I dont remember if Iri would break apart like Ilya).Which is what he does every time he and Saber would defeat a Servant(see Caster and Lancer)ssjokg said: Hmm... you think it would've been worse had he not "intervened" so violently? |
Botato said: This final scene? EDIT: The saddest of Kiritsugu's moments for me were: |
freeflowmeJun 5, 2014 10:35 AM
freeflowme said: Botato said: This final scene? I see. |
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| Where exactly did you see the "hope" for Shirou? There is a guy out there that wants to kill him for that "hope". Maybe some hope for ILya,Sakura and maybe Rin but not for him. |
ssjokg said: Where exactly did you see the "hope" for Shirou? There is a guy out there that wants to kill him for that "hope". Maybe some hope for ILya,Sakura and maybe Rin but not for him. For someone that saw F/0 before, like he did, that scene is full of hope for Shirou. However, knowing what Shirou goes through makes the scene look ironic; it seems hopeful but you know he has some suffering ahead. |
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ssjokg said: Where exactly did you see the "hope" for Shirou? There is a guy out there that wants to kill him for that "hope". Maybe some hope for ILya,Sakura and maybe Rin but not for him. Botato said: ssjokg said: Where exactly did you see the "hope" for Shirou? There is a guy out there that wants to kill him for that "hope". Maybe some hope for ILya,Sakura and maybe Rin but not for him. For someone that saw F/0 before, like he did, that scene is full of hope for Shirou. However, knowing what Shirou goes through makes the scene look ironic; it seems hopeful but you know he has some suffering ahead. Even having seen FSN and knowing what he eventually goes through, it still strikes me as a hopefully scene simply because Shirou is so hopeful. He never loses his hopefulness, and even says, after everything is over, that he'll keep looking forward, not back. |
freeflowme said: ssjokg said: Where exactly did you see the "hope" for Shirou? There is a guy out there that wants to kill him for that "hope". Maybe some hope for ILya,Sakura and maybe Rin but not for him. Botato said: ssjokg said: Where exactly did you see the "hope" for Shirou? There is a guy out there that wants to kill him for that "hope". Maybe some hope for ILya,Sakura and maybe Rin but not for him. For someone that saw F/0 before, like he did, that scene is full of hope for Shirou. However, knowing what Shirou goes through makes the scene look ironic; it seems hopeful but you know he has some suffering ahead. Even having seen FSN and knowing what he eventually goes through, it still strikes me as a hopefully scene simply because Shirou is so hopeful. He never loses his hopefulness, and even says, after everything is over, that he'll keep looking forward, not back. Well thats is ONE Shirou...lets ask the one that tries to kill him about that. |
freeflowme said: ssjokg said: Where exactly did you see the "hope" for Shirou? There is a guy out there that wants to kill him for that "hope". Maybe some hope for ILya,Sakura and maybe Rin but not for him. Botato said: ssjokg said: Where exactly did you see the "hope" for Shirou? There is a guy out there that wants to kill him for that "hope". Maybe some hope for ILya,Sakura and maybe Rin but not for him. For someone that saw F/0 before, like he did, that scene is full of hope for Shirou. However, knowing what Shirou goes through makes the scene look ironic; it seems hopeful but you know he has some suffering ahead. Even having seen FSN and knowing what he eventually goes through, it still strikes me as a hopefully scene simply because Shirou is so hopeful. He never loses his hopefulness, and even says, after everything is over, that he'll keep looking forward, not back. Except that: 1. He is left a dead shell of human being, unable to fell 99% of emotions, unless he observes them in others (pretty much like Kirei) Just like Kirei, Shirou tries to emulate his father figure and ideals, but ultimately is searching for what it means for someone like him to still live. His ideals are not about hope - even if he knew they are pointless or hard to coincide with reality, its the only thing he has to go on, because its the only extension of EMIYA Kiritsugu that excuses EMIYA Shirou's void existence. 2 . His entire family and everyone he knew dead and he had to witness that happening all around him while he begged for death. 3. Kerry is still doomed to die so the only person that is left to care about ends up still dying 4. He is destined to look out for the Mage Association destroying him if they discover him. 5. How about the fact that F/0 litterally ends with the moment where Kerry DIES in front of Shirou? |
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Fai said: ] Except that: 1. He is left a dead shell of human being, unable to fell 99% of emotions, unless he observes them in others (pretty much like Kirei) Just like Kirei, Shirou tries to emulate his father figure and ideals, but ultimately is searching for what it means for someone like him to still live. His ideals are not about hope - even if he knew they are pointless or hard to coincide with reality, its the only thing he has to go on, because its the only extension of EMIYA Kiritsugu that excuses EMIYA Shirou's void existence. Are we talking about Shirou here? Perhaps he's portrayed far differently in the VNs, or perhaps I'm just a bad judge of human emotion (very possible), but he has friendships in which he demonstrates generosity, selflessness, warmth, and care, and in which he appears to be happy. He experiences fear, despite his overwhelming disregard for his own safety. And most poignantly, to me, he experiences love for Saber. That seems like a pretty good range of human emotion. 2 . His entire family and everyone he knew dead and he had to witness that happening all around him while he begged for death. Yeah, I'll give you that one, but he doesn't necessarily live like a person who's haunted by those events; rather they seem to fuel him. 3. Kerry is still doomed to die so the only person that is left to care about ends up still dying Sakura, Miss Fujimura; later Rin, Ilya, etc. 4. He is destined to look out for the Mage Association destroying him if they discover him. Fair, yet the type of challenge Shirou seems to like to rise to meet. 5. How about the fact that F/0 litterally ends with the moment where Kerry DIES in front of Shirou? This ending scene? I didn't conclude that's what was happening there, although I'm sure you know better than me. I thought Kiritsugu was literally saying he could be at peace now. When you learn what effects of Angra Mainya he was suffering, though, I guess that changes things a bit... |
freeflowme said: Are we talking about Shirou here? Perhaps he's portrayed far differently in the VNs, or perhaps I'm just a bad judge of human emotion (very possible), but he has friendships in which he demonstrates generosity, selflessness, warmth, and care, and in which he appears to be happy. He experiences fear, despite his overwhelming disregard for his own safety. And most poignantly, to me, he experiences love for Saber. That seems like a pretty good range of human emotion. care and selflessness are not "emotions". They are traits. And of course he is happy when he is selfless or does something for others, because that leads to others feeling happy, which allows him to emulate that too. The basic human emotions are fear, anger, sadness, joy, disgust, trust, anticipation, surprise. Fear? I don't even remember when he would be truly afraid of something. The only fears he seems to have is being unable to fulfill his ideals as his purpose. The only case of disgust that I remember is when he looked into the essence of the grail. He displays those emotions but only when it is connected to his life's purpose or to what others are experiencing around him. He is a "robot" going through life emulating what he sees in others(unlike Kirei who does that from despair, Shirou draws it from empathy). The emotions that he can comprehend start and stop at others around him. Because there's, literally, no "ME", left in him. Shirou as a "person" died in the fire, because he accepted the genuine fact of being dead. EMIYA Shirou is merely a sword existing to carry out the ideal. Yeah, I'll give you that one, but he doesn't necessarily live like a person who's haunted by those events; rather they seem to fuel him. I am pretty sure Dreaming the landscape of destruction as well as the greater grail(which is burned in his mind and stays as an image always) counts as being haunted. Sakura, Miss Fujimura; later Rin, Ilya, etc. Except that those are person HE cares for. He would not allow them to care or protect him because that defies the reason to exist. Fair, yet the type of challenge Shirou seems to like to rise to meet. Except that 99% of his thought about MA and what they could do is pretty much "well this sucks and can't get worse" I didn't conclude that's what was happening there, although I'm sure you know better than me. I thought Kiritsugu was literally saying he could be at peace now. When you learn what effects of Angra Mainya he was suffering, though, I guess that changes things a bit... At peace IS death. Shirou's resolution to resolve his father's ideal gives meaning to Kerry life and Kerry can finally stop suffering and die |
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Fai said: care and selflessness are not "emotions". They are traits. And of course he is happy when he is selfless or does something for others, because that leads to others feeling happy, which allows him to emulate that too. The basic human emotions are fear, anger, sadness, joy, disgust, trust, anticipation, surprise. Fear? I don't even remember when he would be truly afraid of something. The only fears he seems to have is being unable to fulfill his ideals as his purpose. The only case of disgust that I remember is when he looked into the essence of the grail. He displays those emotions but only when it is connected to his life's purpose or to what others are experiencing around him. He is a "robot" going through life emulating what he sees in others(unlike Kirei who does that from despair, Shirou draws it from empathy). The emotions that he can comprehend start and stop at others around him. Because there's, literally, no "ME", left in him. Shirou as a "person" died in the fire, because he accepted the genuine fact of being dead. EMIYA Shirou is merely a sword existing to carry out the ideal. That's actually a helpful distinction between traits and emotions. And I will be the first to admit that I am poor at sensing and even demonstrating emotion irl, so there's that. However, I would say that Shirou demonstrates fear: anger: disgust: trust: and so forth. Off the top of my head, I can't think of him experiencing sadness or joy, which are admittedly perhaps the two strongest of the emotions. In any case, the Shirou of the FSN TV adaptation struck me as a very real person who felt a range of human emotions. His "fault," if it can be called one, is what everyone was always harping on him for: caring for himself too little. But that's almost the defining characteristic of a hero, right? Now, granted this might not be the way the source material describes him, but it's the way he came across to me in the series. I am pretty sure Dreaming the landscape of destruction as well as the greater grail(which is burned in his mind and stays as an image always) counts as being haunted. Yeah, you're probably right on this one. Except that those are person HE cares for. He would not allow them to care or protect him because that defies the reason to exist. I always got the idea that he would not allow them to care for or protect him because he is truly and altruistically more concerned about their wellbeing than his own. Then again, I'm increasingly learning that my ideas: (a) are informed only by the DEEN adaptations and thus invalid; and (b) are skewed by my poor judgment of human character and/or emotion :p At peace IS death. Shirou's resolution to resolve his father's ideal gives meaning to Kerry life and Kerry can finally stop suffering and die Metaphorically, or as in the moment after the cameras stopped rolling he literally keeled over and died? |
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